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John Attack, welcome back to the Bitcoin Infinity show. Lovely to have you back.

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And warm welcome to your flyswatter too.

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How are you doing, Knut? I always want to say Knut and not Knut, but hey.

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Yeah, a lot of people do that.

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I know you'll forgive me.

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It's like Knott's Knut.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm the one with the non-silent K.

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We don't do very many silent letters in Scandinavian languages.

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We don't see the point of them.

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I don't think Finnish has any silent letters.

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It's Finnish in more explicit language then.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, John and I recently did a pod.

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You haven't done very many pods at all up until 2026, I believe.

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But if you go back to Bitcoin Infinity Show number 195, that's a couple of months back.

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John and I did one where we tell the story about my first book, Bitcoin Sovereignty to Mathematics, who looked like this back then.

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John helped me up with that.

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And John gives his story in that pod.

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So if you want to listen to the story about John's background and how he became a core developer and how he ceased to be a core developer and all of this, you should listen to that pod.

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Or I don't know if you have ceased to be a core developer.

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I don't think that's how it works.

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But anyway, in this, we're just going to dive into whatever we're going to talk about today.

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And at least a part of that is Hodlumlot's wonderful articles that have come out over the last couple of months too, I guess.

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So if I can share my screen here, let's see.

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Here we have a, yes, these three things here.

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Capture is the title of all the articles.

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There is one more coming, I know.

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So there will be four in total.

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The first one is called The Network.

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The next one, The Lever.

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And the third one that came out like a week or two ago is called The Merge.

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So you find them at citadel21.com.

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So make sure you check them out and read them.

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Regardless of what side of this debate you're on,

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these reads are very interesting and they're based on real events but you were in the middle

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of all these debacles john so so you have maybe a slightly different perspective than hodl or not

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and yeah what are your what are your thoughts on his articles let's let's start there shall we

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yeah that sounds good i brought some props while you were talking these are bananas right from the

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land here. They're small and they're super good. They're so sweet. Homegrown bananas and a bullshit

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meter. And so we can use this to check some claims as to how much bullshit is in them.

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I actually have, I think, a finely attuned internal bullshit reader detector. I'm probably the oldest

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person in Bitcoin Core, easily. So I don't really need this, but this can be fun sometimes as a prop

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for reading bullshit, levels of bullshit.

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So the articles, well, I've actually sent a lot of corrections

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and modification proposals to over the past months.

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Like anything that seemed to me incorrect or weak,

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I actually sent him, I tried to help him so that at least factually

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they were not easily attackable.

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There were some things that I did not still understand

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about the merge article until after it was published.

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For instance, I had an exchange on Twitter where I asked if anybody knew why the op return

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change had not, why it's history as Clementine Bridge had not been updated for the op return

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uncapping, why they had stayed with the method that they outlined in their white paper of

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using a small 83-byte operaturn plus two unspendable, untrunable taproot outputs.

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And I had thought that they had not updated, but it turns out that they,

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and I learned thanks to Twitter, that they recently had.

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And it shows a weakness of AI because I actually tried to find out using AI just to verify it.

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And AI consistently said, nope, nope, they never updated.

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but in fact Twitter had tipped to Lauren MT in France and then to Ikram Bal himself who confirmed

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directly from Citria that they did begin to update. It was merged into a testing branch but

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it is not yet on mainnet and my main interest curiosity out of personal curiosity was what

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were the criteria that Citria used to determine if they should upgrade and when and that was a

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factual part of the last article that I did not know until after it was published.

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And it got me thinking, I was curious, hey, everyone says that Citraea was the justification.

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The example, oh no, Citraea is using unfunable outputs.

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Well, that didn't make sense to me. Then why didn't they upgrade?

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Financially, it probably didn't change a lot for them. So yes, there was some engineering

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effort required to upgrade. The main hesitation I could see Satria having, and that was my

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working progress hypothesis, was that they had to be absolutely sure that it would be relayed

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in mind, those transactions would be relayed in mind into a block within the time window

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for the watchtower challenge. And that window was a week or two weeks, I don't recall off the top of

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my head, but they had to be absolutely sure that those would get in and enough of the network had

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to be relaying and mining the core V30 and onwards for that to work.

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That was my hypothesis, and I think that was pretty much confirmed by Ekrem.

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So that was something that I learned after the article came out, which was good.

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Yeah, he wrote, we ran some experiments to see how quickly these transactions get mined,

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Ekrem Val, and also looked at the total hash rate currently mining large op returns.

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The Watchtower transaction is time critical.

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The window for submitting it is seven days, so a week.

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And I replied to him, I appreciated him confirming that the main criterion was sufficiently reliably mined in the time window.

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So that was interesting to me because a main part of the article in my eyes was, well, why didn't Citroën update?

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And if not, if they did or did not, why?

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And at least now, thanks to that article coming out, I became curious and dove into that and learned about that.

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about that because it seemed very odd to me that Citria would say in their white paper,

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we didn't use op returns because we couldn't due to the limit. And then if they didn't update,

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I wanted to know why. And so at least now I have my answer. I found that interesting.

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Now, those articles, did you have some other thing you want to say about that, Knut?

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Yeah, no, I find it interesting too that they didn't update right. Like, it's very strange to

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me that in the first place that that whole thing was because as i understand it they only needed

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this operate this bigger op return like twice a year or something maybe i'm right they weren't

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going to use it hardly very often exactly yeah so it was it was it was odd to make such a big deal

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out of it oh no someone's gonna every once in a blue moon used yeah and they had to be sure they

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their mind on time. So I find I find a bit odd. Overall, my position is neither that of core nor

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that of nots or I do believe the core developers dislike spam. Maybe the way so the way Gloria in

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some extracts from her podcast brought it out did look not very good for core or herself, I would

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argue. But I think that most of the core devs I am in contact with very much dislike the spam as

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well. The problem to me isn't that core is technically wrong. It's that, first of all,

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with the original documentation change, you could have done it two ways. You could have said,

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yes, they did the easier to merge, less controversial way, which makes complete

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sense to me as a core developer. If the code and the documentation diverge, you fix the

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documentation first That makes sense to me What was interesting was the snowball effect of what built on top of that But I don think Marco did anything wrong with that documentation update And I said that to Hobonaut So the problem is that people see changes coming out of CORE that they don understand but they don know why And that was the whole thesis behind my Plan B

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talk, which probably angered some people in CORE. But the idea was for me to clear up questions in

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the outer community as to why CORE was doing these things because the outer community didn't

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understand them. And so they would lead to, oh, well, it's financial corruption by VCs and grant

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money and this and that. And I have not seen that. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I've never

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been. There is some pressure to perform. Your grant money can be cut. And I think that personal

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relationships formed at these conferences and meetups around the world, which I don't attend

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very much. I think they weigh a lot. They come a lot into the equation. Like someone maybe makes

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friends with Casey Rotomar and, oh, this guy is really nice or he's really good looking or whatever.

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or he's quite charming.

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I like this guy.

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He's a good fellow.

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I haven't met him.

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I'm just saying this is the kind of thing

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I think I see happening.

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Or I met this guy

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and he's actually really good

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and we should support him.

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And it's actually just based

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on personal friendships

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that are formed first.

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And then when the ordinal's bid draft

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gets refused,

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these sort of people say,

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oh, it's a shame.

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I was really, you know,

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Casey didn't deserve that.

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And so personal relationships

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come into play,

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maybe much more than

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any sort of financial corruption

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apart from what you need to do to be funded

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or get a job in the Bitcoin industry as a developer.

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There's human nature behind all of this.

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Now, that doesn't mean that,

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I mean, I personally believe that Core

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has brought most of this on itself,

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but not because the change itself

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was technically incorrect,

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but for other reasons,

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which I've tried to portray in podcasts

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since that time,

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be one with you and one with Bob Burnett

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and in my talk to try to explain

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what really did change

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to help people understand the context, because you can't argue with facts against someone's

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position that was reached emotionally. And if you have a cultural difference in values,

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a chasm that gradually widened between, say, the core developers and the outer community,

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politically, during COVID, during the DEI and woke wave that swept through coming from the U.S.

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to outward, during lots of things like the radical shift from Trump to Biden politically,

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and then back to Trump, the increasing Americanization of Bitcoin funding and development and even

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maintainerships. So there's all these things that combine to, in my opinion, create a wider

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chasm between the outer community and Bitcoin core. And I saw this being here in El Salvador.

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I see a lot of the outer community coming here and visiting and meeting them. And I hear what they

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have to say about what they think is going on. And so I understand both sides, the taco plebs or

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whatever they're called, or the maximalists, or just the regular Bitcoin, or, you know, hardcore

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people, and the developer community. And these are very different people. And culturally, it's just

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has widened over the last half decade, since 2018, and the calls for woke DEI initiatives in the

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developer community, coming from certain people. And so this whole cultural thing made it that there

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was an increasing distrust, which I don't think Kor understood. And so they reckoned all they had

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to do was argue technically. And from their technically superior knowledge, it just,

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they footgunned themselves by coming off as condescending, snarking, sneering, snobby.

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The ivory tower classic syndrome of someone who technically works on it all day and is very

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familiar deeply with everything. But what they didn't understand is they were arguing against

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people who'd arrived at their position of distrust long before the operator in position. And the

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operator in position changed was the drop too many or the straw that brought the proverbial camel's

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back. And if I talk about this with Luke and Mechanic and they disagree, they say, no, the

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central issue is the spam. I said, yes, we all hate the spam, more or less. And I found it personally

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deeply depressing when the ordinals and inscriptions things were hitting the blockchain and causing

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the thesis spike in early 2023, the first half of the year. And it was an awful feeling because I

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felt helpless. Even as a core developer, I felt helpless to do anything to stop this. But all this

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bleed up of the past half decade and more, people say it started in the last two years.

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Kvalonov wrote that maybe. It's actually been coming since seven years, since the entire...

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I joined working on Bitcoin for development in early 2019.

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The cultural revolution was already starting the year before with the call for DEI.

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I have been watching core development very closely since 2014, 2015, when Vladimir Van der Land,

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lead maintainer for nearly a decade of Bitcoin Core, followed me for some inexplicable reason to me on Twitter.

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And I started thinking, wow, wow, let me look into this person and what they're doing.

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Oh, I love their leadership style.

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I love their humble, servant-oriented, but wise yet strong fashion of leading the project.

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It was unlike any other.

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I had had extensive open-source experience before, and I had always often disliked the

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leadership style of the leaders of the project.

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And here was Vladimir, who was completely different.

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And it was refreshing and an inspiration to me, and it still is today, even if he is no

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longer, or she now, is no longer lead maintainer, stepped down three years ago, and there was

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a sort of revolution in the palace of sorts. Kind of like when Dumbledore died in Harry Potter,

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things changed and they didn't change in a way that helped me continue contributing and made it

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very difficult. But all this was a lead up, a cultural, you know, the politics, the COVID-ism,

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you know, all the colleagues, most of the colleagues went full blown into the COVID-ism.

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you had to be tested and and to to you had to be up to date to visit the offices or to attend the

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meetups and if you weren't up to date maybe you could attend the meet the private meetup but if

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you had done the test that morning i've never stuck a column swab into my brain yet now that

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is probably a terrible self-incrimination in the eyes of most of my colleagues but i am quite proud

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never have taken to have taken the jabs and quite proud never have to have done the swabs into the

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brain through my nose. I didn't believe that. I thought the whole thing was as it is coming out

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now. It was labeled by core leaders as a conspiracy theory. And it turns out that all the conspiracy

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theorists, quote unquote, were correct. And I felt that I made the right choices. And most of my

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colleagues went down the coitus path. And yeah, it's all this lead up. When core doesn't understand

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why our community has all this almost radicalization against core. That's what it's coming from for me.

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It's cultural. It's a cultural difference in values and not about I am four against spam. It's deeper

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than that. And you cannot overcome that with arguing over logic, especially if you argue in

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a condescending way. We have core developers who you almost want to wonder if they aren't part of

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some sort of covert marketing team for knots.

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I mean, their communication over the past year

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has really, in my opinion,

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damaged Bitcoin Core's public image

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and coming from within.

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And they mean well.

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I'm quite certain they're not on the payroll

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of someone who's asking them to develop knots.

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But, you know, and even Core today,

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the Havlonauts' latest article

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referred to a thread on Bitcoin meta

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that came out only about three weeks ago,

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started by Jameson Lopp,

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about banning people for actions outside the repository.

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And it's just another attack on Luke.

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And Luke's been repeatedly attacked over the years

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by people in core who wanted him removed,

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forcibly removed as maintainer, as the OG BIPs editor.

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They wanted him banned from the repo now

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in the latest thread by Lott.

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I argue that people's contributions

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shouldn't depend on what they do outside the repository.

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I mean, obviously something like death threats aside,

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that would be reason not to, okay, that's fair reason for banning someone if they're doing threats

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and so on. But if they're just doing what Luke does, should they be banned from within Bitcoin

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Core as long as they behave within Bitcoin Core is the question. I wrote that it should be about

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merit, as always. I mean, this is supposed to be contributions to be judged on their merit.

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I feel the contributions are they are of course very strongly judged on non things like who is the author Yes also capital does matter a great deal in a project like Bitcoin Core Your review carries much more weight

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If you have shown over the years a lot of solid review and experienced good review and contributions,

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that gives you much more credibility and weight than someone who just rolls up that no one knows.

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So there is an inherent importance to who.

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But I think that the author of the pull request of a proposed change has become much too important.

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I think it's fair for it to be important in reviewing.

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But when you propose a change, if you're on the list of people that other people don't really like,

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your pull request, you may as well close it and wait for someone friendlier to the cohort or the regime,

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take it up and propose it again.

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and then it has much more chance because it's extremely or too important whose name is on the

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change proposed into Bitcoin court. And so we actually saw Gregory Maxwell come out and reply

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to me that my endorsement of meritocracy was borderline, was naive to the point of being harmful.

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Literally coming out against meritocracy in order to justify banning Luke. And, you know,

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and that's an interesting one because I think, first of all, I believe strongly that you need

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to give people the benefit of the doubt. When in doubt, assume the most charitable interpretation

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of their writing. And so when I say that merit is what should matter, I'm talking global merit.

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I'm not talking about some pseudo-specific narrow merit that can be faked with AI or something. I'm

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talking about merit in general, including your prior contributions, who you are, the weight you

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carry on a project or don't carry in people's minds. And so that matters too. And I thought

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It was strange that Gregory Maxwell just sort of took a specific domain of merit and raised it up as a sort of maybe straw man in order to punch down on it and say, you know, that's naive to the point of being harmful.

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So all that to justify the viewpoint that Luke should be banned, which Matt Corral, as usual, jumped in and also supported.

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Back in the day, John Newberry and David Harding were in support of removing Luke against his will as BIPT main editor, which also is maintainer and moderator.

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BIPT editors also moderate and maintain.

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They have pretty wide responsibilities.

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So basically, over the years, it's the same group of friends who don't like Luke.

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Now, Luke is exasperating.

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Luke can drive you batty.

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I understand that.

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I've experienced those emotions myself at times, five, six years ago, even last year.

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Luke can do things that are unpredictable to me.

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But that doesn't mean I don't like him as a person.

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I actually consider him a friend.

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In a way, I've only met him a few times in life and discussed things with him.

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We talk regularly directly via chat.

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But, you know, just because he's unpredictable, perhaps to me, or can be maddeningly exasperating, doesn't mean that I don't think those are grounds for banning him from Bitcoin Core, as long as he's providing value.

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And he's still reviewing and he's still proposing what, to his mind, are important things to contribute.

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Some are accepted, some don't make it.

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I think that's just another example of the ongoing sort of anti-Luke sentiment and we should ban him.

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I don't think that helps core and if it's Bitcoin core were to ban Luke from the Bitcoin core

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repository which would mean he wouldn't be able to review he wouldn't be able to submit pull request

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I believe then I think there would just be another acting by Bitcoin core that hurts its own it hurts

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itself in its own image and they don't seem to see that and maybe I'm wrong but I think that all

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All those things hurt CORE more than they help.

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Yeah.

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Sorry, that was a long, long comment.

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It's great.

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It's great to hear all of it.

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I mean, yeah, I think it would be disastrous for them to ban Luke.

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I mean, and this whole anti-Lukeism, Luke is the way he is,

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but he's also single-handedly saved Bitcoin a handful of times.

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People have good and bad strengths and weaknesses.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and some view it as Luke is saving Bitcoin once again here with Notts and BIP110.

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BIP110 is not written by Luke, though, but by Dathomom.

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I reacted to one thing you said about...

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Well, it came from Luke originally.

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I don't think that's a secret.

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The commits were by Luke.

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The original draft was, I'm quite certain, drafted by Luke.

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And then Datum, whoever it is, because it's a pseudonym, took over being champion of it.

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And he's rewritten, modified, edited.

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But the base was Luke.

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And I actually did advise Luke.

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I don't think I'm spilling some secret.

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And I think it's fine for Luke to do it and pass the baton on.

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But I did advise Luke.

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Personally, I told Luke that I thought it would be better for him to just put his name on it if it was by him.

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but he thought it was better this way.

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Maybe a sort of shell and fry sort of thing.

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I don't know.

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Yeah, back to your rant there.

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I picked up one thing that I reacted to

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and this changing of the documentation.

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I have a slightly different point of view there

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because you say that

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Cord changed documentation

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because of scientific evidence

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of how the protocol was being used.

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So it's natural to change documentation.

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No, no. It was just that someone realized that the documentation just was incorrect as to what the configuration option actually was doing.

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But based on what? Based on behavior or based on empirical evidence or what?

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Well, I mean, back then, the change was only for op return.

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And so the definition was narrowed in a way that reflected what the code itself had not changed since, I believe, had not changed since the pull requests in 2014 that came out in Bitcoin, in their Bitcoin release, Bitcoin Core release in early 2015.

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I could be wrong, but I don't think the code itself had changed.

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At least its behavior had not changed.

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And so the documentation was really catching up to the fact that for seven or eight years, no one had noticed the discrepancy.

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Core is said to have this most amazing review process, but to be honest, a lot gets past review.

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It's definitely very human and very foul.

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So the thing I think the monetary maxis, if you will, reacted to with changing the documentation

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was that changes to the documentation should not be based on, they should be, if made at all,

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they should be based on principles.

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And I think this is like at the core of the problem, pun intended.

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Should Bitcoin be designed from first principles

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or should Bitcoin be designed from empirical evidence

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of what people actually do with it?

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And I think this is the big thing.

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Right. The question is,

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did the config option behavior have been changed

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instead of the documentation,

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which would have been a harder change to argue for

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because you're actually changing the behavior

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of what is an eight-year-old config option

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that users are expecting to do something,

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and you actually would be widening its scope

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in order to cover more spam.

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Now, I appreciate that you can very well argue

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for the code being updated

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to match the intended first principle,

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but as a core developer,

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I see completely why Marco chose

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to update the documentation

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because changing the behavior of the code itself

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is a wider change.

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It's more controversial in any case.

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At the time, there was already some initial spam

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taking place with multisig, bare multisig.

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And a config option was created that same year, 2014,

348
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called permit bare multisig,

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which defaulted, I believe, to true,

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but you could set, it allowed users to turn off

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allowing it permit bare multisig

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so that that vector of spam could be

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controlled by the user with a config option.

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At the time, there was already spam that was not

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opportunity related via that vector.

356
00:25:54,512 --> 00:26:10,668
With pay to script hash that was also possible but not yet perhaps not being widely used It was starting to be with open timestamps like Peter Todd and there was the Eternal Wall I mean there was originally some other spam

357
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besides op-return back then.

358
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So I can see why.

359
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I think the problem is not

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that Marco did something wrong.

361
00:26:18,208 --> 00:26:19,688
What Marco did was actually quite logical.

362
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The problem is that it was a snowball effect.

363
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The problem in the eyes of Hoblonaut

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is that it's the process that HODL...

365
00:26:28,588 --> 00:26:30,708
I think HODLNOT isn't actually attacking.

366
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And at the end of the day, it's not really a technical issue

367
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so much as the whole how the process happened.

368
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HODLNOT did think that Marco and H.A. Towns

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were financially perhaps influenced by their common funder.

370
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I don't believe that to be the case

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because I have never personally seen a grant funder

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influence me directly.

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But I can see why, because the outer community is trying to understand, I can see why they would reach for that, look for that possibility and verify and investigate it.

374
00:27:05,668 --> 00:27:10,268
I don't think it was actually the case that Paradigm influenced, Marco and AJ.

375
00:27:11,068 --> 00:27:13,748
Well, if I may interrupt you.

376
00:27:13,748 --> 00:27:15,168
That's my personal opinion. I have no proof either way.

377
00:27:16,008 --> 00:27:20,548
You may be more, first of all, you may be more untouchable than many of the others.

378
00:27:20,548 --> 00:27:35,268
And also, I have an example of you changing your behavior because of the allure of a grant when you pulled out of my book project because you thought that would adventure your chances of getting that grant.

379
00:27:35,668 --> 00:27:38,548
So there is like not, I mean, it's not direct.

380
00:27:38,548 --> 00:27:40,288
I had no grant at all.

381
00:27:40,988 --> 00:27:44,388
No, no, but you were planning to apply for some.

382
00:27:44,488 --> 00:27:49,068
I mean, I should let you tell the story and I'm not accusing you of anything here.

383
00:27:49,068 --> 00:27:57,048
I'm just saying that even the smallest change in an economic incentive will change the person's behavior to some extent.

384
00:27:57,368 --> 00:27:58,668
So what do you say to that?

385
00:27:59,508 --> 00:28:01,428
No, more than to some extent.

386
00:28:02,508 --> 00:28:07,688
I waited until early this year to even discuss, start saying what I thought.

387
00:28:09,688 --> 00:28:13,048
Because I was self-fenstering for the past seven years.

388
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Because I was afraid for my funding.

389
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And maybe I was going to be defunded.

390
00:28:17,308 --> 00:28:18,848
But I did lose.

391
00:28:18,848 --> 00:28:23,308
My grant funding was not renewed was viral.

392
00:28:23,308 --> 00:28:28,268
And then though after four years, they gave a rationale that didn't hold up.

393
00:28:28,268 --> 00:28:31,508
So I was disappointed by the reason they gave it because I knew it was nonsense.

394
00:28:31,508 --> 00:28:35,388
But they gave me a rationale that I knew was nonsense.

395
00:28:35,388 --> 00:28:36,388
They stopped my funding.

396
00:28:36,388 --> 00:28:39,448
Maelstrom didn't renew in favor of another developer.

397
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And so I don't know if I'll be funded much longer.

398
00:28:42,048 --> 00:28:46,288
There was an initiative from Core, two of the leading core.

399
00:28:46,288 --> 00:28:50,608
maintainer and one leading developer went to the board of open sass and talked to them about me

400
00:28:50,608 --> 00:28:55,128
behind my back yeah there are there is dirty stuff going on with funding for sure and i i always was

401
00:28:55,128 --> 00:29:00,568
afraid even back in 2019 with you i was afraid that it would hurt my chances of even finding

402
00:29:00,568 --> 00:29:07,348
funding and it was hard enough as it is it took me 14 13 14 months of unpaid work on bitcoin core

403
00:29:07,348 --> 00:29:14,168
to actually start being funded and and at about half the rate of say some of the other arrivals

404
00:29:14,168 --> 00:29:18,608
at that time who were, I was, I started at 80 grand for the first year and other people were

405
00:29:18,608 --> 00:29:25,008
getting 150, the favorites from the same residency that I attended. And I had probably shown more

406
00:29:25,008 --> 00:29:30,128
proof of work than most of the residency combined in Bitcoin Core, at least well before having gotten

407
00:29:30,128 --> 00:29:35,648
my funding. But you know, life isn't fair, definitely not fair, but yes, you are right.

408
00:29:35,648 --> 00:29:41,328
I was afraid that would hurt my chance for funding if I came out as a co, as a co-editor

409
00:29:41,328 --> 00:29:48,708
helper of a book that was based at a time when wokeism was clearly infiltrating the community

410
00:29:48,708 --> 00:29:55,228
that I was trying to find funding it there absolutely I I absolutely love this story and

411
00:29:55,228 --> 00:30:01,748
I like I I wear this as like the fact that that is the case like it's it's it's exhilarating to

412
00:30:01,748 --> 00:30:07,168
me in a way because because it points it points to everything wrong because I think everyone in

413
00:30:07,168 --> 00:30:12,648
the monetary maxis camp or i can't speak for everyone but i think this is a taco plebs or

414
00:30:12,648 --> 00:30:18,708
whatever you call them before like the plebs in general i think this is their thinking around this

415
00:30:18,708 --> 00:30:25,068
if if you can if you are because you're jon attack you're one of the most the highest integrity

416
00:30:25,068 --> 00:30:32,108
bitcoin core people i've ever met like if not the highest integrity one and and if you're self

417
00:30:32,108 --> 00:30:38,268
censoring what the hell do you think the others are doing like because they would be self-censoring

418
00:30:38,268 --> 00:30:44,428
even more than you would to the point where where where this woke creep or whatever you call it

419
00:30:44,428 --> 00:30:51,668
corrupts everything and all of a sudden they base the decisions on the behavior of the current users

420
00:30:51,668 --> 00:30:57,288
of the network instead of the first principles that bitcoin is money other use cases do not add

421
00:30:57,288 --> 00:31:02,548
value they leak value from the monetary use case they shouldn't be there we should do everything in

422
00:31:02,548 --> 00:31:08,188
our power to stop other use cases that is not the case instead they you know have dinners with citria

423
00:31:08,188 --> 00:31:15,568
people and and think that these baps and and whatever they're called and brc20 tokens and

424
00:31:15,568 --> 00:31:21,708
monkey jpegs and dick butts are are adding value somehow to bitcoin when it's from an economic

425
00:31:21,708 --> 00:31:27,688
perspective super clear that they don't money ought to be money and as little else as possible

426
00:31:27,688 --> 00:31:34,248
yeah yeah that's that's my five sets yeah i mean yes

427
00:31:34,248 --> 00:31:42,548
i started off when i wanted to when i decided i was going to launch myself into working on

428
00:31:42,548 --> 00:31:48,288
bitcoin core what i started off by was approaching the project from a social group processes angle

429
00:31:48,288 --> 00:31:54,948
my first work the first thing I did was invest a lot of time in observing who was who how they

430
00:31:54,948 --> 00:32:00,208
interacted what they liked and what they did not like I tried to analyze and understand the group

431
00:32:00,208 --> 00:32:06,608
social processes in core and it turned out that my initial intuition that these group social

432
00:32:06,608 --> 00:32:12,188
processes were extremely important to how things are getting done in core that initial intuition

433
00:32:12,188 --> 00:32:18,268
turned out to be completely 100 on target it's it's the key and I when I saw the direction that

434
00:32:18,268 --> 00:32:24,508
the core was that Bitcoin core, a certain, let's say, intolerant minority in Bitcoin core was

435
00:32:24,508 --> 00:32:30,068
heading with the world, the DEI, the COVID-ism. Actually, that was not a minority. I was the 80,

436
00:32:30,168 --> 00:32:35,588
85% of my colleagues went full into the COVID-isms. You know, where's your mask? Did you test this

437
00:32:35,588 --> 00:32:42,088
morning? Why didn't you get jabbed and boosted? What's the matter with you? You know, and you know,

438
00:32:42,168 --> 00:32:47,608
on that Bitcoin meta thread that we referred to, the most interesting part of that thread to me,

439
00:32:47,608 --> 00:32:54,648
perhaps was not the typical Gregory Maxwell and then Matt Corral, Blue Matt, agreeing with

440
00:32:54,648 --> 00:33:00,488
G-Max that meritocracy was naive to the point of being harmful or whatever. It was Matthew Zipkin

441
00:33:00,488 --> 00:33:06,188
who I like. Matthew, like me, we both have a past in music, right? We've been in bands. We've done

442
00:33:06,188 --> 00:33:11,728
sound engineering. Matthew Zipkin is in New York and he's now at Chaincode. And it took him a long

443
00:33:11,728 --> 00:33:16,948
time to get into Chaincode. I think he got us put in the door by doing sound engineering for

444
00:33:16,948 --> 00:33:21,148
for ChainCodeLabs podcasts like five, six years ago.

445
00:33:21,268 --> 00:33:22,348
And one thing led to another,

446
00:33:22,528 --> 00:33:25,668
and he had come from another crypto protocol.

447
00:33:25,828 --> 00:33:26,568
I can't remember the name of it.

448
00:33:27,048 --> 00:33:28,948
And so he became an engineer.

449
00:33:29,068 --> 00:33:30,968
And now he's actually one of the two moderators

450
00:33:30,968 --> 00:33:33,208
for Bitcoin Core of doing the moderation

451
00:33:33,208 --> 00:33:34,968
on the repository on GitHub.

452
00:33:35,708 --> 00:33:38,308
And Matthew Zipkin wrote, he's a good guy.

453
00:33:38,408 --> 00:33:39,968
And I think that he and Will Clark,

454
00:33:39,968 --> 00:33:43,208
the two moderators, are good people doing a good job

455
00:33:43,208 --> 00:33:46,148
who are stuck in a difficult position

456
00:33:46,148 --> 00:33:52,408
between some of the angry plebs and those above them in the hierarchy,

457
00:33:52,588 --> 00:33:55,528
and Bitcoin Core is indeed very hierarchical, much more than I wish it would be,

458
00:33:55,628 --> 00:34:03,908
who want them to enforce things and keep the peace and make life easier for the contributors and the maintainers.

459
00:34:03,908 --> 00:34:07,608
So Matthew Zipkin, that background having been given, said,

460
00:34:08,068 --> 00:34:12,488
the real question is maybe how does the project improve its own public relations?

461
00:34:14,248 --> 00:34:15,828
And that is the key question.

462
00:34:15,828 --> 00:34:20,828
And the only problem is that, to me, the answer is quite clear,

463
00:34:20,828 --> 00:34:24,828
but most in Bitcoin, Chrome won't accept the answer.

464
00:34:24,828 --> 00:34:27,628
And so it's easier and human, very human,

465
00:34:27,628 --> 00:34:29,688
to shoot the messengers and blame the critics.

466
00:34:29,688 --> 00:34:31,588
You know, whether the critic is a messenger,

467
00:34:31,588 --> 00:34:33,028
whether the critic is HODL or not,

468
00:34:33,028 --> 00:34:37,028
or whether the messenger is myself, or, you know.

469
00:34:39,568 --> 00:34:43,308
And HODL or not is a tough one for them because he was,

470
00:34:43,344 --> 00:34:48,824
was the leading integrity person standing up speaking the truth against Craig Wright,

471
00:34:49,564 --> 00:34:50,084
fake Toshi.

472
00:34:50,344 --> 00:34:58,044
And his life was nearly destroyed for leading that integrity, honesty, first approach against

473
00:34:58,044 --> 00:35:01,184
Craig Wright, who tried to destroy him with lawfare.

474
00:35:01,184 --> 00:35:03,704
And he was helped and he was a hero.

475
00:35:04,344 --> 00:35:06,324
And his integrity is well known.

476
00:35:06,524 --> 00:35:13,144
And so I think it's a very difficult thing for Bitcoin core proponents like Adam Back

477
00:35:13,144 --> 00:35:16,364
to go after him because he's a hero

478
00:35:16,364 --> 00:35:19,264
and his integrity is clearly not in question.

479
00:35:19,264 --> 00:35:23,224
And I don't understand actually Adam Back's transformation.

480
00:35:23,464 --> 00:35:25,644
It's like he's part of the Knotts marketing team.

481
00:35:26,524 --> 00:35:30,224
I've never seen in eight years of watching,

482
00:35:30,304 --> 00:35:32,104
more than a decade of watching Bitcoin Core,

483
00:35:32,244 --> 00:35:35,344
I've never seen Adam Back do a pull request,

484
00:35:35,564 --> 00:35:38,644
make a commit or do any review on Bitcoin Core.

485
00:35:39,444 --> 00:35:41,004
He's a businessman now.

486
00:35:41,004 --> 00:35:47,844
I haven't seen him, but he's so attached to Bitcoin Core in a way for someone who I have never seen participate directly.

487
00:35:48,684 --> 00:35:52,224
So, you know, he's a businessman, but I don't think he's helping.

488
00:35:52,524 --> 00:35:55,924
And whoever it is doing the tweeting for him isn't helping.

489
00:35:58,424 --> 00:36:03,924
It all comes back to Adam should fire his intern.

490
00:36:04,824 --> 00:36:06,184
Yeah, it makes no sense.

491
00:36:06,184 --> 00:36:11,584
And he didn't begin following me until last year when, early this year, when I started

492
00:36:11,584 --> 00:36:13,024
presenting, talking about it.

493
00:36:13,124 --> 00:36:14,064
I don't think he's blocked me.

494
00:36:14,104 --> 00:36:15,004
I think he still follows me.

495
00:36:15,064 --> 00:36:15,944
I don't follow him back.

496
00:36:16,144 --> 00:36:19,544
But the idea in core is that the problem is misinformation.

497
00:36:20,304 --> 00:36:25,704
It's like, it's, you know, like during COVID when people like me were being denounced as

498
00:36:25,704 --> 00:36:30,804
dangerous and, you know, people were spreading misinformation because they didn't want to

499
00:36:30,804 --> 00:36:35,804
mask, but they didn't want to accept the mRNA experimental vaccines, if they can even be

500
00:36:35,804 --> 00:36:40,344
called vaccines misinformation isn't the root here and this just looks bad it's the people

501
00:36:40,344 --> 00:36:45,264
outside of bitcoin core are trying to understand what and why and are looking for answers yeah it

502
00:36:45,264 --> 00:36:51,784
sounds suspiciously like something the government would say like it's all it's all fake news and

503
00:36:51,784 --> 00:36:58,904
trust the trusted sources and don't listen to anything else anything outside yeah don't do

504
00:36:58,904 --> 00:37:04,504
your own research anything outside of the overtone window yeah that just literally tweeted i couldn't

505
00:37:04,504 --> 00:37:06,224
believe you posted when you said Bitcoin

506
00:37:06,224 --> 00:37:08,464
development doesn't need

507
00:37:08,464 --> 00:37:10,324
your help. I'm not a reply guy.

508
00:37:11,864 --> 00:37:12,464
But man, I

509
00:37:12,464 --> 00:37:13,344
was tempted because

510
00:37:13,344 --> 00:37:16,204
we say over and over

511
00:37:16,204 --> 00:37:17,984
that the bottleneck in Bitcoin

512
00:37:17,984 --> 00:37:20,084
development, in protocol,

513
00:37:20,264 --> 00:37:21,704
Bitcoin protocol development especially,

514
00:37:22,504 --> 00:37:24,144
is lack of experience review.

515
00:37:24,704 --> 00:37:26,164
It's lack of developers,

516
00:37:26,744 --> 00:37:28,384
good developers, seasoned

517
00:37:28,384 --> 00:37:30,304
developers doing seasoned experience

518
00:37:30,304 --> 00:37:32,044
review and testing with

519
00:37:32,044 --> 00:37:33,264
long, long

520
00:37:34,504 --> 00:37:40,224
experience with the code base, bringing to bear that cumulative experience of the code base onto

521
00:37:40,224 --> 00:37:47,724
their review. We need these people. We need people to come in. We need developers. We're not,

522
00:37:49,004 --> 00:37:53,764
we do not have an oversupply of experienced eyes on the code. We really do not. And that's

523
00:37:53,764 --> 00:37:58,984
obvious to anyone working and everyone says it. The number one constraint is review.

524
00:37:59,624 --> 00:38:03,844
To move things forward and to take care and more eyes on code means more bugs fixed.

525
00:38:04,504 --> 00:38:07,664
and to come in and say, we don't need your help,

526
00:38:07,844 --> 00:38:10,324
where are we going to get these reviewers?

527
00:38:10,624 --> 00:38:12,144
I don't know. It just blows my mind.

528
00:38:12,484 --> 00:38:13,944
It's like, we need people so badly,

529
00:38:14,184 --> 00:38:16,164
but just not you because you're not like us.

530
00:38:17,104 --> 00:38:19,344
It comes back to the problem of selection criteria.

531
00:38:21,904 --> 00:38:22,304
Yeah.

532
00:38:23,224 --> 00:38:27,004
So if they only want the young ones in New York City

533
00:38:27,004 --> 00:38:30,064
who are willing to move from wherever they live to New York City

534
00:38:30,064 --> 00:38:33,804
or to Amsterdam or to London or to San Francisco

535
00:38:33,804 --> 00:38:36,284
or to Boston or maybe to Amsterdam.

536
00:38:37,064 --> 00:38:39,844
You know, that is a self-selection process.

537
00:38:40,284 --> 00:38:42,344
If we need people who need to agree,

538
00:38:43,744 --> 00:38:46,024
that is a self-selection process.

539
00:38:46,284 --> 00:38:49,244
If we want developers who want to work in person in an office

540
00:38:49,244 --> 00:38:51,384
and hang out in that office and live in the big city,

541
00:38:51,664 --> 00:38:53,384
because they're only in big cities as far as I know,

542
00:38:53,384 --> 00:38:54,924
that is a selection criteria.

543
00:38:55,084 --> 00:38:57,324
You're obviously excluding the guy who's got three kids

544
00:38:57,324 --> 00:39:00,084
who's living far away and isn't going to up and move to Manhattan.

545
00:39:00,244 --> 00:39:03,544
The guy with 20 years of experience in open source,

546
00:39:03,784 --> 00:39:05,244
You're making life harder for them.

547
00:39:05,364 --> 00:39:07,804
Now, these people do exist in Bitcoin Core.

548
00:39:08,344 --> 00:39:09,384
And we need more of them.

549
00:39:09,544 --> 00:39:11,784
And Bitcoin Core maintainers used to all be like that.

550
00:39:11,904 --> 00:39:14,224
And now, are any of them like that?

551
00:39:14,284 --> 00:39:15,684
Well, there's one, the new one.

552
00:39:15,884 --> 00:39:16,844
And that's a good sign.

553
00:39:17,284 --> 00:39:18,444
He's from South Africa.

554
00:39:18,824 --> 00:39:27,564
But what he did to establish himself as a future maintainer was he spent his time on the road visiting all the offices.

555
00:39:27,564 --> 00:39:31,264
I asked him, I said, how did you become maintainer without being in offices?

556
00:39:31,444 --> 00:39:32,504
He said, I spent my time in the offices.

557
00:39:32,504 --> 00:39:35,904
I've rotated, I've visited every office, every person, every three months.

558
00:39:38,224 --> 00:39:40,964
I said, smart, that's it.

559
00:39:41,084 --> 00:39:43,624
You did what I'm not willing to do, but that's what needed to be done.

560
00:39:43,964 --> 00:39:46,944
If you're not in an office, you need to be hanging out in the offices.

561
00:39:47,344 --> 00:39:50,424
It's all about hanging out and spending time with the people.

562
00:39:51,384 --> 00:39:53,324
So it didn't used to be like that.

563
00:39:53,384 --> 00:39:56,164
When I joined CORE, all the maintainers were spread across the world.

564
00:39:56,164 --> 00:40:03,164
this this sounds just like the feminization of public schools where where merit used to be the

565
00:40:03,164 --> 00:40:08,884
thing and you you got a test and whoever scored high on the test got the good grade and now it's

566
00:40:08,884 --> 00:40:15,304
the worst it's the worst environment for little for young for boys it doesn't work for young boys

567
00:40:15,304 --> 00:40:19,904
because now you all it's all feminized because you have to work in groups all the time and all

568
00:40:19,904 --> 00:40:26,244
the kids have to present to other kids and and and give so so the introverted developer type

569
00:40:26,244 --> 00:40:32,984
simply doesn't thrive at all in such an environment like if if you're a good if you're a fit for being

570
00:40:32,984 --> 00:40:39,624
a bitcoin developer you're probably more likely to be a recluse in let's say a concrete house in the

571
00:40:39,624 --> 00:40:46,684
jungles of el salvador for for right no they'd rather go they'd rather cold email the block the

572
00:40:46,684 --> 00:40:49,584
the person working on blockchain tech at Berkeley

573
00:40:49,584 --> 00:40:52,864
or the guy running the Bitcoin club at MIT.

574
00:40:53,024 --> 00:40:53,484
I don't know.

575
00:40:56,324 --> 00:40:59,044
The communication by some of the core devs,

576
00:40:59,064 --> 00:41:00,424
there's like a half dozen

577
00:41:00,424 --> 00:41:02,604
that really damaged core's public image.

578
00:41:02,764 --> 00:41:04,004
Back to Zipkin's real question,

579
00:41:04,124 --> 00:41:06,044
how does the project improve its own public relations?

580
00:41:06,504 --> 00:41:07,824
The honest truth is,

581
00:41:08,844 --> 00:41:10,544
first of all, a lot of those core devs

582
00:41:10,544 --> 00:41:13,884
who are wannabe memers and wannabe reply guys on X

583
00:41:13,884 --> 00:41:15,584
really should just stop doing that

584
00:41:15,584 --> 00:41:17,184
because they're hurting Core really badly.

585
00:41:17,444 --> 00:41:18,564
Adam Back isn't helping Core.

586
00:41:18,704 --> 00:41:19,764
Shinobi isn't helping Core.

587
00:41:19,864 --> 00:41:20,984
I'm not going to name the Core devs

588
00:41:20,984 --> 00:41:24,804
to where the most reply guy is on X,

589
00:41:24,944 --> 00:41:27,084
but basically, you know,

590
00:41:27,244 --> 00:41:28,744
if Core stays with a strategy,

591
00:41:28,904 --> 00:41:30,964
and I wrote exactly what I'm going to read you

592
00:41:30,964 --> 00:41:32,784
a message I wrote recently to Mike.

593
00:41:33,384 --> 00:41:34,624
I talk a lot with Mike.

594
00:41:34,784 --> 00:41:37,404
Now, Mike is the CEO of Brink.

595
00:41:37,604 --> 00:41:39,804
Mike is the CEO of Optech.

596
00:41:39,804 --> 00:41:41,964
He co-founded both of those with John Newberry.

597
00:41:42,144 --> 00:41:45,204
And so, yeah, he had some historical baggage

598
00:41:45,204 --> 00:41:52,204
to overcome. But Mike's a good guy, even though, you know, people, he's deeply on the side of core,

599
00:41:52,304 --> 00:41:58,304
whereas I'm on the side of Bitcoin. Now, is that different? Is that the same? Is it okay to be on

600
00:41:58,304 --> 00:42:01,644
the side of Bitcoin, but not on the side of core? That's a whole discussion. But I wrote to Mike,

601
00:42:01,744 --> 00:42:05,924
literally, in a friendly way. We were having not an argument, but a typical friendly discussion.

602
00:42:06,044 --> 00:42:10,124
I like Mike because I can open up to him, for better or worse, and say what I think.

603
00:42:10,124 --> 00:42:40,044
And I wrote to Mike, if Core stays with a strategy that looks like double down, deflect, deny, condescend, blame the critics and the non-Choir Boys, and doesn't occasionally humanly admit to mistakes when needed, and do honest mea culpas and self-examination, and open up to alternatives, say, can code or bring funding devs working on non-Core but friendly alternatives that cooperate and share butt fixes with Core?

604
00:42:40,124 --> 00:42:47,244
etc. Well, Mike, you get the idea. I mean, that's what I would do if I was, there's no CEO of

605
00:42:47,244 --> 00:42:53,584
Core. Well, there kind of is or was in my opinion, but that's what I would do. But of course,

606
00:42:53,664 --> 00:42:56,604
Core is not going to do that. And Core is not going to listen to me in any sort of way.

607
00:42:57,164 --> 00:43:00,964
I want to specify, I am not part of any implementation right now. I'm not

608
00:43:00,964 --> 00:43:05,864
working for Knott's. I'm not working for Libetcoin. I'm not working for Production Ready.

609
00:43:05,864 --> 00:43:08,264
I'm not working for anyone in particular.

610
00:43:08,264 --> 00:43:12,364
I'm not advocating right now for anyone, but that's what I would do if I was core.

611
00:43:12,364 --> 00:43:17,064
But the way it was handled and done and communicated around this op return whole thing was a disaster.

612
00:43:17,064 --> 00:43:19,064
And it still is not improving.

613
00:43:20,364 --> 00:43:34,180
And it back to the cultural chasm Hmm So yeah this is also it such a farce when you dissect it like this

614
00:43:34,420 --> 00:43:39,980
And it's so reminiscent of politics in general,

615
00:43:40,380 --> 00:43:45,600
where like the science goes too far and becomes propagandized.

616
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:53,100
And then some people immediately start thinking Alex Jones is right about everything and the earth is flat and so on and so forth.

617
00:43:53,180 --> 00:43:57,520
So you get this discrepancy between the two worlds, which is just ridiculous.

618
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:03,080
And it's not because the, it's because the quote unquote science side.

619
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,500
Arrogance is what creates all of this, right?

620
00:44:06,620 --> 00:44:08,740
And thinking that you're better than others.

621
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,200
I mean, yeah, not the adoption curve is as much a gift from core.

622
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:21,920
some of the loud people who advocate for core as much as anything else yeah so speaking of that

623
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,340
perhaps the healthy core perhaps the core that was culturally more similar to the outer community

624
00:44:26,340 --> 00:44:32,540
perhaps would have not been as affected nearly as much it's a sign of of a problem that

625
00:44:32,540 --> 00:44:38,380
miss info would be so and i hopefully i really want core to emerge from the process in a better

626
00:44:38,380 --> 00:44:44,040
place. I'm on Team Bitcoin. I want Core to be better. And I want alternatives to Core to improve

627
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:48,260
and be better. And as they become better, Core will have to up its game as well. You know,

628
00:44:48,340 --> 00:44:53,920
it seems healthy to me. And I actually, I asked Mike, I said, philosophically, would you be willing

629
00:44:53,920 --> 00:45:00,940
to fund a developer working on not Core, but something else friendly? You know, and I would

630
00:45:00,940 --> 00:45:07,820
ask the same to, I did ask the same on Twitter to Jonathan Beer of Maelstrom. He said that he

631
00:45:07,820 --> 00:45:09,100
doesn't have the capacity.

632
00:45:09,100 --> 00:45:10,940
And I said, well, but if he did, yes, sure.

633
00:45:10,940 --> 00:45:12,820
He probably has the capacity to fund four

634
00:45:12,820 --> 00:45:14,860
developers right now.

635
00:45:14,860 --> 00:45:16,940
And they are all working on core or on

636
00:45:16,940 --> 00:45:17,940
Pageline.

637
00:45:17,940 --> 00:45:20,500
So they say that in theory, they could be

638
00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:21,220
open to it.

639
00:45:21,220 --> 00:45:23,940
But, you know, I mean, at the moment,

640
00:45:23,940 --> 00:45:25,780
OpenSats is, I think, the only one that is

641
00:45:25,780 --> 00:45:27,940
explicitly open to the idea.

642
00:45:27,940 --> 00:45:30,220
OpenSats is open to funding and they do

643
00:45:30,220 --> 00:45:31,100
fund Libetcoin.

644
00:45:33,020 --> 00:45:34,420
And they do fund Floressa.

645
00:45:36,340 --> 00:45:37,140
Not nuts.

646
00:45:37,820 --> 00:45:48,400
They are willing to fund NOSTER, and I think people like NVK and Matt Odell have even tweeted or posted on NOSTER their willingness to fund NOSTER developers.

647
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:54,920
The thing is that I've been a volunteer helper for OpenStats.

648
00:45:55,660 --> 00:45:58,400
Some people think I'm on the board or something. I'm not on the board.

649
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:00,680
That's flattering, but I'm just a volunteer reviewer.

650
00:46:01,180 --> 00:46:04,560
And so I see the applications that come in for grants.

651
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:14,160
And since November 2024, a year and a half, a little more than a year and a half, I have not seen one from a developer proposing to work on Nuts.

652
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,020
That's the simple truth.

653
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,460
No one is asking for grant support.

654
00:46:21,820 --> 00:46:22,920
So, yeah, yeah.

655
00:46:23,020 --> 00:46:26,840
So it's a non-issue then, I guess.

656
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:32,1000
I mean, there are grant support requests from Libetcoin, from BTCD.

657
00:46:32,1000 --> 00:46:35,600
Calvin Kim is supported by OpenSats.

658
00:46:36,100 --> 00:46:38,940
Floresta, I mean, OpenSats is actively supporting

659
00:46:38,940 --> 00:46:42,480
initiatives like that, as well as many, many others

660
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,300
in mining and so on.

661
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,400
My question is, yes, to the core orthodox funding offices,

662
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,780
do you, will you support competitors to core?

663
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,060
Not only to help competitors to core,

664
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,060
but core itself be better.

665
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,1000
As core has more competition, core will improve.

666
00:47:02,1000 --> 00:47:08,360
it stands to reason it's not about weakening core it's about providing options to people

667
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:16,1000
who want different things while remaining in consensus of course remaining in consensus

668
00:47:16,1000 --> 00:47:23,640
now i i do not all this said i do not necessarily support 110 and we could talk yeah yeah i was

669
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:28,040
going there yeah but it's about strengthening bitcoin right that's a good way of looking at

670
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:42,040
Team Bitcoin. What does being on Team Bitcoin mean? Team Bitcoin means I want to seek robust, healthy, decentralized, well-resourced options from node runners and Bitcoin devs, including the one alternative I personally know well, which is the...

671
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:50,100
yeah so so so over to bip 110 so first of all what do you how do you think this plays out uh

672
00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:55,840
do you have any predictions for that and also what are your criticisms and why and why what

673
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:00,820
what what stance do you take and why do you take it oh you really got to try some of these

674
00:48:00,820 --> 00:48:07,200
homegrown bananas they're so good i love that answer because i'm also super tired of talking

675
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:07,660
about that.

676
00:48:09,580 --> 00:48:11,420
I should really try your bananas.

677
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,320
I'll try them in November, hopefully.

678
00:48:14,220 --> 00:48:15,220
You know, I mean, this

679
00:48:15,220 --> 00:48:17,100
conversation, this topic will

680
00:48:17,100 --> 00:48:19,280
drive people bananas, so might as well, you know,

681
00:48:19,740 --> 00:48:20,180
own it.

682
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,200
They're very small and very sweet. They actually

683
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,320
have a different name, Maniocas, I think,

684
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,080
or something like that. All right.

685
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:28,920
So, BIP-110.

686
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,320
So, did Nott's adoption

687
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:32,720
start stalling when

688
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:34,620
BIP-110

689
00:48:34,620 --> 00:48:36,1000
reduced data temporary

690
00:48:36,1000 --> 00:48:45,120
soft fork come out? I'm not sure. I think that they lost a few people with that soft fork proposal.

691
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:55,620
I could be wrong. So personally, my issue currently with 110, first of all, Luke thought it was very,

692
00:48:55,720 --> 00:49:01,680
very urgent. That's why he self-assigned BIP444 on Twitter. He was thinking CSAN would be in a block

693
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:07,360
the next day, possibly, and we had to be ready immediately that Bitcoin's demise was imminent

694
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:13,500
due to CSAM and some governmental reaction to ungodly CSAM in the blockchain.

695
00:49:14,020 --> 00:49:20,560
I don't think Luke is anti-Bitcoin. I think Luke is very sincere. I am friends with him. I'm friends

696
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:25,360
with Bitcoin Mechanic. I like hanging out with them. I think they have all the best intentions.

697
00:49:25,620 --> 00:49:31,300
I am probably more in the Giacomo Zucco. Some will call us fence sitters. It's sitting on the

698
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:34,300
My issue with BIC 110 is more about scope at the moment.

699
00:49:34,300 --> 00:49:34,920
Scope, right?

700
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:40,340
So there's three possible scopes that I would imagine that a BIC 110 author would be thinking

701
00:49:40,340 --> 00:49:41,340
about.

702
00:49:41,340 --> 00:49:42,340
Right?

703
00:49:42,340 --> 00:49:48,480
One was the clear one would be to do a comprehensive, full, well-researched change for good, like

704
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:52,880
solve the problem for good and be done with it, which is probably how they usually approach

705
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,380
other softwares to approach.

706
00:49:54,380 --> 00:49:55,380
Not completely.

707
00:49:55,380 --> 00:49:56,960
They didn't go all the way with SegWit that they wanted.

708
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:02,200
They didn't do everything they wanted to do, like Sista, cross-input signature aggregation.

709
00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:03,1000
Sometimes you have to scale back.

710
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:08,560
But I think the BIF 110 could have been a full-scale, permanent solution.

711
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:10,900
I have trouble.

712
00:50:11,140 --> 00:50:15,720
The middle road of doing a temporary one-year solution is philosophical for me.

713
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,080
It doesn't make sense to me.

714
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:18,920
I understand why they did it.

715
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:24,240
They felt that this was the only way they had any chance or the best chance of the software succeeding.

716
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:31,080
that is why they chose a temporary soft fork. However, I think it's very odd because a soft

717
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,880
fork is so hard to do nowadays. Every time we do a soft fork, and there's not been many,

718
00:50:35,1000 --> 00:50:41,660
it seems to be harder. It seems like we have to rewrite from scratch the roadmap of how to do it.

719
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:48,260
We don't have a solid process roadmap we can follow. Some would ask if we even can soft fork

720
00:50:48,260 --> 00:50:49,040
at all anymore.

721
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,540
And in this aspect,

722
00:50:52,620 --> 00:50:53,180
it might be interesting

723
00:50:53,180 --> 00:50:54,480
to see what's going to happen

724
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:55,480
come this summer.

725
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,020
But it is so difficult.

726
00:50:58,380 --> 00:51:00,320
It was so hard and challenging

727
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,980
to get Taproot activated,

728
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:04,160
even though it had

729
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:05,540
very wide consensus.

730
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,120
Not the activation method,

731
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:08,320
which was hotly contested,

732
00:51:08,380 --> 00:51:09,560
but the actual change,

733
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:10,260
there seemed to be

734
00:51:10,260 --> 00:51:12,180
very wide, rough consensus.

735
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:13,620
And it still was not easy

736
00:51:13,620 --> 00:51:14,1000
to get activated.

737
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:16,840
The segment before

738
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:18,680
was obviously a battle.

739
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:20,740
With Taproot, though,

740
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:22,920
one could say that it

741
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:24,660
still wasn't hard enough since

742
00:51:24,660 --> 00:51:26,500
it's mostly been used for spam.

743
00:51:27,180 --> 00:51:28,760
I mean, Taproot, I've said this

744
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,740
before, I think it was actually

745
00:51:30,740 --> 00:51:32,840
under-reviewed, and that sounds...

746
00:51:33,740 --> 00:51:35,020
I could be dunked on because

747
00:51:35,020 --> 00:51:36,920
someone could say, but wait, look, we had

748
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,180
this massive initiative, well-organized,

749
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:40,1000
to... There were like three months

750
00:51:40,1000 --> 00:51:43,060
of review study sessions every

751
00:51:43,060 --> 00:51:45,240
week that initially attracted

752
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:53,940
160 around 150, 160 developers to three months of weekly study sessions on Taproot before

753
00:51:53,940 --> 00:51:55,740
the stop fork to review it.

754
00:51:55,740 --> 00:52:12,296
So in theory it should have been extremely well reviewed but I still think that it was not that deeply reviewed Some other people also felt the same Bitcoin OG developers I mean really fully reviewed I not sure there were there were not very many people not enough

755
00:52:12,936 --> 00:52:14,235
Okay, let me interrupt.

756
00:52:14,735 --> 00:52:17,916
A year after it was activated, they received a bounty that I was unaware of.

757
00:52:17,936 --> 00:52:20,136
I was thankful to receive one third of a Bitcoin bounty.

758
00:52:20,696 --> 00:52:22,196
Why did I receive one third of a Bitcoin?

759
00:52:22,796 --> 00:52:25,256
Because I was one of only three people who got the bounty.

760
00:52:25,256 --> 00:52:26,735
The bounty was for reviewing Taproot.

761
00:52:27,475 --> 00:52:28,536
They gave it to three people.

762
00:52:30,016 --> 00:52:33,595
You know, back then, Bitcoin was $1,500 or something.

763
00:52:33,756 --> 00:52:36,496
So, okay, let's dissect this.

764
00:52:36,676 --> 00:52:41,996
Because Taproot was supposed to be reviewed a lot, but you're saying it wasn't.

765
00:52:42,355 --> 00:52:46,436
It was, but how deeply and by how many people all went through.

766
00:52:47,095 --> 00:52:56,936
Given history, now more than 99% of the Taproot transactions are used for absolute shit and things that don't even execute.

767
00:52:56,936 --> 00:52:58,095
and it's spam.

768
00:52:58,835 --> 00:53:00,835
I failed to foresee that.

769
00:53:01,396 --> 00:53:01,556
Yeah.

770
00:53:01,855 --> 00:53:04,556
So regardless of this reviewing,

771
00:53:04,735 --> 00:53:06,496
and you were one of the reviewers

772
00:53:06,496 --> 00:53:07,636
and you couldn't foresee that.

773
00:53:07,636 --> 00:53:10,355
So how much did this,

774
00:53:11,256 --> 00:53:12,975
the wokeness of core, if you will,

775
00:53:13,056 --> 00:53:15,996
or the funding, the culture in core,

776
00:53:16,136 --> 00:53:17,936
let's say, let's call it the culture in core.

777
00:53:18,276 --> 00:53:20,095
Do you think that had any influence

778
00:53:20,095 --> 00:53:22,576
on the reviewing of Taproot?

779
00:53:23,095 --> 00:53:24,776
Wasn't it under enough,

780
00:53:24,776 --> 00:53:31,996
the lack of scrutiny was that because of is that connected to that somehow or or not or is that

781
00:53:31,996 --> 00:53:40,656
your theory just too wild well there were very very powerful people behind the taproot the taproot

782
00:53:40,656 --> 00:53:48,215
at the final push for taproot was very very well orchestrated and i'm not saying that as a gotcha

783
00:53:48,215 --> 00:53:50,256
I'm not saying that as a criticism.

784
00:53:50,955 --> 00:53:55,996
I am saying that as simple observation of what I saw.

785
00:53:56,296 --> 00:53:57,616
It was extremely well orchestrated.

786
00:53:57,896 --> 00:54:03,056
OpTec, their main mission was to promote Taproot, Spiral, Square Crypt at the time.

787
00:54:03,316 --> 00:54:10,996
Their head, let's see, organized with AJ Towns, one of the most OG developers in Bitcoin Core,

788
00:54:11,195 --> 00:54:14,955
and with John Newberry and David Harding, the OpTec people.

789
00:54:14,955 --> 00:54:19,176
that there was this extremely well-organized push

790
00:54:19,176 --> 00:54:21,116
to get it over the line.

791
00:54:22,156 --> 00:54:23,336
Massive mobilization.

792
00:54:23,576 --> 00:54:26,516
And like I said, they got 160 developers roundabout,

793
00:54:27,536 --> 00:54:30,336
signed up to these months and months of study sessions.

794
00:54:32,076 --> 00:54:33,496
There was a lot of organization.

795
00:54:33,696 --> 00:54:34,796
It was really well done.

796
00:54:37,416 --> 00:54:40,975
I mean, I forgot your question, but yet the culture, look,

797
00:54:40,975 --> 00:54:45,016
a very small handful of people have a lot of power and core.

798
00:54:45,835 --> 00:54:51,756
And that has only become, I mean, I think it's always been the case,

799
00:54:51,756 --> 00:54:56,676
but it's hard to say because I became increasingly aware of it at that time

800
00:54:56,676 --> 00:55:00,116
when I saw, I mean, it's the same names who behind funding,

801
00:55:00,616 --> 00:55:05,355
behind offices, behind initiatives like this, the product managers,

802
00:55:05,355 --> 00:55:17,095
You know, the CEO of Chancor Labs, the CEO of Spiral, the CEO of local host now is an up and coming, very ambitious up and coming office.

803
00:55:17,296 --> 00:55:18,056
Very ambitious.

804
00:55:18,195 --> 00:55:22,516
I think they've raised already six million or something more, probably more than that by now.

805
00:55:22,715 --> 00:55:22,996
Brink.

806
00:55:23,276 --> 00:55:29,975
And look, I've had some talks, as I mentioned with Mike, and there was a couple of my criticisms of Brink that I'd like to clarify if I can.

807
00:55:29,975 --> 00:55:37,176
Just to be fair to Brink, because I don't want, like, Brink was singled out for a couple of reasons that are no longer true.

808
00:55:37,715 --> 00:55:42,516
So to be fair to Brink, Brink had a monopoly of maintainers, of Bitcoin coin maintainers.

809
00:55:42,636 --> 00:55:46,595
They had three at one time out of only four in their office.

810
00:55:46,876 --> 00:55:49,316
So they were being criticized as having a monopoly of maintainers.

811
00:55:49,376 --> 00:55:50,235
That is no longer true.

812
00:55:50,355 --> 00:55:51,176
They now have two.

813
00:55:51,355 --> 00:55:55,876
So they still maybe have more than everyone else, but it's no longer a majority of maintainers.

814
00:55:55,876 --> 00:56:00,316
There are now five, I believe, and only two are in the Brink offices.

815
00:56:00,636 --> 00:56:12,955
To the extent that Brink was perhaps linked with co-founder John Newberry was linked to the DEI push and the woke and extreme far left stuff, he's no longer there since 2022, late 2022.

816
00:56:13,215 --> 00:56:18,396
And I don't believe that the current people on the board are necessarily our DEI currently.

817
00:56:18,595 --> 00:56:25,436
Finally, about the offices versus the remotes, Brink, Mike pointed out to me that Brink does fund remotes.

818
00:56:25,876 --> 00:56:32,496
I did think for a long time that Brink strongly encouraged its grantees to come work in the office in London.

819
00:56:33,195 --> 00:56:37,656
I did hear that from a grantee, but there are some who managed to not be in the office.

820
00:56:37,656 --> 00:56:42,715
And Mike said that they've even funded more people not in the office now than that are in.

821
00:56:42,916 --> 00:56:52,316
And I think a current example, I could be wrong, is the latest grant funding by Brink for Conduition to work on cryptography primitives for quantum resistance.

822
00:56:52,316 --> 00:56:57,715
I don't know if that person is in the office, but I tend to think they are remote.

823
00:56:58,016 --> 00:56:59,416
So Brink isn't anti-remote.

824
00:56:59,595 --> 00:57:01,616
If they ever were, they no longer are.

825
00:57:01,715 --> 00:57:03,556
They no longer have a monopoly on maintainers.

826
00:57:03,695 --> 00:57:04,916
They're no longer DEI.

827
00:57:05,175 --> 00:57:07,675
Mike himself doesn't seem to be at all woke.

828
00:57:07,855 --> 00:57:09,376
So I don't want a single Brink out.

829
00:57:09,376 --> 00:57:15,835
And people tend to lump all these funding organizations together, and they each actually have their own thing.

830
00:57:16,076 --> 00:57:21,376
And policy, OpenSats is definitely a part because they're not part of the core orthodoxy.

831
00:57:21,376 --> 00:57:26,656
orthodoxy, HRF has its particular mission, and the core orthodox offices are each quite different.

832
00:57:26,935 --> 00:57:31,996
So, for example, Chaincode Labs does not do remote. As far as I've ever heard, you have to

833
00:57:31,996 --> 00:57:36,516
be working in the office in Chaincode Labs. That is their culture. But Brink is not remote,

834
00:57:37,496 --> 00:57:41,636
hostile, apparently. So I wanted to correct that. But the culture is still very...

835
00:57:43,235 --> 00:57:46,996
The culture is still very strong within CORE, and it's still very different from...

836
00:57:46,996 --> 00:57:50,715
And there was a change, you know, that's a big change. There was a revolution in the palace in

837
00:57:50,715 --> 00:57:55,516
the sense that it used to be all cypher pumps living there was one in holland there was one

838
00:57:55,516 --> 00:58:02,475
in switzerland maintenance one in new zealand one in the south of australia one from germany in new

839
00:58:02,475 --> 00:58:09,195
york one from belgium at the time in san francisco and so all over the world none were in are you

840
00:58:09,195 --> 00:58:16,276
still with me i just got a pop-up on my screen did did i cut out i lost you there a bit i lost

841
00:58:16,276 --> 00:58:22,796
you there for a minute yeah i got a pop-up from from riverside okay what does it say

842
00:58:22,796 --> 00:58:33,455
it asked if riverside could look for local okay yeah yes maybe i i'm sorry to say but i'm a bit

843
00:58:33,455 --> 00:58:38,835
short on time we're having dinner here soon and my family is flying out tomorrow as i won't see

844
00:58:38,835 --> 00:58:45,235
them for a while so so i can't do very much longer but before we round out is there anything else you

845
00:58:45,235 --> 00:58:50,036
wanted to talk about that we haven't talked about yet that we're all right we could pick up for like

846
00:58:50,036 --> 00:58:55,016
another 10 minutes just about el salvador and other random things and then close it so okay

847
00:58:55,016 --> 00:58:58,276
we're going to run low on time we can we can pick this up later there's a lot more there are many

848
00:58:58,276 --> 00:59:02,836
more topics to cover but we'll do that another time about the culture about some of the things

849
00:59:02,836 --> 00:59:09,896
that worry me in the bitcoin core development system also in the bips there's some weirdness

850
00:59:09,896 --> 00:59:14,296
that's been happening behind the scenes the last three four months last two months actually

851
00:59:14,296 --> 00:59:18,156
It has me a bit worried, but yeah, it is what it is.

852
00:59:18,176 --> 00:59:23,256
In the worst case, I'll just go back to working on protocol directly rather than the BIPs.

853
00:59:23,256 --> 00:59:28,936
I am definitely not in favor of the financialization of Bitcoin that we've been seeing, and it's

854
00:59:28,936 --> 00:59:32,576
unraveling probably will be a healthy thing, even if it does short-term hurt Bitcoin.

855
00:59:32,996 --> 00:59:38,016
I believe that the Bitcoin digital asset narrative, digital gold narrative, has been hostile to

856
00:59:38,016 --> 00:59:39,296
Bitcoin as money.

857
00:59:39,876 --> 00:59:43,836
And I hear I'm in El Salvador, I'm using Bitcoin as money.

858
00:59:44,296 --> 00:59:46,536
I'm only using Bitcoin, and that's not always easy.

859
00:59:46,855 --> 00:59:47,955
You have to find workarounds.

860
00:59:48,095 --> 00:59:49,496
If you do come to El Salvador,

861
00:59:50,936 --> 00:59:53,235
well, El Salvador has been kicking my butt pretty hard lately.

862
00:59:53,576 --> 00:59:54,656
And that's actually not new,

863
00:59:54,756 --> 00:59:56,936
but there was a period of two or three weeks,

864
00:59:56,996 --> 00:59:57,695
so it was really rough.

865
00:59:59,036 --> 01:00:02,536
This is, it's a very seductive place to come to and visit,

866
01:00:02,536 --> 01:00:05,116
but it's, be wary.

867
01:00:05,576 --> 01:00:07,496
If you're a Bitcoiner coming to El Salvador,

868
01:00:07,855 --> 01:00:11,396
be particularly wary of the people who seem to,

869
01:00:12,235 --> 01:00:13,876
who you saw at Bitcoin conferences,

870
01:00:13,876 --> 01:00:17,496
who seem to be going out of their way to help you.

871
01:00:17,496 --> 01:00:25,195
Their real goal is, look, new Bitcoiners coming to El Salvador looking to invest is really like fresh blood for mosquitoes.

872
01:00:26,036 --> 01:00:27,316
And you've got to be careful.

873
01:00:28,016 --> 01:00:37,355
They'll want to be your intermediary for sightseeing and for whatever, but also for buying land or investing in real estate.

874
01:00:37,576 --> 01:00:52,491
And there is a whole infrastructure set up to milk fresh Bitcoin people coming here And I would advise you to all be quite wary of who your friends really are It especially it not easy here and it very important to be well informed

875
01:00:52,491 --> 01:00:53,491
And.

876
01:00:54,412 --> 01:00:56,931
There's there's a whole bro thing as well.

877
01:00:56,931 --> 01:00:59,451
It's it's it's mostly on the beach.

878
01:00:59,451 --> 01:01:01,731
It's people who don't actually live using their Bitcoin.

879
01:01:01,731 --> 01:01:03,811
They don't spend their Bitcoin, but they said a Bitcoiners

880
01:01:03,811 --> 01:01:05,131
that go to Bitcoin meet up.

881
01:01:05,131 --> 01:01:06,892
It's all about networking.

882
01:01:06,892 --> 01:01:10,251
And really what they're really about is trying to find a way to to

883
01:01:10,251 --> 01:01:14,951
make money, which is human, which is fair. People need to survive. But just be wary as a new

884
01:01:14,951 --> 01:01:22,431
Bitcoiner here in El Salvador that there's a whole system here whose goal, their income depends on

885
01:01:22,431 --> 01:01:28,431
you. So be wary of that. Personally, I stay a bit out of the Bitcoin scene in El Salvador. I just

886
01:01:28,431 --> 01:01:32,892
try to focus on doing my work and solving my problems here in El Salvador. And there are

887
01:01:32,892 --> 01:01:39,231
always many. It's not a plug and play country yet unless you go to the city. Perhaps there it's a

888
01:01:39,231 --> 01:01:44,191
bit more plug and play but if you want to live completely on a bitcoin standard and

889
01:01:45,152 --> 01:01:50,591
own your own land and have your own water and your own electricity and your own food there's quite a

890
01:01:53,152 --> 01:02:00,272
so sounds a bit sounds a bit like a bitcoin conference like a prolonged bitcoin conference

891
01:02:00,272 --> 01:02:06,191
where they're the story you meet a lot of bitcoin and friends but quite a few of them are out to to

892
01:02:06,191 --> 01:02:11,152
promote whatever it is they're promoting and take your money yeah and you know as a single guy it's

893
01:02:11,152 --> 01:02:16,291
not easy here either single women are very very welcome because the the local salvadorans would

894
01:02:16,291 --> 01:02:22,491
very much like to have many of them very much like to have a a gringa girlfriend you know a white

895
01:02:22,491 --> 01:02:26,511
girlfriend moving here and they'll be very welcoming but as a single guy you're kind of an

896
01:02:26,511 --> 01:02:32,251
invader you know it's it's not easy uh it's very it's a very close very conservative society

897
01:02:32,251 --> 01:02:33,772
outside of the city.

898
01:02:34,031 --> 01:02:35,091
I mean, if you're a guy like me,

899
01:02:35,131 --> 01:02:38,331
I'm not particularly interested in the city dating life

900
01:02:38,331 --> 01:02:39,731
or the party dating life on the beach.

901
01:02:40,291 --> 01:02:42,931
I'd be looking for someone a little bit more serious.

902
01:02:43,272 --> 01:02:45,011
You know, in the city, you'll meet people,

903
01:02:45,152 --> 01:02:47,431
but not necessarily the people I would personally be interested in.

904
01:02:47,711 --> 01:02:50,392
So yeah, El Salvador, it's amazing.

905
01:02:50,491 --> 01:02:51,091
I love it here.

906
01:02:51,351 --> 01:02:52,551
But there are definite challenges.

907
01:02:52,671 --> 01:02:53,431
It's not plug and play.

908
01:02:53,431 --> 01:02:56,791
The infrastructure is really, it's best to do it yourself.

909
01:02:56,991 --> 01:02:58,611
But that's a whole challenge on its own.

910
01:02:58,892 --> 01:03:01,131
Energy, water, internet, payments.

911
01:03:01,131 --> 01:03:05,851
your own Bitcoin network, your own personal Bitcoin circular economy. You'll want to build

912
01:03:05,851 --> 01:03:09,751
that yourself so that you can do everything you need to do with Bitcoin if you're the kind of

913
01:03:09,751 --> 01:03:13,551
Bitcoiner who wants to actually spend their Bitcoin in El Salvador. That's why I came here,

914
01:03:13,611 --> 01:03:18,272
was to live on Bitcoin and not just hang out with Bitcoiners while spending dollars and using my

915
01:03:18,272 --> 01:03:23,071
credit card. So I feel actually quite different from most of the Bitcoiners here. And many of the

916
01:03:23,071 --> 01:03:28,791
Bitcoiners here are just really looking to other Bitcoiners as a source of income. So just be wary

917
01:03:28,791 --> 01:03:35,231
of that. Don't be naive. There's a whole ecosystem here of Bitcoiners that aren't really Bitcoiners

918
01:03:35,231 --> 01:03:39,791
who are looking to make their living from Bitcoiners. And I just try to say that completely

919
01:03:39,791 --> 01:03:44,851
myself. I do try to be involved with the Bitcoin offices, the National Bitcoin Office's educational

920
01:03:44,851 --> 01:03:50,091
efforts, teaching the students, doing lectures, doing interactive workshops. They have a great

921
01:03:50,091 --> 01:03:56,631
team. I love the people that Stacey has got around her helping to work on Bitcoin here in the country.

922
01:03:56,631 --> 01:04:02,031
she's doing as best she can it's very impressive and you know if you come here definitely good

923
01:04:02,031 --> 01:04:06,751
people but be wary some of the people who claim to be your friends that you met at bitcoin

924
01:04:06,751 --> 01:04:13,491
conferences are actually just there too hoping to make money from you so what about the state of it

925
01:04:13,491 --> 01:04:22,071
what about the state of exception the book like lawlessness alleged lawlessness is that

926
01:04:22,071 --> 01:04:23,791
Is that worrying you?

927
01:04:23,791 --> 01:04:24,311
It's heavy here.

928
01:04:24,532 --> 01:04:29,652
Well, yeah, it worries me in the sense that, look, I love how safe the country is to come.

929
01:04:29,772 --> 01:04:31,751
And I can only massively applaud.

930
01:04:31,831 --> 01:04:34,172
The reason I'm here and still here is how safe it is.

931
01:04:34,831 --> 01:04:35,772
And that is amazing.

932
01:04:35,951 --> 01:04:37,071
And it had to be done.

933
01:04:37,071 --> 01:04:38,251
I don't criticize.

934
01:04:39,611 --> 01:04:41,631
There was only one way to solve this problem.

935
01:04:41,971 --> 01:04:45,172
And the president did the way that was needed.

936
01:04:46,392 --> 01:04:48,131
There is a backside to that.

937
01:04:48,131 --> 01:04:58,751
Behind the scenes, once you get away from the tourist areas, it's a very heavy climate because people are afraid of going to jail and not getting out for a very long time.

938
01:04:58,831 --> 01:05:00,392
You need to afford to afford a lawyer.

939
01:05:00,631 --> 01:05:01,371
It's not easy.

940
01:05:01,551 --> 01:05:04,531
I myself was arrested on a false accusation.

941
01:05:04,731 --> 01:05:11,431
And if I had not had connections with the Bitcoin office, I would have gone to jail for for at least five days.

942
01:05:11,431 --> 01:05:18,171
Not the thickot where the gang members are, but jail, Conchalio's, the city where that one is.

943
01:05:18,751 --> 01:05:21,111
So I would have gone to jail on a false accusation.

944
01:05:21,191 --> 01:05:21,931
It's quite heavy here.

945
01:05:22,031 --> 01:05:26,611
Someone can call and say their neighbor is part of the gangs and the police will show up, as far as I understand.

946
01:05:26,892 --> 01:05:29,531
And so it makes people a little fearful, makes people heavy.

947
01:05:29,631 --> 01:05:32,191
People are very worried about what other people might say about them.

948
01:05:33,111 --> 01:05:35,231
You know, and I have some friends here in the mountains.

949
01:05:35,892 --> 01:05:40,871
And the stuff I hear about me from other people, they say, oh, they're your friends only because of your money.

950
01:05:40,871 --> 01:05:42,311
or this and that.

951
01:05:42,591 --> 01:05:45,111
I've heard someone say that I bought someone's kids.

952
01:05:45,631 --> 01:05:46,511
Weird stuff.

953
01:05:46,691 --> 01:05:47,431
It's heavy.

954
01:05:47,831 --> 01:05:50,131
There's a very big disconnect to bridge

955
01:05:50,131 --> 01:05:52,912
between, say, your life as a foreigner

956
01:05:52,912 --> 01:05:55,611
working on Bitcoin protocol and things like that

957
01:05:55,611 --> 01:05:57,011
and the local people around you

958
01:05:57,011 --> 01:05:59,511
who live with very little money

959
01:05:59,511 --> 01:06:02,231
and life seems to be very basic to them.

960
01:06:02,392 --> 01:06:04,051
It's all about local gossip

961
01:06:04,051 --> 01:06:06,491
and that gossip could actually get you in jail.

962
01:06:06,691 --> 01:06:07,971
Someone says something bad about you,

963
01:06:08,011 --> 01:06:09,091
you could find yourself in jail.

964
01:06:09,591 --> 01:06:10,731
So it is heavy.

965
01:06:10,871 --> 01:06:16,971
behind the scenes. And there is a little bit of privilege in being the foreign tourist or looking

966
01:06:16,971 --> 01:06:22,031
like one. The police will stop you less on the road, though you still, I do not advise drinking

967
01:06:22,031 --> 01:06:25,591
and driving in this country. It's very strict in that way. I do not advise doing drugs in this

968
01:06:25,591 --> 01:06:31,091
country. It is very strict about drugs. Just because you're a tourist or a foreigner doesn't

969
01:06:31,091 --> 01:06:34,831
mean you're going to be, you're not going to get caught. There are foreign people who were caught

970
01:06:34,831 --> 01:06:39,071
doing drugs as we're in jail. I don't advise messing with that. But even for the locals,

971
01:06:39,071 --> 01:06:41,272
They get, they're very, very fearful.

972
01:06:41,991 --> 01:06:46,591
So the state of exception, it would be nice for it to end, but I don't know when they can.

973
01:06:47,231 --> 01:06:48,991
It's also very nice for the country to be safe.

974
01:06:49,172 --> 01:06:58,451
It's, you know, I think it's a difficult balance and I'm not in any way able to advise how the government could do it better.

975
01:06:58,551 --> 01:06:59,451
And I don't wish to.

976
01:06:59,691 --> 01:07:00,451
It's a tough job.

977
01:07:00,831 --> 01:07:03,251
I personally have my reservations about some things.

978
01:07:03,251 --> 01:07:07,791
So like the electrical towers they put in nearby here,

979
01:07:08,451 --> 01:07:09,991
I'm measuring, they're starting to go live.

980
01:07:10,071 --> 01:07:11,951
I'm measuring with my bullshit radiation meter

981
01:07:11,951 --> 01:07:14,031
to see how much exposure there is.

982
01:07:14,051 --> 01:07:15,271
For the moment, there's very, very little.

983
01:07:15,531 --> 01:07:17,551
It's only a test signal going through them.

984
01:07:17,991 --> 01:07:18,912
I can tell that myself.

985
01:07:20,071 --> 01:07:22,211
But yeah, I don't know if this is interesting

986
01:07:22,211 --> 01:07:23,971
to podcast listeners,

987
01:07:23,971 --> 01:07:27,152
but I mean, in any paradise, there's also a hell.

988
01:07:27,631 --> 01:07:31,011
And it's, you know, it's not that simple.

989
01:07:31,311 --> 01:07:33,111
And it's not plug and play at all.

990
01:07:33,251 --> 01:07:37,351
I've learned a lot since being here about infrastructure, among other things.

991
01:07:39,392 --> 01:07:42,951
And how have you solved the problems that come up?

992
01:07:43,111 --> 01:07:45,551
Like, is it easy to find handymen and stuff?

993
01:07:46,111 --> 01:07:54,631
I have a full-time team of about, on average, seven to eight people and a four-man and a full-time caretaker assistant.

994
01:07:54,951 --> 01:08:02,172
I don't know how long labor will remain inexpensive here, but as long as it does, the way to get things done is to hire people, have people.

995
01:08:02,172 --> 01:08:05,011
I have a full-time steady team since three years.

996
01:08:05,331 --> 01:08:08,392
And it's the only civilized way, actually, in a country.

997
01:08:08,491 --> 01:08:13,591
What makes the country feel civilized is that you do have staff because they are so far inexpensive.

998
01:08:13,951 --> 01:08:15,191
You go to a hotel, there's staff.

999
01:08:15,251 --> 01:08:16,351
You go to a restaurant, there's staff.

1000
01:08:16,451 --> 01:08:17,311
There's people to help you.

1001
01:08:17,631 --> 01:08:23,211
It's not like going to the United States where you have a whole hotel with just like one person full-time working in it and the others are just contractual.

1002
01:08:24,051 --> 01:08:26,991
It's quite civilized in a colonial way, I guess.

1003
01:08:27,831 --> 01:08:31,251
So the thing to do is to have people and to rely on these people.

1004
01:08:31,251 --> 01:08:37,591
And I do. I have a full-time team. And I don't see an end to that. I'm not looking when I can

1005
01:08:37,591 --> 01:08:44,011
stop hiring all of them to save money because I think that it's not a good savings. You need

1006
01:08:44,011 --> 01:08:49,291
people and it's very worthwhile to hire people. And quite a few young people in the nearby town

1007
01:08:49,291 --> 01:08:55,192
have worked for me over the years. So my answer has been, thankfully, that I have a good team.

1008
01:08:55,892 --> 01:09:00,251
It's not always simple, but I try to take care of them and do right by them.

1009
01:09:00,251 --> 01:09:04,972
it's not always difficult also because you're a foreigner and so that introduces additional

1010
01:09:04,972 --> 01:09:10,291
complexity in your relationships with people um you're the you're the rich guy on the hill

1011
01:09:10,291 --> 01:09:15,351
uh to the townspeople clearly and there's lots of gossip but you know you do what you can

1012
01:09:15,351 --> 01:09:20,152
it's sort of yeah it's it's a different life

1013
01:09:20,152 --> 01:09:26,672
you're suddenly the rich guy you're the employer you're the rich guy everyone expects you to be

1014
01:09:26,687 --> 01:09:32,127
but are generous. And there is a different standard. You need to be generous and you need

1015
01:09:32,127 --> 01:09:35,787
to be helpful in taking care of people. That's what people are wanting from you and expecting

1016
01:09:35,787 --> 01:09:41,127
from you. And there's a whole aspect of education very badly needed in this country. And that's why

1017
01:09:41,127 --> 01:09:47,527
there's so much push for educators and grassroots initiatives in the circular economies and about

1018
01:09:47,527 --> 01:09:52,647
Bitcoin, but not just Bitcoin, education in general. This country is coming out from a dark

1019
01:09:52,647 --> 01:09:59,467
place. And there's a lot of work to do. And a lot of the Salvadorans who escaped 30 years ago,

1020
01:09:59,607 --> 01:10:05,087
who are called hermanos lejanos, far off brothers, were coming back. It's not always simple. The

1021
01:10:05,087 --> 01:10:09,727
relationships between them and the local population either. The population you stayed are very different

1022
01:10:09,727 --> 01:10:13,907
from what they became. The people who were coming back from Canada and the U.S. There is a cultural

1023
01:10:13,907 --> 01:10:19,207
divide. And the issues I've actually seen the most are with these people coming back. And the locals

1024
01:10:19,207 --> 01:10:25,127
are great, but it's not easy and it's quite heavy. There's a certain heaviness here once you

1025
01:10:25,127 --> 01:10:29,447
look behind the curtain. And I in no way mean to be critical of the government. They've done

1026
01:10:29,447 --> 01:10:33,047
amazing things here and they're trying as they can. And it's probably very difficult,

1027
01:10:33,047 --> 01:10:36,967
especially with the financial situation, the pressure from the IMF, the pressure from the

1028
01:10:36,967 --> 01:10:40,967
United States governments, especially Biden before Biden, I think was quite hostile.

1029
01:10:42,327 --> 01:10:45,607
Trump's seems more supportive, but Trump's also doing things that aren't

1030
01:10:45,607 --> 01:10:52,147
helping us either, us Bitcoiners with his tariffs and yeah, it's not helping Bitcoin right now.

1031
01:10:52,367 --> 01:10:56,367
The financialization of Bitcoin that's gone in the US, all that stuff is not helpful.

1032
01:10:57,727 --> 01:11:02,887
I do not mean to criticize President McKellie and his government. It's very important that they

1033
01:11:02,887 --> 01:11:10,027
made the country safe. That is the fundamental base from which all the rest can grow and be

1034
01:11:10,027 --> 01:11:16,627
nurtured but it will take time and i think the president is correct in putting so much focus at

1035
01:11:16,627 --> 01:11:21,047
the moment on schools and education of the children because those that's your future

1036
01:11:21,047 --> 01:11:29,967
yeah absolutely lena saiche is working on that too i i believe i've she she talked about that and

1037
01:11:29,967 --> 01:11:35,807
at the last bitcoin historical helping out we're renovating like 500 schools or whatever it was like

1038
01:11:35,807 --> 01:11:42,207
a lot of them and it's it's looking fantastic so yeah i'm certainly looking forward to coming back

1039
01:11:42,207 --> 01:11:48,467
i i love el salvador in its own little way but i i had no like preconceived

1040
01:11:48,467 --> 01:11:55,647
ideas about it i i spent parts of my childhood in various african countries where my dad was

1041
01:11:55,647 --> 01:12:02,127
also had like people employed all the time for very cheap and so i i know of this colonial

1042
01:12:02,127 --> 01:12:10,507
thing. Like, I've seen it before. So I sort of expected that. And that's how El Salvador was.

1043
01:12:10,507 --> 01:12:20,087
I mean, maybe not in El Zante and up in the city, but in general, developing countries are

1044
01:12:20,087 --> 01:12:26,847
different, for sure. No, El Zante was very backward. I mean, they only went from dirt

1045
01:12:26,847 --> 01:12:31,427
roads to paved roads two and a half years ago. El Zante has the worst infrastructure. It's the

1046
01:12:31,427 --> 01:12:36,067
most expensive small town while it has the worst infrastructure that I have seen in this country.

1047
01:12:36,247 --> 01:12:41,727
I mean, the water, the electricity, the internet in El Zante, it was terrible. It really penalized

1048
01:12:41,727 --> 01:12:46,987
me as a developer because nowhere I could rent in El Zante was plug and play. Nowhere would just

1049
01:12:46,987 --> 01:12:53,327
work without water going out, the internet going out, electrical outages. It was absolutely a

1050
01:12:53,327 --> 01:13:00,567
horrendous place to get things done. And that was what pushed me to buy and set up my own

1051
01:13:00,567 --> 01:13:04,307
environments because there were no good environments. And I would talk to the locals

1052
01:13:04,307 --> 01:13:08,527
about it and the locals actually thought that the rustic, flaky

1053
01:13:08,527 --> 01:13:12,427
infrastructure was actually a charming draw for the

1054
01:13:12,427 --> 01:13:16,527
surfer girls and the yoga girls and the kind of people who were going to Zodte. They thought, oh, that's

1055
01:13:16,527 --> 01:13:20,427
what we want to be. We want to be this rustic, flaky, water goes out kind of place

1056
01:13:20,427 --> 01:13:24,287
for the eat, pray, love people, you know, the hippie vibe.

1057
01:13:24,547 --> 01:13:28,387
But for a Bitcoin protocol developer, it was a freaking nightmare. And

1058
01:13:28,387 --> 01:13:30,007
And everyone said, well, you got to be in the city.

1059
01:13:30,007 --> 01:13:34,327
Well, I don't like the city in general, and especially not here.

1060
01:13:34,327 --> 01:13:39,127
I go in the city for two hours, do my class at the national Bitcoin office, buy something

1061
01:13:39,127 --> 01:13:40,807
that I need to buy and get out.

1062
01:13:40,807 --> 01:13:43,307
The traffic is trying to, it's ugly.

1063
01:13:43,307 --> 01:13:44,807
It's not my thing at all.

1064
01:13:44,807 --> 01:13:48,887
I'm not in El Salvador for the city and the city feels way more fiat, way less Bitcoin

1065
01:13:48,887 --> 01:13:53,607
friendly than here in my small town where I have my local economy set up where I can

1066
01:13:53,607 --> 01:13:56,367
pay for everything I'm interested in using Bitcoin.

1067
01:13:56,367 --> 01:13:58,647
El Zante, which is fully Bitcoinized as well.

1068
01:13:59,247 --> 01:14:05,527
So, yeah, you kind of have to, it's the kind of place where you still can come and create your own adventure.

1069
01:14:06,367 --> 01:14:07,767
That window will close.

1070
01:14:07,967 --> 01:14:10,367
El Salvador is not going to last like this forever.

1071
01:14:10,607 --> 01:14:11,647
Things are getting more expensive.

1072
01:14:12,107 --> 01:14:12,927
There's more regulations.

1073
01:14:13,227 --> 01:14:14,267
Things are getting more complex.

1074
01:14:15,247 --> 01:14:16,367
Permitting is getting harder.

1075
01:14:17,367 --> 01:14:18,187
Prices have gone up.

1076
01:14:18,187 --> 01:14:25,467
Even though the war in Iraq, thanks to the U.S. and Israel, prices for building materials here have gone up 20%.

1077
01:14:25,687 --> 01:14:27,287
Gasoline is up by half for more.

1078
01:14:28,027 --> 01:14:29,067
Prices are going up.

1079
01:14:29,307 --> 01:14:31,627
Realist-filled price of land is kind of crazy.

1080
01:14:31,747 --> 01:14:32,887
I think it's way too high.

1081
01:14:33,307 --> 01:14:35,747
I thought that two years ago as well, and it's kept going higher.

1082
01:14:37,287 --> 01:14:39,587
There's a window of time when you can come here and build,

1083
01:14:39,667 --> 01:14:43,027
and I'm trying to do as much of it as I can while that window is open,

1084
01:14:43,467 --> 01:14:45,087
thinking that it won't last very long.

1085
01:14:46,627 --> 01:14:51,907
Yeah, well, hyper-Bitcoinization could make it last forever, in a way.

1086
01:14:52,147 --> 01:14:54,407
Well, yeah, but El Salvador, if anything,

1087
01:14:54,407 --> 01:14:57,127
I mean, it's challenging right now with Bitcoin.

1088
01:14:57,327 --> 01:15:00,567
I mean, the emphasis, if you look at the Bitcoin office,

1089
01:15:00,727 --> 01:15:03,327
it's actual emphasis that it's pivoted to AI.

1090
01:15:03,907 --> 01:15:05,527
The AI conference has been added.

1091
01:15:05,787 --> 01:15:07,627
The government is thinking more about AI.

1092
01:15:07,907 --> 01:15:09,347
It isn't talking about Bitcoin anymore.

1093
01:15:09,447 --> 01:15:11,407
Bitcoin is not really much of a topic.

1094
01:15:11,547 --> 01:15:14,107
Now, maybe I'm overly exaggerating,

1095
01:15:14,387 --> 01:15:19,987
but it feels here in your tummy that Bitcoin's moment has passed.

1096
01:15:20,327 --> 01:15:22,507
And that's since the IMF deal, maybe.

1097
01:15:22,507 --> 01:15:29,467
Now, I hope that's just a false feeling and that it will come back when the market price goes up and then people get excited again.

1098
01:15:29,607 --> 01:15:32,627
But now is the time to build and it's harder now.

1099
01:15:34,447 --> 01:15:37,287
Because, yeah, and Bitcoin doesn't feel like it's adoption.

1100
01:15:37,867 --> 01:15:41,967
It might be increasing at the grassroots level, bit by bit, person by person.

1101
01:15:42,647 --> 01:15:47,687
But with the retail outlets and the chains and the banks and all that, it doesn't feel friendlier.

1102
01:15:48,027 --> 01:15:51,207
KYC is way more hardcore now than only two years ago.

1103
01:15:51,207 --> 01:15:54,047
I just tried to open yesterday a DitoBanks account.

1104
01:15:54,487 --> 01:15:59,987
DitoBanks is sort of a new bank that works with Bitcoin and allows you to have a credit card to pay everything using your Bitcoin here.

1105
01:16:00,147 --> 01:16:02,167
And my friends have been recommending it for years.

1106
01:16:02,267 --> 01:16:03,287
They said, oh, just a snap.

1107
01:16:03,367 --> 01:16:04,587
You just signed up a form and you're good.

1108
01:16:05,047 --> 01:16:10,027
And I started it and I'm going through several days of KYC and closing an apartment on the beach.

1109
01:16:10,207 --> 01:16:12,007
KYC took one freaking month.

1110
01:16:12,427 --> 01:16:15,067
The KYC is going way up through the roof.

1111
01:16:15,287 --> 01:16:17,247
The checking, the background checks.

1112
01:16:17,247 --> 01:16:21,447
Now, I don't think it's about gangs and gang-related activity.

1113
01:16:21,547 --> 01:16:26,027
I think it's related to increasing KYC requirements all across the globe.

1114
01:16:26,067 --> 01:16:28,727
And it's definitely extremely been ramped up here.

1115
01:16:28,827 --> 01:16:31,907
There's a new KYC law since last October, November.

1116
01:16:32,187 --> 01:16:34,567
It's come into effect, and it is hardcore.

1117
01:16:35,787 --> 01:16:36,847
It is super hardcore.

1118
01:16:38,327 --> 01:16:40,127
So, yeah, those are a good sign.

1119
01:16:40,127 --> 01:16:45,847
At the same time, I understand it's not easy for a country like El Salvador to integrate as best as it can

1120
01:16:45,847 --> 01:16:51,327
with the international community, international finance, and lending, and having funding for its

1121
01:16:51,327 --> 01:16:57,827
development needs, but at the same time being able to resist the encroachment of over-the-top KYC

1122
01:16:57,827 --> 01:17:04,547
and surveillance. And I hope that this country will resist it, but right now KYC AML compliance

1123
01:17:04,547 --> 01:17:11,707
has gone up incredibly. It's hard. I mean, the thing to hope for, whatever the government does

1124
01:17:11,707 --> 01:17:14,587
in any country is grassroots Bitcoin adoption.

1125
01:17:14,587 --> 01:17:19,027
And El Salvador's got quite a bit of that, at least.

1126
01:17:19,387 --> 01:17:21,507
So as long as that keeps growing...

1127
01:17:21,507 --> 01:17:22,767
You can live only with Bitcoin.

1128
01:17:23,747 --> 01:17:24,187
Yeah.

1129
01:17:24,827 --> 01:17:27,747
You can do it, but you have to make an effort.

1130
01:17:27,927 --> 01:17:28,767
And most Bitcoiners I know,

1131
01:17:29,067 --> 01:17:30,767
most Bitcoiners in El Salvador

1132
01:17:30,767 --> 01:17:33,747
aren't going through the crazy effort that is required.

1133
01:17:34,207 --> 01:17:35,027
Sorry, message.

1134
01:17:35,407 --> 01:17:36,467
That is required to...

1135
01:17:36,467 --> 01:17:37,067
I'm sorry.

1136
01:17:37,547 --> 01:17:39,907
My phone just screwed up because I got a message.

1137
01:17:40,087 --> 01:17:40,507
I'm sorry.

1138
01:17:40,667 --> 01:17:40,967
Sorry.

1139
01:17:40,967 --> 01:17:41,547
No worries.

1140
01:17:41,707 --> 01:17:50,707
yeah you can live all on bitcoin here i'll start off you can't live all on bitcoin and so many

1141
01:17:50,707 --> 01:17:56,387
bitcoiners are from the united states and don't want to spend their bitcoin at all anyway so it's

1142
01:17:56,387 --> 01:18:12,017
actually quite rare to live using only bitcoin we need more people doing that so the adoption will continue to increase especially with merchants and big retailers and so on So yes we need more people here actually living using their Bitcoin

1143
01:18:13,157 --> 01:18:13,637
Good God.

1144
01:18:15,757 --> 01:18:16,837
Here we go again.

1145
01:18:16,997 --> 01:18:17,777
John, I'm...

1146
01:18:17,777 --> 01:18:18,057
Sorry.

1147
01:18:18,837 --> 01:18:20,857
Unfortunately, I'm running out of time.

1148
01:18:21,317 --> 01:18:26,997
So before we round this out, anywhere you want, in particular, you want to send my listeners to?

1149
01:18:27,997 --> 01:18:29,037
Or our listeners to?

1150
01:18:29,037 --> 01:18:31,897
Sorry, nothing off the top of my head except, I guess, my X account.

1151
01:18:31,897 --> 01:18:33,897
I do like X.

1152
01:18:34,257 --> 01:18:36,617
I do appreciate that Elon Musk bought X.

1153
01:18:36,697 --> 01:18:38,737
I'm very grateful for the freedom of expression.

1154
01:18:39,677 --> 01:18:42,037
I wonder what sort of place we would be in right now.

1155
01:18:42,277 --> 01:18:49,917
It looks like the dystopian surveillance is definitely trying to reorganize and counterattack after the COVID stuff.

1156
01:18:50,417 --> 01:18:58,317
And here it is again with the age verification and the digital ID and the ramping up of surveillance and KYC and all that.

1157
01:18:58,917 --> 01:18:59,697
Yeah, it's awful.

1158
01:18:59,697 --> 01:19:01,957
I hope that it's awful.

1159
01:19:02,417 --> 01:19:05,897
And it's all across the world again, just like the COVID crap was.

1160
01:19:06,237 --> 01:19:07,857
So resist, people.

1161
01:19:08,077 --> 01:19:10,077
My main thing is please use your Bitcoin.

1162
01:19:10,717 --> 01:19:11,677
It's not an asset.

1163
01:19:11,937 --> 01:19:13,037
Use it also as money.

1164
01:19:13,257 --> 01:19:15,917
Move if you need to to escape the dystopia.

1165
01:19:16,017 --> 01:19:18,437
If it comes here to El Salvador, I will sell and I will move.

1166
01:19:18,577 --> 01:19:18,997
I will leave.

1167
01:19:19,117 --> 01:19:20,297
I will vote with my feet.

1168
01:19:20,537 --> 01:19:23,317
It's the only best way you can vote is with your money, your feet.

1169
01:19:24,037 --> 01:19:24,817
So, yeah.

1170
01:19:26,337 --> 01:19:28,857
I'm not actually very hopeful about those things.

1171
01:19:28,857 --> 01:19:31,697
And I think we have another battle ahead of us, just like COVID was.

1172
01:19:31,817 --> 01:19:37,797
I hope not, because COVID was a serious, not the virus, the reaction to COVID, the agenda

1173
01:19:37,797 --> 01:19:40,417
was the most frightening thing I think I've seen in a long time.

1174
01:19:40,517 --> 01:19:43,037
And I feel like it's on its way back and we need to be careful.

1175
01:19:44,297 --> 01:19:44,737
Absolutely.

1176
01:19:45,137 --> 01:19:50,377
And I urge every kid in the UK and everywhere else also for that matter to learn how to

1177
01:19:50,377 --> 01:19:52,597
use a VPN and learn how to use...

1178
01:19:52,597 --> 01:19:54,597
And self-custody, self-custody.

1179
01:19:54,597 --> 01:19:58,277
Don't buy Bitcoin stocks.

1180
01:19:58,277 --> 01:19:59,597
Don't buy Bitcoin ETFs.

1181
01:19:59,777 --> 01:20:05,137
Self-effing custody so that you can move with your Bitcoin anywhere you need to go.

1182
01:20:05,537 --> 01:20:05,797
Yeah.

1183
01:20:06,057 --> 01:20:06,237
Yeah.

1184
01:20:06,377 --> 01:20:06,617
Don't.

1185
01:20:06,977 --> 01:20:07,137
Yeah.

1186
01:20:07,257 --> 01:20:07,777
No, seriously.

1187
01:20:08,057 --> 01:20:10,357
And be careful with borrowing against your Bitcoin.

1188
01:20:10,597 --> 01:20:13,077
You don't have self-custody and you can get liquidated.

1189
01:20:14,197 --> 01:20:17,197
For all we know, Bitcoin could keep going down if the cycles hold.

1190
01:20:17,397 --> 01:20:19,257
I say this as a complete way, person.

1191
01:20:19,637 --> 01:20:22,677
If the cycles hold with Bitcoin's bottom will be in October, November.

1192
01:20:23,037 --> 01:20:24,417
We may not have seen the bottom yet.

1193
01:20:24,937 --> 01:20:25,817
Be careful out there.

1194
01:20:25,857 --> 01:20:26,617
Don't get liquidated.

1195
01:20:26,617 --> 01:20:31,317
If you're going to speculate on Bitcoin going up, I think you've got to wait a little bit longer.

1196
01:20:31,557 --> 01:20:32,917
But what do I know? I don't trade.

1197
01:20:33,497 --> 01:20:34,097
I don't trade.

1198
01:20:34,797 --> 01:20:37,157
Hello there, John. How are you today?

1199
01:20:38,337 --> 01:20:41,357
Hello, Knut. Good to see you again.

1200
01:20:41,477 --> 01:20:42,237
Good to see you again.

1201
01:20:43,117 --> 01:20:45,497
We're recording from Bitcoin Beach.

1202
01:20:46,057 --> 01:20:46,317
Yes.

1203
01:20:46,317 --> 01:20:46,977
The ocean here.

1204
01:20:47,137 --> 01:20:53,657
Yeah, I won't ask you to film there because then we'll have to put the camera back in the correct position.

1205
01:20:53,777 --> 01:20:54,697
And that can take a while.

1206
01:20:54,697 --> 01:21:03,557
But two days have passed since we last spoke, and we wanted to cover a few more topics that we missed last time.

1207
01:21:03,677 --> 01:21:06,577
So let's just get into it. What do you want to talk about?

1208
01:21:06,837 --> 01:21:16,697
Well, I think we should retouch on the Hopelnot articles and maybe also the discussion yesterday with the BIP 110 people on X.

1209
01:21:17,477 --> 01:21:19,677
And I wanted to talk about the BIP a bit.

1210
01:21:19,677 --> 01:21:28,917
Yes, one thing I know that you wanted to, because we sort of got lost in that topic, the BIP-110 topic.

1211
01:21:29,077 --> 01:21:31,677
We never got to what your stance is, really.

1212
01:21:31,977 --> 01:21:34,137
So please talk about BIP-110.

1213
01:21:34,957 --> 01:21:39,337
That's like 80% of what we talk about in this channel nowadays.

1214
01:21:39,677 --> 01:21:41,077
So let's just chime in here.

1215
01:21:41,697 --> 01:21:42,057
Right.

1216
01:21:42,057 --> 01:21:50,337
It's kind of funny because I think people see the HODLNOT articles as purely being about supporting BIP-110.

1217
01:21:50,837 --> 01:21:56,737
And BIP-110 people and NOT and CORE each think I'm working maybe for the other side,

1218
01:21:56,957 --> 01:22:02,117
when in fact I'm just trying to stay out of the camps, tribes, and the fray.

1219
01:22:02,117 --> 01:22:11,817
I have been asked repeatedly by the NOTs and BIP-110 people to do a deep review of the implementation of BIP-110.

1220
01:22:12,057 --> 01:22:17,537
I've just had a really clown show of a year this year so far

1221
01:22:17,537 --> 01:22:19,537
and just having so many issues.

1222
01:22:19,937 --> 01:22:21,777
Part of that being where I am,

1223
01:22:21,857 --> 01:22:24,577
not being a very plug-and-play place to live,

1224
01:22:24,777 --> 01:22:26,077
infrastructure issues and so on.

1225
01:22:26,317 --> 01:22:30,557
BIP-110, my main concern is none of the usual ones

1226
01:22:30,557 --> 01:22:32,937
that people talk about, I guess.

1227
01:22:33,257 --> 01:22:35,597
My main question is of scoping.

1228
01:22:35,597 --> 01:22:39,377
So BIP-110 chose to scope its action

1229
01:22:39,377 --> 01:22:41,457
as a temporary one-year software.

1230
01:22:42,057 --> 01:22:48,937
And I have discussed with Bitcoin Mechanic as to why they made that choice, and he explained it to me.

1231
01:22:49,237 --> 01:22:54,477
But I still don't agree with the idea of a temporary soft fork.

1232
01:22:54,737 --> 01:23:03,297
The other two options in my mind being a very minimal soft fork, both other options being durable, not temporary.

1233
01:23:03,717 --> 01:23:11,417
Either a minimal viable change that would satisfy everyone, like Get Together Core and NOS People and others.

1234
01:23:12,057 --> 01:23:15,797
at a round table and try to knock something out that has rough consensus,

1235
01:23:16,697 --> 01:23:21,217
maybe like the Rob Hamilton or something similar proposal. Get everyone together,

1236
01:23:21,417 --> 01:23:26,437
do something simple, not risky, that has rough consensus would have probably been my preferred

1237
01:23:26,437 --> 01:23:31,977
approach. Or try to come up with a more comprehensive solution as well that

1238
01:23:31,977 --> 01:23:39,377
maybe covers more cases that BIP 110 authors are concerned about. But the problem is that

1239
01:23:39,377 --> 01:23:44,897
temporary is hard for me. The mechanic explained to me that ultimately the logic behind the temporary

1240
01:23:44,897 --> 01:23:50,117
was that it was the only way, it seemed the most likely possible activation of the three scope,

1241
01:23:50,357 --> 01:23:57,317
minimal but long, but henceforth temporary or full complete and henceforth. The thing is that

1242
01:23:57,317 --> 01:24:04,057
softworks are so difficult to accomplish to get activated and agreement on. We don't have a recipe

1243
01:24:04,057 --> 01:24:08,997
that works every time and it seems like every time we have to write a new adventure and figure

1244
01:24:08,997 --> 01:24:14,177
out again how to activate it. And it has generally been acrimonious and difficult.

1245
01:24:14,737 --> 01:24:20,477
Cycwit, Caproot. Caproot had very large rough consensus around it. And yet, despite that

1246
01:24:20,477 --> 01:24:25,997
apparent consensus, the actual activation discussion was very acrimonious. And it went

1247
01:24:25,997 --> 01:24:31,637
on for months. And yeah, and there, I think, are still many hard feelings from certain people about

1248
01:24:31,637 --> 01:24:37,917
how it was essentially done with the speedy trial activation method. So it's so difficult to do a

1249
01:24:37,917 --> 01:24:43,117
stuff for it and i think it's actually a reasonable doubt that one could raise if we can even do one

1250
01:24:43,117 --> 01:24:49,817
now that it just seems like so much effort for a temporary one year rather than sitting down

1251
01:24:49,817 --> 01:24:56,557
hammering out a a long lasting sustainable proposal i think the and that's that's my

1252
01:24:56,557 --> 01:25:02,257
difficulty is the scope i think the the devil's advocate for that and the answer you'd get is that

1253
01:25:02,257 --> 01:25:07,317
this one is to buy us time to do exactly what you're proposing which is something with more

1254
01:25:07,317 --> 01:25:09,157
teeth that we buy

1255
01:25:09,157 --> 01:25:11,177
ourselves time to figure out what that is.

1256
01:25:11,497 --> 01:25:12,477
And also... Yeah, but it's so

1257
01:25:12,477 --> 01:25:15,117
expensive. It's like saying, well, I'll just buy

1258
01:25:15,117 --> 01:25:16,957
a Lamborghini to temporarily

1259
01:25:16,957 --> 01:25:18,057
have a solution to

1260
01:25:18,057 --> 01:25:20,417
get myself to my job.

1261
01:25:20,917 --> 01:25:23,297
It's so difficult to do a soft fork.

1262
01:25:23,577 --> 01:25:25,117
Now, maybe I'm wrong. Luke obviously

1263
01:25:25,117 --> 01:25:27,137
knows soft fork mechanics much

1264
01:25:27,137 --> 01:25:29,137
better than I do. I have no claim to

1265
01:25:29,137 --> 01:25:31,037
expertise, but I only see that they're very difficult

1266
01:25:31,037 --> 01:25:32,977
to do. And I can't imagine doing

1267
01:25:32,977 --> 01:25:34,537
all of that for a one-year one.

1268
01:25:34,817 --> 01:25:36,797
The lead-up has been already eight months.

1269
01:25:37,317 --> 01:25:42,177
I think that we're getting into a very tribal and contentious period over the next two or three.

1270
01:25:42,337 --> 01:25:46,117
All that for a soft feat for one year, it doesn't make sense to me.

1271
01:25:46,197 --> 01:25:51,957
But I think the reasoning by the BIP-110 people is that it was simply the most likely chance of success in activation.

1272
01:25:52,177 --> 01:25:56,417
I don't know, but I think it's just the temporary nature just doesn't make sense to me.

1273
01:25:57,097 --> 01:26:02,537
So what's your memory of what kind of a role BIP-148 played?

1274
01:26:02,537 --> 01:26:04,917
Because people have different memories of that.

1275
01:26:04,917 --> 01:26:22,077
And my memory of it and what seems to be Mechanic's memory of it, too, at least this is my interpretation of his interpretation of it, is that the intolerant minority soft fork actually worked pretty well.

1276
01:26:22,177 --> 01:26:27,897
And we didn't need that much support to scare miners into activating SegWit.

1277
01:26:28,137 --> 01:26:30,117
Like, what's your take on that?

1278
01:26:30,117 --> 01:26:35,157
I mean, it felt to me like a game of chicken was being played.

1279
01:26:35,157 --> 01:26:42,997
Or, you know, the two trucks driving each other on the road until you see which one gets scared and veers away from the collision.

1280
01:26:43,317 --> 01:26:54,746
You know the market decided right The price quickly shifted in favor of one of the two I haven gone back and re that history into memory

1281
01:26:54,746 --> 01:26:59,386
So I don't feel qualified to give a more complete answer off the cuff.

1282
01:26:59,706 --> 01:27:00,206
I don't know.

1283
01:27:00,386 --> 01:27:07,006
I just think that temporary is a very unlikely thing to try to do, a temporary software.

1284
01:27:07,286 --> 01:27:08,766
Hey, I could be wrong.

1285
01:27:08,766 --> 01:27:14,626
I don't have any sort of condescending or huffy stuffy thinking about it.

1286
01:27:14,926 --> 01:27:18,826
I think in general, I find it works best when I'm humble when it comes to Bitcoin.

1287
01:27:19,146 --> 01:27:20,486
You know, it's easy to be wrong.

1288
01:27:20,586 --> 01:27:21,266
It's hard to be right.

1289
01:27:21,806 --> 01:27:24,666
And often you tend to be more often right if you're right and correct.

1290
01:27:24,846 --> 01:27:28,006
In fact, if you come at it with a humble approach than if you think you know it all,

1291
01:27:28,086 --> 01:27:29,386
and that's when I fall on my face.

1292
01:27:29,546 --> 01:27:30,446
So I don't know.

1293
01:27:30,866 --> 01:27:35,826
Yeah, regardless of anyone's opinions on it, this is the soft fork that is on the table

1294
01:27:35,826 --> 01:27:36,406
right now.

1295
01:27:36,406 --> 01:27:41,806
Like this is the one that is happening in August and we'll see how it plays out.

1296
01:27:41,926 --> 01:27:43,666
I mean, I'm willing to.

1297
01:27:44,046 --> 01:27:45,306
I'm going to stay out of the fray.

1298
01:27:45,586 --> 01:27:50,926
I have no plans to be involved in the tribal mudslinging for, and I guess this is it.

1299
01:27:50,966 --> 01:27:56,346
It already cost me a lot of time and energy moderating the discussion of the BIP draft.

1300
01:27:56,466 --> 01:27:59,646
It was very, very annoying, not fun.

1301
01:27:59,846 --> 01:28:00,926
I was all alone.

1302
01:28:01,266 --> 01:28:04,046
No other BIP editors were around during that time.

1303
01:28:04,046 --> 01:28:07,886
And so, yeah, I feel like I've done my part in dealing with this bit,

1304
01:28:08,006 --> 01:28:12,226
and I don't really have an intention to take a side and be involved further,

1305
01:28:12,526 --> 01:28:13,666
and I will see what happens.

1306
01:28:13,926 --> 01:28:17,106
I mean, I will run, I plan to run a NOS node,

1307
01:28:17,326 --> 01:28:21,046
I mean a Bit.10 NOS node in addition to my other nodes,

1308
01:28:21,206 --> 01:28:22,526
and I will just see what happens.

1309
01:28:24,566 --> 01:28:28,226
Yeah, I guess, yeah, each to its own.

1310
01:28:28,386 --> 01:28:30,226
That's how Bitcoin works, and we'll all see.

1311
01:28:30,766 --> 01:28:32,746
Currently, I just run my little Fork with Core.

1312
01:28:32,746 --> 01:28:34,206
I have my own informal fork.

1313
01:28:34,386 --> 01:28:41,046
I evaluate core mergers and decide whether to accept them or modify them in my own personal fork.

1314
01:28:41,326 --> 01:28:42,986
But yeah, that's what I run up to now.

1315
01:28:43,246 --> 01:28:46,906
I basically stopped following Core's master blindly.

1316
01:28:47,066 --> 01:28:49,426
I started customizing it a few years ago already.

1317
01:28:51,346 --> 01:28:52,526
Yeah, okay.

1318
01:28:53,106 --> 01:28:59,546
So Core, is there anything else to be said about Core that we didn't cover two days ago?

1319
01:28:59,546 --> 01:29:07,946
i mean so i've had a few discussions with with core developers that i talked to and i believe

1320
01:29:07,946 --> 01:29:13,346
this solution is not to post at each other it's not the gotcha reply guy posting and i've actually

1321
01:29:13,346 --> 01:29:18,286
told a few of my friends in core that i don't think it's helpful if they do gotcha and reply

1322
01:29:18,286 --> 01:29:24,546
guy tweeting on x i think what helps is for people to and i also got caught up in that yesterday in

1323
01:29:24,546 --> 01:29:28,446
the kerfuffle about me owing review of BIP 110.

1324
01:29:28,826 --> 01:29:31,926
But it's better to actually talk to people directly.

1325
01:29:32,366 --> 01:29:34,586
And I think what solved the kerfuffle yesterday

1326
01:29:34,586 --> 01:29:36,346
was I actually sent a few private messages

1327
01:29:36,346 --> 01:29:37,566
to Bitcoin Mechanics saying,

1328
01:29:37,566 --> 01:29:42,226
hey, you know, remember, I'm not against you guys.

1329
01:29:42,366 --> 01:29:42,606
I'm not.

1330
01:29:42,726 --> 01:29:43,766
I've done my part.

1331
01:29:44,186 --> 01:29:45,266
I've tried to be fair.

1332
01:29:45,446 --> 01:29:46,726
I've tried to be neutral.

1333
01:29:46,966 --> 01:29:50,146
And I'm not messing with you guys like Datum thinks.

1334
01:29:50,286 --> 01:29:52,026
Datum had the impression I was messing around

1335
01:29:52,026 --> 01:29:52,866
with the Notscam.

1336
01:29:53,106 --> 01:29:54,126
No, that's not my intention.

1337
01:29:54,546 --> 01:30:13,346
I'm trying to be fair. I'm trying to be neutral. I'm on Team Bitcoin. And to my mind, what Team Bitcoin means in this case is I want to see multiple, robust, well-resourced, strong implementations. That includes Bitcoin Core, which is the implementation that I far and away know the best.

1338
01:30:13,346 --> 01:30:17,626
So I, you know, I have colleagues in court as they are

1339
01:30:17,626 --> 01:30:19,666
And you're trying, why are you so hostile at court?

1340
01:30:19,806 --> 01:30:21,086
Are you trying to destroy court?

1341
01:30:21,286 --> 01:30:22,366
Are you impostering suffering?

1342
01:30:22,946 --> 01:30:23,786
I'm like, no

1343
01:30:23,786 --> 01:30:27,546
I think that has had issues, very deep ones

1344
01:30:27,546 --> 01:30:30,726
I think the court hasn't come clean about it

1345
01:30:30,726 --> 01:30:32,226
They've kept an omurta

1346
01:30:32,226 --> 01:30:35,106
They've kept quiet about certain sensitive points

1347
01:30:35,106 --> 01:30:36,146
That's their choice

1348
01:30:36,146 --> 01:30:39,346
But I believe that that's contributing to the situation they're in

1349
01:30:39,346 --> 01:30:42,566
You know, sometimes you need to go down and touch bottom

1350
01:30:42,566 --> 01:30:50,786
confront yourself and that then only then can the renewal and and healing process begin of and i

1351
01:30:50,786 --> 01:30:57,706
don't want to see a weak bitcoin core a weak bitcoin core is more is wounded or it's a bitcoin

1352
01:30:57,706 --> 01:31:02,306
core is more dangerous i want to see a healthy strong bitcoin core that has healthy processes

1353
01:31:02,306 --> 01:31:08,346
and and and not skeletons in the closet that are being hidden away and so it's healthy if the truth

1354
01:31:08,346 --> 01:31:13,426
comes out, is dealt with, and then we move on, we move forward, and that involves change. Now,

1355
01:31:13,486 --> 01:31:18,986
change is something that human beings resist, me like anyone. And it took me a long time to get

1356
01:31:18,986 --> 01:31:23,526
over the idea that I would probably no longer have a future in core, particularly if I said

1357
01:31:23,526 --> 01:31:28,006
some of the things I know. But at the end of the day, you have to think about Bitcoin and not your

1358
01:31:28,006 --> 01:31:33,926
personal circumstance. And I sort of gave up on having a future in core. But being on Team Bitcoin

1359
01:31:33,926 --> 01:31:35,986
is about thinking about the overall system

1360
01:31:35,986 --> 01:31:37,446
and how Bitcoin can benefit.

1361
01:31:37,926 --> 01:31:39,606
And Bitcoin will benefit from a better core

1362
01:31:39,606 --> 01:31:42,006
just as it will benefit from better alternatives

1363
01:31:42,006 --> 01:31:43,846
to core for developers like me

1364
01:31:43,846 --> 01:31:44,886
and for node runners.

1365
01:31:46,326 --> 01:31:47,666
I'm starting to discuss

1366
01:31:47,666 --> 01:31:49,666
with people like Mike Hedbrink

1367
01:31:49,666 --> 01:31:51,366
or Jonathan Beer at

1368
01:31:51,366 --> 01:31:54,006
Maelstrom, Bitnext

1369
01:31:54,006 --> 01:31:55,446
Research, Maelstrom.

1370
01:31:56,006 --> 01:31:57,586
And I'm saying, philosophically,

1371
01:31:57,586 --> 01:31:59,586
do you have any obstacle to supporting

1372
01:31:59,586 --> 01:32:00,286
developers

1373
01:32:00,286 --> 01:32:03,766
who are working on implementations

1374
01:32:03,766 --> 01:32:07,806
other than CORD that could work in a cooperative and friendly way with CORD.

1375
01:32:07,946 --> 01:32:13,366
Not necessarily a hostile alternative, but yes, working on a competing perhaps version.

1376
01:32:13,586 --> 01:32:19,166
Besides resource and capacity, would you be philosophically against that?

1377
01:32:19,346 --> 01:32:23,866
And I'm starting to try to open minds up to the idea that we need alternatives for there to be a healthy

1378
01:32:23,866 --> 01:32:26,906
decentralization of power and a healthy ecosystem.

1379
01:32:26,906 --> 01:32:31,146
And not one where there's the dominant reference client, as we've had up to now,

1380
01:32:31,146 --> 01:32:34,426
with unhealthy processes that don't get addressed

1381
01:32:34,426 --> 01:32:37,146
because there's simply no competition forcing them to do so.

1382
01:32:38,566 --> 01:32:38,846
Hmm.

1383
01:32:39,326 --> 01:32:41,806
So since we talked two days ago,

1384
01:32:41,806 --> 01:32:45,706
I had a conversation with Dr. Jack Cruz yesterday,

1385
01:32:45,966 --> 01:32:48,346
and there's also been a Simply Bitcoin episode

1386
01:32:48,346 --> 01:32:52,826
about this, framing this as a deliberate attack on Bitcoin

1387
01:32:52,826 --> 01:32:56,626
and that powerful forces, deep state forces,

1388
01:32:56,626 --> 01:33:04,366
have infiltrated Core to accommodate spammers more and more,

1389
01:33:04,766 --> 01:33:08,466
and thereby clogging the network more and more,

1390
01:33:08,466 --> 01:33:13,146
and that this is a long-term plan to destroy Bitcoin from the inside.

1391
01:33:13,666 --> 01:33:16,426
Do you think there's any truth to those claims?

1392
01:33:16,626 --> 01:33:19,126
Or what do you say when you hear such stuff?

1393
01:33:20,706 --> 01:33:23,286
So the Harbo Not article, I did see that last night,

1394
01:33:23,286 --> 01:33:30,026
And I, in fact, sent a message to several friends on both sides of the fence about it, saying, wow, look at this.

1395
01:33:30,166 --> 01:33:31,726
I think I sent a message to Mechanic.

1396
01:33:31,786 --> 01:33:34,286
I sent a message to Mike Schmidt and Brink and so on.

1397
01:33:34,426 --> 01:33:36,966
And, you know, I saw that the Hoblornot articles recites it.

1398
01:33:37,006 --> 01:33:41,566
Now, Hoblornot is, I think his integrity should not be questioned in the way that it is.

1399
01:33:42,006 --> 01:33:43,986
He has his position.

1400
01:33:44,126 --> 01:33:45,726
He has his concerns.

1401
01:33:45,726 --> 01:33:47,546
And he's trying to find the truth.

1402
01:33:47,546 --> 01:33:55,786
And I have had quite a few private discussions with him explaining my point of view and where I don't think he's necessarily gotten it right.

1403
01:33:55,926 --> 01:33:59,206
But I understand the conclusions that he is.

1404
01:33:59,326 --> 01:34:05,126
I understand the context that he's trying to understand and glean the truth from.

1405
01:34:05,126 --> 01:34:17,306
For instance, the fact that Paradigm VC Fund was sponsoring two of the developers, AJ Towns and Marco Falke, who supported the documentation pull request change.

1406
01:34:17,546 --> 01:34:30,306
I don't think that is some sort of, yes, it looks bad, but I could be naive, but I have not yet seen an instance of funders actually saying, you need to review this.

1407
01:34:30,306 --> 01:34:35,206
I haven't seen indirect financial corruption in influence. I have seen indirect.

1408
01:34:35,326 --> 01:34:41,966
I believe I have found some cases of influence trafficking that no one knows about yet that has not come out.

1409
01:34:41,966 --> 01:34:50,906
But the ones that have been discussed, like Paradigm or those two, I don't believe that there was over-influenced trafficking via their funding.

1410
01:34:51,126 --> 01:34:57,446
I don't think that documentation change was, I mean, it made complete sense that that change made sense.

1411
01:34:57,566 --> 01:35:07,966
It was the change that made sense to do because it's a more minimal change to change the documentation when it disagrees with the code than to change the actual code and its behavior of the configuration option.

1412
01:35:07,966 --> 01:35:13,406
Changing the behavior is a much larger step that requires communication, perhaps, you know,

1413
01:35:13,406 --> 01:35:19,026
whereas just aligning the way it is described to be what it actually does actually is how,

1414
01:35:19,026 --> 01:35:21,226
it's fully the way Core would have done it.

1415
01:35:21,226 --> 01:35:34,216
Now I think that and I talked about this with Hobl and he understands that he said yes and his reply is but it a part of a process and it a chain of events This I cannot this is true

1416
01:35:34,415 --> 01:35:39,415
It's part of a chain of events that each in isolation makes sense, but together look the way it looks.

1417
01:35:39,415 --> 01:35:46,535
Now, I'm just saying that I don't think there was anything shocking or financial corruption involved in that documentation change alone.

1418
01:35:46,615 --> 01:35:49,456
Alone, it made complete sense what that change did.

1419
01:35:49,596 --> 01:35:52,316
And I don't think it's the original sin as portrayed.

1420
01:35:52,316 --> 01:35:59,796
But I see how the chain of events has people really thinking and looking for the chain of events and explanations behind it.

1421
01:35:59,976 --> 01:36:01,535
Havnolot, I think, has very high integrity.

1422
01:36:01,735 --> 01:36:06,176
I believe, I mean, he proved that when he stood up to Craig Wright and he paid a very high price.

1423
01:36:06,296 --> 01:36:10,035
Those people probably would not want to pay in their personal life standing up to Craig Wright.

1424
01:36:10,296 --> 01:36:14,676
Fik Toshi, myself, was named on a list of the lawsuit.

1425
01:36:14,816 --> 01:36:17,155
But I didn't have any financial consequences.

1426
01:36:17,275 --> 01:36:18,235
I didn't have to go to court.

1427
01:36:18,316 --> 01:36:21,356
I didn't have to find funds for lawyers and legal defense.

1428
01:36:21,356 --> 01:36:35,255
What he did is really hard. So I don't think it's fair to say that he's writing conspiracy theory or AI stuff. He's probably using AI to help his writing, certainly. But he's basically motivated to try to find out the truth. And I've tried to help guide him a little bit.

1429
01:36:35,255 --> 01:36:45,456
With Citria, we talked about last time, my main concern was, why didn't Citria actually update their watchtower method in the Clementine Bridge for the operator and change?

1430
01:36:45,596 --> 01:36:52,515
I mean, it doesn't make sense to do all that if Citria actually didn't end up wanting to use the uncapped operator.

1431
01:36:52,836 --> 01:36:57,415
Turned out, in fact, they did recently update, but it's only in testing stage.

1432
01:36:57,415 --> 01:36:59,015
It's not yet on mainnet.

1433
01:36:59,015 --> 01:37:03,856
But, you know, things like that encourage me to dig myself deeper to try to understand what's going on.

1434
01:37:03,915 --> 01:37:08,135
Because there are many gray zones and it's actually not easy to understand everything that's happened.

1435
01:37:08,535 --> 01:37:11,336
Yeah, I think we covered that two days ago.

1436
01:37:11,655 --> 01:37:12,476
You talked about this.

1437
01:37:12,476 --> 01:37:14,895
Yes, I don't know if you plan to reuse that.

1438
01:37:15,755 --> 01:37:18,275
We'll see how the edit works here.

1439
01:37:18,495 --> 01:37:19,015
But, yeah.

1440
01:37:19,495 --> 01:37:19,936
Right.

1441
01:37:20,356 --> 01:37:21,655
I'll keep most of it in.

1442
01:37:21,655 --> 01:37:39,495
But you see, the problem with Korra, I think, is that it has a tendency to circle the wagons and go after the messenger, go after the critic, go after the non-choir boy, like the Reese's thread about, again, about banning Luke, another attack on Luke.

1443
01:37:39,495 --> 01:37:50,696
I mean, Luke can be exasperating. Yesterday, I was openly and publicly discussing, you know, Luke is inflexible and he sticks with guns in a way that is not necessarily easy to deal with.

1444
01:37:50,856 --> 01:37:55,056
And I'm not saying Luke's perfect, but I don't think banning people is the answer.

1445
01:37:55,056 --> 01:38:13,316
And I think if Cora's reaction is always to sneer down, condescend, dunk, ban, try to remove any critics, make the abstainers and the non-supporters, non-loyalty, fealty, showing supporters of the crown of the court.

1446
01:38:13,316 --> 01:38:19,275
If they always pay a price for saying what they think, then I think that you have a very unhealthy system.

1447
01:38:19,495 --> 01:38:25,796
And what we want is for to complain, address the issues that is actually not really wanted to address, which is human.

1448
01:38:26,035 --> 01:38:27,135
And that will allow renewal.

1449
01:38:27,676 --> 01:38:34,936
So, you know, as long as I said last time, as long as it's deflecting and sneering and condescending and shooting the messenger, that's not going to be helpful.

1450
01:38:35,976 --> 01:38:36,976
So what do you think?

1451
01:38:36,995 --> 01:38:39,856
Right now, the topic right now is misinformation against core.

1452
01:38:39,856 --> 01:38:52,696
Well, I don't think, I think a strong core, first of all, would not be vulnerable to misinformation. And yeah, I don't want to go back over that over and over either. But yeah, there are issues.

1453
01:38:52,696 --> 01:39:00,216
I've been talking about them quite extensively with Mike Schmidt, for example, of Brink and Bitcoin Optic.

1454
01:39:00,415 --> 01:39:04,336
And he did push back on a couple of things, which I think it's fair to relay.

1455
01:39:04,475 --> 01:39:05,856
I don't know if you covered them last time.

1456
01:39:06,115 --> 01:39:09,775
Brink does support remote developers.

1457
01:39:10,556 --> 01:39:14,696
I did think that I'd even heard that you had to be in the Brink's office,

1458
01:39:14,696 --> 01:39:17,336
or you were strongly encouraged to work from the Brink office in London.

1459
01:39:17,515 --> 01:39:19,415
That is apparently not the case.

1460
01:39:19,415 --> 01:39:27,696
Indeed, as Mike pointed out to me, Brink has funded at least as many, if not more, remote developers than it has developers funded in its office.

1461
01:39:28,115 --> 01:39:35,956
The other thing is it used to be a frequent criticism of Brink that it had a monopoly of core maintainers in its office because it did have three out of four at one time.

1462
01:39:36,135 --> 01:39:37,135
So it was a fair criticism.

1463
01:39:38,356 --> 01:39:40,796
I think that has stayed decentralized.

1464
01:39:41,056 --> 01:39:42,015
It has now only two.

1465
01:39:42,196 --> 01:39:46,015
Unfortunately, one of the two has, in my opinion, much too much power within core.

1466
01:39:46,015 --> 01:40:03,056
The one who emerges more than half and probably this year two-thirds of all pull requests in Bitcoin Core is, in my opinion, a level of centralization around a lead maintainer that it would be perfectly fine if you had three or four healthy, separate, robust clients, each with a benevolent dictator.

1467
01:40:03,056 --> 01:40:10,176
but when you have one that is wants to be the reference implementation with originally 97 98

1468
01:40:10,176 --> 01:40:16,735
percent of adoption now it's maybe 75 or 80 percent adoption i don't know depends on how you count the

1469
01:40:16,735 --> 01:40:20,915
nodes then i think it becomes more of a problem when you have one dominant person who's merging

1470
01:40:20,915 --> 01:40:26,216
half to two-thirds of pull requests and who actually in this case also use names use with

1471
01:40:26,216 --> 01:40:31,775
trusted friends as proxy deputy maintainers to decide whether something is merge worthy it's

1472
01:40:31,775 --> 01:40:36,735
just a bit too centralized. And I don't think that's healthy in a dominant reference implementation

1473
01:40:36,735 --> 01:40:43,076
case. I think it's perfectly fine if you have three or four, each with a 20-25% of the market,

1474
01:40:43,216 --> 01:40:46,956
then yes, one strong leader in this one, one strong leader in that one, one strong leader in that one.

1475
01:40:46,956 --> 01:40:52,076
And then developers and node runners have options between that style or this style,

1476
01:40:52,196 --> 01:40:56,976
that leader or this leader. That's fine, but not in a dominant reference implementation. I think

1477
01:40:56,976 --> 01:40:59,576
that's quite obvious.

1478
01:41:00,956 --> 01:41:05,956
Yeah, one of the notes I have here is about BIP standards in general,

1479
01:41:06,096 --> 01:41:08,816
like with LLM written drafts.

1480
01:41:08,875 --> 01:41:10,296
What do you have to say about that?

1481
01:41:11,775 --> 01:41:12,395
With the BIPs?

1482
01:41:14,235 --> 01:41:14,755
Yeah.

1483
01:41:14,856 --> 01:41:15,475
Can you say that?

1484
01:41:15,556 --> 01:41:15,676
Yeah.

1485
01:41:17,255 --> 01:41:20,975
Suggested topic here is BIP standards with LLM written drafts.

1486
01:41:22,655 --> 01:41:23,936
Right, exactly.

1487
01:41:24,196 --> 01:41:25,436
Sorry, it's a bit noisy here.

1488
01:41:25,436 --> 01:41:29,836
run by the ocean and there's a lot of, there's a rumble of white noise coming off of the ocean.

1489
01:41:30,076 --> 01:41:34,275
So yeah, hopefully you can screen that noise off, filter it out for your listeners.

1490
01:41:34,275 --> 01:41:39,755
So in the BIPs repo, one issue that I am concerned about is historically,

1491
01:41:41,596 --> 01:41:52,556
BIP editors were quite tolerant of BIP submissions as long as they were in scope for the BIP

1492
01:41:52,556 --> 01:42:01,895
suppository. However, with the advent of AI, we're seeing overuse to abuse of AI to generate

1493
01:42:01,895 --> 01:42:10,556
bit drafts. And that has made me rethink completely. And I found myself tending to

1494
01:42:10,556 --> 01:42:18,216
prefer a stronger selection criteria, a higher bar for quality of BIPs, because otherwise,

1495
01:42:18,216 --> 01:42:21,655
it's so easy for people to generate a BIP with prompting

1496
01:42:21,655 --> 01:42:24,076
and then just send us the LLM output

1497
01:42:24,076 --> 01:42:26,936
that I think it would be, if we're not careful,

1498
01:42:27,035 --> 01:42:28,975
I think it would be quite easy for the BIPs repository

1499
01:42:28,975 --> 01:42:32,775
to be just filled with AI slop and become sort of a trash dump.

1500
01:42:33,596 --> 01:42:37,596
Now, there is some iffy, there are iffy BIPs.

1501
01:42:37,635 --> 01:42:40,296
There are BIPs of various quality already.

1502
01:42:40,296 --> 01:42:42,895
And the historical thing has been,

1503
01:42:43,035 --> 01:42:45,056
give everybody, give every BIP a number,

1504
01:42:45,356 --> 01:42:46,855
give them a number, numbers cost nothing,

1505
01:42:46,856 --> 01:42:50,956
might as well just give everything a number. But if you do that now in the age of AI,

1506
01:42:51,296 --> 01:42:54,655
you'll just find yourself dealing with all these BIPs filled

1507
01:42:54,655 --> 01:42:58,415
BIPs that are made up of LLM output with perhaps hallucinations or

1508
01:42:58,415 --> 01:43:02,635
you know, slop. And there's a

1509
01:43:02,635 --> 01:43:06,755
symmetry at the moment between the ease with which people can generate AI, LLM

1510
01:43:06,755 --> 01:43:10,356
written BIPs and throw them over the fence at us and the humans

1511
01:43:10,356 --> 01:43:14,715
will have to review them. Now, you can start to try to use AI to review

1512
01:43:14,715 --> 01:43:21,015
the AI. But I mean, the question is, where are we going with this? And I'm trying to figure out

1513
01:43:21,015 --> 01:43:27,155
the best way to handle this. I think in general, we need to raise the bar of quality acceptance

1514
01:43:27,155 --> 01:43:31,635
into the BITs repository. And there is disagreement about that. I think some of the people would

1515
01:43:31,635 --> 01:43:36,455
really prefer that we keep the bar low and just give everybody a number, make everybody happy,

1516
01:43:36,975 --> 01:43:42,876
you know, give a BIT number to the cat BIT, to the ordinal BIT, to the AI generated stuff.

1517
01:43:42,876 --> 01:43:48,076
And everybody's happy and everybody's content, except we have a BIP repository full of specs

1518
01:43:48,076 --> 01:43:54,156
written by LLMs. Is that good? Is that bad? I don't know. I personally prefer to review work

1519
01:43:54,156 --> 01:43:59,875
done by humans and not LLM output that I'm expected to fix. And BIP editors aren't necessarily

1520
01:43:59,875 --> 01:44:05,296
the reviewers of the BIP drafts. They just make sure that the BIP drafts reflect the format and

1521
01:44:05,296 --> 01:44:09,375
are in scope. But if we're not careful, we could end up with a lot of junk in the BIP repository.

1522
01:44:09,375 --> 01:44:09,955
And this worries.

1523
01:44:10,005 --> 01:44:14,805
me. And then there's a bit of a, there's some weird stuff behind the scenes in the BIPs

1524
01:44:14,805 --> 01:44:21,825
repository since about two months now. I think that there's a chance that there's going to be

1525
01:44:21,825 --> 01:44:28,985
a push once again to get Luke out, to have him removed as BIPs editor. There have been pushes

1526
01:44:28,985 --> 01:44:35,685
in 2021, 2022. And I suspect that's coming again, along with every thread in Bitcoin meta

1527
01:44:35,685 --> 01:44:39,625
about banning Luke from the GitHub Bitcoin repository.

1528
01:44:40,325 --> 01:44:41,625
But not just Luke.

1529
01:44:41,725 --> 01:44:45,165
I suspect that since over the past two years,

1530
01:44:45,305 --> 01:44:46,265
a bit more than two years,

1531
01:44:46,385 --> 01:44:49,405
there were five new editors named,

1532
01:44:49,565 --> 01:44:51,645
one of which was myself and Merch.

1533
01:44:51,725 --> 01:44:54,005
And Merch and I have been the two that have been active

1534
01:44:54,005 --> 01:44:56,705
and the others have been in appearance much less active,

1535
01:44:56,705 --> 01:44:59,545
but actually quite helpful behind the scenes

1536
01:44:59,545 --> 01:45:01,425
and discussions when it came down to,

1537
01:45:01,585 --> 01:45:03,485
let's say, not trivial decisions

1538
01:45:03,485 --> 01:45:05,345
or controversial decisions that need to be made.

1539
01:45:05,345 --> 01:45:06,985
made such as subordinates,

1540
01:45:07,105 --> 01:45:07,885
what to do with the Ordinals bit,

1541
01:45:08,105 --> 01:45:08,725
but not just.

1542
01:45:09,505 --> 01:45:11,345
And so they've actually been very helpful

1543
01:45:11,345 --> 01:45:12,625
to be able to bring to bear

1544
01:45:12,625 --> 01:45:13,905
their experience combined.

1545
01:45:14,165 --> 01:45:16,465
You know, Rose Beach from Lightning Labs

1546
01:45:16,465 --> 01:45:17,325
is brilliant.

1547
01:45:17,505 --> 01:45:19,105
Brian Bishop has his experience

1548
01:45:19,105 --> 01:45:20,465
and his approach and philosophy.

1549
01:45:20,785 --> 01:45:23,125
Ruben Thompson, who was invaluable

1550
01:45:23,125 --> 01:45:25,125
his advice and thinking

1551
01:45:25,125 --> 01:45:27,525
behind the Ordinals draft decision.

1552
01:45:27,885 --> 01:45:29,745
And so, and they're less active,

1553
01:45:30,205 --> 01:45:32,625
but I really like the team we had

1554
01:45:32,625 --> 01:45:33,585
and the dynamic we had.

1555
01:45:33,585 --> 01:45:37,665
I think if all six, including Luke, had been active, it would have been too many cooks in the kitchen.

1556
01:45:37,825 --> 01:45:41,785
As it is, just myself and Murch, sometimes I have to sit back and make sure I leave him some space.

1557
01:45:41,965 --> 01:45:46,225
I don't know how he feels, but I feel like already two who are active is actually quite a lot.

1558
01:45:46,665 --> 01:45:52,185
But there was a mailing list post by Murch where basically he said that he's the only one who's doing the work

1559
01:45:52,185 --> 01:45:58,045
over the previous months and pushing for a change of bit editors and asking for new faces.

1560
01:45:58,045 --> 01:46:08,325
And I see that he has a couple of, bought a couple of new people on who are sort of becoming active in reviewing BIPs that I imagine will be his proposals or nominations for new faces.

1561
01:46:08,665 --> 01:46:18,945
But at the end of the day, I guess what I'm expecting to see is a push to, an initiative to push out all the existing ones except perhaps him and he'd be the lead and bring in two people under his wing.

1562
01:46:19,545 --> 01:46:22,165
So I may not be long for this world,

1563
01:46:22,385 --> 01:46:24,445
though I've been very active with BIPs maintainer

1564
01:46:24,445 --> 01:46:25,705
and I often found myself alone

1565
01:46:25,705 --> 01:46:27,125
in some of the hottest moments,

1566
01:46:27,245 --> 01:46:28,665
like dealing with BIP-110,

1567
01:46:29,245 --> 01:46:30,265
dealing with BIP-54,

1568
01:46:30,565 --> 01:46:31,585
there was acrimony there,

1569
01:46:31,845 --> 01:46:33,365
dealing with the cat and so on.

1570
01:46:33,525 --> 01:46:36,145
But, you know, when you close BIPs like Ordnose,

1571
01:46:36,145 --> 01:46:38,745
I think there is some latent background pushback

1572
01:46:38,745 --> 01:46:40,085
where people are angry and upset

1573
01:46:40,085 --> 01:46:43,305
and maybe they want to see you also oust in the hands

1574
01:46:43,305 --> 01:46:44,665
of the BIP editors,

1575
01:46:44,805 --> 01:46:46,325
only one, maybe one and a half,

1576
01:46:46,405 --> 01:46:47,785
were actually in favor of BIPs.

1577
01:46:47,785 --> 01:46:50,965
So out of sticks, that's why the Ornos BIP was closed.

1578
01:46:51,225 --> 01:46:53,445
But, you know, then you might have some underground pressure

1579
01:46:53,445 --> 01:46:57,185
welling up to have those people who were against the Ornos BIP.

1580
01:46:57,605 --> 01:46:59,365
Well, you know, maybe, maybe not.

1581
01:46:59,465 --> 01:47:00,365
I cannot say.

1582
01:47:00,685 --> 01:47:04,625
But there definitely is a movement afoot for change in the BIPs repository.

1583
01:47:05,005 --> 01:47:05,885
And it's a little bit weird.

1584
01:47:05,985 --> 01:47:06,645
It's a little bit creepy.

1585
01:47:06,905 --> 01:47:08,705
I don't like that kind of drama.

1586
01:47:09,165 --> 01:47:12,805
But at the end of the day, you know, I'm perfectly happy to move on from the BIPs

1587
01:47:12,805 --> 01:47:15,245
and maybe get back to protocol code development,

1588
01:47:15,245 --> 01:47:21,845
reviewing core, maybe running a client that reviews every emerging core and then decides

1589
01:47:21,845 --> 01:47:27,245
whether or not to accept them as is or with modifications or not at all into a fork of core.

1590
01:47:29,845 --> 01:47:35,985
I've been talking with all the different, I've been talking with Libetcon, great team,

1591
01:47:36,385 --> 01:47:40,745
met Eric, hung out with them in Vegas, talking a lot with Noughts, Noughts people,

1592
01:47:40,745 --> 01:47:43,625
talking with the BTC Commons people.

1593
01:47:43,945 --> 01:47:45,185
And there's also BTCD.

1594
01:47:45,545 --> 01:47:47,305
And there are two other core developers

1595
01:47:47,305 --> 01:47:48,685
who are no longer active in Core

1596
01:47:48,685 --> 01:47:52,105
who I believe are actively working on their fork

1597
01:47:52,105 --> 01:47:53,345
or implementation,

1598
01:47:53,625 --> 01:47:54,905
completely different implementation of Core

1599
01:47:54,905 --> 01:47:55,845
of the Bitcoin plant.

1600
01:47:56,085 --> 01:47:57,585
So there is movement afoot.

1601
01:47:58,405 --> 01:48:01,025
I don't know if I want to join any of those projects.

1602
01:48:01,125 --> 01:48:02,885
At the moment, I don't see one that

1603
01:48:02,885 --> 01:48:05,225
there's production ready as well

1604
01:48:05,225 --> 01:48:07,545
that wanted to get started on something.

1605
01:48:07,765 --> 01:48:09,725
At the moment, I have not joined any.

1606
01:48:09,725 --> 01:48:12,845
and at this time I don't know if I plan to.

1607
01:48:13,065 --> 01:48:16,665
So I'm observing and keeping my eye on the BIPs

1608
01:48:16,665 --> 01:48:18,045
and on BIPingPort most of all,

1609
01:48:18,285 --> 01:48:19,345
because that's what I know.

1610
01:48:20,165 --> 01:48:23,565
Could one say that the BIP repository has a spam problem?

1611
01:48:25,965 --> 01:48:26,725
Oh, it definitely does.

1612
01:48:27,025 --> 01:48:31,785
I would say that three quarters of the BIPs

1613
01:48:31,785 --> 01:48:35,525
that are submitted nowadays are AI generated.

1614
01:48:36,485 --> 01:48:38,325
They're just a result of prompting.

1615
01:48:38,325 --> 01:48:41,245
perhaps sophisticated prompting,

1616
01:48:41,665 --> 01:48:43,225
some ideas are better than others.

1617
01:48:44,425 --> 01:48:45,505
But it's AI.

1618
01:48:46,045 --> 01:48:47,825
There are really intelligent,

1619
01:48:48,305 --> 01:48:49,505
there are good ways to use AI

1620
01:48:49,505 --> 01:48:51,245
and there are bad ways,

1621
01:48:51,345 --> 01:48:52,425
abusive ways to use AI.

1622
01:48:53,205 --> 01:48:55,285
And the filters aren't working

1623
01:48:55,285 --> 01:48:57,625
as far as the BIP repository goes?

1624
01:48:58,045 --> 01:48:59,625
Well, yeah.

1625
01:48:59,725 --> 01:49:01,285
I mean, the filter has often been me

1626
01:49:01,285 --> 01:49:03,805
and it's not necessarily a fun position to be.

1627
01:49:04,405 --> 01:49:05,725
It's not necessarily nice

1628
01:49:05,725 --> 01:49:06,825
to be the guy who has to say,

1629
01:49:06,825 --> 01:49:09,425
And yeah, this is AI Slop and closes it.

1630
01:49:09,545 --> 01:49:11,105
And it doesn't make you a popular guy.

1631
01:49:11,305 --> 01:49:13,265
And, you know, there's a philosophical difference.

1632
01:49:13,365 --> 01:49:16,365
Do we want to be stricter about selection into the BIPs repository?

1633
01:49:16,645 --> 01:49:19,245
Or do we want to be, hey, a number for you, a number for you?

1634
01:49:19,785 --> 01:49:20,725
Everybody gets a number.

1635
01:49:20,865 --> 01:49:21,445
It's number time.

1636
01:49:21,445 --> 01:49:23,145
And that's traditionally how it's been.

1637
01:49:23,285 --> 01:49:25,585
It's quite easy to get a number and get a BIP.

1638
01:49:25,825 --> 01:49:29,945
But nowadays, with the AI Slop, making it easy to throw hot, steaming turds over the fence at us.

1639
01:49:30,205 --> 01:49:35,685
Yeah, it calls into question, at least to my mind, the question of quality going forward

1640
01:49:35,685 --> 01:49:37,705
and what the future of the BIPs repository should be.

1641
01:49:37,865 --> 01:49:38,085
Yeah.

1642
01:49:38,325 --> 01:49:40,125
On to the next subject.

1643
01:49:40,525 --> 01:49:41,845
Where are we here?

1644
01:49:42,005 --> 01:49:43,725
What else do we need to cover here?

1645
01:49:44,125 --> 01:49:46,345
I mean, back to court real quick.

1646
01:49:46,505 --> 01:49:47,885
There are changes going on.

1647
01:49:48,445 --> 01:49:50,545
They're not loud, advertised changes.

1648
01:49:50,905 --> 01:49:53,445
But, you know, well, obviously, Gloria stepped down.

1649
01:49:54,345 --> 01:49:59,285
But a quieter change that perhaps is as important,

1650
01:50:00,165 --> 01:50:02,625
if we want to say that if Gloria's departure was important,

1651
01:50:02,765 --> 01:50:04,605
then this would be, I think, equally so or more so.

1652
01:50:04,605 --> 01:50:09,865
I recently learned that the CEO of Chaincode sat down when I was not aware.

1653
01:50:10,105 --> 01:50:15,345
I don't know what he is doing now, perhaps moving into AI like everybody else is.

1654
01:50:15,705 --> 01:50:18,845
But yes, there is a new CEO of Chaincode Labs.

1655
01:50:19,485 --> 01:50:28,885
So the person who was the CEO for a long time was one of the proponents of the diversity, equity, inclusion sort of thing.

1656
01:50:29,065 --> 01:50:30,045
So I don't know.

1657
01:50:30,145 --> 01:50:32,225
I don't know if this is part of an evolution.

1658
01:50:32,225 --> 01:50:33,425
Soft changes.

1659
01:50:33,425 --> 01:50:50,463
personally as we discussed previously I think there an issue of trust by the outer community in CORD court has lost some of their trust and the way to restore that trust is probably not with quiet evolutions but but

1660
01:50:50,463 --> 01:50:55,423
coming out saying hey we screwed up bear yourself say here's our skeletons in the closet

1661
01:50:55,423 --> 01:51:02,243
come clean me a culpa we we we messed up and here's what we're going to do moving forward

1662
01:51:02,243 --> 01:51:11,123
But I don't think Core is going to do that because doing so would require probably changes that Core doesn't want to do or some people in Core aren't agreed to.

1663
01:51:11,283 --> 01:51:12,063
So I don't know.

1664
01:51:12,163 --> 01:51:16,403
I think it's something that people in Core are thinking about as I talk quite a lot with some people in Bitcoin Core.

1665
01:51:16,503 --> 01:51:17,143
I don't know.

1666
01:51:17,503 --> 01:51:18,503
There's a lot of resistance.

1667
01:51:18,923 --> 01:51:28,503
And probably at the end of the day, if I continue working on the protocol, it will be either mostly with the BIFs or when that comes to an end and then maybe with a maybe launch my own client.

1668
01:51:28,823 --> 01:51:30,583
I'm not particularly eager to do that.

1669
01:51:30,883 --> 01:51:31,623
It's a lot of work.

1670
01:51:31,623 --> 01:51:35,483
But there definitely seems to be users who would like to see that.

1671
01:51:37,363 --> 01:51:38,103
Team Bitcoin.

1672
01:51:39,683 --> 01:51:40,083
Yeah.

1673
01:51:40,203 --> 01:51:41,883
Have you heard of the Bitcoin commons?

1674
01:51:42,523 --> 01:51:42,883
Oh, yes.

1675
01:51:42,923 --> 01:51:43,943
I've talked to them quite a lot.

1676
01:51:44,123 --> 01:51:44,263
Uh-huh.

1677
01:51:44,483 --> 01:51:44,683
Yeah.

1678
01:51:44,823 --> 01:51:45,043
Yeah.

1679
01:51:45,323 --> 01:51:46,203
I've talked to them.

1680
01:51:46,723 --> 01:51:46,903
Yeah.

1681
01:51:46,983 --> 01:51:48,243
I'm in their group.

1682
01:51:48,963 --> 01:51:50,623
Up to date on what's going on.

1683
01:51:52,203 --> 01:51:52,603
Yeah.

1684
01:51:52,723 --> 01:51:54,043
I think this is all good.

1685
01:51:54,303 --> 01:51:58,563
And we want to encourage these different initiatives.

1686
01:51:58,563 --> 01:52:05,463
I don't know which, if any, will become a sustainable, robust, well-resourced alternative for people.

1687
01:52:05,943 --> 01:52:09,023
For now, in my mind, Bitcoin Core is the only game in town.

1688
01:52:09,603 --> 01:52:11,503
They have all the developers, or most of them.

1689
01:52:11,663 --> 01:52:17,203
Libitcoin has two who are funded, I think, maybe three soon, plus Eric.

1690
01:52:17,463 --> 01:52:18,663
So that's a pretty good team.

1691
01:52:18,783 --> 01:52:19,623
That's a pretty good start.

1692
01:52:20,203 --> 01:52:26,103
Notts apparently has, I mean, OpenSats has always agreed to fund Notts's office, but no one has applied, as I explained before.

1693
01:52:26,103 --> 01:52:29,523
but apparently there are other funders who are stepping in as well,

1694
01:52:29,663 --> 01:52:30,743
and maybe Notts will.

1695
01:52:31,543 --> 01:52:35,483
I would like to see Notts also be robust and not be just Luke,

1696
01:52:35,523 --> 01:52:37,483
and I think Luke would like it to not be just Luke.

1697
01:52:37,683 --> 01:52:38,983
He's got a lot on his plate, Luke.

1698
01:52:39,623 --> 01:52:42,503
Or she Notts, he still reviews for development,

1699
01:52:42,783 --> 01:52:45,643
and he still submits pull requests into Bitcoin Core,

1700
01:52:45,923 --> 01:52:47,183
unless they ban him finally,

1701
01:52:47,403 --> 01:52:50,683
which I think would actually probably be a foot gun for Bort to do so,

1702
01:52:50,743 --> 01:52:53,763
but that's a minority position, I fear.

1703
01:52:53,763 --> 01:52:59,343
But yes, Bitcoin needs more developers, not fewer.

1704
01:52:59,603 --> 01:53:03,923
I was shocked when Adam Back wrote that Bitcoin Core doesn't need your contribution.

1705
01:53:04,263 --> 01:53:07,083
Well, Bitcoin Core does need more developers of all kinds.

1706
01:53:07,303 --> 01:53:12,563
Bitcoin Core, Bitcoin generally, Knox does, Libbit on it, VTCD, Calvin Kim.

1707
01:53:12,643 --> 01:53:19,343
I think we'd love to have developers join him working on VTCD as well as U3XO and Floresta,

1708
01:53:19,543 --> 01:53:21,843
the client that integrates U3XO.

1709
01:53:21,843 --> 01:53:32,683
We need more resources, more people, not fewer, and not necessarily only loyalists or people who are, you know, following whatever the dictates are from certain court.

1710
01:53:32,883 --> 01:53:37,603
To me, those are obvious observations, but maybe not so obvious in the minds of people who disagree.

1711
01:53:37,943 --> 01:53:38,423
That's fair.

1712
01:53:38,423 --> 01:53:52,563
Yeah, I mean, regardless of how this whole thing plays out with BIP-110, I will respect the people who eat the humble pie afterwards, regardless of what happens.

1713
01:53:54,443 --> 01:54:02,203
Yeah, if you can admit that you were wrong, mea colpa, as you say, that's a sign of strength.

1714
01:54:03,223 --> 01:54:03,743
Absolutely.

1715
01:54:03,743 --> 01:54:10,483
It seems that, I mean, there are some very sensitive things that people feel they cannot say inside of court.

1716
01:54:10,803 --> 01:54:19,243
But the problem is that people, I think people feel in their tummy that there's something that's being covered up or hidden or just not talked about.

1717
01:54:19,643 --> 01:54:21,383
And, you know, and that doesn't help.

1718
01:54:21,523 --> 01:54:22,823
I don't think that helps court.

1719
01:54:22,923 --> 01:54:23,763
I don't think that helps big.

1720
01:54:24,283 --> 01:54:28,543
But it does protect certain people who have made certain choices for better or worse.

1721
01:54:28,563 --> 01:54:30,323
And I'm not here to condemn or judge.

1722
01:54:30,323 --> 01:54:37,383
I'm observing that I think it's not helping Bitcoin Core come into a renewal.

1723
01:54:37,703 --> 01:54:42,143
I mean, even Bitcoin Core, I think, has faced a shortage of new talent in their pipeline.

1724
01:54:42,383 --> 01:54:43,023
I have heard that.

1725
01:54:43,163 --> 01:54:43,723
I believe it.

1726
01:54:43,903 --> 01:54:45,903
AI is a hot new thing.

1727
01:54:46,103 --> 01:54:49,423
All the developers are looking at AI as where they could make their fortune.

1728
01:54:49,683 --> 01:54:51,103
Bitcoin is in the bear market.

1729
01:54:51,403 --> 01:54:54,563
Even here in El Salvador, it feels like everything is pivoted to AI.

1730
01:54:54,563 --> 01:54:55,063
No, no.

1731
01:54:55,303 --> 01:54:59,483
Bitcoin is kind of like the old leftovers in the fridge that nobody wants to eat anymore.

1732
01:54:59,483 --> 01:55:07,363
I don't know. I'm using only Bitcoin. I'm paying a high price in time and energy to use only Bitcoin.

1733
01:55:07,523 --> 01:55:11,863
I really try to I don't even have a bank card anymore. Now I have a new virtual card. Thank

1734
01:55:11,863 --> 01:55:16,043
goodness. So I can pay for my Starlink. Thanks to thanks to someone in the Bitcoin space who helped

1735
01:55:16,043 --> 01:55:21,663
me out. But yeah, I'm trying to increase Bitcoin adoption, use only Bitcoin as money, not as any

1736
01:55:21,663 --> 01:55:27,083
digital asset, not only a savings as money every day. I pay for my breakfast. I paid for my coffee.

1737
01:55:27,083 --> 01:55:29,103
I paid for my Starlink, everything using Bitcoin.

1738
01:55:29,363 --> 01:55:31,283
Price up, price down, I use Bitcoin.

1739
01:55:31,783 --> 01:55:34,263
This is the way, as we say, absolutely.

1740
01:55:35,103 --> 01:55:36,703
It's not an easy path.

1741
01:55:36,883 --> 01:55:41,363
It's definitely on the bleeding edge, even here in El Salvador, even here in Bitcoin

1742
01:55:41,363 --> 01:55:47,143
Beach, where it's trivial to pay everything with Bitcoin and Bivoli Beach, thanks to the

1743
01:55:47,143 --> 01:55:52,063
great efforts of the Bitcoin Beach team that have so far mostly paid off.

1744
01:55:52,063 --> 01:55:57,563
I mean, last bear market, I saw some merchants reducing their desire to accept Bitcoin.

1745
01:55:57,943 --> 01:56:01,883
But then when the price started coming back up, we got them back opened up again to accepting Bitcoin.

1746
01:56:02,143 --> 01:56:05,923
This time, I don't see merchants shutting down Bitcoin payments.

1747
01:56:06,043 --> 01:56:07,723
It seems to be more sustainable this time.

1748
01:56:07,983 --> 01:56:09,803
So far, we're at the start of the bear market.

1749
01:56:10,003 --> 01:56:11,323
We may not be at the bottom yet.

1750
01:56:11,383 --> 01:56:13,883
I suspect we are not, but I am not a trader.

1751
01:56:14,063 --> 01:56:14,643
I do not know.

1752
01:56:15,603 --> 01:56:20,063
I mean, I just see what the psychological effect is on the merchants here who accept Bitcoin.

1753
01:56:20,063 --> 01:56:30,563
I mean, if we compare this to six, seven years ago, I mean, now you can pay with Bitcoin at almost all the Bitcoin conferences.

1754
01:56:31,083 --> 01:56:36,163
Like they have B2C pay server terminals set up for NFC payments and whatnot.

1755
01:56:36,163 --> 01:56:46,723
And also, like in the early years of Bitcoin, they tried to orange pill and Bitcoinize some places.

1756
01:56:46,723 --> 01:56:52,263
Arnhem in the Netherlands, for instance, and then that sort of faded away, but now it's

1757
01:56:52,263 --> 01:56:59,683
coming back again. It feels like it's slow, but it's robust. I mean, Madeira is not losing

1758
01:56:59,683 --> 01:57:05,823
any Bitcoin merchants. They keep growing. El Salvador, as you say. Prague, it's very

1759
01:57:05,823 --> 01:57:23,601
easy to live on Bitcoin in Prague So it is happening It just that people the way I predict hyper looks like in Europe at least it like I traveled around quite a bit in the early 90s so not to quite close to the fall of

1760
01:57:23,601 --> 01:57:24,601
the Berlin Wall.

1761
01:57:24,601 --> 01:57:29,681
And back then, I mean, you couldn't speak English in Germany or France or Spain.

1762
01:57:29,681 --> 01:57:32,801
Like they all spoke their own language exclusively.

1763
01:57:32,801 --> 01:57:33,801
And...

1764
01:57:33,801 --> 01:57:34,801
Territorial facts.

1765
01:57:34,801 --> 01:57:35,801
Territorial facts.

1766
01:57:35,801 --> 01:57:36,261
Territorial facts.

1767
01:57:36,641 --> 01:57:39,021
Cool. So you saw what's his...

1768
01:57:39,021 --> 01:57:43,801
November 9, 89. It was cold as hell that night.

1769
01:57:44,021 --> 01:57:44,381
Cool.

1770
01:57:45,121 --> 01:57:46,381
I was standing on the wall.

1771
01:57:46,501 --> 01:57:47,201
That is awesome.

1772
01:57:47,621 --> 01:57:50,161
I lived in Berlin back then, West Berlin.

1773
01:57:51,121 --> 01:57:53,161
What's his name looking for freedom?

1774
01:57:53,561 --> 01:57:57,801
David Hasselhoff. Yes. I love that David Hasselhoff was there.

1775
01:57:59,221 --> 01:58:01,401
Yeah. Well, he was a star in Germany.

1776
01:58:01,401 --> 01:58:09,561
Well, to continue the analogy, so the younger generations, they all speak English, like all throughout Europe.

1777
01:58:09,821 --> 01:58:14,141
And even my Swedish daughter speaks English with her Swedish friends.

1778
01:58:14,621 --> 01:58:15,481
It's just happening.

1779
01:58:15,961 --> 01:58:17,981
And I think Bitcoin adoption is similar.

1780
01:58:18,361 --> 01:58:26,121
It's like the older generations don't speak Bitcoin, but the younger generations do, the ones that grew up with Sats.

1781
01:58:26,121 --> 01:58:32,301
So I think that's how it plays out, reminiscent of that, rather than just a fast thing.

1782
01:58:32,461 --> 01:58:34,541
It takes a couple of generations, probably.

1783
01:58:35,561 --> 01:58:36,521
I hope so.

1784
01:58:36,621 --> 01:58:40,081
Here in El Salvador, they're beginning to teach Bitcoin in schools.

1785
01:58:41,001 --> 01:58:43,821
At least that's what I hear the Bitcoin office talking about.

1786
01:58:43,981 --> 01:58:45,581
I have friends with children.

1787
01:58:46,581 --> 01:58:50,701
They haven't seen that yet in practice, but I hope it's coming because I agree.

1788
01:58:50,701 --> 01:58:53,741
the emphasis here in El Salvador is very much on education

1789
01:58:53,741 --> 01:58:55,881
at the level of the children for a better

1790
01:58:55,881 --> 01:58:58,061
future because that is where the change

1791
01:58:58,061 --> 01:58:59,161
needs to happen, absolutely.

1792
01:58:59,501 --> 01:58:59,701
Yes.

1793
01:59:01,161 --> 01:59:02,641
What else haven't we covered?

1794
01:59:02,981 --> 01:59:05,041
I mean, it feels like it's harder and harder.

1795
01:59:05,141 --> 01:59:06,241
When I was going through all these

1796
01:59:06,241 --> 01:59:10,141
virtual car companies that were

1797
01:59:10,141 --> 01:59:11,641
off-ramps for

1798
01:59:11,641 --> 01:59:13,761
using Bitcoin for paying

1799
01:59:13,761 --> 01:59:15,781
things like credit card, several had

1800
01:59:15,781 --> 01:59:17,241
shut down their services.

1801
01:59:17,581 --> 01:59:19,761
It feels like things are going in the wrong way.

1802
01:59:19,761 --> 01:59:28,621
We're heading towards more surveillance, more dystopia, more regulation against wallets and self-custody and using your Bitcoin freely.

1803
01:59:28,861 --> 01:59:33,361
The world is definitely, it feels like it's heading in a very wrong direction.

1804
01:59:33,761 --> 01:59:41,681
As if the COVID horror, I really felt horror when I feel horror when I think again about the COVID measures.

1805
01:59:42,441 --> 01:59:44,561
I feel like they want to come back to that.

1806
01:59:44,641 --> 01:59:45,621
They want to bring that back.

1807
01:59:45,621 --> 01:59:51,381
But the only obstacle probably is instilling fear in the population to comply.

1808
01:59:51,761 --> 01:59:53,501
They need to find a way to scare us.

1809
01:59:54,781 --> 01:59:57,701
Not me, because I never complied, but the general population.

1810
01:59:58,121 --> 02:00:02,261
And I really fear they're going to try to ramp this back up with a digital ID.

1811
02:00:02,461 --> 02:00:04,401
It's obvious the direction that we're going.

1812
02:00:04,981 --> 02:00:09,661
KYC AML compliance here in El Salvador has gone up radically.

1813
02:00:09,941 --> 02:00:11,121
It's really getting hardcore.

1814
02:00:11,121 --> 02:00:18,341
I needed help from friends at a fintech startup yesterday to get my virtual card activated

1815
02:00:18,341 --> 02:00:20,561
to route around some of these regulations.

1816
02:00:20,721 --> 02:00:26,121
They did some magic in their app to route around some things because, yeah, it's getting

1817
02:00:26,121 --> 02:00:26,401
harder.

1818
02:00:26,541 --> 02:00:34,181
And the new compliance KYC providers are using adaptive AI intelligence, which is ridiculous.

1819
02:00:34,381 --> 02:00:36,621
Why don't they just call it artificial AI intelligence?

1820
02:00:36,861 --> 02:00:38,161
They're going to call it AI intelligence.

1821
02:00:38,161 --> 02:00:40,041
But do they read their own copy?

1822
02:00:40,821 --> 02:00:49,081
But yeah, and AI is probably not going to make things easier for people living on the frontier like you and I and using money to use our Bitcoin.

1823
02:00:49,341 --> 02:00:52,201
I think it's going to be harder and harder to integrate with the fiat system.

1824
02:00:52,461 --> 02:00:53,521
They're going to shut it down.

1825
02:00:53,701 --> 02:00:54,761
I hope I'm wrong.

1826
02:00:55,261 --> 02:01:03,181
El Salvador passed laws to help enable Bitcoin banks a year and a half, two years ago, a year and a half ago to great fanfare.

1827
02:01:03,601 --> 02:01:05,241
The Bitcoin office worked hard on those laws.

1828
02:01:05,241 --> 02:01:07,561
I don't think I've seen any new Bitcoin banks.

1829
02:01:07,561 --> 02:01:10,361
I could be wrong, but I feel like it's going the wrong way.

1830
02:01:10,601 --> 02:01:15,581
It's all AI and attracting investment and construction and, you know, schools.

1831
02:01:15,741 --> 02:01:17,181
Those are all important things.

1832
02:01:17,741 --> 02:01:19,341
I don't deny that.

1833
02:01:19,521 --> 02:01:21,381
But Bitcoin itself has me worried.

1834
02:01:21,921 --> 02:01:24,401
It's going to be a tough fight against the final boss.

1835
02:01:24,561 --> 02:01:27,521
I think we're still, we haven't seen anything yet.

1836
02:01:27,681 --> 02:01:28,281
I hope I'm wrong.

1837
02:01:29,121 --> 02:01:31,201
I mean, there's goods and bads.

1838
02:01:31,481 --> 02:01:34,321
There are some new cards and stuff available.

1839
02:01:34,321 --> 02:01:39,401
I guess it depends on what country you're in, where these companies are in.

1840
02:01:39,921 --> 02:01:42,461
I know there's one in Shanghai.

1841
02:01:43,881 --> 02:01:46,041
I'm losing my train of thought here.

1842
02:01:50,401 --> 02:01:51,081
Damn it.

1843
02:01:52,001 --> 02:01:53,181
There's a handful.

1844
02:01:53,341 --> 02:01:56,241
There's one called Two Fiat and one called Freedomia.

1845
02:01:56,501 --> 02:01:57,581
They work pretty well.

1846
02:01:57,701 --> 02:01:59,661
You can top them up with Bitcoin and use them.

1847
02:01:59,801 --> 02:02:01,381
And I know there are others as well.

1848
02:02:01,381 --> 02:02:07,121
So at the same time, things like this are coming.

1849
02:02:07,481 --> 02:02:09,441
Then again, they are all transitory.

1850
02:02:11,061 --> 02:02:17,501
The real deal is when people start accepting Bitcoin for their goods and services and stops complying.

1851
02:02:17,681 --> 02:02:19,281
That's what needs to happen.

1852
02:02:19,561 --> 02:02:21,701
And people need to understand.

1853
02:02:21,841 --> 02:02:25,341
I just hope that they figure it out before everything else goes to shit.

1854
02:02:25,461 --> 02:02:27,301
Because everything else is going to shit.

1855
02:02:28,661 --> 02:02:30,461
People need to ask to be paid in Bitcoin.

1856
02:02:30,461 --> 02:02:38,541
You know, I was a grantee for four years at one of the Bitcoin grant institutions.

1857
02:02:39,201 --> 02:02:43,801
And they actually, I had to affirm that I wanted to be paid in Bitcoin because they kept nudging me.

1858
02:02:43,841 --> 02:02:47,461
Are you sure you don't want to be paid in dollars or maybe half and half?

1859
02:02:47,521 --> 02:02:49,141
I'm like, no, pay me in Bitcoin.

1860
02:02:49,321 --> 02:02:50,741
Yeah, and that's just ridiculous.

1861
02:02:51,181 --> 02:02:51,741
Oh, Singapore.

1862
02:02:52,121 --> 02:02:52,521
Singapore.

1863
02:02:52,781 --> 02:02:55,461
They're set up in Singapore, I think, in one of these card companies.

1864
02:02:55,761 --> 02:02:59,721
So there are, you know, different rules for different jurisdictions.

1865
02:02:59,721 --> 02:03:03,641
So as long as we don't have a global government, I think it's...

1866
02:03:03,641 --> 02:03:09,901
Well, I mean, when you see how they're all getting the same mandates for COVID and now for digital ID at the same time, you really wonder.

1867
02:03:10,321 --> 02:03:16,121
These leaders are just, you know, it does very much look like they're just employees working for the same boss.

1868
02:03:16,561 --> 02:03:27,741
You know, Macron and whoever is the new prime minister of England and Spain and Germany, they're all taking the same marching orders, quite obviously, whether now or before with COVID.

1869
02:03:27,741 --> 02:03:32,741
So there's something going on, you know, World Economic Forum or whatnot.

1870
02:03:32,741 --> 02:03:48,019
But you know in the US it seems like these card companies they either work in the US and not elsewhere or they work elsewhere but not in the US So there I mean yeah we need to decentralize power and avoid this one world order as much as we can And to me that just obvious but yeah

1871
02:03:49,239 --> 02:03:53,699
Yeah, resist, don't comply, brush your teeth and live your life.

1872
02:03:54,119 --> 02:03:55,019
Like this is the way.

1873
02:03:55,159 --> 02:03:56,259
Use banking soda instead of toothpaste.

1874
02:03:56,719 --> 02:03:57,379
Yeah, absolutely.

1875
02:03:57,859 --> 02:04:00,559
But you know, whether in Bitcoin, within Bitcoin development,

1876
02:04:01,039 --> 02:04:03,539
within Bitcoin mining, we want to decentralize.

1877
02:04:03,639 --> 02:04:05,879
Decentralize the power, decentralize the control.

1878
02:04:05,879 --> 02:04:08,639
social attacks are an obvious attack vector,

1879
02:04:08,939 --> 02:04:10,379
but, you know, as are others.

1880
02:04:10,639 --> 02:04:13,499
So, decentralized and mining hash rate,

1881
02:04:14,019 --> 02:04:15,899
mine, I definitely want to get into mining.

1882
02:04:15,959 --> 02:04:17,879
I'm building a mining facility at the moment.

1883
02:04:18,099 --> 02:04:20,599
I hope I can get everything set up

1884
02:04:20,599 --> 02:04:21,959
before things really go bad.

1885
02:04:22,179 --> 02:04:24,479
I want to be completely off the grid up there

1886
02:04:24,479 --> 02:04:25,459
at the Citadel.

1887
02:04:25,659 --> 02:04:26,779
I mean, I am off the grid now,

1888
02:04:26,859 --> 02:04:28,299
but I don't generate enough power.

1889
02:04:28,499 --> 02:04:29,999
So I'm increasing my capacity.

1890
02:04:30,219 --> 02:04:31,239
Maybe you can hook,

1891
02:04:31,479 --> 02:04:33,179
maybe you can leech power

1892
02:04:33,179 --> 02:04:34,799
leach power from the

1893
02:04:34,799 --> 02:04:37,599
power line that they're building over your house.

1894
02:04:37,999 --> 02:04:39,519
Yeah, they've started, there's a test

1895
02:04:39,519 --> 02:04:41,359
signal inside of them. I'm measuring current

1896
02:04:41,359 --> 02:04:43,499
with my radio frequency meter.

1897
02:04:43,659 --> 02:04:45,159
Yeah, the bullshit-o-meter, yes.

1898
02:04:46,019 --> 02:04:47,499
The tri-field, I have the tri-field.

1899
02:04:47,879 --> 02:04:49,479
Yeah, no, I see current is flowing

1900
02:04:49,479 --> 02:04:51,139
but it's very low current.

1901
02:04:51,939 --> 02:04:53,299
There's electrical but no magnetic.

1902
02:04:53,779 --> 02:04:55,479
So they have test current flowing

1903
02:04:55,479 --> 02:04:57,619
but it's not quite, they're going to wrap up

1904
02:04:57,619 --> 02:04:59,499
I think over the next year. I'll be keeping

1905
02:04:59,499 --> 02:05:01,339
tabs on that. Hopefully the

1906
02:05:01,339 --> 02:05:06,219
electromagnetic radiation coming off power lines on the cell tower in the town below,

1907
02:05:06,359 --> 02:05:09,739
which is a beautiful town on the central main street, is really high.

1908
02:05:10,219 --> 02:05:15,779
And I don't know if I should publicize, like put up a video showing how high it is where

1909
02:05:15,779 --> 02:05:16,859
people are walking on the street.

1910
02:05:16,859 --> 02:05:21,419
But yeah, it's definitely not a priority at the moment.

1911
02:05:22,039 --> 02:05:24,359
People say when it comes to EMF.

1912
02:05:24,639 --> 02:05:24,839
Yeah.

1913
02:05:25,079 --> 02:05:25,739
Step by step.

1914
02:05:26,059 --> 02:05:31,199
Have you looked into hash renting and this whole thing that you can mine without

1915
02:05:31,199 --> 02:05:33,239
without actually running ASICs?

1916
02:05:34,379 --> 02:05:36,399
Yeah, I want to give it a thought.

1917
02:05:36,499 --> 02:05:37,439
I haven't done so yet.

1918
02:05:37,799 --> 02:05:39,939
I figured I'm going to try that roughly around the same time

1919
02:05:39,939 --> 02:05:41,179
as I switched my...

1920
02:05:41,179 --> 02:05:46,939
I have one node that is not running on a typical directly...

1921
02:05:46,939 --> 02:05:49,319
Like, all my nodes, they just run on devices.

1922
02:05:49,479 --> 02:05:51,759
But I have one that I bought, which is the Startline Labs,

1923
02:05:51,799 --> 02:05:52,419
to try it out.

1924
02:05:52,599 --> 02:05:53,479
And it's pretty cool.

1925
02:05:53,479 --> 02:05:56,199
And I'm probably going to switch that one over to BIP-110

1926
02:05:56,199 --> 02:06:00,099
just to have one BIP-110 node running and see how that goes.

1927
02:06:00,099 --> 02:06:04,119
And at the same time, I'd probably like to try some of that hashrate stuff just to give it a shot.

1928
02:06:04,439 --> 02:06:06,579
For the moment, I have my own little collection of miners.

1929
02:06:06,939 --> 02:06:16,219
It's very small, but it's enough to drain off excess solar power when my batteries are full during the middle of the day when the sun is shining, which is how I'm probably using it.

1930
02:06:16,279 --> 02:06:20,139
I'm using excess solar to mine, and I'd like to ramp up capacity there.

1931
02:06:20,219 --> 02:06:23,579
I don't really have enough capacity to mine seriously, and I want to increase that.

1932
02:06:23,579 --> 02:06:28,879
So ultimately, I prefer to do my own mining with my own excess free power,

1933
02:06:29,259 --> 02:06:31,919
free, quote unquote, rather than renting hash rate.

1934
02:06:32,019 --> 02:06:32,859
But I want to give it a shot.

1935
02:06:33,059 --> 02:06:34,759
Yeah, it's pretty cool.

1936
02:06:35,699 --> 02:06:38,959
So yeah, I'm sort of running out of time here.

1937
02:06:39,099 --> 02:06:40,999
I'm flying out to Lugano tomorrow.

1938
02:06:41,299 --> 02:06:46,819
So I have a bunch of more things to do before pack, for instance, pack my suitcase.

1939
02:06:47,359 --> 02:06:48,999
And I mean, Lugano sounds fun.

1940
02:06:49,059 --> 02:06:49,619
It sounds great.

1941
02:06:49,699 --> 02:06:50,959
I hear it's expensive, but beautiful.

1942
02:06:50,959 --> 02:06:53,259
Yes, it is expensive and beautiful.

1943
02:06:53,259 --> 02:06:56,999
But yeah, we'll have a good time at the summer school.

1944
02:06:57,099 --> 02:06:59,019
It's always a pleasure to come back there.

1945
02:06:59,679 --> 02:07:00,379
Yeah, beautiful place.

1946
02:07:00,379 --> 02:07:01,899
Good people like Giacomo there.

1947
02:07:02,039 --> 02:07:05,899
Giacomo is, you know, awesome, massive respect for Giacomo.

1948
02:07:06,419 --> 02:07:08,739
Yeah, we have a lot of fun together for sure.

1949
02:07:09,119 --> 02:07:11,199
So yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

1950
02:07:11,299 --> 02:07:15,339
And I'll see what podcasting ability I have there.

1951
02:07:15,579 --> 02:07:17,459
I know there's a podcast studio.

1952
02:07:17,579 --> 02:07:19,259
I don't know if I can just use it.

1953
02:07:19,339 --> 02:07:20,319
We'll see what happens.

1954
02:07:20,319 --> 02:07:26,479
but it's going to be fun to give some lectures and talk to some students again.

1955
02:07:26,599 --> 02:07:27,919
It's always good fun.

1956
02:07:29,039 --> 02:07:33,979
Yeah, I did that just last week, last Saturday at the National Bitcoin Office in El Salvador

1957
02:07:33,979 --> 02:07:36,739
with the Cuba Plus boot camp students.

1958
02:07:36,939 --> 02:07:40,279
Yeah, I'm doing more online things with them.

1959
02:07:40,399 --> 02:07:43,739
I think some praxeology courses here coming up later.

1960
02:07:44,159 --> 02:07:45,379
That's all good fun.

1961
02:07:45,379 --> 02:07:48,779
I did two already and that was very, very rewarding.

1962
02:07:49,459 --> 02:07:52,039
The students were listening carefully.

1963
02:07:52,339 --> 02:07:54,979
And yeah, it's kind of interesting to just sit.

1964
02:07:55,239 --> 02:07:58,919
And most of them didn't have their, or none of them had their cameras on, I believe.

1965
02:07:59,039 --> 02:08:04,639
So you just had like all these people in a room and just sitting here ranting and occasionally

1966
02:08:04,639 --> 02:08:08,579
asking them if they follow along and you get thumbs up everywhere.

1967
02:08:08,819 --> 02:08:10,459
And it's like, but you don't see anyone.

1968
02:08:10,599 --> 02:08:13,339
It was a very surreal experience, but I liked it.

1969
02:08:15,179 --> 02:08:16,999
I imagine you do it in English, right?

1970
02:08:16,999 --> 02:08:17,359
Yeah.

1971
02:08:17,359 --> 02:08:18,999
Yeah, I did.

1972
02:08:19,239 --> 02:08:24,039
My Spanish is not good enough to give lectures yet, for sure, unfortunately.

1973
02:08:24,319 --> 02:08:24,979
I need to try.

1974
02:08:25,119 --> 02:08:27,439
They want me to switch to Spanish, and I want to too.

1975
02:08:27,619 --> 02:08:29,679
But getting close, getting close.

1976
02:08:29,839 --> 02:08:30,839
I have to try doing it.

1977
02:08:31,299 --> 02:08:35,479
I speak more Spanish in El Salvador than I do in Spain.

1978
02:08:35,479 --> 02:08:39,099
You sort of need it more in El Salvador than you need it in Spain.

1979
02:08:39,119 --> 02:08:40,659
It's getting harder in El Salvador.

1980
02:08:40,979 --> 02:08:42,859
It's getting harder and harder to speak Spanish.

1981
02:08:43,259 --> 02:08:45,019
Because more and more of them are learning English.

1982
02:08:45,019 --> 02:08:45,539
they want to

1983
02:08:45,539 --> 02:08:46,799
as soon as they see a white guy

1984
02:08:46,799 --> 02:08:47,539
they don't want to speak

1985
02:08:47,539 --> 02:08:48,539
Spanish to you anymore

1986
02:08:48,539 --> 02:08:49,919
it's getting tough

1987
02:08:49,919 --> 02:08:51,119
I mean in the mountains

1988
02:08:51,119 --> 02:08:52,139
they only speak Spanish

1989
02:08:52,139 --> 02:08:53,399
but here on the beach

1990
02:08:53,399 --> 02:08:55,339
everyone wants to speak

1991
02:08:55,339 --> 02:08:56,119
English to me

1992
02:08:56,119 --> 02:08:57,039
it makes me sad

1993
02:08:57,039 --> 02:08:57,839
because I'm not

1994
02:08:57,839 --> 02:08:58,839
particularly a fan of English

1995
02:08:58,839 --> 02:09:00,219
I feel like it's my work language

1996
02:09:00,219 --> 02:09:00,779
but not my

1997
02:09:00,779 --> 02:09:01,719
the one I really

1998
02:09:01,719 --> 02:09:02,879
have close to my heart

1999
02:09:02,879 --> 02:09:04,359
I prefer Latin languages

2000
02:09:04,359 --> 02:09:05,419
like French

2001
02:09:05,419 --> 02:09:06,259
and Spanish

2002
02:09:06,259 --> 02:09:06,919
but yeah

2003
02:09:06,919 --> 02:09:07,799
everybody wants to speak

2004
02:09:07,799 --> 02:09:08,619
in the city of the same

2005
02:09:08,619 --> 02:09:09,599
they all want to speak English

2006
02:09:09,599 --> 02:09:10,339
too if you're white

2007
02:09:10,339 --> 02:09:11,519
it's a little bit annoying

2008
02:09:11,519 --> 02:09:12,659
if you're trying to learn Spanish

2009
02:09:12,659 --> 02:09:13,919
and improve your Spanish

2010
02:09:13,919 --> 02:09:14,979
but

2011
02:09:15,019 --> 02:09:17,899
At least in the mountains where the Citadel is, nobody speaks English.

2012
02:09:18,459 --> 02:09:18,659
Yeah.

2013
02:09:18,839 --> 02:09:25,859
Anyway, I wish you a good rest of your day and rest of the weekend, I guess.

2014
02:09:26,119 --> 02:09:28,179
And always lovely to talk to you.

2015
02:09:28,739 --> 02:09:29,739
People can reach you.

2016
02:09:29,819 --> 02:09:32,079
You're on X, just at Yon Attack.

2017
02:09:32,239 --> 02:09:32,499
Yeah.

2018
02:09:33,139 --> 02:09:34,359
Yes, sir.

2019
02:09:34,799 --> 02:09:37,119
And you're quite active, I'd say.

2020
02:09:38,479 --> 02:09:39,479
A good follow.

2021
02:09:39,479 --> 02:09:42,139
Yeah, it's not productive to be that active.

2022
02:09:42,359 --> 02:09:43,439
But yeah, it's good.

2023
02:09:43,559 --> 02:09:44,239
It's good and bad.

2024
02:09:44,239 --> 02:09:45,239
Team Bitcoin.

2025
02:09:45,479 --> 02:09:46,179
Go Team Bitcoin.

2026
02:09:46,399 --> 02:09:47,639
Let's make Bitcoin succeed.

2027
02:09:48,079 --> 02:09:48,279
Yeah.

2028
02:09:48,479 --> 02:09:49,199
Go Team Bitcoin.

2029
02:09:50,279 --> 02:09:51,339
Thank you very much, John.

2030
02:09:51,819 --> 02:09:55,819
This has been the Bitcoin Infinity Show.

2031
02:09:56,019 --> 02:09:56,759
Thanks for listening.

2032
02:09:57,259 --> 02:09:57,619
Bye-bye.