From Broken Mast to Bitcoin with Michal & Pavla Nydrle | Bitcoin Infinity Show #228

0:00 Pavla and Michal, a warm welcome to the Bitcoin Infinity Show. Nice to have you here. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Yeah, this is an unusual episode in that I have two guests rather than one, but you're a stunning couple from the Czech Republic and you have quite the backstory. So first, a little TLDR for our listeners about who you are and maybe what you do today. And we'll get into your journey as we get further into the pod. Okay. Okay.

0:40 I assume I should start. Well, we met together in the advertising industry. and we built it together and our other few partners, the largest independent digital media group in Central Europe, which we were building from 2004 until 2019 when we sold it to French group Publicis, Publicis Group. And, yeah, that's the professional journey.

1:25 And probably we will talk about what was the next step after selling the business. We will talk about it further. And maybe I can add that the work actually brought us together. So we are a happily married couple working together, still happily married even working a lot and we have two kids and these days we fall into the rabbit hole and majority of our time we devote to the Bitcoin adoption across European Union We are following the orange signal Awesome, aim for the bright orange glowing light as as my friend Izzy says.

2:16 Yeah, so I met my wife while working too and working on a ship. So she was the watch leader and I was her officer. And we met there and for a brief moment of time there before we had actually hooked up, I was her boss rather than the other way around. But that quickly changed. This is how we studied too. Yeah, exactly. And you just said it. Well, actually, same involvement as on your side, Knut. All right. All right. Yeah. My grandfather had a coffee mug that said, I'm the boss in this house and I have my wife's permission to say so, which I think is very telling.

2:59 anyway before we go into deeper into your journey how was growing up in the Czech Republic and what made you take the like entrepreneurial route I guess that was kind of new to the Czech Republic in those I'm fascinated by the Czech Republic I know this word defenestration and that has happened twice, which is the lovely tradition of throwing politicians out of windows, preferably windows located quite high up in buildings. And I think we should introduce that everywhere.

3:41 It's a very, very sweet tradition. But yeah, tell me a bit about growing up in the Czech Republic and what that was like. Well, maybe I start. Well, I've grown up in the family of a banker. My grandfather was working around the world at the embassies as a economical attache in Lebanon, in Roma, and elsewhere. and then he established one of the largest Czech banks.

4:24 It was in the communism times. Now today it's KBC bank. And so he was educating me in the world of finance. And when there was a Velvet Revolution, so we got rid of the bloody communists in year 1989. He was 60 years old. And, um, and he started to build his businesses. And, um, um, when he was 85, I remember the Sunday lunchtime when we were sitting together and he said, you know what, I should start feeling bit tired. So I will probably, uh, slowly end up doing business.

5:08 And, um, uh, he was so passionate about having the opportunity to build a business because he couldn't do it all his life. So it, and he was educating me. So, uh, I was seven years old when there was the revolution. And, uh, I started my first business. Well, actually when I was 17, but that was, uh, that's not that important, but the advertising business, um, right after maybe when I was 18. And I think within my generation, there is this drive to achieve something because we finally can.

5:57 And I think that's the biggest motivation in our generations. The other generations, they see the freedom and the possibility to do the business as a given. so that was the main motivation on my side no I have to say thank you for this question Knut because yeah it takes you to the like where it all started when I look at my family okay I was six when the Velvet Revolution happened so I only remember like the lack of everything when I was a child. So I like you go to shop, there are long queues, you hardly get any mandarins or bananas, usually nothing. Everything usually somehow smuggle or exchange with your neighbors. And my father used to work as a soldier for Czechoslovak army. And my mom was a doctor. And what I clearly remember from my childhood was or is that once the Velvet Revolution came, actually both of them realized this is the opportunity where I can finally maybe use the freedom. Of course, I can travel, etc. But I can do what I want.

7:16 So my father stopped working for the army and he, because he was an engineer, so he joined the telco business that was looking for people in the Czechoslovakia at that time that can help to grow the business. So he joined the business side and became quite successful manager. It was Nokia. Oh, it was Nokia. Then back then it was still existing. It was Nokia and 2N as well. So big companies back then. And my mom, as somebody who got only medical education, decided that she was not happy with the status quo at the clinic.

8:02 So she decided to start her own clinic with like anything. And I remember my grandma was like painting the walls. My grandpa was helping with anything because still after the Velvet Revolution, the first few years, there was still lack of everything because before the big brands and then the surplus came. But and I think I saw this whole my childhood. I am I have one brother, a younger one, and I saw that my parents were really hardworking all that all my childhood. and I was the one taking care of my brother, going to his school teachers meetings and asking if he a good student or not I was taking care of the dinners for the whole family because they just saw the opportunity and were working hard which I think it's something which is still in the DNA of the post-communistic countries. You can look at Poland, you can look at, I think though Slovakia politically is not in that good shape, but still the people are very, try to work hard. And if you like look into the our region that we were given the chance and we just took it.

9:08 I mean, who wanted then took it. Not that everything would be bright and shiny. I think this is important to say, but if you start working like that, you could achieve something. And this is probably in our DNA. So maybe because then when we met at work, just like you and your wife, we realized that we probably have to share, we share the DNA. We like to move things forward. We like to build things. We like to just do extra mile. I think it's important because there are many people with many ideas, but try to make it work right. Try to deliver the results. So that's how it was.

9:49 Yeah, my experience with former Soviet-enacted countries is that East is the new West in Europe. Like during COVID, for instance, the fake vax passes and not wearing the mask and not being obedient was much more common in those countries because you know what doing what you're told leads to and that it's not a good place. So this obedience and high trust in institutions, it's just not there. And I know from, like, I grew up in Sweden, of course, where while we weren't communists or a part of the Soviet Union, Sweden always wanted to be like the middle ground between the East and the West.

10:39 And when I grew up in the 80s and we were indoctrinated with this, don't think you're anything special kind of mentality. Like, don't think you're better than others. And, yeah, of course, the positive aspect of that is sort of self-criticism, but two absurd levels. We have something called the law of Jante or Jantelagen, which basically tells you that you shouldn't view yourself as better than anyone else. everyone's of equal worth and all of this stuff, all this crap that you have to travel around a bit before you realize, or something has to happen before you realize that you can just do things and you don't live by permission, you live by your natural right to try as hard as you can.

11:35 And I think, was that the same in the Czech Republic? Did you have this envy-based thing taught in schools? Or were the Czechs more resilient to that? What do you think? Well, I don't know. If I go a bit more back into the history, when I look at the Second World War, Czech Republic became part of the German occupational zone. zone and the German supervisor of the Protectorat called Czechs that we are the laughing beasts or something like that which I think is I don't want to say it's correct but I would say that this was also during the communist regime that basically I think we are quite stubborn and if we decide to do something we just do and sometimes maybe we are not that honest to share it or to be, to, like, we are told to listen to all the governments that were passing across our territory historically.

12:42 But then we always find our way how to get out of it. Because if you're a small nation in quite closed geographical territory, which Czech Republic or Czechoslovakia is, you have the mountain borders from all around the space without any sea, etc. Then you have to basically learn your way out of that. It doesn't matter if Germans are coming, if Hungarians or Austrians are coming, or even Swedes actually were coming to our territory. So basically this, I think, I would call it a bit of stubbornness, probably. And the focus on to drive to the place where you want to end.

13:26 Yeah, well, maybe I go a little bit even deeper to the history. we were 300 years under Austrian Empire, Austrian Hungarian Empire and, um, and, uh, uh, there was strong resilience against the German language, et cetera. Even, even it was forbidden to actually, uh, speak Czech and, uh, have a check books and write check. Um, and, um, has a double meaning to speak. Yeah, to write checkbooks. Yeah.

14:07 And no, and, you know, there is on this example, there is always something good on a bad side, like, for example, what happened at the end of 19th century that, um, that the heavy industry, uh, which was running on the coal, Austrians, they moved to Czech Republic because it was, you know, dirty, et cetera. Because we have here, uh, like large, uh, zones with the coal mines, but that after First World War cost that actually First Republic, which was after from year 1918 till 1938, was one of the strongest economies around the world because the heavy industry was here, thanks to the fact that Austrians were pushing that dirty business out of Austria to Czech Republic.

15:19 Well, Czech countries. So and we were accepting it. But at the end, we are profiting out of that. So that's the that's the smiling beast which which, which, and for example, when she's mentioning Heydrich, that was the only one successful attempt or assassination, sorry, during the Second World War by organized counterparty. And Czechs, they flew here from London and they did the organized assassination of the Mr. Protect, how to say it?

16:10 He was the head of the protectorate, Czech and Moravia. And thanks to that, actually, we were accepted by the winning parties as an independent country after Second World War. Yeah, so it's a long history of resilience there from occupiers left and right. And yeah, that's pretty cool. I know the name Vexel, one of my favorite apps from Czech Republic, where you can find Bitcoiners to do KYC-free trades with. They took their name from the black market currency used just prior to the Velvet Revolution, right?

16:53 Exactly. The name is coming from those people which were trading the currency on the corners hidden. It was also forbidden and we call them Wexlaks. So that why our sister company Wexl is named from But I think it also shows how Czech Republic and Germany are also by I think connected by DNA as well Because when you look at Czechoslovakia, Slovaks are more to the east. We still consider ourselves more to the west.

17:34 And sometimes we say that there is a bit of German in every Czech. Maybe because of the partially some values and orientation to the west, but also the language, you can see many, many similar things from German in Czech language or the or how the sentences are built. And this wexel comes from German German word wexeln. So so you are wexeling, wexel, exchanging, exchanging, exactly. So and we have many German words in Czech, like domesticated, because it was quite quite natural for us. So wexel is great. We use it. And it's great when you aim at some service you want to have.

18:18 Yeah, because of this resilience, we have the strongest Bitcoin community in Prague. Yeah, and Swedes are still fleeing to Prague, by the way, like all the Swedish libertarians. I wondered when I was still back in Sweden, I wonder where they all were, because it couldn't be just me, but they had all moved to Prague. I figured out later, yeah, which made sense. in a way. So, yeah, you went into advertising and you had a very successful career there. And what happened after that? Well, when we met, actually, there is a nice coincidence that our birthdays are at the same day and, uh, and, uh, what you do at, when you meet together at, uh, at midnight in the bar, you have, uh, stupid ideas.

19:15 And, uh, and, uh, that idea was to sail around the world. And, uh, uh, when, when she mentioned that, uh, I immediately felt in love with her. even she was actually working in my company. Uh, so I was going against all the rules. Uh, uh, and, um, and, uh, since then, uh, we started planning. It was in 2012. Uh, we started to plan how to, uh, delegate the business or how to sell it. And, um, and, uh, and then to be able to sail around the world.

19:59 So we were for like seven years preparing for the journey. Um, we had few boats, um, um, in the Mediterranean sea and, uh, we were going for regattas, et cetera. To be able one day when we will, uh, exit from the business, uh, to be able to sail around the world and educate our kids on the board. Wait, you had a few boats in the Mediterranean already? Like one after each other. So, uh, you know, uh, okay. So not simultaneously.

20:39 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That would kill us. You know, we are getting experience and then you realize, so the one will have a bigger bedroom, bathroom, desalinator, whatever. generator gen set so so we are still evolving and uh you know there is this uh rule that in the harbor there is always someone with a bigger boat so that's the that's the ego problem yeah yeah uh so so uh so this idea was born before you had kids is that right yeah so very early on and then you had kids and then you went sailing around the world not the other way around Yeah, surprisingly, but the idea because I think when we discussed the childhood and where we are coming from, our whole life, we work quite a lot.

21:35 And for us, the boat was something like when we start to like leaving on the boat just in the time when we had free, like for summer or some weeks off, we realized that it means like a freedom or like. that's why we even called our boat liberty liberty one liberty two liberty three because in check we have the same expression for liberty and freedom so it's one one word uh and we realize that once you are on the boat suddenly you are free of everything uh and you know it you can go anywhere you want uh the boat is usually quite self-sufficient so there are no boundaries no rules you are your only limit of how far you want to go.

22:18 And we realized that when working hard, it became kind of like a plan B for us, that we wanted to escape from the, how you call it, like red wheel that you keep going, like you have to make money, so you pay people, you need people so you can do the job and on and on. We liked the job you were doing, but we felt it can't be only about this, making more or making it work for clients. And so that was the vision at the end. And yeah, and then the kids came along because we were working on the plan and practicing quite a long time. But also like we are from country of no sea, so we had to always find time, go somewhere and practice and practice.

23:05 So actually we got the kids and it took us when they were born, it took us we were we were uh going for the journey sitting on the journey when they turned six and seven years old which sounds a bit crazy but it was just the moment when everything uh matched together so we get rid of the company we sold it we didn't have to be there anymore the company was self-sufficient and and running well so we had a good feeling that we just didn't get the money from from from the from the buyer and disappear also uh that that's another point We felt that if the kids would be too small, it might be too dangerous to sail around the world, be it some disease or some infection or any injury, or when they should know how to swim in case something happens.

23:53 So actually, we realized that this age can be quite good, and they were still not missing the social network of their friends. So I would say like the first grade of primary school seemed quite all right. So then it all clicked and we just felt ready to go. So in 2021, we set on the journey, which was supposed to take two years, but it take only nine months. But it was great anyway. So it was in the middle of COVID, the first one and the second round. But even that, we arrived after we crossed the Atlantic Ocean, we arrived to Barbados and we had to be, I think like at least two days in the quarantine and traveling between the islands, non-European ones.

24:52 It was difficult. like when we arrived to Martinique, it was okay, but the other islands, we always had to do some tests and some quarantine. Yeah, I had a friend in the Cayman Islands at that time and the restrictions were super harsh there, like real draconic stuff. So where did you set out from? Like, what was the starting point of this journey? And what route did you take? Well, we actually bought or ordered a wonderful boat, Amel.

25:33 It's a French production. Their yard is in La Rochelle, in the Biscay Bay. So the production took them like two years. So we ordered that, let's say, yeah, in 2019, we got the boat in 2021 in, in June. So we were with the living with the boat and fixing things and you know buying equipment what we will need for the whole journey et cetera So all the summer and uh sailing around the France Um, and then we left, I think it was September from La Rochelle crossing, uh, Biscay Bay south around Portugal to Cadiz. And from Cadiz, we were sailing to Canary Islands.

26:33 Then we had some waiting period for the right weather at the Atlantic Ocean at the Tenerife. and from Tenerife we left I think on 20th of November and we arrived sometime around 12th of December to Barbados and then we spent like all the Christmas time and New Year's Eve in Caribbean Sea and then right after the war in Ukraine started.

27:17 I think so in March 2022, we were at the Dominican Republic and we were sailing south from Dominican Republic. I think it was like 130 to 150 nautical miles. So that's around 250, 260 kilometers south from Dominican Republic. Suddenly in, let's say, quite okay weather conditions. So it was around 25 knots. So it's still okay wind.

27:59 It's around 50 kilometers per hour. Suddenly the mast broke. at one of the best sailing boat for family cruise. Super well equipped. The mast was from Dural material 21 meters high and it broke in the height of 7 meters. Ouch. the reason was that you have a mast and then you have the front sails so front genoa the first sail on the roll fog that's the wire which holds the mast from the front broke at the top of the mast somehow and And so the front sail fell down and the mast didn't have a support from front.

29:10 And then it broke. All right. So the backstays and stuff didn't matter at all because it broke at the general level. And then you had sort of like a torque. Exactly. So, yeah, awful. And then the whole thing just broke down. I guess you had the other four sail up at the moment. And that's what broke it? This boat has just one main sail, so that's a model ML50. So one main sail and one foresail. Yeah. And so we lost everything. So the remaining 14 meters were still like fall down, but then...

30:02 What happens on the waves is that the mast hits the hull on every wave, so it creates the hole within your boat. Thankfully, the hole was happening above the waterline. So it hammered a hole in the hull. Holy shit. And so then what do you have to do? You have to cut all the sails, all the wires, so nothing below the waterline, below the deck, is actually dangerous for the keel and the propeller.

30:49 So we were cutting it off for a few hours. And so then we were able to start the engine. but that one ton heavy mast was still connected to the boat at the top. So it was doing this effect. So still banging on the hull. Yeah, exactly, still banging. So that was quite heavy task. Basically, it acted like an anchor. So even if we get rid of everything with like all the rails or the sails and everything, we were not able to, and set up the engine, we were not able to move any further because you have the mast in the water as an anchor.

31:42 And what is also good to mention that you have all the connection with the civilization at the top of the mast. You have a, you have a radar, you have lights and you have VHF antenna. So we lost everything. And when we were getting back to the shore, we were going through the traffic line. And I have pictures when there are heavy container ships crossing in front of us for like a few hundred meters.

32:28 They didn't see us. So what I did, we had some satellite phone, but with satellite phone, there is no communication to the votes around. we were in touch with the American coast guards from Puerto Rico but after 12 hours of discussions they said it was like 11 in the night they said we cannot come to save you because on our sea coast motor yacht, coaster truiser, our radar doesn't work.

33:18 And so then we reached to Dominican Republic and the answer was very quick. Sorry, in this weather, at this time, we are not going anywhere. And so then we were there alone. Once we reached back to the shore, some army boat from Dominican Republic came to actually visit us if we are not like drug dealers or something because Dominican Republic is a how to say army controlled country. Yeah.

34:00 And so at the end we saved ourselves without any help of anybody and it took us like 36 hours. The worst thing was that those two young kids were there and of course we didn't tell them that there are certain possibilities that the boat could sink if we don't get rid of the mast. But they could feel it. Sometimes when I see the pictures from those moments, I start crying because then, then you realize how stupid you are that, that I don't, I don't Not talking about you, how stupid I am, I mean, how stupid I am that we actually could cause by fulfilling our dream, like so negative experience for them.

35:00 Holy shit. So what is going through your head while you go through this? Are you imagining a warm 500-year-old seller in Prague with a nice glass of Urquil? Or are you just hyper focused on the task at hand, so to speak? You are hyper focused on the task there. Because when the mast broke, the conditions as Michal mentioned, they were quite nice. And then I, that was waking me up sometimes at night. I still see the eyes of our daughter that when she was seven years old, then she saw the mast and like her eyes were like triple the size because she was like she and she understood immediately that we are fucked up like this is something that never should should never happen because how to get out of it uh i have to say uh and from that moment suddenly you like you switch to completely different regime uh you don't feel hunger uh thirst pain whatever you're just running all around the boat to save the family or like solve the situation.

36:11 And luckily, because we were working on it for quite a long time, our kids were told one thing. If there is something specific, some difficult situation on the boat, you immediately go inside of the boat and you stay there. So you don't get, nothing happens to you. They got it like this. Like in a second, they went down and we were, the whole day, we were working around the boat to figure out what to do. They were all the time inside, six and seven years old kids. So I have no idea what were they doing the whole day. They never came out, never asked for anything, never complained anything. And that was actually incredible because it gives us the time and focus. So we just try to figure it out.

36:54 So, and there were moments, and I have to say when I always, You forget the bad parts and you usually, you know, that's how people's, humans memory work, right? You try to forget the negative moments. So we are already feeling like maybe we should go again on the boat. But when we repeat the story, then you realize how difficult it was. Because there was a moment where when you had the mast in the water, the broken one, there were the mainsail was attached to it. And it was like five, six meters below the water in the waves. And they were quite big. So what Michal had to do, he had to take a knife and go under the water and try to cut off the mainsail so we can get rid of it, which is not easy operation.

37:42 and yeah because it was a sail that acted as a drift anchor i guess exactly exactly so you are drifting you cannot maneuver the boat and then you have all the sails around you so you can't start the engine and if you do then the anchor in the mast in the water is still an anchor so as a first part of saving the operation was we have to get rid of the sails and unfortunately Sorry for the, for the green, for the like, French, but we had to let the plastic, plastic sail go into the sea, which I was, but in that moment you, what you do, right? So we had to let it, let it go. So Michal had to go into the water and with the open knife, try to cut it.

38:24 So dive there, et cetera. And he had the rope around his, around his body. And I was trying to hold him in case something, you know, something would go wrong. but there were moments where he he got hit by the wave it took him to the boat and he nearly scratched his neck with the knife and it was like terrible, if something would happen to him I don't know if even I would be able to take him out of the water or if I would be able to give him some first aid so there was a terrible moment, luckily he, the knife was from the other side, not from the sharp side.

39:05 So I know we, I think we, we feel like all the angels were there or I don't know what, uh, because it was not really easy situation. So he managed to cut off the sales, uh, go back. And then another goal was, uh, how to put down the mast. So it's not in the water. Uh, but because you have really thick, um, thick stainless steel, um, stick or I would say like inside of the hull it's impossible to and we have all the tools to try to cut it but it's so well built that it's not meant to be cut so but luckily because there was this constant hammer effect to the boat it somehow damaged or twisted the mast connected to the boat and it fell by its own weight let's say So we pulled it up on the boat and were able to finally set the engine.

40:07 It was like this, hitting the hull. And what happened that this black pencil fell on the deck and lifted up from the water the remaining 14 meters. So then both pieces of the mast were lying on the deck. Okay, so for those who are not watching the video version of this, the part of the mast that is attached to the boat, like the lower part, that was the 7 meters, and there's the breakage, and there's the 13 meters hanging from it. And then the lower part broke, which tilted up the upper part, and you could salvage it and put it on there.

40:52 I mean, this brings back a lot of bad memories for me because I've been through a handful of these situations on various ships. Like the first one in my 20s when we were sailing a schooner from Stockholm down to Mallorca. And this was in the English Channel. And the winds were like 25 to 30 meters. and one of the boards that held all the ropings for the mizzenmast, that broke. And the only thing that saved it was that one of the lines were attached to the deck for some reason.

41:35 And it was hanging, but it meant that we couldn't bring the sail down. So we had to endure this storm with this sail up and it's the mizzen. And so that pushes the boat towards the wind all the time, regardless of which direction you're going. So that was a big hassle. But I was only 20, so you don't really realize how dire these situations are. So I continued my sailing career and at one point ended up in the middle of the Atlantic, literally in the middle of nowhere. So I think the closest port was Halifax, like 500 nautical miles away or something. uh northern atlantic and we had hurricane winds like 30 and more 30 meters per second and this was on the tall ship and 10 out of the maybe in total like 15 to 20 sails were just completely torn apart so uh and that was that night particularly the night with the hurricane was like awful because like all all all i the the things i could focus on was like make sure that none of these ropes get into the propeller and make sure that all the kids are safe on board, like all the students are attached to something so they don't fall overboard.

42:50 And it was completely impossible to change course because of these giant waves. And then after that, we started going by engine and headed towards our destination, which was the Azores. and we had an ETA of one day or 24 hours for a whole week because there was more and more headwind, like no hard winds but it was kind of this distant thing that was only a day away that never seemed to get any closer because we were going so slow and i uh and of course when we arrived when we finally arrived everyone got completely shit and i think the students had some kind of teenage semi-orgy which is like these are the group psychology things that just happens when you've realized that you just survived something disastrous and yeah and I remember when I continued that career for a couple of more years of course but and I met my wife and then when we had our first kid and I was away from from my then not even one year old son for these two month periods and I remember my childhood when my dad was away for a long time and I just realized deep in my soul that I can't do this anymore Like I need to get closer to home and I need to like not put myself in danger like this.

44:17 And I need to be closer to the family. So that's where I slowly but surely started to realize. Like I turned 50 in two weeks and I've realized the one surprising thing about that is that I still haven't figured out what I want to do when I grow up. but but but i've been but i've gotten a lot better at figuring out what i don't want to do when i grow up and i think that's the that's the trick like life is not about figuring out what you want to be it's like it's about figuring out what you don't want to be yeah yeah exactly eliminating uh well yeah uh when you talk about the becoming a father and then you realize that you have some responsibility.

45:06 Exactly. Our dream actually happened before we were parents and then we just we like to fulfill the task list. And this was on the task list. And exactly. If we would be parents and then we would come up with the idea probably wouldn't happen. Another thing with these near-death experiences. It's the same thing with people who have done too much psychedelics or something. They say that it's one of the best things that happened to me, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

45:46 And it's the same thing with a near-death experience because of course you can't recommend it to anyone because it's awful in every single way, but it does give you a perspective and it makes you realize that the scarcity of your days on this earth is what gives your life value and why you it motivates you to do shit every day instead of just wasting your life on on on bullshit so yeah i think that's at least for me that's what it did and i i think that's for you so so we're at the like if this is uh the hero's journey where we're we're in the middle of the crisis part of that circle here and what happens after it so you you come ashore somewhere in the dominican republic yes uh where in the dominican republic this is so funny because i've been to all these places that you talk about with ships so i'm quite familiar with it because there is a city romana uh south of dominican republic uh yeah on yeah on the south coast?

46:54 Yeah, south coast. Yeah, there's a beach resort kind of place, right? Yes. Casa de Campo is like a super luxury condominium resort. And we actually arrived there. It was so weird because all those, you know, super luxury yachts and then us with a broken They were looking at us as strangers. But what happened after?

47:35 There was a horrible feeling when they let us to stay actually another 24 hours on the anchor in front of the harbor. They didn't allow us to go in. They had to do all the checks. So the army came on the board and they checked if we are really not the drug dealers. Then they were checking the passports. And after... And imagine you are there with two small kids. You see people and you know this, you see people walking like on the coast. There is like ice cream shop and the only thing you want to be is like on the shore, safe, and then get the fucking ice cream for your kids.

48:17 You have to wait there until you get permission. priority number one is not being on a fucking boat right now exactly and then when we finally reached the ice ice cream shop i remember the moment i i have a still picture in front of me right now. We are sitting there and Pavla said, so it's behind us. Let's return back to Czech Republic and do something for good for society.

49:01 And I was asking myself, maybe even I was asking loudly, like, can you imagine me that I do some non-profit activity? Okay. Knut, you see, I have a gift when I can say loud things that I probably shouldn't be saying. Like to sail around the world on a yacht or to give it back somehow because I felt that, I don't know, depends what you believe in. If you believe in karma, if you believe in the God, if you believe in yourself or if you believe in Bitcoin, whatever. But I just felt that there was like something bigger than us that helped us.

49:45 So we actually saved us and our kids with our own hands and minds. And I felt we should somehow return this energy back somehow. And I felt we are thankful to something or someone because this was not like clear we will save our lives. So I said that over the scoops of ice cream. That's true. So it's March 2022. And there are presidential elections coming. January 23 is the final date.

50:25 In the Czech Republic. In Czech Republic. And because our previous president was like... Let me guess. Your president was a bit of a dick. That's always... I wasn't sure if I may say at your podcast such a word, but thank you. I wouldn't say it better. Leave the cursing to me. I've been at sea longer than you have. He was such a dick. like pro-Russian and he actually made few people to actually leave the country and not to be proud of the country etc.

51:12 I had the luck before we left on our journey to meet General Peter Pavel Uh, he was, um, um, six years, I think, working as a highest, uh, soldier in NATO. And, uh, he was like the second, uh, highest position. Um, back then it was not Mark. Um, I don't know who was predecessor of Mark. But, uh, Peter Pavel was working under him and, um, and, uh, he decided.

51:56 that he will, uh, candidate as a president. And uh we returned back to Prague uh and because of our previous skills from the advertising industry and online media industry and uh contacts everywhere uh in the highest business and also in the media houses Um, we actually decided to run his campaign. So Pablo was the campaign manager and I was running the fundraising. and some media relationships. And well, from day one, when we returned, we jumped back to 20 hours a day, intensive work for another nine months. And, and yeah, we won or he won. And he's our current president.

52:55 and we are so proud of him right now and what political inclination does he belong to what are his policies I guess he's not a communist so what is he actually that's a funny thing from his previous career CV because he was educated in the he grown up in the communist family so he was a soldier back then in the communist time but then then he said you know it's good to talk about mistakes I was educated this way I changed my mind after the revolution and he was completely open about it and but he's I mean western oriented so western values like pro-European union because he said so far we didn't invent anything better than the union so if you stop something what do you replace it with so let's talk first that and then we can think of some better way he always says the same about democracy that so far we haven't invented anything better that would be working for so long among so many nations.

54:24 So he's this kind of guy. He doesn't push his opinions. But I think... Maybe, you know, the president of Finland, Aleksandr Stup, they are actually very good friends, I would say. So if your listeners are aware of the political opinion of Finnish president, they go along. Yeah, I have great news about Finland and politics, or semi-great news at least, and that's from the BTC Health Conference where I brought Stefan Kinsella from the Property Freedom Society Conference in Turkey to Finland, and he was then invited with a couple of Bitcoiners to the Minister of Finance in Finland because he liked Kinsella's work specifically.

55:25 And Kinsella is very close to Hans-Hermann Hoppe and the libertarian ideas. So it's very good to hear that there's an actual interest in that kind of movement and that kind of thinking in politicians in Europe. I really like that fact. I'd say, yeah, it's often said that democracy is the worst form of government, except all others that have been tried. I'm not sure that I agree because, yeah, first of all, well, let's try another one then because this is obviously not it. And there's a lot of arguments for why monarchies are actually better and that the reason that we have progressed as a civilization is not what the governments have done.

56:07 It's what the free market has done over the decades and not the other way around. The thing is with voting, by not voting for a candidate, you implicitly vote for the other candidate. What you can't do is vote for all of them to have less power. It's always about either one guy has power or the other one, but you can never vote for them to not have power at all or even to have less power. And if you look at the parliaments of the entirety of Europe, there are very few parties that actually want to reduce the size of the state in any significant way. That's horrible.

56:49 I'm totally with you. Also, my personal opinion is that the monarchy was until now the best working regime because people owning or treating their people or owning their land they take care better than one Exactly. You put your finger on it. It's better to have an owner of the house than just temporary tenants all the time. We could see that that was exactly within communism. It was owned by everybody. And there was a common sentence that if you don't steal to the state, you are stealing it from your family.

57:39 Yeah, that was within the nation, like everybody was saying it. And so you could see houses being built just from the material which they were stealing from the governmental constructions. And it's, it's horrible. It was life. It's socialistic Republic. I own it. You own it. We all own it, we are all comrades, we can take it, right? And it's quite, it's in many Czech movies from even that period, like people were making, even the movie makers were making fun of that. People are stealing one brick here, a bit of this material there.

58:22 So, yeah, that's horrible mindset. So definitely. Well, in some of the European countries, we see the movement back to this regime? Like for example, in Spain, they were, that's like a week ago, they were voting to actually frozen rents for five years. Yeah, well, there's a re-election on the 29th of November. So we can finally get rid of Sanchez because like if I thought Swedish politics were corrupt, but yeah, going here, I see that we're amateurs in comparison. Like this guy, the one personal thing I had, just a funny anecdote. There was a new law passed that you needed a warning light for when your car broke down. So that needed to be in every single car from a certain date. And it turns out that only one brand of light was approved by the government and that brand is run by a guy who's the brother of Sanchez's wife or something like that. So it's like stuff like that everywhere but hopefully he can get kicked out now and yeah we see a lot of That's a cherry on the top you know the system is sexually

59:52 rotten so So, of course, one man will leave or maybe his wife go to jail or whatever. But that doesn't mean that the system will be changed into the right direction. No, I think it's inherently corrupt because it's based on theft. Like it cannot not be corrupt. And it's based on fiat money. So, yeah, to get to the end of this story. Yeah, you help this politician. And what happens next? what happens to your lives and where do we end up in the now? We didn't want to be involved in politics.

1:00:36 We just said, well, we had to return something to the gut because of our you know sea disaster We did that and then we returned to maintain our businesses which mainly was back then after the elections, real estate and, and birth management. So, so we are maintaining mainly our, our wealth and investments.

1:01:17 And we could see how actually the system is really rotten that all people around us are just, you know, making money to keep their wealth instead of living from it. I'm talking about mainly the inflation impact and the stock exchange trading just to, you know, gain the profits and desperately looking for some investments which will fight the inflation COVID times and it brought us back to Bitcoin. So we were in Bitcoin, let's say from 2016, but partially as a speculative investments and a little bit of...

1:02:15 I see. So you did lose all your hardware wallets and all your Bitcoin in the actual boating accident then? Well, the truth is that when we returned the back, we didn't have any Bitcoin. No, you had a boating accident. You have a perfectly good excuse. Yeah, exactly. Imagine how well we staged it. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is on par with Rick Messit, my friend here who made a whole career out of fucking up his Bitcoin. So yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. All good. It's a normal story.

1:02:59 Or actually, Pavla, when she bought in, it was also sometime in 2016, when she bought a cafe in the... There was a famous cafe in Prague where you could only pay by Bitcoin. It's called Parallel Police. Yes, I've been there many times. Have you ever heard? I have to tell you about my first time there. Okay. Because to me, this is like the coolest place ever. Like I've followed it for a long time. And you know, Hackers Congress and all of this happens there. Yeah, some shit coiners, but who cares? So first time I walk in there, there's a guy who says, Knut, welcome to Paralini police. Let me show you the way. And it's like, he treated me like royalty.

1:03:41 And I'm like, fuck yeah, dude. So yeah. It's close down now. But some Bitcoin back then, just to be able to invite. client for some coffee and lunch or baguette or whatever. And she lost the paper because back then... There was an ATM machine that was switching... Yeah, you had another boating accident on land there. Exactly. This time without sea. I'm very skilled. So, yeah. So we did... Back to your question. So we didn't continue. We started to maintain our wealth and, uh, and, uh, uh, then we just realized, Hey, would, would be good to build some business around Bitcoin.

1:04:35 And you know, somehow the universe works, um, that I accidentally met CFO of Satoshi Labs, uh, and, uh, we just had a one night. discussion second and at the third cafe or meeting, we agreed about buying 50% of one of their companies. So we bought 50% of invity, which was back then a comparator within treasure suite. And, and we just decided that we will build a neobank.

1:05:19 Uh, but it was one year before, uh, we had to get the Mika license. So, um, we went through all this procedure. So the founders of Trezor, they said, Hey, you know, Michael, you are coming from the more traditional, uh, word than us. We are, you know, anti-system punkers. So you take care of the regulatory business. And so the company is owned 50-50.

1:06:01 And yeah, this is where we are right now. This is what is our passion. and our mission is to help people to save their savings. That's my favorite mission statement. Nice. So both Vexil and Inviti are under the Satoshi Labs umbrella. Yes. And of course, Trezor. What other companies are under Satoshi Labs? There is one more, which is absolutely phenomenal. know, you know, slash and stick founders of treasure are, you know, technological geniuses. So what they did, they see another threat within the chip industry. So they build it a company called Tropic Square, which is Auditable chip open sourced, um, uh, which is already implemented in a treasure hardware wallet number seven, the latest hard, uh, treasure.

1:07:19 And, um, And we are expanding into other industries because the chip industry is so far, Like everything is under NDA, you can't check anything and it's actually very unfavorable for the end users in terms of any backdoors or the security. Yeah, they introduced that at the Trezor's Model 7 launch event last year, which I went to last year. So I'm familiar with that. I wasn't aware that now that you say it, I remember that it's a separate company. but yeah yeah so there's a lot of stuff happening there yeah good to hear i mean uh yeah i like treasures and i like bit boxes which may or may not have anything to do with them being nice to me i i also like seed signers a lot without them having been nice to me but you know maybe after this podcast they will realize that they should be nice to you Yeah. I mean, yeah, nowadays, though, I think it's high time for people to set up a multi-sig thing with the multiple vendors when it comes to hardware wallets. It seems like a very good idea after the cold card hack and all of this crap going on.

1:08:40 yeah so so so invity we're gonna learn about more about in invity in another episode here because i i'm going to have one of your colleagues on um in another conversation so we can dissect how how that works uh yeah i find it very cool that there's a a kyc and a non-kyc service under the same umbrella so yeah yeah uh maybe i shouldn't say that maybe i have to edit that out for the MICA license, but I don't think so. No, we are openly talking about that, that you should have for some like living within the system, we are still living in the system, right? So you should have definitely some KYC and non KYC Bitcoins as a diversification.

1:09:34 And, you know, as a slash also says, there is no possibility to do DCA on non KYC Bitcoin, right? So like automated DCA. That's what we are specializing at. So now, so if you want to accumulate Bitcoin, that the better way, for example, using external money is possible through us. And then if you want have some non-KYC Bitcoin for some security purposes using Wexel.

1:10:16 That's how we are actually usually invited to speak together at some panel. People are expecting some conversational battle and we are acting like, you know, twins. Yeah, I mean, I always advise people to at least not mix their stacks because they're for different purposes. And of course, I'm not encouraging you to do anything illegal. And by illegal, I mean stuff that doesn't break natural law. Yes, yes. Interpret that as you wish. But yeah, there's definitely a need for both kinds of services, I think, at least on the path to hyper-bechronization, which I still think is a possibility, albeit not within our generation's life spans, I guess.

1:11:12 It'll take longer than most people think. Still, I love what's going on in the Czech Republic in general. Prague is always fascinating to me how many people are involved with this freedom movement and everything surrounding it. And yeah, some misfires with the shitcoiners and stuff, but still there's this inherent drive to not do what you're expected to do, but do something else. You know what, right before this podcast, I was in Czech National Bank and I was talking to the people there that we have this opportunity to create a system for Mika licensed companies to report because we have to report.

1:12:12 and I would like to avoid all those data leaks so create a system into which we will report and they will maintain secured I offer them I will invest it, I will build it under Satoshi Labs house and actually there is already immediately that person wrote to some other involved people within the IT security departments there will be a meeting at the end of November to kick this off to kick this out So I hope that from this initiative, there will be a reporting tool, which will be secure and will be controlling who looks at which data.

1:13:14 so we avoid what happened in France, for example, that some bloody clerk sends the Excel file sheets to some mafia guys. So there is hopefully another very important project coming from this industry in Prague because I think that's what we need for the security of Bitcoiners for the future. absolutely in the kyc world like these honey honeypots are the worst thing ever so if we can find a secure way to send it to only one mafia that being the government and not all the other mafias that is yeah that is at least uh less worse yeah well of course i mean well best is not to send it right uh but this of course this is not to collect it at all but you're forced to this this this is not this is utopia or how you call it yeah that's um what slash also mentions the best data are no data but yeah but we are living in the world where we are living yeah yeah yeah yes so yeah go go check out invity i think my uh referral address is invity dot the io is it right slash infinity I think that should work now let me check it I should check it too

1:14:45 I think you have this infinity code right for the download if I'm not mistaken that definitely works for the 50 euros to check us out yeah you get 50 euros for free if you do 10 transactions I think right something like that yeah it doesn't work maybe I misspelled something it doesn't work right now but we'll make sure it works before we release this absolutely and yeah great to have you on great story I think this is a lot of Bitcoiners can probably more Bitcoiners than we think can relate to something like this because maybe they didn't have a boating accident but maybe they had some other near-death experience and what that does to you.

1:15:40 I think that resonates with a lot of people. I think a lot of Bitcoiners have had that and that's why they sort of got this, I have to figure this shit out. Having kids is one way to push yourself to figure things out because you realize quite quickly that I can't be a starving artist now. That won't work. Everything will suck if I'm stuck in the rat race here so I need to make money. And yeah, what can I say? Thank you very much for sharing your story. Thank you very much for having us. It was pleasure, Knut. And thank you for your insights as well Yeah I love your t I going to wear it also because I not at the bank representative meeting That's good to hear.

1:16:33 Yeah, I have my previous t-shirt here. These are still available somewhere, I guess. Yeah. And when will I see you next? In Lugano, maybe? We are, unfortunately, on a family trip. So we will not be in Lugano, but we wanted to come. But we are in Namibia for a family trip. So I suppose... Amsterdam. I know Knut is not coming to Amsterdam. Not coming to Amsterdam, yeah. So we were in Poland. Which actually, I have to say, Knut, it was not that bad in Poland for next season to consider BTC Poland. there are some shit there are some shitcoiners but the bitcoiner environment is quite good as well shitcoiners don't affect me like I don't even listen to them it just bounces off of me so that was quite nice and also there's a point to just talking to the already initiated and only to bitcoiners then you don't that's not adoption like talking to shitcoiners can be good in the sense of you can actually convert them hopefully but i think you would be actually interesting as a speaker uh with this like because polish they have the best gdp growth uh in europe uh they had also super terrible cases when it came come to uh not your keys not your coins i don't know if you heard about the zonda case so terrible experience there and that's not the only one they don't have the Mika license approved

1:18:05 so it's a very interesting environment and I think they are now more open because of the bad experience what happened with the crypto but mainly with Bitcoin to hear I think to go a bit deeper when it comes to the overall philosophy of Bitcoin and actually I think it could be interesting and I'm definitely happy to put you through and I think it could be interesting your thoughts and perspective on the adoption and where it goes. Actually, I think because they didn't have such speaker this year. It was the first session. So I think it would be great. And there will be another surprise, probably at the BTC Prague next year in May.

1:18:55 Because it is mainly public. It is maybe public. Like what we did, we did public collection of 1.3 Bitcoin to order the statue of Satoshi Nakamoto, which is in Lugano. So from the artist, we already collected 1.3 Bitcoin within six days. Holy shit. Yes, the statue is ordered and it will be seen at the event of BTC Prague, which will be happening next year in May in a much better location.

1:19:40 Beautiful. Yes, I heard this. Beautiful location It a it a it a it a venue venue which was built at the end of 19th century And it beautifully reconstructed now And so that's a first thing we already got proof from the city representatives that they will allow us to put the statue permanently in front of this building. So there will be another little step of Bitcoin adoption within Prague.

1:20:23 Awesome. And Invitae will do an interesting stand for all our cooperating podcasters. That will be a surprise which will come later. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, looking forward to BTC Prague as always. And yeah, always excited to go back to Prague. It's my favorite big city in the world. I'm not a huge fan of big cities in general, but I really love Prague. It has such a wonderful vibe to it. And I mean, the beer is the best in the world. And the food is close, at least.

1:21:07 The dumplings are not the best ones. No, but I brought my brother, my youngest brother to Prague this year. And I told him, we're now going to go to a restaurant and there's a bone broth garlic. Yeah. What do you call it? Beef tartare sandwich on a toasted sourdough bread. And it's going to be the best thing you've ever ate. and you're going to drink the best beer you ever drank to it. So I'm going to give you the best dish and the best beverage you ever had in your life. And he's a professional chef.

1:21:48 So he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, Knut. Like not believing me. And then he sips the beer and takes a bite of the sandwich and looks at me and is like, god damn you. Yeah, so that's a lot to look forward to. and yes, keep the spirits up and we'll see when we'll see each other looking forward to the beginning of a long and prosperous friendship thank you, we are looking forward to so God save the king sending greetings to the northern part of Europe and Spain Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not to Sanchez. Yeah. All right. Thank you. It was a pleasure.

1:22:42 Likewise. Cheers. So thank you, Pavla and Michal. This has been the Bitcoin Infinity Show. Like, subscribe and brush your teeth. And yeah, subscribe to Awesome Fountain. For $5 a month, you get all the episodes ahead of time. See you next time. See you. Bye. Thank you.