Rent Hash Power & Mine Bitcoin From Home with Unhosted Marcellus | BIS #199

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Ghost of unhosted Marcellus, welcome to the Bitcoin Infinity show. Nice to have you here.

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Thank you. Thanks for having me.

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Yes. First of all, the name. What are you a ghost of? And why are you unhosted? Where does that come from?

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I think I picked this name based on the European regulations about hosted and unhosted wallets.

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That was something that made me laugh.

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And since I host all my Bitcoin infrastructure, I assume that I was unhosted Marcellos because it's my name.

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And Ghost is because I already left Twitter once.

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So when I came back, I added the Ghost.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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A lot of people use...

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That was a trend for some time that people called themselves Ghosts when they came back, right?

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But I mean, I remember Svetsky being banned like 20 times for saying stupid shit.

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Just one for me.

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Yeah.

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But I mean, I've been following you for a long time.

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I'm a longtime fan.

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You're a based pleb.

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And we're here to talk about a lot of things, BIP-110, and how you can rent hash power nowadays.

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And it's fascinating, fascinating topics indeed.

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But first of all, a little about you.

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For those who don't know you, who are you?

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And I mean, you are normally a NIMH, so I'm very glad.

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At least I can see your face.

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We'll see what we do about that in post.

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Who are you and what do you do in the Bitcoin space?

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I basically post in the Bitcoin space.

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I don't really work in Bitcoin,

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but it's a topic that I've been following for a really long time and interests me because it

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intersects with the technical side. I have a computer science degree and I heard about it

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for the first time in university and back then already caught my eye even though I didn't

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understand the economic implications so to speak at the time but it's something that

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But I've been following for over a decade now and been really interested in.

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And also, I think four years ago, I started meeting other Bitcoiners here in Barcelona, where I live and where I'm from.

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And we organize monthly meetups.

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We teach people how to use wallets, how to run their notes and try to create a circular economy,

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what a lot of people is doing in lots of places in the world.

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And in my case, I also like to shitpost, I guess, on the internet.

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I have a lot of fun with this.

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Yeah, shitposting is an art form.

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And I should really get my ass up to Barcelona one of these days.

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I mean, we're both residents of the same country, I guess.

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And there's really no reason for me to not, other than Barcelona being quite far away.

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I think it's a five-hour drive or something from where I am.

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We would love to have you whenever you want.

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Yeah, and I love Barcelona.

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I've had a lot of fun there in my sailing days mostly.

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Oh, unhosted wallets, by the way.

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This is what the EU calls when you hold your own keys, which is really the only way to actually own Bitcoin.

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Or I would say that you can't really own Bitcoin.

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what you can do is act as if you own them because you cannot own information.

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The very nature of information is that it's unownable.

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And this is one of the things that make Bitcoin so different and so great

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is that instead of actually owning something,

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you can act as if you do because you think that it's very improbable

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that someone else holds the same key as you do.

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and also you find it very improbable that the code will change to such an extent

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that it will destroy the value proposition of the token.

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Is this something you would agree with that framing?

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Yeah, I think how I like to think about it is like you have possession of it,

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but you don't have title.

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So you can have the keys of a car in your pocket and you can drive it,

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but you can also have a car in your name.

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And if it gets stolen, the state will help you retrieve it, depending on where you live.

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So you can have a card in your name, but the keys are exactly what make it useful.

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And in the case of Bitcoin, you only have the keys.

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So you must be very careful about having those and not forgetting them and making sure that only you have them.

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Yeah, and just to double click on this point, because the thing that makes those laws trying to ban unhosted wallets are so absurd because what they're doing is they're making numbers and words illegal.

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Yeah, they are trying to regulate math.

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random numbers and random words as well, because you can derive a Bitcoin private key from a coin

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toss or from throwing a dice 99 times or toss a coin 256 times. Also, the 12 magic words that we

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hear about so often, they are not a representation or they are not a, you know, pin code or something

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to the keys. They are the keys.

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They are the bitcoins. They are the

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ability to move the sets.

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So, you know,

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banning words is

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just so absurd when you really understand

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what they're trying to do.

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So, middle finger to the EU.

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I agree.

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Fuck the EU, but...

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Yes, we hope that is far enough

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into the pod to not get censored.

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And I think it is, or shadow banned,

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or I will have to be ghost of Knut Svanholm.

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But anyway,

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the uh where were we the unhosted no self-hosted is a very nice thing i mean it's the only thing in

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bitcoin that makes sense it's what makes bitcoin different from everything else and if you also run

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your own node and if you um you you can signal for bip 110 which is a uh soft fork a temporary

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soft fork proposal in bitcoin that tries to uh you know slap the the core devs a bit and tell them

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that you're on the wrong path uh we will not we will not comply we will uh try to fight spam in

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any way we can yeah we don't trust the expert basically it's what it says yeah exactly and

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it is a point that i i believe a lot of people doesn't understand they believe that this is in

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reaction to spam it is not it is in reaction of to core v30 uh it's in reaction to the change of

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mempool mempool policy and i believe it's a sad state of affairs but if there were

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more than one implementation that was seen at least to have how to say this the same reputation

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as bitcoin core if we had like three or four to choose from like in the lightning network

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Trying to do this fork wouldn't even be necessary.

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I think people would just naturally migrate to other projects that haven't gone bananas.

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And that would be it.

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But since we are in a situation where we have a reference implementation that it still has 80% of the market share.

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So this is like the only way that users have to revert decisions during the project.

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And this is not even something that is particular to Bitcoin Core.

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This is like a trend that we've been seeing in a lot of open source projects that interest try to use them to their advantage.

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We have seen this recently with SystemD, that it's like a part of Linux that is used in a lot of Linux distributions,

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where they forced putting the things that are necessary to track age.

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because in some jurisdictions in the world,

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they decided that operating systems should track the age of the users.

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So they decided to comply and they forced this through.

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And it was a situation that was really similar to what we saw in Bitcoin Core.

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We saw a pull request in GitHub.

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We saw 80 thumbs down and it was forced through and it was locked down

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and there was no possibility to even discuss it.

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But as I said, it's not something that is just in Bitcoin.

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It's a general trend in open source.

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But well, here we are, I guess.

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Yeah, it's been infiltrated.

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Everything gets infiltrated over time, it feels.

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Especially when you have outside funding and it is not a hobby project anymore.

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It's become gross.

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I think this whole wokeness of core thing started in 2019.

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I have had many interesting guests on about this subject,

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including Hodlonaut and John Attack.

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John Attack was in the middle of it,

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and Hodlonaut has written many articles about what actually happened there.

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I enjoyed the sports.

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Oh, thank you.

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I mean, yeah, I agree with you totally that BIP-110 is a reaction to what Core did.

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Some people may think it's harsh to try to implement a soft fork,

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as a reaction to a mempool policy change.

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But, yeah, this is a temporary soft fork,

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so it may not be as harsh of a measure as people think.

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So what would you say to that,

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to people who think that this ought to be done at the mempool level

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and that people can change their own policies locally and stuff?

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What would you say to those people?

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I would agree.

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In general, in fact, for years I've been arguing that to fight spam, you have an advantage at the mempool level.

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So my opinion hasn't changed in that regard.

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But this is a way to really change the direction of the project.

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So all the experts agree that what is better for Bitcoin and for the health of the network is to make all the arbitrary data more easy to relay.

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And it's obviously not.

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We can get more into detail on this later on and how everything agreed on that previously to 2023.

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but as I said

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this is not in relation to spam

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this is to change the direction

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of the Bitcoin network

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what this software

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gives us

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because as you said

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it's just temporary

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in fact this is one of the things

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that made me

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I didn't jump to support

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BIP110

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right from the start

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it took me a few months

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to come around it

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and one of the reasons was

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that it is a self-expiring fork.

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At first, I didn't understand how it worked.

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I thought that it would be a hard fork

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when it ceased to be enforced,

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but then I understood that it isn't.

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But I also believed, why do it temporarily?

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If we really don't want up returns,

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why not just do it permanent?

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But at the end of the day, as I said,

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what you can use to fight spam

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is mempool policy.

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And this basically gives us some time

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to work on a different mempool policy approach,

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so to speak,

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or more precisely to roll back

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to what we had previously to 2015,

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I believe, where we had.

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What we have now, my opinion,

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is that it's too permissive

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and we should switch back

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from a blacklist model to a whitelist model.

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We want to allow all this and everything else has to prove that it's useful before we rely on it.

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Speaking of other implementations, I very recently had, the pod is not released yet when we're recording this, but I had Jimmy Song and Samson Malon to discuss their new project.

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I guess you heard of it.

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I mean, they've set up the entity that is going to try to fund this,

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but I guess it's still quite far off into the future

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before we get this new, more conservative implementation up and running.

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But I guess that would be desirable to have that up and running

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when BIP110 expires.

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What do you think?

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Yeah, yeah, totally agree.

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It's just linked to what I said a moment ago

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that Bitcoin would be in a better place

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if there were several implementations to choose from

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that were seen as equally good.

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I think nodes is not so bad

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considering that the guy has been doing this exercise

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since over a decade ago.

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In fact, nodes exist

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because Luke was one of the first pool operators

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and he wanted to have more control of his mining node

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and he has been maintaining his own modifications of Bitcoin Core for a long time So I think it as good as it gets You will find someone more capable or with more expertise doing this

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But it's true that it's just one maintainer,

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even though there are also a few developers working there.

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For me, what I would like to see is if Luke found a place

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where he feels welcome and productive.

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collaborating if he doesn't in core anymore so if he can do that in in this new project that would

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be great but so far we haven't seen anything besides announcements so we will see uh to me

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being conservative sounds great but what i really care about is sovereignty and user choices so to

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me a note implementation should be yeah should be conservative but should also let you do a lot of

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a lot of stuff without going outside the Bitcoin protocol.

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So I don't know if this would classify as conservative,

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but I don't know.

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I guess we will see.

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I'm looking forward to what this is, honestly.

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So where do you draw the line?

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Because I know, like, I call myself a monetary maxi,

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and that's because I think Bitcoin ought to be money.

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And I think the question that developers should ask themselves before trying to implement something new is, does this make Bitcoin better money or not?

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And there are things that aren't, you know, just being conservative and keeping the rules the way they are that actually do make Bitcoin better money.

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for instance segwit which led to the lightning network which is obviously very good for maybe

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first and foremost privacy but also for faster transactions so but but there are these other

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things there are people that want to build anchor stable coins to bitcoin they want to programmable

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stuff like a bit vm and and such what do you think like where do you draw the line where it's not

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money anymore but but spam like what what kind of things do you want but where would you draw the

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line like what what kind of things wouldn't you want to see on bitcoin maybe that's a better

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question i don't know because i haven't really looked in detail in all of these things in general

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i think that developers are quite misright they see that there's a narrative that bitcoin needs

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use cases because they are afraid that there won't be enough fees in the future to pay for the

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security of the network. So they have a tendency to think, look, I just found out about something

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new that we could do on Bitcoin transactions and this would pay fees. So this is good. So I think

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that this is completely misguided and misses the basic incentives of Bitcoin.

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What I care about is to do on-chain transactions that, to be honest,

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they are not that expensive, especially since a year ago.

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00:17:06,434 --> 00:17:09,714
And L2s, I guess I'm also in favor of them.

235
00:17:09,814 --> 00:17:11,514
Of course, I also use the Lightning Network.

236
00:17:11,614 --> 00:17:13,234
I think it's a great development.

237
00:17:13,234 --> 00:17:18,234
In fact, I used to see Bitcoin as a speculative thing.

238
00:17:19,074 --> 00:17:29,194
I mean, I understood the hard money angle, but at the same time, I understood that the space to transact was very limited.

239
00:17:29,194 --> 00:17:43,254
And when I first discovered the Lightning Network, and this wasn't really until four years ago for me, when I started meeting people in person here in Barcelona, they showed me a Lightning wallet for the first time.

240
00:17:43,314 --> 00:17:50,754
And I was like, what the fuck is this? How is possible that you can send Bitcoin transactions without putting them in the blockchain?

241
00:17:50,754 --> 00:17:57,254
and it's supposedly as secure as normal transactions.

242
00:17:57,394 --> 00:18:01,294
When I really dug into this rabbit hole and understood how it works,

243
00:18:01,294 --> 00:18:05,254
I had an epiphany moment that said,

244
00:18:05,434 --> 00:18:11,154
well, with this, all the work could be pagging for lunch every day.

245
00:18:12,594 --> 00:18:14,294
Lightning also has their own limits,

246
00:18:14,974 --> 00:18:20,574
but in general, I'm supportive of L2s if they are sovereign.

247
00:18:20,754 --> 00:18:29,314
just like bitcoin i want the l1 to be to be as efficient and lean as as possible and i don't

248
00:18:29,314 --> 00:18:35,874
think i'm saying something new i mean almost everyone who is uh justifying spam today you can

249
00:18:35,874 --> 00:18:44,594
find quotes from before the the inscription exploit was discovered arguing that the chain has to be

250
00:18:44,594 --> 00:18:50,354
the lean as possible and we want to optimize as much space as we can.

251
00:18:51,454 --> 00:18:54,354
And now we see that a lot of these people are justifying that it's

252
00:18:54,954 --> 00:19:00,294
perfectly fine to embed four megabyte pictures in blocks because they pay for fees.

253
00:19:00,454 --> 00:19:02,334
It doesn't make any sense.

254
00:19:03,094 --> 00:19:08,714
No, I think one of the biggest misconceptions about Bitcoin that people have is that miners

255
00:19:08,714 --> 00:19:11,434
find Bitcoins, which is not really true.

256
00:19:11,514 --> 00:19:13,994
They find block space and we pay them in Bitcoin.

257
00:19:13,994 --> 00:19:16,434
We allow them to pay themselves in Bitcoin.

258
00:19:16,814 --> 00:19:19,894
I think we pay them to confirm our transactions.

259
00:19:20,614 --> 00:19:29,374
And they are implicitly supposed to be monetary transactions is what the system was built for, not as cloud storage.

260
00:19:30,074 --> 00:19:35,434
No, and this is why the whole notion of spam, why it's such an issue for us.

261
00:19:35,434 --> 00:19:47,274
Because we understand that the internal payment mechanism of the network is totally dependent on there not being spam there.

262
00:19:47,274 --> 00:19:53,134
Because then people will stop paying for the service and having their transactions go through.

263
00:19:53,234 --> 00:19:55,394
Basically, you cannot compete with spam.

264
00:19:55,514 --> 00:19:58,374
This is something that is said all the time.

265
00:19:59,094 --> 00:20:04,754
But to someone who wants to inscribe data, not only will this transaction take a lot of space,

266
00:20:04,754 --> 00:20:14,334
But if you look in detail in these transactions, they pay like all the sats that they are moving, like 95, 99% of it, it's fees.

267
00:20:14,934 --> 00:20:16,394
So they are paying like five.

268
00:20:16,934 --> 00:20:21,834
And if you want to compete with that, you won't do it unless you are moving thousands of dollars of value.

269
00:20:21,934 --> 00:20:30,034
You will not be moving five dollars because you will only pay a cent in fees if you want to move a dollar.

270
00:20:30,034 --> 00:20:34,434
So this really displays a lot of economic activity for this effect.

271
00:20:34,434 --> 00:20:36,714
because they are really taking a lot of space.

272
00:20:36,854 --> 00:20:38,874
And this really undoes all the engineering effort

273
00:20:38,874 --> 00:20:42,394
that has been done in Bitcoin since it started.

274
00:20:42,634 --> 00:20:44,874
If you look at the oldest transactions in the blockchain,

275
00:20:44,974 --> 00:20:48,474
in the first blobs, you will see that the public keys were huge.

276
00:20:48,854 --> 00:20:52,354
So then we discovered that we could make them half as big

277
00:20:52,354 --> 00:20:55,994
and then we could compress them even more by using hashes.

278
00:20:55,994 --> 00:20:59,734
And everything that we've been doing at the protocol level

279
00:20:59,734 --> 00:21:05,694
is to be able to fit more monetary transactions in there.

280
00:21:05,834 --> 00:21:08,854
And even Tabroot was sold as this.

281
00:21:09,014 --> 00:21:11,374
Before it was activated, it was sold as a privacy upgrade

282
00:21:11,374 --> 00:21:14,534
and as an efficiency upgrade.

283
00:21:14,534 --> 00:21:19,254
And because of a mistake, we got just the opposite.

284
00:21:19,454 --> 00:21:23,854
All the 15 years of previous engineering effort has been undone

285
00:21:23,854 --> 00:21:26,874
because at first people didn't know what to make of this

286
00:21:26,874 --> 00:21:28,794
and then they normalized it.

287
00:21:28,794 --> 00:21:42,614
And now they say, yeah, it's fine because it's paging fees, but all the engineering effort that we did for 15 years trying to make the block space more efficient has been thrown down the board.

288
00:21:43,114 --> 00:21:43,734
This is where we are.

289
00:21:44,374 --> 00:21:55,314
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it is an exploit. There's no doubt about it because Taproot, it's not at all being used as it was intended or at least advertised.

290
00:21:55,314 --> 00:22:02,774
Yeah, so getting back to mining, I couldn't care less how miners make their money.

291
00:22:03,374 --> 00:22:11,094
The thing is, this is what everyone talking about this, that we have to think about the security budget and all that crap, misses.

292
00:22:11,434 --> 00:22:15,254
And that is that the difficulty adjustment works both ways.

293
00:22:15,794 --> 00:22:21,714
So should miners start dropping off en masse, then mining becomes profitable again.

294
00:22:21,714 --> 00:22:24,414
So it's always an equilibrium.

295
00:22:25,014 --> 00:22:32,494
And we're doing like 900, what is it, exahashes per second, which is like...

296
00:22:32,494 --> 00:22:35,874
Yeah, 1,000 exahashes, but it's one setahash.

297
00:22:36,214 --> 00:22:40,354
Yeah, which is one followed by 21 zeros or something like that, right?

298
00:22:40,494 --> 00:22:40,734
Yeah.

299
00:22:40,774 --> 00:22:42,414
Which is an insane number.

300
00:22:42,474 --> 00:22:44,174
When you think about what that actually is,

301
00:22:44,354 --> 00:22:47,934
these are computers around the world just guessing a number.

302
00:22:48,434 --> 00:22:49,794
Mining 101 here.

303
00:22:49,794 --> 00:22:57,834
right now and for those listeners who don't know this mining is mostly done by pools i think all

304
00:22:57,834 --> 00:23:03,494
my listeners know that but uh what what what people are really doing when they're selling

305
00:23:03,494 --> 00:23:10,194
their hashing power to a pool is that they're they're not they cannot really call themselves

306
00:23:10,194 --> 00:23:17,014
miners they they are hash mongers or hashers and uh yeah this is one thing i didn't know until a

307
00:23:17,014 --> 00:23:22,334
mining conference I went to, and that is like, how do you actually prove how much hashing power

308
00:23:22,334 --> 00:23:28,234
you send to someone? And that is that they have a lower difficulty target for the next block. And

309
00:23:28,234 --> 00:23:33,934
then they send those, not the real block, but just those proving that I actually have the hash power.

310
00:23:34,114 --> 00:23:40,334
I say that I have kind of blocks to the pool. And then the pool can verify that you have this and

311
00:23:40,334 --> 00:23:46,334
that much hashing power. Therefore, we're going to pay you this and that much. And the most common

312
00:23:46,334 --> 00:23:48,534
model of payouts for

313
00:23:48,534 --> 00:23:50,834
hashers, hashmongers

314
00:23:50,834 --> 00:23:52,614
is something called

315
00:23:52,614 --> 00:23:54,474
FPPS, full

316
00:23:54,474 --> 00:23:55,214
pay per

317
00:23:55,214 --> 00:23:57,694
share.

318
00:23:58,694 --> 00:23:59,514
Exactly. So

319
00:23:59,514 --> 00:24:02,474
the mining pool owner, which is

320
00:24:02,474 --> 00:24:04,314
the real miner, by the way, because

321
00:24:04,314 --> 00:24:06,294
they are the ones that decide on what

322
00:24:06,294 --> 00:24:08,334
block template to mine on

323
00:24:08,334 --> 00:24:09,614
or what block to mine on.

324
00:24:10,314 --> 00:24:12,434
And they pay regardless of if

325
00:24:12,434 --> 00:24:13,974
they find that block or not.

326
00:24:14,254 --> 00:24:16,234
But the new one is Ocean and

327
00:24:16,234 --> 00:24:23,974
a small handful of other miners that allow the hash mongers to actually be miners and

328
00:24:23,974 --> 00:24:31,974
submit their own block templates. And whoever finds the block decides what block was mined on,

329
00:24:32,114 --> 00:24:37,634
and the pool doesn't decide that. But you have figured out a way to hack this, or at least

330
00:24:37,634 --> 00:24:42,574
popularize the way. I don't know if you're the one that came up with it. I think you had a finger

331
00:24:42,574 --> 00:24:48,874
in that at least, that you can actually rent hash from a bigger pool, meaning that you

332
00:24:48,874 --> 00:24:49,814
are actually doing...

333
00:24:49,814 --> 00:24:52,294
Not a bigger pool, but hashers.

334
00:24:52,514 --> 00:24:53,414
Yeah, yeah, from hashers.

335
00:24:54,514 --> 00:24:54,674
Yeah.

336
00:24:54,894 --> 00:24:55,114
Yeah.

337
00:24:55,294 --> 00:25:02,334
So you're basically acting, a pleb can act as a mining pool in a way, because we can do

338
00:25:02,334 --> 00:25:09,514
what they do, which is buy hash power from hashers, and then direct it to Ocean and Signal

339
00:25:09,514 --> 00:25:10,194
for BIP-110.

340
00:25:10,194 --> 00:25:18,934
And we can do this renting the hash power by doing it this way since Ocean doesn't use FPPS.

341
00:25:19,094 --> 00:25:23,434
Ocean pays out whenever they find a block and they pay you accordingly.

342
00:25:24,094 --> 00:25:29,834
So some weeks this is a winning business model and some weeks it's not.

343
00:25:30,254 --> 00:25:35,054
But you should get 95% of what you paid or above.

344
00:25:35,414 --> 00:25:39,074
And what you get back more importantly is KYC free sats, right?

345
00:25:39,074 --> 00:25:40,874
Am I getting this whole thing right?

346
00:25:41,494 --> 00:25:42,294
What's your version?

347
00:25:43,514 --> 00:25:43,694
Yeah.

348
00:25:44,294 --> 00:25:47,154
I don't know if I'm the one who came up with this.

349
00:25:47,534 --> 00:25:48,434
At any rate,

350
00:25:48,854 --> 00:25:51,414
Hashtag Markets has been around for a lot of time,

351
00:25:52,134 --> 00:25:54,914
but they didn't make a lot of sense

352
00:25:54,914 --> 00:25:58,474
until the Datum Gateway was released

353
00:25:58,474 --> 00:25:59,934
one and a year and a half ago.

354
00:26:00,614 --> 00:26:03,334
And I only realized this like a few,

355
00:26:03,594 --> 00:26:05,094
like a couple months ago.

356
00:26:05,194 --> 00:26:07,834
I've been mining with my Datum Gateway

357
00:26:07,834 --> 00:26:11,074
with a couple bit access for more than a year.

358
00:26:11,474 --> 00:26:13,134
And it wasn't until recently they said,

359
00:26:13,234 --> 00:26:17,274
hey, I can expose this settlement point of the gateway to the internet

360
00:26:17,274 --> 00:26:21,854
and get as many hash rate as I want because it's really cheap.

361
00:26:22,034 --> 00:26:27,154
Maybe it would be useful to explain how Potion works

362
00:26:27,154 --> 00:26:31,694
because it's very different to any other pool that is in existence.

363
00:26:31,694 --> 00:26:36,154
And I think it will take the others a bit of time to catch up

364
00:26:36,154 --> 00:26:38,614
or offer something similar.

365
00:26:39,114 --> 00:26:40,974
When you run your own Datum Gateway,

366
00:26:41,294 --> 00:26:42,874
you are basically a pool operator.

367
00:26:43,834 --> 00:26:45,434
So let that sink in.

368
00:26:45,494 --> 00:26:48,294
You have like 90% of the power

369
00:26:48,294 --> 00:26:51,494
that a pool like Foundry or Antpool

370
00:26:51,494 --> 00:26:53,494
or any of this has

371
00:26:53,494 --> 00:26:57,494
because you are running the Stratum pool software

372
00:26:57,494 --> 00:27:01,234
and hashes are pointed at the software

373
00:27:01,234 --> 00:27:03,894
and the software is the one that is connected to Bitcoin now

374
00:27:03,894 --> 00:27:06,634
that is deciding what to work on.

375
00:27:07,514 --> 00:27:10,554
You can also decide where to send the hash rate

376
00:27:10,554 --> 00:27:14,714
if you want to send, let's say, 10% of your hash rate

377
00:27:14,714 --> 00:27:17,594
to a mining address and the rest to another

378
00:27:17,594 --> 00:27:19,174
for whatever reason.

379
00:27:20,034 --> 00:27:21,534
You can do this sort of thing.

380
00:27:22,334 --> 00:27:27,094
And then Ocean is really like a coordinator.

381
00:27:28,134 --> 00:27:30,914
You can think of Ocean as a federation of mining pools.

382
00:27:31,074 --> 00:27:33,414
Every user is a mining pool with their own

383
00:27:33,894 --> 00:27:52,049
And then the role of Ocean is making sure that it keeps track of all the shares that are being found by everyone and make sure that no one cheats Because just a moment ago you said that Ocean pays based on the blocks that they are found And this is not exactly how it works

384
00:27:52,049 --> 00:27:58,509
The way it works is that every miner in the pool, every pool of this variation of pools,

385
00:27:58,989 --> 00:28:01,589
pays the rest when a block is found.

386
00:28:01,789 --> 00:28:05,669
Because it's their own software stack that finds the block.

387
00:28:06,349 --> 00:28:10,669
And then the role of Ocean is making sure that the Coinbase transaction,

388
00:28:10,669 --> 00:28:14,269
that is the first one that you have in every Bitcoin block,

389
00:28:14,489 --> 00:28:17,549
is paying all the participants in the pool,

390
00:28:17,709 --> 00:28:19,449
at least the bigger ones,

391
00:28:19,489 --> 00:28:24,509
the ones that should be getting a reward for the next block.

392
00:28:25,029 --> 00:28:28,509
And so really, you can think of Ocean,

393
00:28:28,709 --> 00:28:33,629
like the same role that Robosatz or BISC or HODL has.

394
00:28:33,769 --> 00:28:36,069
It's just a trusted third party that is making sure

395
00:28:36,069 --> 00:28:40,229
that the participants in the federation of pools

396
00:28:40,229 --> 00:28:43,609
in this case are not cheating each other.

397
00:28:43,909 --> 00:28:47,409
But really, each participant has a lot of power,

398
00:28:47,629 --> 00:28:49,989
like almost equivalent to a pool operator

399
00:28:49,989 --> 00:28:52,169
because it's running this stack end-to-end.

400
00:28:52,289 --> 00:28:53,289
And once you realize that,

401
00:28:53,409 --> 00:28:55,769
you can decide to be a pool operator

402
00:28:55,769 --> 00:28:59,309
and rent hashrate just as, as you said,

403
00:28:59,409 --> 00:29:00,789
the FPPS pools do.

404
00:29:01,209 --> 00:29:03,149
I mean, all the large players that are playing

405
00:29:03,149 --> 00:29:05,369
based on the FPPS model,

406
00:29:05,549 --> 00:29:06,549
they are basically the miners

407
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:10,469
and they are renting the hashes to work for them

408
00:29:10,469 --> 00:29:12,949
because they are paying for every share that is found.

409
00:29:13,049 --> 00:29:16,309
But as you said, these shares are not enough to find a block.

410
00:29:16,409 --> 00:29:21,629
They are useless, but they prove that they are working on the job

411
00:29:21,629 --> 00:29:23,989
that the pool has given them.

412
00:29:23,989 --> 00:29:27,109
So it's basically the same approach

413
00:29:27,109 --> 00:29:31,229
what so far only four or five pools could do

414
00:29:31,229 --> 00:29:35,849
because you needed a lot of size to be a Bitcoin mining pool.

415
00:29:35,849 --> 00:29:41,809
you now can be a very small pool, do this and get rewards on a regular basis.

416
00:29:42,029 --> 00:29:44,189
This is the game changer of Datum.

417
00:29:44,429 --> 00:29:49,069
Because before Datum, you could also run something like public pool or CK pool.

418
00:29:49,229 --> 00:29:51,769
But if you do this, you would be forced to find blocks.

419
00:29:51,869 --> 00:29:56,049
If you didn't find any blocks, you wouldn't make up for all the money

420
00:29:56,049 --> 00:30:00,529
that you have spent on rented hash rate.

421
00:30:00,529 --> 00:30:04,789
But once Datum is in the picture, you can pay whatever you want every day,

422
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:09,229
$30, $60, whatever, and make most of it back in blocks.

423
00:30:10,109 --> 00:30:16,689
On average, push and find right now for the hazard, it has one, two blocks per day.

424
00:30:17,329 --> 00:30:19,429
Sometimes one, sometimes nothing.

425
00:30:20,409 --> 00:30:28,649
If you are mining continuously, in the long run, it's like almost a break-even.

426
00:30:28,869 --> 00:30:33,469
You lose a few percent, and then you can scale this up and down as much as you want.

427
00:30:33,469 --> 00:30:35,109
And it's similar to mining with Habitax.

428
00:30:35,229 --> 00:30:43,069
Everyone who's mining with Habitax at home understands that they won't even break even with the investment on the machine.

429
00:30:43,069 --> 00:30:44,869
And it's just generating sales.

430
00:30:45,109 --> 00:30:48,569
Or they can lot of mine and they will never find a block, usually.

431
00:30:50,329 --> 00:30:50,949
This is the same.

432
00:30:51,049 --> 00:30:57,029
You can scale your hash rate higher, but without expecting a return.

433
00:30:57,289 --> 00:31:02,629
Just because you want to control a chunk of the total hash rate.

434
00:31:02,629 --> 00:31:06,369
there's a lot of reasons you might want to do this.

435
00:31:06,409 --> 00:31:07,369
You said one of them,

436
00:31:07,609 --> 00:31:10,429
you're exchanging your UTXOs

437
00:31:10,429 --> 00:31:12,969
from the Coinbase transaction

438
00:31:12,969 --> 00:31:14,849
that don't have history,

439
00:31:14,969 --> 00:31:15,789
but there are many more.

440
00:31:16,029 --> 00:31:18,529
Right now, the high-rate markets are not redeveloped

441
00:31:18,529 --> 00:31:19,509
because, as I said,

442
00:31:19,609 --> 00:31:21,369
they didn't make a lot of sense until now.

443
00:31:22,069 --> 00:31:23,769
But I think it's just a matter of time

444
00:31:23,769 --> 00:31:25,009
that someone will offer,

445
00:31:25,129 --> 00:31:26,989
hey, swipe your credit card

446
00:31:26,989 --> 00:31:28,769
and you can get computing power,

447
00:31:29,449 --> 00:31:30,669
Bitcoin computing power,

448
00:31:30,669 --> 00:31:36,829
And then you would be able to pay to stack sats, basically, without going on an exchange.

449
00:31:36,929 --> 00:31:42,149
You can exchange fiat for computing power that you can consume yourself.

450
00:31:43,949 --> 00:31:47,689
Yeah, I think it opens up interesting possibilities.

451
00:31:48,689 --> 00:31:55,649
Yeah, to explain this a little further to those listeners who aren't that technical,

452
00:31:55,649 --> 00:32:06,969
The Coinbase transaction is the transaction that contains the block reward and the block subsidy, to be more specific.

453
00:32:07,709 --> 00:32:09,549
What is it nowadays?

454
00:32:10,029 --> 00:32:11,409
3.175?

455
00:32:11,409 --> 00:32:12,169
3.175, yeah.

456
00:32:12,829 --> 00:32:13,629
Bitcoin.

457
00:32:13,629 --> 00:32:18,629
and those get divided proportionally

458
00:32:19,149 --> 00:32:21,949
to how much hash power you gave

459
00:32:21,949 --> 00:32:25,049
to your personal pool gave to Ocean

460
00:32:25,049 --> 00:32:25,849
to find the block.

461
00:32:26,129 --> 00:32:26,729
Exactly.

462
00:32:27,149 --> 00:32:28,469
So two things here.

463
00:32:28,649 --> 00:32:31,229
You get almost all your sats back

464
00:32:31,229 --> 00:32:34,709
on average if you do this.

465
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:36,049
And the longer you do this,

466
00:32:36,129 --> 00:32:37,129
the higher the likelihood

467
00:32:37,129 --> 00:32:40,229
that it stabilizes over time, right?

468
00:32:40,329 --> 00:32:41,689
Because it's probabilities.

469
00:32:41,689 --> 00:32:46,489
So if you just do it for a short time, it's more of a lottery.

470
00:32:46,769 --> 00:32:49,069
The longer you do it, the less of a lottery it is.

471
00:32:49,629 --> 00:33:02,289
And you get to signal for BIP-110 if you want, and you get KYC-free sets, which is, I mean, to my knowledge, Ocean does not KYC at all.

472
00:33:02,409 --> 00:33:06,749
They don't care who owns the UTXO that they are paying out to.

473
00:33:06,849 --> 00:33:10,509
They're just paying to UTXOs and not to people.

474
00:33:11,689 --> 00:33:13,889
which is excellent.

475
00:33:15,189 --> 00:33:18,089
Ocean knows that they sent money to a certain address,

476
00:33:18,249 --> 00:33:19,929
but they don't know who owns the address.

477
00:33:19,929 --> 00:33:23,749
And they don't care where the Bitcoin goes after that.

478
00:33:24,109 --> 00:33:28,049
So it's a wonderful way to actually use Bitcoin

479
00:33:28,049 --> 00:33:30,769
more as it was originally intended,

480
00:33:30,989 --> 00:33:34,369
which is as money and as private money on the internet.

481
00:33:35,369 --> 00:33:39,949
So I encourage anyone listening to this to look into this.

482
00:33:39,949 --> 00:33:44,749
To my knowledge, it's only brains that are doing this right now, right?

483
00:33:45,529 --> 00:33:48,949
There are a couple other hash rate markets that I know about.

484
00:33:49,429 --> 00:33:54,429
The most known, I guess, is one that is called NiceHash.

485
00:33:55,169 --> 00:33:59,629
I don't talk a lot about them because they require KYC.

486
00:33:59,929 --> 00:34:02,269
And to me, KYC is very dangerous.

487
00:34:02,629 --> 00:34:06,609
So my recommendation is whenever someone is asking for your personal information,

488
00:34:06,609 --> 00:34:11,209
You should stop what you're doing and get out.

489
00:34:11,889 --> 00:34:14,529
So I don't really recommend doing that.

490
00:34:14,789 --> 00:34:19,988
But if someone doesn't care, I believe this is one of the more stable.

491
00:34:20,209 --> 00:34:22,149
They have been doing this for out of time.

492
00:34:22,909 --> 00:34:27,869
And they have more and more hash rate available that brains that is still in beta.

493
00:34:28,089 --> 00:34:30,309
And they started a couple months ago.

494
00:34:31,089 --> 00:34:34,529
And then there's also another market that I haven't tried yet.

495
00:34:34,529 --> 00:34:39,829
because so far brains has been working for me, more or less.

496
00:34:40,909 --> 00:34:43,349
They also have a bit of inconveniences.

497
00:34:43,849 --> 00:34:46,389
They are not as cypherpunk as they could be,

498
00:34:46,529 --> 00:34:51,109
but at the end of the day, they are a regulated company in Europe

499
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:53,869
and they have to jam through several hoops.

500
00:34:53,869 --> 00:34:57,008
But for people who find this intolerable,

501
00:34:57,209 --> 00:34:59,969
there is a website that is called Mining Rig Rentals

502
00:34:59,969 --> 00:35:01,709
that is completely cypherpunk.

503
00:35:01,709 --> 00:35:10,929
Anyone can post, any hasher can offer their hash there and they don't require KYC at all.

504
00:35:12,029 --> 00:35:19,149
And I think that the website also does scroll, make sure that the hash rate is being delivered.

505
00:35:19,349 --> 00:35:25,488
And even for each hasher, you can see the history of deliveries and if they are reliable or not.

506
00:35:25,488 --> 00:35:30,329
The problem with this website is that it's much more expensive.

507
00:35:31,449 --> 00:35:35,369
In there, we are not talking like 1-2% of loss.

508
00:35:35,449 --> 00:35:37,569
We are talking more like 10.

509
00:35:37,789 --> 00:35:40,889
But again, several flavors for different folks.

510
00:35:41,049 --> 00:35:44,089
If you find the inconveniences of brains intolerable,

511
00:35:44,329 --> 00:35:48,289
you can look into this and combine all these three markets

512
00:35:48,289 --> 00:35:52,429
and report that they have like 5% of total hash rate.

513
00:35:52,429 --> 00:35:55,789
I'm saying this from the top of my head

514
00:35:55,789 --> 00:35:57,289
but I believe that Brains has

515
00:35:57,289 --> 00:35:58,869
two exahashes

516
00:35:58,869 --> 00:36:01,689
NiceHash has like

517
00:36:01,689 --> 00:36:03,549
10

518
00:36:03,549 --> 00:36:05,969
I believe and Mining Rentals

519
00:36:05,969 --> 00:36:07,769
reports 40

520
00:36:07,769 --> 00:36:10,109
so like 50 more or less

521
00:36:10,109 --> 00:36:11,429
out of 1000

522
00:36:11,429 --> 00:36:13,729
that would be 5%

523
00:36:13,729 --> 00:36:14,769
this is what they report

524
00:36:14,769 --> 00:36:17,829
not sure if they are real or not

525
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:19,929
but in any

526
00:36:19,929 --> 00:36:22,029
case if people are interested

527
00:36:22,029 --> 00:36:29,909
in this i believe supply will be elastic to some degree we don't know how much but if people are

528
00:36:29,909 --> 00:36:36,249
interested in brains and brains cannot cannot supply everyone more hash rate will come there

529
00:36:36,249 --> 00:36:42,349
because it will be more profitable for hashes to to send their to resell their their hash rate

530
00:36:42,349 --> 00:36:49,008
than pointing it at an fpps pool so if there's interest it should grow by its own and i think

531
00:36:49,008 --> 00:36:54,409
it will because if you think about it this is like the the last step for a bitcoiner we always

532
00:36:54,409 --> 00:36:59,249
talk about the bitcoiner's journey you first need to hold your keys and then you need to run your

533
00:36:59,249 --> 00:37:06,889
note okay but then what happens with this note it's uh really useful what it's a lot of people

534
00:37:06,889 --> 00:37:12,189
don't don't bother but once you get the mining into the mix when you said yeah this machine is a

535
00:37:12,189 --> 00:37:17,489
log template machine it's used for mining you can use it for mining at any scale you want you can

536
00:37:17,489 --> 00:37:23,569
start with a bit tax on the chip to learn the roads and if you like it and you want to take a

537
00:37:23,569 --> 00:37:28,649
bigger control of the total hash rate you can totally do it because it's not at least at the

538
00:37:28,649 --> 00:37:34,209
moment it's not it's not very expensive i think it's because people are not used to doing this

539
00:37:34,209 --> 00:37:41,669
and the market is underdeveloped but also because of the bitcoin price if bitcoin was still at 120k

540
00:37:41,669 --> 00:37:45,049
hash value would be twice as expensive.

541
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:52,749
So you would be paying $60 per petahash instead of $30, where we are now.

542
00:37:53,889 --> 00:37:58,369
Yeah, and Bitcoin rewards those with a low time preference, as we know.

543
00:37:58,609 --> 00:38:05,689
So there are many hurdles to mining if you're mining the old-fashioned way.

544
00:38:05,789 --> 00:38:08,209
First, you have to buy a mining rig of some kind.

545
00:38:08,529 --> 00:38:09,989
And this can be very expensive, by the way.

546
00:38:10,249 --> 00:38:11,649
Yeah, this can be very costly.

547
00:38:11,669 --> 00:38:16,869
Yes, and then you need to use electricity.

548
00:38:17,189 --> 00:38:20,689
And if you don't have access to very cheap electricity,

549
00:38:20,969 --> 00:38:25,489
in Europe it's becoming increasingly rare.

550
00:38:26,449 --> 00:38:32,029
Two, the home heater miner from 21 Energy.

551
00:38:32,508 --> 00:38:36,089
And I've been running that to heat my house all winter.

552
00:38:36,089 --> 00:38:40,289
And the mining was sort of a side thing that it did.

553
00:38:40,289 --> 00:38:41,769
It was good fun.

554
00:38:42,469 --> 00:38:45,109
But it is like mining is noisy.

555
00:38:45,389 --> 00:38:47,649
Mining is inconvenient in many ways.

556
00:38:47,749 --> 00:38:50,989
So it's great that this new way of doing it,

557
00:38:51,049 --> 00:38:54,369
where you can just rent hashes from someone else

558
00:38:54,369 --> 00:38:57,329
who has a cheaper electricity bill than you have and whoever.

559
00:38:58,008 --> 00:38:59,109
And again, it's not new.

560
00:38:59,409 --> 00:39:01,529
And in fact, it didn't make much sense until now.

561
00:39:01,829 --> 00:39:05,889
But now that you can really give your mining jobs

562
00:39:05,889 --> 00:39:07,409
to any machine that you want,

563
00:39:07,409 --> 00:39:09,369
this is a game changer.

564
00:39:09,369 --> 00:39:17,729
It's now that you can act as a pool operator and still operate on the long term because you don't need to find blocks yourself if you are in a pool.

565
00:39:18,508 --> 00:39:19,669
This changes everything.

566
00:39:19,809 --> 00:39:26,969
This makes the market much more wide and potentially, I mean, I find very good what I'm doing.

567
00:39:27,189 --> 00:39:30,929
I believe that thousands of people will want to do the same.

568
00:39:31,189 --> 00:39:38,249
And in fact, you don't need that many people to take over large portions of the total hash rate.

569
00:39:38,249 --> 00:39:39,429
That is what we really want.

570
00:39:39,569 --> 00:39:43,849
Right now, we have five mining nodes that are finding 90% of the blocks.

571
00:39:44,409 --> 00:39:49,769
We really want to decentralize this, and this is a way to do this.

572
00:39:50,169 --> 00:39:54,249
Maybe I could give some numbers how I think about the profitability,

573
00:39:54,729 --> 00:39:59,689
or not profitability of doing this, because this is one of the questions that I get the most.

574
00:40:00,769 --> 00:40:01,249
Absolutely.

575
00:40:02,329 --> 00:40:07,329
What I do, because first, it's impossible to have a long-term estimation

576
00:40:07,329 --> 00:40:08,529
of what this will cost

577
00:40:08,529 --> 00:40:11,849
because this depends on future difficulty,

578
00:40:12,089 --> 00:40:13,069
which you don't know.

579
00:40:13,349 --> 00:40:14,849
If difficulty goes up,

580
00:40:15,449 --> 00:40:17,109
hash rate becomes more cheap

581
00:40:17,109 --> 00:40:18,929
and if it goes down,

582
00:40:19,029 --> 00:40:20,169
it becomes more expensive

583
00:40:20,169 --> 00:40:22,369
because the same hash rate gets you more such.

584
00:40:23,029 --> 00:40:24,729
So this is a variable that you don't control.

585
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:27,069
You also don't control the price of Bitcoin.

586
00:40:27,289 --> 00:40:29,129
If price of Bitcoin goes up,

587
00:40:29,129 --> 00:40:31,429
then hash rate also becomes more expensive

588
00:40:31,429 --> 00:40:33,129
and vice versa.

589
00:40:33,369 --> 00:40:34,709
And then this is the big one.

590
00:40:34,709 --> 00:40:36,309
this depends on the

591
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:38,729
actual revenue depends

592
00:40:38,729 --> 00:40:40,489
on the pool's lack so

593
00:40:40,489 --> 00:40:42,769
maybe one day Ocean could find

594
00:40:42,769 --> 00:40:44,869
10 blocks in a day

595
00:40:44,869 --> 00:40:46,529
when it was expected to find 2

596
00:40:46,529 --> 00:40:48,689
and this day you make bank and then

597
00:40:48,689 --> 00:40:50,329
maybe you can spend 3 days

598
00:40:50,329 --> 00:40:52,849
without finding a single

599
00:40:52,849 --> 00:40:54,409
block and you don't know

600
00:40:54,409 --> 00:40:55,869
how

601
00:40:55,869 --> 00:40:58,849
you don't know the look that the pool

602
00:40:58,849 --> 00:41:00,749
will have beforehand so the only thing that you

603
00:41:00,749 --> 00:41:02,549
can do is take a picture

604
00:41:02,549 --> 00:41:04,469
right now and see

605
00:41:04,469 --> 00:41:10,429
what it will cost for the current price on the market

606
00:41:10,429 --> 00:41:15,809
and what you are expected to earn at Ocean at this very moment.

607
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:19,569
And you at least can get a ballpark number.

608
00:41:19,889 --> 00:41:23,109
So if you wanted to do this, you can go to the Ocean dashboard

609
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:28,129
and find any miner of any sites you want because all the information is public.

610
00:41:28,949 --> 00:41:32,909
But since the hash rate is sold by petahash per day,

611
00:41:32,909 --> 00:41:34,449
so you get the price.

612
00:41:34,609 --> 00:41:51,503
When we saying that a petahash is this means getting constant delivery of one petahash for 24 hours You could go to the Ocean dashboard search for a one petahash miner and see what is the expected revenue of this miner and you will get a number

613
00:41:51,783 --> 00:41:59,863
So then you go to the market and check what it will cost you to get one petahash per day.

614
00:41:59,863 --> 00:42:02,323
and then you subtract one number to the other

615
00:42:02,323 --> 00:42:06,263
and it will be in the range of 1,000 sats.

616
00:42:06,443 --> 00:42:09,003
So we are talking less than a dollar.

617
00:42:09,663 --> 00:42:13,463
I think a dollar right now is 1,000 sats and 400,

618
00:42:13,883 --> 00:42:14,603
something like that.

619
00:42:15,303 --> 00:42:19,063
So basically the TLDR is that for one petahash,

620
00:42:19,263 --> 00:42:21,083
it costs you less than $1 a day

621
00:42:21,083 --> 00:42:23,823
and then you can scale up as much as you want.

622
00:42:24,503 --> 00:42:25,703
Or down, if you don't want to do this,

623
00:42:25,723 --> 00:42:27,263
you can do it with Bitaxis.

624
00:42:27,263 --> 00:42:36,803
But this is a way that for someone like us that don't have access to cheap electricity and we would never consider.

625
00:42:37,703 --> 00:42:42,183
I see this like Safe Dean says that what good is fiat for?

626
00:42:42,263 --> 00:42:47,903
Because you have to earn money first and then you need to get a degree to keep your money.

627
00:42:48,063 --> 00:42:48,863
This is similar.

628
00:42:48,863 --> 00:42:56,443
It wouldn't make sense if you had to buy Bitcoin first and then you need to become a miner and buy thousands of machines.

629
00:42:57,263 --> 00:43:00,403
Let's just let the free market do this thing.

630
00:43:00,583 --> 00:43:05,803
If someone wants to specialize running these machines and they know what it costs them,

631
00:43:06,283 --> 00:43:10,563
I'm happy to offer them a cent more over their cost.

632
00:43:11,303 --> 00:43:14,843
And I will give them the mining jobs to work from my home.

633
00:43:14,943 --> 00:43:17,703
And I don't need to buy machines.

634
00:43:17,783 --> 00:43:19,643
I don't need to spend thousands of dollars on machines.

635
00:43:20,343 --> 00:43:23,963
I can start mining as soon as I want and I can stop mining as soon as I want.

636
00:43:24,163 --> 00:43:24,563
That's it.

637
00:43:24,563 --> 00:43:31,923
I think people need to have a reference that mining with one petahash is less than $1 per day.

638
00:43:33,123 --> 00:43:37,323
Yeah, but it is a quadrillion guesses per second.

639
00:43:37,683 --> 00:43:38,703
That's what peta means.

640
00:43:38,703 --> 00:43:39,023
It's a lot.

641
00:43:39,303 --> 00:43:42,883
Yeah, it's a million billions of guesses.

642
00:43:44,463 --> 00:43:45,503
Yeah, it's several machines.

643
00:43:45,663 --> 00:43:49,443
I mean, if you see what one petahash is in person, it's not small.

644
00:43:49,443 --> 00:44:03,143
No, so it's really mind blowing when you actually try to wrap your head around what these numbers mean in Bitcoin, like, and the difficulty like you have, what is it now, like 18 zeros followed by some random number.

645
00:44:03,143 --> 00:44:19,563
And when you understand what that implies, that's just one of the real true mind fucks of how big this thing is and how secure it is and how ridiculous the word security budget becomes when you think about it in those terms.

646
00:44:19,823 --> 00:44:22,643
Yeah, so we want to urge more people to do this.

647
00:44:22,803 --> 00:44:24,163
You mentioned a couple of websites.

648
00:44:24,343 --> 00:44:26,903
Is there a good explainer video?

649
00:44:27,183 --> 00:44:31,223
I think Matthew Cratter just posted something about this.

650
00:44:31,223 --> 00:44:35,563
I haven't watched that one yet because it just came out the minute before we started recording this.

651
00:44:35,683 --> 00:44:37,123
I haven't seen this yet.

652
00:44:37,123 --> 00:44:42,183
But there's a website that does a pretty good job that is called ransomhash.com.

653
00:44:42,523 --> 00:44:43,003
Ransomhash.com.

654
00:44:43,003 --> 00:44:47,823
It has explainers for all node distributions for Umbrell, for Start9, I believe.

655
00:44:48,103 --> 00:44:48,323
Yeah.

656
00:44:48,503 --> 00:44:53,563
I don't have a lot of experience with them because I'm an nerd and I use Linux directly.

657
00:44:53,723 --> 00:44:59,323
I have my node in a Linux box and do everything by hand and build the source myself.

658
00:44:59,323 --> 00:45:06,603
So when people come to me with tech support, I don't know how to help them with Start9.

659
00:45:07,323 --> 00:45:15,303
But in RansomHash, I think that there are some good guides and explainers to start looking into this.

660
00:45:16,163 --> 00:45:19,983
Yeah, I'm running a Start9. You can see the box here behind me.

661
00:45:20,303 --> 00:45:20,603
Yeah.

662
00:45:21,483 --> 00:45:25,743
I'm not sponsored by them, but I'm very super.

663
00:45:25,743 --> 00:45:27,963
So a little disclaimer there.

664
00:45:27,963 --> 00:45:33,623
Crater always says that Start9 is not paying him in any way and they're not paying me.

665
00:45:33,763 --> 00:45:35,503
But it's been fantastic so far.

666
00:45:35,623 --> 00:45:36,863
I absolutely love it.

667
00:45:37,343 --> 00:45:44,483
So go get a Start9 if you can, if you want to get into all of this and become even more self-sovereign.

668
00:45:44,743 --> 00:45:49,263
I mean, I'm a slow learner when it comes to these things, but I do enjoy it.

669
00:45:49,323 --> 00:45:53,603
And I learned a lot from talking to people like you about how these things work.

670
00:45:53,603 --> 00:45:59,843
But the saying is Bitcoin is for everyone, but I think Bitcoin is for anyone is much more.

671
00:46:00,423 --> 00:46:01,043
Totally agree.

672
00:46:02,723 --> 00:46:04,563
Anyone willing to do the homework.

673
00:46:05,503 --> 00:46:10,103
And the more homework you are willing to do, the more magic Bitcoin becomes.

674
00:46:10,323 --> 00:46:11,523
That's the way I see it.

675
00:46:11,883 --> 00:46:12,263
Exactly.

676
00:46:12,883 --> 00:46:14,583
Yeah, it's a totally voluntary system.

677
00:46:14,723 --> 00:46:16,843
You don't need to hold your own keys if you don't want.

678
00:46:16,923 --> 00:46:20,083
You can let the exchanges hold them for you.

679
00:46:20,083 --> 00:46:22,983
And then you can get Mt. Gox or FTX.

680
00:46:23,603 --> 00:46:31,383
Same for the node. You can run your own start line or your own node directly, however you want to do it.

681
00:46:31,443 --> 00:46:39,723
And if you don't want to do this, you need to use someone else's website that can track all your data and sell it to someone else.

682
00:46:40,243 --> 00:46:50,483
And the same for mining. I mean, we are used to believe that mining is, as Bitcoiners, we are used to believe that mining is something that is done by someone else.

683
00:46:50,483 --> 00:47:06,763
We enjoy this fantastic monetary system that has limited supply, doesn't need anything else that a private key works just with mats, doesn't have borders.

684
00:47:07,763 --> 00:47:11,503
But then we said, yeah, but we can't be bothered with mining.

685
00:47:11,643 --> 00:47:18,063
We will let these people try to make a living mining it and we will never bother with it.

686
00:47:18,063 --> 00:47:25,763
I don't believe this is the correct way to see this mining at the end is the activity that secures the network.

687
00:47:26,103 --> 00:47:30,083
And since we are using it every day and we hold Bitcoin for the long term,

688
00:47:30,303 --> 00:47:35,843
we are the ones that are the most incentivized to pay for the security.

689
00:47:36,063 --> 00:47:37,843
And this is how I see it.

690
00:47:38,283 --> 00:47:43,343
Even though I'm not expecting to make any profit with my mining activity,

691
00:47:43,343 --> 00:47:47,903
I scale it to a level that I'm comfortable spending.

692
00:47:48,063 --> 00:47:53,623
And again, I'm also recycling my UTXOs into fresh ones.

693
00:47:53,863 --> 00:47:56,143
I'm just having fun with this.

694
00:47:56,303 --> 00:47:58,763
You can use it to signal support for forks.

695
00:47:59,443 --> 00:48:01,563
You could use it to bootstrap pools.

696
00:48:01,803 --> 00:48:04,143
Starting a new pool is something that is very difficult,

697
00:48:04,303 --> 00:48:06,943
but as these markets get more mature and developed,

698
00:48:07,523 --> 00:48:10,343
it will be more realistic for someone to say,

699
00:48:10,863 --> 00:48:12,363
well, I want to start a new pool,

700
00:48:12,363 --> 00:48:16,203
and for that I need to rent five exahashes for three months.

701
00:48:16,203 --> 00:48:19,623
because if I don't even have this capacity,

702
00:48:19,763 --> 00:48:21,183
my board will never take off.

703
00:48:21,283 --> 00:48:23,003
This is something that I predict

704
00:48:23,003 --> 00:48:25,283
will be easier to do in the future

705
00:48:25,283 --> 00:48:27,443
than it is now.

706
00:48:27,663 --> 00:48:31,103
And there are a lot of pool designs

707
00:48:31,103 --> 00:48:32,183
that are just theoretical.

708
00:48:32,443 --> 00:48:32,923
There is code,

709
00:48:33,043 --> 00:48:36,863
but no one has a plan to put this in practice

710
00:48:36,863 --> 00:48:39,303
because that requires entrepreneurial effort

711
00:48:39,303 --> 00:48:40,623
and risk, sorry.

712
00:48:41,423 --> 00:48:44,303
And very few people are willing to do this

713
00:48:44,303 --> 00:48:49,023
And this would be easier if these markets were more developed.

714
00:48:49,443 --> 00:48:56,763
And again, I predict that they will be because they are solving a useful problem for Bitcoiners.

715
00:48:57,463 --> 00:49:00,683
Yeah, I mean, let's try to go a little deeper here.

716
00:49:00,803 --> 00:49:07,443
I've had my thoughts, philosophical thoughts around what Bitcoin means long term.

717
00:49:07,443 --> 00:49:15,963
And one of the things I always talk about is how Bitcoiners are incentivized to help one another with practically everything.

718
00:49:16,623 --> 00:49:24,443
Because the sats live in our heads, because they're just information, and we all benefit from the value of Bitcoin going up.

719
00:49:25,543 --> 00:49:31,483
And that is just another way of saying the value of the people in Bitcoin going up.

720
00:49:31,483 --> 00:49:37,143
So we are very directly incentivized to help one another.

721
00:49:37,443 --> 00:49:41,543
I mean, I'm better off if you succeed with whatever you do in your life.

722
00:49:41,543 --> 00:49:45,223
And this is just the free market on steroids.

723
00:49:45,423 --> 00:49:50,403
So not only do we get like perfect free market competition because everything is voluntary,

724
00:49:50,403 --> 00:49:56,663
but we're also incentivized to just be good to one another, except for miners.

725
00:49:56,863 --> 00:50:02,883
And I think this has to do with mining being sort of co-opted by the fiat mindset.

726
00:50:02,883 --> 00:50:07,463
Since we plebs gave away mining to more fiat-minded people,

727
00:50:07,703 --> 00:50:10,223
miners are incentivized to do all sorts of shit,

728
00:50:10,363 --> 00:50:14,363
especially if they have access to cheaper fiat loans.

729
00:50:14,483 --> 00:50:17,303
And you get phenomena like Mara, for instance,

730
00:50:17,403 --> 00:50:19,083
who do shit all the time on the chain.

731
00:50:19,483 --> 00:50:22,303
And also, not to help other miners.

732
00:50:22,563 --> 00:50:27,183
They actually have an incentive to sneakily attack other miners

733
00:50:27,183 --> 00:50:28,883
the way it functions now.

734
00:50:28,883 --> 00:50:35,183
they are not at all in they're not playing the same game as we are where where everyone benefits

735
00:50:35,183 --> 00:50:41,683
from sats so what what you would want is miners that are actual bitcoiners at them that think in

736
00:50:41,683 --> 00:50:48,163
sats and that want sats to succeed long term and yeah maybe this is the path there maybe this is

737
00:50:48,163 --> 00:50:56,043
how we finally decentralize mining and make miners bitcoiners again i think this resonates with me

738
00:50:56,043 --> 00:51:02,463
key insights i think that the hashes and the the current pool operators are businessmen before

739
00:51:02,463 --> 00:51:09,463
bitcoiners and in fact i guess that a lot of hashes don't really understand bitcoin anything

740
00:51:09,463 --> 00:51:15,123
else that they heard okay i can do this investment and i can get a return on it and i will get my

741
00:51:15,123 --> 00:51:22,163
bitcoin directly on an exchange and i will sell it to pay for my electricity bills i'm 100 sure

742
00:51:22,163 --> 00:51:27,983
that a big chunk of the hash rate has people behind it, things like that.

743
00:51:28,863 --> 00:51:35,523
And for a long time, we argued that we need to make hashers become miners again.

744
00:51:36,383 --> 00:51:40,263
But recently, well, since I started thinking about all this,

745
00:51:40,423 --> 00:51:41,583
I decided that it's the opposite.

746
00:51:41,763 --> 00:51:43,323
We have to lean into this.

747
00:51:43,903 --> 00:51:46,063
We can have these people be businessmen

748
00:51:46,063 --> 00:51:50,983
and we can hire them to work for us instead of for pools.

749
00:51:50,983 --> 00:51:53,083
because pools are also businessmen.

750
00:51:53,143 --> 00:51:56,263
They are trying to pay them as little as possible

751
00:51:56,263 --> 00:51:57,743
to earn their own commission.

752
00:51:57,743 --> 00:52:01,743
So you really need to offer a cent more than FPPS pools

753
00:52:02,323 --> 00:52:06,443
to incentivize the hashes to work for you.

754
00:52:06,843 --> 00:52:09,403
And regarding helping one another,

755
00:52:09,563 --> 00:52:13,083
I think this is really embedded even in the protocol itself.

756
00:52:13,223 --> 00:52:14,623
When you are running your own node,

757
00:52:15,863 --> 00:52:18,703
it's not only you that is taking advantage of it.

758
00:52:18,903 --> 00:52:20,543
When you have your start line at home,

759
00:52:20,543 --> 00:52:26,703
You can browse your own private instance of the mempool without giving up your data.

760
00:52:27,463 --> 00:52:33,763
You can use it to broadcast Bitcoin transactions and you can use it to connect your wallets to it.

761
00:52:33,863 --> 00:52:36,103
And no one knows what you are doing.

762
00:52:36,183 --> 00:52:36,803
This is fantastic.

763
00:52:36,983 --> 00:52:45,643
But on top of that, your node is also sharing the full history of the blockchain to other nodes that are starting up,

764
00:52:45,643 --> 00:52:48,643
doing what is called EBD, initial block download.

765
00:52:48,643 --> 00:52:59,023
So in a way, running your own node is also paying forward to other people who are using the network or starting using it.

766
00:52:59,123 --> 00:53:03,303
Same one, you expose your node to the internet and it becomes a listening node.

767
00:53:03,423 --> 00:53:06,563
When you do this, this strengthens the network a lot.

768
00:53:07,043 --> 00:53:11,363
And for mining, when people like us get involved, I think it's similar.

769
00:53:11,363 --> 00:53:19,903
When Bitcoiners become pool operators, they can use this power to activate soft forks.

770
00:53:20,123 --> 00:53:20,963
That makes sense.

771
00:53:21,143 --> 00:53:32,183
They can use this power to discard stupid spammy transactions and leave more space in blocks for people who are trying to use the system.

772
00:53:32,343 --> 00:53:34,523
And at the end of the day, attacks.

773
00:53:36,143 --> 00:53:38,523
I mean, not to get conspiratorial.

774
00:53:38,523 --> 00:53:47,683
I don't have any idea if this is a state-level attack, but I'm sure that if the states at some point decide to attack Bitcoin, they cannot do this head-on.

775
00:53:47,903 --> 00:53:53,143
They won't say, OK, we are going to attack Bitcoin because they will fail.

776
00:53:53,143 --> 00:54:06,763
If they do this, it's something that cannot be stopped, but for sure it can be infiltrated and you can try to spread narratives, ideas that are not really beneficial to the system.

777
00:54:06,763 --> 00:54:10,123
and this has been happening a lot.

778
00:54:10,263 --> 00:54:12,143
Who is pushing this is difficult to know.

779
00:54:13,083 --> 00:54:15,083
But yeah, definitely,

780
00:54:15,423 --> 00:54:17,623
if you have screen in the game in Bitcoin,

781
00:54:17,763 --> 00:54:22,863
you want to be as much involved as it,

782
00:54:23,123 --> 00:54:27,683
as your screen in the game is in the system,

783
00:54:27,863 --> 00:54:28,683
I would say.

784
00:54:28,683 --> 00:54:31,883
Yeah, I mean, it is resistant.

785
00:54:32,843 --> 00:54:34,803
We are resistant, not the system itself.

786
00:54:34,843 --> 00:54:35,563
Yeah, exactly.

787
00:54:35,563 --> 00:54:38,223
The system is resistant because we are.

788
00:54:38,803 --> 00:54:47,423
Otherwise, if we are not vigilant here and if we're not acting the part, then it's not as resistant anymore.

789
00:54:48,123 --> 00:54:50,283
So that's what people miss.

790
00:54:50,503 --> 00:54:52,123
Like, who are you proving the work to?

791
00:54:52,543 --> 00:54:56,423
Like, what power do the plebs really have?

792
00:54:56,423 --> 00:55:05,383
And I guess we'll see here when BIP-110 finally launches in late July, early August.

793
00:55:05,383 --> 00:55:08,023
I think it is something like that, block height something something.

794
00:55:08,023 --> 00:55:08,983
I believe so.

795
00:55:08,983 --> 00:55:14,023
How do you see that play out, the game theory and everything?

796
00:55:14,023 --> 00:55:22,003
It's been said that we need around 10% of the nodes for this to work.

797
00:55:22,003 --> 00:55:26,263
But yeah, I have my own theories, but I'd love to hear yours.

798
00:55:26,263 --> 00:55:29,263
I'll be honest, I don't really know what will happen.

799
00:55:29,263 --> 00:55:32,903
I think it's a volatile situation like it was in 2010.

800
00:55:32,937 --> 00:55:41,357
17, people are saying, I think nowadays people are pretending to be very sure of what was

801
00:55:41,357 --> 00:55:42,757
supposed to happen back then.

802
00:55:42,937 --> 00:55:48,237
But when I was leaving it, I wasn't so sure at the time.

803
00:55:48,457 --> 00:55:50,877
And this feels similar.

804
00:55:50,877 --> 00:56:00,317
I can see the argument that 10% is enough, and especially if it's a grassroots movement

805
00:56:00,317 --> 00:56:04,137
of people using their nodes mining

806
00:56:04,137 --> 00:56:08,557
because, as I said, it takes an incredibly low number of people

807
00:56:08,557 --> 00:56:15,217
renting hash rate to move the needle to 10%.

808
00:56:15,217 --> 00:56:19,557
For instance, I think Matt Cratter did some math in his video

809
00:56:19,557 --> 00:56:20,957
that I checked and it was correct.

810
00:56:21,057 --> 00:56:26,317
It was like 8,000 people mining at 12 beta hashes

811
00:56:26,317 --> 00:56:30,117
and this had an expected cost of $10 per day,

812
00:56:30,117 --> 00:56:35,017
which is like what half a lunch in most of the development world.

813
00:56:35,597 --> 00:56:39,017
If at this stage we don't have 8,000 Bitcoiners,

814
00:56:39,157 --> 00:56:42,077
what the fuck are we doing anyway?

815
00:56:42,317 --> 00:56:48,557
So the only unknown to me is how elastic the supply of hash rate is

816
00:56:48,557 --> 00:56:55,537
because right now you cannot rent extra hashes in all these markets that I mentioned.

817
00:56:55,537 --> 00:57:02,457
But if more people go to them and they push the prices upward, why not?

818
00:57:02,597 --> 00:57:03,157
It could happen.

819
00:57:03,357 --> 00:57:10,617
And in fact, all the current pools, the FPPS pools, are in a good position to become high rate markets too.

820
00:57:10,717 --> 00:57:12,277
This is basically what Brains is doing.

821
00:57:12,457 --> 00:57:16,157
Brains is a pool that is about 20 exahashes.

822
00:57:17,057 --> 00:57:21,317
And when they launched, they were renting 5% of their total hash rate.

823
00:57:21,397 --> 00:57:23,697
And then they doubled to 10%.

824
00:57:23,697 --> 00:57:24,937
So now it's up to.

825
00:57:25,537 --> 00:57:37,877
But if all this is lapped up, I guess they will keep adding hash rate and maybe they will even call someone to point more hash rate at them to rent it out because it's profitable.

826
00:57:38,617 --> 00:57:48,157
At the end, as I said, we can lean on the fact that hashers are businessmen and they are trying to maximize their investments on their machines.

827
00:57:48,437 --> 00:57:54,957
And pool operators are also businessmen trying to make money and we can outbid them for a cent, for a dollar.

828
00:57:54,957 --> 00:57:56,417
I mean, it's trivial.

829
00:57:57,177 --> 00:57:57,257
Yeah.

830
00:57:57,697 --> 00:57:58,737
This is interesting.

831
00:57:58,877 --> 00:58:00,277
Sorry, one comment I want to say.

832
00:58:00,337 --> 00:58:04,477
This is interesting because it's the flip situation in the mempool.

833
00:58:04,597 --> 00:58:11,057
In the mempool, it's impossible for monetary transactions to outbid non-monetary transactions.

834
00:58:11,517 --> 00:58:14,797
But in the hazard markets, that is one level deeper.

835
00:58:15,477 --> 00:58:16,077
It's the opposite.

836
00:58:16,517 --> 00:58:24,217
Someone that is a shitcoiner that is trying to make money out of nothing will not have the patience to mine in the long term.

837
00:58:24,217 --> 00:58:32,617
But someone that is just paying for the security or for whatever other reason of the ones that we're discussing here,

838
00:58:32,737 --> 00:58:41,457
like stacking sats or getting clean OTFs, I think that on aggregate, these people will take over the market

839
00:58:41,457 --> 00:58:46,457
because they are, as you said, ideological miners.

840
00:58:46,457 --> 00:58:51,517
miners and basically what this means it gives you an advantage over people who are trying to

841
00:58:51,517 --> 00:59:00,177
to mine sorry to mine at a at a profit if you are willing to spend even one dollar a day you

842
00:59:00,177 --> 00:59:05,037
will end up with delivery of this car rate and since you now have data to gateway that can give

843
00:59:05,037 --> 00:59:10,797
instructions to at least power you can really consume it in a way that was not really possible

844
00:59:10,797 --> 00:59:12,437
until a year ago.

845
00:59:13,257 --> 00:59:14,757
I mean, it basically

846
00:59:14,757 --> 00:59:16,277
has the same function as

847
00:59:16,277 --> 00:59:18,957
paying for a coin join, for instance.

848
00:59:19,457 --> 00:59:21,137
Yeah, exactly. Because you're getting

849
00:59:21,137 --> 00:59:23,317
KYC free sets. Maybe not as private,

850
00:59:23,457 --> 00:59:25,237
but almost. Let me give a disclaimer.

851
00:59:25,357 --> 00:59:27,437
It's not as private as a coin join

852
00:59:27,437 --> 00:59:29,257
because Brains has a lot of

853
00:59:29,257 --> 00:59:31,337
information, and it's possible

854
00:59:31,337 --> 00:59:33,217
to connect the dots looking at

855
00:59:33,217 --> 00:59:35,537
the order book and at the

856
00:59:35,537 --> 00:59:36,597
OSAN dashboard.

857
00:59:37,357 --> 00:59:38,957
You can configure that

858
00:59:38,957 --> 00:59:55,163
to be quite private but even then I think it shouldn be marketed as a co alternative even though of course for someone who is just looking at the blockchain it impossible to link one thing for another

859
00:59:55,323 --> 00:59:56,843
But if you look at the right things,

860
00:59:57,043 --> 01:00:00,043
there's some things that could be done for privacy,

861
01:00:00,363 --> 01:00:02,203
to improve the privacy that we have right now.

862
01:00:02,263 --> 01:00:04,263
But again, this is all very new,

863
01:00:04,483 --> 01:00:07,943
and these things didn't get a lot of interest until now.

864
01:00:07,943 --> 01:00:10,923
So I think that they will improve over time.

865
01:00:10,923 --> 01:00:24,723
Yeah, let's hope it does. And it's beautiful what you said there about the demand for block space might be higher for non-monetary transactions than monetary transactions.

866
01:00:25,383 --> 01:00:33,403
But at the deeper level, it flips for hash power. And that's just beautiful if that's the way things play out.

867
01:00:33,403 --> 01:00:41,823
Yeah, since I'm having you on, I have a theory about the, and this may dox my lack of technical skill here.

868
01:00:42,283 --> 01:00:44,343
No problem. Let's fix it up.

869
01:00:44,343 --> 01:00:59,423
So the way I understand it, and I might be completely wrong here, but after BIP-110 activates, you as a miner, you can still like mine compliant blocks by just adjusting your mempool policies, right?

870
01:00:59,423 --> 01:01:02,763
so you don't really need to signal for the fork.

871
01:01:02,903 --> 01:01:04,863
You can just adjust your mempool policies

872
01:01:04,863 --> 01:01:07,763
to only allow compliant transactions.

873
01:01:08,003 --> 01:01:08,923
Am I right about that?

874
01:01:09,683 --> 01:01:12,583
Yeah, I mean, it's a soft fork.

875
01:01:12,583 --> 01:01:14,523
So if you don't update your node,

876
01:01:14,883 --> 01:01:19,343
it will keep accepting the fork chain.

877
01:01:19,583 --> 01:01:22,563
But if you don't adjust your mempool policy,

878
01:01:22,983 --> 01:01:25,203
your node will probably pick up transactions

879
01:01:25,203 --> 01:01:27,423
that are not compliant with all the rules.

880
01:01:27,463 --> 01:01:28,223
Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.

881
01:01:28,223 --> 01:01:45,703
This is my question to you. Can you just adjust the mempool policies instead of running the actual soft fork software? Can you just update your mempool settings, policy settings, so that you only get compliant transactions?

882
01:01:45,703 --> 01:01:47,003
Yes, yes, absolutely.

883
01:01:47,323 --> 01:02:01,743
Yes, because if miners do that instead of signaling for the fork for one reason or another, then you may get a scenario where you get compliant blocks for X amount of time, and then there's one non-compliant blocks.

884
01:02:01,743 --> 01:02:16,103
And after the non-compliant block, this is really where the tricky part starts, because then the next miner will have to choose, am I going to build on top of the chain that is compliant or the chain that is now non-compliant?

885
01:02:16,103 --> 01:02:29,383
But my idea here is that even if that miner starts building on the block that's non-compliant and that becomes the dominant chain, there's no real reason for them to change the mempool settings again.

886
01:02:30,043 --> 01:02:31,403
So that he could just keep on.

887
01:02:32,383 --> 01:02:38,203
So I'm saying even if the fork fails, there are very few reasons to not just keep mining compliant blocks.

888
01:02:38,363 --> 01:02:39,163
What do you say to that?

889
01:02:39,623 --> 01:02:42,283
Is this just me being a retard?

890
01:02:42,283 --> 01:02:54,143
Well, I mean, the first question, obviously, you could, for instance, turn blocks only one on your mining node and you would be mining empty blocks and they would be valid.

891
01:02:54,143 --> 01:02:58,543
So you are trivially respecting the new rules.

892
01:02:59,643 --> 01:03:07,383
In the end, I think that miners are really not interested, really, miners nor anyone, to have chain splits.

893
01:03:07,383 --> 01:03:18,583
And I don't know if the threshold is 10% or 20% or whatever to scare miners into compliance.

894
01:03:18,583 --> 01:03:37,203
But basically, if the rules are being enforced by a majority of the hash rate, it doesn't really make sense to include non-compliant transactions in any block.

895
01:03:37,383 --> 01:03:41,923
I don't know. Maybe I didn't understand the question about it,

896
01:03:41,923 --> 01:03:46,143
but how I see it is that the fork either activates or not.

897
01:03:46,223 --> 01:03:51,943
And if it activates, the majority of the hash rate is enforcing the rules.

898
01:03:51,943 --> 01:03:54,323
And that's about it.

899
01:03:54,323 --> 01:04:08,989
Haven talked much more deep than that in tricky cases Do you want to expand a bit on this scenario Yeah of course you can set your mempool policies to not accept anything but that not what I meant

900
01:04:08,989 --> 01:04:13,749
I meant like if you as a miner choose to do these settings

901
01:04:13,749 --> 01:04:17,309
as like the game theory of this is like

902
01:04:17,309 --> 01:04:20,689
there's no risk at all to mine compliant blocks, right?

903
01:04:20,789 --> 01:04:24,129
The only risk is when you start mining non-compliant blocks.

904
01:04:24,749 --> 01:04:26,209
So if you're a compliant miner,

905
01:04:26,789 --> 01:04:31,609
And the fork fails.

906
01:04:31,889 --> 01:04:35,269
So there's a non-compliant block somewhere down the line.

907
01:04:35,869 --> 01:04:39,209
And there simply aren't enough people doing this.

908
01:04:39,469 --> 01:04:43,529
So the smaller chain gets discarded quickly.

909
01:04:43,529 --> 01:04:44,989
I'm claiming that.

910
01:04:45,189 --> 01:04:50,809
So my question is, would miners still be incentivized to mine compliant blocks anyway?

911
01:04:50,809 --> 01:04:59,489
just because they already have their nodes, their node settings that way, and that way they won't piss off people.

912
01:04:59,489 --> 01:05:11,009
So I guess the question is, is there a reason to keep mining compliant blocks even if the fork fails at some point?

913
01:05:12,709 --> 01:05:19,149
Okay, for me failing is that it never manages in overtaking the pre-fork chain.

914
01:05:19,149 --> 01:05:26,329
If this never happens, there's no incentive, I believe, to stay in this chain.

915
01:05:26,989 --> 01:05:29,949
It doesn't happen in, I don't know, years.

916
01:05:30,389 --> 01:05:36,289
But if this chain exists, I mean, if we go to late July, early August,

917
01:05:36,409 --> 01:05:39,869
when the new rules are starting to be enforced,

918
01:05:40,609 --> 01:05:43,829
if there are absolutely no blocks at all and there is no fork,

919
01:05:43,889 --> 01:05:46,029
obviously it's failed completely.

920
01:05:46,029 --> 01:05:51,749
but let's say that you have 10% of hash rate by then on that fork.

921
01:05:51,909 --> 01:05:57,789
This fork will have a very low difficulty compared to the other one.

922
01:05:58,529 --> 01:06:03,149
So you will get a lot more sats for the same hash rate there.

923
01:06:03,389 --> 01:06:06,869
So I guess some people will be incentivized to do this

924
01:06:06,869 --> 01:06:13,309
just on a monetary perspective to get more sats.

925
01:06:13,309 --> 01:06:26,329
And in doing so, they are increasing the hash rate of the fork and making the other fork less secure as more people defect to the soft fork.

926
01:06:26,789 --> 01:06:28,129
The other can be wiped out.

927
01:06:28,229 --> 01:06:37,769
And the one that is stayed for the longest time on the pre-fork chain loses everything that has been mined since the moment that there was a split.

928
01:06:37,769 --> 01:06:40,529
and I don't know, maybe if you throw

929
01:06:40,529 --> 01:06:42,549
random people into the mix

930
01:06:42,549 --> 01:06:44,489
taking up extra

931
01:06:44,489 --> 01:06:45,389
hashes of

932
01:06:45,389 --> 01:06:47,789
hashrate, maybe

933
01:06:47,789 --> 01:06:50,029
the needle can move

934
01:06:50,029 --> 01:06:52,449
but anyway, everything that we've been

935
01:06:52,449 --> 01:06:54,429
talking about, rating hashrate

936
01:06:54,429 --> 01:06:56,349
and such, it's something that even

937
01:06:56,349 --> 01:06:58,289
if BIP-1110 wasn't

938
01:06:58,289 --> 01:07:00,349
in the picture, would be a good

939
01:07:00,349 --> 01:07:02,509
development for Bitcoin to decentralize

940
01:07:02,509 --> 01:07:04,389
mining. It's something that I

941
01:07:04,389 --> 01:07:05,849
believe needs to

942
01:07:05,849 --> 01:07:08,769
needs to happen to strengthen the network.

943
01:07:09,569 --> 01:07:10,109
Yeah, absolutely.

944
01:07:10,289 --> 01:07:15,189
I think it's even more important really than BIP-110.

945
01:07:15,789 --> 01:07:16,969
At least in the long run,

946
01:07:18,169 --> 01:07:20,969
miner centralization is the bigger risk, always was.

947
01:07:21,609 --> 01:07:24,129
In fact, this is happening because of mining centralization.

948
01:07:24,689 --> 01:07:25,809
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

949
01:07:25,809 --> 01:07:31,049
The fork is just a symptom of people reacting to mining being centralized

950
01:07:31,049 --> 01:07:35,769
or the bigger problem, which is also the core is now

951
01:07:35,769 --> 01:07:44,169
seemingly giving up and uh starting to working for the ripples basically yeah so no uh super

952
01:07:44,169 --> 01:07:50,409
interesting and uh i urge anyone and everyone to go deeper into these things and actually to start

953
01:07:50,409 --> 01:07:59,609
uh i i think i'm gonna take whatever whatever uh uh yeah i i can find here on brains and and um

954
01:07:59,609 --> 01:08:11,049
direct it to Ocean and start mining and signaling for BIP 110 that way and not only through

955
01:08:11,049 --> 01:08:23,576
my very non node at the moment This is also a way to convert your node in an economic node because if you are getting mining payouts every few days

956
01:08:23,636 --> 01:08:26,836
of course, you are verifying incoming transactions all the time.

957
01:08:27,036 --> 01:08:27,456
Exactly.

958
01:08:27,456 --> 01:08:32,856
So then Stefan Levera can't call me a virtue signaler

959
01:08:32,856 --> 01:08:36,676
at the next conference, and that would be nice, of course.

960
01:08:36,676 --> 01:08:43,296
but i can still call him a suit coiner so that's uh i'm fine definitely

961
01:08:43,296 --> 01:08:52,136
yeah okay uh marcel's any any more anything else that we haven't discussed yet that you

962
01:08:52,136 --> 01:09:01,276
want to bring up uh i'm not sure i we talk about bp 110 we talk about the renting hash rate how

963
01:09:01,276 --> 01:09:08,136
that one works i don't know can't think of anything else right now how about you uh no i think this is

964
01:09:08,136 --> 01:09:13,495
a a good point to round it out wait is there anywhere on the internet where you want to send

965
01:09:13,495 --> 01:09:19,636
people like resources except for the things we have already maybe repeat the things we've already

966
01:09:19,636 --> 01:09:28,016
said what was that hash for yeah the the three websites where you can uh run hash rate uh as i

967
01:09:28,016 --> 01:09:29,556
ranked them anyway

968
01:09:29,556 --> 01:09:31,836
would be brains. All things considered

969
01:09:31,836 --> 01:09:34,176
is the easiest way to do this.

970
01:09:34,756 --> 01:09:35,676
Brains, then there's

971
01:09:35,676 --> 01:09:37,916
mining rentals and finally there's

972
01:09:37,916 --> 01:09:39,495
nice hash that requires

973
01:09:39,495 --> 01:09:41,596
KYC. You can

974
01:09:41,596 --> 01:09:43,616
check them out depending on

975
01:09:43,616 --> 01:09:45,776
what you want. If you want

976
01:09:45,776 --> 01:09:47,495
a guide, there's a

977
01:09:47,495 --> 01:09:48,276
ransom hash.

978
01:09:49,776 --> 01:09:50,856
What else

979
01:09:50,856 --> 01:09:52,796
have we been talking about?

980
01:09:53,016 --> 01:09:55,296
You can find me on Twitter

981
01:09:55,296 --> 01:09:57,056
if you search for

982
01:09:57,056 --> 01:09:59,276
and hosted Marcelus.

983
01:10:00,056 --> 01:10:05,036
And I also run a local Bitcoin-only meetup in Barcelona.

984
01:10:05,036 --> 01:10:10,756
We gather every month to talk about one topic at a time.

985
01:10:11,596 --> 01:10:13,596
It's called Barcelona Bitcoin Only.

986
01:10:13,896 --> 01:10:17,336
You can search on the Internet also if you are in Barcelona

987
01:10:17,336 --> 01:10:18,476
and want to reach out.

988
01:10:18,636 --> 01:10:23,036
And also, next month, we will be doing a larger conference

989
01:10:23,776 --> 01:10:26,716
that will be two days long in late May.

990
01:10:26,716 --> 01:10:29,856
and it will be called the Barcelona Ciphers Conference.

991
01:10:30,076 --> 01:10:33,536
You can also look this up if you want to come.

992
01:10:33,615 --> 01:10:36,916
We will talk about not just Bitcoin, but sovereignty in general,

993
01:10:37,216 --> 01:10:40,516
like permaculture and a lot of topics.

994
01:10:40,676 --> 01:10:44,176
It will be the second edition of this conference.

995
01:10:44,276 --> 01:10:47,375
Will there be shitcoinery?

996
01:10:47,796 --> 01:10:49,176
No, no, no, absolutely not.

997
01:10:49,276 --> 01:10:50,316
Okay, good to hear that.

998
01:10:50,316 --> 01:10:50,736
Not allowed.

999
01:10:50,736 --> 01:10:58,115
And which of the 69 languages that you speak up in that region will these things be in?

1000
01:10:59,356 --> 01:11:02,216
The Spanish and English, basically.

1001
01:11:02,436 --> 01:11:03,416
Spanish and English, okay.

1002
01:11:03,716 --> 01:11:10,495
We also speak Catalan, but we don't have any talks in Catalan, I think so.

1003
01:11:10,856 --> 01:11:12,176
So yeah, feel free to come.

1004
01:11:12,176 --> 01:11:15,936
In the first edition, we had a lot of people from abroad.

1005
01:11:16,796 --> 01:11:20,936
And I think everyone else was happy about it.

1006
01:11:21,076 --> 01:11:22,156
We had a lot of fun.

1007
01:11:22,476 --> 01:11:26,316
Do me a favor, Willio, and keep me updated on all these things and the dates and stuff.

1008
01:11:26,436 --> 01:11:32,956
And I'll try to come up one of the dates and see how we can make that work.

1009
01:11:34,036 --> 01:11:38,056
So it's brains with two eyes in it?

1010
01:11:38,336 --> 01:11:39,916
Yes, it has power brains.

1011
01:11:39,916 --> 01:11:42,396
because they are a pool, but this is a separate series

1012
01:11:42,396 --> 01:11:43,536
that it's called HashPower.

1013
01:11:43,536 --> 01:11:46,736
Yeah, so if you go to brains.com,

1014
01:11:47,436 --> 01:11:50,816
you'll find under products, you'll find Brains HashPower,

1015
01:11:51,136 --> 01:11:54,636
which is in beta right now, but that's where you find it.

1016
01:11:54,796 --> 01:11:55,816
Yeah, so it looks cool.

1017
01:11:56,696 --> 01:11:58,176
And I'll see what I can do here.

1018
01:11:59,375 --> 01:12:01,296
It's going to be fun to fiddle around with this.

1019
01:12:01,416 --> 01:12:03,296
I'm just going to have to find the time somehow.

1020
01:12:05,115 --> 01:12:05,516
Yes.

1021
01:12:05,676 --> 01:12:09,236
Anyway, Ghost of Unhosted Marcellus,

1022
01:12:09,236 --> 01:12:11,756
thank you very much for coming on to my show.

1023
01:12:12,076 --> 01:12:15,476
And I hope to see you in real life soon

1024
01:12:15,476 --> 01:12:18,995
and keep fighting the good fight on Twitter.

1025
01:12:19,956 --> 01:12:20,356
Thank you.

1026
01:12:20,596 --> 01:12:21,436
Thanks for having me.

1027
01:12:21,556 --> 01:12:22,016
Had a blast.

1028
01:12:23,076 --> 01:12:23,916
Good to hear.

1029
01:12:24,296 --> 01:12:26,296
This has been the Bitcoin Infinity Show.

1030
01:12:26,556 --> 01:12:27,776
Don't forget to brush your teeth.

1031
01:12:28,296 --> 01:12:28,936
Over and out.

1032
01:12:29,875 --> 01:12:30,256
Bye-bye.