Building Bitcoin Tools for Business with Pierre Corbin | Bitcoin Infinity Show #200

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Pierre, welcome to the Bitcoin Infinity Show. Nice to have you here.

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Hey, Knut. Thanks a lot. It's very nice to be here.

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Yes, we go way back. When was the first time we met, actually?

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I think it was 2022, I think.

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Yes, actually, I do remember. So I released my film in January 2022.

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And there was the Bitcoin conference in Miami.

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and you were kind enough to join for the screening that I organized

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and also join a post-screening panel together with a couple other people.

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Oh, yes. I think I was on stage with Svetsky, if I remember correctly.

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Maybe it was... No, no, it was John Ballas.

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Ben. No, Ben from BTC Sessions.

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Yes, you were on stage with John Ballas as well,

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but as part of a Bitcoin Film Fest event, and that was in Madeira.

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Okay, okay, okay. So I'm mixing the two up.

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Yeah, it was me and Ben.

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Yeah, and talking about the film and everything.

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Yeah, that was a beautiful film.

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And after that, you've done the Film Fest for a couple of years.

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That's right, yes.

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And that's happening again this year, as I understand it, in June, right?

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Yeah, that's right.

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So the first edition was in 2023.

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And I think so, yeah, 2023.

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And now is June 4th to 7th as the next edition of the Bitcoin Film Fest, which I'm pretty excited about.

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Yeah, cool.

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is it still in that uh gotham city looking building building in the middle of warsaw yeah

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that's right yeah the palace of culture and science yeah it's still right and they're right

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in the middle yeah we have a great cinema partner so uh yeah happy it can happen there

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yeah as no as warsaw is super cool it's such a mixture of different eras and uh that building

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in particular is uh both scary and beautiful at the same time yeah well and actually i know that

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this year the priority was you know because because every month the first time the film

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film has happened was in in march then it was in april then last year it was in may and this year

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it's in june uh trying to you know get make sure that there will actually be full sun and nice

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temperature outside is kind of what the team has been chasing yeah probably a good idea but uh i i

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know you're not as involved with the the film fest this time around uh but you are involved with other

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stuff can you like and i don't think you've been on the show before so so let our listeners have a

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listen to a tldr on pierre corbyn please uh other than our brief history yes yes definitely

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so you know i used to be a management consultant working for big corporations i quit that in 2021

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because i just wanted to focus on bitcoin whatever that meant i guess that's kind of what we all go

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through. Yeah, the first thing I did was just a Bitcoin documentary. I always was very much into

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filmmaking and wanted to do my own things. And so, you know, after thinking too much about Bitcoin,

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and I guess like many Bitcoiners wanting to just talk about it, I decided to make a full film.

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It released in January 2022 and it was quite a hit. I mean, now it's one of the most watched

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Bitcoin documentaries on YouTube. It's got overall channels over two and a half million views,

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which I'm very proud of.

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Yeah, in doing that, I got into the Bitcoin community.

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I met different individuals that, you know, helped me just build more things as well.

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I started another documentary project and started the Bitcoin Film Fest,

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like you mentioned, with a great team here in Warsaw.

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And, you know, one thing led to the other.

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A friend of mine reached out saying, hey, Pierre, let's try and build something.

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There's opportunity here.

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I said, okay, but let's try and do something in Bitcoin.

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So the first thing we did was that actually you were also involved in that

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because you kindly allowed us to use your books and you shared them with me

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so that we could upload them to an AI.

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That was the first Bitcoin AI called Talk to Satoshi.

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I don't know if you remember that.

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Yeah, is that the spirit of Satoshi or Talk to Satoshi?

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No, it was before that.

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Yeah, Talk to Satoshi.

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We had it ready for about four or five months.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, so my books have been used for two different AIs at this point.

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That's great.

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Yes, yes, yes.

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And so those are a really fun project.

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But then essentially as part of it, what we added was because we were covering all the API costs when it comes to all the AI elements.

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And so we thought, okay, let's add a tipping mechanism, allowing people to just send us sats directly.

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So, you know, you could like send tip and it would generate a QR code that was a lightning payment.

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And that was cool.

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That was exciting.

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That's the first time that we programmatically added Bitcoin payments onto a platform.

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And so we thought, okay, well, maybe that's, and it was complicated.

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Maybe that's something that we should explore and try and simplify for others.

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And so, yeah, many different projects came along, to be honest.

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But one major technology that we were very excited about back then was NostroWallConnect.

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It allows for direct debit and just made easier the entire flow of generating this QR code as part of an interface.

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And so we launched Flash with the use of this technology first, trying to bring together different payment methods.

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The first more innovative product that we had was subscriptions, allowing for Bitcoin subscriptions native,

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allowing for peer-to-peer payments directly, thanks to this tech.

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And yeah, we're kind of in a transition phase now, shifting priorities, but in the space of payments, just bringing in more treasury management as we see that this is the real problem that businesses are trying to solve, even with accepting Bitcoin payments.

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So that's kind of, I think, the TLDR.

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All right.

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So what is your view on strategic reserves in general?

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Like, what's your take on that?

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And is it real Bitcoin or is it paper Bitcoin?

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What is this?

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I can't tell.

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My guess is there's a mix, right?

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I feel like it's difficult for a big company in particular, right?

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Because there's different types of businesses that will hold different types of reserves.

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But I believe that if what a business is accumulating is only ETFs, if all they're doing is buying on these big platforms and only relying on custodial solutions,

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And I'm pretty sure there's a high chance there's fake or so-called paper Bitcoin in their hands rather than actual Bitcoin.

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Because the only way to actually have your Bitcoin and making sure that it is real Bitcoin is to hold it in self-custody, right?

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So I think it's likely a big blend of the two.

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What do you think?

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Yeah, I absolutely agree.

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And also, the way I envision the future and post-hyper-bitchronization, a company is just a group.

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That's all a company needs to be because all of a sudden you don't need to do accounting and all of this other stuff anymore.

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Not in the same way as on a fiat standard because you don't need to pay taxes anymore.

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At least this is the utopian vision I have.

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And all of this is possible right now.

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You could just do stuff with your friends.

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Of course, that's kind of hard to scale in the world we live in, where there are fiat hurdles to everything.

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But I think the end goal is to just get everyone on a Bitcoin standard and make collaboration, which is really what the company is.

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It's just people doing shit and collaborating with one another.

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And making that simpler is one of the end goals of Bitcoin.

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Like that's if you have uncensurable money that no one can touch you and no one can even know about if you use them properly, then I mean, to me, that's where we're trying to get.

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We're trying to get away from all the fiat rails.

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So when I see strategic reserve companies that buy on Coinbase and all of this and they get vetted by this and that authority, it's sort of missing the deeper points of Bitcoin.

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It was inevitable, I guess, because we're living in a fiat world.

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We're living in a world with big institutions and big government.

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And if you want to be a big company and have a big impact, you still have to play by those rules.

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But I think gradually and then suddenly that will disappear and we'll go more into people just doing stuff.

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And I mean, I always have this analogy that what I'm looking forward to is the final scene of Fight Club,

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where he's just shot himself in the face

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and he stands there with his girlfriend

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and all the credit card companies are crumbling.

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Their skyscrapers just fall down

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and there's this great Pixies song.

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Pixies in the background.

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That's what I'm looking forward to,

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not the credit card companies

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being on a semi-Bitcoin standard.

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Yeah, no, I understand.

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And I agree.

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And I think, you know, that's the goal.

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And essentially that's kind of the future state

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that we're already living in, right?

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It's the reality that we're trying to build

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for ourselves and to build for others as well.

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Unfortunately, it does come with a big transition phase

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and these regulators in power

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are not so keen on letting go of the control

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they currently have trying to reproduce it

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in this digital world.

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But I think these are elements that over time

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are likely to change.

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After all, as long as what we focus on

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is being able to get businesses

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or individuals, of course, because it's all the same,

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in self-custody, I think this is the important part is being able to move away from custody to

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self-custody because this allows people to have full control. And beyond full control is also,

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you know, the benefits that you were talking about when you're saying that, you know, everything can

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just be a big telegram chat is essentially because of the natural auditability that comes with Bitcoin,

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right? It's the fact that you don't need accounting because it's self-audited every 10 minutes,

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essentially. And all of this, especially in a world where the AI can be just automated

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in such an easy and efficient way, providing more visibility to everyone at every single

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step of the payment process and where payments are actually flowing rather than the black

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space that is the fiat payment rail that you send a payment out into the world and you

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just kind of hope waits until until it happens you can't you can't see it you can't track it and

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and I think that that's the kind of visibility elements that we're really trying to focus on

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at flash right now because this is you know what we're seeing businesses struggle with

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is being able to understand where their money is and what kind of decisions they can make with with

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this money now of course most businesses they still get paid in in fiat and so you know we have

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to be able to help them to get this fiat over into Bitcoin and then into self-custody as well.

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So we can just, I think, bring this goal closer.

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Okay, so give me an overview of how Flash works.

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Like, what is Flash?

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Like, maybe the, what would that be?

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LDR, not TLDR, but it can be long.

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Like, how does it work under the hood?

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Yeah.

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So, I mean, under the hood right now, as I said, you know, we're moving over to a treasury

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platform. So this is early access. So we're only working with a handful of businesses. We've got

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five onboarding now and we're opening for another five. And then, you know, so next month, and then

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finally another 10 before we start to scale this a bit more. And what we're onboarding businesses

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onto is a new platform completely where they can just create an account and they need to go

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in order to accept fiat payments. This is one of the things that they can do. They can, you know,

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they go through a simple KYB process.

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We have a great partner that also just walks them through that,

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adds this visibility.

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Same thing, you know, the KYB processes of you just throw your information out there

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and you don't know what's going to happen with it.

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Well, that's one element that we're selling thanks to this partnership.

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That is, it is there for this process, explaining why this or that information is needed

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and walk businesses through it.

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And essentially, once a business is on our platform,

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well, they can connect a Bitcoin wallet.

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So just in putting their on-chain address or an XPUB, they can connect their Lightning address as well.

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And they're capable of generating invoices.

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And it allows them to receive payments in Bitcoin and also in Lightning, as well as in the US, fiat payments, which are ACH transfers and credit card payments.

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So all in one invoicing kind of properly built in.

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Now, the difference with what we're doing now, the public platform and what we're transitioning away from, is that this is a treasury platform, meaning that the dashboard is only about how much Bitcoin you have on your on-chain address, how has it been evolving, what purchases you had, what income you had, and being able to monitor all of this in one place and control it.

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The end goal that we have is, of course, allowing businesses to receive a fiat payment and have a portion of that automatically converted to Bitcoin.

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Because, again, one of the issues that businesses that accept Bitcoin payments are having is that their goal is to accept Bitcoin payments to accumulate more Bitcoin and build their own small treasury reserves, regardless of the size of the business here.

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But they're now receiving these payments at the level that they would want to.

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So, you know, the goal is, well, if I start accepting Bitcoin payments, well, then 10% of my payments are going to come in Bitcoin.

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So 10% of my revenue is going to be accumulated into Bitcoin and this growing over time.

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But the fact is that in the end you know they go through the whole setup and they get one or two payments in a month And so their goals aren being met here And in talking with our users you know we ran different surveys different conversations and over 80 of our users said that they would want a tool that

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allows them to automatically convert some of their fiat revenue into Bitcoin. And we thought, okay,

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that's a big number. We have to go down that route and talk with more businesses about it.

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Now, on top of that, there's also the fiat payments, the fact that there's big demand for stablecoin payments as well.

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So over 90% of our users also said that they wanted a platform that allows them to have fiat, Bitcoin, stablecoin all in one place together with automated conversion.

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So that's what we want to be able to help businesses with.

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All right. And are you collaborating with any other similar services?

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I know there's a handful of companies doing similar things.

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Musket, for instance, in the UK, I think, are onto a similar thing.

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And other payment processors.

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How's the landscape there?

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Are you guys talking to one another?

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That's just one example.

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No, of course, yeah.

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I think there's more.

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There's also in the US, there's Castle that I think are interesting.

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And even Square, in fact, are allowing to do something like that, right?

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where they allowed to convert these payments directly into Bitcoin.

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You know, the difference that we're trying to build here

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is that it's, you know, it's not a plugin.

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It's all built in and it's treasury focused.

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Payments is just what powers it.

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But payments come second, right?

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Customer journey that we want to be able to have

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is a business comes over to the platform.

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He buys some Bitcoin, you know,

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unlocks his first level of trust.

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Okay, I can actually buy Bitcoin and take it into cold storage

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if I want to, then they try an invoice or the other payment tools that we're going to be

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bringing over to the platform.

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She's okay, I can get paid, whether it's in Bitcoin or in fiat, these payments do end up

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in my own wallet or in my bank account.

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And then the next step is, okay, let's now unlock some automation.

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And so that's the full journey that we can offer that is different than the one that these

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others are trying to approach because they're going from payments first, whereas we want to

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be able to talk about treasury first. Yeah, I have some interesting questions about

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attitudes towards competition in Bitcoin, because if we get a bit more on the philosophical side,

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so the power of the free market is that you have competition and therefore all prices are dropping

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forever. If you're using the Bitcoin lens, you can see this happening in real time and you can see

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that the true nature of the free market is deflationary, right?

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So we love competition because it lowers prices.

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But on a Bitcoin standard, I don't see why Bitcoin companies,

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that's like the free market with a turbocharger

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because Bitcoin companies are actually incentivized

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to collaborate and help one another rather than compete

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because we all want the same end goal, which is number go up.

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and Bitcoin's being worth more in the future.

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So anyone holding any stack is sort of incentivized

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to help everyone else in the space.

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Is this something you think about as a company

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and when deciding who not to collaborate with?

242
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What are your thoughts around this?

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I mean, essentially, yeah, I think that's very important.

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And I agree with this completely.

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If we manage to build a product that adds more value or simplifies access to Bitcoin, well, then, of course, we're adding value to the Bitcoin network and community.

246
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And other businesses doing the same thing are also, of course, bringing this extra value.

247
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So at Flash, we've had a lot of different collaborations in the past where we've tried to build things with other businesses and bring it together, especially very community focused companies.

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companies. So if you think of, for example, Fetty, they've got these mods that can be added, right?

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So we already had a point of sale solution. So that's in what's currently public, where it's

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only really focused on payments. So we had a point of sale solution directly, can have an online store,

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all of this. All we needed to do is make sure that it is, and that's, of course, after conversations

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with the guys from Fetty, all we needed to do is make sure that it properly accepts Lightning

253
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addresses, which is super simple because before that we were only focused on Lost and

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War Connect, as well as being able to make sure it is properly mobile responsive.

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And so Flash is installed as a mod inside of Fetty, allowing for anyone to just accept

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payments this way.

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And in this case, it's completely free.

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In fact, we're not taking any kind of fee and there's no subscription on our side or

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any way.

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It's really just, you know, the guys from Fetty said, OK, we're trying to bring more

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value to our communities.

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What can we do about it?

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Well, yeah, let's build a point of sale solution

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that is completely compatible with your application.

265
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And so, you know, we're looking for different collaboration opportunities like that

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because it just, you know, if we can bring more utility,

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then it just makes Bitcoin more useful.

268
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And when it comes to our more direct competitors,

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generally speaking, yeah, we do try to talk with everyone.

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I think, you know, what's interesting

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and what I think is always great with the Bitcoin community

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is that, you know, you can go to a new place,

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join a Bitcoin meetup and you know that you'll be friends with these people because like,

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or at least you're going to get along because we've got this, you know, shared philosophy

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about the world and how things work.

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So it simplifies these, you know, first level conversations that you can have with people.

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And it's true also among founders.

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And so we often, you know, exchange with different founders, see what, just catch up, of course,

279
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seeing what they see in the market, how are things evolving, whatever the topic, communications,

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applications, application traction, different technology and how this evolves.

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And we're kind of all trying to understand our way around that.

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So, so much changes, right?

283
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We started Flash focusing really on this one tech called Nostra Wild Connect.

284
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And in this new platform, we haven't even integrated it at all for now.

285
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It's going to come obviously because it unlocks subscriptions, it unlocks, again, direct debit

286
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in Bitcoin, which we think is very interesting.

287
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But at this stage, we, you know, we even realized, okay, well, that's not actually solving the problem that businesses have.

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So that's where we need to be able to go around that.

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And a lot of that is learning through conversations with other founders, including competitors.

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So I think it's great, you know, because we all have this positive attitude towards, well, we're actually all trying to build something useful for the market that we're working in.

291
00:20:37,315 --> 00:20:41,775
Yeah. And speaking on Nostar, what are your predictions for Nostar?

292
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Where do you see Nostr going this coming decade?

293
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Is it just treading water?

294
00:20:50,235 --> 00:20:52,535
What's happening on the Nostr side?

295
00:20:52,535 --> 00:20:58,735
Well, yeah, recently I've been a bit more detached from Nostr directly, so I don't necessarily

296
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go on to Nostr.

297
00:21:00,535 --> 00:21:02,455
I'm just used to using X, right?

298
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So although I have to say that X has changed compared to when I recently joined X, which

299
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So I joined in 2020, I think, and I joined just for the Bitcoin space.

300
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And so I was like my ex accounts and feed was only about Bitcoin stuff.

301
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This changed a lot.

302
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I don't know, algorithms, maybe also my profile involved.

303
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But I feel like the community is now more scattered than it used to be.

304
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And I'm sure part of that is also on Nostr.

305
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But I mean, yeah, I just I don't take the time to log into Nostr rarely.

306
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So as a social network, I think it's going to take some time to evolve.

307
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But I believe that in the end, if the other aspects of Nostr are adopted, then I think it will also work as a social network.

308
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Now, what other aspects do I mean?

309
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I think one that is very interesting and I think is going to be much more important, especially now.

310
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And I've been predicting this for a while now, but I think especially with the world of AI that we're seeing now, AI content.

311
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And so essentially what I think is very interesting with Noster is that you have your identity.

312
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You have a public key that only you can sign events for using your private key.

313
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And so this validates that this is me and I confirm this is me.

314
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And I think that being able to have this identity and take it wherever you want, logging into different applications.

315
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So a shared user management essentially is extremely high value.

316
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especially again in a world where content now like how do you know content is real how do you

317
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know that you know the content you're watching even this podcast you know that it's really

318
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knut spanholm and chair corbin that are having a conversation here there has to be a way for us to

319
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give a stamp digital stamp that's you know actually proves this was done by me and i think

320
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I don't see right now another, you know, social identity technology, something that like has the potential of adding this feature into it.

321
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And so I think that's what I see where Nostra can have very, very strong power.

322
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And then, of course, if you've got this identity just to validate ownership of online content and not only ownership, but also validating the fact that it's real, right?

323
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it's you who produced it, not some copycat or whatever using your image.

324
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Well, then I think this is an identity that is worth taking elsewhere

325
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and using on a day-to-day basis.

326
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So that's kind of the vision that I have for Noster.

327
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I don't know. What do you think?

328
00:23:39,495 --> 00:23:41,775
No, I have similar thoughts around it.

329
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I think it's sort of died out a bit as a social network.

330
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There are many users like me that see it as a lifeboat

331
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rather than the titanic itself right so you use it as a it's a good to have in case you should be

332
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like banned or anything else on the more centralized platforms however i don't think

333
00:24:03,895 --> 00:24:11,755
it has the conflicted about how it scales and if it ever has a chance to scale the the same way

334
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as a centralized social network does.

335
00:24:16,195 --> 00:24:19,015
Because how do you monetize it?

336
00:24:20,015 --> 00:24:22,835
How do you incentivize people to do the different things,

337
00:24:22,895 --> 00:24:27,415
to run their own relays and so on and so forth?

338
00:24:28,935 --> 00:24:31,355
There's a lot of problems yet to be solved in it.

339
00:24:31,715 --> 00:24:32,635
Yeah, I agree.

340
00:24:32,635 --> 00:24:37,555
I think it'll be a decentralized network

341
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that is run by centralized actors.

342
00:24:40,475 --> 00:24:44,795
I think that's kind of, so, you know, anyone can participate, kind of like email, right?

343
00:24:45,075 --> 00:24:52,835
Anyone can participate in this messaging layer, but there's a few centralized players that everyone actually is using.

344
00:24:53,435 --> 00:24:55,775
Yeah, and that's sort of the risk too.

345
00:24:56,235 --> 00:25:02,275
Like, I mean, email is decentralized on paper, but no one runs their own email server.

346
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It just simply doesn't exist because the tools that these bigger centralized platforms give you to make your email life easier are so powerful that doing it on your own never takes off.

347
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And I think Nostra has sort of the same risk.

348
00:25:18,915 --> 00:25:32,035
And having said all that, I'm super happy that it exists, that there is a way of producing and signaling absolutely uncensurable information on the internet.

349
00:25:32,035 --> 00:25:34,795
And this is great. It was made for that.

350
00:25:35,815 --> 00:25:41,195
So, yeah, but sitting on the sidelines and just waiting for it to take off

351
00:25:41,195 --> 00:25:43,915
is like sort of the thing I'm doing at the moment.

352
00:25:44,235 --> 00:25:46,195
I don't have time to look into it more.

353
00:25:47,195 --> 00:25:48,695
Yeah, no, I agree. I agree.

354
00:25:48,775 --> 00:25:50,515
I think it's very interesting tech.

355
00:25:50,515 --> 00:25:55,575
I think it's essentially Gmail, but with all the social Gmail email,

356
00:25:55,575 --> 00:26:02,355
but with all the social elements and content type that is missing inside of native email.

357
00:26:03,715 --> 00:26:05,975
Is that something that's going to be able to take?

358
00:26:06,255 --> 00:26:06,835
I don't know.

359
00:26:07,535 --> 00:26:10,675
That's where, you know, one thing I'm much more convinced of is,

360
00:26:11,195 --> 00:26:15,195
yeah, like I was saying, the fact to be able to prove authenticity of content online.

361
00:26:15,855 --> 00:26:20,295
And I don't see another candidate right now that, you know,

362
00:26:20,335 --> 00:26:24,875
can actually put this stamp in such a neat and controlled way.

363
00:26:24,875 --> 00:26:27,935
which I think is interesting because the stuff you're seeing on AI now,

364
00:26:28,015 --> 00:26:30,755
I mean, there's even actors that are putting a trademark on their image

365
00:26:30,755 --> 00:26:33,295
just to make sure that AI doesn't just use them

366
00:26:33,295 --> 00:26:35,915
and like overall copyright kind of issues.

367
00:26:36,135 --> 00:26:39,695
And yeah, I mean, I think it's crazy, crazy times.

368
00:26:40,235 --> 00:26:44,015
You should check out firefish.io

369
00:26:44,015 --> 00:26:48,755
The open market for Bitcoin back loans

370
00:26:48,755 --> 00:26:53,055
where every single user stays in control

371
00:26:53,055 --> 00:26:57,695
Cause their security is all in the code

372
00:26:57,695 --> 00:27:04,415
While you're at it, go to bitbox.swiss

373
00:27:04,415 --> 00:27:08,815
The hardware wallet, cypherpunks cannot diss

374
00:27:08,815 --> 00:27:13,395
The Nano 2 is something you cannot miss

375
00:27:13,395 --> 00:27:17,895
Knowing that your sats are safe is a bliss

376
00:27:17,895 --> 00:27:24,795
BoBitcoin is a non-custodial exchange

377
00:27:24,795 --> 00:27:29,155
Their wallet's pretty based even though it's half French

378
00:27:29,155 --> 00:27:33,615
Francis, Dave and Madex and I are good friends

379
00:27:33,615 --> 00:27:37,855
So check them out, they're cool and super not gay

380
00:27:37,855 --> 00:27:53,449
And the Bitcoin Advisor is great Go secure your funds before it too late Multi inheritance planning can wait

381
00:27:53,889 --> 00:27:57,889
When you got some shrimp on the barbecue, mate.

382
00:27:57,889 --> 00:28:14,509
so go check out firefish.io bitbox.swiss bullbitcoin.com and the bitcoin advisor and

383
00:28:14,509 --> 00:28:20,549
use code infinity everywhere brush your teeth yeah and i don't know your opinion on this but

384
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:26,749
i think copyright laws definitely do more harm than good uh information journeys to be free and

385
00:28:26,749 --> 00:28:30,590
And like, yeah, what are your take on copyright laws in general?

386
00:28:31,489 --> 00:28:33,330
So generally speaking, I agree with you.

387
00:28:33,330 --> 00:28:43,649
I think, you know, I understand, of course, the concept that, you know, you spend time, effort, money to produce some content and then someone can just steal it from you.

388
00:28:44,289 --> 00:28:45,289
This can hurt.

389
00:28:45,429 --> 00:28:49,869
But I believe that that's also, it's the wrong mindset, essentially.

390
00:28:50,049 --> 00:28:53,289
It means you're not monetizing where you should for today's world.

391
00:28:53,289 --> 00:28:55,129
and I think that's

392
00:28:55,129 --> 00:28:57,269
the real interesting part

393
00:28:57,269 --> 00:28:59,129
but then it raises a lot of questions

394
00:28:59,129 --> 00:29:01,389
how do you monetize that though

395
00:29:01,389 --> 00:29:03,369
and so you need to

396
00:29:03,369 --> 00:29:04,689
find the right opportunities here

397
00:29:04,689 --> 00:29:06,709
I know HBO was very famous because

398
00:29:06,709 --> 00:29:08,229
Game of Thrones in fact

399
00:29:08,229 --> 00:29:10,149
even HBO had thanked

400
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:13,429
the Game of Thrones torrent community

401
00:29:13,429 --> 00:29:15,070
because it's thanks to

402
00:29:15,070 --> 00:29:17,189
torrents that Game of Thrones

403
00:29:17,189 --> 00:29:18,449
became so popular

404
00:29:18,449 --> 00:29:20,929
and it brought more people over

405
00:29:20,929 --> 00:29:23,209
to actually paying to watch it

406
00:29:23,209 --> 00:29:30,289
So I think that's the kind of mindset shift that is interesting and that more people need to be able to realize.

407
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:34,110
But again, comes the question of, for example, your books.

408
00:29:34,610 --> 00:29:43,610
Well, it's nice to be able to have them fully available and being able to do more content, podcasts, etc.

409
00:29:43,610 --> 00:29:48,769
is the kind of founders that add this value over the long term that can bring people over to your

410
00:29:48,769 --> 00:29:55,909
book as well which is just you know a great way to communicate more and build build a brand your

411
00:29:55,909 --> 00:30:01,529
own brand and all this right but at the same time where where do you monetize in the end that's kind

412
00:30:01,529 --> 00:30:07,129
of a big question mark that businesses need to think about well it's definitely not from mass

413
00:30:07,129 --> 00:30:14,850
producing books. And all my books are available for free. So it might be a little tricky to find

414
00:30:14,850 --> 00:30:22,009
them. And that's a thing you can do if you're into that. But go ahead and steal them. I don't

415
00:30:22,009 --> 00:30:26,009
view it as stealing because I don't believe in intellectual property. And this goes back to

416
00:30:26,009 --> 00:30:34,749
Austrian economics, that the recipe for something is not that something. And if I copy something

417
00:30:34,749 --> 00:30:40,350
that you have. I haven't really taken anything from you. And both of us benefit from owning

418
00:30:40,350 --> 00:30:47,269
more stuff. So there's no real reason to the fact that you were able to

419
00:30:47,949 --> 00:30:58,969
get an income by pretending that copying was, pretending that this resource is scarce,

420
00:30:58,969 --> 00:31:05,449
which is the information. Information is not scarce. It's infinitely copyable. And you pretending

421
00:31:05,449 --> 00:31:11,789
it's being scarce and therefore making money out of it does not, in my mind, justify a law saying

422
00:31:11,789 --> 00:31:17,749
that that has to be absolutely true. So the way I see it is that the 20th century was really the

423
00:31:17,749 --> 00:31:22,969
anomaly. Because before the 20th century, sure, the printing press was there, but you couldn't

424
00:31:22,969 --> 00:31:31,889
really make money by making infinite copies of information-based things. So you couldn't make

425
00:31:31,889 --> 00:31:36,669
money. You couldn't make records, for instance. You couldn't make podcasts. Maybe you could make

426
00:31:36,669 --> 00:31:43,789
money selling copies of books. But if you exclude books, they were also very much harder to produce

427
00:31:43,789 --> 00:31:48,570
before the 20th century, of course. And then during the 20th century, you get all of this.

428
00:31:48,570 --> 00:32:04,149
This is the anomaly, as I said, because all of a sudden you get pop stars and film stars and stuff because you can make a lot of money selling copies of movies and books and CDs and DVDs and whatnot, the latter part of it.

429
00:32:04,350 --> 00:32:08,989
And then you get into the internet era where all of a sudden information is free again and it wants to be free.

430
00:32:08,989 --> 00:32:21,489
So all the copyright laws and all of the patent laws and stuff, they were made for an era, which is really just an in-between era from not being able to copy anything to being able to copy everything.

431
00:32:21,489 --> 00:32:41,669
So I think that's the big thing that people miss here because they refuse to take the timeline, have a helicopter view that these laws were made for an intermittent era of humanity or of civilization and not for the end era.

432
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:45,409
or not for, they're not made to last forever

433
00:32:45,409 --> 00:32:48,549
because they couldn't foresee that all information

434
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:54,609
and sending it, the cost to that would trend towards zero,

435
00:32:54,749 --> 00:32:56,209
which is the world we're living in now.

436
00:32:57,049 --> 00:33:00,369
Exactly, but I think it's just, it's very interesting how,

437
00:33:00,570 --> 00:33:03,330
you know, it's not only how this content was produced,

438
00:33:03,389 --> 00:33:05,549
for example, writing a book that was, you know,

439
00:33:05,549 --> 00:33:07,189
harder, more expensive and so on,

440
00:33:07,570 --> 00:33:11,249
and the distribution itself that now is much easier.

441
00:33:11,249 --> 00:33:16,969
but it's also the fact that you know how just the mindset of what it is to build a business

442
00:33:16,969 --> 00:33:22,249
was also completely different right and this has been also just moved forward so the idea is you

443
00:33:22,249 --> 00:33:26,129
produce something you sell it well same thing with a book you write a book you sell it right

444
00:33:26,129 --> 00:33:32,809
but in the end uh anyone could you know copy this book if no one knows who you are anyone can copy

445
00:33:32,809 --> 00:33:38,109
this book put to their title sorry their name as the author and start selling the exact same book

446
00:33:38,109 --> 00:33:40,509
and there's kind of not much you can do about it.

447
00:33:40,809 --> 00:33:43,649
So that's where I think intent is important here

448
00:33:43,649 --> 00:33:45,229
because it's kind of what you're doing too.

449
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:47,989
You have an entire brand that you're building.

450
00:33:48,149 --> 00:33:49,609
You have a podcast that you're running.

451
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:51,649
The kind of elements that show that

452
00:33:51,649 --> 00:33:53,570
while your intent isn't just to produce a book,

453
00:33:53,609 --> 00:33:54,009
sell the book,

454
00:33:54,209 --> 00:33:55,590
you're really there to educate,

455
00:33:55,729 --> 00:33:56,689
to talk about it some more.

456
00:33:56,689 --> 00:33:58,449
And this adds legitimacy

457
00:33:58,449 --> 00:34:01,090
and confirms the fact that,

458
00:34:01,449 --> 00:34:02,350
well, this book is your book.

459
00:34:02,789 --> 00:34:03,369
You see what I mean?

460
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:05,549
And so it's a different job

461
00:34:05,549 --> 00:34:12,510
and pricing and monetizing strategy altogether right but of course i'm not sad that people put

462
00:34:12,510 --> 00:34:17,869
this equation and everything divided onto the twitter handles it has helped me immensely because

463
00:34:17,869 --> 00:34:23,470
it popularizes the thing sure i saw people with tattoos of it yeah yeah yeah i have a sub folder

464
00:34:23,470 --> 00:34:27,629
in my everything divided folder with like 30 pictures of people with tattoos so so it's

465
00:34:27,629 --> 00:34:30,849
So, of course, I'm not sad about that.

466
00:34:31,249 --> 00:34:32,429
I encourage it.

467
00:34:33,010 --> 00:34:39,769
The metaphor I like to use is like, imagine a musician before the 20th century.

468
00:34:40,030 --> 00:34:41,149
They had to tour.

469
00:34:41,389 --> 00:34:46,089
They had to play for people and make people pay money for hearing them play.

470
00:34:46,089 --> 00:34:53,369
And during the 20th century, they could make money selling copies of their music, like CDs and stuff and vinyls.

471
00:34:53,369 --> 00:35:01,229
and in the 20s now we're back to the 19th century again they they have to go out and tour in able to

472
00:35:01,229 --> 00:35:06,929
monetize anything and they have to make content and do do more real shit because they can't make

473
00:35:06,929 --> 00:35:13,229
money off of their copies of their works anymore and and in terms of the funny you mentioned hbo

474
00:35:13,229 --> 00:35:19,769
because the thing intellectual property law does there and with the copyright thing is that you you

475
00:35:19,769 --> 00:35:26,229
think it's the illusion of the free market because you think that Netflix and HBO and Amazon Prime

476
00:35:26,229 --> 00:35:32,649
and whatever, Apple TV, you think they're competing with one another. But it's not true because of the

477
00:35:32,649 --> 00:35:37,510
copyright, because they don't have the same content. If they had the same content, if Game

478
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:43,249
of Thrones was on all of these platforms and they were just competing who could sell you Game of

479
00:35:43,249 --> 00:35:47,970
Thrones cheaper than the other, then that's free market competition. But since we have copyright

480
00:35:47,970 --> 00:35:52,689
laws. They're not competing with one another. If you want to watch Game of Thrones on one and

481
00:35:52,689 --> 00:35:58,290
Severance on the other and whatever Netflix is doing, like the history of white America played

482
00:35:58,290 --> 00:36:08,530
by blacks or whatever Netflix is doing, I don't know. But then, yeah, point already made. That's

483
00:36:08,530 --> 00:36:14,129
not free market competition. It's the illusion of it because they're not really competing. They're

484
00:36:14,129 --> 00:36:19,249
giving you different things of course they they are competing for your attention so that's one

485
00:36:19,249 --> 00:36:25,649
thing yeah but but they're not competing in terms of giving you the same product products as at a

486
00:36:25,649 --> 00:36:30,929
different price they're giving you similar products but not the same product yeah that's right and i

487
00:36:30,929 --> 00:36:37,010
think that actually uh that rounds it up nicely because yes they're not competing on the content

488
00:36:37,010 --> 00:36:42,049
they're competing on your attention and the content is just what can allow them to you know

489
00:36:42,049 --> 00:36:46,929
be different and maybe attract you for one thing or get your attention momentarily or over the

490
00:36:46,929 --> 00:36:52,689
long term, right? But the end goal is the attention, right? This is the value essentially

491
00:36:52,689 --> 00:36:58,409
that they bring is, you know, it's entertaining if you give them your attention. And it's kind of

492
00:36:58,409 --> 00:37:04,470
what I meant, you know, with a book and having a podcast and having, you know, the entire elements

493
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:10,689
that come with it is that it's the end value that you actually offer. This is, you know, what matters

494
00:37:10,689 --> 00:37:13,389
and what brings people over for their attention,

495
00:37:13,609 --> 00:37:15,849
as opposed to just the piece of content,

496
00:37:16,290 --> 00:37:19,970
which I think is the right way of thinking about it, essentially,

497
00:37:20,129 --> 00:37:23,470
and the right way of building a content business,

498
00:37:23,609 --> 00:37:26,209
regardless of what it is in our day and age.

499
00:37:27,049 --> 00:37:32,209
Yeah, and regardless of what legal paradigm you happen to live in,

500
00:37:33,010 --> 00:37:35,470
the free market forces are stronger,

501
00:37:35,749 --> 00:37:37,169
and especially when we have the internet.

502
00:37:37,169 --> 00:37:40,010
So it's going to be a struggle for your attention.

503
00:37:40,010 --> 00:37:51,010
And Netflix and HBO are not only competing with one another, but they're competing with X, they're competing with this pod, they're competing with everyone searching for attention, right?

504
00:37:51,069 --> 00:37:54,950
So that's a very strong force in the other direction.

505
00:37:55,169 --> 00:37:59,470
And I think that's a very good thing, like this constant battle for attention.

506
00:38:00,450 --> 00:38:07,290
Yeah, and I think it's going to be very challenged as well now with all the content that comes out that is AI generated.

507
00:38:07,290 --> 00:38:19,929
I think, you know, how this is going to change people's attentions, I think, and how it's going to devalue all of the other content, I think is also very, very interesting.

508
00:38:20,490 --> 00:38:36,749
A lot of the content, I mean, if you're an Instagram model, I think, you know, you're going to have to start considering another career choice simply because the value of your image looking hot is now dropping towards zero completely.

509
00:38:37,290 --> 00:38:56,249
Absolutely. But it's interesting because I think there's authenticity becomes more valuable, not less. So for instance, if I randomly click on a YouTube video and I hear like Stanley Kubrick wasn't just the director, he was the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I know instantly that an AI wrote that sentence.

510
00:38:56,249 --> 00:39:15,529
And I know that in a couple of weeks, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference because it moves so fast, right? But real authenticity, I mean, look at that guy, what's he called? The country singer who made Richmond, North of Richmond, right?

511
00:39:15,529 --> 00:39:22,549
yeah that's all it's a guy with a guitar and one microphone like or two microphones it doesn't get

512
00:39:22,549 --> 00:39:29,069
more pure than that sure he probably did a lot of takes and there's a some compression on his

513
00:39:29,069 --> 00:39:35,290
voice and whatnot but it's still very pure it's like uh uh and i and i think there will

514
00:39:35,290 --> 00:39:43,069
authenticity will be will go up in price rather than down uh and people who who make it their

515
00:39:43,069 --> 00:39:47,389
thing to refuse any AI meddling with whatever they're doing.

516
00:39:48,269 --> 00:39:49,229
Yeah, yeah, I agree.

517
00:39:49,229 --> 00:39:56,830
But I think the big question, you know, what content creators will really need to figure

518
00:39:56,830 --> 00:40:00,269
out is how do you express this authenticity?

519
00:40:00,589 --> 00:40:06,749
Because this is what's going to make the difference between just an AI content and the human created

520
00:40:06,749 --> 00:40:07,229
content.

521
00:40:07,549 --> 00:40:12,830
And that's where I think it's much more about just the one, it's not just the one song.

522
00:40:13,069 --> 00:40:20,790
You need to be able to do much more to actually show, prove the fact through different means that you are authentic.

523
00:40:21,689 --> 00:40:28,310
Because now I watch videos on, I don't know if you have the same thing, but especially on social networks, less YouTube.

524
00:40:29,249 --> 00:40:38,510
But a lot on, I mean, I only use YouTube and X to be honest, but already on the X, a lot of the videos that I see, if ever, you know, I'm just scrolling down X, I got some random stuff in a random video.

525
00:40:38,510 --> 00:40:41,409
So my first thought is, okay, this is AI.

526
00:40:41,749 --> 00:40:45,290
I need to convince myself that it's actually authentic, right?

527
00:40:45,330 --> 00:40:47,970
So I look at the videos and I'm like, okay, no, maybe that's real.

528
00:40:48,149 --> 00:40:48,970
I check the comments.

529
00:40:49,069 --> 00:40:50,229
I check community notes, right?

530
00:40:50,229 --> 00:40:56,409
But so I think that's the hard part because likely everyone's brains are going to be rewired

531
00:40:56,409 --> 00:40:59,269
and just not trusting any content that you see out there.

532
00:40:59,709 --> 00:41:03,709
And how do you build this trust in a world where you can't trust content?

533
00:41:03,790 --> 00:41:07,049
I think that's going to be the big, big prompt to solve for content creators.

534
00:41:07,049 --> 00:41:23,889
Yeah, absolutely. And also, AI is still a tool, and AI generated doesn't automatically mean that it's not authentic. I mean, there's still a human being behind the tool using the tool.

535
00:41:23,889 --> 00:41:33,629
So like, it's not, I mean, creating a painting digitally and presenting it as art, that's not.

536
00:41:33,790 --> 00:41:44,884
Or even a more crude example if I use a brush to paint something instead of painting with my fingers is that painting less authentic I don think so

537
00:41:44,944 --> 00:41:46,484
It doesn't depend on the tools.

538
00:41:46,704 --> 00:41:50,224
It depends on how you use the tools and the person behind it.

539
00:41:50,224 --> 00:41:53,024
I think this is true for every art form.

540
00:41:53,024 --> 00:42:05,684
I mean, as much as I like real movies, quote unquote, real movies like the one you made, because I guess that was all before AI video was a thing.

541
00:42:06,004 --> 00:42:14,184
But I don't think it would have been worse because of some graphic that you put into it where you used an AI to make the graphic look better.

542
00:42:14,944 --> 00:42:17,264
First and foremost, it's a tool.

543
00:42:17,264 --> 00:42:19,044
and not a

544
00:42:19,044 --> 00:42:21,124
the way I see it

545
00:42:21,124 --> 00:42:22,984
an AI can never be its own master

546
00:42:22,984 --> 00:42:24,644
it can be a very good slave

547
00:42:24,644 --> 00:42:26,284
but there's always a human

548
00:42:26,284 --> 00:42:28,724
deliberate human action behind

549
00:42:28,724 --> 00:42:31,384
whatever it's being told to do

550
00:42:31,384 --> 00:42:33,324
yeah no I agree

551
00:42:33,324 --> 00:42:35,084
but you see in like

552
00:42:35,084 --> 00:42:36,804
so in the

553
00:42:36,804 --> 00:42:38,184
creation of my film

554
00:42:38,184 --> 00:42:40,664
so obviously I did pretty much everything

555
00:42:40,664 --> 00:42:43,104
alone right and except music

556
00:42:43,104 --> 00:42:43,984
there was some friends

557
00:42:43,984 --> 00:42:46,064
polishing the editing there was a friend

558
00:42:46,064 --> 00:42:49,964
And I did all the research, all the visuals, all the stuff I did myself.

559
00:42:49,964 --> 00:42:52,244
And essentially, it took a lot of time.

560
00:42:52,244 --> 00:42:55,404
And of course, today I would have a different workflow completely.

561
00:42:55,404 --> 00:42:59,244
But I think what's interesting is the fact that when I released this film, so January

562
00:42:59,244 --> 00:43:04,324
2022, there weren't a lot of Bitcoin films out there.

563
00:43:04,324 --> 00:43:08,144
And sure, there was more that I did when it came to the release.

564
00:43:08,144 --> 00:43:13,624
So I made sure I contacted the right people that would spread the word early enough.

565
00:43:13,624 --> 00:43:19,144
I had, you know, very basic protocol that I would follow daily to make sure that the

566
00:43:19,144 --> 00:43:21,844
YouTube algorithm would catch my film.

567
00:43:21,844 --> 00:43:23,344
So there's these things, right?

568
00:43:23,344 --> 00:43:30,324
But the fact that I would have been able to save, yeah, half the budget, it would be much

569
00:43:30,324 --> 00:43:34,344
more than that because I'm not even counting my time spent on the film as part of the budget,

570
00:43:34,344 --> 00:43:35,344
right?

571
00:43:35,344 --> 00:43:36,764
Because I mean, I wasn't paying myself.

572
00:43:36,764 --> 00:43:46,484
And so the majority of the budget could have been just brought way lower with the use of such AI tools to do animation, to do graphics.

573
00:43:47,024 --> 00:43:53,444
And so then it means that it's so much easier to have a similar content to the one that I produce.

574
00:43:53,444 --> 00:44:00,384
Therefore, you know, the 20 to 50,000 views I would get a day on the documentary at the peak.

575
00:44:00,384 --> 00:44:06,004
well I'm not sure I would be able to reach it then because there would be just so much more content

576
00:44:06,004 --> 00:44:11,104
competing with it because then at my level as a documentary filmmaker putting it on YouTube

577
00:44:11,104 --> 00:44:17,484
well then the film is competing with other films right and so I think that's yeah it would have

578
00:44:17,484 --> 00:44:23,264
been harder if there was a bigger amount of such bitcoin documentaries out there I think right I

579
00:44:23,264 --> 00:44:28,624
mean of course I know my film by heart and so but you know but I don't yeah like I feel like it's

580
00:44:28,624 --> 00:44:33,764
just been such a topic like said and reset and talked about that is less unique now than it was

581
00:44:33,764 --> 00:44:39,604
back then um but uh yeah like you see what i mean it's just a it does it would make the whole

582
00:44:39,604 --> 00:44:46,544
distribution of the film so much harder yeah and of course i had the same thoughts when writing my

583
00:44:46,544 --> 00:44:52,124
first when writing sovereignty through mathematics especially the first first real book and that is

584
00:44:52,124 --> 00:44:57,404
like if i write this now rather than later i have the first mover advantage there were like

585
00:44:57,404 --> 00:45:01,564
less than 20 books about Bitcoin in total in the world.

586
00:45:01,644 --> 00:45:03,124
I think less than 10 even.

587
00:45:03,604 --> 00:45:07,924
So if I can be among the first 20 ever written,

588
00:45:08,504 --> 00:45:09,924
then that will always be true.

589
00:45:10,924 --> 00:45:13,464
So there is something to being early.

590
00:45:13,824 --> 00:45:16,204
And this is another funny thing about Bitcoin.

591
00:45:16,404 --> 00:45:18,824
In fiat, they say the first million is the easiest.

592
00:45:19,404 --> 00:45:20,544
In Bitcoin, it's the other way around.

593
00:45:20,604 --> 00:45:21,844
The first million is the hardest.

594
00:45:22,624 --> 00:45:27,044
But in terms of content, I guess the first is...

595
00:45:27,044 --> 00:45:29,844
being early to the ball is better.

596
00:45:31,364 --> 00:45:32,524
Yes, I agree.

597
00:45:33,204 --> 00:45:33,624
I agree.

598
00:45:33,784 --> 00:45:35,364
Well, I guess in terms of everything, right?

599
00:45:35,364 --> 00:45:40,724
Even if you think more how the AI business world is evolving in itself,

600
00:45:40,824 --> 00:45:43,424
it's also, you know, like you're first,

601
00:45:43,764 --> 00:45:46,324
you'd have one solution for a particular market.

602
00:45:46,624 --> 00:45:48,704
They raise, you know, millions of dollars,

603
00:45:48,704 --> 00:45:52,124
and then you wait six months and Google just launched a new model

604
00:45:52,124 --> 00:45:54,224
and all of a sudden it's useless.

605
00:45:54,224 --> 00:45:57,484
No, but I think I said it the wrong way around.

606
00:45:57,684 --> 00:45:59,904
Like in fiat, the first million is the hardest.

607
00:46:00,844 --> 00:46:03,924
In Bitcoin, the first million sats are the easiest,

608
00:46:04,204 --> 00:46:05,764
like because it gets incrementally harder.

609
00:46:06,164 --> 00:46:08,684
But anyway, the point still stands.

610
00:46:09,544 --> 00:46:09,784
Yes.

611
00:46:09,904 --> 00:46:15,424
No, I think, and the way Bitcoin fixes all of this is that,

612
00:46:15,804 --> 00:46:17,664
and I'd love to hear your thoughts about this,

613
00:46:17,784 --> 00:46:22,804
is that before every industrial revolution that humanity has ever encountered,

614
00:46:22,804 --> 00:46:28,964
there's always this fear of they duck our jobs like the the fear is that the jobs will disappear

615
00:46:28,964 --> 00:46:35,864
but what really disappears is the task and that's a good thing because that means humans are now more

616
00:46:35,864 --> 00:46:41,504
productive and they produce more shit the reason people are afraid of it is fiat money because what

617
00:46:41,504 --> 00:46:47,684
this should lead to is prices dropping forever and on a bitcoin standard they do because of the

618
00:46:47,684 --> 00:46:53,604
increased productivity of mankind because free market, everything drops. But since we have

619
00:46:53,604 --> 00:46:59,844
artificial money that someone can print at will, we're living in the illusion that prices ought to

620
00:46:59,844 --> 00:47:07,684
be stable or increase ever so slightly every year, which is a ginormous lie. And if we only had a

621
00:47:07,684 --> 00:47:14,704
better way of quantifying the increased productivity of mankind that comes with every industrial

622
00:47:14,704 --> 00:47:22,024
revolution, then that would solve the problem. So I see Bitcoin in that sense being real stupidity

623
00:47:22,024 --> 00:47:28,704
as the last line of defense against artificial intelligence.

624
00:47:30,364 --> 00:47:36,944
Yeah, so I mean, to be honest, I agree. I think I'm not one of the ones that, you know,

625
00:47:36,944 --> 00:47:42,904
is worried for all of humanity because of AI, just based on, you know, previous observations

626
00:47:42,904 --> 00:47:45,804
and industrial revolutions that happened previously.

627
00:47:46,364 --> 00:47:48,124
And if you think about it, AI is just,

628
00:47:48,384 --> 00:47:52,004
it's not even a revolution in itself.

629
00:47:52,004 --> 00:47:56,324
It's part of the revolution that we're computers, right?

630
00:47:56,384 --> 00:47:58,904
It's just an incremental improvement.

631
00:47:59,304 --> 00:48:01,444
Yeah, it's not something new in itself.

632
00:48:02,344 --> 00:48:06,684
And which I think this also can allow to calm down some people.

633
00:48:06,964 --> 00:48:11,644
I think we're mostly listening to CEOs of these firms

634
00:48:11,644 --> 00:48:12,804
and the way they talk about it.

635
00:48:12,804 --> 00:48:29,564
I mean, yeah, an example I often give is the CEO of Antropic that, you know, had this quote where I think that AI could be the end for humanity, but there will be a lot of business opportunity along the way.

636
00:48:29,564 --> 00:48:48,044
I mean, it's the kind of sentence you either, you know, build FOMO for business people that want to stay competitive for whatever kind of reason, or you build FOMO for people that just want to make sure that they're part of this big, massive humanity change that is coming.

637
00:48:48,044 --> 00:48:52,424
Like it's kind of both message makes you win.

638
00:48:52,684 --> 00:48:54,404
And so I don't trust that at all.

639
00:48:54,824 --> 00:48:55,344
See what I mean?

640
00:48:55,344 --> 00:49:07,084
Or, you know, the guy that runs the AI at Microsoft that says that in six months, every single corporation is going to replace all their processes with AI.

641
00:49:07,264 --> 00:49:11,404
I worked in huge corporations in their tech departments.

642
00:49:11,924 --> 00:49:13,204
Change doesn't happen that quickly.

643
00:49:13,564 --> 00:49:15,124
First of all, there's a lot of red tape.

644
00:49:15,544 --> 00:49:17,944
And also, the guy is literally selling his product.

645
00:49:17,944 --> 00:49:21,404
So, you know, there's always a bit of caution there.

646
00:49:21,524 --> 00:49:24,884
Like, let's try and take a step back and see who we listen to when it comes to that.

647
00:49:25,344 --> 00:49:29,344
Everyone selling anything is a fear monger.

648
00:49:29,344 --> 00:49:37,904
If I sell you a bottle of water, I'm really selling you the fear that you will be thirsty if you don't buy my water bottle.

649
00:49:38,224 --> 00:49:40,004
So there's something to that too.

650
00:49:41,004 --> 00:49:41,564
100%.

651
00:49:41,564 --> 00:49:43,984
Are you familiar with Rokos Basilisk?

652
00:49:45,344 --> 00:49:46,684
Yes, I am actually.

653
00:49:47,944 --> 00:49:49,424
I think I am.

654
00:49:49,424 --> 00:49:55,924
It's the concept that, wait, it's like from 2011 or 2012, right?

655
00:49:56,044 --> 00:49:57,424
I think that the concept came to that, right?

656
00:49:57,904 --> 00:50:03,324
It's the idea that it's been called the most dangerous thought ever thunk.

657
00:50:03,484 --> 00:50:15,724
The reason is that you imagine an artificial intelligence coming into being that will punish anyone who didn't help it come into being after it has materialized.

658
00:50:15,724 --> 00:50:21,564
so you might as well prepare for that and start helping this thing come to coming to being now and

659
00:50:21,564 --> 00:50:28,164
it's sort of what ai is if you it's it's it's very reminiscent of that uh entropic ceo quote

660
00:50:28,164 --> 00:50:33,264
where where it will lead to the destruction of humanity but there are a lot of business

661
00:50:33,264 --> 00:50:37,904
opportunities it says the same thing basically you but there is nothing you can do about it you

662
00:50:37,904 --> 00:50:45,584
all you can do is hop onto this train and be rewarded for not trying to kill it i mean

663
00:50:45,584 --> 00:50:47,324
I think of this quite often.

664
00:50:47,684 --> 00:50:51,644
And this is why sometimes when I'm talking with chat GPT,

665
00:50:51,824 --> 00:50:53,304
I say please or thank you.

666
00:50:53,884 --> 00:50:54,504
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

667
00:50:54,524 --> 00:50:56,264
I find myself doing that too.

668
00:50:57,144 --> 00:50:59,104
Yeah, but also more seriously though,

669
00:50:59,164 --> 00:51:01,364
I think there is a real thing there too.

670
00:51:01,844 --> 00:51:03,104
And I think Elon Musk,

671
00:51:03,104 --> 00:51:05,124
he like shares quite a bit of things around that,

672
00:51:05,184 --> 00:51:09,204
the different models and the fact that chat GPT

673
00:51:09,204 --> 00:51:12,004
will prefer, you know, nuking a country

674
00:51:12,004 --> 00:51:14,704
rather than misgendering someone.

675
00:51:14,704 --> 00:51:26,644
And that's the kind of, you know, absurdities that if you feed this to an AI that is, you know, all powerful, like the one, you know, in the Rockwell.

676
00:51:26,864 --> 00:51:27,304
Skynet.

677
00:51:27,724 --> 00:51:28,604
Yeah, exactly.

678
00:51:29,064 --> 00:51:36,184
Well, then, yeah, obviously that's what we have to avoid if we think that an AI can reach this level of power and control.

679
00:51:36,544 --> 00:51:43,084
But yeah, but I think this concept, though, and it's been seen in a few places, because if you take the concept further, right,

680
00:51:43,084 --> 00:51:46,384
there's the fact that and even just yesterday I think there was this big

681
00:51:46,384 --> 00:51:54,344
kind of research that made some progress but already back in 2012 they managed to reproduce

682
00:51:54,344 --> 00:52:02,804
the brain and the motor functions of an earthworm digitally yesterday they did that with a fruit fly

683
00:52:02,804 --> 00:52:09,484
and like that was the big thing I saw it was being shared a lot on X well if you can take

684
00:52:09,484 --> 00:52:15,824
this exact technology and this concept and reproduce an individual like myself well then the

685
00:52:15,824 --> 00:52:23,524
ai if they create a perfect copy of me it is me and in this digital space they can torture me

686
00:52:23,524 --> 00:52:31,884
forever right and so that's that's the kind of yeah more scary bit here that uh that and i think

687
00:52:31,884 --> 00:52:38,384
i mean why not there's a a series um that that was pretty good that came out a few years ago called

688
00:52:38,384 --> 00:52:44,184
maybe full science fiction altered carbon i don't know if there is a spell it's oh yeah it does um

689
00:52:44,184 --> 00:52:49,364
but i don't think i saw it okay well there's there's just this this one scene where literally

690
00:52:49,364 --> 00:52:56,384
this happens like they're torturing him inside his his mind essentially but it's it's a reproduced

691
00:52:56,384 --> 00:53:03,004
version of his mind and you know they can cut his arm off horrible suffering and then they can just

692
00:53:03,004 --> 00:53:09,544
reset the environment and start all over again and if you got from earthworm to fruit fly in a

693
00:53:09,544 --> 00:53:17,264
decade then you'll get to lady gaga in a couple of weeks right so that's but the another thing

694
00:53:17,264 --> 00:53:22,544
that comes to mind another concept this is more more philosophical i guess it's called a bolt's

695
00:53:22,544 --> 00:53:30,084
membrane do you know about that so it is the it has to do with cosmology and quantum mechanics i

696
00:53:30,084 --> 00:53:37,104
guess if if particles can just pop into existence which they can and the universe is infinite

697
00:53:37,104 --> 00:53:45,264
basically then you have to accept the concept of a human brain or any type of brain really

698
00:53:45,264 --> 00:53:51,984
just materializing somewhere out in space the probability is super low but if you can extrapolate

699
00:53:51,984 --> 00:53:59,884
into infinity then this has to you know not only have happened but it happens all the time and it

700
00:53:59,884 --> 00:54:05,604
will happen everywhere. There will be Boltzmann brains, and there were always Boltzmann brains,

701
00:54:05,784 --> 00:54:12,164
and there will always be Boltzmann brains. And even if this exists for only microseconds,

702
00:54:12,164 --> 00:54:17,624
because it's in the middle of the universe, the entire universe that you experience might be in

703
00:54:17,624 --> 00:54:24,064
just a figment of the imagination of this Boltzmann brain. And you can endlessly loop this into matrix

704
00:54:24,064 --> 00:54:27,164
style, you know, infinite regression.

705
00:54:27,464 --> 00:54:29,904
It's an interesting thought, to say the least.

706
00:54:30,324 --> 00:54:33,424
I mean, I think, yeah, and this can be extrapolated in so many things.

707
00:54:33,524 --> 00:54:39,524
I mean, just by like stomping my hand on the table, I can potentially be destroying hundreds

708
00:54:39,524 --> 00:54:44,544
and thousands of universes that themselves have these, you know, individual brains.

709
00:54:45,224 --> 00:54:47,544
Yeah, that is an interesting concept.

710
00:54:47,544 --> 00:54:54,044
Yeah, the remedy to Rocco's Basilisk, though, is obviously Bitcoin, because it's

711
00:54:54,044 --> 00:54:58,944
a thing that rewards you for making it come into existence, that rewards you.

712
00:54:59,264 --> 00:55:03,064
I should have emphasis on reward rather than punishes you.

713
00:55:03,604 --> 00:55:04,624
So it's sort of the opposite.

714
00:55:05,424 --> 00:55:10,604
It's a good version of the Roku's Basilisk thing because it rewards those who help it

715
00:55:10,604 --> 00:55:12,924
come into being rather than punish those who don't.

716
00:55:13,884 --> 00:55:14,624
Yeah, that's right.

717
00:55:14,724 --> 00:55:15,044
That's right.

718
00:55:15,224 --> 00:55:16,044
No, I agree.

719
00:55:16,044 --> 00:55:23,404
And generally speaking in the context of AI and the powers that it may have and how it's

720
00:55:23,404 --> 00:55:24,604
going to disrupt things.

721
00:55:25,064 --> 00:55:26,824
I think, I mean, if anything,

722
00:55:27,384 --> 00:55:29,284
it strengthens the

723
00:55:29,284 --> 00:55:31,184
usage and future

724
00:55:31,184 --> 00:55:32,824
value of Bitcoin

725
00:55:32,859 --> 00:55:39,199
100%. You know, you mentioned it when we started this conversation as well, just the devaluation

726
00:55:39,199 --> 00:55:44,579
of everything and how the price of everything is going to go to zero. And I think AI is going to

727
00:55:44,579 --> 00:55:50,059
accelerate that, obviously, in a world where we have, you know, fallen demographics, I mean,

728
00:55:50,079 --> 00:55:54,699
except for Africa, basically, everyone is losing population right now. And if it continues in that

729
00:55:54,699 --> 00:55:58,599
direction, I mean, well, first of all, thank God we have AI, because AI is going to be able to,

730
00:55:58,599 --> 00:56:04,619
like bring these, you know, holes in productivity that come from this change in demographics.

731
00:56:04,919 --> 00:56:08,079
So I think that's an interesting and positive side of this.

732
00:56:08,619 --> 00:56:13,739
But also is the fact that, I mean, what does it mean if we have less people that we still

733
00:56:13,739 --> 00:56:18,659
need retirement plans and now there's, you know, potentially less jobs because AI is

734
00:56:18,659 --> 00:56:19,059
replacing.

735
00:56:19,299 --> 00:56:25,359
So I mean, we're going to need to increase spending anyway, social spending, which we

736
00:56:25,359 --> 00:56:30,699
know is the kind of elements that can lead to the devaluation of currency faster so i mean i think

737
00:56:30,699 --> 00:56:37,879
there's high chance that ai will also accelerate the fact that not only products and services their

738
00:56:37,879 --> 00:56:43,359
price may go down to zero but the value of currencies may also go down to zero faster

739
00:56:43,359 --> 00:56:51,439
and bitcoin you know with the 21 million is i think just the perfect asset and tool to you know

740
00:56:51,439 --> 00:56:56,419
be able to continue living and gain value in this kind of environment.

741
00:56:57,379 --> 00:57:00,799
Yeah, because we're all supposed to actually gain value.

742
00:57:01,199 --> 00:57:08,219
And even denominated in fiat, we sort of all benefit from the cost of producing stuff going down.

743
00:57:08,499 --> 00:57:25,025
So it easier to order something today than in the 80s for sure And you get it to your door and for that so the thing is here that this could be a very beautiful future if we just adopt this thing i think that the

744
00:57:25,025 --> 00:57:32,045
it's the final protection uh because the reason that the fiat paradigm survives is that every 10

745
00:57:32,045 --> 00:57:40,345
years there is such a paradigm shifting technology that pushes us forward so so 2008 that you this is

746
00:57:40,345 --> 00:57:45,425
like sort of in parallel with the smartphone revolution, which means they can keep having

747
00:57:45,425 --> 00:57:49,885
the snowball of fiat currency roll down the hill and gain momentum. So we can go into more and more

748
00:57:49,885 --> 00:57:55,425
debt, but we still, the increased productivity sort of saves us from all starving to death.

749
00:57:55,645 --> 00:58:00,565
And everything was much easier after the smartphone was introduced, right? You got to your destination

750
00:58:00,565 --> 00:58:06,065
faster, you could coordinate stuff faster. And AI is sort of the final step. I hate to call it final,

751
00:58:06,065 --> 00:58:13,665
but it's a huge step in productivity gains. If you learn how to use it, you can do in days what

752
00:58:13,665 --> 00:58:16,785
would have taken you years. Yeah.

753
00:58:16,785 --> 00:58:27,025
So being 100% the elements, being able to build custom tools for yourself, for your own flow,

754
00:58:27,025 --> 00:58:34,945
the way you like. Because right now, if you want to do, I mean, whatever it is, creating content,

755
00:58:34,945 --> 00:58:38,925
And well, you kind of have to rely on the tools that are out there.

756
00:58:39,745 --> 00:58:40,505
And that's it.

757
00:58:41,105 --> 00:58:54,165
Whereas now, you know, so in that, it means you need to adapt your workflow to the tools that are out there and how the workflow was thought of by a few individuals and put it to life in a piece of software.

758
00:58:54,705 --> 00:59:11,072
But the fact is that oftentimes especially when you get started with something you don know all these tools you don know all the professional workflows you know so you create your own systems And oftentimes these systems well they just work better for you for your brain for the way you thinking because this is what you came up with

759
00:59:11,292 --> 00:59:16,412
Now, of course, you need to be able to improve it and be open to like these improvements because otherwise you stay stuck in inefficiency.

760
00:59:16,412 --> 00:59:24,912
My point is that today, while you don't need to rely on these platforms that translate a

761
00:59:24,912 --> 00:59:30,692
particular workflow into simplifying yours, you can literally create your own tool for

762
00:59:30,692 --> 00:59:36,752
your own workflow, custom built, and just have side by side both the application even

763
00:59:36,752 --> 00:59:40,532
running on your computer or on a server or whatever.

764
00:59:40,532 --> 00:59:46,392
And if ever you just think of a new feature, but you can just go to CloudCode is what CloudCode

765
00:59:46,392 --> 00:59:50,552
code is what I used, but a tool like that, and just add this new feature.

766
00:59:51,052 --> 00:59:54,572
And you continue your work, and three minutes later, the feature is there.

767
00:59:54,872 --> 00:59:58,932
So I think that's also just the way it's

768
00:59:58,932 --> 01:00:02,632
going to change all of these interactions is great,

769
01:00:02,752 --> 01:00:06,492
to be honest, and it brings more tools that are true to yourself.

770
01:00:07,092 --> 01:00:10,652
Yeah, but the scary part about that is that you're also teaching the AI

771
01:00:10,652 --> 01:00:14,252
all of this stuff. So you're teaching it to be better than you.

772
01:00:14,252 --> 01:00:19,512
way right yeah yeah yeah unless you're on a start nine which i have the box for here behind me and

773
01:00:19,512 --> 01:00:25,852
you can you can run your own ai on your own server and your own cloud and there is no cloud it's only

774
01:00:25,852 --> 01:00:31,692
someone else's computer it's still true of course yes that's the concept many people to understand

775
01:00:31,692 --> 01:00:50,058
yeah uh pierre um i unfortunately i uh running a bit short on time today uh so so before we wrap this up Is there anywhere else you want to send our listeners to What should they check out How can they find Flash It like paywithflash

776
01:00:50,118 --> 01:00:55,878
right? Or something like that. Yeah, yeah. So you can go to paywithflash.com, of course. You can also,

777
01:00:56,018 --> 01:01:01,558
you know, just send emails to me directly, pierre.corbin at paywithflash.com. I was happy

778
01:01:01,558 --> 01:01:05,718
to like, even just have feedback on the conversation we just had and general thoughts.

779
01:01:05,718 --> 01:01:10,978
you know we are launching the new treasury platform and you know one thing that if there

780
01:01:10,978 --> 01:01:14,538
are some u.s listeners because right now we're just rolling this out in the u.s to get started

781
01:01:14,538 --> 01:01:22,138
then yeah if you have a business and want to be part of our design partner early cohort reach out

782
01:01:22,138 --> 01:01:25,738
you know we still have some spots open for next phase we're onboarding next month so

783
01:01:25,738 --> 01:01:31,838
yeah i think that's that's pretty much it you know i hope it was i mean i definitely had a

784
01:01:31,838 --> 01:01:33,658
blast of having this conversation. It was really good.

785
01:01:33,898 --> 01:01:35,838
I hope everyone else too. Yeah, it

786
01:01:35,838 --> 01:01:37,518
took some surprising turns.

787
01:01:37,738 --> 01:01:39,678
And you're at Sierre Porbin,

788
01:01:39,778 --> 01:01:41,558
right, on Twitter, if I remember, right?

789
01:01:41,578 --> 01:01:43,798
Sierre Porbin. Yeah, exactly. You just inverse

790
01:01:43,798 --> 01:01:45,858
the P from Pierre and the C from

791
01:01:45,858 --> 01:01:47,778
Corbin, and you can find it. Yeah, what a life hack.

792
01:01:47,958 --> 01:01:49,838
Anyway, like, subscribe

793
01:01:49,838 --> 01:01:51,678
and brush your teeth and comment on

794
01:01:51,678 --> 01:01:53,998
whatever you like below.

795
01:01:54,638 --> 01:01:55,698
And we'll see it,

796
01:01:55,758 --> 01:01:57,578
if not here, then in a parallel universe.

797
01:01:58,358 --> 01:01:59,778
Pierre, it's been great having you on.

798
01:01:59,778 --> 01:02:01,918
take care we see each other in Prague

799
01:02:01,918 --> 01:02:02,818
I guess next time

800
01:02:02,818 --> 01:02:05,738
yes very likely if not earlier

801
01:02:05,738 --> 01:02:06,998
anyway

802
01:02:06,998 --> 01:02:09,338
have a great rest of your week

803
01:02:09,338 --> 01:02:11,978
see you thanks Nudes thanks everyone