You Don't Sell Your Bitcoin with Eric Weiss - FFS #92

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for Bitcoin to hit 600, 000 in US dollar terms, that's just the equivalent of

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gold, every time in history a digital successor has gone after an analog

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predecessor, it hasn't equaled it.

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It's like crushed it, whether you think of like automobiles versus, you

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know, like horse and buggies or mobile phones versus rotary phones, this

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is Bitcoin verse analog gold, right?

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So, okay, let's get to 600, 000 of Bitcoin.

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Right?

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And then let's see what happens if it goes to 10x that, right?

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And we're at 6 ,million of Bitcoin.

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These other things are going to take care of themselves.

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We don't need to fight those battles now.

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Let's just fight the battle of being a digital gold

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eric, welcome to the Freedom Footprint show and welcome to Madeira.

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Thanks for having me.

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Yeah, it's great to be here.

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It's quite a, quite a venue.

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you got in yesterday night, I guess?

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Or yesterday afternoon?

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Yesterday morning?

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morning, yeah.

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Red Eye.

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How scary was the landing?

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It was actually pretty scary.

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There was quite a crosswind and, uh, we made it in one approach.

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We didn't have to pull up.

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I was speaking to someone last night and they had to take three

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approaches before they landed, but, uh, it was, it was a little scary.

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Those wings are getting pretty close to the runway and I've never landed on a

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runway that was supported by like cement pylons that's hanging out over the ocean.

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That's pretty scary.

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Now I know why it's the second most dangerous airport in the world.

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Yeah.

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That, that statistic though is, uh, a according to under at

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least, it's, it's slightly off.

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Because that was

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Before they

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they extended it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I was, I was here once with a, uh, small sailboat and we anchored just, just

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down, down from, uh, from the, the edge of those, of the runway on the pilots.

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So we, we saw the planes like.

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Lifting off, taking off above our, above our mast and everything.

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That's,

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it was pretty wild.

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Apparently now underneath the runway, they have like go karts that you

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Oh yeah.

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So maybe we'll check

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pretty cool.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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for our listeners that don't know you tell, can you tell

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them a little about yourself and

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Quick TLDR,

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Yeah.

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The, the, the TLDR is, uh, started out in traditional finance.

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And, uh, discovered Bitcoin in 2013, bought my first Bitcoin at the end of

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2013, um, started a Bitcoin fund, um, called Bitcoin Investment Group for people

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to, who are used to more traditional investing, high net worth individuals and

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family office types, to invest in Bitcoin.

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Uh, you know, opening an account at Coinbase wasn't something

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that was comfortable to them.

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There was no publicly traded products at the time, and so I

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started a fund that allowed people to invest dollars in Bitcoin.

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And they can leave and get back dollars, but we're also the only fund that

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will actually send them Bitcoin when they're ready to self custody as well.

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And, uh, charge like very low fees, 1 percent a year, which includes The

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custody at Fidelity Digital Assets and it's a simple little straightforward

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vehicle and uh, yeah, it's got, you know, decent amount of capital has flowed in

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and a lot of people got into Bitcoin like way before the ETF so it was great.

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Some happy, some happy limited partners.

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So what do you, uh, speaking of the ETFs, what do you think this will do to the, do

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you see, do you think we've seen even the beginning of what that's going to do to?

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I was, I was always in the camp very vocally that this was a really big deal.

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And people were saying, nah, it's all hype.

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All the money's come in.

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It's going to be a sell the news kind of situation.

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And I was very much having worked on Wall Street my whole life, not in that camp.

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The truth of the matter is the money of the world is in Wall Street.

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And until you open up the window for them to invest, and it gets blessed by

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the powers that need to bless it, it's just the capital's not going to come in.

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And so, there's this tidal wave of money, and we've just seen the first

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kind of splashes of this coming in.

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I know that some of the bigger firms like BlackRock and Fidelity, they

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haven't even unleashed like 25 percent of their distribution capabilities yet.

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The, this is mostly a retail wave of investors, institutional

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investors have way more constraints.

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For example, they can't be more than 5 percent of daily volume.

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They can't be.

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So even if you're trading a billion dollars, that's 50

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million that they could do.

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And for the pension funds and endowment funds of the world

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that doesn't even register.

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And the other thing is they just want to, they don't take risks.

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They want to see how the ETFs play out, how well they track bitcoin,

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which one, if any, are better than the other, before they make their move.

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And to us, the retail investor, there may be a really big

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difference between 40, 000.

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To the institutional investor in this pool of, you know, many, many, many billions of

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dollars of capital, there's no difference.

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They don't care about allocating.

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It's not a, oh, we got to get in.

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It's 60, 000 versus 120, 000.

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They genuinely do not care.

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So they're happy to take their time and wait, which is great for us because

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there's plenty more capital to come.

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Yeah.

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And most of them are using the same custodian, right?

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A lot of them are using Coinbase.

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Fidelity is obviously not.

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I think Fidelity is probably the safest custodian in the United States.

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They're doing their customing themselves.

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The other thing that's really big about the ETFs is not just the flow

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of funds and what it does for price.

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What's really big is from a regulatory and legal standpoint in the United

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States, this can never go back now.

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Bitcoin is now through the ETFs in the hands of endowment funds,

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pension funds, retirement accounts.

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So whether the next chairman of the SEC or the next president of the United States is

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against Bitcoin or not, it doesn't matter.

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They can't take it away from the people now.

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And that's the really big thing.

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We've crossed this massive chasm.

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And interestingly, right, it's only Bitcoin.

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That has crossed this chasm.

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It's not any of the other tokens or coin.

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No, no, no.

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And rightly so.

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Yeah.

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I mean, yeah, yeah, it's just fascinating to think about, like, the

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way I visualize it is, it's really this immovable object meet unstoppable force.

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That, that's where, that's the supply demand curve.

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That's the cross point, like, the crosshairs.

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but one point is one, one thing is more unstoppable than the other though, right?

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You can't stop that supply.

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Supply is capped,

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That's correct.

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That's correct.

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Yeah.

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We're, we're getting a real supply shock and a demand shock right now.

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And people don't fully understand it and it's going to

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get worse with the happening.

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Right.

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So people just really don't quite understand, uh, you know, the dynamic

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we've seen a little bit of it in the last month or last, 72 hours, even, where it

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seems to go parabolic, but it could, it could be significantly more dramatic.

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We could even see 50 to 100 percent in one day, because When, when the Bitcoin

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lands in strong hands and there's traders and there are people, um, who

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live their lives in fiat and they have goals and objectives for their life

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to buy a house, buy a car, whatever it is, and they will have a number in U.

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S.

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dollar terms in their mind where they're going to sell, but generally

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speaking, there are a lot of people like the three of us or Michael

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or others or micro strategy that just like, aren't going to sell.

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That's, most people are just not going to sell.

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Like, you'll pry it from my dead hands, right?

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So there's just very little supply factor in all that's been lost, you

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know, whatever, 4 million or so.

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And we're going to reach a point where you've got, you know, someone wants

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to buy a thousand Bitcoin of demand and there's 500 Bitcoin of supply.

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And the price is just going to go up very, very dramatically, very quickly.

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You think that this, these last days little hint of a bull

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run is, is the start of that?

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Yes and no.

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Yes and no.

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We're getting a glimpse, but also, you know, there are,

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there are traders out there.

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So there are plenty of people who came in at 51, 000 less than

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a month ago, and they're at 61, 000 now, and that's a big gain.

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And there will be no shortage of people who are going to take those profits.

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So that's going to generate sellers for us.

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The other thing that we have kind of helping us is as the US

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dollar price goes up, it takes less Bitcoin to meet the demand.

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So right.

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It's like if you have a hundred thousand dollars come in and at 50, 000, they

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could have satisfied it with two Bitcoin, you know, price of Bitcoin doubles.

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And now it's, they only need one Bitcoin to satisfy that same demand.

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So, do you see a risk with this ETF?

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Like, not your keys, not your coins, right?

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So, so like, that, that not, not only is It's owning a Bitcoin ETF, not only

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owning Bitcoin, but it's also like, if the ETFs themselves are using a

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custodian service, like, do you see a risk with that, that so many of the

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Bitcoins are going to end up in a so far

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I don't, I understand the conceptual risk.

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Um, I, I don't think that that's a legitimate concern, certainly not

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in the United States at this point.

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And if that were to become a concern, I don't think it happens overnight.

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There's plenty of foreshadowing, there's discussions in Congress,

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you know, there's, there's a lot of smoke before there's fire.

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And if that were to be a situation and people wanted Bitcoin, they

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would sell their ETFs and buy Bitcoin and take custody of their Bitcoin.

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Uh, in a more direct way, I, I really don't think it's a, a concern.

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Yeah.

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I think we should, as Bitcoiners, encourage that always, though, like self

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Yeah, I

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mean, the truth is I think self custody, we don't have the killer app

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for self custody yet in my opinion.

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It's still too, complicated may not be the right word, but it's still too, in some

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ways it, it presents more risk and more hassle and a lot of people don't want, I

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mean, I have some good friends in the self custody world, right, who, like, make the

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hardware wallets, etc, right, and I have looked into it extensively, I understand

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it fairly well, and it's not for me.

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I'm still more comfortable having my Bitcoin custody at Fidelity.

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So, you know, when, when they have the, this killer app that makes it super easy

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and safe in a multi sig way, and it's like, uh, it's a simple user interface,

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and I'm not worried about if something happens to me, what happens to my

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custody, and all these fail safes, or if I forget my pen, all kinds of stuff,

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like, there, there, there will be more mass adoption, but we're not there yet.

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I was with the folks, uh, one of the founders of Trezor, um,

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when we were in Prague at dinner.

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And by his numbers, 2 percent of people, self custody,

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Is that low?

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that low.

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Oh, holy.

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I mean, um, yeah, the, the, the thing with the, um, simple UXs and

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everything and, and, uh, convenience is that the trade off is always there.

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Like, so, so we might never see a killer app for, for self custody.

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Like, do you think such an app even exists?

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I think it will.

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I think it will.

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I think it'll happen in the next, you know, 12 to 24 months.

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I think we're going to see great strides in that area.

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In the next 12 to 24 words.

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ha.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Coincidence?

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Yeah, exactly.

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Um, yeah, I think, I think we will.

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There's so much, I, I think that's that whole area of money now

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being nothing but information and provably so, so it's so unexplored.

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Like this whole notion of, you know, 12 words, 12 magic words.

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It's so powerful.

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Like it's, it's

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And there's virtually no chance explaining that to someone over a certain age.

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No, they can't, can't get it.

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Can't get it, don't want to get it, and in a lot of cases, their livelihood

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depends on them not getting it.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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00:12:59,328 --> 00:13:00,808
And that's the, uh, what was it?

241
00:13:00,848 --> 00:13:02,218
Upton Sinclair quote.

242
00:13:02,418 --> 00:13:03,088
Yeah, yeah.

243
00:13:03,438 --> 00:13:04,068
That's really good.

244
00:13:04,068 --> 00:13:08,118
It's a very, uh, very hard to grasp something if your salary

245
00:13:08,118 --> 00:13:09,998
depends on not understanding it.

246
00:13:10,038 --> 00:13:10,438
Yeah.

247
00:13:10,918 --> 00:13:13,268
And all the boomers that actually do understand Bitcoin,

248
00:13:13,268 --> 00:13:14,718
they're all, they're all here.

249
00:13:15,953 --> 00:13:16,753
A good number of them.

250
00:13:16,753 --> 00:13:17,703
That's quite a turnout.

251
00:13:17,983 --> 00:13:21,213
Yeah, but it is, I mean, that's one thing that Wall Street does.

252
00:13:21,813 --> 00:13:27,448
And don't underestimate the benefit of The two largest asset management

253
00:13:27,458 --> 00:13:32,628
firms in the world, BlackRock and Fidelity, with their credibility, right?

254
00:13:32,638 --> 00:13:36,418
Nobody has more credibility than, uh, you know, Larry Fink

255
00:13:36,468 --> 00:13:38,528
or Abigail Johnson, right?

256
00:13:38,778 --> 00:13:43,148
They're not only the CEOs of their respective companies, they are the

257
00:13:43,218 --> 00:13:45,478
founder, in Larry's case, and the heir.

258
00:13:45,783 --> 00:13:50,643
In Abigail's case, and so they can have the courage to do something bold

259
00:13:50,643 --> 00:13:55,703
like this, whereas the CEO of Vanguard, right, serves at the pleasure of his

260
00:13:55,703 --> 00:14:00,333
board, and it's a job, granted he was in it for a long time, but you

261
00:14:00,333 --> 00:14:01,963
know, there's risk to that person,

262
00:14:02,538 --> 00:14:02,728
yeah,

263
00:14:02,728 --> 00:14:02,978
yeah,

264
00:14:03,893 --> 00:14:06,383
you know, it's their job, they serve at the pleasure of the

265
00:14:06,383 --> 00:14:07,593
board and they can be fired.

266
00:14:07,693 --> 00:14:11,683
He just resigned yesterday, or announced that he was going to resign, whether

267
00:14:11,683 --> 00:14:15,983
or not that's coincidence or not, who knows, but, you know, I can imagine.

268
00:14:16,338 --> 00:14:21,088
That his perspective was, yeah, this may be coming, but not on my watch.

269
00:14:21,398 --> 00:14:25,008
And he knew that he was leaving soon or something and you know, just

270
00:14:25,368 --> 00:14:28,178
kicked it down the road a little bit and now he's gone and now we'll

271
00:14:28,178 --> 00:14:29,518
have another bite at the apple.

272
00:14:29,868 --> 00:14:35,938
And maybe the next CEO embraces Bitcoin and maybe not, but the benefit of

273
00:14:35,948 --> 00:14:38,273
having the BlackRock's and Fidelity's.

274
00:14:38,273 --> 00:14:42,358
And the reason why they're doing this is they will educate their consumer in

275
00:14:42,358 --> 00:14:44,993
a credible, um, and very effective way.

276
00:14:45,003 --> 00:14:47,353
I mean, some of BlackRock's marketing materials, I don't know if you've

277
00:14:47,373 --> 00:14:48,353
seen them, they're excellent.

278
00:14:48,833 --> 00:14:51,993
So, you know, the plebs, we all create stuff and put it out there

279
00:14:51,993 --> 00:14:56,023
and it's on X or Twitter or whatever, but when the BlackRock's infidelity

280
00:14:56,023 --> 00:14:59,508
is of the world Uh, go to sell something and explain something.

281
00:14:59,628 --> 00:15:00,538
They're excellent at it.

282
00:15:01,178 --> 00:15:06,868
yeah, yeah, but don't sell your Bitcoin to BlackRock, like, that's a pro tip

283
00:15:06,978 --> 00:15:07,868
Don't sell your Bitcoin to

284
00:15:08,088 --> 00:15:11,014
no, don't even sell it to MicroStrategy, like, don't

285
00:15:11,628 --> 00:15:12,248
sell it to me.

286
00:15:12,368 --> 00:15:12,438
it.

287
00:15:13,313 --> 00:15:15,103
You don't sell your Bitcoin.

288
00:15:15,103 --> 00:15:15,943
That was, that was the phrase,

289
00:15:16,128 --> 00:15:16,768
That's right.

290
00:15:16,918 --> 00:15:17,528
You don't sell it.

291
00:15:17,528 --> 00:15:17,748
Yeah.

292
00:15:17,748 --> 00:15:20,408
Seller will say that as many times as he can.

293
00:15:20,833 --> 00:15:23,343
but you can trade it for goods and services though, right?

294
00:15:23,343 --> 00:15:23,953
Eventually.

295
00:15:24,203 --> 00:15:24,953
What do you think about that?

296
00:15:25,403 --> 00:15:25,903
No.

297
00:15:26,138 --> 00:15:29,528
No, that's, that's, there's no difference between trading it for goods and

298
00:15:29,528 --> 00:15:31,158
services and selling it in my opinion.

299
00:15:32,018 --> 00:15:38,548
Uh, you, you can borrow against your Bitcoin and then repay the loan and

300
00:15:38,548 --> 00:15:42,538
keep your Bitcoin in exchange for those goods and services or whatever you want,

301
00:15:42,548 --> 00:15:46,408
but no, I'm not, I'm not inclined to sell my Bitcoin for goods and services.

302
00:15:46,613 --> 00:15:49,473
What about in the scenario though, when everyone is completely

303
00:15:49,473 --> 00:15:50,883
hyperbitcoinized, right?

304
00:15:50,953 --> 00:15:54,713
I mean, maybe that's not in any of our lifetimes, but, uh, when, when everything

305
00:15:54,713 --> 00:15:58,633
is only Bitcoin, then it's just, just got to move around for, for costs and stuff.

306
00:15:59,003 --> 00:15:59,623
What do you think about that?

307
00:15:59,888 --> 00:16:02,488
Oh, I, I'm all in favor of the movement of Bitcoin.

308
00:16:02,938 --> 00:16:08,078
I might, you know, in some scenarios, lend my Bitcoin out, uh, to

309
00:16:08,078 --> 00:16:09,648
earn interest on it if there is.

310
00:16:10,203 --> 00:16:14,233
A way to make sure there was no real counterparty risk or something like that.

311
00:16:14,493 --> 00:16:17,083
I'm, I'm not at all opposed to the movement of Bitcoin.

312
00:16:17,323 --> 00:16:20,643
I'm just not going to be parting with any of my Bitcoin.

313
00:16:20,950 --> 00:16:21,810
that's a good way of putting it.

314
00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:25,120
Like play the Fiat games until Fiat disappears.

315
00:16:25,230 --> 00:16:25,420
Right.

316
00:16:25,420 --> 00:16:25,830
I guess.

317
00:16:26,250 --> 00:16:30,930
Yeah, I mean, I, I, I don't, I think a lot of fiats will disappear.

318
00:16:31,250 --> 00:16:33,230
I don't think fiat is going to disappear.

319
00:16:33,230 --> 00:16:38,035
I actually think that Bitcoin is Really good for the US dollar, and I think

320
00:16:38,035 --> 00:16:44,245
there can be plenty of nation states with fiat currencies that can make their

321
00:16:44,245 --> 00:16:47,125
fiat survive by backing it with bitcoin.

322
00:16:47,505 --> 00:16:50,875
So, I, I think fiat is necessary and will exist.

323
00:16:51,215 --> 00:16:52,055
I, I'm just

324
00:16:52,225 --> 00:16:52,895
Forever?

325
00:16:53,175 --> 00:16:53,945
potentially, yeah.

326
00:16:53,985 --> 00:16:57,225
I don't see any reason for the US dollar or euro or Chinese yuan.

327
00:16:57,555 --> 00:17:01,705
To go away, I think the weaker fiats will go away, but as a,

328
00:17:01,725 --> 00:17:05,415
as a medium of exchange, I think they serve a valuable purpose.

329
00:17:06,135 --> 00:17:06,475
Hmm.

330
00:17:06,825 --> 00:17:07,405
Interesting.

331
00:17:07,670 --> 00:17:10,160
Can you explain how it's good for the US dollar specifically?

332
00:17:10,632 --> 00:17:11,002
Sure.

333
00:17:11,022 --> 00:17:15,122
I mean, first of all, it's good for Bitcoin that their fiat currencies exist

334
00:17:15,842 --> 00:17:20,572
to the extent that you start viewing Bitcoin in opposition to fiat currencies.

335
00:17:21,022 --> 00:17:24,062
You create the single most powerful enemies in the world.

336
00:17:24,802 --> 00:17:31,362
And as great as we're feeling about Bitcoin right now, as a 1 trillion asset,

337
00:17:31,972 --> 00:17:36,512
if China and the United States were to get together and decided they wanted

338
00:17:36,522 --> 00:17:38,772
Bitcoin to go away, it will go away.

339
00:17:39,352 --> 00:17:39,692
Okay.

340
00:17:39,742 --> 00:17:45,032
So, you know, let's see, we, we are as unstoppable as we can

341
00:17:45,032 --> 00:17:47,872
be, but we are stoppable, right?

342
00:17:47,892 --> 00:17:48,972
And to some degree,

343
00:17:49,042 --> 00:17:49,602
Really?

344
00:17:50,382 --> 00:17:51,262
yes, really.

345
00:17:51,302 --> 00:17:55,062
Oh, this is fun, because I think this is where we might disagree.

346
00:17:55,062 --> 00:17:57,942
I think we may be stoppable for a thousand years, but I

347
00:17:57,962 --> 00:17:59,572
think we come back after that.

348
00:17:59,892 --> 00:18:04,742
I, uh, My, correct, my, perhaps my view was a little shorter than yours.

349
00:18:05,102 --> 00:18:09,182
I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, maybe selfishly, slightly more concerned about my

350
00:18:09,182 --> 00:18:11,932
lifetime than, than post 1, 000 years.

351
00:18:11,932 --> 00:18:17,032
But, you know, in, in, uh, also in, you know, fi all of, you know, known history

352
00:18:17,032 --> 00:18:18,512
is what, like, a few thousand years.

353
00:18:18,802 --> 00:18:23,112
So, you know, in 5, 000 years, you know, like, uh, Marcus Aurelius,

354
00:18:23,132 --> 00:18:25,932
soon you will have forgotten all and all will have forgotten you.

355
00:18:26,282 --> 00:18:30,312
So, you know, I'm not sure anyone from You know, our civilization

356
00:18:30,312 --> 00:18:32,132
will be remembered in 5, 000 years.

357
00:18:37,745 --> 00:18:38,005
years?

358
00:18:38,005 --> 00:18:39,955
Because that's sort of required, too, like,

359
00:18:40,135 --> 00:18:40,615
Yeah.

360
00:18:40,655 --> 00:18:43,875
I mean, as long as the, as long as the world is still here as we know

361
00:18:43,875 --> 00:18:47,935
it, then I think the answer is yes, but it's also entirely plausible that,

362
00:18:48,465 --> 00:18:52,435
you know, we'll blow ourselves up or something, or there'll be a total reset

363
00:18:52,655 --> 00:18:54,655
as there's probably been many, many times.

364
00:18:55,125 --> 00:18:56,405
Throughout civilization, right?

365
00:18:56,405 --> 00:19:01,085
We've, they found, eh, they found a hand axe factory

366
00:19:01,635 --> 00:19:02,040
in

367
00:19:02,345 --> 00:19:05,495
Ethiopia that they estimate is 1.

368
00:19:05,555 --> 00:19:07,085
2 million years old.

369
00:19:07,575 --> 00:19:10,035
So, you know, if you think about that,

370
00:19:10,705 --> 00:19:11,105
yes,

371
00:19:11,405 --> 00:19:12,895
civilization got to a point.

372
00:19:13,235 --> 00:19:17,435
Where it wasn't an individual making a handaxe for personal use, it was a factory

373
00:19:17,775 --> 00:19:19,505
where they were assembling handaxes.

374
00:19:19,565 --> 00:19:21,705
So, civilization got to a point 1.

375
00:19:21,705 --> 00:19:25,605
2 million years ago where we were that far along.

376
00:19:25,885 --> 00:19:27,965
There's nothing in our history, no knowledge of that.

377
00:19:27,965 --> 00:19:29,535
We go back a few thousand years.

378
00:19:29,825 --> 00:19:34,675
So, you know, maybe there was some kind of reset or something, some Nuclear holocaust

379
00:19:34,725 --> 00:19:37,935
or something that like annihilated the planet and we started again or something.

380
00:19:37,975 --> 00:19:38,095
I don't

381
00:19:38,155 --> 00:19:42,265
it's probably the CO2 levels from the Handaxe factory that

382
00:19:43,495 --> 00:19:44,185
Exactly.

383
00:19:44,525 --> 00:19:46,795
You got to be careful with those CO2 levels, man.

384
00:19:47,295 --> 00:19:49,415
You got to be very careful about our energy usage.

385
00:19:49,865 --> 00:19:53,605
Oh, well, yeah, what a time to be alive

386
00:21:02,348 --> 00:21:07,838
yeah, but I do, I do think that, I do think that, um, for example, if a

387
00:21:07,838 --> 00:21:13,418
country like Turkey, okay, that's still able to issue Turkish lira and sell

388
00:21:13,418 --> 00:21:14,878
bonds and do things of that nature.

389
00:21:15,248 --> 00:21:19,808
If they were to issue, you know, billions of dollars worth of, you

390
00:21:19,808 --> 00:21:25,308
know, national debt and they took the entire proceeds of it and they bought

391
00:21:25,508 --> 00:21:30,733
Bitcoin, they could start to back Their currency back, the Turkish lira with

392
00:21:30,783 --> 00:21:35,543
Bitcoin, and it might just save the Turkish lira, which is otherwise doomed.

393
00:21:35,954 --> 00:21:39,344
Yeah, that's, that's so fascinating though, because like, that's, that

394
00:21:39,344 --> 00:21:44,034
is, you know, there's no, there's no such thing as intrinsic value

395
00:21:44,034 --> 00:21:48,704
as you know, but this, this is like such a weird abstract, uh, mind,

396
00:21:49,221 --> 00:21:52,851
experiments with something that is just.

397
00:21:53,611 --> 00:21:55,121
Mathematics and,

398
00:21:55,586 --> 00:21:56,126
Yeah,

399
00:21:56,351 --> 00:22:02,394
and communication backing something that is just like I have a difficulty

400
00:22:02,394 --> 00:22:07,834
seeing how people wouldn't choose to self custody Bitcoin instead of, you

401
00:22:07,834 --> 00:22:10,074
know, using the Lira that is backed by

402
00:22:10,179 --> 00:22:13,299
they may, but if, you know, every Turkish lira was, you

403
00:22:13,299 --> 00:22:15,139
know, backed by a thousand sats.

404
00:22:15,574 --> 00:22:19,584
And one Turkish Lira was equal to a thousand sats, the Turkish

405
00:22:19,584 --> 00:22:23,934
Lira would maintain value and have value as Bitcoin had value.

406
00:22:24,664 --> 00:22:25,154
Yeah.

407
00:22:25,474 --> 00:22:30,514
Except you can do fractional on the Lira, but not on the Bitcoin base layer.

408
00:22:30,604 --> 00:22:33,704
So you could say that they're redeemable for this, but you could still do

409
00:22:33,704 --> 00:22:35,294
fractional reserve banking, right?

410
00:22:35,858 --> 00:22:36,418
Yes,

411
00:22:36,598 --> 00:22:38,438
In a way you can't on the base layer.

412
00:22:39,098 --> 00:22:39,458
So,

413
00:22:39,838 --> 00:22:39,998
Yeah.

414
00:22:39,998 --> 00:22:41,328
The government can still screw you.

415
00:22:41,678 --> 00:22:42,018
Right.

416
00:22:42,058 --> 00:22:42,618
Essentially.

417
00:22:42,838 --> 00:22:44,228
But my point is.

418
00:22:44,843 --> 00:22:46,213
They're completely screwed now.

419
00:22:46,473 --> 00:22:50,503
Like, it's obvious to anyone that the Turkish Lira is going the

420
00:22:50,503 --> 00:22:53,303
way of the Argentine Peso, right?

421
00:22:53,463 --> 00:22:55,363
Or Venezuelan currency, right?

422
00:22:55,433 --> 00:22:57,703
So, they can try to do something.

423
00:22:57,743 --> 00:22:59,873
This would be something good that would help.

424
00:23:00,143 --> 00:23:05,033
All of a sudden You know, if Turk, if, if they were honest about it and they didn't

425
00:23:05,033 --> 00:23:10,023
screw you and a Turkish lira was backed by some number of sats, people would want

426
00:23:10,023 --> 00:23:11,913
to, I would want to hold Turkish lira.

427
00:23:12,343 --> 00:23:15,193
I'd be like, wow, the Turkish lira is trading cheap right now to the

428
00:23:15,193 --> 00:23:16,593
number of sats it's backed by.

429
00:23:16,843 --> 00:23:19,803
There's some level of trust, you know, that maybe the government's

430
00:23:19,813 --> 00:23:21,533
going to honor it and really keep it.

431
00:23:21,883 --> 00:23:23,293
I'll stack some Turkish lira.

432
00:23:23,518 --> 00:23:25,868
Do you think they have any incentive to do so though?

433
00:23:26,098 --> 00:23:27,988
Like, why would the government do that?

434
00:23:28,448 --> 00:23:33,048
Well, every time, you know, a, a currency, you know, go,

435
00:23:33,048 --> 00:23:34,518
a fiat currency goes to zero.

436
00:23:34,523 --> 00:23:35,808
It's not, it's not good for the

437
00:23:35,978 --> 00:23:36,618
no, no, no,

438
00:23:36,828 --> 00:23:40,338
So, uh, that, I guess that's their incentive is take a shot.

439
00:23:40,338 --> 00:23:44,078
Like what is it if, if, if death, if death is inevitable?

440
00:23:44,078 --> 00:23:44,373
You, you

441
00:23:45,008 --> 00:23:45,133
it

442
00:23:45,168 --> 00:23:45,808
might as well.

443
00:23:45,848 --> 00:23:47,768
and by the way, it can happen at a municipal level.

444
00:23:47,768 --> 00:23:49,238
It doesn't have to be a national level.

445
00:23:49,478 --> 00:23:52,738
You could have like the, you know, the state of New York, you know,

446
00:23:52,738 --> 00:23:54,538
or New York City could issue bonds.

447
00:23:54,798 --> 00:23:58,848
And by Bitcoin with the proceeds, it worked out really well for micro strategy.

448
00:23:58,848 --> 00:24:02,008
Why wouldn't it work out well for a municipality or a

449
00:24:02,178 --> 00:24:03,508
No, no, yeah,

450
00:24:03,678 --> 00:24:06,738
Maybe I'm getting the, maybe I'm a little lost on the math here a little bit

451
00:24:06,748 --> 00:24:10,808
though, but when a currency is already hyperinflating, it's a bit of a risky

452
00:24:10,808 --> 00:24:16,788
game, right, to try and catch it, to inflate further to buy the Bitcoin, right?

453
00:24:16,868 --> 00:24:18,348
Like, is there some risk?

454
00:24:18,728 --> 00:24:20,038
Oh, of course, of course.

455
00:24:20,038 --> 00:24:23,428
I, well, there's a little bit of, yeah, there's risk, but you're,

456
00:24:23,668 --> 00:24:28,308
you're going to die, like you're, you're in critical condition, right?

457
00:24:28,308 --> 00:24:28,758
So.

458
00:24:29,083 --> 00:24:33,023
It depends, like, how high will Bitcoin go, right?

459
00:24:33,023 --> 00:24:37,263
If you're, if you're diluting yourself now, essentially, and inflating the

460
00:24:37,263 --> 00:24:44,243
currency now, but Bitcoin 1000Xs from where we are, and you, you know, inflate

461
00:24:44,243 --> 00:24:49,093
your currency by, you know, 100X, you're still going to get massive benefit.

462
00:24:49,663 --> 00:24:52,513
So the point is to get, to get some backing in Bitcoin.

463
00:24:52,513 --> 00:24:57,773
It is sort of tethered to a specific level and then that level can stay somewhat

464
00:24:57,803 --> 00:25:00,293
Right now, the Turkish Lira has no backing, right?

465
00:25:00,608 --> 00:25:00,768
no.

466
00:25:01,548 --> 00:25:04,938
The full faith and credit of the Turkish government, which is worth what?

467
00:25:05,348 --> 00:25:05,368
Yeah.

468
00:25:07,018 --> 00:25:08,768
They have more faith than credit, I think.

469
00:25:09,724 --> 00:25:10,064
so,

470
00:25:10,084 --> 00:25:10,734
That's good.

471
00:25:10,764 --> 00:25:11,114
Yes.

472
00:25:11,648 --> 00:25:15,838
speaking of fiat currencies, like right now, Bitcoin is at an all time high in

473
00:25:15,838 --> 00:25:19,008
a lot of fiat currencies, including the currency I grew up with, the Swedish

474
00:25:19,028 --> 00:25:21,968
krona, and also in the Norwegian kronas.

475
00:25:21,968 --> 00:25:27,088
It's, uh, because the Swedish krona lost 40 percent against

476
00:25:27,088 --> 00:25:29,218
the dollar in the last 10 years.

477
00:25:29,608 --> 00:25:32,258
And people in the country, like, no one talks about this.

478
00:25:32,298 --> 00:25:33,458
Everyone's oblivious to it.

479
00:25:33,458 --> 00:25:35,478
They, they don't realize what that means.

480
00:25:35,954 --> 00:25:39,724
but what it basically means is that you guys, well, not you personally,

481
00:25:39,794 --> 00:25:44,794
but the Fed printed stuff and stole all our stuff like that, that's,

482
00:25:44,884 --> 00:25:46,234
that's what's going on, right?

483
00:25:46,319 --> 00:25:47,279
That's exactly right.

484
00:25:47,314 --> 00:25:51,994
so, uh, so what do you think about these smaller national currencies?

485
00:25:52,304 --> 00:25:56,064
Are they, how close to hyperinflating are they in, in, in your view?

486
00:25:56,723 --> 00:26:02,883
I'm not a, I'm not a macroeconomist, but it is, it is clear that every

487
00:26:02,883 --> 00:26:08,223
currency is doing worse than the dollar and the dollar is doing poorly against

488
00:26:08,253 --> 00:26:10,373
truly scarce hard assets as well.

489
00:26:10,783 --> 00:26:13,396
So it's, it's just devastating.

490
00:26:13,886 --> 00:26:15,436
Um, how long it takes.

491
00:26:15,436 --> 00:26:21,626
I mean, there's what, 140 or something now, uh, no fiat currencies.

492
00:26:22,216 --> 00:26:26,306
In a hundred years, you know, I'd be surprised if there's more than 40.

493
00:26:27,081 --> 00:26:31,341
So, you know, what the timetable is, I don't know, but

494
00:26:32,021 --> 00:26:33,301
governments aren't going to stop.

495
00:26:33,361 --> 00:26:34,681
There's no way to stop.

496
00:26:35,111 --> 00:26:38,761
People have learned, people are power hungry.

497
00:26:38,851 --> 00:26:42,751
Politicians are power hungry, almost, you know, to a person.

498
00:26:42,761 --> 00:26:44,241
There's very few exceptions, right?

499
00:26:44,656 --> 00:26:47,606
And they've learned that they get elected by promising people shit

500
00:26:47,606 --> 00:26:48,886
that the government can't afford.

501
00:26:49,506 --> 00:26:53,956
And this is what they, and it's, it's not unique to a particular political party.

502
00:26:53,956 --> 00:26:55,016
Some are worse than others.

503
00:26:55,266 --> 00:26:57,666
But at the end of the day, they all spend money they don't have.

504
00:26:58,096 --> 00:27:02,646
And that cycle continues, and the government can try to misdirect, all

505
00:27:02,646 --> 00:27:06,036
governments can try to misdirect us that there's some other cause of the

506
00:27:06,036 --> 00:27:11,076
inflation, whether it's Putin's war, or greedy companies, or whatever it is.

507
00:27:11,076 --> 00:27:12,796
But at the end of the day, it's money supply.

508
00:27:13,406 --> 00:27:17,846
And they're not slowing down the increase in money supply.

509
00:27:17,856 --> 00:27:20,926
I mean, they are slowing it down, but just because it was so hyper

510
00:27:20,956 --> 00:27:22,976
crazy, but it's not stopping.

511
00:27:23,361 --> 00:27:23,601
Yeah.

512
00:27:23,601 --> 00:27:28,941
The, the way I see it is like the, the urge for there to be a free lunch is the

513
00:27:28,941 --> 00:27:31,701
root cause of all human problems almost.

514
00:27:32,306 --> 00:27:37,146
And also, like, the lag is what causes the problem, right?

515
00:27:37,551 --> 00:27:40,631
It's, uh, you can do this on your watch.

516
00:27:41,091 --> 00:27:45,021
The effect, the negative effects of what you've done happen,

517
00:27:45,091 --> 00:27:46,791
happen one chapter later.

518
00:27:47,081 --> 00:27:52,301
So you, the individuals that did this aren't going to get

519
00:27:52,571 --> 00:27:54,261
immediately killed for doing it.

520
00:27:54,311 --> 00:27:55,621
It's the next.

521
00:27:56,531 --> 00:27:58,511
Group that comes in that's gonna bear the burden.

522
00:27:58,741 --> 00:28:03,211
That's one of the, uh, inherent problems with democratic systems like the, they

523
00:28:03,211 --> 00:28:08,011
don't, uh, you're not incentivized as a politician to think long term.

524
00:28:08,101 --> 00:28:12,546
So that's why these narratives around monarchies being better long term

525
00:28:12,686 --> 00:28:14,991
is popping up in the Bitcoin space.

526
00:28:15,261 --> 00:28:18,291
Yeah, I have a, I mean, one of those things on that topic that always

527
00:28:18,291 --> 00:28:22,511
stuck with me is I have a friend who's in the uh, uh, selling defense

528
00:28:22,571 --> 00:28:27,791
related stuff, and they sell to like basically every nation state in the

529
00:28:27,791 --> 00:28:30,551
world, and they were talking to China.

530
00:28:30,821 --> 00:28:34,021
Actually, and the Chinese said, yeah, we're, we're interested.

531
00:28:34,291 --> 00:28:38,551
And he came back to him like a year later and he's like, you know, when

532
00:28:38,661 --> 00:28:41,511
we're interested, but we're not interested like now, soon though.

533
00:28:41,711 --> 00:28:43,541
And he said, well, what do you mean soon?

534
00:28:43,591 --> 00:28:47,331
And he's like, yeah, you know, come back to us in like 25, 30 years.

535
00:28:47,921 --> 00:28:51,991
So they're thinking in a hundred year cycles, whereas

536
00:28:52,001 --> 00:28:53,261
the United States government.

537
00:28:53,591 --> 00:28:56,201
is thinking in, you know, two to four year

538
00:28:56,391 --> 00:28:56,571
Yeah.

539
00:28:56,571 --> 00:28:56,871
Yeah.

540
00:28:56,876 --> 00:28:56,966
Yeah.

541
00:28:57,261 --> 00:28:57,581
right?

542
00:28:57,581 --> 00:28:59,531
And it's just a very different perspective.

543
00:28:59,749 --> 00:29:00,669
Very much so.

544
00:29:00,821 --> 00:29:04,741
Advantage, you know, monarchies or dictatorships.

545
00:29:04,806 --> 00:29:05,136
Yep.

546
00:29:06,076 --> 00:29:10,576
The US Congress two year cycle I think has got to be the worst almost in the whole

547
00:29:10,576 --> 00:29:12,936
world in terms of just this churn, right?

548
00:29:13,126 --> 00:29:16,106
The entire lower house has to be re elected every two years.

549
00:29:16,106 --> 00:29:17,186
How do you get anything done?

550
00:29:17,476 --> 00:29:19,546
That system just seems crazy.

551
00:29:19,751 --> 00:29:24,561
getting stuff done is overrated, but, uh, but, yeah, it's,

552
00:29:24,611 --> 00:29:26,241
it's clearly a broken system.

553
00:29:26,241 --> 00:29:30,561
And the fact that like a, a senator serves one term, and

554
00:29:30,751 --> 00:29:32,061
they get their salary for life.

555
00:29:33,401 --> 00:29:34,691
Absolutely ridiculous.

556
00:29:35,211 --> 00:29:40,131
Um, there, there are so many, there are so many broken things about the US system.

557
00:29:40,481 --> 00:29:45,971
I mean, the very fact that, um, they're not subject to the same rules that they

558
00:29:46,011 --> 00:29:49,971
create for the rest of the world, like Obamacare was another it's like, Hey,

559
00:29:49,971 --> 00:29:51,731
this healthcare system is good for you.

560
00:29:51,741 --> 00:29:52,671
Entire country.

561
00:29:52,921 --> 00:29:55,021
Oh, but members of Congress, we have our own.

562
00:29:55,031 --> 00:29:57,461
We're not, we're not subject to, to that nightmare.

563
00:29:57,461 --> 00:30:00,681
It's just, you know, very, very Messed up.

564
00:30:00,701 --> 00:30:04,731
There's a lot of misincentives and misalignment in all government and U.

565
00:30:04,731 --> 00:30:04,901
S.

566
00:30:04,901 --> 00:30:06,271
is no exception.

567
00:30:06,956 --> 00:30:10,986
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, uh, like the clown world we see everywhere

568
00:30:10,986 --> 00:30:15,016
that the same rules do not apply to, like, and it should be so

569
00:30:15,016 --> 00:30:19,156
obvious in this interconnected world that we live in in 2024.

570
00:30:19,166 --> 00:30:21,376
Like, why don't the same laws apply

571
00:30:21,421 --> 00:30:21,631
Yeah.

572
00:30:21,631 --> 00:30:22,111
Rules for

573
00:30:22,111 --> 00:30:22,761
thee, but not for

574
00:30:22,946 --> 00:30:23,756
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

575
00:30:24,371 --> 00:30:27,491
It's like California lockdown, right?

576
00:30:27,521 --> 00:30:28,741
Like nobody can go anywhere.

577
00:30:28,741 --> 00:30:32,691
And then Gavin Newsom's at like, you know, Thomas Keller's

578
00:30:32,701 --> 00:30:34,321
restaurant, like having dinner.

579
00:30:34,321 --> 00:30:35,321
It's like, really?

580
00:30:35,391 --> 00:30:37,101
Like this is your state, you idiot.

581
00:30:37,111 --> 00:30:39,451
You can't even like follow your own mandates.

582
00:30:39,501 --> 00:30:40,151
It's amazing.

583
00:30:40,241 --> 00:30:41,801
Just the arrogance is amazing.

584
00:30:41,986 --> 00:30:46,956
Late stage, uh, lockdowns were, were an interesting time because I flew, I

585
00:30:46,956 --> 00:30:51,146
flew quite a lot then and you're seeing different airports having different rules.

586
00:30:51,146 --> 00:30:54,606
So in one airport, nobody gives a shit and then another, everyone's wearing

587
00:30:54,606 --> 00:30:56,566
the double diapers and whatever.

588
00:30:56,906 --> 00:30:57,716
And it's, yeah,

589
00:30:57,791 --> 00:31:01,741
And it was, it was, it was also not particularly commonsensical, right?

590
00:31:01,741 --> 00:31:07,271
I mean, there was one situation where, uh, they wouldn't let, uh, us leave a country.

591
00:31:07,271 --> 00:31:11,231
I was with some friends and they wouldn't let us leave a country unless we had.

592
00:31:11,301 --> 00:31:14,011
And we had COVID tests and proof of this and proof of that.

593
00:31:14,011 --> 00:31:14,351
Right.

594
00:31:14,711 --> 00:31:20,661
But we were getting on a friend's airplane and we were leaving the country

595
00:31:20,711 --> 00:31:23,091
on our own airplane by ourselves.

596
00:31:23,391 --> 00:31:27,731
If anybody on that airplane had anything, you want us leaving your country.

597
00:31:28,021 --> 00:31:32,121
Like, exporting us is the best thing you can do without risking any other people.

598
00:31:32,121 --> 00:31:32,361
Right.

599
00:31:32,581 --> 00:31:33,410
And it's like, it's

600
00:31:33,410 --> 00:31:33,610
Not for

601
00:31:33,610 --> 00:31:34,546
the other country though.

602
00:31:34,661 --> 00:31:36,461
yeah, well, but it wasn't them that cared.

603
00:31:36,461 --> 00:31:37,961
It was the people that wouldn't let us leave.

604
00:31:39,806 --> 00:31:40,736
Like, where's the thought?

605
00:31:40,746 --> 00:31:42,516
There's like no thought process whatsoever.

606
00:31:42,516 --> 00:31:46,798
It's just, you know, government regulation, overreach, massive overreach.

607
00:31:46,826 --> 00:31:46,901
It

608
00:31:46,946 --> 00:31:49,236
showed us how common sense is not very common.

609
00:31:49,396 --> 00:31:52,346
Yeah, but it, but it did shake up a lot of people.

610
00:31:52,386 --> 00:31:57,396
And one of the benefits of that was, um, you know, I've been talking

611
00:31:57,396 --> 00:32:01,816
about Bitcoin a lot since 2013, and Saylor wasn't particularly

612
00:32:01,816 --> 00:32:03,236
receptive to hearing about it.

613
00:32:03,526 --> 00:32:06,476
He's running a company with a couple thousand people fighting the likes

614
00:32:06,476 --> 00:32:11,681
of Microsoft and Salesforce every day, and it was only because of

615
00:32:11,821 --> 00:32:16,491
that lunacy in the world not making sense that I was able to, you know,

616
00:32:16,751 --> 00:32:17,791
get through to him at that time.

617
00:32:18,091 --> 00:32:18,221
So

618
00:32:18,251 --> 00:32:20,451
that played such a huge part in that.

619
00:32:20,621 --> 00:32:21,231
A hundred percent.

620
00:32:21,291 --> 00:32:22,991
It was the only reason he was receptive.

621
00:32:23,551 --> 00:32:24,221
Fantastic.

622
00:32:25,044 --> 00:32:25,244
Yeah.

623
00:32:25,244 --> 00:32:25,904
He remembers.

624
00:32:25,904 --> 00:32:28,884
I said something to him like we were, we were at his house

625
00:32:28,894 --> 00:32:31,044
quarantining there because it's very

626
00:32:31,464 --> 00:32:33,844
I would quarantine there too, if I had the option.

627
00:32:33,964 --> 00:32:34,474
Yeah, yeah.

628
00:32:34,614 --> 00:32:36,124
It's better, much better than my apartment.

629
00:32:36,464 --> 00:32:39,734
Um, not that my apartment's not great, but his, his place is spectacular.

630
00:32:39,734 --> 00:32:43,034
So we were, we were, the two of us were kind of hanging out

631
00:32:43,034 --> 00:32:44,554
quarantining there every day.

632
00:32:45,004 --> 00:32:48,544
And, um, trying to make sense of what was happening in the world stock

633
00:32:48,544 --> 00:32:52,364
market going up while every business is closed and the world is coming to

634
00:32:52,364 --> 00:32:56,404
a stop and unbeknownst to me, he was very concerned about MicroStrategy's

635
00:32:56,424 --> 00:33:02,064
situation, having 500 million in cash and, you know, thinking inflation is

636
00:33:02,064 --> 00:33:06,344
taking away 10 percent of this 50 million a year, I'm losing in purchasing power.

637
00:33:06,344 --> 00:33:10,084
And meanwhile, 2000 people are working For his company in the hopes that

638
00:33:10,084 --> 00:33:13,154
the company makes 50 million a year and it's like a treadmill, right?

639
00:33:13,164 --> 00:33:14,344
Just like you're never gonna get anywhere.

640
00:33:14,344 --> 00:33:16,154
So he was looking for stores of value.

641
00:33:16,414 --> 00:33:20,384
I didn't know that part And then when I brought up Bitcoin, I said he

642
00:33:20,384 --> 00:33:24,244
remembers me saying something like anytime there's a paradigm shift, you

643
00:33:24,244 --> 00:33:25,744
know Like this there's opportunity.

644
00:33:25,744 --> 00:33:29,139
We just have to find the opportunity And then I didn't connect the two, but

645
00:33:29,139 --> 00:33:32,049
I started talking about Bitcoin again, because that's what we do, right?

646
00:33:32,419 --> 00:33:36,269
And, uh, this time, instead of dismissing the conversation, Michael

647
00:33:36,369 --> 00:33:37,809
said, Tell me more about that.

648
00:33:37,849 --> 00:33:42,189
And I was like, what And, uh, so that, that's how we started

649
00:33:42,189 --> 00:33:44,609
and then spent, I don't know, the better part of a few weeks.

650
00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:48,419
Talking about Bitcoin and, uh, yeah, that's how it started.

651
00:33:48,768 --> 00:33:49,558
That's fantastic.

652
00:33:49,788 --> 00:33:53,688
And like, Michael is not the only intelligent person in the world.

653
00:33:53,778 --> 00:33:58,308
There are, I'm sure there are plenty others that have, like,

654
00:33:58,398 --> 00:34:01,598
had similar stories that might not be as vocal about it.

655
00:34:01,948 --> 00:34:03,608
But these things are happening everywhere

656
00:34:03,753 --> 00:34:04,183
They are.

657
00:34:04,348 --> 00:34:07,638
that's what I thought when I left, left my last Fiat position and,

658
00:34:07,668 --> 00:34:11,838
and, um, back in Sweden, like, uh, I'm the dork here in this office

659
00:34:12,238 --> 00:34:14,518
that goes around being a maniac.

660
00:34:14,898 --> 00:34:20,158
And, uh, but, but there are plenty, plenty like me and we're all around the world.

661
00:34:20,158 --> 00:34:22,918
So when you go to these conferences and these meetups, it feels

662
00:34:22,918 --> 00:34:25,028
small, but we're everywhere.

663
00:34:25,438 --> 00:34:30,578
Like it is really, I mean, every little one horse town in any country.

664
00:34:31,123 --> 00:34:33,183
It's all about, it's all about individuals.

665
00:34:33,183 --> 00:34:37,353
I don't want to steal too much from Michael's presentation in a, in a

666
00:34:37,623 --> 00:34:42,383
couple hours, but at the end of the day, everything is comprised of individuals,

667
00:34:42,383 --> 00:34:44,263
whether it's government, corporations.

668
00:34:44,848 --> 00:34:45,598
Families.

669
00:34:45,598 --> 00:34:47,938
And so everything is at the individual level, right?

670
00:34:48,168 --> 00:34:53,768
So you, when I orange pilled, for lack of a better term, sailor, right, I was

671
00:34:53,768 --> 00:34:58,208
talking to my friend is a one on one thing, but he had a company, right?

672
00:34:58,368 --> 00:35:01,138
And I wasn't trying to orange pill micro strategy.

673
00:35:01,563 --> 00:35:05,363
I was just trying to explain to my really smart friend why this is

674
00:35:05,363 --> 00:35:07,113
cool and perhaps really meaningful.

675
00:35:07,363 --> 00:35:10,873
And then he's part of a company, he's got political views,

676
00:35:10,883 --> 00:35:12,213
he's got whatever he's got.

677
00:35:12,473 --> 00:35:15,763
And so it's one individual impacts all these different areas.

678
00:35:15,853 --> 00:35:19,583
So at the end of the day, everything comes down to one on one communication

679
00:35:19,583 --> 00:35:20,943
or education and individuals.

680
00:35:21,168 --> 00:35:26,198
yeah, and that's, that's such a beautiful, that's what Bitcoin points out to people

681
00:35:26,508 --> 00:35:31,728
because at the end of the day, the Bitcoin are the people, like we have,

682
00:35:32,008 --> 00:35:36,938
if you have a private key or know the location of it, it's in your head, so

683
00:35:36,958 --> 00:35:41,438
effectively you are the Bitcoin, so it's about us and it's about us as individuals.

684
00:35:42,433 --> 00:35:42,963
Beautiful.

685
00:35:43,193 --> 00:35:43,773
it's true, man.

686
00:35:43,773 --> 00:35:44,463
It is beautiful.

687
00:35:44,473 --> 00:35:50,483
The other thing is, it's, um, it requires a lot of either courage or,

688
00:35:51,324 --> 00:35:54,004
Confidence in oneself to see Bitcoin.

689
00:35:54,494 --> 00:35:57,714
You know, it's like you can, your friend can tell you about Bitcoin.

690
00:35:57,724 --> 00:35:59,414
Someone can tell you, this is cool stuff.

691
00:35:59,414 --> 00:36:02,244
And you can think, okay, this person's really smart.

692
00:36:02,244 --> 00:36:02,884
I respect them.

693
00:36:02,884 --> 00:36:03,374
I like them.

694
00:36:03,374 --> 00:36:05,084
Maybe I'll, maybe I'll get some Bitcoin.

695
00:36:05,654 --> 00:36:10,484
And then you live through some Bitcoin cycles, but it goes down 50%.

696
00:36:10,819 --> 00:36:14,989
And it's almost impossible for you to have the conviction in this because your smart

697
00:36:14,999 --> 00:36:17,389
friend, you know, has conviction in this.

698
00:36:17,809 --> 00:36:20,379
You've got to do your own work and your own research.

699
00:36:20,649 --> 00:36:24,229
And if you've put in the time and you've spent, you know, a thousand

700
00:36:24,229 --> 00:36:27,879
hours looking into this, then when it goes down, if you really have

701
00:36:27,899 --> 00:36:31,189
conviction, a la Warren Buffett with the stocks that he invests in, right?

702
00:36:31,419 --> 00:36:32,709
When it goes down, you're happy.

703
00:36:33,989 --> 00:36:35,409
It's a really weird concept.

704
00:36:35,419 --> 00:36:36,949
People don't believe it when we say it.

705
00:36:37,304 --> 00:36:40,764
But you're like, Oh shit, I can get more for less.

706
00:36:41,344 --> 00:36:41,724
Right.

707
00:36:41,764 --> 00:36:44,514
And it's a, it's a great experience because you're so

708
00:36:44,544 --> 00:36:46,154
confident in where it's going.

709
00:36:46,404 --> 00:36:49,404
Like selling when it goes down is not, you know, it's not even a thing.

710
00:36:49,444 --> 00:36:49,824
Right.

711
00:36:50,164 --> 00:36:55,504
So it's just a very different mindset, but it only comes from the confidence and

712
00:36:55,824 --> 00:36:57,674
self security to do your own research.

713
00:36:58,494 --> 00:37:02,454
That's not to say that we're not all super excited when it pumps, but, right?

714
00:37:02,686 --> 00:37:02,936
Yeah.

715
00:37:02,936 --> 00:37:07,006
No, there's a, the price in fiat terms.

716
00:37:07,676 --> 00:37:13,666
As I see it is also like, it's the best thing we have to as a proxy for adoption.

717
00:37:14,416 --> 00:37:18,706
And so it's kind of like, you know, because it's supply demand

718
00:37:18,906 --> 00:37:21,256
and when we see demand, it means.

719
00:37:22,426 --> 00:37:25,556
We're winning in the sense that more people are adopting it.

720
00:37:25,686 --> 00:37:27,626
And that's, what's super exciting about it.

721
00:37:27,896 --> 00:37:32,416
You know, the fact that I'm never going to sell my Bitcoin does make some

722
00:37:32,416 --> 00:37:34,626
of those questions at the beginning, a little more challenging, like,

723
00:37:34,626 --> 00:37:38,506
well, how am I going to do the nice stuff that I want to do for my life?

724
00:37:39,176 --> 00:37:42,586
The family that I don't currently have and like, you know, whatever else

725
00:37:42,586 --> 00:37:46,336
down the road or whatever material things I may want or whatever.

726
00:37:46,566 --> 00:37:47,956
And like, we'll figure that out.

727
00:37:47,956 --> 00:37:50,926
But right now, like, that's not the concern.

728
00:37:50,996 --> 00:37:52,876
It's like, let's, let's get there first.

729
00:37:53,386 --> 00:37:56,425
Let me see, you know, Bitcoin 500, 000.

730
00:37:56,426 --> 00:37:59,006
Let me see us at least equal gold.

731
00:37:59,426 --> 00:38:04,046
I think the, the clearest analogy and clearest path for Bitcoin in my mind

732
00:38:04,266 --> 00:38:06,146
and the most constructive narrative.

733
00:38:06,516 --> 00:38:11,076
Going back to what we said about kind of pitting Bitcoin against a fiat currency, I

734
00:38:11,076 --> 00:38:17,916
think that's like really counterproductive and maybe unnecessary, right?

735
00:38:18,316 --> 00:38:22,136
Uh, for Bitcoin to hit 600, 000 in US dollar terms, that's just

736
00:38:22,136 --> 00:38:24,006
the equivalent of gold, right?

737
00:38:24,316 --> 00:38:25,696
In 12 trillion dollars, right?

738
00:38:25,876 --> 00:38:32,896
And so every time in history that a digital successor has gone after an

739
00:38:32,906 --> 00:38:35,516
analog predecessor, it hasn't equaled it.

740
00:38:35,796 --> 00:38:40,936
It's like crushed it, whether you think of like automobiles versus, you

741
00:38:40,936 --> 00:38:45,526
know, like horse and buggies or mobile phones versus rotary phones, this

742
00:38:45,526 --> 00:38:48,476
is Bitcoin verse analog gold, right?

743
00:38:48,716 --> 00:38:52,145
So, okay, let's get to 600, 000 of Bitcoin.

744
00:38:52,466 --> 00:38:52,846
Right?

745
00:38:52,936 --> 00:38:57,546
And then let's see what happens if it goes to 10x that, right?

746
00:38:57,556 --> 00:38:59,056
And we're at 6 million of Bitcoin.

747
00:38:59,326 --> 00:39:01,256
These other things are going to take care of themselves.

748
00:39:01,426 --> 00:39:03,286
We don't need to fight those battles now.

749
00:39:03,466 --> 00:39:05,976
Let's just fight the battle of being a digital gold,

750
00:39:05,976 --> 00:39:07,856
which nobody's threatened by.

751
00:39:08,156 --> 00:39:09,046
Everybody accepts.

752
00:39:09,056 --> 00:39:13,036
No nation state is concerned if you want to be a digital gold.

753
00:39:13,046 --> 00:39:13,636
That's great.

754
00:39:13,976 --> 00:39:17,866
You start talking about taking out their fiat currency, you're going to

755
00:39:17,866 --> 00:39:20,986
get holy hell from that nation state.

756
00:39:21,656 --> 00:39:22,246
Yeah.

757
00:39:22,426 --> 00:39:23,506
be a digital cold.

758
00:39:23,526 --> 00:39:23,736
Yeah.

759
00:39:23,736 --> 00:39:24,076
Yeah.

760
00:39:24,116 --> 00:39:26,186
Gold is just Bitcoin for boomers, isn't it?

761
00:39:26,696 --> 00:39:27,056
Yeah.

762
00:39:27,346 --> 00:39:30,786
So it goes away with that generation.

763
00:39:31,166 --> 00:39:31,926
hundred percent.

764
00:39:32,256 --> 00:39:35,326
Only unlike other technologies and things, we don't have to wait for

765
00:39:35,326 --> 00:39:39,796
that generation to die completely because people can dip a toe, right?

766
00:39:39,996 --> 00:39:42,846
They can do a 1 percent allocation, even though it's like, you know,

767
00:39:42,846 --> 00:39:44,006
they'll call it schmuck insurance.

768
00:39:44,006 --> 00:39:45,686
They'll be like, all right, these kids may be right.

769
00:39:45,896 --> 00:39:47,586
And this is what a lot of my investors do.

770
00:39:47,596 --> 00:39:48,186
You know, these are.

771
00:39:48,661 --> 00:39:52,701
You know, big family offices with many, many hundreds of millions

772
00:39:52,701 --> 00:39:56,891
of dollars and they're like, okay, my son, my grandson, this, that,

773
00:39:56,891 --> 00:39:58,371
whatever, they keep talking about it.

774
00:39:58,371 --> 00:40:01,461
Now it's on CNBC, now the SEC approved it.

775
00:40:01,671 --> 00:40:05,511
It's like, okay, you know what, let's get a few million dollars worth of that

776
00:40:05,511 --> 00:40:10,291
stuff just in case my kid is right, you know, and that's, that's how it starts.

777
00:40:10,828 --> 00:40:11,208
Interesting.

778
00:40:11,428 --> 00:40:13,028
You used the word schmuck there.

779
00:40:13,088 --> 00:40:17,438
I saw Larry David once explain the difference between a schmuck and a prick.

780
00:40:17,808 --> 00:40:23,528
And the difference is that there's no such thing as a rich schmuck, and

781
00:40:23,528 --> 00:40:25,398
there's no such thing as a poor prick.

782
00:40:25,848 --> 00:40:27,198
It's always the other way around.

783
00:40:27,468 --> 00:40:30,318
But I think Bitcoin allows for rich schmucks.

784
00:40:30,498 --> 00:40:31,578
Yes, it does.

785
00:40:31,778 --> 00:40:33,018
And that's liberating.

786
00:40:33,158 --> 00:40:35,088
we should be careful not to become pricks

787
00:40:35,288 --> 00:40:36,058
Exactly,

788
00:40:36,098 --> 00:40:37,248
the fiat price goes

789
00:40:37,458 --> 00:40:39,858
no, have fun staying boar pricks.

790
00:40:39,878 --> 00:40:40,098
Yeah.

791
00:40:40,158 --> 00:40:40,648
Exactly.

792
00:41:19,082 --> 00:41:21,352
So, how are, how are you finding, uh, things, Omid, there?

793
00:41:21,352 --> 00:41:24,622
I know you, you just got in, but, uh, what's your impression of, of,

794
00:41:24,672 --> 00:41:27,812
uh, what's going on so far that you've seen, uh, in the last, I

795
00:41:27,812 --> 00:41:28,962
don't know, 12 hours or something?

796
00:41:29,122 --> 00:41:29,452
Yeah.

797
00:41:29,452 --> 00:41:34,932
So the last, uh, the last couple of years of conferences have been great.

798
00:41:35,022 --> 00:41:36,682
Bitcoiners are always positive.

799
00:41:37,002 --> 00:41:39,842
It's remarkable to me just how positive.

800
00:41:40,167 --> 00:41:44,927
A group of people we are, and it's always fun to be around Bitcoiners, but

801
00:41:44,947 --> 00:41:50,637
I'm really excited for this conference because it's the first one we've had

802
00:41:50,637 --> 00:41:52,667
in a long time where price has been up.

803
00:41:53,092 --> 00:41:58,102
And so it does, it does feel good and it doesn't necessarily feel good

804
00:41:58,112 --> 00:42:00,372
because people are like, Oh, cool.

805
00:42:00,442 --> 00:42:02,712
I'm wealthier now on paper.

806
00:42:02,972 --> 00:42:06,142
It feels good because we talk to the people we love.

807
00:42:06,162 --> 00:42:10,062
We tell them about Bitcoin, your aunt, your uncle, your brothers,

808
00:42:10,062 --> 00:42:11,652
your sisters, your friends.

809
00:42:11,997 --> 00:42:16,407
You know, have bought Bitcoin because you've told them to buy Bitcoin and

810
00:42:16,407 --> 00:42:18,767
now, you know, they're in profit.

811
00:42:18,787 --> 00:42:20,427
So we're like, okay, good.

812
00:42:20,447 --> 00:42:22,927
It's working out for the people that I love, right?

813
00:42:23,157 --> 00:42:25,337
So people are in an extra good mood.

814
00:42:25,567 --> 00:42:27,557
Everybody's smiling, hugging people.

815
00:42:27,707 --> 00:42:29,977
Everybody's happy to see one another.

816
00:42:30,217 --> 00:42:32,207
And it's just, it's a, it's a great feeling.

817
00:42:32,207 --> 00:42:35,417
And, you know, as my friend Jared says, we deserve this.

818
00:42:35,781 --> 00:42:39,771
Yeah, yeah, that's the feeling I had last night at that reception.

819
00:42:39,771 --> 00:42:44,191
It's like, these are all my favorite people in the world in the same room.

820
00:42:44,241 --> 00:42:49,651
It's just fantastic, mind blowing to be in, among such a group of people.

821
00:42:49,651 --> 00:42:52,111
It's just, and I think everyone feels the same way.

822
00:42:52,251 --> 00:42:55,881
Everyone, you see, everyone is almost and Tears because of

823
00:42:55,881 --> 00:42:57,781
how beautiful the, the group

824
00:42:57,971 --> 00:43:00,411
Well, Bitcoin is a truth network, you know, and so

825
00:43:00,411 --> 00:43:02,451
you've got advocates of truth.

826
00:43:02,956 --> 00:43:06,386
And when advocates of truth find other advocates of truth,

827
00:43:06,686 --> 00:43:09,266
it's a warm embrace, right?

828
00:43:09,336 --> 00:43:12,896
Like it's just, you know, everybody's kind of on the side

829
00:43:12,896 --> 00:43:15,016
of honesty and fairness and good.

830
00:43:15,336 --> 00:43:17,506
And it's a, it's a nice group of people to be around.

831
00:43:17,631 --> 00:43:18,021
Yeah.

832
00:43:18,021 --> 00:43:22,921
And I, I think the, the further we go into them, the more Bitcoin only oriented

833
00:43:22,931 --> 00:43:27,321
these conference become, the more we've weeded out the bad seeds and we're with,

834
00:43:27,351 --> 00:43:32,241
it's, it's like you've boiled down this wonderful beef stock that's, it's just,

835
00:43:32,296 --> 00:43:34,176
What do you mean as who, who are we, what do you mean?

836
00:43:34,176 --> 00:43:35,756
Like shit coiners and stuff like that?

837
00:43:35,756 --> 00:43:35,946
Or

838
00:43:35,971 --> 00:43:36,591
and stuff like that.

839
00:43:36,591 --> 00:43:40,101
They're like, if you go back five years, there were a lot more shit corners at

840
00:43:40,156 --> 00:43:45,306
there were, but, but I, I'm a, I'm of the belief that there are no

841
00:43:45,666 --> 00:43:50,596
bad holders of Bitcoin and there are no wrong ways to hold Bitcoin.

842
00:43:50,906 --> 00:43:53,086
I am a, I'm a freedom maximalist.

843
00:43:53,441 --> 00:43:57,561
And if someone wants to hold, you know, some Bitcoin and a bunch of

844
00:43:57,561 --> 00:44:00,301
shit coins and a bunch of stocks and a bunch of real estate and a

845
00:44:00,301 --> 00:44:02,601
bunch of fiat currency, awesome.

846
00:44:03,331 --> 00:44:06,371
It's better than them doing that and not holding Bitcoin.

847
00:44:06,622 --> 00:44:07,891
good for Bitcoin

848
00:44:08,071 --> 00:44:08,611
type of thing.

849
00:44:08,831 --> 00:44:09,041
Yeah.

850
00:44:09,301 --> 00:44:14,111
but also like, you know, I just, um, it's, it's always been something that's been a

851
00:44:14,111 --> 00:44:19,411
little perplexing to me is how Bitcoiners can be such advocates of freedom, but then

852
00:44:19,411 --> 00:44:21,661
also want to dictate how people should

853
00:44:21,731 --> 00:44:25,631
Oh yeah, no, no, no, no, I'm not saying we want to do that, dictate

854
00:44:25,631 --> 00:44:27,071
how anyone else should live.

855
00:44:27,511 --> 00:44:31,791
But I'm, yeah, from just the quality of event type perspective,

856
00:44:32,111 --> 00:44:32,516
It's great.

857
00:44:32,691 --> 00:44:37,076
It's great to be around like minded people who are All happy and cheerful,

858
00:44:37,386 --> 00:44:41,636
but I, I do see a lot on X, not, not at all from you, just like in general

859
00:44:41,646 --> 00:44:46,996
from, you know, a lot of, uh, this, this toxicity of the maximalists, you

860
00:44:46,996 --> 00:44:53,086
know, whether it's ETF related or, you know, all of these institutions,

861
00:44:53,176 --> 00:44:57,906
all of these different holders of some kind, they do bring something of value

862
00:44:57,906 --> 00:45:01,756
to Bitcoin and we know that Bitcoin brings tremendous value to them.

863
00:45:02,181 --> 00:45:05,801
And I think, you know, in my mind, it's all holders are welcome.

864
00:45:06,271 --> 00:45:09,891
You know, if Putin wants to hold Bitcoin, man, awesome, dude.

865
00:45:10,441 --> 00:45:12,211
Like, you know, hold the Bitcoin.

866
00:45:12,521 --> 00:45:14,141
There's, there are no bad holders.

867
00:45:14,341 --> 00:45:18,651
no, more importantly, that's not up to any one of us, and that's By design,

868
00:45:18,751 --> 00:45:20,301
that's the beauty of the system.

869
00:45:20,541 --> 00:45:22,691
But the other beauty of it is they have no more influence.

870
00:45:23,141 --> 00:45:23,481
Right?

871
00:45:23,481 --> 00:45:24,291
Like it's, yeah.

872
00:45:24,311 --> 00:45:28,551
Sailor, sailor with all his Bitcoin, you know, by virtue of

873
00:45:28,551 --> 00:45:31,621
holding the Bitcoin has no more influence, which is thing of beauty.

874
00:45:32,876 --> 00:45:35,716
that's not true for the dollar, at all.

875
00:45:35,741 --> 00:45:38,121
At all political influences purchased.

876
00:45:38,938 --> 00:45:41,338
Anyway, like, where can people find you online?

877
00:45:41,348 --> 00:45:44,028
Like, what are you currently working on?

878
00:45:44,048 --> 00:45:45,158
Like, what's anything you

879
00:45:45,233 --> 00:45:45,740
on Twitter

880
00:45:46,033 --> 00:45:47,973
or X or whatever it's called these days.

881
00:45:48,458 --> 00:45:50,628
And I think my Twitter is

882
00:45:51,048 --> 00:45:51,818
Yeah, it's Twitter.

883
00:45:51,918 --> 00:45:52,458
It's Twitter.

884
00:45:52,478 --> 00:45:53,588
Let's be honest, it's Twitter.

885
00:45:53,588 --> 00:45:54,058
Yeah, yeah.

886
00:45:54,278 --> 00:45:57,598
you know, don't want to, whatever Elon wants to call it is fine with

887
00:45:57,683 --> 00:45:57,938
me.

888
00:45:58,278 --> 00:45:58,738
Um,

889
00:45:58,938 --> 00:45:59,658
but what am I?

890
00:45:59,658 --> 00:46:05,218
I'm Eric underscore, uh, BIG fund, Bitcoin and Bitcoin investment group fund.

891
00:46:05,723 --> 00:46:10,373
Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, so it's not just that the fund is big, it's, yeah, okay.

892
00:46:10,723 --> 00:46:13,703
fund is unfortunately not as big as we would like it to be, but it's an

893
00:46:13,703 --> 00:46:15,503
acronym for Bitcoin Investment Group.

894
00:46:15,903 --> 00:46:20,593
Um, yeah, so, and really what I'm just working on is just, you know, education,

895
00:46:20,593 --> 00:46:22,753
explaining to folks that are interested.

896
00:46:23,033 --> 00:46:26,283
Um, I'm no longer explaining to folks that aren't interested.

897
00:46:26,683 --> 00:46:28,703
So that, that's been a big change.

898
00:46:29,033 --> 00:46:33,853
Um, I, I, I wouldn't phrase it in terms of like, I no longer have the time or

899
00:46:33,853 --> 00:46:37,783
patience, but there are enough people that want to know, that are genuinely curious.

900
00:46:38,143 --> 00:46:42,213
And I focus my efforts in those groups as opposed to trying to

901
00:46:42,213 --> 00:46:43,943
convert people who are opposed to it.

902
00:46:44,173 --> 00:46:47,723
And in some way, I'm actually like, content for them not to get it.

903
00:46:48,063 --> 00:46:48,913
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

904
00:46:49,153 --> 00:46:52,413
Let, let them fall into the everyone gets Bitcoin at the price they deserve

905
00:46:52,643 --> 00:46:53,393
exactly.

906
00:46:53,413 --> 00:46:56,873
Like you either take the orange pill now or the orange suppository later.

907
00:46:56,873 --> 00:46:58,233
That's, that's a choice you got.

908
00:46:58,288 --> 00:47:02,148
I so badly wanted to tweet that once and I just, I, I,

909
00:47:02,473 --> 00:47:03,183
Samsung beat

910
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:03,633
me to

911
00:47:03,708 --> 00:47:07,118
I had another version of it and I just thought, I can't do that.

912
00:47:07,148 --> 00:47:08,448
That's a little too off brand.

913
00:47:08,448 --> 00:47:09,118
I just can't do it.

914
00:47:09,218 --> 00:47:10,238
But, but I wanted to.

915
00:47:11,783 --> 00:47:16,303
All right, EEric thank you so much for doing this and great to have you in Europe

916
00:47:16,443 --> 00:47:18,283
and, um, yeah, good luck with everything.

917
00:47:18,368 --> 00:47:18,828
with you guys.

918
00:47:19,552 --> 00:47:21,712
This has been the Freedom Footprint Show, thanks for listening.

919
00:47:21,777 --> 00:47:24,897
Yes, if you can't see Luke, this has been the Freedom Footprint Show.

920
00:47:25,627 --> 00:47:28,847
Press the goddamn like button and, you know, brush your teeth and all that.

921
00:47:28,852 --> 00:47:29,902
Oh yeah, we're keeping that in.

922
00:47:30,442 --> 00:47:30,772
Cheers!

923
00:47:31,222 --> 00:47:31,962
Thanks again, Eric.

924
00:47:32,467 --> 00:47:33,027
do I look?