The Heroes of Bitcoin with Tomer Strolight - FFS #96

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Bitcoin needs to be attacked.

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Every attack that's possible against Bitcoin needs to happen to

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demonstrate to the world that Bitcoin can survive every type of attack

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that can be foisted on Bitcoin.

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I think the idea of being heroic is a very important idea.

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I think everyone should strive to be as heroic as they can be because

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there is a choice here, right?

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To stand with integrity and not sell out and not do something that's a compromise.

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For a short term thing is heroic.

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And I see that in the Bitcoin community.

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Like Heroes look out for the little guy and that's what you see in the

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Bitcoin community, don't tell me there are no heroes in Bitcoin.

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Just be one.

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Tomer, welcome back to the Freedom Footprint Show.

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Oh, yes.

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I've been here before, but it was on zoom.

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So this is

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different.

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This is, this feels like a proper welcome to the Freedom

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And you were chasing a dog or something last time.

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What was that?

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Oh, that's possible.

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I can't remember all the details, but I have a couple of dogs and one who's I've

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had for the last year and a bit as a puppy and is very rambunctious and energetic.

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So I might've been chasing a dog.

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We were just talking about, um, the prices of, of meat here.

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That's in comparison to Canada.

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Like, what's your experience?

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Well, I've eaten one steak here, which was a huge one kilogram steak, like

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two, Over two pounds at a restaurant and cost me include like all in 69 euros.

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That particular steak, if you could get it in a dry aged, you know,

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prime quality, I think it would be over 200 at a restaurant in Toronto.

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It would probably cost a hundred dollars to buy that quality meat

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at a supermarket and cook it yourself, have to cook it yourself,

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let alone get it served.

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I was just shocked at how affordable everything was.

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So I don't know.

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I don't know why it's so affordable in Madeira.

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Uh, but it's cause I, I don't imagine that they have a lot of beef ranching

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here, but it, I was really blown away and the quality of the meat was superb.

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we have a friend that has just been to the Azores where, where

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they have a lot of the cattle

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that, that they, so they import the meat from here to, from there to here, and

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there you can get like, what did he say?

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Like you could get a.

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Uh, dry aged, uh, uh, tomahawk for like eight euros a kilo

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Oh my

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at the butcher's

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like,

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I'm

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moving to the Azores.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's in the middle of literally in the middle of nowhere, um,

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even more middly than, than here.

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Yeah.

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How far from here is it to get there?

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Cause it's, it's also in the North Atlantic,

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Yeah.

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It's pretty far.

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It's like one third of the way over to the Americas

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and, and the Azores are like, they're not really one group of islands, but three

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that are scattered in three different.

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Like they're quite far apart.

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There's a group of islands in the middle, one group there, one group there.

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right.

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It feels like these islands are really interesting places to visit.

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The geography here is stunning.

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I just, I'm looking out the window here and I can see all the hilltop.

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And I was just on a drive to a villa about 15 minutes from here and you see

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all the volcanic formations and what it does to the altitudes, the going

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up and down and the cobblestone roads.

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It's really, it's really quite stunning.

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So see, it's nice to see a place this, this big.

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Beautiful embracing Bitcoin to know that as a Bitcoin or you can

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come somewhere as beautiful as this and that already it's building.

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So keeping the momentum going for Bitcoin here is feels like

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something I'd really get, get into.

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Coincidentally,

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Preston said the same thing that, that it seems like Bitcoin is going towards

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beautiful places and, and there are other places in the world that aren't

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so beautiful and, and all this, right?

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Yeah.

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And he talked about his, his, uh, time in the military when he got to

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see a lot of ugly desert landscapes.

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And now that he's in Bitcoin,

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which is peace

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rather than war.

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It's getting to all these beautiful

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Right.

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Well, this is this is of the places.

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that I've heard of where Bitcoin is kind of taking root in small areas

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like El Salvador or Costa Rica.

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Those are much less developed.

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Those aren't really first world nations over here.

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This is still an island, so it's not the hustle and bustle of a big city,

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there's no skyscrapers, but it is very well developed in very first world.

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There's modern infrastructure for water, there's modern roads, the

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drivers are still, seem to be adapting to the fact that there are lane

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paintings on, on the road, and they

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switch from driving on the sidewalk to driving on the roads, uh, but at

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unusual speeds.

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But it is, um, you know, of all these places, like I think

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my, my own family is not.

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As crazy as I am about Bitcoin.

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And so when I try to take them and talk them into coming to

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Bitcoin centered destinations, they're like, are you kidding?

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We're going to live, we're going to spend some time in a country that's as backwards

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as, you know, as under, underdeveloped as Costa Rica or El Salvador.

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And it's a hard sell.

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Over here, it's not going to be a hard sell at all and

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I've already spoken to my wife about, well, next year, maybe you'll come with

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me for the last day of the conference and stay for a week later and she's,

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that's an idea she can entertain.

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Whereas El Salvador, she does some Googling.

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She says, are you aware that things are really bad there?

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I say, well, they've changed.

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It's still, it's still a hard sell.

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Whereas this, I think is going to be an easy sell, especially if there's

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more opportunities to spend Bitcoin.

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absolutely.

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But, um, still, it's still a part of the EU, even though it's

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counted at an outermost region of the EU and it's semi autonomous,

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but Portuguese territory.

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So it's not.

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It's not this super freedom oriented thing that you can get

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in places like Costa Rica or

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specifically El Salvador, but,

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uh, but I think like whenever you have a group of Bitcoiners in a,

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in a certain location, you get this Metcalfe's law thing going on.

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So like the, the value of that network of Bitcoiners grows exponentially with

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each new member of the network, like.

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all the problems go away, pretty fast when you get to a critical mass of bitcoiners.

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Yeah.

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Well, so I can imagine in a year, maybe two years, if the momentum

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continues to build here, this could be really extraordinary.

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The awareness is, I can see the awareness in the locals is kind of

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very mixed and minimal in some cases, like at the restaurant we were at last

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night, they didn't accept Bitcoin.

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They kind of.

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They laughed when we asked if they accepted Bitcoin, but at other

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places they are accepting Bitcoin.

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So it's kind of, it's, it's interesting.

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yeah, they laughed.

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Yeah, look who's laughing five years down the line, right?

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Yeah.

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You should have accepted, you know, I'm the one who's laughing

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because if you had accepted Bitcoin five years ago, different story.

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Still, when we first started the Freemadero organization, there was

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nothing, no place took bitcoin.

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You know, we started with orange pilling one single cafe.

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And now when you come here and you look at BTC map, or like there's 30

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places or something that accept, and

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it seems to me, and again, I'm, I'm alien to this, but I've, I followed

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the stories as much as I can.

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It seems to me that you, There's some way to get to some

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tipping point with some people.

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If you have a, if you have enough Bitcoin immigrants, if you will, or the people

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who come with Bitcoin and want to spend it and are spending it, and there's

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enough, and there's enough of a push to get merchants to start to accept it,

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you get, you get a few tipping points.

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You get a few merchants who get quite excited about it.

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This is certainly what I hear.

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It's all secondhand for me.

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But this is certainly what I'm hearing about what's happening in

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Costa Rica with Bitcoin Jungle,

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from people who've lived there, and, and people come and people go, right?

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Like, so But if you have the critical mass, you don't feel the departure

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of one person as a terrible loss or one merchant as a terrible loss.

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It's like, okay, well, this, this, people come and people

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go, but people keep coming.

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that's what, that's, what's really interesting to see happening.

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Like, I don't have that where I live in Toronto, there's, There's Bitcoiners,

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but there's not Bitcoin accepting establishments, it's too sprawling a

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city, it's too big, you know, you, you need to find like a neighborhood to, to

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try to make things happen and, and that's just too hard because even the Bitcoiners

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who are there are too geographically spread out in this mega city.

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Yeah, it's hard to get us together.

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But when we are together, magic happens.

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yeah, you get remind, I think when we get together at conferences like this,

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you get reminded of what an extraordinary gift Bitcoin is in terms of bringing

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out in people who they really are.

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You're, you know, they're no longer talking to the guy who

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says, oh, wow, that's crazy.

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Did you catch the game last night?

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You're talking to people who are not just awake and all on the same tune, but

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rather they're each singing their own tune, and it's their own true tune, right?

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It's not, you know, we were just, we were just having drinks with some

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people downstairs, and everyone's, everyone's a different personality,

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or they're not interchangeable.

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It's not like every bitcoiner says the same thing as the other bitcoiner.

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Some are more radical about some ideas, some are more

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radical about different ones.

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Some are more about love, some are about what they hate.

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And they're not all, all about Bitcoin.

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There's many are about health and fitness or diet or philosophy or whatever.

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So Bitcoin is really a flourishing of individualization

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of.

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Of all these really interesting people who respect certain principles,

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one of the principles being that you respect the freedom of other

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people to be who, whoever they are.

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And you don't tell them that they have to be like you.

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If you don't like what they are, you just leave them in peace, right?

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It's like, if there's someone I don't care for, I don't need to change them.

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Whereas I think in the fiat world, there's this, this tremendous pressure

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for everyone You know, on, on each side to convert everybody else and to tell

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everybody else that how they are is evil and wrong and they need to be like this,

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there's this desire for a monoculture, uh,

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you know, a

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yeah.

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homogeneity that everyone, every, every problem will be solved if

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we're all believing exactly the same

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things.

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And that is, that's very anti human

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because I think everyone's, you realize everyone's really individual.

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And when you realize that that's the precious and true nature of, of being

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a human being, that you're not a clone of everybody else, but you're an

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individual and, and your self expression, is the gift of you to others, right?

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It's not, you're not supposed to sacrifice yourself to others

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by pretending to be like them.

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You're supposed to be a gift to others by being yourself.

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And that's the biggest gift you can give to yourself to discover

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who you are and what your gift is to the world and experience that.

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That's the greatest satisfaction.

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It's a greater satisfaction than having a lot of money and buying things that don't

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actually give you satisfaction, right?

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Discovering who you are.

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And I think that, that for me is.

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I mean, that's my message to the, to the Bitcoin world.

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Like Bitcoin will help you be who you are meant to be.

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yeah, it reminds me of one of my favorite David Bowie quotes, which

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is, uh, aging is the process of slowly becoming who you were always meant to

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That's beautiful.

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which I think is true for people who are true to themselves, but

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it's not true for people who never, if you never self reflect.

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The process doesn't happen

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and Bitcoin is self reflection, like

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Yeah,

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uh, it helps you remove the noise, remove all the noise from your life.

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It's not the signal in itself probably, but it removes the noise

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so you can see your own signal more

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00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:18,809
yeah, it breaks away the cobwebs, like the, the fiat world is the,

243
00:12:18,809 --> 00:12:22,619
an antithesis of be yourself, discover who you truly are.

244
00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:22,859
Right.

245
00:12:22,864 --> 00:12:26,099
It, it is, it, it has lines like, oh, the he who has the

246
00:12:26,099 --> 00:12:27,809
most toys when he dies, wins.

247
00:12:27,929 --> 00:12:29,349
yeah, yeah,

248
00:12:29,474 --> 00:12:30,254
focused on money.

249
00:12:30,254 --> 00:12:33,324
It tries to put what's the net worth of people, right?

250
00:12:33,324 --> 00:12:36,414
And like, if you think about it, like, the expression net

251
00:12:36,424 --> 00:12:38,204
worth comes from accounting.

252
00:12:38,204 --> 00:12:41,984
It's like assets minus liabilities, but it has this like, what's

253
00:12:41,994 --> 00:12:44,844
the value net of a person?

254
00:12:44,854 --> 00:12:49,534
And when you measure that in a measure like a currency unit, like

255
00:12:49,744 --> 00:12:51,284
what's the worth of this person?

256
00:12:51,294 --> 00:12:53,644
It's like, you can exchange this person for a million dollars.

257
00:12:53,654 --> 00:12:54,444
The net worth of

258
00:12:54,476 --> 00:12:57,784
Knut Svanholm is a million dollars, so I can get a million dollars and

259
00:12:57,784 --> 00:12:59,734
that's equivalent to Knut Svanholm?

260
00:12:59,734 --> 00:13:03,434
Like no amount of money in the world can replace Knut Svanholm, right?

261
00:13:03,594 --> 00:13:04,814
No amount of money can replace you.

262
00:13:05,004 --> 00:13:10,024
No amount of money, people aren't measured in dollars, and yet that's exactly

263
00:13:10,214 --> 00:13:12,214
what is going on in the world, right?

264
00:13:12,234 --> 00:13:14,534
You type in the name of any celebrity into Google and it

265
00:13:14,534 --> 00:13:16,544
will auto complete net worth,

266
00:13:16,649 --> 00:13:17,349
Yeah, yeah,

267
00:13:17,634 --> 00:13:18,834
how much is this person worth?

268
00:13:18,844 --> 00:13:19,654
That's what people want.

269
00:13:20,364 --> 00:13:31,096
And why are people so all so much for joining me today and

270
00:13:31,096 --> 00:13:39,969
I will see you in the next one.

271
00:13:43,539 --> 00:13:45,369
These are words to think hard about,

272
00:13:45,414 --> 00:13:45,779
right?

273
00:13:46,039 --> 00:13:50,159
And when you start to really think about it, like, what's my worth to me?

274
00:13:50,479 --> 00:13:51,819
Well, it's no amount of money.

275
00:13:51,819 --> 00:13:54,089
I can't cash a check and be worth more to myself.

276
00:13:54,409 --> 00:13:56,539
the word net worth is gross.

277
00:13:57,899 --> 00:13:58,099
Yeah,

278
00:13:58,104 --> 00:13:59,659
then you've got your gross worth.

279
00:14:00,209 --> 00:14:04,769
yeah, and, uh, it's, it's the, the term GDP has the exact same problem.

280
00:14:04,869 --> 00:14:06,609
Like we're measuring with the wrong

281
00:14:06,639 --> 00:14:07,089
wrong things.

282
00:14:07,219 --> 00:14:11,629
We're trying, we're trying, when we try to use Money to measure everything.

283
00:14:11,839 --> 00:14:13,259
We miss all the values of

284
00:14:13,299 --> 00:14:14,669
the things that money can't buy.

285
00:14:14,859 --> 00:14:17,919
not only that, we're using the wrong yardstick to begin with.

286
00:14:18,075 --> 00:14:18,465
Well, yeah.

287
00:14:18,465 --> 00:14:21,095
When you're using bad money to measure it, but I think it's, it's,

288
00:14:21,135 --> 00:14:23,625
it becomes part of the loop, like

289
00:14:24,235 --> 00:14:24,573
yeah,

290
00:14:24,573 --> 00:14:25,733
what I'm on right now.

291
00:14:25,733 --> 00:14:29,663
And I don't want to say this is the central description of it, but it ties

292
00:14:29,663 --> 00:14:33,762
into this and it's like, We have a centralized economy run by a central bank.

293
00:14:33,772 --> 00:14:36,632
They don't have a lot of tools, so they don't manipulate every little

294
00:14:36,642 --> 00:14:41,132
thing in our, in our lives, but they manipulate one very important thing.

295
00:14:41,282 --> 00:14:43,062
And they're very clear about this assumption.

296
00:14:43,082 --> 00:14:47,402
It's like they believe that they improve the economy and therefore

297
00:14:47,402 --> 00:14:51,062
improve the lives of everybody else, which itself may be a fallacy that a

298
00:14:51,062 --> 00:14:54,312
better economy means everybody's life is improved, but they improve the

299
00:14:54,312 --> 00:14:56,292
economy by encouraging consumption.

300
00:14:56,392 --> 00:14:56,512
This

301
00:14:56,517 --> 00:14:57,222
is very clear, right?

302
00:14:57,222 --> 00:14:57,632
There's no.

303
00:14:58,052 --> 00:14:59,002
There's no dispute.

304
00:14:59,002 --> 00:14:59,342
I'm not,

305
00:14:59,387 --> 00:15:00,922
I'm not putting words in anybody's mouth.

306
00:15:01,072 --> 00:15:03,832
If you encourage consumption, then that's good for the economy

307
00:15:03,832 --> 00:15:07,632
because it, because things flow through the economy and the jobs are

308
00:15:07,632 --> 00:15:09,932
created and there's something real.

309
00:15:10,272 --> 00:15:14,012
So on the surface of it, it sounds sensible, but when you actually take

310
00:15:14,012 --> 00:15:18,682
a closer look, it's like, Well, the cost of encouraging consumption is

311
00:15:18,682 --> 00:15:21,632
the destruction of the purchasing power of the currency, right?

312
00:15:21,732 --> 00:15:24,832
So how do we, our tool to encourage consumption is to make the

313
00:15:24,832 --> 00:15:26,712
currency worth less more quickly,

314
00:15:26,942 --> 00:15:27,252
right?

315
00:15:27,362 --> 00:15:30,552
And to stimulate the economy so that people consume now rather than save.

316
00:15:30,762 --> 00:15:34,132
And the consequence of consuming now rather than saving is that no capital

317
00:15:34,132 --> 00:15:37,742
gets produced or less capital gets produced, less capital is saved.

318
00:15:37,962 --> 00:15:40,652
Everything is consumed quickly because the dollar fizzles away.

319
00:15:41,007 --> 00:15:46,167
And, and there's a feedback loop, which is it's, it's not only that you don't

320
00:15:46,177 --> 00:15:50,667
want to save your money, it's eventually the money loses enough value that

321
00:15:50,667 --> 00:15:52,007
you don't want to work for it at all.

322
00:15:52,307 --> 00:15:53,887
And that's what we're confronted with.

323
00:15:53,887 --> 00:15:58,737
It's like in a world where you want to spend your money very quickly.

324
00:15:59,377 --> 00:16:01,107
You don't want to earn it either, right?

325
00:16:01,107 --> 00:16:03,387
Like, and so we have, this is one of the big problems we have

326
00:16:03,387 --> 00:16:06,297
is everyone's blaming the young generation for not wanting to work.

327
00:16:06,297 --> 00:16:08,017
Well, what are they working for?

328
00:16:08,017 --> 00:16:11,587
They're working for money that doesn't buy anything anymore because everything's

329
00:16:11,587 --> 00:16:13,377
been inflated and financialized.

330
00:16:13,812 --> 00:16:18,382
So, what, what I think is missed by the economists who buy into this

331
00:16:18,402 --> 00:16:23,675
is hard money doesn't discourage spending and consumption, it

332
00:16:23,685 --> 00:16:26,705
encourages earning and saving,

333
00:16:26,985 --> 00:16:27,695
and this is a

334
00:16:27,715 --> 00:16:30,455
very important distinction because you, if you have hard money, you

335
00:16:30,455 --> 00:16:34,095
will still spend it on things that you want and need, especially things

336
00:16:34,095 --> 00:16:37,835
that allow you to earn more money and, and save, and save more money.

337
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:43,350
But, if you, if nobody is encouraged to produce, to earn, then there's nothing

338
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:47,060
to consume, alright, and everything becomes this terrible game, and I think

339
00:16:47,060 --> 00:16:52,060
that's where, like, historically we're finding ourselves right now, is, is this

340
00:16:52,090 --> 00:16:55,670
fiat mindset of consumption drives us.

341
00:16:56,070 --> 00:17:00,820
Economic prosperity rather than the incentive to produce valuable things that

342
00:17:00,820 --> 00:17:05,910
people want to spend their hard earned money against has been lost because,

343
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,980
because we sidestepped the fundamentals of what makes for a good economy.

344
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,990
And a good economy is people producing things that other people want and people

345
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:17,750
wanting to produce things because they, they're paid in real money for it so

346
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:19,470
they can get other things that they want.

347
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,170
There's no game that needs to be played to incentivize consumption.

348
00:17:23,420 --> 00:17:25,470
People know what they need to consume.

349
00:17:25,780 --> 00:17:29,240
But when you make it this game and then the marketing layers in and everybody

350
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:32,370
gets worried about what their net worth is, because if you don't have

351
00:17:32,660 --> 00:17:36,790
5 million, well, if you've clued into the inflation thing, you realize by,

352
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,150
Oh, by the time I'm retirement age, I don't have enough money, right?

353
00:17:40,170 --> 00:17:42,740
So you used to think you needed a million dollars and now

354
00:17:42,740 --> 00:17:43,755
it's like a million dollars.

355
00:17:44,105 --> 00:17:45,625
It isn't going to take you very far.

356
00:17:45,820 --> 00:17:48,190
No, uh, how did Angelo describe it?

357
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:53,410
Like, uh, um, a meth addict, uh, you know, digging a hole in his backyard, and

358
00:17:53,410 --> 00:17:55,110
like, look at this big hole that I dug.

359
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,980
Yeah, but did anyone ask you to dig the hole?

360
00:17:57,990 --> 00:18:00,650
Like, but this spending culture

361
00:18:00,970 --> 00:18:03,260
is like a drug, literally like a drug.

362
00:18:03,390 --> 00:18:07,230
Like, you keep on doing, oh, look at these amazing things that,

363
00:18:07,340 --> 00:18:09,050
uh, oh yeah, nobody asked for.

364
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:09,970
Really?

365
00:18:10,195 --> 00:18:10,505
Yeah.

366
00:18:11,065 --> 00:18:14,035
Because they're, they're not fulfilling your discovery of yourself.

367
00:18:14,245 --> 00:18:15,622
They're fulfilling the economist's

368
00:18:15,641 --> 00:18:16,349
desire to

369
00:18:16,427 --> 00:18:18,165
see consumption in the economy.

370
00:18:18,165 --> 00:18:20,920
And once you've fallen for it and you think, oh, I'm Meat consuming is

371
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,120
actually, you know, it's good for me because I now have a brand, the latest

372
00:18:24,130 --> 00:18:25,990
car with the latest widgets and gadgets.

373
00:18:26,170 --> 00:18:28,840
And it's good for the economy because it employs people.

374
00:18:29,020 --> 00:18:31,840
You're missing, you're kind of missing the point of what it means to be

375
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,420
human and, and, and it's because we're measuring everything in GDP,

376
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:37,960
and all, it, Like, I don't want to be specific about the currency.

377
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,710
We assume that the money is the measure of everything, and it is not.

378
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:44,050
We've already discussed that here.

379
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:45,950
Money is not the worth of everything.

380
00:18:46,110 --> 00:18:50,100
Money needs to be a means towards the end, which is the worth of everything.

381
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,760
But when it becomes the end in and of itself, we end up with

382
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:53,740
the world we're living in.

383
00:18:53,740 --> 00:18:57,400
Which I think history will look back on and say, those people went crazy.

384
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:03,810
They were obsessed, manically, With money, rather than with being human beings,

385
00:19:03,810 --> 00:19:07,640
and they gave up their humanity for the pursuit of money, which was easily

386
00:19:07,660 --> 00:19:11,280
producible to begin with, you know, because it was made up out of thin air,

387
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,690
so they were really insane, and they nearly ruined the environment, and they

388
00:19:14,690 --> 00:19:18,200
nearly ruined all of human civilization, and all of knowledge, and they came

389
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,785
this close, Thank God for Bitcoin or,

390
00:19:21,085 --> 00:19:21,215
yeah,

391
00:19:21,235 --> 00:19:23,275
Thank heavens for Bitcoin, however you want to put it.

392
00:19:23,545 --> 00:19:27,165
That came around and, and turned the ship.

393
00:20:21,255 --> 00:20:26,595
this reminds me of Jeff Booth's thoughts about this whole thing that

394
00:20:26,915 --> 00:20:30,635
we don't really crave money, what we crave in the end is love and belonging,

395
00:20:31,365 --> 00:20:37,445
and we, like, Fiat makes us think that the way to, to, to that love and belonging

396
00:20:37,445 --> 00:20:40,305
is through Gucci bags and Lambos.

397
00:20:41,090 --> 00:20:45,250
When it really isn't, we're just missing the point, it's just, it's

398
00:20:45,250 --> 00:20:51,410
just noise, it makes that path to love and belonging harder and, you

399
00:20:51,410 --> 00:20:53,210
know, more difficult to navigate,

400
00:20:53,730 --> 00:20:58,500
uh, and in the end, we all want the same things,

401
00:20:58,575 --> 00:20:58,721
yeah.

402
00:20:58,845 --> 00:21:02,658
Well, I wanna add to that because I, I think you can try to fake your

403
00:21:02,658 --> 00:21:04,158
way to earn love and belonging.

404
00:21:04,158 --> 00:21:06,048
Like I can come here and agree with everything you say.

405
00:21:06,893 --> 00:21:07,593
Even if I don't,

406
00:21:07,803 --> 00:21:08,433
No, you can't.

407
00:21:09,503 --> 00:21:13,233
But I can, I can, you know, and, and again, this is something that many

408
00:21:13,233 --> 00:21:17,653
people do, especially within, within the fiat world, to achieve some

409
00:21:17,653 --> 00:21:19,163
sense of belonging and acceptance.

410
00:21:19,183 --> 00:21:22,013
And it's gotten to the point now where, like, you have to say, you

411
00:21:22,013 --> 00:21:25,628
have to virtue signal, To have some form of acceptance, or you are

412
00:21:25,658 --> 00:21:28,498
ostracized and cancelled, um, in a way.

413
00:21:29,018 --> 00:21:32,128
But when you can actually be your true self, your sincere self, that doesn't

414
00:21:32,128 --> 00:21:33,628
mean everybody in the world will love you.

415
00:21:33,858 --> 00:21:37,298
It means the people who love what you are will love you, right?

416
00:21:37,298 --> 00:21:40,648
And so you don't have to fake your way and pretend to like something

417
00:21:40,648 --> 00:21:42,068
that you don't particularly like.

418
00:21:42,108 --> 00:21:44,778
You can just be yourself, and there are people who will love you for

419
00:21:44,788 --> 00:21:48,383
being who you are, and you will end up Surrounded by people who love you for

420
00:21:48,383 --> 00:21:52,523
who you are, rather than surrounded by people who pretend to love you

421
00:21:52,523 --> 00:21:54,533
for what you pretend to be, right?

422
00:21:54,633 --> 00:21:59,253
And like, it's, it's such a, so I'm not in disagreeing with Jeff, but what I'm saying

423
00:21:59,413 --> 00:22:01,383
is what's so important for everybody.

424
00:22:01,383 --> 00:22:03,993
If you want to find true love and true belonging.

425
00:22:04,218 --> 00:22:05,668
Is to be your true self.

426
00:22:05,708 --> 00:22:09,598
And that is a hard thing to, for people to discover if you've been raised in a

427
00:22:09,598 --> 00:22:13,418
world where you've been indoctrinated with ideas, never thought for yourself,

428
00:22:13,728 --> 00:22:19,618
been told that pursuing fancy toys is the, is the net worth of you, and,

429
00:22:19,648 --> 00:22:22,582
and, and others, so you look at other people and say, he's rich, he's good.

430
00:22:22,763 --> 00:22:23,113
That's good.

431
00:22:23,153 --> 00:22:23,543
Like that.

432
00:22:23,563 --> 00:22:24,723
No, right.

433
00:22:25,593 --> 00:22:29,543
You've drawn some faulty conclusions, but they're so ingrained so many

434
00:22:29,543 --> 00:22:32,943
of these ideas that it's very hard for people to break out.

435
00:22:32,953 --> 00:22:35,763
And I think this to me is like, I'm going to bring Bitcoin into this.

436
00:22:35,993 --> 00:22:40,583
This is not where Bitcoin by holding Bitcoin, you awaken from this, but by

437
00:22:40,593 --> 00:22:45,123
studying Bitcoin, when you hear the story of Bitcoin, it starts to shatter

438
00:22:45,123 --> 00:22:47,133
all these beliefs that you have.

439
00:22:47,753 --> 00:22:52,323
And, and, and when you shatter these old beliefs, That opened the way, right?

440
00:22:52,343 --> 00:22:55,643
Like, you're surrounded by a wall of indoctrination that says governments are

441
00:22:55,643 --> 00:22:57,263
all powerful, they can stop anything.

442
00:22:57,658 --> 00:23:00,528
Scientists have determined what can and can't be done.

443
00:23:00,748 --> 00:23:04,338
Corporations are all powerful and they will acquire and take over anything.

444
00:23:04,350 --> 00:23:08,148
And then you hear the story of Bitcoin and some anonymous person showed up

445
00:23:08,358 --> 00:23:11,248
with a solution to a problem that scientists said could not be solved.

446
00:23:11,328 --> 00:23:14,738
The Byzantine generals problem hadn't been proven to be unsolvable.

447
00:23:14,738 --> 00:23:18,583
Well, He, he shatters that myth by solving the problem, right?

448
00:23:18,693 --> 00:23:21,473
And, and then they say, well, but the government will stop it

449
00:23:21,473 --> 00:23:23,213
because the government is all powerful and can do anything.

450
00:23:23,233 --> 00:23:25,133
Well, then the government can't stop this thing.

451
00:23:25,153 --> 00:23:27,463
The solution to this problem, the scientists said, can't be solved.

452
00:23:27,663 --> 00:23:30,733
Well, corporations will imitate it and compete with it, and corporations

453
00:23:30,753 --> 00:23:32,093
try and they can't compete with it.

454
00:23:32,233 --> 00:23:36,163
And so, in, and, and, and then, and don't forget, we're all selfish,

455
00:23:36,163 --> 00:23:39,103
greedy people who do things only for money, power, and fame.

456
00:23:39,313 --> 00:23:40,983
And Satoshi didn't do it for the money.

457
00:23:41,593 --> 00:23:42,493
He didn't keep the money.

458
00:23:42,493 --> 00:23:43,923
He didn't do it for the fame.

459
00:23:43,923 --> 00:23:44,853
We don't know who he is.

460
00:23:45,543 --> 00:23:45,813
And

461
00:23:46,503 --> 00:23:51,463
Let me interrupt you there because that is likely but it's not provable.

462
00:23:51,943 --> 00:23:53,713
He might have done it for the money

463
00:23:54,143 --> 00:23:54,823
Well, he's,

464
00:23:54,923 --> 00:23:55,733
You don't know.

465
00:23:55,773 --> 00:23:56,833
he hasn't spent any of the

466
00:23:56,958 --> 00:23:57,863
money yet, right?

467
00:23:58,043 --> 00:24:01,203
hands that for sure if he is now just waiting for the

468
00:24:01,203 --> 00:24:02,793
right point to sell but You

469
00:24:02,903 --> 00:24:04,973
So you think Satoshi's going to show up and buy a fleet of

470
00:24:05,088 --> 00:24:05,953
Lamborghinis and be fiat?

471
00:24:06,193 --> 00:24:10,113
okay, this, this is, I, I love this because I think this is where you and

472
00:24:10,113 --> 00:24:14,693
I are slightly different, to, to our audience who don't know my history with

473
00:24:14,713 --> 00:24:16,953
Tomer, uh, or our history together.

474
00:24:16,963 --> 00:24:20,943
Sometimes people mistake us for the same person, like they call you Knut,

475
00:24:20,943 --> 00:24:22,413
and we, yeah, we both wear hats.

476
00:24:22,483 --> 00:24:24,433
We have, now I have this beard,

477
00:24:24,438 --> 00:24:25,858
have a bigger beard now, but we,

478
00:24:26,528 --> 00:24:28,708
And you both have slightly funny names, slightly.

479
00:24:28,938 --> 00:24:29,908
we have odd names.

480
00:24:30,208 --> 00:24:30,548
So,

481
00:24:30,758 --> 00:24:31,368
Yeah, so

482
00:24:31,488 --> 00:24:32,758
so we're clearly the same person,

483
00:24:32,973 --> 00:24:34,803
yeah, we're very close to it, yeah.

484
00:24:35,563 --> 00:24:40,503
So I think, like, you often talk about Satoshi and Satoshi's sacrifice, and

485
00:24:40,513 --> 00:24:45,513
I love that story and that way of looking at it, that disappearing was

486
00:24:45,543 --> 00:24:48,883
this huge altruistic move that, but

487
00:24:48,893 --> 00:24:51,453
you're using words that I wouldn't necessarily describe, but I,

488
00:24:51,513 --> 00:24:53,983
because I, I'm not saying he was selfless.

489
00:24:54,758 --> 00:24:56,948
I'm saying he did it for a different reason

490
00:24:57,278 --> 00:24:57,998
than money.

491
00:24:58,058 --> 00:24:59,768
He did it for a different reason than power.

492
00:24:59,768 --> 00:25:01,538
He did it for a different reason than fame.

493
00:25:01,988 --> 00:25:02,438
He did.

494
00:25:02,648 --> 00:25:07,868
He did it because he believed in creating decentralized money for the whole world

495
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:12,179
And I'm saying that is plausible, but you cannot absolutely

496
00:25:12,179 --> 00:25:13,419
be sure that that is true.

497
00:25:13,419 --> 00:25:15,619
He might've been hit by the bus just after,

498
00:25:16,009 --> 00:25:24,189
like, so, so, and, and I see a danger in painting, uh, uh, in, in hero fying,

499
00:25:24,399 --> 00:25:27,759
uh, a human being instead of an idea.

500
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,599
So if you paint Satoshi as this messianic hero

501
00:25:31,914 --> 00:25:32,274
Alright.

502
00:25:32,364 --> 00:25:32,484
Yeah.

503
00:25:32,484 --> 00:25:32,634
We're

504
00:25:32,641 --> 00:25:33,594
gonna have a good argument

505
00:25:33,809 --> 00:25:35,599
then as soon as you do that

506
00:25:36,044 --> 00:25:40,634
That's when you get this, uh, well, some people think it's a good

507
00:25:40,634 --> 00:25:42,114
thing that they call us a cult.

508
00:25:42,584 --> 00:25:43,944
I think there's danger there.

509
00:25:44,034 --> 00:25:47,604
I think there's danger in, in, you know, putting someone up on

510
00:25:47,604 --> 00:25:51,604
a pedestal, regardless of how insanely good their idea was.

511
00:25:51,919 --> 00:25:53,634
I, I, I wrote an article by the.

512
00:25:54,344 --> 00:25:57,814
Uh, about this call, don't tell me there are no heroes in Bitcoin, right?

513
00:25:57,854 --> 00:26:00,394
And because people said there are, there are no heroes in

514
00:26:00,394 --> 00:26:02,004
Bitcoin, slayer, slayer heroes.

515
00:26:02,464 --> 00:26:06,844
And I think the idea of being heroic is a very important idea.

516
00:26:07,184 --> 00:26:12,614
And, and, and I think everyone should strive to be as heroic as they can be

517
00:26:12,934 --> 00:26:14,624
because there is a choice here, right?

518
00:26:14,624 --> 00:26:19,174
To stand with integrity and not sell out and not do something

519
00:26:19,374 --> 00:26:20,684
that, that's a compromise.

520
00:26:21,579 --> 00:26:23,369
For a short term thing is heroic.

521
00:26:23,369 --> 00:26:26,039
And I see that in the Bitcoin community.

522
00:26:26,059 --> 00:26:28,859
Like in this article, I talk about how, first of all, heroes look out

523
00:26:28,859 --> 00:26:31,729
for the little guy and that's what you see in the Bitcoin community, right?

524
00:26:31,819 --> 00:26:36,189
We're looking out for people to prevent them from getting scammed by crypto,

525
00:26:36,219 --> 00:26:37,659
shit coins, all this kind of thing.

526
00:26:37,829 --> 00:26:42,059
The dollar itself, the Fiat currency, we're helping people to awaken.

527
00:26:42,059 --> 00:26:43,259
And that's a heroic thing.

528
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:47,499
You're, you're giving up your time, not in exchange for getting paid.

529
00:26:47,674 --> 00:26:50,704
But for doing what's right for other, for other people, you can call that

530
00:26:50,704 --> 00:26:53,294
altruistic, whatever it is, it's heroic.

531
00:26:53,294 --> 00:26:57,124
And I write in that article about what people went through through the

532
00:26:57,124 --> 00:27:00,484
block size wars because I thought that was people stepping up and having the

533
00:27:00,484 --> 00:27:03,914
integrity to challenge the corporations who thought they were all powerful

534
00:27:03,914 --> 00:27:05,469
and show them No, they weren't.

535
00:27:05,649 --> 00:27:08,769
And then I finish off with, and we have the greatest hero of all in

536
00:27:08,769 --> 00:27:12,639
our, in our midst, Satoshi Nakamoto, someone who did all these things that

537
00:27:12,639 --> 00:27:14,359
I just listed off a few minutes ago.

538
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,499
So I won't necessarily repeat them.

539
00:27:16,769 --> 00:27:21,469
And, and it was this heroic action and it, it also like, On top of it, it

540
00:27:21,469 --> 00:27:28,289
layers into the superhero story, like the masked, you know, the masked vigilante

541
00:27:28,336 --> 00:27:32,809
who comes in and you don't know his true identity, he's not doing it for

542
00:27:32,829 --> 00:27:36,269
fame, he's not doing it for power, he's doing it for the sake of doing

543
00:27:36,269 --> 00:27:40,829
the good thing that he created, and so I'm not saying he wasn't Selfish in his

544
00:27:40,829 --> 00:27:45,519
pursuit, he wanted, as his expression of his true self, to realize the

545
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:47,149
ability that he could create this thing.

546
00:27:47,299 --> 00:27:51,189
And to create this thing meant not to do it for the money, the power, or the fame.

547
00:27:51,189 --> 00:27:53,959
Because the whole idea of it was totally decentralized money.

548
00:27:53,979 --> 00:27:57,479
So he knew, in its creation, that he had to hide his identity, and

549
00:27:57,479 --> 00:28:01,509
that he would likely have to vanish at some point, and so he did.

550
00:28:01,875 --> 00:28:05,195
So I agree with almost all of that.

551
00:28:05,205 --> 00:28:08,255
So I think there are plenty of heroes in Bitcoin.

552
00:28:08,355 --> 00:28:13,345
Luke is one, you're one, like almost everyone here is one, like,

553
00:28:13,490 --> 00:28:14,900
finished my essay by saying, don't

554
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:15,540
tell me there are no

555
00:28:15,543 --> 00:28:16,440
heroes in Bitcoin.

556
00:28:16,490 --> 00:28:17,020
Just be

557
00:28:17,123 --> 00:28:17,320
one.

558
00:28:17,555 --> 00:28:19,545
and absolutely Satoshi is one.

559
00:28:20,015 --> 00:28:24,355
It's just this thing with Satoshi disappearing, that seems.

560
00:28:24,820 --> 00:28:28,690
Very much like the ultimate sacrifice, the ultimate heroic act.

561
00:28:28,750 --> 00:28:33,860
And I somewhat hope that it was, but I cannot prove that it

562
00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:35,520
was, it might just have been a

563
00:28:35,940 --> 00:28:37,300
This is why you have no faith.

564
00:28:37,765 --> 00:28:38,475
No, I don't.

565
00:28:38,505 --> 00:28:39,865
Not, not in this sense.

566
00:28:39,895 --> 00:28:41,485
I, I, I, I choose

567
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:42,620
I'm sorry for you.

568
00:28:42,925 --> 00:28:47,105
And the thing is, I, if I didn't have this personality trait of being

569
00:28:47,105 --> 00:28:52,495
this skeptic, wait, but why person, I wouldn't have found Bitcoin because

570
00:28:52,495 --> 00:28:54,035
it's the don't trust verify that

571
00:28:54,504 --> 00:28:54,965
intrigued

572
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:55,338
surrender.

573
00:28:55,470 --> 00:28:57,460
Now that you found it, you can surrender and accept that

574
00:28:57,535 --> 00:28:58,105
Yes.

575
00:28:58,105 --> 00:29:00,645
But I'm not the surrendering kind, sorry.

576
00:29:01,870 --> 00:29:02,930
You can just accept

577
00:30:19,772 --> 00:30:22,856
So speaking of heroes in Bitcoin, like to take this in

578
00:30:22,856 --> 00:30:24,176
a slightly different direction,

579
00:30:24,713 --> 00:30:26,293
You fought in the block size wars.

580
00:30:26,703 --> 00:30:28,203
Yes, you fought bravely.

581
00:30:28,803 --> 00:30:30,103
You were at the front lines.

582
00:30:30,663 --> 00:30:31,493
Banner in hand.

583
00:30:31,818 --> 00:30:32,318
yes,

584
00:30:32,963 --> 00:30:37,883
And now, are we in a a block size wars?

585
00:30:38,113 --> 00:30:39,053
Block space wars?

586
00:30:39,113 --> 00:30:40,513
Are we now in the block space wars?

587
00:30:40,523 --> 00:30:41,923
The clone wars, if you will.

588
00:30:42,598 --> 00:30:42,938
Right.

589
00:30:43,013 --> 00:30:45,043
the JPEG clone wars.

590
00:30:45,208 --> 00:30:47,738
is a different, so if you're, if you're referring to like the

591
00:30:47,738 --> 00:30:52,548
ordinals and inscriptions phenomenon, it's a, it's a different thing.

592
00:30:52,548 --> 00:30:53,938
Like one of the.

593
00:30:54,603 --> 00:30:56,633
No two wars are the same, right?

594
00:30:56,633 --> 00:31:01,743
And this felt, this initially felt like, Oh, this could be the block space wars.

595
00:31:01,753 --> 00:31:06,173
That there, there'll be the filtering versus the non filtering or the soft

596
00:31:06,173 --> 00:31:11,463
fork to prevent, but it, it's too early to tell exactly what it is.

597
00:31:11,483 --> 00:31:16,513
The one thing, the one big takeaway that I have from this is that this is not

598
00:31:16,513 --> 00:31:20,113
going to sound very profound, but when I elaborate, it'll be a bit of an insight.

599
00:31:20,113 --> 00:31:21,983
It's like, it's very hard to change Bitcoin.

600
00:31:22,523 --> 00:31:25,543
So the, the side that has.

601
00:31:26,218 --> 00:31:29,708
And it's, it's hard to change the policy.

602
00:31:29,728 --> 00:31:31,678
It's harder to impose a soft fork.

603
00:31:31,968 --> 00:31:35,868
It's hard to the point of nearly impossibility to impose

604
00:31:35,888 --> 00:31:37,188
a hard fork, a hard fork.

605
00:31:37,208 --> 00:31:38,088
Everyone has to upgrade.

606
00:31:38,088 --> 00:31:42,238
And anyone, anyone who doesn't upgrade doesn't, doesn't, doesn't move forward.

607
00:31:42,488 --> 00:31:42,828
So.

608
00:31:43,853 --> 00:31:45,713
Changing Bitcoin is really, really hard.

609
00:31:45,713 --> 00:31:49,443
And whichever side is on the side of trying to make changes versus leave

610
00:31:49,443 --> 00:31:53,043
it exactly the same is at a strategic disadvantage in the war, right?

611
00:31:53,093 --> 00:31:54,553
Like they need, they need to get everybody

612
00:31:54,613 --> 00:31:57,683
There's always a case for conservatism in Bitcoin.

613
00:31:57,683 --> 00:31:57,753
Yeah.

614
00:31:57,793 --> 00:31:58,293
always, yeah.

615
00:31:58,293 --> 00:31:58,663
Right.

616
00:31:58,753 --> 00:32:03,363
So, so what we're seeing with the inscription ordinal thing

617
00:32:03,363 --> 00:32:05,343
is like Bitcoin as it is.

618
00:32:05,638 --> 00:32:07,558
is permissive of, of these things, right?

619
00:32:07,568 --> 00:32:09,338
They, they fall within the rules.

620
00:32:09,338 --> 00:32:14,956
And, and so the Bitcoin conservatives, if you will, like, you know, some people will

621
00:32:14,956 --> 00:32:18,126
label themselves Bitcoin conservatives on the grounds that it should only be

622
00:32:18,136 --> 00:32:23,626
monetary solute uses, but they're actually the ones who are trying to change Bitcoin

623
00:32:23,876 --> 00:32:25,616
to make it so that it's only monetary

624
00:32:25,771 --> 00:32:29,641
yeah, I mean conservative in terms of, uh, when I, when I use the word,

625
00:32:29,641 --> 00:32:31,515
I mean it in terms of not changing.

626
00:32:32,061 --> 00:32:36,139
So, so it's funny, like the, the, the inscribers are the conservatives in

627
00:32:36,139 --> 00:32:40,879
this particular battle, whereas the progressives are the traditional, you

628
00:32:40,879 --> 00:32:46,599
know, the traditional progressives versus the innovative, um, conservatives.

629
00:32:47,059 --> 00:32:50,839
And so that's what's making this a, a unique kind of battle.

630
00:32:51,299 --> 00:32:56,059
And, and the inscriptions themselves, while at first they seemed like,

631
00:32:56,059 --> 00:32:59,359
oh my god, they're going to make it too expensive to use bitcoin,

632
00:32:59,369 --> 00:33:01,589
they're really slowing it down, it's an attack, the government

633
00:33:01,589 --> 00:33:02,889
can do it, all this kind of stuff.

634
00:33:03,269 --> 00:33:07,079
It's like, well, okay, it seems like it's something that comes and goes, like,

635
00:33:07,449 --> 00:33:09,779
like a seasonal flu or something, so

636
00:33:09,969 --> 00:33:12,309
it's a it's an inconvenience, but it's not a fatal, you know.

637
00:33:12,649 --> 00:33:13,919
It's not a fatal infection.

638
00:33:13,929 --> 00:33:16,709
And so I think that there's a lot of people who aren't prepared to

639
00:33:16,709 --> 00:33:19,369
fight a war against COVID, right?

640
00:33:19,369 --> 00:33:22,699
And like, if that's what it is, who aren't prepared to fight a war against it.

641
00:33:22,699 --> 00:33:25,489
There are people who think that it's very important to fight a war against it.

642
00:33:25,739 --> 00:33:29,039
There are people who are taking advantage and seeing how far they

643
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:32,049
can get away, how far away they can get with, with, with these things.

644
00:33:32,069 --> 00:33:33,849
Like, I think these things are scams.

645
00:33:34,419 --> 00:33:36,769
I appreciate that they're also spam.

646
00:33:37,529 --> 00:33:41,119
And I don't know that there's anything that can really be

647
00:33:41,119 --> 00:33:43,019
done about it other than.

648
00:33:43,899 --> 00:33:45,579
To educate people that these things are scam.

649
00:33:45,579 --> 00:33:46,749
Like get out there, be a hero.

650
00:33:46,749 --> 00:33:52,099
Tell people to be careful and, and that will reduce the demand for these things

651
00:33:52,099 --> 00:33:56,509
and it'll reduce the amount of people who use them benefiting the whole environment.

652
00:33:56,509 --> 00:33:59,929
And it'll reduce the amount of people who get hurt by them benefiting the

653
00:33:59,929 --> 00:34:04,489
individuals who are naively being tricked into buying things that aren't real.

654
00:34:04,879 --> 00:34:10,319
Yeah, the way we try to, but the narrative we're trying to push here is like,

655
00:34:10,699 --> 00:34:14,439
if you're gonna be a miner, make sure you're a miner, not just a hash salesman.

656
00:34:14,599 --> 00:34:15,229
Yes.

657
00:34:15,709 --> 00:34:17,439
so, so that you know what you're mining,

658
00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:21,139
right, and it's hard, it's very hard to be a miner, not a hash salesman, right?

659
00:34:21,139 --> 00:34:24,059
Like, because there's only one pool that'll even give you a choice

660
00:34:24,233 --> 00:34:26,303
so Ocean's the only one that allows you to choose.

661
00:34:26,523 --> 00:34:29,613
And, and when we finally get Stratum v2 in a

662
00:34:29,703 --> 00:34:34,423
number of different places, then, then the choice to become a hero as a miner, right?

663
00:34:34,433 --> 00:34:37,858
Like, if you've got a mining machine, You can actually become a miner, right?

664
00:34:37,858 --> 00:34:38,108
Now you're

665
00:34:38,115 --> 00:34:39,318
just a hasher, right?

666
00:34:39,558 --> 00:34:43,658
And, and so I think that'll be a real test to see.

667
00:34:43,998 --> 00:34:46,948
But this, this is gonna be, this is not a war.

668
00:34:47,068 --> 00:34:50,668
Like, I don't see this as, like, I, and I'll be the first to admit when

669
00:34:50,668 --> 00:34:53,418
I first started seeing this thing and it got up and I'm like, Oh,

670
00:34:53,418 --> 00:34:54,888
we're, we're gonna have another war.

671
00:34:54,888 --> 00:34:56,868
This will be the block space war as opposed to the block,

672
00:34:57,198 --> 00:34:59,408
Because the block space war size we've limited to

673
00:34:59,408 --> 00:35:03,564
four, four, uh, megabytes of virtual size.

674
00:35:03,754 --> 00:35:04,794
That's not changing though.

675
00:35:04,814 --> 00:35:09,114
That war is over, but the fight over the space of what fits it, like what

676
00:35:09,114 --> 00:35:13,074
goes in the block space is, is going to be a battle, but I think it's going

677
00:35:13,074 --> 00:35:14,614
to play out differently than a war.

678
00:35:14,834 --> 00:35:16,504
I think it, I think this is going to

679
00:35:16,816 --> 00:35:17,386
be a much,

680
00:35:17,404 --> 00:35:19,204
slower evolution.

681
00:35:19,594 --> 00:35:22,934
Um, I don't think we're going to see any soft forks to prevent.

682
00:35:23,339 --> 00:35:29,219
The inscriptions, I think it's, it's a battle of, um, like time will

683
00:35:29,229 --> 00:35:31,039
make a lot of these things go away,

684
00:35:31,129 --> 00:35:32,199
but it could get worse.

685
00:35:32,229 --> 00:35:32,679
before it

686
00:35:32,721 --> 00:35:33,409
gets better.

687
00:35:33,749 --> 00:35:34,859
it's a war of attrition.

688
00:35:35,129 --> 00:35:35,916
a war of Attrition

689
00:35:35,979 --> 00:35:37,169
might be, yeah, like, I

690
00:35:37,236 --> 00:35:42,089
think eventually, because it, it really is just shit coins on Bitcoin, right?

691
00:35:42,089 --> 00:35:43,349
And shit NFTs on Bitcoin.

692
00:35:43,659 --> 00:35:45,259
And, and that's the new flavor.

693
00:35:45,259 --> 00:35:46,339
That's the new narrative.

694
00:35:46,639 --> 00:35:50,849
But the fate of shitcoins ultimately is that they have very little volume,

695
00:35:50,989 --> 00:35:52,759
they have very little value, they have

696
00:35:52,771 --> 00:35:57,619
no value, but people are, people are misled to it and, and so they end up

697
00:35:57,619 --> 00:36:00,399
with very little volume and I think that's what we'll ultimately see.

698
00:36:00,569 --> 00:36:03,489
We'll see some ugly moments that are really scary, there'll be some new

699
00:36:03,779 --> 00:36:07,619
coin that, you know, someone mints on bitcoin and, and it looks like it's

700
00:36:07,619 --> 00:36:11,049
gonna really clog the network and the people behind it are gonna celebrate

701
00:36:11,049 --> 00:36:12,289
and they think they're gonna get rich.

702
00:36:13,659 --> 00:36:17,389
Then people will realize it has no value, that something else new will come along.

703
00:36:17,579 --> 00:36:19,559
And that's what happens to all of these altcoins, right?

704
00:36:19,609 --> 00:36:24,049
It's like, it's the shiny new thing until the next shiny new thing comes

705
00:36:24,049 --> 00:36:25,859
in, and then it gets forgotten about.

706
00:36:26,089 --> 00:36:29,659
And eventually people realize, oh, all these shiny new things

707
00:36:29,659 --> 00:36:31,099
turned out to be worthless.

708
00:36:31,099 --> 00:36:34,219
And that thing that I was told to keep an eye off of.

709
00:36:35,574 --> 00:36:36,534
It turned out to be the value.

710
00:36:36,534 --> 00:36:39,494
It's like in the story of the cave of wonders in the Latin,

711
00:36:39,714 --> 00:36:40,424
you know, you're

712
00:36:40,529 --> 00:36:43,114
supposed to go into the cave and there's all these jewels, all these shiny things.

713
00:36:43,114 --> 00:36:45,854
But if you touch any of them, the cave swallows you and destroys you.

714
00:36:46,054 --> 00:36:50,274
But there is this one crusty old lamp, you know, brass lamp in the end.

715
00:36:50,274 --> 00:36:51,994
And that's what the only thing you need to bring out.

716
00:36:52,014 --> 00:36:54,574
Cause it contains the genie that will grant you wishes.

717
00:36:54,754 --> 00:36:55,244
That's a Bitcoin.

718
00:36:55,614 --> 00:36:57,094
in the world of crypto, right?

719
00:36:57,234 --> 00:36:59,304
Like all these cryptos promise everything.

720
00:36:59,304 --> 00:37:02,314
They're bejeweled, they're dazzling, they're shiny, they're glittery.

721
00:37:02,499 --> 00:37:05,909
But you touch them and they destroy you, and the cave of wonder swallows you.

722
00:37:06,099 --> 00:37:11,009
And only if you go to the very end and take that one true thing, the, the, the

723
00:37:11,589 --> 00:37:16,039
real treasure, the hidden treasure here, that looks less sexy, but contains the

724
00:37:16,039 --> 00:37:18,179
real value, is, is what ends up happening.

725
00:37:18,349 --> 00:37:20,569
So I think this is just another path to discovering it.

726
00:37:20,809 --> 00:37:24,964
Bitcoin, maybe the last point I'll make is, People get upset when Bitcoin

727
00:37:24,974 --> 00:37:30,014
gets attacked, and I'd encourage them to take a different view.

728
00:37:31,044 --> 00:37:32,154
Bitcoin needs to be attacked.

729
00:37:32,194 --> 00:37:35,684
Every attack that's possible against Bitcoin needs to happen to

730
00:37:35,684 --> 00:37:38,464
demonstrate to the world that Bitcoin can survive every type of attack

731
00:37:38,674 --> 00:37:41,114
that can be foisted on Bitcoin.

732
00:37:41,304 --> 00:37:46,484
So it has to go through this, these growing pains, and every exploit

733
00:37:46,484 --> 00:37:49,464
and everything needs to, needs to be thrown at it so that the world

734
00:37:49,464 --> 00:37:51,214
can see that it, it can survive it.

735
00:37:51,214 --> 00:37:51,374
So.

736
00:37:51,739 --> 00:37:55,299
It's tough to live through these things, but you only show your strength

737
00:37:55,449 --> 00:37:56,589
when that strength is challenged.

738
00:37:56,589 --> 00:38:01,079
You can walk around saying, I'm indestructible, I'm anti fragile, show me,

739
00:38:01,159 --> 00:38:03,619
but only through proof do you demonstrate.

740
00:38:03,619 --> 00:38:07,349
And so, these forms of things, which are attacks of sorts on Bitcoin's core

741
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:11,674
proposition, Need to be attempted, and they need to be demonstrated as

742
00:38:11,674 --> 00:38:16,944
failures, and I'm very confident these things will fail to, they will fail at

743
00:38:18,394 --> 00:38:20,534
harming Bitcoin's monetary use case.

744
00:38:20,734 --> 00:38:24,304
Like, none of these inscriptions and things, their noise, blah blah

745
00:38:24,304 --> 00:38:28,764
blah, none of them have diminished Bitcoin's use case as money one iota.

746
00:38:29,299 --> 00:38:32,659
Alright, so, so Bitcoin is demonstrating this, and it's

747
00:38:32,659 --> 00:38:33,809
a different way to look at it.

748
00:38:33,889 --> 00:38:34,019
And

749
00:38:34,059 --> 00:38:34,599
maybe if I make

750
00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:35,919
an interesting choice of

751
00:38:36,249 --> 00:38:39,579
one, I oughta be having been one of the shitcoins that was once

752
00:38:39,589 --> 00:38:40,739
worth three billion dollars, and

753
00:38:40,759 --> 00:38:43,559
I'd be surprised if it's worth three hundred million today, and at

754
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:45,489
extremely low volume, right, trading,

755
00:38:45,739 --> 00:38:47,579
you can probably dump thirty dollars of it a

756
00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:51,669
so these faces are rites of passage, if you will, then, yeah.

757
00:38:51,949 --> 00:38:56,499
So the, okay, let me, let me see how you, how you, what you think

758
00:38:56,509 --> 00:39:00,029
about this thought, because I've been, as always, when something

759
00:39:00,029 --> 00:39:04,509
interesting happened in Bitcoin or something Unusual happens in Bitcoin.

760
00:39:04,989 --> 00:39:09,349
I tried to like see if there's a philosophical thought around this that

761
00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:15,329
can explain what's going on without going into detail and just basically in a tweet

762
00:39:15,329 --> 00:39:21,189
format, the way I see it, like, and that made me think about fees in general and

763
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:23,149
what will happen to them in the future.

764
00:39:23,149 --> 00:39:26,109
Because the narrative we've always told is that fees are going to go

765
00:39:26,119 --> 00:39:27,959
up in the future because of the.

766
00:39:28,664 --> 00:39:33,484
Block reward portion, like the miners reward portion being, um,

767
00:39:33,914 --> 00:39:38,154
uh, the block subsidy being smaller and smaller and the fees going up.

768
00:39:38,814 --> 00:39:43,904
But if you think about it, like the only thing in Bitcoin that is not

769
00:39:43,934 --> 00:39:49,044
made up of data is the Satoshi itself, because the Satoshi is more than just

770
00:39:49,044 --> 00:39:53,444
data because it lives within us and it doesn't exist at all on the blockchain.

771
00:39:53,444 --> 00:39:55,014
It's just unspent transactions.

772
00:39:55,754 --> 00:39:59,424
So it's this, it's this ephemeral thing that.

773
00:39:59,929 --> 00:40:02,549
That is in the thing, but we can't touch it.

774
00:40:02,549 --> 00:40:05,799
And that's the thing that is absolutely finite.

775
00:40:05,839 --> 00:40:07,499
That's the thing that cannot be copied.

776
00:40:07,499 --> 00:40:09,309
That's the thing that is unique.

777
00:40:09,899 --> 00:40:14,129
Anything else, including the next block, there will always be a next block.

778
00:40:14,129 --> 00:40:18,119
It's much more plausible that there will be another block with block

779
00:40:18,119 --> 00:40:22,479
space in it than that there will be more than 21 million bitcoins.

780
00:40:22,969 --> 00:40:24,809
So, which means that in the long run.

781
00:40:25,809 --> 00:40:30,179
The Satoshi will outprice everything else, including block space.

782
00:40:30,709 --> 00:40:35,309
So on a really long time horizon, I suspect fees will,

783
00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:37,409
in sats at least, go down.

784
00:40:38,109 --> 00:40:42,069
They're diminishing over time, simply because of the fact that the sat

785
00:40:42,099 --> 00:40:43,939
is finite and block space is not.

786
00:40:44,349 --> 00:40:48,859
It's finite for a certain time period, but not over eternity.

787
00:40:49,399 --> 00:40:51,559
Uh, uh, where am I going with this?

788
00:40:52,219 --> 00:40:55,419
Well, you're, you're trying to make the case that we don't need

789
00:40:55,419 --> 00:40:58,339
to worry about fees being too high.

790
00:40:58,479 --> 00:41:03,489
not in the long, just to clarify, the cost of sending a Bitcoin will

791
00:41:03,489 --> 00:41:07,449
go up in terms of purchasing power, but not in terms of satoshis.

792
00:41:07,529 --> 00:41:07,829
Yeah.

793
00:41:08,509 --> 00:41:09,049
Do you agree?

794
00:41:09,464 --> 00:41:13,614
well so I'll say I don't I don't actually know right and I and I think

795
00:41:13,759 --> 00:41:15,309
I don't claim to know either,

796
00:41:15,454 --> 00:41:18,664
and neither you nor I are actually gonna live probably to see

797
00:41:18,706 --> 00:41:23,829
it so so this is a question for the next generation I suspect that whichever

798
00:41:23,829 --> 00:41:26,439
way it plays out, things will be fine.

799
00:41:26,529 --> 00:41:28,479
Again, it won't be an existential risk to Bitcoin.

800
00:41:28,609 --> 00:41:32,709
And if it is, then it's a problem for the Bitcoiners of that age to figure out

801
00:41:32,709 --> 00:41:35,559
what changes need to be made to solve it if it turns out to be a problem.

802
00:41:35,729 --> 00:41:39,199
And I'm sure they will be confronted with this, you know, this high time

803
00:41:39,199 --> 00:41:41,389
preference thing of Oh, it looks like it's going to be too expensive.

804
00:41:41,549 --> 00:41:43,519
And other people saying, No, don't worry, it will resolve itself.

805
00:41:44,489 --> 00:41:47,449
And it'll be hard to change, but there will be forces to change.

806
00:41:47,629 --> 00:41:50,139
Like, this is always going to be the case, because there's always human

807
00:41:50,139 --> 00:41:52,519
beings with ideas around what will be.

808
00:41:52,759 --> 00:41:56,909
So, the thing that I have a pretty strong position on is, let's not fix

809
00:41:56,909 --> 00:41:58,419
things that aren't broken yet, right?

810
00:41:58,499 --> 00:42:01,359
Let's, so, there, there might be people who are saying, oh, we need to

811
00:42:01,359 --> 00:42:04,519
increase the block size, or we need to increase the tail emission, create

812
00:42:04,519 --> 00:42:05,739
a tail emission, or all these things.

813
00:42:05,914 --> 00:42:09,634
To solve this problem that is the next generation's problem to solve.

814
00:42:09,694 --> 00:42:13,664
And that, and that, like, I got enough problems that I don't need to solve the

815
00:42:13,664 --> 00:42:18,654
problems that I don't, I can't analyze well and I can only theorize about.

816
00:42:19,064 --> 00:42:21,274
Uh, so, that, that's my take on it.

817
00:42:21,274 --> 00:42:24,004
I don't actually know, and I don't have a strong opinion as to

818
00:42:24,004 --> 00:42:25,154
whether or not it will go down.

819
00:42:25,334 --> 00:42:27,734
I think it's kind of a theoretical thing that I can play out.

820
00:42:28,484 --> 00:42:32,434
It could go in, it could go in different ways, uh, but, but I think

821
00:42:32,444 --> 00:42:36,574
the, if there is a problem, then it's a problem for the next gen, for like

822
00:42:36,574 --> 00:42:40,314
two generations from now to solve, uh, and if there isn't a problem, then,

823
00:42:40,384 --> 00:42:43,854
then will you at least admit that Satoshi was a divine hero who had,

824
00:42:44,489 --> 00:42:45,359
Ha ha.

825
00:42:45,799 --> 00:42:47,019
I will, I will never know.

826
00:42:47,019 --> 00:42:52,129
And I'm fine with never knowing, like I accept that there are some things

827
00:42:52,129 --> 00:42:53,939
that I will never have an answer to.

828
00:42:54,019 --> 00:42:54,639
And I think that.

829
00:42:55,064 --> 00:43:00,774
That is because I believe that the core of all human problems are the

830
00:43:00,774 --> 00:43:02,664
wish for there to be a free lunch.

831
00:43:03,064 --> 00:43:04,344
That's why we have inflation.

832
00:43:04,344 --> 00:43:07,124
That's why we have, we think we can redistribute wealth.

833
00:43:07,124 --> 00:43:12,324
And that's why we, all these things, why we have so much debt.

834
00:43:13,614 --> 00:43:18,309
And that includes The wish for there to be a heaven or a

835
00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:21,179
savior or a divine influence.

836
00:43:21,439 --> 00:43:26,239
That is also in my, in my view, that it's also, uh, the notion of the,

837
00:43:26,509 --> 00:43:28,089
I want there to be a free lunch.

838
00:43:28,299 --> 00:43:32,569
If this is all there is like to me, that is what makes life valuable.

839
00:43:32,669 --> 00:43:33,749
This is all I have.

840
00:43:33,824 --> 00:43:34,354
Mm hmm.

841
00:43:34,479 --> 00:43:35,749
Every, every moment.

842
00:43:36,054 --> 00:43:39,034
It's my last chance to enjoy that particular moment.

843
00:43:39,104 --> 00:43:40,554
If I don't, it's gone forever.

844
00:43:41,034 --> 00:43:43,084
It's like block spaces, but

845
00:43:43,454 --> 00:43:45,904
But you said there's an infinite amount of block space, so don't, aren't you

846
00:43:45,904 --> 00:43:47,704
by definition implying that we live

847
00:43:48,024 --> 00:43:52,124
yeah, but each, each block is, is, is finite.

848
00:43:52,254 --> 00:43:52,484
Like,

849
00:43:53,024 --> 00:43:53,354
Yes.

850
00:43:53,364 --> 00:43:53,664
Every

851
00:43:53,744 --> 00:43:53,954
minute

852
00:43:54,074 --> 00:43:55,304
so, so, so it's,

853
00:43:55,379 --> 00:43:55,679
Yeah.

854
00:43:55,974 --> 00:43:56,584
so that's what

855
00:43:56,599 --> 00:43:57,529
are like time, right?

856
00:43:57,566 --> 00:43:58,169
Like they, they

857
00:43:58,181 --> 00:44:02,799
literally, yeah, they're here and gone.

858
00:44:02,799 --> 00:44:06,269
And if you don't fill, if you don't fill it up with useful stuff, then it's gone

859
00:44:06,269 --> 00:44:07,629
for, then that space has gone forever.

860
00:44:07,629 --> 00:44:10,729
You don't get, you don't put one megabyte into this block and then you

861
00:44:10,729 --> 00:44:12,189
get an extra three in the next block.

862
00:44:12,219 --> 00:44:12,859
It's each

863
00:44:12,896 --> 00:44:15,615
one is limited to four megabytes and they all own, and they each come by

864
00:44:15,615 --> 00:44:17,839
once every 10 minutes on average.

865
00:44:17,839 --> 00:44:18,089
So.

866
00:44:18,474 --> 00:44:21,794
If you don't, if you'd send the bus empty, you know, and this is part of

867
00:44:21,794 --> 00:44:26,664
what the argument that I think some, some of these inscribe inscription

868
00:44:26,794 --> 00:44:29,814
advocates say, well, you're, you, you weren't using all the space.

869
00:44:29,834 --> 00:44:32,684
Now we're using it and it's got, you know, it's got some utility.

870
00:44:33,034 --> 00:44:36,634
My point is to that is that you're using it for scams that don't

871
00:44:36,649 --> 00:44:41,704
actually, so, so that's my criticism of it, but it's a valid criticism to say this

872
00:44:41,724 --> 00:44:45,924
time, this moment is passing and you're, and the only thing you're doing in this

873
00:44:45,924 --> 00:44:47,864
moment is writing Bitcoin transactions.

874
00:44:48,914 --> 00:44:52,464
When you could be putting these lovely monkey JPEGs down in addition,

875
00:44:53,419 --> 00:44:55,069
clearly these inscriptions are scams.

876
00:44:55,069 --> 00:44:55,949
I just want to be real clear.

877
00:44:55,949 --> 00:44:56,589
Don't buy them.

878
00:44:56,589 --> 00:44:57,469
Don't invest in them.

879
00:44:57,469 --> 00:44:59,919
Don't, don't pawn them off on people.

880
00:45:00,119 --> 00:45:02,869
Don't even talk about them, which, which I always say, and then I

881
00:45:02,869 --> 00:45:04,379
end up talking about them anyway.

882
00:45:04,873 --> 00:45:09,613
wanting to make the most out of this scarce resource that passes by as

883
00:45:09,613 --> 00:45:13,303
time is not an evil idea, right?

884
00:45:13,333 --> 00:45:17,353
It's what you do, like wanting to do more evil with the limited amount of

885
00:45:17,393 --> 00:45:20,803
time that we have is an evil idea, but wanting to do more with the

886
00:45:20,853 --> 00:45:22,453
limited time that we have is not.

887
00:45:22,453 --> 00:45:23,197
I,

888
00:45:23,277 --> 00:45:24,117
Or, or yes.

889
00:45:24,137 --> 00:45:25,467
What was I supposed to say?

890
00:45:25,467 --> 00:45:26,067
No, or yes.

891
00:45:27,597 --> 00:45:28,947
clearly weren't even listening at all.

892
00:45:29,597 --> 00:45:30,577
Oh, my goodness.

893
00:45:30,647 --> 00:45:34,787
We're, we're, we're, we're, uh, this is, this is, uh, quite the conversation here.

894
00:45:34,817 --> 00:45:35,587
Absolutely.

895
00:45:35,627 --> 00:45:37,107
Uh, whirlwind of topics.

896
00:45:37,597 --> 00:45:41,117
Uh, maybe I'll take it in a different direction again, uh, Tomer, uh,

897
00:45:41,557 --> 00:45:44,957
can you give us a little bit of a preview of what you came here

898
00:45:44,957 --> 00:45:47,027
to talk about at the conference?

899
00:45:47,027 --> 00:45:48,757
I think we heard something about consciousness.

900
00:45:48,797 --> 00:45:49,767
What's on your mind there?

901
00:45:50,192 --> 00:45:51,332
Segway.

902
00:45:51,687 --> 00:45:52,207
save.

903
00:45:54,297 --> 00:45:55,247
Segway, sorry.

904
00:45:55,807 --> 00:46:00,437
well, I, I think we've, we, we've partly been talking about this already, which

905
00:46:00,437 --> 00:46:07,237
is the, the Bitcoin rescues you from this, the fiat consciousness, right?

906
00:46:07,437 --> 00:46:10,357
That the jury and people.

907
00:46:11,052 --> 00:46:14,012
Most people who are attracted to Bitcoin first hear about it, and they hear

908
00:46:14,012 --> 00:46:16,972
about it, and they think it's a get rich quick scheme, a very fiat view.

909
00:46:16,972 --> 00:46:20,282
It's like, ooh, I can get more fiat money, and fiat is the net worth of

910
00:46:20,282 --> 00:46:23,832
all things, so here I go, and I'll be able to buy a Lamborghini, and

911
00:46:23,902 --> 00:46:25,712
a nice house, and not have to work.

912
00:46:26,037 --> 00:46:30,527
Right, all these fiat things, like, so you don't work and you consume, that's exactly

913
00:46:30,527 --> 00:46:32,587
what the fiat economists want, right?

914
00:46:34,367 --> 00:46:39,407
So that's what Bitcoin draws people in with, but there's this change in

915
00:46:39,407 --> 00:46:40,997
consciousness that happens to Bitcoiners.

916
00:46:41,027 --> 00:46:44,217
Like, we're not walking around, and if we were in a conference eight years

917
00:46:44,217 --> 00:46:47,017
ago, there were a lot, there were a lot of people who were very excited about

918
00:46:47,017 --> 00:46:48,487
how fiat rich they were gonna get.

919
00:46:48,822 --> 00:46:52,562
You don't really see people here talking about, can you imagine

920
00:46:52,562 --> 00:46:53,312
how rich we're going to be?

921
00:46:53,512 --> 00:46:56,172
Look, Michael Saylor did a presentation yesterday and his last slide was

922
00:46:56,172 --> 00:47:00,432
all about the spiritual journey of what, of what Bitcoiners get.

923
00:47:00,442 --> 00:47:03,902
And, and, and when he was even talking about it as an investment, it was

924
00:47:03,902 --> 00:47:05,692
about, it protects families, right?

925
00:47:05,692 --> 00:47:09,802
It protected the values of companies as ideas for creating

926
00:47:09,802 --> 00:47:11,062
value and producing values.

927
00:47:11,362 --> 00:47:15,992
This isn't about fiat consumption, and that's the transformation that happens,

928
00:47:15,992 --> 00:47:19,682
and I was talking about it a little bit before, I think there's many paths

929
00:47:19,982 --> 00:47:23,812
that Bitcoiners go through to start to experience this transformation.

930
00:47:24,042 --> 00:47:28,392
There's a few articles that I wrote a couple of years ago, one is called

931
00:47:28,392 --> 00:47:32,352
Rich or Poor, Bitcoiners have what money can't buy, and it was just like,

932
00:47:32,492 --> 00:47:35,352
you hear about Bitcoin, you hear it's about getting rich, so you start to

933
00:47:35,362 --> 00:47:39,512
study it, and you learn about money, and you learn about how money works,

934
00:47:39,512 --> 00:47:41,212
and so you're forced to learn about it.

935
00:47:41,482 --> 00:47:44,752
This and you learn about the mathematics of Bitcoin, or you learn about proof of

936
00:47:44,752 --> 00:47:47,912
work, you learn about energy, you learn about the environment, you learn about

937
00:47:47,912 --> 00:47:52,642
all of the, these things, and, and you question it, and you talk to people,

938
00:47:52,652 --> 00:47:55,472
and you make friends, and you discover all these things, and so at the end of

939
00:47:55,472 --> 00:47:58,522
the day, you've become smarter, right?

940
00:47:58,652 --> 00:48:01,082
Well, intelligence is not something that money can buy.

941
00:48:01,212 --> 00:48:02,832
You become more independent thinker.

942
00:48:02,932 --> 00:48:04,102
You can't buy that for money.

943
00:48:04,102 --> 00:48:06,582
You can't, like, go to a store and say, I'd like to buy independent thought.

944
00:48:06,597 --> 00:48:10,787
You have friends, you have conviction in yourself.

945
00:48:10,797 --> 00:48:12,347
These are not things you can buy for money.

946
00:48:12,577 --> 00:48:15,677
And so the process of becoming a bitcoiner, going through all these

947
00:48:15,677 --> 00:48:19,407
checks and balances, validating, doing the proof of work of yourself,

948
00:48:19,427 --> 00:48:22,917
understanding what proof of work is, is something that gives you integrity,

949
00:48:22,997 --> 00:48:26,037
friendship, intelligence, independence.

950
00:48:26,567 --> 00:48:27,997
And those are all things that money can't buy.

951
00:48:27,997 --> 00:48:31,707
And whether you have a lot of Bitcoin or a little Bitcoin, you end up with

952
00:48:31,707 --> 00:48:34,247
these things that money can't buy and you go through this process.

953
00:48:34,427 --> 00:48:38,247
And so there, that's like one element of spiritual awakening and spiritual

954
00:48:38,247 --> 00:48:42,327
growth that happens just by being curious enough to ask, well, is

955
00:48:42,327 --> 00:48:44,007
this thing going to make me rich?

956
00:48:44,267 --> 00:48:46,892
And by the time you're done, it's like, It's made me rich, right?

957
00:48:46,892 --> 00:48:50,512
It's made me rich in the sense of I have, I have all these things that

958
00:48:50,512 --> 00:48:54,532
give me confidence and conviction and happiness without having to spend money.

959
00:48:55,022 --> 00:48:57,242
So it's, it's really, it's really powerful.

960
00:48:57,242 --> 00:48:57,452
And

961
00:48:57,941 --> 00:49:02,451
is so close to, uh, the, the, the thing I always, uh, repeat,

962
00:49:02,491 --> 00:49:07,021
like, uh, a thing my grandfather said, like on my father's side.

963
00:49:07,021 --> 00:49:07,961
I never met the guy.

964
00:49:08,331 --> 00:49:11,621
But my dad really liked the expression, and that is, that

965
00:49:11,651 --> 00:49:13,521
which you can do without you own.

966
00:49:14,261 --> 00:49:17,351
And like, the more I think about that, even to this day, the

967
00:49:17,351 --> 00:49:19,081
more profoundly true it becomes.

968
00:49:19,121 --> 00:49:22,951
Because it's the flip side of your things end up owning you.

969
00:49:23,351 --> 00:49:26,701
You have a big yacht, you need to maintain, like,

970
00:49:27,416 --> 00:49:29,896
if you have a lot of money, like now you have to protect the money and

971
00:49:29,906 --> 00:49:32,596
reinvest it and do all this stuff with it, you know, it doesn't buy you the

972
00:49:32,596 --> 00:49:33,986
peace of mind that you thought it did,

973
00:49:34,001 --> 00:49:38,271
yeah, and Bitcoin is the embodiment of exactly that.

974
00:49:38,281 --> 00:49:41,129
But it, it, it is pointing out to everyone that.

975
00:49:41,394 --> 00:49:45,204
That, which you can do without your own, so, and that's, yeah, I don't

976
00:49:45,204 --> 00:49:48,574
know if we'll all end up being Buddhist monks at some point, but,

977
00:49:49,134 --> 00:49:50,824
but we'll know, we'll know what's enough.

978
00:49:50,824 --> 00:49:51,084
Right.

979
00:49:51,274 --> 00:49:53,654
And I think this is like Fiat says, it's never enough.

980
00:49:53,664 --> 00:49:53,804
He

981
00:49:53,814 --> 00:49:56,304
who dies with the most toys, when you have one yacht, you're going

982
00:49:56,304 --> 00:49:57,734
to You, you need a second yacht.

983
00:49:57,744 --> 00:49:59,464
You have two yachts, you need a bigger yacht, right?

984
00:49:59,704 --> 00:50:03,344
Like, there's no, there's no, this is sufficient, right?

985
00:50:03,384 --> 00:50:08,254
Which is ironic in so many different ways, because it doesn't ask you to ask,

986
00:50:08,254 --> 00:50:09,944
what do you actually want for yourself?

987
00:50:10,094 --> 00:50:14,794
It's just feeding you ads and consumption and lifestyle ideas that say, look at

988
00:50:14,794 --> 00:50:18,704
this person with this big mansion, look at this celebrity with their private

989
00:50:18,714 --> 00:50:20,054
jet, look at all of this, right?

990
00:50:21,914 --> 00:50:25,714
And those people aren't necessarily happier, they're caught up in some

991
00:50:25,714 --> 00:50:29,234
machine that is now you have to make more money to maintain your private

992
00:50:29,254 --> 00:50:32,194
jet and your seven villas and your mansions and put flowers in all of them.

993
00:50:32,474 --> 00:50:36,164
And so you don't, and these are not things that make you rich,

994
00:50:36,494 --> 00:50:37,614
they're not satisfying at all.

995
00:50:37,754 --> 00:50:42,954
Owning a house that you've never been to and financing it like, you know, Joe

996
00:50:42,954 --> 00:50:46,994
Walsh has that song about having too much money and he said, I have a mansion.

997
00:50:47,689 --> 00:50:48,739
I forget the price.

998
00:50:48,999 --> 00:50:49,949
I've never been there.

999
00:50:49,949 --> 00:50:51,019
They tell me it's nice.

1000
00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:53,169
I think that's one of the verses from it.

1001
00:50:53,459 --> 00:50:54,569
Life's been good to me.

1002
00:50:54,739 --> 00:50:56,859
That's like the epitome of fiat

1003
00:50:57,274 --> 00:51:02,194
there's so many things that come off of that, like, a lawn, for instance,

1004
00:51:02,424 --> 00:51:06,954
like, you need to mow the lawn, like, the lawn was invented in the UK.

1005
00:51:07,504 --> 00:51:13,704
To, to, to, to show people where the limits of your, your lands were,

1006
00:51:13,864 --> 00:51:15,404
so, so that to keep people out.

1007
00:51:15,984 --> 00:51:20,254
But it's no place in nature, and now all of a sudden you need a lawnmower,

1008
00:51:20,664 --> 00:51:26,234
and right, like, in, in suburban Sweden, like, automatic lawnmowers,

1009
00:51:26,274 --> 00:51:29,124
robotic lawnmowers, and trampolines.

1010
00:51:29,134 --> 00:51:33,329
They were the latest thing that every single neighbor needed to have, like, In

1011
00:51:33,329 --> 00:51:37,309
Spain it's probably the pool, the swimming pool, every garden needs a swimming

1012
00:51:37,309 --> 00:51:40,819
pool, everyone needs a trampoline, everyone's keeping up with the Joneses.

1013
00:51:41,274 --> 00:51:44,914
Another thing in Sweden that was big was like, uh, a box on the roof of

1014
00:51:44,914 --> 00:51:49,374
your car for your skis, like, and everyone wanted a fancier, fancier

1015
00:51:49,374 --> 00:51:51,174
box on the roof of their cars.

1016
00:51:51,514 --> 00:51:54,724
And all of these things, it's just chasing the, it's like a heroine

1017
00:51:54,724 --> 00:51:56,604
is chasing the next hit, right?

1018
00:51:56,624 --> 00:51:58,944
It's, it, it leads you nowhere.

1019
00:51:59,089 --> 00:52:03,169
and I'm the first to admit I was caught on that treadmill for a long time.

1020
00:52:03,169 --> 00:52:04,999
I'm still not entirely off of it, right?

1021
00:52:05,019 --> 00:52:09,119
Like, I I grew up in a fiat world, and I, my parents would drive us around,

1022
00:52:09,119 --> 00:52:13,399
and we would look at fancy houses, and I desired fancy houses, I, I, right,

1023
00:52:13,409 --> 00:52:16,959
like, it was ingrained into me, and, you know, that, that aspiration, and

1024
00:52:16,959 --> 00:52:20,979
there's nothing wrong with having an aspiration to have more betterment, but

1025
00:52:21,079 --> 00:52:23,989
when, when it's purely for the sake of

1026
00:52:24,468 --> 00:52:25,518
Keeping up with the news.

1027
00:52:25,623 --> 00:52:25,883
Yeah.

1028
00:52:25,883 --> 00:52:28,963
keeping up with the Joneses, or making impressions on, on other people,

1029
00:52:29,133 --> 00:52:32,373
or you don't, you don't appreciate how much work it is versus how much

1030
00:52:32,648 --> 00:52:33,088
No, no.

1031
00:52:33,308 --> 00:52:34,298
When it's signaling.

1032
00:52:34,628 --> 00:52:35,088
Yeah,

1033
00:52:35,328 --> 00:52:36,768
yeah, when it's second, it's second handed.

1034
00:52:36,768 --> 00:52:37,918
It's not, I'm enjoying it.

1035
00:52:37,918 --> 00:52:40,818
It's like, what I'm enjoying is that other people think that I'm enjoying

1036
00:52:41,573 --> 00:52:41,793
Yeah.

1037
00:52:41,793 --> 00:52:42,043
Yeah.

1038
00:52:42,158 --> 00:52:45,608
I'm, I'm not actually happier than them, but at least they think I'm happier than

1039
00:52:45,611 --> 00:52:45,828
them.

1040
00:52:45,828 --> 00:52:49,058
They've got, they're sad because, so it's all, it's all second handed.

1041
00:52:49,058 --> 00:52:52,328
It's not, it's not you expressing yourself and figuring out what is true.

1042
00:52:52,328 --> 00:52:55,938
And you may be someone who needs a very big house because you're doing

1043
00:52:55,938 --> 00:52:59,398
all these things, but you're, you're, when you know what it is that you

1044
00:52:59,398 --> 00:53:02,938
want, You can be very simple about what your, what your needs are.

1045
00:53:03,108 --> 00:53:08,088
And, and then as you're growing, if you've saved your money and you have money,

1046
00:53:08,088 --> 00:53:10,898
that's reliable, and you've discovered what it is that you want, that's one

1047
00:53:10,898 --> 00:53:14,328
thing to spend your money on to spend it on something that further advances and

1048
00:53:14,328 --> 00:53:16,168
develops your discovery of your true self.

1049
00:53:16,168 --> 00:53:16,488
If you're an

1050
00:53:16,566 --> 00:53:17,818
artist, more art equipment.

1051
00:53:17,818 --> 00:53:20,488
If you're a musician, more, more music equipment.

1052
00:53:20,488 --> 00:53:22,318
If you're a builder, more tools.

1053
00:53:22,458 --> 00:53:25,458
Like all of these things and some of these things you don't need to spend money on.

1054
00:53:25,458 --> 00:53:28,368
You need to spend time on learning, but you, you, you may

1055
00:53:28,368 --> 00:53:29,688
need tools to practice with.

1056
00:53:29,688 --> 00:53:33,068
So that's what the purpose of money needs to be.

1057
00:53:33,068 --> 00:53:38,198
It doesn't need to be that you know, to, uh, conspicuous consumption.

1058
00:53:38,558 --> 00:53:38,888
Right?

1059
00:53:39,303 --> 00:53:39,583
I don't.

1060
00:53:39,623 --> 00:53:43,203
And all this, you know, competing with your neighbors, it's all,

1061
00:53:43,633 --> 00:53:45,053
at the end of the day, it's envy.

1062
00:53:45,063 --> 00:53:46,253
It's driven by envy,

1063
00:53:46,793 --> 00:53:51,793
which is also what's driving, uh, the driving force behind all

1064
00:53:52,183 --> 00:53:54,583
left wing political ideologies.

1065
00:53:54,813 --> 00:53:57,823
It's, it's driven by envy to a large extent, I think.

1066
00:53:57,978 --> 00:53:58,158
Yeah.

1067
00:53:58,158 --> 00:54:00,258
It's take from those who have to give to those who

1068
00:54:00,378 --> 00:54:01,878
don't because the, those who don't

1069
00:54:02,268 --> 00:54:03,138
envy those who'd

1070
00:54:03,148 --> 00:54:05,558
an envy, it's a deadly sin, right?

1071
00:54:05,558 --> 00:54:12,448
And I think envy is very much connected to the wish for there to be a free lunch.

1072
00:54:12,448 --> 00:54:13,618
It's basically the same thing.

1073
00:54:13,951 --> 00:54:14,221
yeah.

1074
00:54:14,276 --> 00:54:17,016
envy doesn't, it doesn't lead to anywhere good.

1075
00:54:17,056 --> 00:54:18,176
It leads to a very poor.

1076
00:54:18,226 --> 00:54:20,796
And if you live your life in, you know,

1077
00:54:21,211 --> 00:54:22,621
I want what that other person has.

1078
00:54:22,806 --> 00:54:23,356
yeah, yeah.

1079
00:54:23,356 --> 00:54:27,986
And, and, uh, comparing yourself to others all the time, you're never

1080
00:54:27,986 --> 00:54:29,466
going to get anywhere, like anywhere

1081
00:54:29,616 --> 00:54:30,136
is, you may

1082
00:54:30,196 --> 00:54:33,826
not, you may not completely agree with this, but I think every person

1083
00:54:35,186 --> 00:54:39,376
within them has like the most beautiful uniqueness about themselves and

1084
00:54:39,476 --> 00:54:43,356
they need to love that, they need to recognize that and accept it and love

1085
00:54:43,356 --> 00:54:44,346
themselves for who they

1086
00:54:44,526 --> 00:54:45,846
do accept Craig Wright.

1087
00:54:46,291 --> 00:54:50,131
Not hate themselves, well, somewhere deep inside Craig Wright, there's,

1088
00:54:50,181 --> 00:54:53,981
there's something, right, but he is, he, you talk about envy and wanting to

1089
00:54:53,991 --> 00:54:57,291
be someone else, right, like, envy is, I want to be like that other person,

1090
00:54:57,291 --> 00:54:58,651
he's like, he's taken it to the extreme

1091
00:54:58,679 --> 00:54:59,961
of claiming, I am that

1092
00:55:00,054 --> 00:55:00,691
other person,

1093
00:55:00,726 --> 00:55:03,506
He's a win wins the envy race.

1094
00:55:03,801 --> 00:55:03,944
Yeah.

1095
00:55:04,081 --> 00:55:07,161
so, it's, it's kind of envy driven, but, there's, there's

1096
00:55:07,161 --> 00:55:08,961
something so beautiful about every

1097
00:55:09,206 --> 00:55:09,896
I'm sure he has

1098
00:55:09,971 --> 00:55:15,541
and if you, if you just Recognize what that is and live that within

1099
00:55:15,541 --> 00:55:19,731
yourself and develop that, then you will be, as we said before, you will

1100
00:55:19,731 --> 00:55:23,501
be loved and admired for what you are.

1101
00:55:23,671 --> 00:55:26,301
And there are people who will love you and admire you for what you are, but

1102
00:55:26,521 --> 00:55:27,951
you have to be prepared to be that.

1103
00:55:28,101 --> 00:55:33,191
If what you're trying to do is be like the Joneses, but with a bigger ski rack.

1104
00:55:34,111 --> 00:55:36,091
Nobody's gonna love you for that, right?

1105
00:55:36,791 --> 00:55:40,501
In fact, the only, you're, you're not doing it to generate love, you're doing it

1106
00:55:40,511 --> 00:55:42,251
to generate envy, which is a form of hate.

1107
00:55:42,281 --> 00:55:44,041
It's like, I fucking hate that guy!

1108
00:55:44,221 --> 00:55:48,231
Now I gotta work so much harder to get a bigger ski rack on my car than him,

1109
00:55:48,431 --> 00:55:51,221
cause he, you know, if he never got that bigger ski rack, I wouldn't have to get

1110
00:55:51,221 --> 00:55:53,491
this bigger ski rack to make him envy me.

1111
00:55:53,631 --> 00:55:56,946
So it's like, this race of getting, You know, getting more people to hate

1112
00:55:56,946 --> 00:56:00,546
you and you realize you're not actually achieving any, you're not achieving love.

1113
00:56:00,546 --> 00:56:01,846
You're not achieving acceptance.

1114
00:56:02,056 --> 00:56:05,416
You're actually trying to break, you're trying to achieve jealousy

1115
00:56:05,416 --> 00:56:07,136
and hatred towards yourself.

1116
00:56:07,596 --> 00:56:09,806
That's, that's kind of, kind of counterproductive.

1117
00:56:09,806 --> 00:56:13,646
If love is what we're after, you should get a smaller ski rack.

1118
00:56:14,741 --> 00:56:18,421
In the words of Frank Zappa, you are what you is, and that's all there is.

1119
00:56:19,126 --> 00:56:19,476
Yeah.

1120
00:56:20,745 --> 00:56:24,485
Oh man, hey, I think we should probably wrap this up, because you've got to get

1121
00:56:24,485 --> 00:56:28,575
to your next, uh, your book signing here, Tomer, but this has been a lot of fun.

1122
00:56:29,035 --> 00:56:33,045
Any last thoughts, like it's not super, super tight here, but any last

1123
00:56:33,045 --> 00:56:36,685
thoughts about this conference and your impressions of Madeira, all that,

1124
00:56:36,695 --> 00:56:37,865
you've already covered it somewhat.

1125
00:56:37,915 --> 00:56:38,115
Where

1126
00:56:38,115 --> 00:56:39,455
can we find you online and all?

1127
00:56:40,185 --> 00:56:42,385
Well, now you're skipping ahead, I'm asking another question.

1128
00:56:42,415 --> 00:56:42,955
Okay, okay.

1129
00:56:44,490 --> 00:56:45,619
So the conference is amazing.

1130
00:56:45,780 --> 00:56:50,430
Like it, you know, this is a, as far as like I'm getting to meet certain people

1131
00:56:50,430 --> 00:56:54,630
for the first time ever, who I've known for years, Europeans in particular.

1132
00:56:54,630 --> 00:56:57,720
And so just the chance to meet people again in person who you've known for

1133
00:56:57,725 --> 00:56:59,940
years is, is really touching, right?

1134
00:56:59,940 --> 00:57:02,340
It's like it makes you cry and you hug it out.

1135
00:57:02,340 --> 00:57:05,880
So there's been a lot of hugging and crying and, um.

1136
00:57:07,130 --> 00:57:08,960
And the place is beautiful, right?

1137
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:11,980
I, as I was saying earlier in the podcast, like I, this is a place I can

1138
00:57:11,980 --> 00:57:15,880
probably get my family to come to, and it's a place that's embracing Bitcoin.

1139
00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:18,770
So there's just a, there's, there's a lot to be said for this.

1140
00:57:18,770 --> 00:57:22,620
I'm sure there will be one here next year and, uh, and I'm sure

1141
00:57:22,620 --> 00:57:24,680
I'll be coming back to it again.

1142
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:26,210
It's a real, it's a real winner.

1143
00:57:26,220 --> 00:57:29,640
And, um, it's nice that we now have one called Atlantis

1144
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:31,260
or Atlantic and one Pacific.

1145
00:57:31,490 --> 00:57:33,670
We got, we got all the oceans covered.

1146
00:57:34,705 --> 00:57:35,415
For Bitcoin.

1147
00:57:35,445 --> 00:57:37,235
So it's really, it's really a delight.

1148
00:57:37,445 --> 00:57:40,025
Um, and, uh, what was the other question?

1149
00:57:40,245 --> 00:57:40,555
Where

1150
00:57:40,615 --> 00:57:41,705
now Knut, now you

1151
00:57:41,705 --> 00:57:42,295
can go ahead and

1152
00:57:42,415 --> 00:57:43,095
Where can you find

1153
00:57:43,295 --> 00:57:44,445
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1154
00:57:44,655 --> 00:57:46,185
But first, right back at you.

1155
00:57:46,235 --> 00:57:48,925
I mean, it's wonderful to see you again and having this

1156
00:57:48,925 --> 00:57:50,285
reunion with you and Fractal.

1157
00:57:50,285 --> 00:57:52,235
Of course, we miss Brekkie from our little

1158
00:57:52,705 --> 00:57:53,955
thing in Miami there

1159
00:57:54,385 --> 00:57:55,195
two years ago.

1160
00:57:55,625 --> 00:57:57,935
But, uh, yeah, where can people find you online and

1161
00:57:58,605 --> 00:57:59,055
So,

1162
00:57:59,235 --> 00:57:59,735
your work?

1163
00:57:59,815 --> 00:58:05,550
yeah, so at Tomer Strolight on Twitter, You'll find my NPUB there as well, so you

1164
00:58:05,550 --> 00:58:11,600
can find me on Nostr, um, at the very top, and, and Tomer Strolight on Nostr as well.

1165
00:58:11,860 --> 00:58:15,350
Um, a lot of these essays that we've talked about are, I don't

1166
00:58:15,350 --> 00:58:19,020
publish much on Medium anymore, but they're still all on, on Medium, so.

1167
00:58:19,550 --> 00:58:24,120
Medium Tomer Strolight, um, and, uh, I publish a lot of my

1168
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,790
articles on the Svan blog, svan.

1169
00:58:26,790 --> 00:58:27,690
com slash blog.

1170
00:58:28,290 --> 00:58:32,110
And, uh, there's a couple of, uh, movies that I've been involved in making,

1171
00:58:32,110 --> 00:58:33,820
and there's a couple more coming out.

1172
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,510
Um, I really encourage people to see Bitcoin as generational wealth, if you

1173
00:58:37,555 --> 00:58:38,400
just Google that.

1174
00:58:38,790 --> 00:58:42,750
Um, it's a really touching movie and, uh, there's a whole long story behind it.

1175
00:58:42,750 --> 00:58:45,200
But it's just 50, the story is longer than the movie.

1176
00:58:45,220 --> 00:58:47,210
The movie is under 15 minutes long.

1177
00:58:47,550 --> 00:58:50,890
And, uh, for Bitcoiners who are looking for that, why am I in this?

1178
00:58:50,890 --> 00:58:52,170
What are we in this for?

1179
00:58:52,470 --> 00:58:57,860
I think, um, it provides a historic context and a vision into the

1180
00:58:57,860 --> 00:59:00,630
future that, uh, is quite moving.

1181
00:59:01,710 --> 00:59:02,410
Fantastic.

1182
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:03,910
Tomer,

1183
00:59:04,270 --> 00:59:05,010
And give us a hug.

1184
00:59:05,430 --> 00:59:06,010
For sure.

1185
00:59:07,310 --> 00:59:08,890
This has been the Freedom Footprint Show.

1186
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:09,820
Thanks for listening.

1187
00:59:09,820 --> 00:59:11,500
Don't forget to like, subscribe, and brush your teeth.