Riding the Bitcoin Wave with Surfer Jim - FFS #90

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this is why I believe governments cannot sustain themselves at the levels they are.

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Giant armies are not going to exist in the future, because

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nobody will just voluntarily spend their money in that direction.

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Bitcoin to me was discovered.

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principles that allow it to work have always existed in the universe.

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Every new invention, what we call an invention, seems to me to be a discovery

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of a new arrangement of molecules and atoms to solve a similar problem that a

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worser arrangement was solving for people.

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Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint Show.

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Our guest today is Surfer Jim, surfer, entrepreneur, and Bitcoiner.

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He's also recently joined the Bitcoin Advisor, so I think we'll hear about that.

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Jim, welcome to the Freedom Footprint Show.

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Thanks for joining us.

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This is such an honor.

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Honestly, you guys have one of

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the best podcasts out there.

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Um, I like the fact that it's not just entirely Bitcoin, because you

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guys will go off on some really cool tangents that happen to interest me.

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So, uh, I'm stoked to talk to you guys.

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This is awesome.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, surfer, entrepreneur, bitcoiner, and gym.

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All in the same package.

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I'm going to have to change my Twitter name.

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Good to see you again, man.

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Um,

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been a while.

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Uh, I think the last time I saw you, Knut, was in Miami, possibly.

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Uh, Satoshi Rakamoto.

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oh yeah, yeah.

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You offered to pick me up at the airport, but I got an earlier,

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got in to an earlier ride.

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Thank you for the offer.

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Anyway,

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may have heard of when I go to conferences, uh, most of them.

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The only one I think, I don't rent a car is the one in Vegas for

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Unconfiscatable, but I rent a car.

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I like to have my own mobility at my whim, and I found that whenever I was

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going somewhere around conferences, other people were also going.

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To similar places, side events or whatnot.

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And I would always just put people in the car and say, Hey, who needs a ride?

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I got empty seats.

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Let's all go together.

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I ended up driving places all the time with people I never planned

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to be with, just because they're in a group of people when I'm leaving

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somewhere and people want rides.

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So I started offering people, if I'm in the area, I'll come pick

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you up from the airport then.

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You and I would have had 15 20 minutes of just personal time.

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We could talk.

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I did it with all, all these different individuals, like Alex Svetsky one day.

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We were both going to a party at Katie Rushen's house, and Francis

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was going to be there, and a bunch of, it was like 10 people.

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And it was like a half hour drive, and he didn't have a car, and I was going

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there anyway, and we had never met, I took a picture of the car on the side

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of the road, I go, find this car, I'm on this street, and he was, you know, two

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blocks away in his hotel, jumps in, we got a half hour to just me and him chat

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together, it's just great, I get to, you know, personal conversations with

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Bitcoiners, so I just do it all the time, and uh, if it's ever a situation like

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that again, I'd be happy to pick you up.

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yeah, I'll be happy to hitch a ride.

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Um, yeah, so you say you're a fan of the show, uh, which warms our hearts.

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We love to hear that.

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So, any, anything specific that we brought up on the show earlier on

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that you want to bring up today?

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Like,

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Well, three, three conversations, um, really stick out in my mind.

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Uh, the one with Izzy, uh, the one with Chaka Mozuko, and the one with Roger 9000.

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So, I know, I know all three people pretty well, and, um, what I loved

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about the conversation was the, the more metaphysical Sort of purity,

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uh, that Bitcoin brings to the world.

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I love the whole element zero, uh, discussion.

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If I'm not mistaken, wasn't there a conversation you had,

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element zero at absolute zero, um,

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yeah, yeah,

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with one of the Dunworth

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yeah, Peter, I think.

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I think so, because he told us, he talked about his brother time locked Bitcoin

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into the future like a hundred years.

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It's just a mind boggling concept.

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And I just find it so fascinating.

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So, uh, you liked one of the tweets I sent out this morning about, uh,

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somebody had said that Bitcoin is limited and I Sort of push back on that.

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There's limits, but there's a depth to understanding large numbers and how

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Bitcoin works that the average person wouldn't even think to consider, and even

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a lot of Bitcoiners don't really grasp.

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How deep it is, essentially, I mean, you know, the idea that you've, uh, brought up

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many times about Bitcoin is in your head, or can be, uh, is, is the, is the idea

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that every Bitcoin is just a large number, and humans have figured out ways to

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remember them in the form of words, right?

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but essentially, every Bitcoin is just a very large number, uh, out of a much,

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much, much larger pool of numbers.

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Like, the available numbers that can become a Bitcoin is insanely large.

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And it's not even all the numbers that are available in reality,

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because that goes out to infinity, so it sort of never stops.

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But there is still a limit to how many numbers can be used

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within the Bitcoin protocol.

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But of the amount usable, only a fraction of them will ever get used.

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And, and that's when, when you consider the concept that I have a

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wallet, and I can create an XPUB, and out of that I can create billions of

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addresses, and so can everybody else.

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And yet, it's still a fraction of the amount of numbers available

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to represent the Bitcoin network.

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It's just a mind boggling concept to me.

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Um, so I got a question for you, Knut and Luke.

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Um, I look at it this way.

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Theoretically, the amount of Bitcoins is Uh, or the amount of numbers that need,

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that can be possibly used to represent all the bitcoins is 21 quadrillion.

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So, so every sat, if, if you could have every sat in its own address, right?

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So that's 21 million bitcoins times 100 million sats.

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I think the number is 21 quadrillion.

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I'm no math guy.

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But assuming, we know that the network won't allow you to have

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every single sat separated.

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I like that, because there's dust limits and there's these and all this stuff.

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But, theoretically, if you could separate every set and give it a

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number, it's 21 quadrillion numbers.

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And yet, that is infinitely small compared to the amount of numbers

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that a SHA 256 hash can represent.

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And I may not be connecting the right metrics, because I'm not a technical guy.

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It's more about the idea that there's a limited amount of bitcoins

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available within the system.

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But they're out of a much, much larger available pool of numbers,

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since every Bitcoin is just a number.

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Does this make sense?

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Does this fit in with your perspective on

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yeah, you, you picked, this must be the stars aligning or something

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again, because you picked the absolute right day to ask me this question.

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why?

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What makes today such the right date?

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Because today I woke up at five o'clock and I'm working, whenever

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I woke up earlier than my family, which is almost every day, but

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maybe not at five o'clock every day.

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So, but, but, um.

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Uh, I, I try to work, I try to write something, and right now I'm writing

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a, a piece for an orange pill app book that Brian DeMint and some others

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are, are, uh, and me are working on.

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And I'm also trying to write some stuff of, on, on my own.

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So I was working on that, and I had these ideas.

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and uh, after a while I decided to, to do this.

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I'm doing this, uh, 100 pushups till 100k bitcoin thing that

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became a meme two days ago.

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Yeah,

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a hundred, but um, I started yesterday.

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I literally did.

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I said, I was at the gym.

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I started working out again a couple weeks ago, because it's

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winter and I get fat in the winter.

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And I said, yeah, I'm going to do some pushups.

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I didn't even come close to a hundred, but good for you.

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oh, yeah, yeah, well, I don't do 100 in a row, I split them up, but, but

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I decided to do 200 because Why not?

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And then I went for a long run, and when you do that, I came back, and

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I've been a good little boy, and my brain was like, speeding away,

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ADDing, full on, so I was thinking about stuff like, Stuff like this.

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And I DM back and forth with a friend about, uh, who was in an argument

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with Dan Held or something about, about the Schrödinger's Cat JPEGs.

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You know, you only own them until, until someone observes them.

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Yeah.

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Oh, that's, that whole thing with the cats and everything

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is killing me, but continue.

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A couple of thoughts ran into my head.

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First of all, I've been thinking about how to debunk this in a, you know,

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short tweet like format for a long time.

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Like, how do I do that?

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And at the same time, I've been thinking about how not to

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give attention to shitcoiners.

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And I realized the first insight is like conversations you're talking about,

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like, they're also, I would also throw in Jeff Booth's episode there for,

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Yes, I saw that one, too.

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Yeah, that was a really, that was really good.

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Thank you for reminding me.

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That was excellent.

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yeah, and Volker Herminghaus episode, if you haven't watched that one, you should.

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one.

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Okay, thank

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Because it's about similar things, and it's about the mind and how, to

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which extent the mind creates reality.

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And, the way it does, like, what you focus on literally

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becomes your subjective reality.

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That, we know that to be true, like, whatever your mind focuses

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on is the word you live in.

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So, I, my thought is like, hang on a minute, that, that is, like The

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internet is sort of amplifying that, because if you focus on shitcoiners,

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for instance, battling shitcoiners, you know, wrestle with pigs, not only does

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the pig like it, but the only thing that happens is that you get dirty.

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Exactly.

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So, so the thing is, uh, when you focus on, instead of focusing on building

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things and doing optimistic, positive things and focusing on Bitcoin, Uh, if

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you focus on fighting these fights about arbitrary things, then that becomes

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your reality, and it fuels their fire, because all they crave is attention.

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Wh whenever someone calls, uh, you know, the, what's he called, uh, Shitboy Crapto?

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When, when everyone, when any, whenever anyone calls out shit, boy crypto and,

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and, uh, says how stupid he is, he gets exactly what he wants because he, all

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he craves is likes and retweets and attention because the more attention he

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gets, the, the more likely it is that there's an idiot there somewhere to scam.

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And that's the only thing.

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So the thing is is the thing that reverses clown world, um, is.

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If, if you focus on clown world, you will live in clown world.

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And it doesn't matter if it's 180 genders, if it's as a border wall to, to, to,

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to, to take a, a, a, an example from the other side of the political aisle, you

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know, or if it's, uh, or if it's cat, jp.

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If you focus on that stuff, that stuff will be in your world.

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That is your world.

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Yeah, while you're thinking on it, that's the world you're in, I totally get it,

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And also, like, this is a point that Jeff makes a lot, whenever you hop over to

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the Bitcoin system instead of the legacy system, not only do you free yourself

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from the legacy system, but you actually take away You're part of that, so that

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the legacy system can't use you and your energy and your, you know, efforts any

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longer, because it's in the new system.

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So you simultaneously free yourself and diminish the power

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of the powers that be, somewhat.

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So that's the thing, focus and attention.

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is crucial, and focus an attention, do optimistic things, do bitcoin,

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and everything will be fine.

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First for you, and then for everyone else.

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So that's the first thought I had this morning.

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Um, and the other one was about the, the, the scarcity of the, of the bitcoins,

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and the numbers you're referring to here.

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Because I realized, I saw this in my head, like the, the Satoshi is rare.

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Satoshis don't exist to begin with, it's just unspent transactions,

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but, outputs, but, anyway, they do exist in people's heads, as you say,

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because All owning a bitcoin is, is keeping a secret from someone.

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the satoshis are finite.

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But, the blocks aren't.

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A new block is always out there to be found.

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I saw the pushback you got on the tweet this morning, that, uh, within

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our lifetimes, they are obviously finite, but you're right, that

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there's forever, potentially, so continue your thought, I'm, I'm

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Yeah, and you can think generationally.

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If you can think generationally, then your own death does not limit how far

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into the future you can send your bitcoin.

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Michael Dunworth has already proven that.

234
00:14:44,667 --> 00:14:48,897
So that's the thing, and block space or time space on the time chain

235
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is definitely not as scarce as the Satoshis themselves in the long run.

236
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So I see that they are scarce, somewhat scarce, because there's

237
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only so much of it every ten minutes.

238
00:15:01,852 --> 00:15:06,432
So, so you have this, you have this finite supply thing, uh, within

239
00:15:06,432 --> 00:15:13,062
this, uh, linearly growing, um, every ten minutes, uh, system.

240
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and that's the thing.

241
00:15:14,591 --> 00:15:19,451
Like, any other token or cat jay pig or whatever bullshit arbitrary

242
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data that is on there is not finite.

243
00:15:22,436 --> 00:15:27,556
Not in the way, the Satoshi is not at all like, like not even if you

244
00:15:27,556 --> 00:15:30,436
could attach it to the Satoshi, which you can't by the way.

245
00:15:30,436 --> 00:15:32,026
You can attach it to a transaction

246
00:15:32,486 --> 00:15:36,466
I've spent way too many hours arguing with people over it, and I have

247
00:15:36,796 --> 00:15:38,859
done what you just, articulated.

248
00:15:39,029 --> 00:15:43,569
I have taken myself out of that, I am no longer arguing with anybody on Twitter or

249
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Spaces about those concepts, because it was frustrating me, and I got an actual

250
00:15:48,219 --> 00:15:49,799
life I care about a little bit more.

251
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So, I'm totally with you on this whole thing.

252
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now.

253
00:15:54,060 --> 00:15:57,270
And another thing, yeah, my math was off this morning.

254
00:15:57,300 --> 00:15:57,570
Yeah.

255
00:15:57,570 --> 00:15:58,740
So I apologize for that.

256
00:15:58,740 --> 00:16:05,370
But the point stands like, because halving is every two, uh, 210,000 blocks, right?

257
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:11,180
So every, so 210,000 blocks takes on average four years.

258
00:16:12,223 --> 00:16:18,402
which means, uh, after 400 years, uh, 400 years after 2009, probably

259
00:16:18,402 --> 00:16:22,993
a little earlier since hash rate is going up all the time, uh, there will

260
00:16:22,993 --> 00:16:25,803
be two, 21 million Bitcoin blocks.

261
00:16:27,413 --> 00:16:30,383
Now, there's not a hundred million transactions in each block, so

262
00:16:30,383 --> 00:16:35,903
the time space is not as scarce as the actual Satoshis yet, but the

263
00:16:35,903 --> 00:16:42,873
blocks are less scarce than the bitcoins themselves in the year 2409.

264
00:16:43,218 --> 00:16:44,818
Oh, I see your point.

265
00:16:44,888 --> 00:16:45,458
I get you.

266
00:16:46,068 --> 00:16:49,408
All right, yeah, so there will be more blocks than there were actual Bitcoin

267
00:16:49,408 --> 00:16:51,318
ever created at that point, essentially.

268
00:16:51,768 --> 00:16:53,278
And it will keep going beyond there.

269
00:16:53,338 --> 00:16:54,498
There'll just be more and more.

270
00:16:54,498 --> 00:16:56,898
It'll always be a new record every other block.

271
00:16:57,378 --> 00:17:03,513
In, in, we should add, in all likelihood, yes, but we can never know even if the

272
00:17:03,513 --> 00:17:08,363
next Bitcoin block will ever be found because it's insanely hard to find it.

273
00:17:08,625 --> 00:17:12,905
That's an interesting concept because the difficulty adjustment is supposed

274
00:17:12,925 --> 00:17:18,545
to be statistically probabilistic that somebody absolutely will find a block

275
00:17:18,745 --> 00:17:24,155
around 10 minutes and on average that seems to be what happens and yet, it

276
00:17:24,155 --> 00:17:26,675
could take 5 years to find the next block.

277
00:17:26,845 --> 00:17:27,905
Nobody knows.

278
00:17:28,265 --> 00:17:32,835
In theory, it's crazy to think and nobody would We'd probably get

279
00:17:32,835 --> 00:17:34,655
arguments all day on that one, right?

280
00:17:34,675 --> 00:17:37,505
But in theory, it is possible.

281
00:17:37,565 --> 00:17:41,565
It's also possible to find one block and one millisecond later find another block.

282
00:17:41,905 --> 00:17:45,765
I'm trying to, you know, go back to like college statistics class and bell

283
00:17:45,765 --> 00:17:49,335
curve theory and, you know, trying to figure out what, what makes sense here.

284
00:17:49,615 --> 00:17:51,405
But this is the kind of stuff that I enjoy.

285
00:17:51,605 --> 00:17:53,325
The deep, the deeper thinking.

286
00:17:53,745 --> 00:17:57,355
So, you wouldn't know this, but it took me six months to decide to buy

287
00:17:57,355 --> 00:18:00,405
some Bitcoin after I first realized I really needed to look at it.

288
00:18:00,695 --> 00:18:02,265
So, it was my third touch.

289
00:18:02,555 --> 00:18:05,785
I heard a woman talking about Bitcoin and the fact that you don't need

290
00:18:05,845 --> 00:18:10,995
to trust the protocol, that you can trust the protocol, but not, not have

291
00:18:10,995 --> 00:18:14,085
to trust any of the people you're dealing with in, within the network.

292
00:18:14,085 --> 00:18:16,425
And I went, how do I not have to trust the people?

293
00:18:16,565 --> 00:18:17,925
I could just trust this code.

294
00:18:17,945 --> 00:18:20,855
So, that alone was, because I have a business based on trust.

295
00:18:20,855 --> 00:18:25,010
So I had to look into it, and I spent six months studying what was going

296
00:18:25,010 --> 00:18:28,860
on, so I could understand this from as technical a level as my brain would

297
00:18:28,860 --> 00:18:33,217
allow me to, because it just felt like a, you know, some, you know, uh,

298
00:18:33,387 --> 00:18:38,227
pump and dump, you know, Ponzi scheme kind of thing, how can this be real?

299
00:18:38,247 --> 00:18:40,642
Plus, I didn't Nobody ever taught me about money, right?

300
00:18:40,642 --> 00:18:44,932
So I didn't recognize the significance of a money or a protocol for

301
00:18:44,932 --> 00:18:47,802
money that is permissionless and everything that Bitcoin is.

302
00:18:48,282 --> 00:18:55,712
And so I've always had this perspective of, I want to look deeper into you know,

303
00:18:55,712 --> 00:18:59,402
the incentives and the the game theory.

304
00:18:59,402 --> 00:19:03,097
I love the game theory that That everybody's incentivized

305
00:19:03,147 --> 00:19:04,307
to play by the rules.

306
00:19:04,307 --> 00:19:07,687
You win if you play by the rules, you tend to lose if you try to cheat.

307
00:19:08,077 --> 00:19:11,567
And that's hard to find in, in a lot of life.

308
00:19:11,647 --> 00:19:14,557
It seems like people cheat and get away with it all day long in

309
00:19:15,067 --> 00:19:17,691
fiat world, all around us, you know, and then you find this.

310
00:19:17,852 --> 00:19:21,802
Sort of perfection in this Bitcoin network, and it keeps blowing my mind.

311
00:19:21,802 --> 00:19:25,602
And then I hear you have conversations with these other smart people, and I just

312
00:19:25,602 --> 00:19:27,712
keep thinking, these guys think like me.

313
00:19:27,712 --> 00:19:31,332
Like, where is the secrets in the corners that nobody's really paying attention to

314
00:19:31,372 --> 00:19:33,972
around this, this incredible discovery?

315
00:19:33,972 --> 00:19:34,822
It just blows my mind.

316
00:19:34,982 --> 00:19:35,162
So,

317
00:19:35,957 --> 00:19:40,737
Uh, on Game Theory, there's a recent Veritasium video that is great about

318
00:19:40,832 --> 00:19:41,562
I love those.

319
00:19:41,782 --> 00:19:46,492
Yeah, the, the prisoner's dilemma problem, prisoner's dilemma because,

320
00:19:46,522 --> 00:19:52,612
um, if you play it once, um, if you only play the game once, the correct play

321
00:19:52,612 --> 00:19:54,352
is to try to cheat the other player.

322
00:19:54,832 --> 00:19:58,372
But the, the curious thing is that if, if you play it over and over again,

323
00:19:58,432 --> 00:20:01,732
especially if you don't know how many, how many times you're playing

324
00:20:01,737 --> 00:20:06,822
it, the the best strategy is the, the, so-called tit for tat strategy.

325
00:20:07,403 --> 00:20:11,423
basically, you, you trust the other guy, so you, so you don't rat out

326
00:20:11,423 --> 00:20:16,743
the other prisoner, until he rats you out, and then you get back at

327
00:20:16,743 --> 00:20:20,883
him by ratting him out once, and then you're back to trusting again.

328
00:20:21,340 --> 00:20:26,310
and the, the fact that that is the optimal strategy, if you look at that

329
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:32,540
from an evolutionary biology perspective, It explains cooperation and why being

330
00:20:32,540 --> 00:20:38,030
friendly to one another, especially in a group or a flock or a tribe, is

331
00:20:38,157 --> 00:20:41,717
evolutionary beneficial, like, for every

332
00:20:41,922 --> 00:20:45,822
interesting, what you just said is interesting because it postulates

333
00:20:45,872 --> 00:20:48,142
that both people understand this.

334
00:20:48,202 --> 00:20:49,152
That is to say,

335
00:20:49,327 --> 00:20:54,227
No, no, no, no, like, from an evolutionary perspective, both people

336
00:20:54,227 --> 00:20:57,527
don't need to know it, it's just that their likelihood of survival

337
00:20:57,527 --> 00:20:59,217
is higher if they act that way.

338
00:20:59,562 --> 00:21:05,925
Okay, so, so, would you say that humans recognize the pattern after

339
00:21:05,925 --> 00:21:07,735
they started acting that way?

340
00:21:07,785 --> 00:21:13,275
Or recognize the pattern when people tried to cheat first and

341
00:21:13,275 --> 00:21:15,795
then theorize that if we don't?

342
00:21:15,835 --> 00:21:19,380
Like, cause I'm thinking Each person would have to have the thought in their

343
00:21:19,380 --> 00:21:23,640
head, Okay, as long as they don't act negatively towards me, and I don't act

344
00:21:23,690 --> 00:21:25,630
negatively towards them, we both win.

345
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,240
If both people know that, they will always accept that as long as the

346
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,930
other guy doesn't do anything, I also won't do anything, because

347
00:21:31,930 --> 00:21:33,300
I'm on the opposite side of that.

348
00:21:33,770 --> 00:21:34,470
Equation.

349
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:41,220
Okay, like, this is so much broader than just that, that specific.

350
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,540
Prisoner's Dilemma type game, but there are very many similar games in nature.

351
00:21:46,060 --> 00:21:51,200
Like, uh, so for instance, the Veritasium video, I think the example

352
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:57,720
he gives is antelopes, um, you know, scratching ticks off each other's backs.

353
00:21:58,290 --> 00:22:01,650
And when they do that, there's a risk that they get infected by the tick that

354
00:22:01,650 --> 00:22:04,060
they are removing from the other antelope.

355
00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:06,460
But it's good for the flock.

356
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,330
So, so, and if they do that, there's a chance that another

357
00:22:10,330 --> 00:22:11,990
Antelope will do that on them.

358
00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:16,180
And so, so it's sort of like a Prisoner's type, Prisoner's Dilemma type game.

359
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:21,150
So if you only do it once, like there's no point in removing the tick from the other

360
00:22:21,150 --> 00:22:22,980
Antelope if you only play the game once.

361
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,150
Because you, you, yeah, so,

362
00:22:25,250 --> 00:22:28,470
I think I saw this video, to be honest, because it's coming back to me.

363
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:29,810
That sounds familiar.

364
00:22:29,810 --> 00:22:30,500
I'm trying to remember.

365
00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:32,180
I watch that guy's videos all the time.

366
00:22:32,180 --> 00:22:32,610
He's good.

367
00:22:32,620 --> 00:22:32,990
I have

368
00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:37,170
and this, the, the other thing he tried, like he applies it to, uh, the

369
00:22:37,170 --> 00:22:41,220
Cuba crisis, missile crisis, and, and, you know, the threat of nuclear war,

370
00:22:41,220 --> 00:22:45,920
you, the, the reason we don't bomb the shit out of one another is because, the

371
00:22:45,950 --> 00:22:47,640
tit for tat strategy is the best one.

372
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,960
So we choose to like, or the US and the Soviet trusted.

373
00:22:52,675 --> 00:22:56,885
chose to not be the first, um, first mover.

374
00:22:57,175 --> 00:23:00,585
So, like, the, the non ag To me, this sounds like, like, the non

375
00:23:00,585 --> 00:23:05,032
aggression principle is actually evolutionary advantageous, on,

376
00:23:05,072 --> 00:23:06,732
on certain scales, at least.

377
00:23:07,082 --> 00:23:12,142
So, the thing is, I, I don't think that the players have to know about this.

378
00:23:12,172 --> 00:23:16,152
I think this is, like, behavior that emerges just because your

379
00:23:16,152 --> 00:23:19,932
rate of, your, uh, chances of survival are higher if you do this.

380
00:23:20,232 --> 00:23:22,142
If you, if you play this game this way.

381
00:23:22,482 --> 00:23:23,322
Or similar games.

382
00:23:24,187 --> 00:23:27,607
a question for you that just, I wasn't even thinking of this until you just

383
00:23:27,617 --> 00:23:31,076
triggered that, but, um, I say this thing all the time that Bitcoin is

384
00:23:31,077 --> 00:23:33,287
incentivized for individuals, not groups.

385
00:23:34,087 --> 00:23:40,857
And I think about, how does a group of people, humans, me, us three,

386
00:23:40,897 --> 00:23:48,995
or government, or anybody else, Combined control over the ability

387
00:23:49,035 --> 00:23:54,055
to alter the Bitcoin ledger, because we know a secret that is attached to

388
00:23:54,055 --> 00:23:55,855
some Bitcoins on the ledger, right?

389
00:23:55,855 --> 00:24:00,625
So we as a group can say to the Bitcoin network, we're going to move this

390
00:24:00,665 --> 00:24:02,110
Bitcoin, we're going to spend it.

391
00:24:02,290 --> 00:24:05,860
So I think about this, people all, all day long talk about how

392
00:24:05,860 --> 00:24:07,590
governments need to adopt Bitcoin.

393
00:24:07,620 --> 00:24:09,420
So governments are just groups of people.

394
00:24:09,710 --> 00:24:14,260
And then I think, okay, if this group of people gets control to collectively,

395
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,850
somehow they're going to not cheat each other, but they're going to

396
00:24:16,850 --> 00:24:20,490
collectively get some control of some UTXOs within the Bitcoin network.

397
00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:25,090
How does that benefit any of the constituents of that, of that group?

398
00:24:25,250 --> 00:24:27,230
Uh, so government owns some Bitcoin.

399
00:24:28,020 --> 00:24:29,000
What does that do for me?

400
00:24:29,630 --> 00:24:31,650
Nothing, unless they spend it on me.

401
00:24:32,253 --> 00:24:35,633
people have argued with me, well, look at El Salvador, how much better it is.

402
00:24:35,683 --> 00:24:38,253
I say, well, that's a philosophical thing.

403
00:24:38,253 --> 00:24:42,333
You have a man who came into power who believes in Bitcoin and also believes in

404
00:24:42,333 --> 00:24:45,823
freedom and also recognizes this gang's all over the place and people are dying.

405
00:24:46,063 --> 00:24:47,583
So let's fix a couple problems.

406
00:24:47,733 --> 00:24:49,423
Bitcoin didn't fix those problems.

407
00:24:49,923 --> 00:24:52,633
People did that were incentivized to fix problems.

408
00:24:52,683 --> 00:24:54,383
They also happened to own Bitcoin.

409
00:24:55,093 --> 00:24:58,373
I'm really curious, what do you think about this idea that governments

410
00:24:58,373 --> 00:25:02,393
owning Bitcoin don't help the citizens of the country unless

411
00:25:02,393 --> 00:25:04,453
they spend it on those citizens?

412
00:25:04,783 --> 00:25:09,683
Or, if you want to back your currency with Bitcoin, you still have the problem of,

413
00:25:09,833 --> 00:25:11,793
well, how much currency units are there?

414
00:25:11,893 --> 00:25:15,243
Uh, you could prove how much Bitcoin you control, but that doesn't mean

415
00:25:15,373 --> 00:25:17,233
you can't still inflate the currency.

416
00:25:17,723 --> 00:25:24,978
Uh, I don't see how backing a fiat currency Can be known by everybody,

417
00:25:25,308 --> 00:25:28,118
unless you can know how many units of the fiat are out there.

418
00:25:28,558 --> 00:25:31,948
And to back the existing amount of dollars in the world, they'd need to, you know,

419
00:25:31,978 --> 00:25:34,108
the value of a single bitcoin be billions.

420
00:25:34,988 --> 00:25:38,778
So I'm just curious, do people, this is my question, do the citizens

421
00:25:38,778 --> 00:25:41,738
of a nation benefit when a small group of people called government

422
00:25:41,738 --> 00:25:43,168
own bitcoin in their name?

423
00:25:43,530 --> 00:25:49,880
Well, yeah, there's many, many, many sided answer to that question, like

424
00:25:50,220 --> 00:25:57,170
the, if a government, say 20 people really, you know, do Bitcoin properly

425
00:25:57,170 --> 00:26:01,270
and, and have a multi sig or something, and not just a custodial solution,

426
00:26:01,850 --> 00:26:08,970
um, so that Bitcoin, uh, then those Bitcoins are taken off the market.

427
00:26:09,540 --> 00:26:14,440
So, the number of coins in circulation is slightly smaller,

428
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,400
and therefore, numbers go up.

429
00:26:17,115 --> 00:26:19,335
That's a good, that's a good angle to look at it.

430
00:26:19,345 --> 00:26:24,865
So, okay, that's one benefit, indirect benefit, but I'm, I'm more curious about

431
00:26:24,865 --> 00:26:30,585
the perspective that people feel that the government entity or the country

432
00:26:30,585 --> 00:26:34,755
that the government represents gets stronger and better and safer because

433
00:26:34,785 --> 00:26:39,075
this small group of people own some Bitcoin, and I see it as, well, it can

434
00:26:39,075 --> 00:26:43,045
only be used if it's spent for goods and services, and then it's gone.

435
00:26:43,045 --> 00:26:45,165
That's And so they don't have it anymore.

436
00:26:45,417 --> 00:26:47,307
Here's a praxeological perspective.

437
00:26:47,647 --> 00:26:49,117
Money is never idle.

438
00:26:49,597 --> 00:26:54,967
It's always giving its owner some type of service.

439
00:26:55,423 --> 00:26:58,053
but this is from an individual perspective, but it would be

440
00:26:58,053 --> 00:27:02,803
true for a group of 20 people, 20 criminals, like a government as well.

441
00:27:03,183 --> 00:27:09,218
So, um But from an individual perspective, having wealth means that you can

442
00:27:09,218 --> 00:27:11,068
allow yourself to do other stuff.

443
00:27:11,088 --> 00:27:13,888
You can allow yourself to take bigger risks because you have

444
00:27:13,888 --> 00:27:15,058
something to fall back on.

445
00:27:15,378 --> 00:27:19,568
So that, I guess that's the thing, like, you can afford to take more

446
00:27:19,568 --> 00:27:24,735
risk because your money is giving you the ability to take higher risks.

447
00:27:25,505 --> 00:27:28,905
In your decisions, because you know you have a backup plan.

448
00:27:29,255 --> 00:27:35,105
So, how does that, how does that relate to a group of people called government and

449
00:27:35,135 --> 00:27:40,665
their, their abilities to service their constituents or protect their constituents

450
00:27:40,665 --> 00:27:42,745
through armies and things like that?

451
00:27:42,755 --> 00:27:47,295
So again, I'm just curious, like, I can't fathom, I still can't grasp my head

452
00:27:47,295 --> 00:27:51,295
around the fact that if our government owned lots of Bitcoin, what are they

453
00:27:51,305 --> 00:27:54,925
going to do, how are they going to use that to improve the lives of Americans?

454
00:27:55,335 --> 00:27:56,595
They're supposed to be our representatives.

455
00:27:57,455 --> 00:27:58,965
And what do they use it on?

456
00:27:59,712 --> 00:28:05,072
feel like in a world where Bitcoin is everyone's money, wars and armies Reduce

457
00:28:05,072 --> 00:28:08,872
down to little villages that protect themselves and trade with each other

458
00:28:08,872 --> 00:28:13,302
and cities start to dissipate away and governments become smaller and smaller.

459
00:28:13,302 --> 00:28:17,982
I just don't, it feels like the inability to maintain a giant federal

460
00:28:17,982 --> 00:28:22,042
government like we have in many countries of the world goes away.

461
00:28:22,367 --> 00:28:28,187
When they are limited on the way their ability to spend money, uh, they spend

462
00:28:28,187 --> 00:28:30,117
money because they can keep making money.

463
00:28:30,117 --> 00:28:33,737
And so they could buy things, including people, media, whoever,

464
00:28:33,787 --> 00:28:35,967
to stay in line and protect them.

465
00:28:37,367 --> 00:28:40,817
The government only stays, like, the people that are destroying the world,

466
00:28:41,077 --> 00:28:44,157
pedophiles all over the place, are only not in jail because they have

467
00:28:44,207 --> 00:28:48,537
people with guns pointing them outward at us and protecting these people

468
00:28:48,567 --> 00:28:49,757
because they get paid really well.

469
00:28:50,672 --> 00:28:52,922
It's just all tied to this, it just blows my mind.

470
00:28:53,192 --> 00:28:56,062
As soon as that same group of people can't make money out of thin air,

471
00:28:56,382 --> 00:28:58,702
they're not just, they're just not going to be able to pay for all this stuff.

472
00:28:59,072 --> 00:29:01,642
Unless they can keep getting in more money, and they can't steal it.

473
00:29:02,422 --> 00:29:03,682
So, so, you know what I mean?

474
00:29:04,008 --> 00:29:07,848
Here's how the government owning bitcoin is good for the people then.

475
00:29:08,178 --> 00:29:14,498
Because, so say, instead of having a money printer, which means they can

476
00:29:14,778 --> 00:29:18,458
perpetually steal from absolutely everyone to pay for fucking wars.

477
00:29:19,098 --> 00:29:20,648
Uh, and other clown world shit.

478
00:29:21,072 --> 00:29:25,612
if the government had, um, a stack of bitcoin, uh, the rich men north

479
00:29:25,612 --> 00:29:29,242
of Richmond now have, uh, you know, 4, 000 bitcoins or something.

480
00:29:29,788 --> 00:29:33,988
the only way for them to personally gain something from having

481
00:29:33,988 --> 00:29:36,338
those bitcoins is to spend them.

482
00:29:37,358 --> 00:29:40,258
And that has to be voluntary, that has to be consensual.

483
00:29:40,608 --> 00:29:43,018
Like, they have to spend them on goods and services.

484
00:29:43,813 --> 00:29:46,543
So they have to give them to the people at some point.

485
00:29:46,573 --> 00:29:52,193
Otherwise, they, they, the bitcoins don't do anything for, uh, except like,

486
00:29:52,353 --> 00:29:56,633
as I said, maybe they give this group a bit, a sense of security so they can

487
00:29:56,633 --> 00:30:00,783
take higher risks, but at the end of the day, you can't manipulate bitcoins

488
00:30:00,823 --> 00:30:04,823
like you can manipulate fiat markets, like, so, so, sooner or later you will

489
00:30:04,833 --> 00:30:09,663
have to spend them on people's goods and services, and thereby, this is the

490
00:30:09,663 --> 00:30:14,657
thing, this is, this is, A wonderful paradoxical thing about Bitcoin.

491
00:30:14,667 --> 00:30:19,083
If you look at, on chain statistics, you can see the addresses with, uh, I

492
00:30:19,083 --> 00:30:22,163
make this point all the time, by the way, addresses with one Bitcoin or

493
00:30:22,163 --> 00:30:26,123
less in them are growing in numbers and addresses with 10, 000 Bitcoins

494
00:30:26,123 --> 00:30:28,183
or more are shrinking in numbers.

495
00:30:28,553 --> 00:30:34,173
So it's actually redistributing wealth by being the most anarcho

496
00:30:34,213 --> 00:30:35,823
capitalistic system ever made.

497
00:30:36,018 --> 00:30:39,228
This is exactly what I believe is going to happen, and this is why I

498
00:30:39,228 --> 00:30:42,768
believe governments cannot sustain themselves at the levels they are.

499
00:30:42,778 --> 00:30:46,018
Giant armies are not going to exist in the future, because

500
00:30:46,048 --> 00:30:49,318
nobody will just voluntarily spend their money in that direction.

501
00:30:49,588 --> 00:30:52,828
They'll want to protect themselves and their neighborhoods, and they're not

502
00:30:52,828 --> 00:30:55,188
going to care about what's going on on the other side of the world like it

503
00:30:55,188 --> 00:30:57,068
used to be earlier in human history.

504
00:30:57,088 --> 00:30:59,948
Like, it, it, it, no, I agree.

505
00:30:59,978 --> 00:31:00,508
I think.

506
00:31:01,258 --> 00:31:06,158
If a group of people called government gets control of a lot of Bitcoin, the

507
00:31:06,158 --> 00:31:09,528
only thing they can use them for to enrich themselves or anybody else is to

508
00:31:09,598 --> 00:31:11,218
get rid of them for goods and service.

509
00:31:11,268 --> 00:31:12,818
They have to spend them, like you just said.

510
00:31:13,218 --> 00:31:15,968
And that definitely spreads the wealth around the world.

511
00:31:15,998 --> 00:31:18,288
I say the same thing about somebody like Michael Saylor.

512
00:31:18,568 --> 00:31:20,798
Let's say he dies and leaves his Bitcoin behind.

513
00:31:20,828 --> 00:31:23,018
He doesn't give it to the network, which I've heard he might do.

514
00:31:23,268 --> 00:31:27,673
Point is, if some other human gets them, They're going to look at them differently.

515
00:31:27,693 --> 00:31:28,773
They didn't earn them.

516
00:31:28,993 --> 00:31:30,783
They might whoop it up and start spending them.

517
00:31:30,823 --> 00:31:32,573
They are going to get dispersed.

518
00:31:32,573 --> 00:31:34,353
You leave them to your kids, your grandkids.

519
00:31:34,663 --> 00:31:36,483
They're going to do something different than you.

520
00:31:36,483 --> 00:31:38,013
They might not huddle as strong.

521
00:31:38,433 --> 00:31:42,663
And I just believe over time it will, what will happen is they'll get dispersed

522
00:31:42,993 --> 00:31:46,953
and they will continue to move around and they will always be attracted towards.

523
00:31:47,283 --> 00:31:49,743
The highest level of value in society.

524
00:31:49,953 --> 00:31:53,613
Those people bring in the, the best goods and services will attract

525
00:31:53,643 --> 00:31:58,353
more Bitcoin to themselves and they will be the wealthier in society.

526
00:31:58,353 --> 00:32:01,953
They'll always be poor and wealthy, but the wealthy will have gotten their

527
00:32:01,953 --> 00:32:06,873
wealth through honor and service and good production because otherwise

528
00:32:06,878 --> 00:32:08,043
no one will give them their Bitcoin.

529
00:32:08,188 --> 00:32:09,883
That Bitcoin, right?

530
00:32:09,883 --> 00:32:11,683
The whole world gets on a Bitcoin.

531
00:32:11,743 --> 00:32:12,343
Am I right?

532
00:32:12,343 --> 00:32:12,493
Are

533
00:32:12,873 --> 00:32:13,873
absolutely.

534
00:32:14,063 --> 00:32:14,333
right.

535
00:32:15,313 --> 00:32:20,123
So, so Jim, like a slight Slight, slight, um, uh, add on to that,

536
00:32:20,373 --> 00:32:24,333
like they will either get dispersed among the other Bitcoiners or

537
00:32:24,333 --> 00:32:25,573
they're taken off the market.

538
00:32:25,903 --> 00:32:28,393
Both those things are good for other Bitcoiners.

539
00:32:29,083 --> 00:32:29,843
Absolutely.

540
00:32:29,923 --> 00:32:30,033
I

541
00:32:30,153 --> 00:32:33,783
Like the, the thing Saylor talks about on this show, by the way, uh,

542
00:32:33,813 --> 00:32:37,453
it was like taking them off the market forever, which is also good for,

543
00:32:37,453 --> 00:32:39,783
uh, as long as they're divisible.

544
00:32:40,213 --> 00:32:41,453
That's good for everyone else.

545
00:32:41,583 --> 00:32:42,193
True, true.

546
00:32:42,303 --> 00:32:44,893
Well, they are infinitely divisible.

547
00:32:44,893 --> 00:32:46,653
It might require a code change, but

548
00:32:46,898 --> 00:32:50,798
Well, they're not infinitely divisible on chain, but, uh, on layer 2.

549
00:32:51,248 --> 00:32:55,398
so, yeah, yeah, okay, for, uh, governments versus individuals, love

550
00:32:55,398 --> 00:33:02,118
this, like, uh, individuals, honest individuals, deal in, they trade goods.

551
00:33:02,488 --> 00:33:03,348
And services.

552
00:33:04,348 --> 00:33:08,458
Governments trade So there's a free market for goods and services,

553
00:33:08,478 --> 00:33:12,828
which means that all goods drop to their marginal cost of production

554
00:33:13,178 --> 00:33:15,668
in a, uh, in a sound money system.

555
00:33:16,148 --> 00:33:19,438
Like, everything gets cheaper and better over time if the free

556
00:33:19,438 --> 00:33:22,088
market is allowed to do its thing.

557
00:33:22,658 --> 00:33:26,158
Governments deal in bads rather than goods.

558
00:33:26,973 --> 00:33:34,153
So the, the, the worst wins, , you know, it's a free market in bads, uh, uh, but

559
00:33:34,153 --> 00:33:37,963
on a Bitcoin standard, they will have to deal with goods instead of bads.

560
00:33:38,053 --> 00:33:39,943
That's, that's, that's the way I see it.

561
00:33:40,377 --> 00:33:41,327
Yeah, no, I hear that.

562
00:33:41,367 --> 00:33:41,667
I agree.

563
00:33:41,667 --> 00:33:44,277
I think it realigns incentives.

564
00:33:44,347 --> 00:33:47,827
And this is why I keep saying Bitcoin is incentivized for individuals, because

565
00:33:48,387 --> 00:33:52,927
groups of people still each Person in the group still makes individual choices.

566
00:33:52,937 --> 00:33:55,797
Sometimes they align with that group, and sometimes they don't.

567
00:33:56,097 --> 00:33:58,257
And sometimes the other group members don't know.

568
00:33:58,667 --> 00:34:01,947
So even within governments, we know that some of those people in governments are

569
00:34:01,987 --> 00:34:06,317
honorable, and many of them are not, but they're still part of the same group.

570
00:34:06,417 --> 00:34:10,267
And so, I still think individuals I look at it this way.

571
00:34:10,277 --> 00:34:14,692
If you're an enforcer You know, work for the military, you're a judge, a

572
00:34:14,692 --> 00:34:18,112
prosecutor, a police officer, you're working for the state, you're getting

573
00:34:18,112 --> 00:34:21,582
paid by this giant mechanism, and they pay well to keep you loyal.

574
00:34:22,012 --> 00:34:25,372
But when the money they give you starts not buying what it used to, which is

575
00:34:25,372 --> 00:34:28,812
already happening, but when there's a really clear alternative, which is

576
00:34:28,822 --> 00:34:30,072
not clear to most people, Bitcoin.

577
00:34:30,997 --> 00:34:34,377
Uh, some of these enforcers, and we already see it, some politicians and

578
00:34:34,417 --> 00:34:38,887
some people are recognizing, you know, for myself, this is a good thing, and

579
00:34:38,887 --> 00:34:43,127
because I'm in a position of power to make a change, potentially, I should tell

580
00:34:43,127 --> 00:34:48,177
everybody else, or I should use my, uh, influence, right, to write a rule in,

581
00:34:48,237 --> 00:34:49,537
in government or something like that.

582
00:34:49,787 --> 00:34:53,917
And so I just think, slowly, the individual incentive will override the

583
00:34:53,947 --> 00:34:57,077
group incentive, the incentive to stay loyal to the group, when the group,

584
00:34:57,407 --> 00:35:00,447
when it becomes obvious that the group is not really looking out for me.

585
00:35:00,992 --> 00:35:04,152
And so I just feel like this is a couple generation change.

586
00:35:04,152 --> 00:35:07,542
I don't know that I'm going to see this, but I feel like over a long enough period

587
00:35:07,542 --> 00:35:11,922
of time, assuming Bitcoin doesn't break, and assuming it can be scaled up so that

588
00:35:11,922 --> 00:35:16,342
everybody can use it as hard money, I feel like the world just keeps getting better.

589
00:35:16,342 --> 00:35:18,812
I'm not the only one that says this, and I know you believe the same thing.

590
00:35:18,852 --> 00:35:20,022
Bitcoin fixes a lot of stuff.

591
00:35:20,292 --> 00:35:21,992
And I just think that's kind of how it does it.

592
00:35:22,556 --> 00:35:22,916
Yeah.

593
00:35:22,916 --> 00:35:23,186
Yeah.

594
00:35:23,191 --> 00:35:24,116
I tend to agree.

595
00:35:24,146 --> 00:35:28,576
Like I, I think like the way to see this is that Bitcoin, the, the

596
00:35:28,576 --> 00:35:35,979
best thing for the larger group, which is humanity, uh, is that Every

597
00:35:35,979 --> 00:35:39,329
individual is not aggressed against.

598
00:35:39,699 --> 00:35:43,549
That every individual has the right to be left alone and only does

599
00:35:43,989 --> 00:35:49,609
stuff, trades his goods and services voluntarily and with consent with others.

600
00:35:50,324 --> 00:35:53,584
That will lead to a better outcome for everyone in that group.

601
00:35:53,974 --> 00:35:58,324
It might not lead to a better outcome temporarily for a smaller sub group,

602
00:35:58,644 --> 00:36:04,104
like a mafia, or a government, or like a football hooligans, or whatever, you know,

603
00:36:04,344 --> 00:36:08,614
tribal in group, some religious group that just wants to blow the other guys up.

604
00:36:09,694 --> 00:36:15,149
That doesn't matter, like, uh Those, that kind of group thing doesn't work anymore.

605
00:36:15,159 --> 00:36:18,659
The only group, the only group we now belong to is humanity

606
00:36:18,659 --> 00:36:20,229
on a whole, as a whole.

607
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,849
And the best thing for that group is individualism.

608
00:36:25,429 --> 00:36:26,459
It always was.

609
00:36:26,489 --> 00:36:30,189
And you can logically deduct yourself to that conclusion.

610
00:36:31,649 --> 00:36:33,139
Yeah, read Praxeology.

611
00:36:33,829 --> 00:36:36,049
I, I've listened to your book.

612
00:36:36,109 --> 00:36:39,609
I, I've listened to more Guy Swan in my ears telling me

613
00:36:39,609 --> 00:36:41,319
about Bitcoin than anybody else.

614
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,779
Because I've listened to, pretty much, I don't, I don't read as often as I listen

615
00:36:45,799 --> 00:36:49,699
to, uh, so I have an Audible account and I've listened to, I think, every one of

616
00:36:49,699 --> 00:36:51,629
your books over the last couple years.

617
00:36:52,074 --> 00:36:55,704
Uh, praxeology I just listened to like a week ago, because I knew we were going

618
00:36:55,704 --> 00:36:57,524
to be talking, so, I mean, I love it.

619
00:36:57,774 --> 00:37:02,074
I learned about praxeology a couple years back when I listened to Human

620
00:37:02,074 --> 00:37:04,914
Action on audio, which takes days.

621
00:37:05,064 --> 00:37:06,184
It's frickin really

622
00:37:06,319 --> 00:37:06,879
hours, I

623
00:37:07,234 --> 00:37:10,194
Yeah, it's, I think it's 50 some odd or whatever, it's really long.

624
00:37:10,304 --> 00:37:13,859
But, you know, whatever, it's, uh, it, it, I You know, as part of me going

625
00:37:13,859 --> 00:37:17,529
down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, I didn't even know it existed until I met people

626
00:37:17,529 --> 00:37:19,159
like Saifedean and I started to learn.

627
00:37:19,539 --> 00:37:23,079
I've listened to his book on economics, the same thing that he's doing a

628
00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:27,519
course on, you know, and all of it, you know, it just makes sense.

629
00:37:27,519 --> 00:37:32,179
I see people argue all day long who don't understand praxeology

630
00:37:32,179 --> 00:37:33,839
and subjective valuation, you know.

631
00:37:34,059 --> 00:37:37,339
Like, I had a big argument with some people recently that People wanted

632
00:37:37,339 --> 00:37:41,549
to say that the value of things is in the things, you know, but it's not.

633
00:37:41,549 --> 00:37:42,639
It's in people's heads.

634
00:37:42,639 --> 00:37:46,619
And, you know, you, you recognize this, you know, there is nothing that actually

635
00:37:46,619 --> 00:37:51,739
has intrinsic value, even though there's a word called intrinsic value, right?

636
00:37:51,739 --> 00:37:56,969
It's, but you It's hard because people don't know, they don't understand

637
00:37:56,969 --> 00:38:00,839
that humans act, like, first and foremost, that humans act, and we act

638
00:38:00,849 --> 00:38:02,659
to remove current or future uneasiness.

639
00:38:03,209 --> 00:38:07,909
Like, every minute of every day, we're essentially making choices to

640
00:38:07,909 --> 00:38:09,819
remove current or future uneasiness.

641
00:38:10,209 --> 00:38:17,449
Us talking is to remove current uneasiness about These ideas, not that they're even

642
00:38:17,489 --> 00:38:23,589
uneasy, but we want to explore them, so it's a desire to gain new knowledge.

643
00:38:23,749 --> 00:38:28,459
It's correcting something that we didn't have an hour ago, or something like,

644
00:38:28,689 --> 00:38:32,119
we didn't have this conversation, we both knew we were going to have it,

645
00:38:32,129 --> 00:38:35,229
we both anticipated some value in it.

646
00:38:35,579 --> 00:38:40,479
So we plan to remove some uneasiness from the past by having this conversation, so

647
00:38:40,479 --> 00:38:46,439
that we can grow our lives and, and, and think deeper about our, our world, right?

648
00:38:46,439 --> 00:38:51,309
Like, it just is so natural that this aligns with these

649
00:38:51,339 --> 00:38:53,989
definitions and people don't even have a clue that it's out there.

650
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:55,309
And yet they're doing it!

651
00:38:55,379 --> 00:38:56,439
Like, they are!

652
00:38:57,224 --> 00:39:00,194
Making choices every day to remove current and future uneasiness.

653
00:39:00,244 --> 00:39:04,424
They are literally acting as an individual subjectively valuing of all

654
00:39:04,424 --> 00:39:05,794
the things they care about in life.

655
00:39:06,104 --> 00:39:07,464
What do I do tomorrow?

656
00:39:07,464 --> 00:39:08,864
What do I do five minutes from now?

657
00:39:09,914 --> 00:39:13,384
And I try to explain this to people as I'm trying to explain

658
00:39:13,754 --> 00:39:15,574
concepts around Bitcoin or whatever.

659
00:39:15,574 --> 00:39:17,364
However, it might tie into a conversation.

660
00:39:17,644 --> 00:39:19,804
And it gets people going like, no, that doesn't make sense.

661
00:39:19,804 --> 00:39:22,335
I'm like, yeah, you just got to think about it for a little while.

662
00:39:22,335 --> 00:39:23,064
So, I don't know.

663
00:39:23,564 --> 00:39:26,634
I love when you talk about this stuff, and I just wanted this

664
00:39:26,704 --> 00:39:30,004
opportunity to go back and forth with you on some of these deep concepts.

665
00:39:30,569 --> 00:39:34,779
yeah, love it, and I haven't promoted the Praxeology book enough, I think,

666
00:39:34,779 --> 00:39:39,719
so, like, if you want to learn about Praxeology, look up my book on it,

667
00:39:39,759 --> 00:39:43,299
because, like, I really enjoyed writing it, and I hope you liked it, Jim.

668
00:39:43,554 --> 00:39:44,274
It's great.

669
00:39:44,274 --> 00:39:48,094
Dude, they're all, all your books are fantastic, and they all come at

670
00:39:48,094 --> 00:39:51,964
Bitcoin and these larger concepts from slightly different angles.

671
00:39:52,244 --> 00:39:56,384
The Praxeology book is great, because it's all about human action, and it defines

672
00:39:56,384 --> 00:40:00,214
a lot of things, and, like, catalactics, who's ever heard of that word, you know?

673
00:40:00,254 --> 00:40:05,944
So, uh, it's just, I, I, I got a lot to learn about it, honestly, like

674
00:40:06,274 --> 00:40:10,784
I can't always keep it straight in my head how things align within the

675
00:40:10,864 --> 00:40:16,484
theories, but I understand it enough that I think it's helped me navigate

676
00:40:16,484 --> 00:40:20,414
my own life, helped me understand other people and how other people act,

677
00:40:20,414 --> 00:40:22,584
you know, why people do what they do.

678
00:40:22,604 --> 00:40:24,724
I mean, it's a crazy world we're in.

679
00:40:25,219 --> 00:40:27,519
Did you find reading human action hard?

680
00:40:28,464 --> 00:40:33,014
Well, again, I didn't, I didn't read it because I have dyslexia,

681
00:40:33,139 --> 00:40:34,759
but listen to it.

682
00:40:34,919 --> 00:40:39,689
Like, did you find listening to it hard, or was it pleasurable?

683
00:40:40,234 --> 00:40:44,684
It was hard because I was just learning the concepts, so I was constantly

684
00:40:44,684 --> 00:40:50,114
rewinding, and I, I tried to listen to things at faster than 1x, so I could

685
00:40:50,114 --> 00:40:54,014
get them done and use my time more efficiently, and I had to go slower

686
00:40:54,014 --> 00:40:57,884
with that because the concepts were too deep for me, so I was just learning.

687
00:40:58,114 --> 00:41:00,904
Probably if I went and did it now, it would, I'd breeze through it, because

688
00:41:01,164 --> 00:41:04,904
it's going to be more familiar, but, yeah, I took on, like, one of the deepest

689
00:41:04,914 --> 00:41:09,574
books ever written about, you know, Austrian economics, as the, First, that's

690
00:41:09,574 --> 00:41:14,934
sort of one of the very first things I wanted to learn the ideas out of.

691
00:41:14,944 --> 00:41:17,604
So yeah, I mean, I wish I had taken these books first because that

692
00:41:17,604 --> 00:41:19,324
would have made it easier to learn.

693
00:41:19,784 --> 00:41:24,474
Uh, Mises is, uh, you know, he has some deep thinking in that and there's so many,

694
00:41:24,604 --> 00:41:27,874
I really need to go back because it's such a good book and it's so deep and

695
00:41:27,874 --> 00:41:32,434
there's so many things that would help me process the world better if I understood

696
00:41:32,434 --> 00:41:35,704
them better, if they were more intuitive, you know, like we can only keep so many

697
00:41:35,724 --> 00:41:40,584
things in our, in our brain, in our focus when we're conscious, looking at things.

698
00:41:40,584 --> 00:41:43,824
And even though we know information, sometimes it's not present

699
00:41:43,834 --> 00:41:45,264
in our head to make a choice.

700
00:41:45,894 --> 00:41:52,249
And, you know, the deeper important principles are, first principles, the

701
00:41:52,269 --> 00:41:57,379
deeper they're in your brain to where they're second nature, the more often they

702
00:41:57,379 --> 00:42:00,599
will become recalled for you to use them.

703
00:42:01,339 --> 00:42:02,749
Does that sound reasonable?

704
00:42:03,849 --> 00:42:07,229
you're gonna love our episode with Fulker, I'm just saying, like, when

705
00:42:07,299 --> 00:42:07,959
I can't wait.

706
00:42:08,139 --> 00:42:10,819
like, you need to listen to that after this, because,

707
00:42:10,879 --> 00:42:13,479
So that's good that I said that and I haven't listened and you're saying

708
00:42:13,599 --> 00:42:17,829
no, because that's gonna, like, blow your mind, I promise you.

709
00:42:19,019 --> 00:42:20,979
Because it flips all of this on its head.

710
00:42:21,194 --> 00:42:24,554
Somewhat, but then you think deeper about it and then again, it doesn't.

711
00:42:24,734 --> 00:42:28,164
It's just that the driver's seat is not where you think it is

712
00:42:29,399 --> 00:42:30,259
That's a good one.

713
00:42:30,959 --> 00:42:31,579
Oh boy.

714
00:42:31,791 --> 00:42:36,801
Yeah, so so yeah I've listened to human action twice and I absolutely

715
00:42:36,801 --> 00:42:39,901
loved it loved it even more the second time like every sentence It's

716
00:42:39,951 --> 00:42:42,671
it's so dense and so well written.

717
00:42:42,671 --> 00:42:44,171
It's ridiculous, but he

718
00:42:44,196 --> 00:42:45,116
a good way to put it.

719
00:42:45,386 --> 00:42:48,036
Yeah, and he writes like a German, for sure.

720
00:42:48,086 --> 00:42:51,576
Like, there's long sentences with the correct word everywhere.

721
00:42:52,516 --> 00:42:57,186
So it can take a while to plow through the sentences, but it's absolutely worth it.

722
00:42:57,186 --> 00:42:58,196
I absolutely love it.

723
00:42:58,666 --> 00:43:02,956
Dense is a good word, but I would, I would also, I had this impression

724
00:43:02,956 --> 00:43:04,776
that there wasn't a word out of place.

725
00:43:04,796 --> 00:43:06,256
There wasn't a wasted word.

726
00:43:06,526 --> 00:43:07,346
No, exactly.

727
00:43:07,456 --> 00:43:10,866
It's super efficient, I guess, or something like to,

728
00:43:11,126 --> 00:43:12,296
especially with deep concepts.

729
00:43:12,296 --> 00:43:15,746
Like you said, some of the sentences are long, but they require that

730
00:43:15,746 --> 00:43:19,596
amount of words to get the proper perspective on the thought, you

731
00:43:19,691 --> 00:43:24,031
Yeah, and praxeology, that was the hardest part about writing about praxeology

732
00:43:24,041 --> 00:43:28,761
is that you can't just, like when I wrote the Bitcoin books, I have more

733
00:43:28,761 --> 00:43:33,001
flexibility, I can just wing it and just throw a thought out there and do what

734
00:43:33,001 --> 00:43:38,336
you wish with it, like it doesn't have to be that Thorough and clever and stuff.

735
00:43:38,406 --> 00:43:42,846
It could be more, more Deepak Chopra ish, for lack of a better word.

736
00:43:43,126 --> 00:43:45,676
Like, uh, but praxeology can't.

737
00:43:45,686 --> 00:43:47,326
It has to be rigid as fuck.

738
00:43:47,356 --> 00:43:50,126
Like, it, it can't have any mistakes at all.

739
00:43:50,146 --> 00:43:54,106
You have to use the correct word and, like Really flesh it out.

740
00:43:54,136 --> 00:43:54,466
How,

741
00:43:54,486 --> 00:43:58,836
But it's, but you're, you're also talking about a, hmm, how

742
00:43:58,836 --> 00:44:00,186
do I phrase this correctly?

743
00:44:00,186 --> 00:44:05,151
Praxeology, revolves around first principles, essentially, it goes

744
00:44:05,151 --> 00:44:08,901
back to human action, it goes back to things that are a priori, right?

745
00:44:08,951 --> 00:44:12,646
And because of that, you don't have Get to have a lot of leeway,

746
00:44:13,026 --> 00:44:14,396
is what I hear you saying.

747
00:44:14,436 --> 00:44:19,166
Like, your description, your ability to try to describe it and teach it to people

748
00:44:19,406 --> 00:44:23,766
is constrained by the fact that it has its own natural constraints, so to speak.

749
00:44:23,836 --> 00:44:24,496
Does that make sense?

750
00:44:24,601 --> 00:44:25,531
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

751
00:44:25,531 --> 00:44:30,121
The, this is fleshed out very well in Hopper's book, Austrian, uh, uh,

752
00:44:30,121 --> 00:44:33,901
the Economic Science and the Austrian Method, which is one of my favorite

753
00:44:34,321 --> 00:44:39,441
ology books or Austrian economics books, because what he says is like the, the

754
00:44:39,441 --> 00:44:45,655
empiricists worldview, the empiricist says that everything we know can only

755
00:44:45,655 --> 00:44:50,245
ever be an approximation of something, and it can never be absolutely true.

756
00:44:51,285 --> 00:44:56,045
Uh, so we can only get, the scientific method gets us closer and closer

757
00:44:56,045 --> 00:44:59,935
to the truth, but we can never find the actual truth because, like, the

758
00:44:59,935 --> 00:45:03,285
perfect model of the universe would have to be the universe itself.

759
00:45:04,085 --> 00:45:09,715
And to some extent, this is true, but like, on a quantum physics level, like,

760
00:45:10,325 --> 00:45:14,631
particles don't decide what the fuck they are until you, until you observe them,

761
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:15,830
That's a weird one.

762
00:45:15,850 --> 00:45:17,140
I still have trouble with that.

763
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:22,700
but, but, but still, uh, there, there's some other parallels to make here,

764
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:27,470
but the first one is that statement in itself that we can never have a

765
00:45:27,470 --> 00:45:33,880
hundred percent absolute truth is a, a priori, 100 percent true statement,

766
00:45:35,130 --> 00:45:35,580
Ha!

767
00:45:35,580 --> 00:45:36,510
That's a good one!

768
00:45:36,810 --> 00:45:38,230
Ooh, that's a paradox.

769
00:45:38,430 --> 00:45:43,410
making an assumption about something that is allegedly absolutely true.

770
00:45:44,010 --> 00:45:47,730
And by saying that nothing, but that things can't be.

771
00:45:48,540 --> 00:45:53,990
Uh, they're disproving their own argument from a priori point of view.

772
00:45:54,310 --> 00:45:58,080
And like, that's why I love that book, because it's full of these things.

773
00:45:58,500 --> 00:46:02,950
Like, these paradoxes that, like, debunk everything, and like, that you have to do,

774
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,640
you have to start from first principles, you have to do deductive reasoning.

775
00:46:07,110 --> 00:46:08,500
Like, that's the purest form.

776
00:46:08,820 --> 00:46:15,060
And the other thing about this is a geeky thought fart that I absolutely love.

777
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,195
And that is that this The map and the territory stuff, that the

778
00:46:19,245 --> 00:46:22,945
perfect model of the universe would have to be the universe itself is

779
00:46:22,945 --> 00:46:24,385
true for everything except Bitcoin.

780
00:46:25,082 --> 00:46:30,302
because Bitcoin, what is true in Bitcoin is defined by the map.

781
00:46:30,872 --> 00:46:35,512
The map is being written, the map is being drawn as, as a new

782
00:46:35,512 --> 00:46:37,042
block is added to the time chain.

783
00:46:37,602 --> 00:46:43,182
So every new block is, is the thing that defines the reality in Bitcoin,

784
00:46:43,192 --> 00:46:44,772
that defines reality in Bitcoin.

785
00:46:45,302 --> 00:46:46,422
So it's the other way around.

786
00:46:46,892 --> 00:46:48,852
It's the first time, yeah,

787
00:46:48,857 --> 00:46:49,847
I get that one.

788
00:46:49,962 --> 00:46:52,692
yeah, and it's tied to this that the mind and the focus

789
00:46:52,692 --> 00:46:55,172
and attention creates reality.

790
00:46:55,927 --> 00:47:01,727
Because in Bitcoin that is literally true, like, we, we, we create

791
00:47:01,737 --> 00:47:04,617
reality by creating a Bitcoin block.

792
00:47:05,347 --> 00:47:09,207
And all that is, is focusing on, uh, finding that number.

793
00:47:09,810 --> 00:47:15,154
So wait, so, because every, because every Bitcoin block on the network, on

794
00:47:15,154 --> 00:47:21,765
the shared protocol that is Bitcoin, is propagated everywhere, So Bitcoin

795
00:47:21,765 --> 00:47:24,625
is everywhere, I think I've heard you say it, Bitcoin is everywhere

796
00:47:24,635 --> 00:47:26,055
and nowhere at the same time, right?

797
00:47:26,275 --> 00:47:29,665
Schrodinger's Bitcoin or something, is that, you said something like that?

798
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:35,030
Yeah, yeah, but I, but I like the new one, the Schrödinger's Cat JPEG better.

799
00:47:35,130 --> 00:47:38,580
Like you own it until you observe it, and then you don't anymore.

800
00:47:39,075 --> 00:47:43,015
I'm just wondering about the, um, you know, Bitcoin

801
00:47:43,035 --> 00:47:44,555
being a shared ledger, right?

802
00:47:44,575 --> 00:47:50,688
So that the update, so, how you just phrased it, that we create reality

803
00:47:50,798 --> 00:47:55,578
with each new block, but it's also a shared reality through the network, that

804
00:47:56,178 --> 00:47:58,268
once everybody agrees on that reality.

805
00:47:58,268 --> 00:47:58,893
Boom.

806
00:47:59,863 --> 00:48:04,813
So, it's got, it's got a lot of different, unique elements, it feels like, to me,

807
00:48:04,813 --> 00:48:08,653
as I'm thinking this out right now, in real time, like, it's a reality,

808
00:48:08,683 --> 00:48:11,683
because, well, what makes it a reality?

809
00:48:11,703 --> 00:48:16,303
Everybody in their mind accepts it, or the computer code, you know, the

810
00:48:16,303 --> 00:48:19,273
arrangement of bits and bytes on their computer is the same as everybody else?

811
00:48:19,693 --> 00:48:23,643
I would say it's an intersubjective truth, but, but it's different from

812
00:48:24,602 --> 00:48:29,712
intersubjective truths that preceded it, because it actually creates itself.

813
00:48:30,192 --> 00:48:36,232
So you can say that, like, a nation state is an intersubjective thing.

814
00:48:36,362 --> 00:48:41,677
We agree that the nation state exists, and therefore it It somehow does.

815
00:48:42,027 --> 00:48:46,907
Like, I would say that the notion of God or many gods is the same thing.

816
00:48:47,077 --> 00:48:51,327
A group of people, like, agree that they exist, these things, and therefore,

817
00:48:51,717 --> 00:48:54,907
they, to a certain extent, they do, because people believe in them.

818
00:48:55,347 --> 00:48:57,547
And it's the same with other types of money.

819
00:48:57,797 --> 00:49:03,837
But in Bitcoin, it actually manifests in reality, because we, like, the

820
00:49:03,847 --> 00:49:06,087
miners, they take a look at the mempool.

821
00:49:06,647 --> 00:49:09,887
And they, they make sure that all the transactions are valid and that

822
00:49:09,887 --> 00:49:12,747
they have a, a, a proper private key.

823
00:49:13,157 --> 00:49:14,577
So it's based on truth.

824
00:49:15,487 --> 00:49:18,597
And then they add a nonce and guess a number over and over again.

825
00:49:19,247 --> 00:49:22,167
And all the other participants in the network check that

826
00:49:22,407 --> 00:49:24,037
what they did was truthful.

827
00:49:24,067 --> 00:49:29,097
So we're, we're like, it's sort of intersubjective, also 100

828
00:49:29,097 --> 00:49:30,737
percent truthful at the same time.

829
00:49:31,827 --> 00:49:35,327
And then it manifests into reality when someone finds the actual block.

830
00:49:35,912 --> 00:49:40,022
Okay, so, I don't disagree with any of that, but I think about

831
00:49:40,022 --> 00:49:45,222
this from the perspective that the representation of that reality is in

832
00:49:46,067 --> 00:49:53,187
The arrangement of, uh, of electrical energy, uh, being, uh, in the state

833
00:49:53,187 --> 00:49:54,797
of either flowing or not flowing.

834
00:49:54,797 --> 00:49:56,127
So ones and zeros, right?

835
00:49:56,677 --> 00:49:58,167
Everything digital is a number.

836
00:49:58,777 --> 00:50:02,387
And the entire Bitcoin network and every Bitcoin and every hash is all

837
00:50:02,387 --> 00:50:07,137
represented by numbers, which in a computer, in a physical computer, are

838
00:50:07,137 --> 00:50:12,487
represented by electricity flowing or not flowing, or gates, literal physical

839
00:50:12,652 --> 00:50:14,342
small, small switches,

840
00:50:14,907 --> 00:50:15,567
Exactly.

841
00:50:15,977 --> 00:50:19,467
The arrangement of those represents Bitcoin, right?

842
00:50:19,527 --> 00:50:20,527
And it's copied.

843
00:50:20,527 --> 00:50:23,337
It's essentially copied all over the world.

844
00:50:23,367 --> 00:50:30,687
So this reality that is Bitcoin is a representation of energy stored in lots of

845
00:50:30,687 --> 00:50:32,587
different places that's exactly the same.

846
00:50:33,122 --> 00:50:36,672
If they all just went away, that reality just disappears.

847
00:50:36,992 --> 00:50:38,732
But they would all have to go away.

848
00:50:39,052 --> 00:50:41,302
If one was left, that reality remains.

849
00:50:41,982 --> 00:50:42,512
Fair enough?

850
00:50:43,242 --> 00:50:43,562
yeah,

851
00:50:43,682 --> 00:50:48,122
Bitcoin is a reality that only exists as long as all those arrangements

852
00:50:48,122 --> 00:50:50,142
of electricity remain somewhere.

853
00:50:50,712 --> 00:50:52,572
So that they can be copied for

854
00:50:52,652 --> 00:50:57,452
this, this is, this is so, so wonderful paradox about computers in general, like,

855
00:50:57,712 --> 00:51:01,342
the only thing that makes them so powerful is that you can, is that they are just

856
00:51:01,382 --> 00:51:05,312
on and off switches, which means that you can copy everything without cost.

857
00:51:06,042 --> 00:51:08,512
So that's what makes computers fantastic.

858
00:51:09,432 --> 00:51:14,942
Uh, I, I always say my, uh, my computer, computer identifies as non binary

859
00:51:15,672 --> 00:51:20,762
because every, everything, everything it presents to me, like your face

860
00:51:20,762 --> 00:51:24,742
here on my screen, for instance, and your voice in my ears is non binary.

861
00:51:24,782 --> 00:51:26,462
I don't hear ones and zeros.

862
00:51:26,502 --> 00:51:26,772
I hear

863
00:51:26,872 --> 00:51:27,392
Right.

864
00:51:27,472 --> 00:51:29,072
Oh, that's such a great way to say that.

865
00:51:29,122 --> 00:51:29,622
I love it.

866
00:51:29,952 --> 00:51:32,182
But in reality, there's no such thing.

867
00:51:32,632 --> 00:51:36,172
Everything is binary at its core, which is true on a, like, quantum

868
00:51:36,182 --> 00:51:38,252
mechanics sort of level two, sort of.

869
00:51:38,612 --> 00:51:42,542
A qubit isn't really a one and a zero, but never mind.

870
00:51:43,082 --> 00:51:46,922
Like, this, so the thing about, the fantastic thing about computers

871
00:51:46,922 --> 00:51:48,542
is that you can copy everything.

872
00:51:48,602 --> 00:51:50,822
And Bitcoin wouldn't work if you couldn't.

873
00:51:50,922 --> 00:51:54,022
Like, like you say, every, every participant in the network

874
00:51:54,022 --> 00:51:55,722
has to have the same data.

875
00:51:56,172 --> 00:51:57,262
So what is a Satoshi?

876
00:51:57,262 --> 00:51:58,702
It's something you can't copy, right?

877
00:51:59,577 --> 00:52:02,837
But that means it's not data, because by the very nature of

878
00:52:02,857 --> 00:52:04,827
data, a Satoshi cannot be data.

879
00:52:04,987 --> 00:52:08,737
It's, it's something more than just data.

880
00:52:09,277 --> 00:52:14,177
Like, sure, all the, everything surrounding the Satoshi is data.

881
00:52:14,767 --> 00:52:16,957
The private key and the public key is data.

882
00:52:18,257 --> 00:52:23,327
The thing that makes the Satoshi uncopyable and real, is that it's a

883
00:52:23,327 --> 00:52:25,657
secret that is kept in a head somewhere.

884
00:52:26,447 --> 00:52:28,347
That's what makes it non copyable.

885
00:52:28,932 --> 00:52:33,842
okay, but in reality, I would push back, and I don't disagree with you,

886
00:52:33,842 --> 00:52:37,502
because it's the, it's the statistical likelihood that you could do this.

887
00:52:38,017 --> 00:52:41,787
I could, I have access to your secret, to your Bitcoin, right now,

888
00:52:41,967 --> 00:52:43,787
and I always do, and I always did.

889
00:52:44,087 --> 00:52:48,847
Bitcoin always existed, and it always will exist, because the arrangement of numbers

890
00:52:49,217 --> 00:52:52,217
is always available to a conscious mind.

891
00:52:52,642 --> 00:52:55,472
Yeah, it's, it's, it's just that the hash rate was zero before

892
00:52:55,482 --> 00:52:57,832
2009, but it has always existed.

893
00:52:58,207 --> 00:52:59,377
There you go, right?

894
00:52:59,377 --> 00:53:07,202
And so, even though the secret, uh, that you control Or that the secret that allows

895
00:53:07,202 --> 00:53:12,712
you to talk to the network and ask it to make a change on your behalf is one that

896
00:53:12,752 --> 00:53:17,022
it would be almost impossible for me to guess, but on one guess I could get it.

897
00:53:17,592 --> 00:53:18,542
It's possible.

898
00:53:19,477 --> 00:53:19,767
Right?

899
00:53:20,087 --> 00:53:20,557
So,

900
00:53:20,827 --> 00:53:21,437
unlikely.

901
00:53:21,927 --> 00:53:24,977
of course, and that's what gives the security to this network.

902
00:53:25,417 --> 00:53:29,547
But to say it's not possible, that statement is not possible.

903
00:53:29,687 --> 00:53:33,157
Because every number is always available to every person, every day.

904
00:53:33,637 --> 00:53:37,097
It's whether or not they can figure out the right number, present it to the

905
00:53:37,097 --> 00:53:42,047
network, and have the network act on it, as if it, you know, as if it, um,

906
00:53:42,797 --> 00:53:45,197
the network recognizes its validity.

907
00:53:45,357 --> 00:53:51,092
So, when I was saying earlier that, um, All bitcoins always existed and,

908
00:53:51,152 --> 00:53:55,342
and that they exist within a much, much larger pool of, of numbers.

909
00:53:55,792 --> 00:54:04,333
Um, that to me what that statement really means is, you can't ask the network to do.

910
00:54:04,965 --> 00:54:06,135
how do I even wanna say this?

911
00:54:06,455 --> 00:54:10,055
The Bitcoins are limited from when they're born, essentially, right?

912
00:54:10,055 --> 00:54:14,435
So each bitcoin, the network recognizes all the new Bitcoins and, and essentially

913
00:54:14,645 --> 00:54:16,415
they're all being tracked through time.

914
00:54:16,955 --> 00:54:22,195
And the, the ability to co to actually copy a Bitcoin is, is nothing.

915
00:54:22,675 --> 00:54:28,475
It's the ability to tell the network to change the ledger that is.

916
00:54:29,130 --> 00:54:30,780
The hard, that is the secret.

917
00:54:30,780 --> 00:54:33,630
That's the part that makes it UNC copyable.

918
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:36,930
You have to have that secret and then you could copy it.

919
00:54:37,220 --> 00:54:40,040
To me, to me, that is the Satoshi.

920
00:54:40,300 --> 00:54:43,790
Because the Satoshi doesn't exist on the ledger, it's just unspent

921
00:54:44,210 --> 00:54:45,360
transaction outputs, right?

922
00:54:45,410 --> 00:54:45,830
Yeah.

923
00:54:45,830 --> 00:54:51,470
The Satoshi or a group of Satoshi is literally connected to a person's

924
00:54:51,470 --> 00:54:57,160
ability to say to the network, everybody alter your copy, and I can, and I

925
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:01,720
can say why you should, because I'm following the rules that you said.

926
00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:04,235
I'll alter my copy if you present me with this information.

927
00:55:05,065 --> 00:55:10,245
And so, that secret, those satoshis, are permission to change the ledger.

928
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:17,730
Yeah, so here's a way to think about that, like, uh, So, I say, uh, I claim

929
00:55:17,740 --> 00:55:22,560
ownership over one pebble of sand from all the beaches on planet Earth.

930
00:55:23,610 --> 00:55:28,310
And you can claim ownership of it too, if you guess the same pebble.

931
00:55:29,030 --> 00:55:32,840
Like, that's, that's, that's about the same probability as finding

932
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:34,420
someone else's Bitcoin address, right?

933
00:55:34,665 --> 00:55:36,875
Yeah, yeah, well, that's, that's why it works.

934
00:55:37,255 --> 00:55:39,335
Yeah, the numbers are so large.

935
00:55:39,490 --> 00:55:43,480
so, yeah, so, so it isn't actually true that I own it because everyone

936
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,840
else has the ability to own it too, if they just find the right number.

937
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:50,700
But there, there, I love to para of praise Peterson, and I say

938
00:55:50,705 --> 00:55:52,800
that I act as if Bitcoin exists.

939
00:55:53,895 --> 00:55:54,775
Oh, yes, absolutely.

940
00:55:54,785 --> 00:55:55,465
You have to.

941
00:55:55,675 --> 00:55:57,395
Otherwise, you can't trust anything.

942
00:55:57,395 --> 00:56:01,915
Like, this system works on such large numbers that the statistical

943
00:56:01,915 --> 00:56:05,195
likelihood that anybody will have the same private key is almost impossible.

944
00:56:05,215 --> 00:56:06,305
That's what makes it work.

945
00:56:06,545 --> 00:56:08,785
But the average person can't comprehend that.

946
00:56:08,835 --> 00:56:14,140
It's only because of computer scientists that, that have Worked these numbers

947
00:56:14,170 --> 00:56:18,560
out and then articulated them to other mathematicians and then to lay

948
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,720
people who understand math and then to whoever else wants to grasp this stuff.

949
00:56:23,190 --> 00:56:29,430
That the system works, the trustability of the Bitcoin network resides in the fact

950
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:31,480
that the numbers being used are so big.

951
00:56:31,500 --> 00:56:35,370
The range of numbers available, then the amount of numbers that are actually

952
00:56:35,370 --> 00:56:40,030
getting used for addresses, for hashes, for bitcoins themselves, all of that

953
00:56:40,130 --> 00:56:49,380
is It's just like finding a number to win the block, the difficulty

954
00:56:49,380 --> 00:56:53,010
adjustment is basically saying of all the numbers available to you in the

955
00:56:53,010 --> 00:56:58,270
universe, you have to search within a much more smaller section of numbers,

956
00:56:58,330 --> 00:57:03,290
or we're not giving you credit, and it's that kind of theory that allows

957
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,200
all the aspects of Bitcoin to work.

958
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:09,790
The fact that I produce a private key somewhere completely outside the

959
00:57:09,790 --> 00:57:13,750
network, I present to the network a public key that's connected to that.

960
00:57:13,980 --> 00:57:16,980
And the network says, great, we haven't seen that number ever before.

961
00:57:17,310 --> 00:57:20,140
Well, they could have, it's possible, statistically possible,

962
00:57:20,140 --> 00:57:22,020
but statistically unlikely.

963
00:57:22,220 --> 00:57:25,830
And these are all, that would be like some type of, I know that in

964
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:31,400
ECBSA, Elliptical curve, digital signature algorithm, mathematics.

965
00:57:31,550 --> 00:57:34,790
There's something known as a collision like can two hashes

966
00:57:34,790 --> 00:57:36,620
for the same thing be found?

967
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:43,830
And there's the absolute, uh, statistical probability that it could, but it's so

968
00:57:43,835 --> 00:57:47,910
infinite, infinitesimally small that it never happens, or it almost never happens.

969
00:57:48,270 --> 00:57:52,760
And I feel like those concepts are broadly in many different ways of

970
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:53,990
looking at the Bitcoin network.

971
00:57:53,990 --> 00:57:54,920
Does this make sense?

972
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,000
Am I crazy or what?

973
00:57:56,470 --> 00:57:58,270
No, no, it makes absolute sense.

974
00:57:58,510 --> 00:57:59,020
Uh.

975
00:58:00,135 --> 00:58:04,275
And I think that, that to some, some extent is how the universe works too.

976
00:58:04,275 --> 00:58:11,885
Like, uh, things, things like the atoms could pop up and some weird, the Eiffel

977
00:58:11,885 --> 00:58:17,225
Tower could materialize out side of ju Jupiter because of some random event.

978
00:58:17,585 --> 00:58:24,005
But the, the, the, the chance that it will happen is so in infinitesimally.

979
00:58:24,210 --> 00:58:25,330
Is that the word you use?

980
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:26,130
that's the word.

981
00:58:26,380 --> 00:58:28,780
Infinitesimally small that it doesn't have.

982
00:58:29,220 --> 00:58:29,670
So, like,

983
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:32,200
So I got a good one for you.

984
00:58:32,260 --> 00:58:35,530
This is gonna take us away from Bitcoin, but I think you'll enjoy this little

985
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:36,730
conversation because this was on

986
00:58:36,980 --> 00:58:38,110
you know what this is, Jim?

987
00:58:38,350 --> 00:58:41,800
This is just like a toxic happy hour, but without all the other people.

988
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:42,680
It's just you and me.

989
00:58:43,330 --> 00:58:45,990
Yeah, and Luke's been just sitting there listening.

990
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:47,180
Jump in anytime, brother.

991
00:58:47,460 --> 00:58:47,660
Um,

992
00:58:47,775 --> 00:58:48,945
This is always how it goes.

993
00:58:49,325 --> 00:58:49,505
This is

994
00:58:49,610 --> 00:58:53,090
I noticed that, I know, that's fine though, look, you know, you come

995
00:58:53,090 --> 00:58:55,730
up with great questions, I've heard you ask many good questions, so,

996
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:57,000
let you in soon enough.

997
01:00:05,671 --> 01:00:09,991
so, so, we had this discussion on Spaces the other day, do we have free

998
01:00:09,991 --> 01:00:16,471
will, and I, I got on there, and nobody refuted this, everybody just, it was

999
01:00:16,471 --> 01:00:19,401
just a pleasant, everybody making their perspective known, I guess,

1000
01:00:19,401 --> 01:00:24,441
and, So I said, well, if you took two magnets, North and South poles, right,

1001
01:00:24,471 --> 01:00:26,131
they, they don't have a conscience.

1002
01:00:26,201 --> 01:00:28,871
North and South will attract, North and North will propel.

1003
01:00:28,951 --> 01:00:33,027
And it's universally provable, happens all the time.

1004
01:00:33,727 --> 01:00:37,067
I said things like, well, you know, the moon that floats around,

1005
01:00:37,227 --> 01:00:39,187
uh, seems to affect the tides.

1006
01:00:39,822 --> 01:00:43,162
Uh, to the extent that humans have observed it over and over and actually

1007
01:00:43,162 --> 01:00:44,692
can predict tides in the future.

1008
01:00:44,972 --> 01:00:49,482
And they can predict higher and lower than normal tides based on moon phases.

1009
01:00:50,087 --> 01:00:53,799
Yeah, maps onto everything else about gravity very well, too.

1010
01:00:53,815 --> 01:00:59,985
So, so here's my, here's my Deterministic perspective, which I don't, I don't like

1011
01:00:59,985 --> 01:01:01,625
it because I believe I have free will.

1012
01:01:01,705 --> 01:01:05,185
I act as if I do and I, my perception is that I do.

1013
01:01:05,705 --> 01:01:10,245
But how about this, for this incredibly broad picture brought

1014
01:01:10,245 --> 01:01:13,425
all the way down to like the atom, the level of the atoms or something,

1015
01:01:13,475 --> 01:01:14,695
you know, electrons and protons.

1016
01:01:15,805 --> 01:01:18,935
If magnets are always going to act a certain way with no conscience

1017
01:01:18,935 --> 01:01:24,115
because of their electromagnetic energy, And everything, everything is

1018
01:01:24,115 --> 01:01:26,245
electromagnetic energy, including us.

1019
01:01:27,205 --> 01:01:32,365
Um, it stands to reason that everything affects everything, at some level.

1020
01:01:32,925 --> 01:01:36,995
And that, if that's true, and if they, and if the effect under the

1021
01:01:36,995 --> 01:01:39,945
exact same conditions will always be the same, just like a hash.

1022
01:01:40,590 --> 01:01:42,240
Put in the same, you always get out the same.

1023
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:47,810
Put two magnets together in the same, under the same friction environment,

1024
01:01:47,860 --> 01:01:52,170
under the same humidity, the same atmospheric pressure, and watch them

1025
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:56,320
attract at a certain speed, and they'll always do it at the exact same speed.

1026
01:01:56,320 --> 01:02:00,380
Watch them repel at the exact same speed, every single time, if you could

1027
01:02:00,690 --> 01:02:02,750
make the conditions exactly the same.

1028
01:02:03,450 --> 01:02:07,205
Theoretically, It makes sense you could, but in practice I don't think we could,

1029
01:02:07,285 --> 01:02:11,705
because there's too many gazillions of variables with every molecule,

1030
01:02:11,745 --> 01:02:13,245
every proton, and every electron.

1031
01:02:13,715 --> 01:02:18,595
Okay, since we don't know, it's impossible for us to even grasp

1032
01:02:19,235 --> 01:02:23,985
the possible outcomes of the interaction of any pieces of energy.

1033
01:02:24,540 --> 01:02:27,630
The sun, energy, plants, wind, any of it.

1034
01:02:27,660 --> 01:02:29,700
We can't, there's too many combinations.

1035
01:02:30,270 --> 01:02:33,990
That doesn't mean that they aren't acting exactly how they were meant to

1036
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:39,899
act, including the thoughts in our heads because of the electron arrangement

1037
01:02:40,289 --> 01:02:47,409
that was determined to take place over my lifetime as every single piece of

1038
01:02:47,409 --> 01:02:52,509
electricity affected me and around me in the way it was meant to because it had to.

1039
01:02:53,485 --> 01:02:58,095
I don't like that thought, that we are completely deterministic, and so is the

1040
01:02:58,095 --> 01:03:00,455
entire world and everything we observe.

1041
01:03:00,855 --> 01:03:03,605
Because it doesn't feel like that, but maybe that is also

1042
01:03:03,605 --> 01:03:06,615
part of the way we were designed.

1043
01:03:06,935 --> 01:03:11,975
Our brains allow us to see past the reality that it's deterministic and

1044
01:03:12,005 --> 01:03:15,805
live in a fantasy world that we get to believe we're making our own choices.

1045
01:03:16,175 --> 01:03:18,665
I'd just love to hear your perspective on all this.

1046
01:03:19,485 --> 01:03:20,115
Yeah.

1047
01:03:20,115 --> 01:03:20,445
Yeah.

1048
01:03:20,445 --> 01:03:24,615
And then I'll try to debunk the word designed, uh, but anyway,

1049
01:03:24,675 --> 01:03:26,275
go for it, it's perfectly fine.

1050
01:03:26,275 --> 01:03:31,515
I was not, I expected you to be willing, you know, that's fine, I

1051
01:03:31,515 --> 01:03:35,915
know your perspective on God and faith and all that, and I respect it,

1052
01:03:36,295 --> 01:03:40,035
even though I may not entirely agree, so go ahead, I'd love to hear it.

1053
01:03:40,221 --> 01:03:42,561
Anyway, the, the, like, the other stuff first.

1054
01:03:42,621 --> 01:03:45,261
Um, and we'll see about the other rabbit hole later.

1055
01:03:45,291 --> 01:03:49,804
Uh, like, so this is, this is, I'm so glad I recommended Alker episode

1056
01:03:49,804 --> 01:03:55,134
because it's abs it's, it's about this, uh, exactly this, and I'll

1057
01:03:55,134 --> 01:03:57,114
try to give you the TLDR there.

1058
01:03:57,534 --> 01:03:59,874
So the, the thing is that consciousness.

1059
01:04:00,734 --> 01:04:02,114
happens about 0.

1060
01:04:02,114 --> 01:04:06,574
3 seconds after the decisions are made by the brain.

1061
01:04:07,063 --> 01:04:11,953
So, so like the, if you, the example Falko gave, one of the examples is

1062
01:04:11,973 --> 01:04:15,993
like, if you stick a needle into your toe and into your neck at the

1063
01:04:15,993 --> 01:04:21,458
same time, like simultaneously, You feel the pain in your toe and in

1064
01:04:21,458 --> 01:04:23,428
your neck simultaneously, right?

1065
01:04:24,408 --> 01:04:28,238
Which can't be true, because the signal from the toe takes more time to reach

1066
01:04:28,238 --> 01:04:29,848
your brain than the signal from the neck.

1067
01:04:30,472 --> 01:04:31,302
Because the nerve is

1068
01:04:31,337 --> 01:04:34,227
is it, it would be so quick that maybe the human mind just

1069
01:04:34,227 --> 01:04:35,487
can't perceive the difference.

1070
01:04:36,112 --> 01:04:41,792
Well, there's been studies about this, and the result of the studies, like

1071
01:04:41,792 --> 01:04:46,392
I'm paraphrasing here, of course, but, but, uh, the gist of it is that

1072
01:04:47,397 --> 01:04:53,637
Every decision the brain makes happens about, we experience reality 0.

1073
01:04:53,637 --> 01:04:55,167
3 seconds after it actually happened.

1074
01:04:56,017 --> 01:04:56,727
And it, if,

1075
01:04:57,032 --> 01:04:58,382
been studied in some way that

1076
01:04:58,699 --> 01:05:01,779
yeah, you have to listen to the episode to get, to get better examples.

1077
01:05:01,779 --> 01:05:07,069
But if you just take it, take, take my words to be true for now, uh, I mean,

1078
01:05:07,069 --> 01:05:11,959
I haven't verified it myself, but it makes sense because, like, what would be

1079
01:05:12,444 --> 01:05:16,654
Like, what would the decision maker be?

1080
01:05:16,714 --> 01:05:22,421
Like, the electrons in your head, you can't pick which ones go where, you

1081
01:05:22,421 --> 01:05:27,631
can't pick your own synapses, because the synapses are what are supposed

1082
01:05:27,661 --> 01:05:29,461
to be picking something, right?

1083
01:05:30,761 --> 01:05:35,611
Uh, if you have free will, like, that has to happen in the brain.

1084
01:05:35,691 --> 01:05:44,001
Or, the conclusion, the TLDR of the episode is, free will can exist if you

1085
01:05:44,011 --> 01:05:48,171
accept that there's such a thing as a soul that exists outside the body.

1086
01:05:49,541 --> 01:05:54,121
And I know a lot of neuroscientists about, when they talk about free will,

1087
01:05:54,546 --> 01:05:59,206
They talk that many of them think we don't have it, uh, simply because like,

1088
01:05:59,576 --> 01:06:05,996
and some believe we have it to only the extent that we can choose what thoughts

1089
01:06:06,076 --> 01:06:10,736
to focus on to some extent, but nothing else, because everything else requires

1090
01:06:10,736 --> 01:06:17,466
this lag, has this lag, but like from a, like first principles perspective, how

1091
01:06:17,496 --> 01:06:24,768
could something affect something that, uh, that would have to go backwards in time.

1092
01:06:24,868 --> 01:06:29,348
Because if you make a decision about something in your brain, if there was a

1093
01:06:29,348 --> 01:06:34,829
decision making mechanism, the, the, the, that would have to precede the synapses

1094
01:06:35,249 --> 01:06:36,769
in order for there to be free will.

1095
01:06:37,684 --> 01:06:43,354
And how could, because the synapses, if the synapses happen first, you by

1096
01:06:43,354 --> 01:06:45,334
definition don't choose them yourself.

1097
01:06:45,860 --> 01:06:47,670
You can't choose something.

1098
01:06:47,695 --> 01:06:48,065
Okay.

1099
01:06:48,065 --> 01:06:48,365
Okay.

1100
01:06:48,365 --> 01:06:53,800
So, so my, my rebuttal to that would be you say synapse, I would have thought

1101
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:55,430
it was pronounced synapse, but it

1102
01:06:55,635 --> 01:06:55,985
Synapse.

1103
01:06:56,005 --> 01:06:56,455
Yeah, yeah.

1104
01:06:56,595 --> 01:06:56,795
Yeah.

1105
01:06:57,105 --> 01:06:58,855
I'm not a native English speaker.

1106
01:06:58,930 --> 01:06:59,570
Oh, that's all right.

1107
01:06:59,620 --> 01:07:01,350
I might, doesn't make me right.

1108
01:07:01,500 --> 01:07:02,900
Because even though I

1109
01:07:02,985 --> 01:07:05,335
you're, neither are you.

1110
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:08,260
I'm a New Yorker, dude.

1111
01:07:08,430 --> 01:07:10,570
I don't speak proper English at all.

1112
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:13,000
So, no, um.

1113
01:07:13,125 --> 01:07:13,625
Who does?

1114
01:07:13,775 --> 01:07:17,145
just, I'm just thinking, so from the perspective that I was trying to

1115
01:07:17,145 --> 01:07:23,860
articulate earlier, the chemical, uh, signals that are bouncing around in my

1116
01:07:23,860 --> 01:07:29,680
brain that allow me to perceive things and choose my words and all that stuff, are

1117
01:07:29,810 --> 01:07:38,715
a natural function of the arrangement of my brain All of the memory it holds, from

1118
01:07:38,715 --> 01:07:44,935
the experiences it has, so it's completely unique, and the input information that I'm

1119
01:07:44,935 --> 01:07:51,295
taking in through my eyes, ears, and the air around me, all that, and so that those

1120
01:07:51,325 --> 01:07:54,745
things cause the firing of the synapses.

1121
01:07:55,710 --> 01:08:00,010
Uh, from, from this, the same perspective of two magnets are always

1122
01:08:00,010 --> 01:08:01,080
going to do what they're going to do.

1123
01:08:01,300 --> 01:08:05,000
That is to say that all the electrical signals that are making everything

1124
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:09,040
happen from the air outside of me to your voice, all that stuff, is going

1125
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:13,120
to come out of me a predetermined way because of the arrangement of

1126
01:08:13,130 --> 01:08:15,030
all the electricity that makes me up.

1127
01:08:15,420 --> 01:08:19,060
And it can't, it can only go in that way, and so it will only produce

1128
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:23,270
thoughts in my head that, that I think are random and choices that I'm making.

1129
01:08:23,270 --> 01:08:28,280
But Everything's just happening because it's, it's a chemical, physical reaction

1130
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:33,010
to electromagnetic energy that's always going to happen the same way every day.

1131
01:08:33,060 --> 01:08:37,250
We just can't fathom the billions of combinations of variables and

1132
01:08:37,350 --> 01:08:39,870
our human nature, the way we are.

1133
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:45,320
Quote unquote design, perhaps, um, doesn't allow us to see it any other

1134
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:49,110
way other than free will and spontaneous decision making and all that stuff.

1135
01:08:49,110 --> 01:08:50,220
And maybe it's just not.

1136
01:08:50,500 --> 01:08:53,990
I don't, I don't like the idea of it because I do like to believe

1137
01:08:53,990 --> 01:08:55,860
that we're free, we have free will and that kind of stuff.

1138
01:08:55,860 --> 01:08:59,190
So, it was just, it came up in the discussion the other day, and my mind

1139
01:08:59,190 --> 01:09:02,100
started racing, I was driving, and I started thinking of this energy.

1140
01:09:02,260 --> 01:09:04,750
And part of it was because I have a good friend, my friend

1141
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:06,040
Monica, who's an astrologist.

1142
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,220
She goes by Bravo Monica on, on Twitter,

1143
01:09:08,370 --> 01:09:08,550
Yeah.

1144
01:09:08,550 --> 01:09:08,680
Yeah.

1145
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:09,220
I know her.

1146
01:09:09,230 --> 01:09:09,490
Yeah.

1147
01:09:09,490 --> 01:09:10,440
She's a fan of the show

1148
01:09:10,570 --> 01:09:15,620
smart lady, really, really great, and when I think of it, my mother was into

1149
01:09:15,620 --> 01:09:19,040
astrology, so I'm not like, I don't know much about it, but I, my mother

1150
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:22,300
was one of the most honest people I ever knew, and she did it for fun, and

1151
01:09:22,490 --> 01:09:26,800
she said to me enough things over the years that I, I couldn't, Ignore the

1152
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:30,850
connections that she would say are made between planets moving around and all

1153
01:09:30,850 --> 01:09:32,550
this stuff, and it's all just energy.

1154
01:09:32,930 --> 01:09:36,620
And that's what got me thinking, that if it's all just energy and it affects us in

1155
01:09:36,620 --> 01:09:43,590
some way, then maybe it's predetermined because energy acts the same every time

1156
01:09:43,590 --> 01:09:47,810
under the same conditions, or at least it appears from our human perspective that

1157
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:51,400
that is what's happening around us, but we might not perceive anything accurately.

1158
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:52,880
How's this for a weird thought?

1159
01:09:53,170 --> 01:09:56,970
As a kid growing up, I used to think I see this world of things called

1160
01:09:56,990 --> 01:10:01,420
people, uh, with hair, and they put clothing on, and they drive in cars.

1161
01:10:01,610 --> 01:10:07,190
But what if somebody sees green monsters driving in helicopters, and yet their

1162
01:10:07,190 --> 01:10:11,560
reality is what they see, mine is what I see, and yet they intertwine in

1163
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:16,040
such a way that their reality bounces against mine, and we both interact,

1164
01:10:16,100 --> 01:10:19,490
and they're seeing something completely different, and we just don't know it.

1165
01:10:20,115 --> 01:10:23,395
I've changed my mind on free will back and forth throughout my life.

1166
01:10:23,405 --> 01:10:26,475
My favorite quote about it is Christopher Hitchens, who said,

1167
01:10:26,575 --> 01:10:29,145
Of course you have free will, you have no choice but to have it.

1168
01:10:31,450 --> 01:10:32,370
That's a great one.

1169
01:10:32,495 --> 01:10:36,425
Yeah, and like the monsters you talk about, like, I think that

1170
01:10:36,435 --> 01:10:38,445
the easier example is just colors.

1171
01:10:38,730 --> 01:10:42,120
We have no clue if other people see colors the same way we do.

1172
01:10:42,210 --> 01:10:46,000
We have no clue that we could be living in a completely different world.

1173
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:47,840
We probably are to some extent.

1174
01:10:47,850 --> 01:10:50,650
We don't know to which extent the mind creates reality and

1175
01:10:50,700 --> 01:10:53,320
you, you see the orange screen behind me, right?

1176
01:10:54,431 --> 01:10:57,361
A green screen is just an orange screen cache, you know.

1177
01:11:00,906 --> 01:11:01,566
perfect.

1178
01:11:01,871 --> 01:11:05,301
All right, but back to this free will stuff, because I

1179
01:11:05,401 --> 01:11:06,891
find it insanely fascinating.

1180
01:11:06,901 --> 01:11:13,100
Like, so, I can't shake away that thought that you can't have free will simply

1181
01:11:13,101 --> 01:11:15,341
because the flow of time disallows it.

1182
01:11:15,795 --> 01:11:19,109
There's another theory that I heard from Joni Appelberg on a pod.

1183
01:11:19,444 --> 01:11:23,004
I haven't talked to him about this yet, I have to do that at some point,

1184
01:11:23,334 --> 01:11:27,964
but he's into psychedelics and stuff, and he's, you know, he's a doctor

1185
01:11:27,964 --> 01:11:32,084
and he's studying these things, and studies a lot of studies about it.

1186
01:11:32,524 --> 01:11:36,984
So, there is an idea out there that consciousness is sort of

1187
01:11:36,984 --> 01:11:40,321
like Other universal constants.

1188
01:11:40,331 --> 01:11:44,291
So it's like gravity or the weak nuclear force or the strong nuclear force or

1189
01:11:44,301 --> 01:11:49,221
something else like our electromagnetism or whatever, uh, it's just out there.

1190
01:11:49,251 --> 01:11:52,031
And we just, our brains are just tapping into it.

1191
01:11:52,041 --> 01:11:58,341
Like it taps into all the other aspects of the universe and, uh, the, the, the

1192
01:11:58,371 --> 01:12:04,831
comforting thought about free will not existing is that, in that case, Everything

1193
01:12:04,831 --> 01:12:09,401
is just inputs and outputs, and your brain is just reacting to stuff around

1194
01:12:09,401 --> 01:12:16,049
you, and you can't do anything about it, which means, enjoy the ride, that's

1195
01:12:16,049 --> 01:12:19,519
all you can do, so you might as well, and you're going to do the stuff you're

1196
01:12:19,519 --> 01:12:24,389
going to do anyway, so, so, and, so, and your brain, your brain is going to come

1197
01:12:24,389 --> 01:12:31,169
up with lies all the time about how you made decisions, and, When in reality you

1198
01:12:31,169 --> 01:12:33,069
didn't make the decision, your brain did.

1199
01:12:33,608 --> 01:12:35,398
You didn't notice it, but your brain did.

1200
01:12:35,665 --> 01:12:40,315
Yeah, if you're, if what you're saying is true, and we'll never really know, I don't

1201
01:12:40,315 --> 01:12:44,535
think there's a way to prove any of this stuff, but you would, so, you would first

1202
01:12:44,545 --> 01:12:50,885
have to have the conscious thought that I don't get to choose, uh, other than my

1203
01:12:50,885 --> 01:12:53,165
reaction to what is going to happen to me.

1204
01:12:53,451 --> 01:12:54,991
no, that's not what happens first.

1205
01:12:55,399 --> 01:12:56,379
This is the thing.

1206
01:12:56,569 --> 01:12:58,349
That is never what happens first.

1207
01:12:58,459 --> 01:13:01,249
The conscious thought can never be the first thing.

1208
01:13:02,509 --> 01:13:08,639
The brain realizes This before your conscious does as weird as that sounds,

1209
01:13:09,149 --> 01:13:10,709
you're, you're conscious always.

1210
01:13:10,979 --> 01:13:13,509
So, so your brain is in the driver's seat.

1211
01:13:13,639 --> 01:13:18,629
Your physical brain is in the driver's seat from a certain perspective, but all

1212
01:13:18,629 --> 01:13:22,519
it's doing is reacting to stuff and then telling your conscious that you're lying.

1213
01:13:22,519 --> 01:13:27,959
So, so the way folk are explained, why we evolved consciousness is that.

1214
01:13:29,539 --> 01:13:34,779
By having consciousness, we could imagine a caveman hunting a tiger, so he can

1215
01:13:34,779 --> 01:13:39,609
see himself with his conscious mind, he can imagine himself chasing the tiger

1216
01:13:39,609 --> 01:13:45,579
with a pointy stick, and he can also imagine the tiger eating him, so he

1217
01:13:45,579 --> 01:13:49,879
doesn't have to do the trial and error stuff because he has an imagination,

1218
01:13:50,179 --> 01:13:54,209
and a consciousness is nothing but an imagination from that point of view.

1219
01:13:54,664 --> 01:13:57,534
And that's the evolutionary advantage of having one.

1220
01:13:57,534 --> 01:14:03,104
It's the brain, figuring out stuff before trying out stuff.

1221
01:14:03,603 --> 01:14:05,633
Okay, so let me ask you this then.

1222
01:14:06,493 --> 01:14:08,613
I don't think anything is invented.

1223
01:14:08,613 --> 01:14:10,183
I think all things are discovered.

1224
01:14:10,313 --> 01:14:13,453
I think the human brain looks at the world around and sees a

1225
01:14:13,463 --> 01:14:18,223
problem and says, There's got to be a different way to do this.

1226
01:14:18,313 --> 01:14:24,223
And then uncovers something on World that solves a problem.

1227
01:14:24,223 --> 01:14:29,293
So somebody uncovered the idea of a round object that became a wheel and ul

1228
01:14:29,353 --> 01:14:34,713
ultimately a steer, uh, because they saw one just like it in nature and recognized

1229
01:14:34,718 --> 01:14:36,483
that they could use that for something.

1230
01:14:37,031 --> 01:14:40,111
and so a lot of things were discovered.

1231
01:14:40,111 --> 01:14:43,411
I like, again, like Bitcoin to me was discovered.

1232
01:14:43,731 --> 01:14:48,141
The principles that allow it to work have always existed in the universe.

1233
01:14:48,381 --> 01:14:50,091
It was only until people saw them.

1234
01:14:50,616 --> 01:14:51,826
They uncovered them.

1235
01:14:52,086 --> 01:14:57,886
So like, every, every new invention, what we call an invention, seems

1236
01:14:57,886 --> 01:15:02,966
to me to be a discovery of a new arrangement of molecules and atoms to

1237
01:15:02,966 --> 01:15:07,996
solve a similar problem that a worser arrangement was solving for people.

1238
01:15:08,832 --> 01:15:10,132
I forget where I was going with that one.

1239
01:15:10,617 --> 01:15:14,797
Yeah, yeah, okay, the distinction between invention and discovery, like,

1240
01:15:15,077 --> 01:15:21,437
if what we're saying is true, and if we don't have free will, and if, uh,

1241
01:15:21,997 --> 01:15:27,257
if the brain creates reality to a larger extent than we exist, than we,

1242
01:15:27,257 --> 01:15:31,137
uh, than we, um, um, than we think.

1243
01:15:31,472 --> 01:15:33,482
Then, everything is discovery.

1244
01:15:33,792 --> 01:15:35,692
All of life is a discovery.

1245
01:15:36,012 --> 01:15:39,452
So, but, but, but then there's no use for the word invention.

1246
01:15:39,452 --> 01:15:47,482
So invention is, is like when, I would say like discovery, invention, engineering,

1247
01:15:47,572 --> 01:15:52,272
tinkering, like they're very closely connected, but it's basically just trial

1248
01:15:52,272 --> 01:15:54,582
and error until you figure something out.

1249
01:15:55,357 --> 01:15:58,317
Yeah, so yeah, like mechanical engineering, you know, how

1250
01:15:58,317 --> 01:15:59,707
does a building hold itself up?

1251
01:15:59,717 --> 01:16:03,467
People had to first think of the concept of like, we want to build

1252
01:16:03,467 --> 01:16:04,697
something, we don't want it to fall down.

1253
01:16:04,707 --> 01:16:08,037
They had to test materials to see how strong something is.

1254
01:16:08,037 --> 01:16:12,656
And then, uh, but it's all just discovering the properties of So, uh,

1255
01:16:12,656 --> 01:16:17,432
there's a lot of molecules on this earth, like a steel beam came from rocks in the

1256
01:16:17,432 --> 01:16:24,082
ground, uh, people figured out ways to, uh, use heat to melt it and turn it into

1257
01:16:24,082 --> 01:16:27,442
something else, or combine different metals to make alloys, all of this stuff

1258
01:16:27,842 --> 01:16:34,362
are just discoveries of The properties of molecules on this planet, essentially,

1259
01:16:34,362 --> 01:16:36,132
and the rearrangement of those molecules.

1260
01:16:36,152 --> 01:16:41,832
Every, everything, every plastic that's in the ocean, everything was in a

1261
01:16:41,832 --> 01:16:44,572
different form already here, once before.

1262
01:16:44,872 --> 01:16:50,022
And humans observed these things and said, well, if I rearrange them, what happens?

1263
01:16:50,062 --> 01:16:51,762
And it's, oh, I discovered this, look at this!

1264
01:16:51,792 --> 01:16:52,932
Now, it takes place.

1265
01:16:53,917 --> 01:16:54,147
Right?

1266
01:16:54,147 --> 01:16:56,737
So all discoveries are just rearrangements of atoms and

1267
01:16:56,747 --> 01:16:58,567
molecules that we didn't see before.

1268
01:16:59,487 --> 01:17:02,617
But mechanical engineering is also the discovery of a lot of

1269
01:17:02,647 --> 01:17:06,587
abstract things, like mathematics and geometry and like, uh,

1270
01:17:07,325 --> 01:17:08,365
But it's all discovery.

1271
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:13,870
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's still discovery, but, but it's a more abstract form of

1272
01:17:13,870 --> 01:17:17,990
it than has, it doesn't necessarily have to do with physical things, like,

1273
01:17:18,020 --> 01:17:23,120
uh, I mean, I, I guess, I guess the word, I guess the word discovery is

1274
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:25,390
more applicable to non physical things.

1275
01:17:25,830 --> 01:17:30,940
So Pythagoras theorem was discovered while as the, the wheel was invented.

1276
01:17:31,450 --> 01:17:34,410
Like the circle, the circle was discovered, yeah,

1277
01:17:34,598 --> 01:17:36,418
But, but all those things always existed.

1278
01:17:36,428 --> 01:17:39,128
Math always existed, the number zero always existed.

1279
01:17:39,388 --> 01:17:41,398
It wasn't until people observed them.

1280
01:17:41,982 --> 01:17:44,892
but a piston, a piston engine didn't always exist.

1281
01:17:45,802 --> 01:17:48,222
Even though the concepts that built it did.

1282
01:17:49,977 --> 01:17:54,157
The physical item, absolutely, the rearrangement of the

1283
01:17:54,157 --> 01:17:56,767
molecules used to not be there.

1284
01:17:56,957 --> 01:18:01,367
And then humans observed enough things to rearrange enough

1285
01:18:01,367 --> 01:18:03,677
molecules to create something.

1286
01:18:04,242 --> 01:18:10,372
Out of, you know, that was in a different form in the earth in its, in its past.

1287
01:18:10,522 --> 01:18:13,892
I mean, that, you know, everything is still a rearrangement of

1288
01:18:14,392 --> 01:18:19,232
existing molecules, but take it outside of molecules to something

1289
01:18:19,232 --> 01:18:21,152
like math, which is concepts.

1290
01:18:21,692 --> 01:18:29,427
I believe they also Always existed, and do always exist, and it is only our

1291
01:18:29,627 --> 01:18:37,077
discovery of them, and our ability to use the logic of them, the logic of numbers,

1292
01:18:37,077 --> 01:18:40,237
and how they relate to each other, which has a certain perfection to it.

1293
01:18:41,007 --> 01:18:43,317
Even though it's not physical, we can turn them into physical

1294
01:18:43,327 --> 01:18:44,857
things, but it's a concept.

1295
01:18:45,237 --> 01:18:48,287
All of math is just concepts, but they still have to be discovered.

1296
01:18:48,577 --> 01:18:52,968
But what about stuff like trust, or honesty.

1297
01:18:53,728 --> 01:19:00,238
Um, I consider them types of first principles because they act on

1298
01:19:00,238 --> 01:19:05,438
us regardless of our knowledge of them or our attitude towards them.

1299
01:19:05,948 --> 01:19:09,008
So first principles like gravity will act on you if you don't know

1300
01:19:09,008 --> 01:19:10,288
it exists, it still acts on you.

1301
01:19:10,498 --> 01:19:13,338
And you could dislike it, your attitude towards it is irrelevant,

1302
01:19:13,338 --> 01:19:14,288
it's still going to act on you.

1303
01:19:14,818 --> 01:19:20,238
I think all first principles act in some fashion like that, and truth and trust

1304
01:19:20,288 --> 01:19:28,328
and trustworthiness are human principles or human actions, human perspectives, are

1305
01:19:28,358 --> 01:19:38,967
human Observations that allow us to move forward in this world with more certainty,

1306
01:19:39,407 --> 01:19:41,877
even though there's no true certainty.

1307
01:19:42,387 --> 01:19:46,297
The idea that I would trust you allows me to act with you in different

1308
01:19:46,297 --> 01:19:47,907
ways than if I didn't trust you.

1309
01:19:47,927 --> 01:19:53,097
There's this human element to a non observable, non physical

1310
01:19:53,107 --> 01:19:55,527
thing that we all can grasp.

1311
01:19:55,687 --> 01:20:00,257
Honesty is an understanding versus Dishonesty.

1312
01:20:00,587 --> 01:20:06,047
And it affects us in very similar ways as human beings, so that it's

1313
01:20:06,087 --> 01:20:10,368
kind of a universal thing that's not physical, it's not, you know,

1314
01:20:10,378 --> 01:20:12,478
theoretical in terms of math.

1315
01:20:13,163 --> 01:20:16,913
And yet, it affects all of us, and where does that come from, and where

1316
01:20:16,913 --> 01:20:18,933
does it reside, and what is it exactly?

1317
01:20:18,933 --> 01:20:22,233
You got any thoughts on trust and trustworthiness, and,

1318
01:20:22,828 --> 01:20:28,428
I have an observation, uh, uh, not really anything to add from, from a,

1319
01:20:28,428 --> 01:20:31,918
like a first principle standpoint, but, but I do have an observation

1320
01:20:31,918 --> 01:20:33,458
about Bitcoiners in general.

1321
01:20:34,113 --> 01:20:37,963
And that is the longer you've been in the Bitcoin space and you haven't

1322
01:20:37,983 --> 01:20:42,383
shit coined or fucked up in any other way, but you just keep the things you

1323
01:20:42,383 --> 01:20:47,163
do honest, like it's your online, you know, reputational capital, if you will.

1324
01:20:47,793 --> 01:20:52,823
That is, to me, uh, it's easy to trust someone who I know is a true Bitcoiner.

1325
01:20:53,788 --> 01:20:57,438
So, for instance, when you offer me to pick you up in your pickup truck,

1326
01:20:57,438 --> 01:21:00,618
I don't hesitate, because I trust you.

1327
01:21:00,908 --> 01:21:01,948
Why do I trust you?

1328
01:21:02,118 --> 01:21:05,048
Because you're a Bitcoiner, and you have proven so over a long time.

1329
01:21:05,388 --> 01:21:08,998
I wouldn't trust Richard Hart to pick me up, you know?

1330
01:21:08,998 --> 01:21:17,088
So, and, you know, the longer you've shown that you're true to your morals

1331
01:21:17,088 --> 01:21:18,728
and principles, the more I trust you.

1332
01:21:19,118 --> 01:21:23,828
And Bitcoin is definitely connected to that, because I know If you've shown

1333
01:21:23,828 --> 01:21:27,668
that you're, you're a true Bitcoiner and you're not, you're not falling for any of

1334
01:21:27,868 --> 01:21:35,618
these scams or, or even worse, creating them yourself, then I know, I put a high

1335
01:21:35,618 --> 01:21:38,508
value, trustworthiness value on to you.

1336
01:21:39,098 --> 01:21:43,068
Uh, so, so I think this is so ironic because the, the whole ethos of

1337
01:21:43,068 --> 01:21:45,028
Bitcoin is don't trust verify, right?

1338
01:21:45,958 --> 01:21:51,313
And I think that somehow enables us to Now, yeah, but that, that

1339
01:21:51,333 --> 01:21:55,013
enables us to trust one another on a completely different level.

1340
01:21:55,453 --> 01:22:01,063
So it's a don't trust verify attitude and a, a, uh, dedication to it

1341
01:22:01,723 --> 01:22:03,513
that shows me that I can trust you.

1342
01:22:04,773 --> 01:22:08,573
Yeah, it's a, it's quite the paradox, really, because, um, in this

1343
01:22:08,573 --> 01:22:12,853
world, we end up trusting a million things we don't even think about.

1344
01:22:12,998 --> 01:22:16,338
You know, the traffic light's going to work, or the other guy's going

1345
01:22:16,338 --> 01:22:19,278
to stop at the stop sign because he's supposed to and I'm not.

1346
01:22:19,628 --> 01:22:23,218
And just the idea of being able to trust a person interpersonally

1347
01:22:23,538 --> 01:22:26,298
connected, you know, versus a stranger on the other side of the world.

1348
01:22:26,618 --> 01:22:30,478
Um, it has to start from observation there.

1349
01:22:30,538 --> 01:22:33,188
I believe something like trust takes time.

1350
01:22:33,558 --> 01:22:35,418
So it's a human concept.

1351
01:22:35,868 --> 01:22:36,508
It's there.

1352
01:22:36,508 --> 01:22:37,628
It affects everybody.

1353
01:22:37,668 --> 01:22:41,978
Like, I don't believe anybody on this planet is not affected by the.

1354
01:22:42,383 --> 01:22:46,443
Presence or lack of trust around them in multiple different ways.

1355
01:22:46,473 --> 01:22:48,393
Many of them they may not even perceive.

1356
01:22:48,703 --> 01:22:50,023
You know, I could give you a ladder.

1357
01:22:50,023 --> 01:22:54,613
I could climb up a ladder next on up to a roof, and you could watch me do it.

1358
01:22:54,863 --> 01:22:57,423
And you could just trust that ladder just through your observation.

1359
01:22:57,653 --> 01:23:00,323
But maybe I walked on it a certain way you didn't see.

1360
01:23:00,493 --> 01:23:02,363
And if you walk on it the wrong way, it'll break.

1361
01:23:02,383 --> 01:23:04,243
You know, like there's a secret, right?

1362
01:23:04,243 --> 01:23:07,403
But I say to you, no, I use this ladder every day, and you already know me.

1363
01:23:07,663 --> 01:23:09,843
And you go, oh, and you didn't watch me walk up.

1364
01:23:10,368 --> 01:23:11,678
And I said, no, it's safe.

1365
01:23:11,688 --> 01:23:12,548
You can walk up it.

1366
01:23:12,868 --> 01:23:17,988
Because you've built up a level of trust that I've acted with good conscience.

1367
01:23:17,988 --> 01:23:19,908
I haven't been shown to have lied.

1368
01:23:19,938 --> 01:23:22,508
Again, truth and lying is, is part of trust.

1369
01:23:22,578 --> 01:23:27,108
It's a, it's a concept we understand as humans, but it's not a physical thing.

1370
01:23:27,118 --> 01:23:28,238
It's not molecules involved.

1371
01:23:28,308 --> 01:23:29,228
It's thoughts.

1372
01:23:29,238 --> 01:23:29,928
It's feelings.

1373
01:23:29,928 --> 01:23:32,898
It's, it's how we have to get along in this world.

1374
01:23:32,938 --> 01:23:35,348
We have to find the way to trust.

1375
01:23:35,408 --> 01:23:38,838
And we do it by, you know, interacting.

1376
01:23:39,143 --> 01:23:43,673
By, by reputation from somebody else, like I get customers all the time because

1377
01:23:43,683 --> 01:23:47,623
one of my customers said, no, you got to hire Jim, and it's my reputation,

1378
01:23:47,633 --> 01:23:51,423
my trust built up with the one, their trust built up with each other, that

1379
01:23:51,423 --> 01:23:55,043
allows the person who doesn't even know me to sort of already trust me before he

1380
01:23:55,043 --> 01:23:56,723
even hires me, at least at some level.

1381
01:23:57,203 --> 01:23:59,613
And it's just, you know, How do you measure this?

1382
01:23:59,793 --> 01:24:01,233
How do you quantify it?

1383
01:24:01,243 --> 01:24:05,773
Where does it reside in the world of molecules and energy?

1384
01:24:06,063 --> 01:24:08,073
Um, is it a type of first principle?

1385
01:24:08,093 --> 01:24:10,183
These are the kind of thoughts that I have when I listen to you

1386
01:24:10,183 --> 01:24:13,733
talking to other people about other stuff, and I'm gonna, I gotta talk

1387
01:24:13,733 --> 01:24:15,743
to Knut about some of this stuff.

1388
01:24:15,923 --> 01:24:16,463
So here we are.

1389
01:24:17,483 --> 01:24:22,253
Well, I think Bitcoin, in a sense, is the quantification of trust.

1390
01:24:22,573 --> 01:24:23,123
That's all it

1391
01:24:23,183 --> 01:24:24,063
Hey, there you go.

1392
01:24:24,773 --> 01:24:25,343
It's a good one.

1393
01:24:26,123 --> 01:24:30,773
Yeah, that's, that's about as, uh, as good as it gets, uh,

1394
01:24:30,803 --> 01:24:32,533
in terms of quantifying trust.

1395
01:24:33,233 --> 01:24:37,893
Because like, if you build it on trust and the map, you let the map defy the

1396
01:24:37,893 --> 01:24:43,363
territory, like how much, how much, much more trustworthy than that can you be?

1397
01:24:44,188 --> 01:24:46,368
I don't see a way to be more trustworthy.

1398
01:24:46,418 --> 01:24:51,088
Like, that's, I act as if Bitcoin exists.

1399
01:24:51,088 --> 01:24:52,328
I trust the ledger.

1400
01:24:54,358 --> 01:24:55,188
I trust mathematics.

1401
01:24:55,408 --> 01:24:59,968
No, no, I verify because I trust mathematics, I guess.

1402
01:25:00,133 --> 01:25:02,163
Well, we do have that going for us as well.

1403
01:25:02,163 --> 01:25:07,148
It's just such a, a deep, uh, way of thinking about how this all has

1404
01:25:07,148 --> 01:25:08,628
evolved, how we've all come here.

1405
01:25:08,808 --> 01:25:11,698
I, I think, I'm sure this isn't the first time you've heard this,

1406
01:25:11,748 --> 01:25:16,963
but I think, I think people are Bitcoiners before they find Bitcoin.

1407
01:25:17,233 --> 01:25:22,403
That is to say, there are a lot of people, I would say this, hardcore Bitcoiners

1408
01:25:22,403 --> 01:25:26,713
that really see the uniqueness, the depth, the importance of what it means

1409
01:25:26,713 --> 01:25:32,523
to us as humans, have always been, they would have, they were, they were going

1410
01:25:32,523 --> 01:25:36,323
to gravitate towards Bitcoin because it aligns with who they are, essentially.

1411
01:25:36,323 --> 01:25:39,688
They, They already were trustworthy, honorable people.

1412
01:25:39,688 --> 01:25:43,428
I find so many people in Bitcoin are hard workers that, that

1413
01:25:43,488 --> 01:25:45,118
don't want to cheat anybody.

1414
01:25:45,168 --> 01:25:49,348
And it's the, it's the discovery of Bitcoin that allows them to gravitate

1415
01:25:49,418 --> 01:25:52,408
stronger towards it because it aligns with who they already are.

1416
01:25:52,668 --> 01:25:57,018
Just as an example for me, as a kid growing up, I always questioned authority.

1417
01:25:57,598 --> 01:26:02,028
Because I grew up with, for whatever reason, the molecules in

1418
01:26:02,028 --> 01:26:05,908
my brain caused me to be curious about how things work inside.

1419
01:26:05,908 --> 01:26:07,268
I took shit apart as a kid.

1420
01:26:07,268 --> 01:26:08,478
I wanted to look at the gears.

1421
01:26:08,978 --> 01:26:12,048
So I was just fascinated by how things worked and that caused me to

1422
01:26:12,048 --> 01:26:16,378
always look at everything that I could from the most logical perspective.

1423
01:26:16,418 --> 01:26:17,808
Okay, why is this happening?

1424
01:26:18,368 --> 01:26:19,718
Who's making it happen?

1425
01:26:20,018 --> 01:26:21,658
Why is this rule in place?

1426
01:26:21,728 --> 01:26:22,968
Authority says do this.

1427
01:26:23,048 --> 01:26:23,848
I go, why?

1428
01:26:24,668 --> 01:26:27,088
I was fine until you came along.

1429
01:26:27,238 --> 01:26:28,958
Now you are making me stop.

1430
01:26:29,288 --> 01:26:30,668
What am I, who am I hurting?

1431
01:26:30,678 --> 01:26:32,078
What's the rule for this and that?

1432
01:26:32,528 --> 01:26:33,448
Perfect example.

1433
01:26:33,448 --> 01:26:35,398
You guys are gonna love this and hate this at the same time.

1434
01:26:36,288 --> 01:26:39,478
I went on the beach this, over the weekend, four wheel driving.

1435
01:26:39,838 --> 01:26:42,508
You always let your air out of your tires so that you're

1436
01:26:42,508 --> 01:26:43,918
not going to sink in the sand.

1437
01:26:43,918 --> 01:26:45,048
You get better traction that way.

1438
01:26:45,518 --> 01:26:48,458
The beach that I was driving on, when you come off the beach, there is a

1439
01:26:48,488 --> 01:26:52,978
public air hose there that you could fill your tires up by, but it was closed.

1440
01:26:53,028 --> 01:26:54,898
It's winter, maybe they're doing maintenance.

1441
01:26:55,148 --> 01:26:56,158
I didn't think much of it.

1442
01:26:57,058 --> 01:26:58,648
I'm condensing this story.

1443
01:26:58,698 --> 01:26:59,628
Hours later.

1444
01:26:59,968 --> 01:27:02,858
I know there's another one, not too far away.

1445
01:27:03,698 --> 01:27:07,388
Both of them are inside of state parks.

1446
01:27:08,008 --> 01:27:10,028
The property is owned by the state of New York.

1447
01:27:10,248 --> 01:27:11,228
They close at dusk.

1448
01:27:12,288 --> 01:27:15,878
You could drive right up to these state parks, and they're not

1449
01:27:15,878 --> 01:27:17,718
closed with a chain and a lock.

1450
01:27:17,718 --> 01:27:19,438
It's usually like some cones in the way.

1451
01:27:19,448 --> 01:27:21,023
You can go around them if you want to.

1452
01:27:21,563 --> 01:27:24,233
So I go to this other place where I know there's another public air

1453
01:27:24,233 --> 01:27:28,193
hose, and I decide I'm going to go around the little plastic cone

1454
01:27:28,193 --> 01:27:29,843
in the street and go get some air.

1455
01:27:30,363 --> 01:27:33,743
And the air hose is also shut off over there.

1456
01:27:34,083 --> 01:27:36,183
And so I'm like, ah crap, so I'm getting ready to drive out

1457
01:27:36,183 --> 01:27:37,433
and a police officer sees me.

1458
01:27:38,243 --> 01:27:43,575
And instead of recognizing the fact that I was trying to make it safer for

1459
01:27:43,575 --> 01:27:47,845
me to drive home, I was just getting air in my tire, I showed him my four

1460
01:27:47,845 --> 01:27:51,465
wheel drive permit, he could see my tires were low, he still gave me a

1461
01:27:51,465 --> 01:27:53,085
ticket for going around the cone.

1462
01:27:54,225 --> 01:27:59,145
Like, so I broke a man made rule that didn't hurt anybody.

1463
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:03,230
To be safer, for me and everybody around me on the highway.

1464
01:28:03,660 --> 01:28:09,340
But the guy couldn't stop from flexing his authority over me because I broke a rule

1465
01:28:09,650 --> 01:28:12,070
that's irrelevant to life on this planet.

1466
01:28:12,180 --> 01:28:13,130
Like, nobody was hurt.

1467
01:28:13,180 --> 01:28:14,590
I can't stand this shit,

1468
01:28:15,185 --> 01:28:16,565
Victimless crime, yeah.

1469
01:28:16,710 --> 01:28:17,660
a, it's fiat world.

1470
01:28:19,370 --> 01:28:22,500
You had, you would have loved me going off on the guy when it was done.

1471
01:28:23,050 --> 01:28:28,440
I called him a road pirate, and I say, you extort people, it's disgusting,

1472
01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:31,780
uh, he was short so I called him a little man, he had a little man

1473
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:36,490
complex, because I know they can't do anything on my words, he can give me the

1474
01:28:36,490 --> 01:28:38,570
citation for breaking the stupid rule.

1475
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:43,297
Another thing, in the states, and definitely in New York, every cop

1476
01:28:43,297 --> 01:28:44,820
will tell you to stay in your vehicle.

1477
01:28:45,427 --> 01:28:48,617
I suggest get out of your vehicle and stand in front of it on the side of

1478
01:28:48,617 --> 01:28:51,997
the road, because while you're in your vehicle, when they come back up to you

1479
01:28:51,997 --> 01:28:55,177
and shine a light in the vehicle, they're going to start poking around and ask you

1480
01:28:55,187 --> 01:28:57,967
what's that and this and the other thing, and then they're going to want to get

1481
01:28:57,967 --> 01:29:01,407
in your vehicle, and then they're going to want to abuse your, your individual

1482
01:29:01,517 --> 01:29:04,627
sovereignty and your rights to the extent they think they can get away with it.

1483
01:29:04,897 --> 01:29:06,927
So when I walked around the front of my truck and the guy said,

1484
01:29:06,947 --> 01:29:08,757
get back in your car, I said, no.

1485
01:29:09,227 --> 01:29:10,377
He said, get back in your car.

1486
01:29:10,377 --> 01:29:12,117
I said, I don't have to and you know it.

1487
01:29:12,817 --> 01:29:13,567
He didn't like that.

1488
01:29:13,697 --> 01:29:15,787
It's probably another reason he gave me the ticket.

1489
01:29:16,217 --> 01:29:20,917
But again, it's just, appeal to authority because somebody said, no, I want to see

1490
01:29:20,917 --> 01:29:24,467
the logic in it, what's, there's just too much of this shit in the world, sorry.

1491
01:29:24,557 --> 01:29:26,497
I have a feeling that cops in the U.

1492
01:29:26,497 --> 01:29:26,747
S.

1493
01:29:26,747 --> 01:29:28,747
do this a lot more than cops in Europe.

1494
01:29:29,397 --> 01:29:34,637
Like, it feels like the cops are ni like, uh, of course, depending on where you

1495
01:29:34,637 --> 01:29:39,237
are, and I think the cops were absolutely brutal here during, in some countries

1496
01:29:39,237 --> 01:29:44,317
during COVID, but in general, I feel like the cops aren't, aren't really abusing

1497
01:29:44,317 --> 01:29:46,687
their power as much as they are in the U.

1498
01:29:46,687 --> 01:29:46,917
S.

1499
01:29:47,067 --> 01:29:51,267
Like, then again, you have stronger rights there, like, I don't think people

1500
01:29:51,687 --> 01:29:57,437
People here, like, say no to the cops as often, and, like, tell them to fuck

1501
01:29:57,437 --> 01:29:59,547
off and stuff as often as Americans do.

1502
01:30:00,289 --> 01:30:03,949
I do, because, uh, I don't, I don't accept their authority over me.

1503
01:30:03,989 --> 01:30:07,239
I deal with it, and I put up with it to the extent I have to.

1504
01:30:07,239 --> 01:30:10,119
I didn't want to get arrested, so I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna like,

1505
01:30:10,129 --> 01:30:12,859
threaten the guy or anything, but I'm still gonna call him out on being a

1506
01:30:12,859 --> 01:30:14,319
road pirate, because that's what he is.

1507
01:30:14,489 --> 01:30:16,729
I mean, he just extorted some money out of me, because I'm

1508
01:30:16,749 --> 01:30:17,749
probably going to pay the fine.

1509
01:30:17,749 --> 01:30:20,819
It's cost me too much money to go to court and fight it, and I might not win anyway.

1510
01:30:21,249 --> 01:30:22,349
My time is more valuable.

1511
01:30:22,349 --> 01:30:24,069
I'll just give them a hundred bucks or whatever they want.

1512
01:30:25,019 --> 01:30:26,019
You know, it's just bullshit.

1513
01:30:26,339 --> 01:30:27,079
It's just whatever.

1514
01:30:27,839 --> 01:30:30,509
So, it all has, to me, it all has to make sense.

1515
01:30:30,839 --> 01:30:34,419
And this is why I like these types of discussions with people that

1516
01:30:34,419 --> 01:30:37,659
are into this kind of thought, you know, like, where's the logic here?

1517
01:30:37,659 --> 01:30:38,879
What's actually happening?

1518
01:30:39,189 --> 01:30:44,729
You know, we've talked about a lot of esoteric kind of obscure Uh, subject

1519
01:30:44,789 --> 01:30:47,489
matter in this conversation, but it's exactly why I wanted to talk to you.

1520
01:30:47,489 --> 01:30:48,949
I think it's very cool, you know?

1521
01:30:49,319 --> 01:30:50,089
So, anyway.

1522
01:30:50,559 --> 01:30:54,724
I, I think the, the, the notion that we all, uh, we, we were

1523
01:30:54,724 --> 01:30:56,974
bitcoiners before Bitcoin existed.

1524
01:30:56,974 --> 01:30:58,234
I think that's very true.

1525
01:30:58,239 --> 01:31:02,824
I think we find Bitcoin within ourselves, literally and metaphorically.

1526
01:31:03,434 --> 01:31:05,374
Uh, that's, that's what it is.

1527
01:31:05,379 --> 01:31:06,634
It's a journey of discovery.

1528
01:31:06,639 --> 01:31:06,859
That,

1529
01:32:22,373 --> 01:32:25,623
So, so I'm, I'm going to ask the question that Knut is always supposed

1530
01:32:25,623 --> 01:32:27,523
to ask at the beginning and never does.

1531
01:32:27,993 --> 01:32:31,593
Jim, can you please give us, can you give us an introduction to yourself

1532
01:32:31,593 --> 01:32:32,623
and how you got into Bitcoin?

1533
01:32:33,123 --> 01:32:33,893
Oh, sure.

1534
01:32:33,933 --> 01:32:38,123
Okay, so I, I alluded to it earlier, uh, so three touches for me.

1535
01:32:38,153 --> 01:32:40,753
I see a lot of people, it takes a couple touches, you gotta

1536
01:32:40,753 --> 01:32:42,153
hear about it and ignore it.

1537
01:32:42,483 --> 01:32:46,103
So a guy that was working for me, much younger than me, was into gaming

1538
01:32:46,103 --> 01:32:48,863
and computers in a different way than me, and he tells me about it.

1539
01:32:49,188 --> 01:32:52,288
To me, it's just gaming money and I didn't pay attention at all.

1540
01:32:52,668 --> 01:32:56,198
But then I'm in bed one night, flipping through Netflix when I

1541
01:32:56,198 --> 01:33:00,088
used to own a TV many years ago, and I see some kind of documentary

1542
01:33:00,088 --> 01:33:01,368
on Bitcoin and I'm just curious.

1543
01:33:01,388 --> 01:33:02,328
I like documentaries.

1544
01:33:02,358 --> 01:33:03,408
I like learning.

1545
01:33:04,358 --> 01:33:10,598
So I flip it on and I learn about Bitcoin in a way that I had no idea.

1546
01:33:10,908 --> 01:33:15,253
But the The gist of the, or at least the angle that was being portrayed

1547
01:33:15,253 --> 01:33:21,043
was, uh, He had the, sorry about the train in the background, um, uh,

1548
01:33:22,323 --> 01:33:23,033
Train of thought.

1549
01:33:23,713 --> 01:33:25,493
hear, I hear your train of thought.

1550
01:33:26,303 --> 01:33:29,213
well, my office is right next to a train track and the trains go by

1551
01:33:29,213 --> 01:33:30,143
all the time and blow the whistle.

1552
01:33:30,343 --> 01:33:34,573
Anyway, Um, so, uh, oh shoot, what was I just saying?

1553
01:33:34,583 --> 01:33:36,113
Damn it, I totally lost my train of thought.

1554
01:33:37,443 --> 01:33:38,173
Exactly.

1555
01:33:38,193 --> 01:33:39,293
It, it went away.

1556
01:33:39,988 --> 01:33:44,318
Alright, so now, sorry, the, yeah, my train of thought

1557
01:33:44,318 --> 01:33:45,478
went with the train going by.

1558
01:33:45,678 --> 01:33:49,668
No, so these guys, they're showing mining, these guys are mining Bitcoin

1559
01:33:49,708 --> 01:33:53,448
in their living rooms with computer peripherals and wires everywhere,

1560
01:33:53,448 --> 01:33:55,128
and I'm going, I could never do that.

1561
01:33:55,168 --> 01:33:56,898
I could barely run my laptop or something.

1562
01:33:57,428 --> 01:34:00,168
So, to me, Bitcoin was like computer nerd stuff.

1563
01:34:00,418 --> 01:34:03,538
It was, I was a little more curious about it because it was a type of money.

1564
01:34:03,788 --> 01:34:07,323
But it all looked like Know, a really small group of people were

1565
01:34:07,323 --> 01:34:10,583
into this thing and it, I just couldn't see where it could go.

1566
01:34:10,883 --> 01:34:15,324
And then there was this Ted talk of this girl, um, Betina Warberg.

1567
01:34:15,353 --> 01:34:16,783
You could look it up, right?

1568
01:34:16,783 --> 01:34:21,883
It's a just a, you know, half hour TED talk and it's about blockchain, right?

1569
01:34:21,888 --> 01:34:23,923
Or maybe Bitcoin was in the title.

1570
01:34:23,923 --> 01:34:24,733
So I listened to it.

1571
01:34:25,783 --> 01:34:30,523
She didn't really get Bitcoin because in the end her, her whole thesis

1572
01:34:30,523 --> 01:34:34,303
was, it's all about blockchain, but what the, the line that got me was.

1573
01:34:34,773 --> 01:34:38,863
You can trust this network without trusting any of the people involved in it.

1574
01:34:38,953 --> 01:34:41,103
And I went, I gotta learn about that.

1575
01:34:41,133 --> 01:34:42,623
What does that actually mean?

1576
01:34:42,963 --> 01:34:44,883
Because I built an entire business on trust.

1577
01:34:44,883 --> 01:34:48,003
I work on summer homes in the winter when they're not there.

1578
01:34:48,333 --> 01:34:49,623
And the people have to trust me.

1579
01:34:49,893 --> 01:34:53,423
And I've gained their trust through many different ways including Before

1580
01:34:53,423 --> 01:34:56,143
digital cameras, I used to take pictures and get double prints and

1581
01:34:56,153 --> 01:34:57,603
mail them a copy of the prints.

1582
01:34:57,843 --> 01:35:00,123
So a week after I built something, they can at least see it was

1583
01:35:00,153 --> 01:35:03,353
built instead of having to wait five more months until summer.

1584
01:35:03,353 --> 01:35:05,803
And they actually went back to their summer house to see it.

1585
01:35:06,363 --> 01:35:10,183
And I was able to build up trust and I recognize it's my business only lasts

1586
01:35:10,183 --> 01:35:14,133
if I, if these people continue to trust me and continue to hire me, which means.

1587
01:35:14,383 --> 01:35:16,093
I can't really ever screw up.

1588
01:35:16,493 --> 01:35:21,223
So you gotta tell a really, really fine line in the way you run a business.

1589
01:35:21,793 --> 01:35:25,283
So this is a really good story that really, really hit home for me.

1590
01:35:25,323 --> 01:35:29,583
As I'm gaining brand new customers, I work in an area, you may have heard me talk

1591
01:35:29,603 --> 01:35:33,013
about it, a place called Fire Island, and it's a barrier island on the south shore

1592
01:35:33,013 --> 01:35:35,893
of Long Island, and the people that own homes there, they all know each other.

1593
01:35:36,183 --> 01:35:40,153
So when you come into town as the new contractor, which I was 35 years ago,

1594
01:35:40,943 --> 01:35:44,643
first, a homeowner hired me, liked me so much they told all their friends.

1595
01:35:44,673 --> 01:35:46,633
Like 20 other friends in the first year.

1596
01:35:46,633 --> 01:35:49,513
I got all these customers because they're all looking for somebody

1597
01:35:49,523 --> 01:35:52,113
maybe a little better than the last shit that they hired or whatever.

1598
01:35:52,463 --> 01:35:54,533
And I asked every one of them, Why are you hiring me?

1599
01:35:54,973 --> 01:35:57,433
What happened that the other guy isn't getting the call?

1600
01:35:57,463 --> 01:35:58,053
I'm new.

1601
01:35:58,893 --> 01:36:01,553
Oh, well, oh, my friend told me and you did a good job for him.

1602
01:36:01,938 --> 01:36:04,858
One lady said to me, well, I like the other guy.

1603
01:36:04,858 --> 01:36:05,608
He was always good.

1604
01:36:05,608 --> 01:36:06,708
He always finished my work.

1605
01:36:06,708 --> 01:36:07,728
It always came out good.

1606
01:36:08,218 --> 01:36:12,768
But, a couple years ago, he asked, he said to me, the job was done, and

1607
01:36:12,798 --> 01:36:14,128
he asked me to send in the payment.

1608
01:36:14,138 --> 01:36:16,298
So I did, but when I came out in the spring, it wasn't done.

1609
01:36:16,628 --> 01:36:20,318
He hadn't got back to it, and he forgot, and I just don't want

1610
01:36:20,318 --> 01:36:21,398
to work with people like that.

1611
01:36:21,708 --> 01:36:25,278
And then I had the further thought that, well, I can easily get away

1612
01:36:25,278 --> 01:36:28,318
with it, I can see why the guy did it, these people are not around for months.

1613
01:36:28,478 --> 01:36:32,038
But I was smart enough, at least I like to think I am, that I had the further thought

1614
01:36:32,038 --> 01:36:35,958
that I could do that to a customer, and their neighbor, who I don't know, could go

1615
01:36:35,958 --> 01:36:39,538
to their house in the winter for whatever reason, and look over at the project

1616
01:36:39,618 --> 01:36:42,538
I'm in the middle of, and call their neighbor and go, Hey, I see you're getting

1617
01:36:42,538 --> 01:36:46,448
some new decks built, and the homeowner says What do you mean getting built?

1618
01:36:46,468 --> 01:36:47,438
They're done.

1619
01:36:47,628 --> 01:36:48,958
Oh no, I saw them working.

1620
01:36:48,998 --> 01:36:50,388
No, they look about half done.

1621
01:36:50,688 --> 01:36:52,268
And I'm caught in a lie, right?

1622
01:36:52,308 --> 01:36:55,048
I don't need it because you don't know how you're going to get caught in the lie.

1623
01:36:55,468 --> 01:36:56,508
You just don't know.

1624
01:36:56,818 --> 01:36:59,388
And I just said, never, just don't do that.

1625
01:36:59,708 --> 01:37:02,028
And it's really not that hard not to lie.

1626
01:37:02,038 --> 01:37:03,748
It's probably harder to keep track of your lies.

1627
01:37:04,618 --> 01:37:06,618
So you just do what you say, right?

1628
01:37:06,618 --> 01:37:09,378
If you're not going to get it done by Friday, when they think, call them up

1629
01:37:09,378 --> 01:37:11,978
on Wednesday and go, look, it's not looking like I'm going to be done.

1630
01:37:12,028 --> 01:37:12,848
Please don't get mad at me.

1631
01:37:13,118 --> 01:37:13,478
Guess what?

1632
01:37:13,478 --> 01:37:14,298
They don't get mad.

1633
01:37:14,833 --> 01:37:15,893
It's not that hard.

1634
01:37:16,423 --> 01:37:18,413
So, it's pretty simple, straightforward.

1635
01:37:18,443 --> 01:37:21,823
Treat people like you want to be treated, honor your contracts, do the

1636
01:37:21,823 --> 01:37:23,603
job you said, the quality you said.

1637
01:37:23,843 --> 01:37:24,763
It's pretty easy.

1638
01:37:25,133 --> 01:37:28,573
Uh, so, you know, I've never really advertised in all these years.

1639
01:37:28,603 --> 01:37:31,573
I've never had a website for a construction company with photos

1640
01:37:31,613 --> 01:37:34,113
of all the beautiful jobs I've done because I've never needed it.

1641
01:37:34,283 --> 01:37:35,593
I always keep getting work.

1642
01:37:35,593 --> 01:37:37,313
People always just keep calling me.

1643
01:37:37,893 --> 01:37:39,073
35 years straight now.

1644
01:37:39,073 --> 01:37:39,713
It's pretty wild.

1645
01:37:39,773 --> 01:37:40,663
But it's simple.

1646
01:37:40,693 --> 01:37:41,353
It's simple.

1647
01:37:41,503 --> 01:37:43,223
It's how I, you know, it's why I believe.

1648
01:37:43,498 --> 01:37:46,908
Bitcoin is so important because it's immutable truth.

1649
01:37:47,248 --> 01:37:48,698
The record can never be altered.

1650
01:37:48,758 --> 01:37:53,778
It's just this amazing It's like a compass, like always pointing north.

1651
01:37:54,008 --> 01:37:57,728
Like you can't fuck with Bitcoin beyond its truth mechanism.

1652
01:37:57,758 --> 01:37:59,368
It's just an amazing thing.

1653
01:37:59,498 --> 01:38:00,978
Blows my mind every time I think about it.

1654
01:38:01,519 --> 01:38:05,029
No, no, like being honest, being honest is way more important

1655
01:38:05,029 --> 01:38:06,159
than people think it is.

1656
01:38:06,539 --> 01:38:09,459
And I know, I know my mind plays tricks on me.

1657
01:38:09,489 --> 01:38:14,239
I know that I, I, my memory fails me sometimes and that I remember

1658
01:38:14,259 --> 01:38:16,899
things in an exaggerated way.

1659
01:38:17,359 --> 01:38:20,929
And that's why I think I'm a good storyteller, because if I tell a story

1660
01:38:20,939 --> 01:38:24,069
from my life, it's always a little bit better than it actually was.

1661
01:38:24,789 --> 01:38:28,319
And some, my brothers are good at pointing this out to me, because they

1662
01:38:28,319 --> 01:38:34,639
know me so well, but it is sincere, because I'm not trying to lie, like, I

1663
01:38:34,669 --> 01:38:37,829
tell things the way I think they happen.

1664
01:38:38,364 --> 01:38:42,894
And sometimes, you know, a memory isn't perfect, so, but, but I think this,

1665
01:38:44,184 --> 01:38:49,884
having this honesty in your core is, is something that unites us, true Bitcoin

1666
01:38:49,924 --> 01:38:55,424
maxis, in a way, and, and I, I think we feel it, like, in, in one another, I think

1667
01:38:55,424 --> 01:38:59,204
we know that we're, we're trustworthy, you know, and that we will keep our

1668
01:38:59,204 --> 01:39:04,354
word and, and stuff, and, and, you know, ending up in a, in a, in a position in

1669
01:39:04,354 --> 01:39:08,824
life, at a point in life where you can wake up every day and just be yourself.

1670
01:39:09,429 --> 01:39:10,869
How fucking awesome isn't that?

1671
01:39:11,969 --> 01:39:19,739
Like, it's the best thing ever, like, because, and I used to have a position

1672
01:39:19,739 --> 01:39:25,189
in HR, I was an HR manager for a shipping company for a while, and in that position,

1673
01:39:25,579 --> 01:39:31,754
I had to Sell ideas to people, like, I had to tell them that it was a good

1674
01:39:31,754 --> 01:39:36,864
idea for them to, to go away for three weeks on this job somewhere, and I had

1675
01:39:36,874 --> 01:39:42,834
to sort of sell the job as something that it really, I, I couldn't be, well,

1676
01:39:42,854 --> 01:39:47,174
I tried to be 100 percent honest, but it was hard, because, like, maybe they

1677
01:39:47,174 --> 01:39:52,644
would have said no, and my job was to make them say yes, Say yes to things.

1678
01:39:52,894 --> 01:40:00,844
So, so I had to be diplomatic and find ways of, and you realize about things

1679
01:40:00,844 --> 01:40:06,874
about yourself that you can be very, I think all humans with brains have

1680
01:40:06,874 --> 01:40:12,884
a capacity to be manipulative to a certain extent, but I never liked that.

1681
01:40:12,964 --> 01:40:15,544
I was sort of afraid of, of that knowledge.

1682
01:40:15,564 --> 01:40:22,659
I mean, I liked when I, um, you When I could perform a task, when I could solve

1683
01:40:22,679 --> 01:40:27,402
a problem and actually get a crew to a boat in time, and even though I was

1684
01:40:27,402 --> 01:40:32,669
short on time and it was COVID and Brexit happening at the same time, I like solving

1685
01:40:32,669 --> 01:40:37,369
problems, so when I, so when I solve the problem, but I didn't always like

1686
01:40:37,369 --> 01:40:42,139
the means I was forced to use to solve the problem, if you know what I mean,

1687
01:40:42,744 --> 01:40:46,794
I do and I give you a quick story about a little of my history.

1688
01:40:46,874 --> 01:40:51,704
In my 20s, I worked for a financial services company and I had a stockbroker's

1689
01:40:51,734 --> 01:40:55,884
license, we sold insurance products, we helped people set up pension plans,

1690
01:40:56,244 --> 01:41:02,304
mutual funds, so I have this previous financial background and in that field,

1691
01:41:02,624 --> 01:41:07,794
you're dealing with contracts, you're dealing with a lot of Um, non physical

1692
01:41:08,014 --> 01:41:12,184
ideas, you know, like investments are more ideas than, like, I build somebody

1693
01:41:12,184 --> 01:41:13,464
a deck on the back of their house.

1694
01:41:13,734 --> 01:41:14,464
It's a physical thing.

1695
01:41:15,014 --> 01:41:20,134
And, uh, for me to understand what it was we were representing, the different

1696
01:41:20,134 --> 01:41:23,194
products we were representing, I had to go deep into how they worked.

1697
01:41:23,194 --> 01:41:27,784
I read technical documents on all this stuff, and I felt, I felt compelled

1698
01:41:28,244 --> 01:41:32,104
to tell people, when they were considering buying one of these things,

1699
01:41:32,544 --> 01:41:38,004
All this nuanced, important stuff that I knew about and better salesmen

1700
01:41:38,004 --> 01:41:41,214
than me would tell me all the time they don't want to know this stuff.

1701
01:41:42,544 --> 01:41:47,574
That's not how you sell and I felt like it was cheating them by not presenting

1702
01:41:47,574 --> 01:41:51,849
them with All the facts I used to make my choice about the validity of a thing.

1703
01:41:52,429 --> 01:41:55,109
And it was a real conflict, and it's part of the reason I got out.

1704
01:41:55,369 --> 01:41:58,339
I was listening to motivational tapes driving in my car.

1705
01:41:58,619 --> 01:42:01,509
Brian Tracy, never forget this, I've told this story more than once.

1706
01:42:01,829 --> 01:42:05,839
He's saying, if you're a salesman, which I essentially was, what should

1707
01:42:05,839 --> 01:42:07,139
everyone is, by the way.

1708
01:42:07,314 --> 01:42:09,834
I don't know, yeah, at some, yeah, at some level, absolutely.

1709
01:42:10,384 --> 01:42:14,514
If you're going to sell an item, either tangible or intangible, he said, if

1710
01:42:14,514 --> 01:42:18,024
you're someone who likes to work with your brain into reading and concepts and

1711
01:42:18,074 --> 01:42:21,564
math and that, maybe if you're going to be a salesman, sell an intangible product.

1712
01:42:22,004 --> 01:42:25,659
But if you're somebody that likes working with their hands, Building things, and I

1713
01:42:25,659 --> 01:42:27,379
start perking up, like, wait, that's me.

1714
01:42:27,869 --> 01:42:28,959
Oh, he's talking to me now.

1715
01:42:29,249 --> 01:42:31,049
He says, you should sell a tangible product.

1716
01:42:31,049 --> 01:42:32,239
And I went, ah, shit, I gotta quit.

1717
01:42:32,319 --> 01:42:35,389
I mean, literally, within a second, I go, this career is over.

1718
01:42:35,579 --> 01:42:37,039
Right now, I gotta figure out how to switch.

1719
01:42:37,419 --> 01:42:39,509
I knew, and I'd spent five years doing that.

1720
01:42:39,709 --> 01:42:40,519
And I was doing good.

1721
01:42:40,519 --> 01:42:41,219
I had lots of clients.

1722
01:42:41,219 --> 01:42:42,209
I was making more money.

1723
01:42:42,419 --> 01:42:44,559
And I immediately realized why I wasn't happy.

1724
01:42:44,969 --> 01:42:46,089
I wasn't loving it.

1725
01:42:46,089 --> 01:42:46,939
I was making money.

1726
01:42:46,939 --> 01:42:48,389
I thought I was doing the right thing.

1727
01:42:48,569 --> 01:42:50,779
I wore a suit and tie every day, which I hated.

1728
01:42:51,194 --> 01:42:53,474
Because I'm just not that, I'm a jeans and t shirt kind of guy.

1729
01:42:54,174 --> 01:42:57,434
I knew I had to switch and I started my own construction company and thankfully I

1730
01:42:57,434 --> 01:43:02,074
had a lot of experience writing contracts, making appointments with people, closing

1731
01:43:02,074 --> 01:43:06,434
sales with people, but I could sell them on something I had complete control over.

1732
01:43:06,754 --> 01:43:09,674
I could build them the thing that I knew I could build.

1733
01:43:10,004 --> 01:43:14,374
Because I had come, so before that, in my teens and early 20s, I was in the

1734
01:43:14,374 --> 01:43:18,114
construction industry, getting dirty every day, saw rich guys with suit and

1735
01:43:18,144 --> 01:43:22,644
ties, and said, I gotta go into some other field, and I picked that one, and

1736
01:43:22,644 --> 01:43:25,984
ended up not liking it after about, I think I stayed in total of about eight

1737
01:43:26,004 --> 01:43:29,314
years, so right towards the end of my 20s, I was done with that, and I had

1738
01:43:29,314 --> 01:43:32,164
already established this construction company, and I was doing little side

1739
01:43:32,164 --> 01:43:36,529
jobs, and when I heard that tape Like I say that, I said, I am going full time

1740
01:43:36,569 --> 01:43:40,219
into this construction, I'm going to make something out of it, and here I am 35

1741
01:43:40,219 --> 01:43:43,329
years later, and I'm, I was way happier the whole time, I felt like I had way

1742
01:43:43,329 --> 01:43:48,119
more freedom, I was in way more control of the end product, and I got to control

1743
01:43:48,119 --> 01:43:52,009
the entire process from meeting the customer, just to whatever extent I could.

1744
01:43:52,724 --> 01:43:55,664
I got to interact with the customer, decide if I even

1745
01:43:55,664 --> 01:43:58,384
wanted, I walked away from people because I didn't even like them.

1746
01:43:59,064 --> 01:44:02,874
I, I, they wanted me to do their work and I, you know, either I did some and then

1747
01:44:02,874 --> 01:44:06,214
realized they were an idiot or I just said, nah, I think I'm going to pass on

1748
01:44:06,214 --> 01:44:07,754
this job because I didn't like the person.

1749
01:44:08,134 --> 01:44:12,814
Because I had that, you know, like I had this new perception on how to do things

1750
01:44:12,824 --> 01:44:17,454
and I want, I just wanted to be in control of my life more and I wanted to be able

1751
01:44:17,454 --> 01:44:21,514
to sell something that I knew I could provide that was nothing hidden about it.

1752
01:44:22,044 --> 01:44:25,344
It's just been easier for me in that rece, in that respect, and

1753
01:44:25,344 --> 01:44:26,964
when now that I work in Bitcoin.

1754
01:44:27,764 --> 01:44:31,934
Um, you know, before we started recording, uh, you guys both know I work with

1755
01:44:31,934 --> 01:44:36,644
the Bitcoin advisor and we help people take their Bitcoin off of exchanges

1756
01:44:36,649 --> 01:44:38,144
and put it into collaborative custody.

1757
01:44:38,149 --> 01:44:38,744
Multisig.

1758
01:44:39,484 --> 01:44:42,454
What I loved about this, when Peter Dunworth asked me if I was,

1759
01:44:42,454 --> 01:44:44,765
if I was interested in working with these guys, which I was.

1760
01:44:45,129 --> 01:44:48,909
I'm honored beyond belief that he even asked me, but he didn't know it at

1761
01:44:48,909 --> 01:44:52,189
the time, but when I was back in that financial services business, we helped

1762
01:44:52,199 --> 01:44:55,659
people do a lot of estate planning because we sold things like life insurance.

1763
01:44:56,039 --> 01:44:59,339
We also did something known as a buy sell agreement where you have

1764
01:44:59,639 --> 01:45:01,309
two, two people own a business.

1765
01:45:01,319 --> 01:45:04,649
If one guy dies, The other guy doesn't want to be partners with his wife.

1766
01:45:04,959 --> 01:45:08,099
So you buy insurance, life insurance on each other, you have an agreement that

1767
01:45:08,099 --> 01:45:11,629
pays off the wife for the piece of the business and you get the other thing.

1768
01:45:11,829 --> 01:45:13,359
So now we're into estate planning.

1769
01:45:13,469 --> 01:45:14,659
And I did a lot of this.

1770
01:45:14,659 --> 01:45:18,249
I help people understand wills and trusts and these types of things.

1771
01:45:18,489 --> 01:45:20,569
And this is exactly what we do at the Bitcoin Advisor.

1772
01:45:20,569 --> 01:45:26,619
So, um, I love the fact that I'm back in a business where Um, advising people

1773
01:45:26,659 --> 01:45:31,879
on how to take care of themselves, but the product that we're selling is not

1774
01:45:31,879 --> 01:45:38,199
something we, it's, it's not some really deep financial product with all kinds of,

1775
01:45:38,269 --> 01:45:41,029
um, you know, fine print at the bottom.

1776
01:45:41,509 --> 01:45:41,799
Right?

1777
01:45:41,829 --> 01:45:48,139
The Bitcoin protocol gives us the opportunity to do a thing that is

1778
01:45:48,149 --> 01:45:50,059
unique to the Bitcoin protocol.

1779
01:45:50,409 --> 01:45:52,589
Like, we didn't invent multisig.

1780
01:45:52,869 --> 01:45:55,009
We didn't invent estate planning.

1781
01:45:55,569 --> 01:45:57,829
We didn't invent collaborative custody.

1782
01:45:58,049 --> 01:46:00,069
These concepts were all out there.

1783
01:46:00,329 --> 01:46:04,499
We're just Bundling them in a way that you can come to us and we're going

1784
01:46:04,499 --> 01:46:08,589
to help you make sure that you can control your Bitcoin off of exchanges

1785
01:46:08,649 --> 01:46:10,549
in a safe way with some backup.

1786
01:46:10,999 --> 01:46:14,379
Worst case scenario, your family gets it exactly how you need to.

1787
01:46:14,379 --> 01:46:17,599
We have something called an estate planning protocol, which is a whole bunch

1788
01:46:17,599 --> 01:46:22,003
of technical information to give to like a lawyer who's going to write up a trust.

1789
01:46:22,003 --> 01:46:25,619
And in that trust you want to reference an asset called Bitcoin.

1790
01:46:25,819 --> 01:46:26,989
Well, what do you do with it?

1791
01:46:26,999 --> 01:46:27,809
How do you find it?

1792
01:46:27,829 --> 01:46:28,409
Where is it?

1793
01:46:28,429 --> 01:46:29,319
Who do you call?

1794
01:46:29,529 --> 01:46:31,259
Then, you know, where is the keys?

1795
01:46:31,269 --> 01:46:32,729
What's the derivation path?

1796
01:46:32,839 --> 01:46:37,679
You know, all this stuff that is part of the protocol of Bitcoin

1797
01:46:37,719 --> 01:46:39,229
that allows you to do this stuff.

1798
01:46:39,509 --> 01:46:43,939
We're now out there teaching people and offering it to them, giving it to

1799
01:46:43,939 --> 01:46:49,639
them, solving a problem, providing a service that is native to the protocol.

1800
01:46:49,639 --> 01:46:52,269
We're simply just piggybacking on something that exists

1801
01:46:52,289 --> 01:46:53,339
and works a certain way.

1802
01:46:53,389 --> 01:46:53,709
Period.

1803
01:46:53,759 --> 01:46:54,169
That's it.

1804
01:46:54,559 --> 01:46:57,914
And I love that because I'm not going to get rubbed by the Bitcoin

1805
01:46:57,954 --> 01:47:01,864
protocol like I did with certain products we sold when they changed

1806
01:47:01,934 --> 01:47:04,064
the rules or changed the price.

1807
01:47:04,294 --> 01:47:06,324
Like we sold medical insurance to companies.

1808
01:47:06,684 --> 01:47:08,414
Oh my god, that was the worst product.

1809
01:47:08,454 --> 01:47:10,054
It was constantly going up in price.

1810
01:47:10,214 --> 01:47:12,694
Well, they were pulling back on what they would cover.

1811
01:47:13,124 --> 01:47:16,424
We all know the medical, medical industrial complex worldwide

1812
01:47:16,424 --> 01:47:17,664
is broken all over the place.

1813
01:47:17,664 --> 01:47:20,184
The incentives are horrible, especially here in the United States.

1814
01:47:20,684 --> 01:47:24,904
And so I couldn't stand having so little control over the products I was selling.

1815
01:47:25,424 --> 01:47:28,714
In this case, I don't feel that's the case because the Bitcoin protocol is the

1816
01:47:28,744 --> 01:47:33,124
underlying thing that I don't get to do anything with it other than align with it.

1817
01:47:33,844 --> 01:47:34,424
So I love it.

1818
01:47:34,474 --> 01:47:35,424
I think it's awesome.

1819
01:47:35,509 --> 01:47:38,509
And in the end, the customer is the product and not in a

1820
01:47:38,509 --> 01:47:39,879
bad sense this time around.

1821
01:47:40,344 --> 01:47:40,674
no,

1822
01:47:40,999 --> 01:47:41,919
Because you're your Bitcoin.

1823
01:47:42,994 --> 01:47:46,804
To me, this is one of the best, I feel like it's one of the best positions

1824
01:47:46,814 --> 01:47:50,044
I could be in with my expertise in life, the things that I've learned,

1825
01:47:50,444 --> 01:47:52,184
because I'm so passionate about Bitcoin.

1826
01:47:52,664 --> 01:47:55,894
And because it's a bare instrument, it must be dealt with differently, not

1827
01:47:55,894 --> 01:47:59,804
only from a custodial standpoint, but from an estate planning standpoint.

1828
01:47:59,864 --> 01:48:03,984
Literally, you cannot just treat this like stocks at your brokerage account.

1829
01:48:04,054 --> 01:48:05,274
It doesn't work the same way.

1830
01:48:05,314 --> 01:48:07,954
And here's what's really critical.

1831
01:48:08,754 --> 01:48:12,394
You can leave assets to, let's say, your favorite son and

1832
01:48:12,394 --> 01:48:13,894
nothing to the siblings, right?

1833
01:48:14,339 --> 01:48:18,339
Or, you could leave it to all the siblings, but you put one person

1834
01:48:18,419 --> 01:48:20,529
administrator of your estate, right?

1835
01:48:21,699 --> 01:48:26,569
Somebody in the line of inheritance doesn't like the way the administrator

1836
01:48:26,589 --> 01:48:32,399
is distributing assets and goes to the court and forces The hand of the

1837
01:48:32,399 --> 01:48:34,389
administrator to do something differently.

1838
01:48:34,949 --> 01:48:35,269
Yeah.

1839
01:48:35,449 --> 01:48:39,309
Well, if the administrator controls the private keys to some Bitcoin,

1840
01:48:39,679 --> 01:48:41,539
whatever the court says is irrelevant.

1841
01:48:41,799 --> 01:48:46,779
If that person does not provide the Bitcoin, the heirs never actually

1842
01:48:46,779 --> 01:48:48,169
get it the way they wanted to.

1843
01:48:48,649 --> 01:48:53,869
And that can actually be done through time locks, um, all kinds of.

1844
01:48:54,949 --> 01:48:58,929
Scripting language within Bitcoin so that it's enforceable on chain and not

1845
01:48:58,929 --> 01:49:01,649
by a court, like outside of the protocol.

1846
01:49:01,969 --> 01:49:06,639
This is stuff that is really just starting to be explored in terms of

1847
01:49:06,639 --> 01:49:10,609
inheritance planning because the value of Bitcoin keeps going up and everybody's

1848
01:49:10,659 --> 01:49:12,889
Bitcoin now becomes much more important.

1849
01:49:13,334 --> 01:49:18,604
Uh, portion of their overall wealth that they want their family to inherit someday.

1850
01:49:18,614 --> 01:49:23,014
So, you know, it goes way beyond just the custodial, who's, who's in control

1851
01:49:23,014 --> 01:49:26,924
and who could, you know, if I lose my private key, is it gone forever?

1852
01:49:26,944 --> 01:49:31,174
I mean, we all know that, uh, multisig can help prevent that, but there's

1853
01:49:31,174 --> 01:49:32,544
a little bit more beyond that.

1854
01:49:32,604 --> 01:49:34,784
And, and that's what we're hoping to bring to the market.

1855
01:49:34,784 --> 01:49:37,374
And I think you're going to see this as a growing trend.

1856
01:49:37,439 --> 01:49:41,149
I think you'll see other players coming to the market to offer this service

1857
01:49:41,199 --> 01:49:42,489
because it's a ubiquitous service.

1858
01:49:42,529 --> 01:49:43,449
Everybody's going to need it.

1859
01:49:43,479 --> 01:49:45,179
You could have a quarter of a bitcoin now.

1860
01:49:45,369 --> 01:49:48,399
It could be worth millions in spending power someday, and you

1861
01:49:48,399 --> 01:49:49,909
might need a service like this.

1862
01:49:49,909 --> 01:49:52,589
Or at least, and all this stuff is open source.

1863
01:49:52,589 --> 01:49:53,559
You can just do it yourself.

1864
01:49:53,779 --> 01:49:54,979
Most people just never will.

1865
01:49:55,219 --> 01:49:59,309
So there's a, there's a space for a company like ours to come along

1866
01:49:59,309 --> 01:50:00,399
and say, we'll hold your hand.

1867
01:50:00,449 --> 01:50:02,009
We'll just, we'll just show you how it's done.

1868
01:50:02,339 --> 01:50:03,299
They just pass the day.

1869
01:50:04,439 --> 01:50:04,869
I love it.

1870
01:50:04,929 --> 01:50:06,399
I'm excited as can be.

1871
01:50:07,429 --> 01:50:11,249
Luke, uh, this, uh, Bitcoin advisor sounds like quite the thing, right?

1872
01:50:11,289 --> 01:50:11,999
Wink, wink.

1873
01:50:13,019 --> 01:50:13,609
Wink wink.

1874
01:50:14,039 --> 01:50:14,409
Absolutely.

1875
01:50:15,089 --> 01:50:17,749
Oh yeah, I'll see what I can do to help you guys out.

1876
01:50:17,749 --> 01:50:19,439
You guys could use some more sponsors, right?

1877
01:50:19,439 --> 01:50:19,829
Why not?

1878
01:50:19,929 --> 01:50:26,159
I, uh, uh, we, we, I think we can drop this subject for now, but, uh, we'll

1879
01:50:26,189 --> 01:50:28,119
start bringing it up again in the future.

1880
01:50:28,269 --> 01:50:30,849
Well listen, I got two more things I want to touch on because we're,

1881
01:50:31,059 --> 01:50:33,029
you know, we're getting close to the time we allotted here.

1882
01:50:33,424 --> 01:50:33,964
All good though.

1883
01:50:33,974 --> 01:50:36,094
If you don't have to go, I think we're, I think we're still good.

1884
01:50:36,404 --> 01:50:37,594
I think we're going to hit a record though.

1885
01:50:37,594 --> 01:50:40,104
This is, this is like, well, if Knut, I mean, Knut might have

1886
01:50:40,104 --> 01:50:41,204
to go pee, but that's cause he's

1887
01:50:41,244 --> 01:50:41,804
No, no, no.

1888
01:50:41,804 --> 01:50:43,334
It's a go on Jim.

1889
01:50:43,334 --> 01:50:43,764
And, uh,

1890
01:50:43,814 --> 01:50:47,254
Well, I wanted to talk to you about the seas, sailing.

1891
01:50:47,254 --> 01:50:51,034
I've had a boat most of my life, although you're going to love the fact that I sold

1892
01:50:51,064 --> 01:50:55,754
my last boat for ten thousand dollars when Bitcoin was seven, and I put it all in.

1893
01:50:56,194 --> 01:50:59,244
So, I got a lot more value now, even though I don't own the boat.

1894
01:50:59,474 --> 01:51:02,164
And I did learn that over a longer period of time, a boat is just a

1895
01:51:02,164 --> 01:51:03,334
hole in the water you keep throwing

1896
01:51:03,354 --> 01:51:05,174
You know what, you know what you did?

1897
01:51:05,524 --> 01:51:07,604
You lost your boat in a Bitcoin accident.

1898
01:51:08,554 --> 01:51:09,074
There you go!

1899
01:51:09,114 --> 01:51:09,934
I'm gonna use that one.

1900
01:51:10,154 --> 01:51:10,674
That's perfect.

1901
01:51:10,984 --> 01:51:14,674
Now, the point is, I didn't need the boat anymore, but I love boats.

1902
01:51:14,714 --> 01:51:16,194
I would be a really great first mate.

1903
01:51:16,234 --> 01:51:19,284
I'm a really good not tire I know how to navigate.

1904
01:51:19,324 --> 01:51:20,424
I know a lot of stuff.

1905
01:51:20,644 --> 01:51:22,414
You're probably at a higher level than me.

1906
01:51:22,594 --> 01:51:24,334
I, there's not a deep conversation here.

1907
01:51:24,334 --> 01:51:27,254
I just wanted to let you know that we resonate on that.

1908
01:51:27,294 --> 01:51:28,454
I, I know boating.

1909
01:51:28,454 --> 01:51:30,194
I spent a lot of years out on the water.

1910
01:51:30,544 --> 01:51:31,074
Power boating.

1911
01:51:31,144 --> 01:51:32,124
Never really sailing.

1912
01:51:32,124 --> 01:51:32,904
I've been on a few sailboats.

1913
01:51:32,904 --> 01:51:33,644
I love it.

1914
01:51:33,994 --> 01:51:37,864
I'd love to learn to sail more, but I, I know boating pretty well.

1915
01:51:37,924 --> 01:51:39,239
And I know you're a captain, aren't you?

1916
01:51:39,239 --> 01:51:40,954
Don't you have a captain's license or something?

1917
01:51:41,124 --> 01:51:45,504
I used to have a bunch of certificates, but they're all expired now since

1918
01:51:45,504 --> 01:51:48,574
quite a few years back, since I started working in the office and everything.

1919
01:51:48,574 --> 01:51:49,884
I haven't, like, renewed them.

1920
01:51:50,294 --> 01:51:55,184
So, uh, so, I don't think I'm allowed to do very much, uh, you know, at

1921
01:51:55,184 --> 01:51:57,644
least bigger boating, uh, anymore.

1922
01:51:57,684 --> 01:52:01,954
But, but, uh, sure, like, half my life was spent on the seas, and, uh, on the high

1923
01:52:01,974 --> 01:52:09,049
seas, and, uh, It, you know, I, a lot of my philosophy side is from just, you know,

1924
01:52:09,099 --> 01:52:13,249
crossing the Atlantic and being bored and having a starry sky to look up on

1925
01:52:13,249 --> 01:52:14,979
and wondering what the fuck is going on.

1926
01:52:15,389 --> 01:52:16,559
Like, yeah.

1927
01:52:16,624 --> 01:52:20,524
got a question for you regarding your authorization to be a captain.

1928
01:52:21,074 --> 01:52:21,784
I.

1929
01:52:22,609 --> 01:52:26,619
These are some of the places in life where I think it's actually reasonable

1930
01:52:27,269 --> 01:52:32,935
to meet a certain standard before you're able to put other people at

1931
01:52:32,935 --> 01:52:37,605
risk, let's say like a, like a pilot, right, flying a commercial jetliner or

1932
01:52:37,605 --> 01:52:39,265
even a private plane with a passenger.

1933
01:52:40,875 --> 01:52:45,895
I've been up in private planes and I've watched my friend and my ex neighbor go

1934
01:52:45,895 --> 01:52:50,735
through a checklist including open the window and yell out the window clear

1935
01:52:51,255 --> 01:52:52,885
in case someone was near the prop.

1936
01:52:53,355 --> 01:52:56,305
Meanwhile, there's no chance anybody was near the prop.

1937
01:52:56,335 --> 01:52:56,955
No chance.

1938
01:52:57,045 --> 01:52:58,135
I was there the whole time.

1939
01:52:58,265 --> 01:52:59,045
It was just me and him.

1940
01:52:59,215 --> 01:53:00,015
There was no one around.

1941
01:53:00,355 --> 01:53:03,885
He followed every single step because that's how you do it, to stay safe.

1942
01:53:03,935 --> 01:53:07,155
And I would suspect that as a sea captain, there's a lot of that.

1943
01:53:07,365 --> 01:53:10,745
And over a long enough period of time, you could forget certain things.

1944
01:53:10,745 --> 01:53:14,515
And so I would, is it fair to say that if you were going to go captain a

1945
01:53:14,525 --> 01:53:18,775
boat again, you might want to do some type of refresher work at some level,

1946
01:53:18,795 --> 01:53:23,605
smaller boats, some reading, some, it seems like that kind of, this is

1947
01:53:23,605 --> 01:53:24,725
where those kinds of things matter.

1948
01:53:25,430 --> 01:53:30,230
Uh, c check checklists are everywhere on, on, uh, on, uh, ships.

1949
01:53:30,350 --> 01:53:32,030
Like the, it's all about checklists.

1950
01:53:32,030 --> 01:53:35,270
And the bigger the ship, the, the, the more checklists there are, like the

1951
01:53:35,270 --> 01:53:39,760
big ferries and the big, uh, uh, cruise ships, they, they're all about checklists.

1952
01:53:40,180 --> 01:53:43,870
And I think there's a risk to having too many checklists because it's sort

1953
01:53:43,870 --> 01:53:46,120
of takes the brain outta the equation.

1954
01:53:46,470 --> 01:53:49,950
So people just follow these, uh, uh, oh, I'm supposed to do this,

1955
01:53:49,980 --> 01:53:53,640
uh, and then follow a checklist and they stop thinking at some point.

1956
01:53:54,360 --> 01:53:58,690
So, so I think that's, that's a double sided thing, having checklists.

1957
01:53:58,800 --> 01:54:03,260
Of course it's good to have some checklist to remember the most important stuff.

1958
01:54:03,720 --> 01:54:09,830
I mean, I remember, uh, forgetting to open the valve for the, the, the

1959
01:54:09,830 --> 01:54:14,590
cooling system for a, for a ferry, uh, uh, yeah, once, and that, uh, didn't

1960
01:54:14,590 --> 01:54:19,200
end up very well, uh, and the, the, the whole engine room was full of steam and

1961
01:54:19,210 --> 01:54:23,645
stuff, and I had to stop and, and Send down someone to check it out and stuff.

1962
01:54:23,895 --> 01:54:27,295
So, so, checklists can definitely be a good thing.

1963
01:54:27,705 --> 01:54:33,825
Uh, but, I think to a certain extent, like a modern, uh, ship nowadays

1964
01:54:33,855 --> 01:54:37,945
that has all these checklists and all these alarms that go off all the time.

1965
01:54:38,375 --> 01:54:41,495
And people, people on the bridge become immune to the alarms

1966
01:54:41,495 --> 01:54:42,795
because there's too many of them.

1967
01:54:43,635 --> 01:54:47,745
And they just fail all the time and they just get resetted and people

1968
01:54:47,745 --> 01:54:51,365
don't really realize when when something real bad is going on.

1969
01:54:51,395 --> 01:54:58,105
So yeah, anyway, uh, and the Swedish rules again, uh, uh, surrounding the

1970
01:54:58,375 --> 01:55:06,545
certificates for, for different tonnages of ships is, uh, It's quite tricky for

1971
01:55:06,545 --> 01:55:12,885
some, you know, Sweden wants to be best in class when it comes to professionalism,

1972
01:55:12,895 --> 01:55:19,315
which has led to the thresholds to getting your certificates being slightly

1973
01:55:19,315 --> 01:55:21,215
higher in Sweden than everywhere else.

1974
01:55:21,575 --> 01:55:25,895
It takes longer for you to become a, uh, Uh, a proper sea captain

1975
01:55:25,895 --> 01:55:30,975
than to become a, an astrophysicist or, or, uh, or, or indeed a pilot.

1976
01:55:31,305 --> 01:55:36,395
Like pilots, they, they count hours, but, uh, at sea you count months,

1977
01:55:37,235 --> 01:55:40,645
how many months you've been on a certain tonnage and where and stuff,

1978
01:55:41,502 --> 01:55:44,522
Well, I can agree with the too many checklist thing, because that's

1979
01:55:44,522 --> 01:55:48,072
kind of like the, with the police officer the other day, right?

1980
01:55:48,072 --> 01:55:49,142
There's a list, there's

1981
01:55:49,421 --> 01:55:51,781
yeah, yeah, he's not, he's not using his brain.

1982
01:55:51,791 --> 01:55:53,461
He's just following protocol.

1983
01:55:53,477 --> 01:55:54,317
and recognized.

1984
01:55:54,367 --> 01:55:54,947
Exactly.

1985
01:55:54,947 --> 01:55:56,457
He's going, no, there's a checklist.

1986
01:55:56,457 --> 01:55:57,257
I got to follow it.

1987
01:55:57,397 --> 01:56:00,837
You got to get a ticket because you went around a plastic cone in the street.

1988
01:56:01,087 --> 01:56:01,837
Nobody was hurt.

1989
01:56:01,847 --> 01:56:02,987
No damage to property.

1990
01:56:02,987 --> 01:56:04,657
Nothing happened, but there's a rule.

1991
01:56:05,236 --> 01:56:09,906
And also that pilot, the pilot opening the window and shouting out the window,

1992
01:56:10,556 --> 01:56:14,236
uh, in doing that he might be missing something else that he could have

1993
01:56:14,246 --> 01:56:16,296
thought of at that point in time.

1994
01:56:16,516 --> 01:56:17,946
Like, at that moment.

1995
01:56:18,637 --> 01:56:22,637
Well, he's going down his list so that he's focusing on that first.

1996
01:56:22,647 --> 01:56:25,737
I get what you're saying though, because maybe there was something else that could

1997
01:56:25,737 --> 01:56:29,607
have alerted him to something that's not on the list, you know, and he was focusing

1998
01:56:29,607 --> 01:56:30,897
on the list and he missed it though.

1999
01:56:31,237 --> 01:56:31,357
I

2000
01:56:31,606 --> 01:56:36,576
Or maybe, maybe in opening the window he damaged the window, or like, whatever.

2001
01:56:36,897 --> 01:56:38,757
And couldn't see it, yeah, any number of things.

2002
01:56:38,757 --> 01:56:41,447
No, it's interesting, there's a lot of, this is life, boy,

2003
01:56:41,447 --> 01:56:42,577
there's a lot of gray areas.

2004
01:56:42,587 --> 01:56:45,577
So look, we're getting close, we scheduled two hours, we're already at two hours.

2005
01:56:46,066 --> 01:56:46,726
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2006
01:56:47,117 --> 01:56:51,087
Music, dude, you know, you know I went to see Tool with Peter and, uh, Danny, right?

2007
01:56:51,117 --> 01:56:51,277
A couple

2008
01:56:51,366 --> 01:56:52,676
Oh, yeah, I saw that!

2009
01:56:52,686 --> 01:56:55,046
You went with Peter and Danny and saw two?

2010
01:56:55,326 --> 01:56:56,486
That's so awesome!

2011
01:56:57,027 --> 01:56:58,087
It was incredible.

2012
01:56:58,866 --> 01:57:03,146
We talked to Peter about this a long time, like, me and Luke should just do a show

2013
01:57:03,146 --> 01:57:05,116
with Peter talking about metal music.

2014
01:57:05,716 --> 01:57:09,796
Like, uh, if you like that idea, uh, comment below and like,

2015
01:57:09,796 --> 01:57:11,056
subscribe and brush your teeth.

2016
01:57:11,346 --> 01:57:15,786
Uh, and, uh, and click the damn bell notification button and all that stuff.

2017
01:57:16,106 --> 01:57:16,316
Uh,

2018
01:57:16,701 --> 01:57:17,841
Peter about it while you're at it.

2019
01:57:18,936 --> 01:57:19,536
exactly.

2020
01:57:19,646 --> 01:57:24,126
And, but, but, Tool, like, they've been, uh, one of my favorite bands

2021
01:57:24,126 --> 01:57:26,716
for, like, well, since the mid 90s.

2022
01:57:26,716 --> 01:57:26,736
You

2023
01:57:27,234 --> 01:57:30,494
So, you're gonna love this, because you don't, you, I don't

2024
01:57:30,494 --> 01:57:32,634
think you would know this about me, but I grew up playing drums.

2025
01:57:32,754 --> 01:57:34,714
From second grade all the way to twelfth grade.

2026
01:57:34,864 --> 01:57:37,314
I was the top drummer in the school in high school when I got

2027
01:57:37,314 --> 01:57:40,474
there, and I loved it, and I was really pretty good, I thought.

2028
01:57:40,914 --> 01:57:43,744
But I knew I wasn't gonna make a career out of it, so I let it go.

2029
01:57:43,794 --> 01:57:46,604
I wanted to be a surfer, and I just, whatever.

2030
01:57:47,084 --> 01:57:47,504
Um,

2031
01:57:47,524 --> 01:57:50,004
gonna make a career out of being a surfer instead of a

2032
01:57:50,054 --> 01:57:51,504
no, out of being a drummer.

2033
01:57:51,714 --> 01:57:54,064
No, I was never gonna make it as a surfer.

2034
01:57:54,064 --> 01:57:54,974
I was never good enough.

2035
01:57:55,174 --> 01:57:57,444
I could have made a career as a drummer, but I don't think I

2036
01:57:57,444 --> 01:57:59,614
would have been like Danny Carey.

2037
01:57:59,615 --> 01:58:00,714
I don't know.

2038
01:58:00,724 --> 01:58:01,914
Maybe I could have got there, but I don't know.

2039
01:58:02,424 --> 01:58:03,304
Point is, I loved it.

2040
01:58:03,464 --> 01:58:04,494
one's standing carry.

2041
01:58:04,934 --> 01:58:05,424
Uh, well,

2042
01:58:05,484 --> 01:58:06,134
so awesome.

2043
01:58:06,704 --> 01:58:09,454
Same, same with Neil Peart, uh, one of my favorites, right?

2044
01:58:09,454 --> 01:58:12,734
And, and Phil Collins, another guy, and Chester Thompson, that used to play side

2045
01:58:12,764 --> 01:58:15,224
by side in live Isogenesis many times.

2046
01:58:15,664 --> 01:58:19,364
Here's the thing, I didn't even know Tool existed until like a Like six months ago.

2047
01:58:20,074 --> 01:58:20,794
Oh, really?

2048
01:58:20,844 --> 01:58:24,214
that goes, yeah, well, I've never been a heavy metal fan.

2049
01:58:24,264 --> 01:58:27,454
I like reggae music, one of the simplest styles of music that

2050
01:58:27,464 --> 01:58:28,634
you could play on the drums.

2051
01:58:28,714 --> 01:58:28,844
It's

2052
01:58:28,884 --> 01:58:29,214
Oh my

2053
01:58:29,324 --> 01:58:33,704
not hard, but I also grew up playing every style of drumming that was

2054
01:58:33,724 --> 01:58:35,994
out there because I had a drum teacher that forced me to learn

2055
01:58:36,004 --> 01:58:38,674
jazz and rumba and whatever it was.

2056
01:58:38,944 --> 01:58:41,444
And I had an appreciation for different styles of music.

2057
01:58:41,494 --> 01:58:47,424
And to me, Hard music was the epitome of a good musician that could play

2058
01:58:47,424 --> 01:58:51,924
something really hard and do it well, so really complicated music was

2059
01:58:51,964 --> 01:58:56,074
interesting to me, so I loved rock and roll growing up and some of the stuff

2060
01:58:56,074 --> 01:59:01,184
that was produced by bands like Yes or Jethro Tull, crazy, really long, you

2061
01:59:01,184 --> 01:59:05,114
know, songs way beyond the three and a half minute radio time, you know, so I

2062
01:59:05,114 --> 01:59:09,524
loved that stuff, and when Standard rock and roll songs are, eh, this is great,

2063
01:59:09,694 --> 01:59:10,704
you know, but I could do without it.

2064
01:59:10,964 --> 01:59:14,054
I gravitated towards new wave music a little in the 80s.

2065
01:59:14,334 --> 01:59:18,204
I found reggae in 1979 and I was hooked forever.

2066
01:59:18,274 --> 01:59:21,124
It's still my favorite form of music, as simple as it is.

2067
01:59:21,544 --> 01:59:22,964
But I love complicated stuff.

2068
01:59:22,994 --> 01:59:24,384
When I found Rush, I was blown away.

2069
01:59:25,754 --> 01:59:29,744
My friend TC, he goes by TC on, on, uh, on Twitter, he, he has a

2070
01:59:29,824 --> 01:59:33,484
time chain calendar thing, which is really awesome, timechaincalendar.

2071
01:59:33,484 --> 01:59:36,644
com, right, so he and I are good friends, we've met many times, he's

2072
01:59:36,644 --> 01:59:40,714
telling me I gotta, I gotta go listen to over, over, over, so I start doing

2073
01:59:40,714 --> 01:59:43,844
it, little by little, on the internet, watching videos and stuff, and I'm

2074
01:59:43,844 --> 01:59:46,084
recognizing how complicated the music is.

2075
01:59:46,614 --> 01:59:51,064
So, I see a tweet from Peter McCormack, he's gonna be at Pubkey in New York City,

2076
01:59:51,364 --> 01:59:57,224
two days from whenever, and I had, just randomly a month earlier, a curious,

2077
01:59:57,254 --> 02:00:00,744
I wonder if Tool is playing anywhere around, you know, like I could go see them

2078
02:00:00,744 --> 02:00:02,294
one day, cause I started to get hooked.

2079
02:00:02,654 --> 02:00:04,894
I started to watch, I started to pay attention, I thought,

2080
02:00:05,184 --> 02:00:06,164
these guys are really good.

2081
02:00:06,614 --> 02:00:10,574
The loudness of the music was never my thing, and it's heavy metal, so it's loud.

2082
02:00:10,949 --> 02:00:14,189
But I was just, I was so impressed beyond the noise of

2083
02:00:14,229 --> 02:00:17,489
the music at their musicianship that I started to get into it.

2084
02:00:17,799 --> 02:00:19,829
So I, I knew they were playing in New York.

2085
02:00:19,829 --> 02:00:21,169
I was like, when are they playing in New York?

2086
02:00:21,169 --> 02:00:22,229
I saw it on their tour thing.

2087
02:00:22,639 --> 02:00:26,189
Literally two days later, they're going to be in at Pubkey and they're playing at

2088
02:00:26,229 --> 02:00:27,879
Madison Square Garden two nights in a row.

2089
02:00:28,499 --> 02:00:32,219
I, I, I text DM Peter, I go, Are you at 2FIN?

2090
02:00:32,219 --> 02:00:33,539
He goes, Hello?

2091
02:00:34,019 --> 02:00:34,039
Of

2092
02:00:34,394 --> 02:00:34,894
Yeah, yeah,

2093
02:00:35,349 --> 02:00:37,969
I go, Did you know they were playing in New York City?

2094
02:00:38,009 --> 02:00:41,739
I message where I got, and he goes, Holy fucking fuck, are you kidding me?

2095
02:00:41,879 --> 02:00:43,119
That's his message back to me.

2096
02:00:43,479 --> 02:00:44,789
I go, Dude, you wanna go?

2097
02:00:45,169 --> 02:00:47,439
So I got us three tickets, me, him, and Danny.

2098
02:00:47,449 --> 02:00:49,789
We were 12th row on the floor, dead center.

2099
02:00:50,419 --> 02:00:52,039
I couldn't believe they were even available.

2100
02:00:52,219 --> 02:00:55,709
I paid a good amount of money for them, but it was so worth it.

2101
02:00:55,899 --> 02:00:58,149
One of the best concerts I've ever seen.

2102
02:00:58,389 --> 02:00:59,889
The visuals were incredible.

2103
02:01:00,099 --> 02:01:04,109
What I think is amazing, I watched some documentaries, right?

2104
02:01:04,159 --> 02:01:07,669
I learned about this band, where they came from, how they grew into who they are.

2105
02:01:07,899 --> 02:01:10,649
The fact that they took like 13 years off between two of their records,

2106
02:01:10,934 --> 02:01:12,424
Yeah, low time preference, man.

2107
02:01:12,434 --> 02:01:13,324
They're a low time

2108
02:01:13,694 --> 02:01:14,714
It's incredible!

2109
02:01:15,134 --> 02:01:17,914
And I'm listening to Maynard, the singer, tell me about how

2110
02:01:17,914 --> 02:01:19,334
the musicians make the music.

2111
02:01:19,584 --> 02:01:21,984
And they give it to him and he figures out what it means, and he

2112
02:01:21,984 --> 02:01:23,804
writes lyrics around their music.

2113
02:01:24,054 --> 02:01:26,734
They don't know what the song is going to be about, the musicians.

2114
02:01:27,004 --> 02:01:28,444
They don't know what the lyrics are going to be.

2115
02:01:28,604 --> 02:01:30,604
Nobody does until Maynard figures it out.

2116
02:01:30,984 --> 02:01:35,704
And they come together and they play this insane, crazy, off tempo stuff that

2117
02:01:35,724 --> 02:01:42,189
is Mind boggling to keep track of, and Maynard, he times his lyrics around this

2118
02:01:42,239 --> 02:01:44,539
crazy music that these guys put together.

2119
02:01:45,279 --> 02:01:47,059
It's just one of a kind stuff.

2120
02:01:47,199 --> 02:01:48,689
It really blows my mind.

2121
02:01:48,689 --> 02:01:49,519
I knew you were into this.

2122
02:01:49,789 --> 02:01:53,699
I just wanted to say that to you, to say you and I are on the same

2123
02:01:53,699 --> 02:01:54,949
page with this stuff, brother.

2124
02:01:55,169 --> 02:01:56,564
This is such cool shit.

2125
02:01:56,564 --> 02:02:01,619
When I saw you doing Satoshi Rakamoto, like Off the cuff, you guys are all

2126
02:02:01,619 --> 02:02:06,609
playing songs you know from your life, like typical, you know, 12 bar

2127
02:02:06,609 --> 02:02:10,469
blues, or whatever it might be, that everybody is accomplished enough.

2128
02:02:10,699 --> 02:02:13,819
Doug Scribner up there on keyboards, Sophie singing,

2129
02:02:14,059 --> 02:02:16,199
uh, Muz's wife, Anna, singing.

2130
02:02:16,229 --> 02:02:19,269
These are, these are people that got good, they got skills, but

2131
02:02:19,269 --> 02:02:20,549
you guys never played together!

2132
02:02:20,709 --> 02:02:22,229
And you're just like, ah, let's wing it, you know?

2133
02:02:22,229 --> 02:02:27,439
I know you guys did this in in, uh, in Baja with Giacomo and Nir and

2134
02:02:27,594 --> 02:02:28,134
That's where it

2135
02:02:28,219 --> 02:02:31,129
years back when Jimmy was there, yeah, and I'm just going this, I

2136
02:02:31,249 --> 02:02:33,149
love this about music and musicians.

2137
02:02:33,549 --> 02:02:38,169
Music has a certain perfection to it, you know, a C is a C, it has to vibrate

2138
02:02:38,169 --> 02:02:41,579
at the right, you know, frequency, otherwise it's not a C note anymore.

2139
02:02:41,734 --> 02:02:46,534
Rock, Rockomodo, Rockom, yeah, Rockomodo is hardly about perfection, though.

2140
02:02:46,535 --> 02:02:50,004
Yeah,

2141
02:02:50,079 --> 02:02:53,669
all understand the principles of music, the perfection that is music.

2142
02:02:53,924 --> 02:02:56,024
The combination of notes that make a chord.

2143
02:02:56,054 --> 02:02:57,064
All these things are known.

2144
02:02:57,074 --> 02:02:59,774
They're, they're, they're already recognized within the industry.

2145
02:02:59,774 --> 02:03:03,504
They're recognized within how music is, is, uh, pleasing to us.

2146
02:03:03,744 --> 02:03:07,564
Like dissonant music is not very pleasing to many people, but harmonic

2147
02:03:07,614 --> 02:03:09,054
music is to almost everybody.

2148
02:03:09,274 --> 02:03:13,574
There's a certain resonance that our brains are, are, are tuned

2149
02:03:13,744 --> 02:03:16,044
into to be more pleasant than not.

2150
02:03:16,304 --> 02:03:17,684
And there's just like a bell curve.

2151
02:03:17,724 --> 02:03:21,924
There's both ends where people love it as, as dissonant as it might be.

2152
02:03:22,254 --> 02:03:25,644
But, um, I just knew that music's a big part of your life.

2153
02:03:25,684 --> 02:03:29,184
It's always been a big part of mine, even though I don't play an instrument anymore.

2154
02:03:29,494 --> 02:03:32,834
And I just wanted to connect on this while we had this opportunity to talk, because

2155
02:03:32,834 --> 02:03:34,164
I would love to go to a show together.

2156
02:03:34,494 --> 02:03:35,544
Dude, if we're ever in the same

2157
02:03:35,584 --> 02:03:39,034
yeah, yeah, yeah, we should We should jam, man.

2158
02:03:39,284 --> 02:03:39,584
If you

2159
02:03:39,754 --> 02:03:42,884
Well, I, my drumming skills are, are in the garbage.

2160
02:03:42,884 --> 02:03:44,744
I could probably improve

2161
02:03:44,794 --> 02:03:46,054
Nah, you'll figure it out.

2162
02:03:46,134 --> 02:03:48,844
but I would, I could, I could bang a bongo drum all day and

2163
02:03:48,844 --> 02:03:49,954
keep a beat with that, you know?

2164
02:03:49,964 --> 02:03:51,234
So I could jump up there.

2165
02:03:51,424 --> 02:03:53,484
Next time we're doing Sadoshi Rakamoto and there's

2166
02:03:53,584 --> 02:03:54,354
Yeah, yeah.

2167
02:03:54,404 --> 02:03:56,464
Percussion instrument available, I'll jump on it.

2168
02:03:56,752 --> 02:03:57,902
Looking forward to it.

2169
02:03:57,912 --> 02:04:00,472
Like, uh, the, the, the things that, yeah.

2170
02:04:00,642 --> 02:04:03,152
Here are the things that come to mind when you talk about this.

2171
02:04:03,362 --> 02:04:04,602
First of all, I love Tool.

2172
02:04:04,742 --> 02:04:08,392
Uh, I've loved them since, uh, the, uh, Anima album.

2173
02:04:08,602 --> 02:04:10,932
And then I discovered the first album after that.

2174
02:04:11,225 --> 02:04:15,465
I, I remember vividly when the, the From the Lateralus album, the

2175
02:04:15,465 --> 02:04:17,535
Parabola Parabola video came out.

2176
02:04:17,585 --> 02:04:20,795
I was totally blown away by that, it was like nothing else.

2177
02:04:21,440 --> 02:04:27,630
And, uh, I love another band, um, that is sort of in the same ballpark called

2178
02:04:27,640 --> 02:04:29,630
Meshuggah, if you've ever heard of them.

2179
02:04:29,890 --> 02:04:35,090
They're even, even more, even more complex and harder, uh, much harder,

2180
02:04:35,120 --> 02:04:39,100
like, you have, it takes a while to get used to the voice because it's very

2181
02:04:39,100 --> 02:04:44,070
metal, uh, but I've been following them since the 90s, like, uh, and they're

2182
02:04:44,390 --> 02:04:48,960
equally as, you know, Mind blown type of, like, these people aren't

2183
02:04:48,960 --> 02:04:53,410
even human type of musicians because they're, they're like on a different

2184
02:04:53,410 --> 02:04:55,350
level, completely different level.

2185
02:04:55,680 --> 02:04:56,580
Absolutely love that.

2186
02:04:56,600 --> 02:05:01,330
And also, me and Luke went and saw Pantera after, after BTC Prague.

2187
02:05:01,845 --> 02:05:04,785
Yeah, so we stayed in Prague for two more days and went to the Pantera

2188
02:05:04,785 --> 02:05:06,405
concert, it was absolutely awesome.

2189
02:05:06,845 --> 02:05:07,355
So yeah,

2190
02:05:07,585 --> 02:05:07,885
yeah.

2191
02:05:08,225 --> 02:05:08,505
That's

2192
02:05:08,655 --> 02:05:12,735
yeah, and, and the Rock A Moto things, we have some, we have some ideas, so,

2193
02:05:12,765 --> 02:05:17,985
of, uh, stuff to do, and, and, and, you know, Yeah, we, we, we, we're, we're in

2194
02:05:17,985 --> 02:05:20,435
the, we're in a sort of band together.

2195
02:05:20,990 --> 02:05:24,390
With some other guys, yeah,

2196
02:05:24,595 --> 02:05:26,595
uh, the impromptu nature of it all.

2197
02:05:26,595 --> 02:05:30,875
Like, a good musician can, can jump in like that because they know

2198
02:05:30,875 --> 02:05:33,525
their instrument and they can find the flow of a song even if they

2199
02:05:33,595 --> 02:05:34,895
haven't really heard it, you know.

2200
02:05:34,895 --> 02:05:36,905
It's just something about that that I love.

2201
02:05:37,445 --> 02:05:40,325
And I just love you guys just come together and make it work and, you know.

2202
02:05:40,670 --> 02:05:43,720
The crowd gets into it, it's a bar full of bitcorners for a couple

2203
02:05:43,720 --> 02:05:46,720
hours watching bitcorners on stage, it's, it's just so cool.

2204
02:05:46,870 --> 02:05:47,670
It's just so cool.

2205
02:05:47,670 --> 02:05:48,040
Oh,

2206
02:05:50,430 --> 02:05:58,430
did this thing in Prague with Samson and Mark from the Princess Hotel in

2207
02:05:58,600 --> 02:06:04,910
Stuttgart, outside Stuttgart, called Nevermind, and now Luke is now the bass

2208
02:06:04,910 --> 02:06:09,610
player for that, by the way, we made that happen, so we're planning on uh,

2209
02:06:10,265 --> 02:06:15,605
Doing something with that, recording, or, or, uh, playing live Nirvana covers.

2210
02:06:16,065 --> 02:06:21,315
We'll see what happens, that's, uh, so yeah, yeah, and I, I'd love to do

2211
02:06:21,315 --> 02:06:26,045
other music projects, and I have a, a whole bunch of, of songs that need to

2212
02:06:26,045 --> 02:06:31,425
be recorded, and just, just waiting to, to get them, get into a proper,

2213
02:06:31,700 --> 02:06:34,460
oh, I have a message from Peter Dunworth.

2214
02:06:34,460 --> 02:06:36,080
I was supposed to DM you ahead of time.

2215
02:06:36,080 --> 02:06:40,140
You were supposed to bring your guitar and sing your Fuck You Bitcoin song.

2216
02:06:40,490 --> 02:06:40,630
And,

2217
02:06:40,815 --> 02:06:41,985
No Fuck Your Money song, yeah,

2218
02:06:42,200 --> 02:06:43,360
Fuck You Money song, sorry.

2219
02:06:43,750 --> 02:06:46,750
Yeah, Peter was hoping you would do that for us and I forgot.

2220
02:06:46,980 --> 02:06:48,180
Just, just hit me now.

2221
02:06:48,583 --> 02:06:49,363
Come to where?

2222
02:06:50,323 --> 02:06:53,483
No, here, he wanted you to do it today, uh, you

2223
02:06:53,733 --> 02:06:58,353
On the show, I haven't got a guitar here, like, I haven't got a guitar

2224
02:06:58,353 --> 02:07:02,073
here, so, so sorry about that, we're just about to move into a new house,

2225
02:07:02,083 --> 02:07:05,893
so we're staying in a small apartment meanwhile, so, so, uh, so I haven't got

2226
02:07:05,893 --> 02:07:07,193
the guitars here, they're in the house

2227
02:07:07,543 --> 02:07:08,033
No problem.

2228
02:07:08,053 --> 02:07:08,633
It's my fault.

2229
02:07:08,893 --> 02:07:11,113
how small this apartment that he's staying in is,

2230
02:07:11,693 --> 02:07:12,953
uh, I can imagine.

2231
02:07:12,953 --> 02:07:16,113
I've lived in some small places myself, I can relate.

2232
02:07:16,153 --> 02:07:18,913
Um, no, I was supposed to send you a message before this so

2233
02:07:18,913 --> 02:07:21,173
you could bring your guitar and be ready and I totally forgot.

2234
02:07:21,343 --> 02:07:21,643
Oh well.

2235
02:07:22,333 --> 02:07:23,103
At least I said it.

2236
02:07:23,423 --> 02:07:25,603
He'll watch the recording, he'll know at least I said it.

2237
02:07:26,213 --> 02:07:29,783
We'll make that happen somehow, and we need to, I need to record that and a

2238
02:07:29,783 --> 02:07:34,003
bunch of other songs more properly, and make proper videos for it, have Luke

2239
02:07:34,043 --> 02:07:37,203
produce them or something, uh, so yeah.

2240
02:07:37,833 --> 02:07:38,953
But, but I think

2241
02:07:39,393 --> 02:07:42,323
You know, let me, let me just get in with one, one thing, since we're already

2242
02:07:42,323 --> 02:07:46,153
way over time, and, uh, this is, this is absolutely unrelated to anything,

2243
02:07:46,153 --> 02:07:49,513
and it ends up completely obscure, but, you know, you, you mentioned reggae

2244
02:07:49,513 --> 02:07:53,433
music, the funny thing is, like, I, I, I appreciate some of the original reggae

2245
02:07:53,443 --> 02:07:56,933
music, definitely Bob Marley and all that, but, the, the funny thing is, so

2246
02:07:56,933 --> 02:07:59,603
I'm a, I'm a metalhead, I'm a metalhead, I'm a metalhead, through and through.

2247
02:07:59,773 --> 02:08:02,073
And I basically moved to Finland because of it.

2248
02:08:02,083 --> 02:08:03,473
That's only half a joke.

2249
02:08:04,023 --> 02:08:07,103
But it's yeah, it's kind of not a joke.

2250
02:08:08,593 --> 02:08:13,213
But the funny thing is, is that Finnish reggae music is some of the some of

2251
02:08:13,213 --> 02:08:17,803
the most hilarious and legitimately good music that I listen to now.

2252
02:08:17,803 --> 02:08:22,888
It's, it's Finnish guys, white Finnish guys, uh, singing reggae music in Finnish.

2253
02:08:23,108 --> 02:08:27,438
And so it, it really shouldn't work, but it, it absolutely does.

2254
02:08:28,223 --> 02:08:28,713
That's cool.

2255
02:08:29,178 --> 02:08:30,958
Is there Jamaican Viking metal?

2256
02:08:33,048 --> 02:08:35,248
would actually imagine there's Jamaican folk metal,

2257
02:08:35,608 --> 02:08:36,018
Yeah, yeah,

2258
02:08:36,128 --> 02:08:37,108
I would have to look that up.

2259
02:08:37,108 --> 02:08:40,298
That, yeah, that would be, that would be interesting, but I mean, Hey, yeah, yeah.

2260
02:08:40,298 --> 02:08:40,768
Why not?

2261
02:08:40,778 --> 02:08:41,218
Why not?

2262
02:08:41,568 --> 02:08:42,758
But the fun, the funny thing is.

2263
02:08:43,453 --> 02:08:46,523
This is the, the, the thing to make it just even more obscure.

2264
02:08:46,533 --> 02:08:50,803
My favorite Finnish reggae band is from Sweden, not from Finland.

2265
02:08:51,153 --> 02:08:54,313
They're from, yeah, they're the part, from the part of Sweden that's right next

2266
02:08:54,313 --> 02:08:57,833
to the border in Finland, and they, they speak a dialect of Finnish, which is,

2267
02:08:57,943 --> 02:09:01,353
it's, it's, Normal Finnish, they just, they sound like they're from up north.

2268
02:09:01,783 --> 02:09:04,703
Um, but because they live in Sweden, they call it a different

2269
02:09:04,703 --> 02:09:06,663
language and all that, but, but.

2270
02:09:06,663 --> 02:09:11,063
So they just sing in Finnish, basically, but they're from Sweden, but their

2271
02:09:11,063 --> 02:09:15,948
entire audience is Finnish and it's just really good stuff and I don't know.

2272
02:09:16,588 --> 02:09:19,638
It's reggae, and you know, the funny thing is it connects people from all over the

2273
02:09:19,638 --> 02:09:24,038
world and you can get reggae music from all different cultures and I don't know,

2274
02:09:24,418 --> 02:09:28,118
I'm slightly surprised there isn't more kind of cultural appropriation this and

2275
02:09:28,118 --> 02:09:31,068
that about it, but I don't know, I guess the Jamaicans don't mind that some Finnish

2276
02:09:31,068 --> 02:09:33,818
people are singing Finnish music in reggae

2277
02:09:33,918 --> 02:09:35,228
Do you think they're aware?

2278
02:09:35,828 --> 02:09:37,628
I would be really surprised if they're aware,

2279
02:09:37,803 --> 02:09:39,633
Yeah, I, I, I never heard of it.

2280
02:09:39,663 --> 02:09:40,393
Send me something.

2281
02:09:40,673 --> 02:09:42,703
Yeah, uh, Knut, do you know 311?

2282
02:09:43,773 --> 02:09:44,633
The band 311?

2283
02:09:44,978 --> 02:09:49,608
Yeah, I recognize the name, I can't remember a song on top of my head,

2284
02:09:49,833 --> 02:09:52,513
you've definitely heard some of their music on the radio, but they're a

2285
02:09:52,513 --> 02:09:57,573
combination of heavy metal, some hip hop in there, some straight up

2286
02:09:57,573 --> 02:10:00,923
rock and roll, but a lot of reggae beats mixed in with their songs.

2287
02:10:00,923 --> 02:10:04,453
So they'll go from reggae to hard rock to heavy metal in the same song.

2288
02:10:05,003 --> 02:10:08,403
They've written thousands of songs over, over 30 years.

2289
02:10:08,523 --> 02:10:11,943
They're one of my favorite bands because it's a mix of all these

2290
02:10:11,943 --> 02:10:13,453
different fields in their concerts.

2291
02:10:13,843 --> 02:10:17,723
Same band since they were kids, so this is one of these long time bands.

2292
02:10:17,973 --> 02:10:21,373
It's just a great, I think you would enjoy a good amount of their music.

2293
02:10:21,593 --> 02:10:25,363
Um, you know, maybe not every song, but they got a huge library.

2294
02:10:25,603 --> 02:10:28,603
And I, I, I try to always see them when they come around my area.

2295
02:10:29,553 --> 02:10:31,403
10, 15 times over the last 30 years.

2296
02:10:31,413 --> 02:10:34,143
So I know they're a really good band, but they got that reggae

2297
02:10:34,173 --> 02:10:35,723
feel, which appeals to me a lot.

2298
02:10:35,973 --> 02:10:38,253
And I love rock and roll, you know, that's what I grew up on.

2299
02:10:38,253 --> 02:10:42,043
So, you know, I'm not an entire metalhead like you Luke, but I'm

2300
02:10:42,073 --> 02:10:43,803
okay with lots of metal music.

2301
02:10:43,803 --> 02:10:45,933
I've gotten used to the loudness of it all.

2302
02:10:46,123 --> 02:10:50,913
I find the appreciation in either the message in the song or the musicianship.

2303
02:10:51,213 --> 02:10:54,483
And I, you know, the loudness of the music, I'm able to sort of, you

2304
02:10:54,483 --> 02:10:56,133
know, not worry about that as much.

2305
02:10:56,403 --> 02:10:57,643
There's tons of heavy metal music.

2306
02:10:57,643 --> 02:10:58,803
I can't stand.

2307
02:11:00,048 --> 02:11:03,888
I've much more warmed up to it over the years than I used to be many years ago.

2308
02:11:03,948 --> 02:11:05,138
You know what it is?

2309
02:11:05,398 --> 02:11:06,548
Sincerity, right?

2310
02:11:07,138 --> 02:11:12,718
Any music that is sincere is usually the stuff you like.

2311
02:11:12,728 --> 02:11:16,228
At least that's true for me, I don't know I hate plastic

2312
02:11:16,228 --> 02:11:17,708
music and I love real music.

2313
02:11:18,288 --> 02:11:22,658
And it doesn't matter what genre it is as long as it's Got a heart and a

2314
02:11:22,658 --> 02:11:26,328
soul, and it's real, and it's coming from somewhere, and you can tell, you

2315
02:11:26,328 --> 02:11:30,588
can tell that the artist is, is doing it out of, uh, a passionate reason,

2316
02:11:30,608 --> 02:11:32,708
like, then, then, then I like it.

2317
02:11:33,218 --> 02:11:34,718
, this has been a fucking blast.

2318
02:11:34,768 --> 02:11:36,558
I knew I would enjoy talking to you guys.

2319
02:11:36,818 --> 02:11:39,448
Although Luke didn't say much, but I appreciate you being here and

2320
02:11:39,448 --> 02:11:43,103
running the show and all that, but You guys are, you guys are fantastic.

2321
02:11:43,103 --> 02:11:47,393
I swear, literally, one of my favorite podcasts, because you just have

2322
02:11:47,393 --> 02:11:51,033
this happy attitude, I don't know, it doesn't feel like you're, it's

2323
02:11:51,033 --> 02:11:53,913
controversial, I don't know, there's something about the way you guys have

2324
02:11:54,053 --> 02:11:55,303
done this, I just really love it.

2325
02:11:55,943 --> 02:11:57,553
The guests have been fantastic, so,

2326
02:11:57,563 --> 02:11:59,563
We're not controversial at all.

2327
02:11:59,713 --> 02:12:01,143
I mean, fuck the government.

2328
02:12:02,113 --> 02:12:02,813
Sincerely.

2329
02:12:03,233 --> 02:12:05,813
And, uh, and right back at

2330
02:12:05,963 --> 02:12:06,503
with me!

2331
02:12:08,623 --> 02:12:13,373
back at you, Jim, we've absolutely, both absolutely loved this conversation, uh,

2332
02:12:13,403 --> 02:12:17,673
and, uh, yeah, so the last part is where can people find you on the internet,

2333
02:12:18,133 --> 02:12:22,183
Uh uh, no, no, no, you forgot, there's one more last question, who's got it for me?

2334
02:12:22,913 --> 02:12:23,073
uh,

2335
02:12:23,178 --> 02:12:24,888
How am I expanding my Freedom

2336
02:12:25,173 --> 02:12:28,063
Yeah, how, how, how are you expanding your Freedom Footprint?

2337
02:12:28,388 --> 02:12:31,188
I am investing in Rancho San Satoshi in Baja.

2338
02:12:31,228 --> 02:12:32,298
I've been there twice.

2339
02:12:32,933 --> 02:12:35,303
Um, I've already made some commitments with Jimmy.

2340
02:12:35,343 --> 02:12:37,613
I am liquidating my life in New York.

2341
02:12:37,613 --> 02:12:39,223
I cannot wait to get out of here.

2342
02:12:39,633 --> 02:12:45,073
I plan to retire, sell my business, and I want to be a lot freer, so I'm

2343
02:12:45,073 --> 02:12:48,033
going to move to a jurisdiction that I believe I will be a lot freer.

2344
02:12:48,393 --> 02:12:51,763
Uh, and basically just please leave me alone, and I'll leave

2345
02:12:51,763 --> 02:12:53,243
you alone, and we'll all be happy.

2346
02:12:53,243 --> 02:12:56,123
I just want to go surfing, eat some good steaks.

2347
02:12:57,133 --> 02:13:00,893
Uh, you know, um, reason with my friends, right?

2348
02:13:00,963 --> 02:13:04,323
Uh, enjoy their company, travel the world to see beautiful places

2349
02:13:04,323 --> 02:13:05,573
if the world will let me in.

2350
02:13:06,033 --> 02:13:07,073
Uh, and that's about it.

2351
02:13:07,073 --> 02:13:09,253
But I, I, uh, you know, I advocate for freedom.

2352
02:13:09,553 --> 02:13:10,883
I advocate for less government.

2353
02:13:10,933 --> 02:13:12,123
Every day I get a chance.

2354
02:13:12,423 --> 02:13:16,533
And I am turning my life around to go and live it as best as I possibly can.

2355
02:13:16,883 --> 02:13:19,923
I do not want to be beholden to supply chains that could

2356
02:13:19,923 --> 02:13:21,143
break and cause me to starve.

2357
02:13:21,728 --> 02:13:24,578
So I want a roof over my head, I want my own energy, I want my own

2358
02:13:24,608 --> 02:13:26,418
food sources, my own water sources.

2359
02:13:26,738 --> 02:13:30,908
And Rancho San Satoshi can provide that to me and lots of other people.

2360
02:13:31,178 --> 02:13:33,648
We have a vision to build it out, I know you know about it,

2361
02:13:33,698 --> 02:13:35,458
and that's my main focus on,

2362
02:13:36,053 --> 02:13:40,003
Jimmy is awesome, and the project itself is awesome, like, I love it.

2363
02:13:40,968 --> 02:13:42,018
that's, that's my plan.

2364
02:13:42,428 --> 02:13:46,478
And as far as finding me, uh, I'm pretty toxic on Twitter,

2365
02:13:46,578 --> 02:13:47,598
that's really the only place.

2366
02:13:47,598 --> 02:13:50,758
Although you can, you can get to me, uh, thebitcoinadvisor slash

2367
02:13:50,768 --> 02:13:55,108
surferjim, or you can email me, surferjim at thebitcoinadvisor dot com.

2368
02:13:55,473 --> 02:13:58,983
Be happy to talk to you about what we do or Bitcoin in general, but uh, you

2369
02:13:58,983 --> 02:14:05,313
can find me at SurferJimW on Twitter, um, and uh, yeah, that's about it.

2370
02:14:05,313 --> 02:14:07,463
I'm a toxic Bitcoin maximalist.

2371
02:14:07,463 --> 02:14:12,003
I wanted Bitcoin to Succeed, I want everybody to own some Bitcoin,

2372
02:14:12,003 --> 02:14:15,233
I want governments to go away, I want tyranny to go away, I want Dr.

2373
02:14:15,383 --> 02:14:19,693
Fauci to go away, Bill Gates to go away, these people are evil poison on

2374
02:14:19,708 --> 02:14:21,018
What about Justin Bieber?

2375
02:14:21,358 --> 02:14:22,598
Justin Bieber, can he stay?

2376
02:14:22,683 --> 02:14:24,263
don't mind, he's fine, he doesn't hurt

2377
02:14:24,428 --> 02:14:24,738
Okay.

2378
02:14:25,183 --> 02:14:28,243
I don't, I don't align with the guy, but at least he doesn't seem

2379
02:14:28,253 --> 02:14:30,193
to be trying to Destroy my life.

2380
02:14:30,268 --> 02:14:35,408
Yeah, yeah, I've, um, I've become more, uh, you know, um, uh, soft

2381
02:14:35,408 --> 02:14:36,998
on, on Justin Bieber over the years.

2382
02:14:37,048 --> 02:14:37,258
Yeah.

2383
02:14:39,143 --> 02:14:39,583
Awesome.

2384
02:14:39,763 --> 02:14:40,143
Well,

2385
02:14:40,388 --> 02:14:43,298
Anyway, thanks so much for, for taking the time, Jim.

2386
02:14:43,308 --> 02:14:44,358
We've enjoyed

2387
02:14:44,463 --> 02:14:45,303
letting me come.

2388
02:14:45,833 --> 02:14:49,873
I couldn't wait to talk to you guys, like, all week long since we've been together.

2389
02:14:49,943 --> 02:14:51,243
Man, I can't wait till Tuesday.

2390
02:14:51,713 --> 02:14:52,773
This has been fantastic.

2391
02:14:52,903 --> 02:14:55,723
This is exactly what I wanted for this day and this conversation.

2392
02:14:55,973 --> 02:14:59,503
Just explore randomly where our, where our crazy minds are going to take us.

2393
02:14:59,713 --> 02:15:04,123
I knew we had a whole bunch of stuff we aligned on, I just wanted to I just

2394
02:15:04,123 --> 02:15:08,383
wanted to get your feedback on some of my perceptions because one of the

2395
02:15:08,383 --> 02:15:12,763
things we do in this world is we wanna verify it Is what we're seeing real?

2396
02:15:12,768 --> 02:15:14,293
Does anybody else resonate with this?

2397
02:15:14,503 --> 02:15:16,393
Am I the only crazy one in the room?

2398
02:15:16,753 --> 02:15:20,783
And I figure even if it's just me and you two, I feel a lot better that I'm

2399
02:15:20,783 --> 02:15:22,073
not the only crazy one in the room.

2400
02:15:22,073 --> 02:15:22,133
I

2401
02:15:22,268 --> 02:15:25,858
I the only one seeing this big elephant here, right here in this room?

2402
02:15:25,908 --> 02:15:26,178
Right?

2403
02:15:26,238 --> 02:15:26,578
Yeah.

2404
02:15:26,583 --> 02:15:27,463
Exactly, yeah.

2405
02:15:27,683 --> 02:15:31,033
And I just, I had a feeling that I would feel good about this, and that

2406
02:15:31,063 --> 02:15:32,513
you and I would have this alignment.

2407
02:15:33,113 --> 02:15:36,043
Watching Luke, after all the episodes I've watched, I had a feeling we'd

2408
02:15:36,043 --> 02:15:39,213
all be on the same page on most, if not everything we've discussed.

2409
02:15:39,213 --> 02:15:40,393
And I just couldn't wait to do it.

2410
02:15:40,603 --> 02:15:41,793
It didn't even need to be recorded.

2411
02:15:41,813 --> 02:15:44,663
I would have enjoyed this, just having this conversation, just the three of us.

2412
02:15:45,013 --> 02:15:46,723
Now the rest of the world gets to listen to it.

2413
02:15:46,943 --> 02:15:49,213
Maybe, hopefully, they take something away from it.

2414
02:15:49,263 --> 02:15:52,113
That's part of the reason, on public, why I say things.

2415
02:15:52,413 --> 02:15:56,073
Because If it touches just one person and improves their life, then it was worth it.

2416
02:15:56,443 --> 02:15:59,293
And so, hopefully we touch a lot of people by doing what we do.

2417
02:15:59,513 --> 02:16:04,103
I know you guys have already touched my life in multiple ways by all the

2418
02:16:04,103 --> 02:16:05,293
podcasts I've always listened to.

2419
02:16:05,293 --> 02:16:08,943
Now that I'm on it, hopefully my contribution enhances that

2420
02:16:08,953 --> 02:16:10,473
and we make a better world.

2421
02:16:10,523 --> 02:16:11,993
Like that, like, I'm a good guy.

2422
02:16:12,003 --> 02:16:13,053
I want peace and happiness.

2423
02:16:13,093 --> 02:16:14,223
I don't want to hurt anybody.

2424
02:16:14,403 --> 02:16:16,883
I want a better world for everybody, even if I don't get to

2425
02:16:16,883 --> 02:16:18,083
see them have their better world.

2426
02:16:18,263 --> 02:16:19,823
If they're having one, good for them.

2427
02:16:20,123 --> 02:16:21,733
Let's make this world a better place.

2428
02:16:22,078 --> 02:16:23,188
That's what I'm down for.

2429
02:16:23,733 --> 02:16:25,763
Yeah, we love touching people's lives.

2430
02:16:25,763 --> 02:16:30,243
I mean, we try to refrain from touching people's wives, but otherwise we're on

2431
02:16:30,243 --> 02:16:32,623
the same page, like, page 21, that is.

2432
02:16:32,993 --> 02:16:33,393
So,

2433
02:16:33,528 --> 02:16:34,008
perfect.

2434
02:16:34,563 --> 02:16:36,823
thanks very much, Jim.

2435
02:16:38,133 --> 02:16:40,033
Can't wait to see you in real life next time.

2436
02:16:40,353 --> 02:16:42,243
Or come back to the show.

2437
02:16:43,398 --> 02:16:44,188
Anytime, guys.

2438
02:16:44,228 --> 02:16:45,258
I could do this all day.

2439
02:16:45,728 --> 02:16:46,268
Thank you.

2440
02:16:46,723 --> 02:16:48,673
Fantastic, awesome Jim, thanks a lot.

2441
02:16:48,693 --> 02:16:52,233
This is a, I can confirm, apart from our Infinity Day special, this

2442
02:16:52,233 --> 02:16:53,993
is a record, record length, yeah.

2443
02:16:54,028 --> 02:16:54,618
Wow.

2444
02:16:54,878 --> 02:16:58,258
I didn't see that coming, but I appreciate you guys giving me all this time, man.

2445
02:16:58,308 --> 02:16:59,628
Two, almost two and a half hours.

2446
02:16:59,668 --> 02:17:00,038
Damn.

2447
02:17:00,098 --> 02:17:01,618
Uh, I can talk all day.

2448
02:17:01,928 --> 02:17:02,648
So thank you

2449
02:17:02,863 --> 02:17:03,423
Oh, really?

2450
02:17:03,558 --> 02:17:04,958
giving me your valuable time.

2451
02:17:05,428 --> 02:17:06,428
Oh, this is awesome.

2452
02:17:06,548 --> 02:17:07,508
Thanks a lot, Jim.

2453
02:17:07,718 --> 02:17:09,308
This has been the Freedom Footprint Show.

2454
02:17:09,578 --> 02:17:10,168
Thanks for listening.