Luke Broyles on Bitcoin Self Custody and Hyperbitcoinization - FFS #82

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that's the first thing to emphasize, is take self custody of the coins,

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you remove the single point of failure of the state, you remove the single

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point of failure of, the exchange itself, the counterparty risk, and you

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remove the single point of failure of A thief withdrawing your coins, right?

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It's like, those are three huge risks.

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an 80 percent loss in fiat terms recovered in 18 months is nothing in

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comparison to a hundred percent loss permanently the underlying, right?

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It's too.

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Very different kinds of risk, and unfortunately, we're bad at

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quantifying that second one because there's no warning to it, right?

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Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show, the Bitcoin

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philosophy show with Knut Svanholm and me, Luke the Pseudo Finn.

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And we're here today with Luke Broyles, who we spoke to way back

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when he first got on the scene.

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And so we're looking forward to an update from him.

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Check in, see how he's doing.

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The big news that we know about is that he has joined the Bitcoin adviser.

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And so we're going to hear all about that and, uh, hopefully a lot more.

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So Luke, welcome back to the Freedom Footprint Show.

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you for having me.

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This is a blast.

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We were just talking before we started recording about how the

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last 11, 12 months or whatever has flown by, so happy to be back.

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Yeah, it's been a weird year for you, I assume, uh, you, you, uh, sort of

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came from, from out of nowhere and took the world by, the Bitcoin world

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by storm, and now it's a year later, and, uh, you keep on, keep on storming.

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Thank you.

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Doing my best.

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Um, . So what, what does a Bitcoin adviser do?

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Yeah, that's a great question.

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Yeah.

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Uh, yeah.

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So as far as the question we're talking about today, I think Bitcoin

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adviser stuff's really important.

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I'm glad you guys want to have me on and talk about it because

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Um, yes, it's about the business.

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Yes, it's about promoting the business, but you know, as you guys

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know, and hopefully people watching this understand is that Bitcoin

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custody is incredibly important.

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And as much as people in Bitcoin talk about it, I think

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it's still underappreciated.

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So, um, yeah, so, so those, those Dunworths, um, uh, Peter,

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Michael, um, Peter reached out to me in February of 2023.

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So actually about the time we did our first podcast together, us three here.

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Uh, you know, within those, that couple of week timeframe, whatever, Peter,

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uh, already reached out to me at that point, the Bitcoin adviser, um, was,

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uh, not, they weren't pushing Bitcoin adviser as hard as they are now, but

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basically the long story short is that Peter over the last eight years.

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So since 2015, 2016, uh, or so has been doing this company, uh, network

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advisers and Bitcoin advisers, uh, you know, been in the family office

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space for a couple of decades.

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And so he started this company.

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And in the last year or so, at least what he's told me, and I agree with

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him, is that the last year, um, really the last 12 months, is where Multisig

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Letter of Custody is starting to shine.

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for me on my end, I see that too, obviously not as much as

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he does, but that's why they're really starting to ramp it up.

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And so I was very fortunate to be one of the first, that was invited to be a part

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of the team, and These last six, eight months, whenever it's been, um, you know,

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probably longer by the time people are watching this, uh, it's been a whirlwind.

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And to your question of what we do, I don't really know.

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My family asks me, Luke, what do you do?

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And I'm like, I don't know.

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I go to Zoom and I do emails with my internet friends.

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And we talked about bitcoin.

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I mean, that's pretty much it.

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It's just talking to people, right?

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It's emails, phone calls, video calls, you know, a lot of

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networking, a lot of helping people.

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Basically, what we do is we handhold people through the process of

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setting up their vaults in their custody and securing their bitcoins.

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So it's really enjoyable because it's So focused on people and

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solving really big problems in, you know, in custody and ultimately

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helping people have peace of mind.

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So, yeah, that, that's pretty much what it consists of.

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And that's the story there.

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And it's a blast.

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Yeah, from what I know, there's been quite a bit of development in the

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multisig area with like, there, you can do more with them now, right?

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With the, like, one of the keys being a master key and there being like, key

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Key Merkle trees or whatever you call them, so, so it's more programmable.

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I, I think I saw something in Miami with someone had a, something that

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looked like the, the programming language for kids, you know, Scratch,

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but with the Bitcoin multisig stuff, so you could do if and then, and,

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or, uh, circuits with multisig stuff, uh, which looked really interesting.

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Do you know anything about that?

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I'm not sure referring to specifically, but, um, yeah,

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there's a lot of development.

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Um, in the space, a lot of new products.

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So, um, yeah, that's pretty exciting.

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Yeah, have you heard anything about that, Luke?

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Yeah, the, the, the multisig stuff intrigues me.

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I mean, as far as we've, we've heard about it, we actually, we spoke to

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Peter before the Bitcoin adviser.

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came up.

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But there was a little bit, we dug into this stuff a little bit for sure.

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Uh, but so, so I think it's, it's great to, to check in now after, yeah,

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I think you are actually the, the first official Bitcoin adviser we've

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had on since the, since it launched.

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so yeah, the, I, I really like the, the space of this multisig,

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uh, these multisig services.

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There's a whole bunch, right?

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Like Unchained, Nunchuck, others that.

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Won't be named or that I can't remember, but like, I guess, I guess

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the idea, right, is that it, it helps users key manage without having to,

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to manage all of their keys, but still get the benefits of multi sig, right?

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Isn't that the idea?

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And then, and then you guys come in to, to walk users through the

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process and, and also help to, to safeguard the multi sig, right?

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That's the idea?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Correct.

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So, you know, I, again, I think it's really important for people, especially

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those that are trying to take your Bitcoin custody the next step or wanting to

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buy more Bitcoin, take your allocation the next step, like, I think it's super

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important because most people, when they look at Bitcoin, they're scared

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about Bitcoin, volatility, let's say, and that's, uh, comparatively, that's

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a very small risk in, in my view, uh, compared to the custody risk, right?

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So if we want to think of, Okay.

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Bitcoin from risk allocators perspective, you know, let's say we have this much risk

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that is due to Bitcoin volatility, right?

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What if Bitcoin crashes?

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50, 70, 80 percent and doesn't recover in price for two years, right?

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You know, what about the cash flows or whatever, right?

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That might be like this much risk, right?

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But then the vast majority of risk, at least in my view and Peter's view,

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and really what I think should be everyone's view, the vast majority

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of risk is actually custody, right?

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And unfortunately that's human beings as, you know, and this is an insult

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to anyone, but it's true for me too, um, you know, Human means we have a

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hard time adjusting risk tolerances.

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We have a hard time, um, properly accounting for that risk.

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And, uh, unfortunately I think most Bitcoiners don't realize the risk, right?

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We all like to focus on fiat price and the volatility of fiat price, right?

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Like we're recording this Bitcoin's down 5%, uh, you know,

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the last 48 hours or whatever.

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I mean, you know, so it's always going up and down.

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Well, it's up again, right?

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up at 44.

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There we go, right?

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Proving my point.

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You know, we always focus on the fiat price.

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Uh, you know, right now Bitcoin's at 44, 000.

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Yesterday it was down to 40K after crashing.

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But, you know, every day it goes up, down a few percent.

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So this is the risk we think of.

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But people aren't thinking about that risk, right?

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And so, you know, Luke, to your point, that is the basic idea, correct?

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Is that the beauty of Bitcoin is that it removes the single pointed failure

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from base layer currency itself, right?

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So, you know, the Federal Reserve is the single pointed failure for the U.

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S.

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dollar, right?

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And every time we want to Debase to dollar, bail out banks, or pass some

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sort of stimulus, war, whatever.

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We just exploit that single point of failure, right?

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That's the double spend problem.

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And so that's the exciting thing with bitcoin is that it solves that single

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point of failure, but now building on top of that, the new question has to be kind

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of for is If the money itself has solved for the single point of failure, how are

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you going to solve for single point of failure in your custody model, right?

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And so funny enough, this is one of the reasons, you know, I'll,

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I'll first differentiate between exchanges and then self custody.

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Obviously with exchanges, as we all know, And people get tired of me

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for shouting, uh, as you guys, I'm sure here too, from, from all the,

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um, critics is, you know, don't keep your Bitcoin on exchanges, right?

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Get your Bitcoin off exchanges.

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If you have Bitcoin exchanges, you don't really own Bitcoin

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at your extreme risk, right?

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And this is precisely why, right?

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If you, you know, the Bitcoin itself doesn't have a single point of failure,

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but if you're trusting, Coinbase Bitcoin, or ETF Bitcoin, or FTX Bitcoin, or

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BlockFi Bitcoin, you know, you have a new single point of failure that is

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the counterparty risk of said exchange.

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And additionally, you also have a single point of failure of a security

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breach to that counterparty risk too.

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And this is something I think most people don't factor in, but if you

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have, let's say a Coinbase or Binance account, even if That exchange survives

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for the next 10 years, let's say.

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I mean, unfortunately, you know, I do a lot of these calls and unfortunately

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a decent number of people, you know, have some sort of, you know, have their

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identity stolen or emails hacked or password, you know, people, not to be

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too blunt, but typically the people that have their Bitcoin on exchanges,

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unfortunately, are typically the people that don't have their account.

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Security particularly down solid.

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Um, and so unfortunately that happens, um, painfully frequently where someone

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gets someone's, you know, some, the furriest person gets someone's, um,

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exchange info and they just drain their account, they drain their exchange, right?

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So, there are multiple single points of failure.

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You know, additionally, obviously, then you have the nation state.

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That said exchange isn't right.

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You have the CZ, you know, CZ, you know, whatever the 4 billion, some crazy

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number lawsuit for Binance recently, you know, with CZ, the guy who at one

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point was like free from, you know, government agents running around or

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whatever, but, you know, point is that that's the difference between.

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Non custodial Bitcoin, Bitcoin, obviously, hopefully everyone watching

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this and everyone that's a fan of yours, understands that, but it is disturbing

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that there's a lot of people that don't get that right, which I guess shouldn't

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be a surprise because perpetually in Bitcoin with an exponential curve,

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there's perpetually A large percentage of people that are very new, as in the

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last 6 to 18 months, you know, so for a lot of people that is a new message,

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but, you know, that's, that's the first thing to emphasize, I guess, is take

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self custody of the coins, you remove the single point of failure of the state,

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you remove the single point of failure of, uh, of the exchange itself, the

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counterparty risk, and you remove the single point of failure of the state.

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A thief withdrawing your coins, right?

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It's like, those are three huge risks.

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You know, again, an 80 percent loss in fiat terms recovered in 18 months is

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nothing in comparison to a hundred percent loss permanently of the underlying, right?

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It's too.

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Very different kinds of risk, and unfortunately, we're bad at

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quantifying that second one because there's no warning to it, right?

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With fiat price, you see it every 12 hours or every 30 minutes

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when you refresh your phone.

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But we don't think about a thief breaking into our Binance or Coinbase

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account until it's already happened.

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And we don't think about an FTX collapse until it's already happened, right?

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I mean, you know, I wasn't on YouTube or Twitter at the time warning people

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about FTX publicly, but I was on various, you know, Uh, uh, discords,

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channels, and, and, you know, sub discussions elsewhere on the internet.

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And I was warning people about FTX.

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Before it went under and, you know, people said it was crazy because, you know, I

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don't know what your experience is, but I remember with the FTX stuff, they're

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like, Luke, stop being so paranoid.

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Stop being a fear monger.

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Stop spreading FUD.

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You know, you know, people like you are the problem, blah, blah, blah.

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Like stop, you know, putting a whole dampen on the industry, quote

230
00:12:07,895 --> 00:12:08,975
unquote, whatever the heck that means.

231
00:12:09,855 --> 00:12:12,945
You know, cause it's like, oh, FTX is regulated as the second largest exchange.

232
00:12:13,195 --> 00:12:13,775
It's safe.

233
00:12:14,015 --> 00:12:14,525
It's fine.

234
00:12:14,575 --> 00:12:15,465
And it's funny.

235
00:12:15,465 --> 00:12:15,785
It's funny because.

236
00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:19,050
You know, I'm bullish because of the Bitcoin ETF, but in many

237
00:12:19,050 --> 00:12:20,260
ways, I think it's the same way.

238
00:12:20,670 --> 00:12:20,950
Right?

239
00:12:20,990 --> 00:12:29,470
I mean, even if 90 percent of the Bitcoin ETFs survive the next 20 years, like, I

240
00:12:29,470 --> 00:12:30,910
don't want to take a 10 percent chance.

241
00:12:31,545 --> 00:12:34,275
of my generational wealth disappearing, right?

242
00:12:34,285 --> 00:12:37,615
And so it's like, obviously I'm bullish on the Bitcoin ETF.

243
00:12:37,635 --> 00:12:40,115
You know, when we're recording this, if ETF has not been approved yet,

244
00:12:40,145 --> 00:12:43,200
maybe it will be, maybe it won't be by the time people are watching this.

245
00:12:43,363 --> 00:12:46,023
whatever the case, whether it is or isn't, it's irrelevant.

246
00:12:46,073 --> 00:12:49,583
When it is approved, you know, or when it is mainstream.

247
00:12:50,023 --> 00:12:52,893
You know, reality is in my view, I don't think even that's tolerable,

248
00:12:53,103 --> 00:12:55,803
even though it's the best form of paper Bitcoin, quote, unquote, you

249
00:12:55,803 --> 00:13:00,643
know, it's just a bitter reality that there's decades of history of

250
00:13:00,893 --> 00:13:04,503
ETFs, you know, for gold, silver, and other commodities being manipulated.

251
00:13:04,940 --> 00:13:10,010
again, FTX was the tightest with the SEC and the regulators, and that

252
00:13:10,060 --> 00:13:11,340
didn't turn out particularly well.

253
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:12,120
And it was.

254
00:13:12,375 --> 00:13:15,945
Astonishingly, uh, bad because, you know, they had like no Bitcoin, right?

255
00:13:15,945 --> 00:13:17,675
It wasn't a minor insolvency.

256
00:13:17,675 --> 00:13:19,785
It was like complete total debauchery.

257
00:13:20,295 --> 00:13:24,065
Um, so, you know, I, I guess that's kind of my perspective there, right?

258
00:13:24,085 --> 00:13:28,455
Is that I, I don't know what your opinions would be, but my opinion is

259
00:13:28,455 --> 00:13:33,555
that upcoming cycles, uh, the, the boom busts of upcoming cycles in large part,

260
00:13:33,555 --> 00:13:35,875
I think will be from the Trojan horse.

261
00:13:35,875 --> 00:13:37,135
That is the Bitcoin ETF.

262
00:13:37,335 --> 00:13:40,263
the incoming liquidity and demand for Bitcoin via the ETF,

263
00:13:40,283 --> 00:13:41,473
more traditional finance means.

264
00:13:41,843 --> 00:13:47,683
And then of course, obviously portion of those will be rug pulled maybe partially,

265
00:13:47,703 --> 00:13:51,673
maybe entirely, maybe all of them rug pulled, you know, I don't know, but to

266
00:13:51,673 --> 00:13:53,053
me, it's basically like a roulette, right?

267
00:13:53,053 --> 00:13:56,493
And even if the odds are 90 percent in your favor with the ETFs and

268
00:13:56,493 --> 00:14:00,263
these paper Bitcoins, it's like to me, it's just not justifiable.

269
00:14:00,913 --> 00:14:05,093
And so anyway, all that to say is with that said, then the question is.

270
00:14:05,918 --> 00:14:09,438
If you understand Bitcoin, single pointed failure for the currency, and if you

271
00:14:09,438 --> 00:14:11,918
understand don't keep it on exchange because that's a single pointed failure

272
00:14:11,918 --> 00:14:17,128
for custody, then the question is, okay, counterparty risk is not excusable

273
00:14:17,168 --> 00:14:18,708
from a capital allocation perspective.

274
00:14:18,728 --> 00:14:21,468
So now, how do we self custody in the safest way possible?

275
00:14:22,138 --> 00:14:24,798
And that's where collateral custody multisig comes in.

276
00:14:24,838 --> 00:14:29,083
Basically, what we're trying to do Is we're trying to be an easy onboarding

277
00:14:29,093 --> 00:14:33,203
route for new Bitcoiners as well as hardcore Bitcoiners like us,

278
00:14:33,243 --> 00:14:36,663
like, you know, basically diverting demand away from paper Bitcoin to

279
00:14:36,663 --> 00:14:41,733
real Bitcoin, um, with very, very, uh, reasonable value proposition.

280
00:14:41,883 --> 00:14:43,773
So, yeah, that's the idea.

281
00:14:44,242 --> 00:14:46,332
Yeah, uh, couldn't agree more.

282
00:14:46,352 --> 00:14:51,202
I mean, another way to say risk management is just responsibility.

283
00:14:51,602 --> 00:14:53,572
They're, they're two sides of the same coin.

284
00:14:53,852 --> 00:14:57,872
I mean, if, if I look back at my past when I was the captain

285
00:14:57,882 --> 00:15:02,497
of a boat, uh, for instance, then, uh, That's risk management.

286
00:15:02,507 --> 00:15:03,237
That's all it is.

287
00:15:03,277 --> 00:15:06,317
Like, you're taking responsibility for this thing, for taking it from place

288
00:15:06,347 --> 00:15:12,577
A to place B, uh, or port A to port B, and everything that happens in between,

289
00:15:12,587 --> 00:15:17,377
you have to take different kinds of risks into account, and, uh, account

290
00:15:17,387 --> 00:15:21,577
for them all, and weigh them against one another, what's more risky and

291
00:15:21,577 --> 00:15:26,327
what's less risky, and I think this, not your keys, not your coins, goes so

292
00:15:26,327 --> 00:15:31,342
much deeper than people understand, so, so all this, This ETF stuff and all the

293
00:15:31,342 --> 00:15:33,972
paper Bitcoin stuff, this is transitory.

294
00:15:33,972 --> 00:15:36,222
This is between now and hyperbitcoinization.

295
00:15:36,262 --> 00:15:37,202
It's a phase.

296
00:15:37,532 --> 00:15:42,412
It's true that it will attract a ton of normal money, quote

297
00:15:42,412 --> 00:15:44,532
unquote normal money to Bitcoin.

298
00:15:45,461 --> 00:15:49,891
But at the same time, it's, it's, it's sort of puts Bitcoin in the spotlight.

299
00:15:50,076 --> 00:15:56,386
And, uh, Bitcoin will steal the show because , because Bitcoin 200 x-ing now

300
00:15:56,386 --> 00:16:02,716
from 50 K dollars to, to a million, it is cer certainly gonna raise some eyebrows.

301
00:16:02,751 --> 00:16:03,121
million.

302
00:16:03,961 --> 00:16:05,256
Uh, uh, 10 million.

303
00:16:05,256 --> 00:16:05,436
Yeah.

304
00:16:05,436 --> 00:16:05,646
Yeah.

305
00:16:05,646 --> 00:16:06,341
2000 x then.

306
00:16:07,236 --> 00:16:09,796
Or, uh, am I doing the maths wrong again, Luke?

307
00:16:09,796 --> 00:16:11,706
Yeah, I am, right, so I'm 1 0

308
00:16:11,721 --> 00:16:12,411
is 10 million.

309
00:16:12,681 --> 00:16:12,771
A 2000x

310
00:16:13,006 --> 00:16:17,636
yeah, it's 10 million, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so 20x would be 1 million,

311
00:16:18,066 --> 00:16:24,166
and the 200x would be 10 million, um, and regardless of which one it is, it's

312
00:16:24,176 --> 00:16:30,641
going to attract a lot of eyes, uh, and Here's a fun thing to think about.

313
00:16:31,051 --> 00:16:32,221
What does that imply?

314
00:16:32,461 --> 00:16:34,511
What does it mean for your average bitcoiner?

315
00:16:34,931 --> 00:16:40,151
What will happen to Like, it has happened before, but on a much smaller scale.

316
00:16:40,261 --> 00:16:46,588
It's one thing to go from, you know, a hundred to a thousand dollars, or 200 to

317
00:16:46,588 --> 00:16:54,428
17, 000, but going from 50, 000 to 10, 000, 000 is a different story altogether.

318
00:16:54,448 --> 00:16:59,928
Like, every time this happens, it's on an order of magnitude, the network is

319
00:16:59,928 --> 00:17:01,618
an order of magnitude larger, right?

320
00:17:02,616 --> 00:17:04,876
I guess that's a fun topic to explore.

321
00:17:04,906 --> 00:17:06,976
What happens the next time around?

322
00:17:06,986 --> 00:17:10,981
Like, say, instead of Bitcoin, let's Pick a low number, say that Bitcoin

323
00:17:10,991 --> 00:17:12,761
is at 1 million dollars a coin.

324
00:17:13,494 --> 00:17:17,244
what does that mean for Bitcoin oriented politicians?

325
00:17:17,264 --> 00:17:21,114
What does it mean for hardware wallet manufacturers?

326
00:17:21,114 --> 00:17:22,854
What does it mean for the exchanges?

327
00:17:23,054 --> 00:17:24,994
I know they're running out of coins already.

328
00:17:25,104 --> 00:17:27,204
Um, the satsqueeze is real.

329
00:17:27,824 --> 00:17:30,054
I mean What's your view on this?

330
00:17:30,516 --> 00:17:34,717
Yeah, I think, well, you mentioned the politicians to start with that, I think

331
00:17:34,767 --> 00:17:38,657
the horse and locomotive metaphor, I probably said on your show before, but,

332
00:17:39,017 --> 00:17:43,327
uh, to give us, well, actually, maybe I didn't, but anyway, to give a different

333
00:17:43,327 --> 00:17:45,947
take on that, you know, typically when I talk about the horse and locomotive

334
00:17:45,947 --> 00:17:49,307
metaphor, it's about like, you can't understand Cisco in the system, right?

335
00:17:49,317 --> 00:17:51,297
It's very much like the Jeff Booth idea, right?

336
00:17:51,547 --> 00:17:52,197
But I think.

337
00:17:52,672 --> 00:17:57,682
I think the big wave for Bitcoin adoption after, you know, ETF and traditional

338
00:17:57,682 --> 00:18:01,472
finance, you know, kind of embraces it, you know, for, for a little while before

339
00:18:01,472 --> 00:18:03,012
they get rug pulled from it once or twice.

340
00:18:03,492 --> 00:18:05,532
Uh, I, I really think it's the electric grid, right?

341
00:18:05,592 --> 00:18:09,242
I mean, the, just the stories, you know, I, I talked to.

342
00:18:09,415 --> 00:18:12,825
some of the guys plugging in Bitcoin, you know, to flare methane.

343
00:18:12,835 --> 00:18:18,185
I've talked to, um, um, Erik over, um, you know, doing incredible work over in Africa

344
00:18:18,205 --> 00:18:19,825
with, with the small projects there.

345
00:18:19,835 --> 00:18:20,965
And it's just like, I look at that.

346
00:18:21,585 --> 00:18:24,932
And in the same way, the Bitcoin ETF is kind of like the Bitcoin Trojan

347
00:18:24,932 --> 00:18:26,712
horse for Wall Street adopting Bitcoin.

348
00:18:26,732 --> 00:18:30,742
I think Bitcoin or the, the, the implications of Bitcoin on the electric

349
00:18:30,752 --> 00:18:33,742
grid and power generation is like the Trojan horse for nation states.

350
00:18:33,762 --> 00:18:34,092
Right.

351
00:18:34,532 --> 00:18:38,992
Uh, you know, and it's actually the main reason I think a nation state attack

352
00:18:39,012 --> 00:18:42,912
on Bitcoin in, in a couple of years, I think it's going to be pretty low.

353
00:18:42,912 --> 00:18:46,602
Probably it's just my guess, but I think that's going to be because of

354
00:18:46,642 --> 00:18:49,312
the integration of it into the grid.

355
00:18:49,352 --> 00:18:49,672
Right.

356
00:18:49,732 --> 00:18:50,672
So I think.

357
00:18:51,192 --> 00:18:52,872
I think that is lost on people.

358
00:18:52,872 --> 00:18:55,752
You know, most people are still thinking of it as money or number

359
00:18:55,752 --> 00:18:59,892
go up stuff, but they're not really thinking about it from that perspective.

360
00:18:59,902 --> 00:19:00,112
Right.

361
00:19:00,112 --> 00:19:01,782
It's like looking at the locomotive.

362
00:19:02,142 --> 00:19:03,042
And saying, Oh, wow.

363
00:19:03,042 --> 00:19:04,412
I finally understand the locomotive.

364
00:19:04,412 --> 00:19:09,122
It's going to be a big deal compared to the horse because, you know, it's, you

365
00:19:09,122 --> 00:19:11,912
can go 30 miles, uh, you know, faster.

366
00:19:11,942 --> 00:19:12,182
Right.

367
00:19:12,182 --> 00:19:13,392
But they're completely missing that.

368
00:19:13,412 --> 00:19:15,752
No, there's, it's all the locomotives.

369
00:19:15,982 --> 00:19:20,012
That's true, but it's also a big deal because now you can move 50

370
00:19:20,012 --> 00:19:22,922
times the goods for, you know, a third of the cost or whatever.

371
00:19:22,962 --> 00:19:23,232
Right.

372
00:19:23,272 --> 00:19:27,402
Or now you can move a bunch of cannons and, and men in uniform.

373
00:19:27,777 --> 00:19:29,147
A lot faster than the front lines, right?

374
00:19:29,147 --> 00:19:32,762
In large part, that's why, here in the United States, where I am, you

375
00:19:32,762 --> 00:19:37,042
know, it's a huge part of why the North won the Civil War over, over the

376
00:19:37,072 --> 00:19:38,592
Confederacy, over the South, right?

377
00:19:39,102 --> 00:19:41,792
Obviously, there's a lot of factors there, but one of the main ones is that

378
00:19:41,792 --> 00:19:45,342
the North had much better manufacturing and much better locomotives, right?

379
00:19:45,342 --> 00:19:49,482
We could move men to the front lines, uh, a lot faster than the South, right?

380
00:19:49,482 --> 00:19:54,587
And so I think, In the same way that the locomotive, people resist it at first,

381
00:19:54,587 --> 00:19:59,287
but then they realize, you know, if we don't build this train thing of, you

382
00:19:59,287 --> 00:20:03,027
know, I don't get it, but if we don't spend a bunch of money on it really

383
00:20:03,027 --> 00:20:07,677
quickly, um, our enemies are going to, and they're going to dominate us.

384
00:20:07,717 --> 00:20:10,957
And we're going to no longer have the option to build a locomotive because

385
00:20:10,957 --> 00:20:12,367
we won't exist as a nation state.

386
00:20:12,367 --> 00:20:12,657
Right.

387
00:20:12,717 --> 00:20:13,227
And so.

388
00:20:13,749 --> 00:20:16,853
as much as, you know, both you and I and probably many people watching are

389
00:20:16,853 --> 00:20:21,717
not, in, uh, huge fans of the state, you know, I, I think that as a reality

390
00:20:21,717 --> 00:20:23,377
that it's a transition point, right?

391
00:20:23,377 --> 00:20:27,767
And I think that, you know, states and large corporations will adopt it

392
00:20:27,767 --> 00:20:29,017
and integrate into the electric grid.

393
00:20:29,432 --> 00:20:33,632
If it makes their cash flows better, if it reduces expenses, if it improves,

394
00:20:33,682 --> 00:20:37,292
therefore, their share price, stock price, you know, gets their CEOs or

395
00:20:37,292 --> 00:20:40,632
whomever, uh, you know, more benefits, gets the, gets the politicians,

396
00:20:40,661 --> 00:20:42,081
their, their districts, more jobs.

397
00:20:42,472 --> 00:20:45,642
I mean, I think they're going to be in favor of that for their electric grids.

398
00:20:45,692 --> 00:20:49,122
And then I think it's going to be a kind of a new form of, you

399
00:20:49,122 --> 00:20:51,702
know, space race essentially, except into the digital world.

400
00:20:52,152 --> 00:20:55,782
So, you know, I mean a million dollar Bitcoin, that's only a 20 X, right?

401
00:20:56,221 --> 00:20:58,512
Um, from here, I mean, the ETFs.

402
00:20:59,292 --> 00:21:03,082
Potentially alone, theoretically could push Bitcoin to a million dollars.

403
00:21:03,592 --> 00:21:06,792
And then people forget about like when I'm saying the electric grid, it's like

404
00:21:06,792 --> 00:21:10,712
that, you know, like, don't even think about that until a million dollar Bitcoin.

405
00:21:10,722 --> 00:21:13,312
And then once it's a million dollar Bitcoin, the whole integration to

406
00:21:13,312 --> 00:21:16,821
the electric grid thing, that's a huge deal for number go up, right?

407
00:21:16,902 --> 00:21:18,912
Because that's more and more energy backing it.

408
00:21:18,952 --> 00:21:22,372
That's more and more money printed to subsidize said as much as I'm against

409
00:21:22,382 --> 00:21:25,762
printing money, like that's just game theory, what they will do, right?

410
00:21:25,772 --> 00:21:26,002
Like.

411
00:21:26,547 --> 00:21:30,837
If we have a slightly, we could tolerate a slightly higher inflation

412
00:21:30,837 --> 00:21:32,197
rate from a policy perspective.

413
00:21:32,197 --> 00:21:36,077
Again, not that I support it, but I think nation states will realize, you know, we

414
00:21:36,077 --> 00:21:40,317
can tolerate a slightly higher inflation rate to raise more capital, you know,

415
00:21:40,347 --> 00:21:46,736
deploy more printed dollars and have more debt and use that printed fiat money,

416
00:21:46,796 --> 00:21:48,611
you know, scam money, political currency.

417
00:21:48,852 --> 00:21:51,032
To support a Bitcoin infrastructure.

418
00:21:51,032 --> 00:21:53,370
That's, kind of like the Michael Saylor strategy, right?

419
00:21:53,540 --> 00:21:57,130
You know, basically make our stock weaker, but ultimately the Bitcoin we're

420
00:21:57,140 --> 00:21:58,400
backing that with, you know, kind of.

421
00:21:58,820 --> 00:21:59,750
Mix up for that, right?

422
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,480
And so that, that's kind of the infinite money loop, right?

423
00:22:02,690 --> 00:22:07,300
Instead of Saylor buying 5 over the course of three years, you know, what if

424
00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:11,180
you have three different nation states each deploying 5 billion a week, right?

425
00:22:11,410 --> 00:22:13,355
Into Bitcoin and Bitcoin infrastructure, right?

426
00:22:13,410 --> 00:22:16,570
that might sound like a lot of money to people listening, but hey, if you

427
00:22:16,570 --> 00:22:21,080
can make 5 billion out of nothing, I mean, you know, and you're a politician

428
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,727
that's Looking to preserve your own self interest, I mean, in the same way that,

429
00:22:26,027 --> 00:22:29,677
yeah, anyway, that's just my thought of what that next step looks like.

430
00:22:30,025 --> 00:22:34,845
I, I know that there's a, there's a bit of a dilemma here with, um, pro Bitcoin,

431
00:22:34,995 --> 00:22:42,425
so quote unquote pro Bitcoin politicians because, uh, if, if a pro Bitcoin

432
00:22:42,995 --> 00:22:47,495
politician should win in every country, then that's sort of the guy who decides

433
00:22:47,765 --> 00:22:52,295
what Bitcoin is, , and so bitcoin sorts.

434
00:22:53,150 --> 00:22:57,830
Sort of needs to be somewhat illegal or somewhat shady and somewhat,

435
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,910
because otherwise it's not the separation of money and state, is it?

436
00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:03,030
It's just more of the same.

437
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,730
So yeah, you may have a state that is better than the state right now.

438
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:12,170
But it's still someone telling you that, uh, I'm going to

439
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:13,880
allow you to run your node.

440
00:23:13,940 --> 00:23:15,040
Like, fuck you.

441
00:23:15,050 --> 00:23:20,250
Like, that's the whole point of the node is to not be, not have to

442
00:23:20,250 --> 00:23:24,180
give a crap about allowance being allowed this or being allowed that.

443
00:23:24,590 --> 00:23:26,930
That's the whole point of the network in the first place.

444
00:23:27,860 --> 00:23:31,210
And I think there's some, there's really something deep to that, that

445
00:23:31,300 --> 00:23:35,980
it needs to be that way, it needs to be this rebellious thing in order

446
00:23:35,980 --> 00:23:39,537
for it to ever separate anything from anything, because you can't,

447
00:23:40,177 --> 00:23:42,397
uh, you can't have both, really.

448
00:23:42,956 --> 00:23:44,207
Yeah, right, I agree with that.

449
00:23:44,267 --> 00:23:46,882
I mean, like Bitcoin doesn't need politicians, right?

450
00:23:46,882 --> 00:23:51,514
I mean, shoot, with the China ban in mid 2021, you know, they banned, what

451
00:23:51,514 --> 00:23:57,224
was it, roughly, uh, 30 percent of, uh, Bitcoin's, you know, hash rate, basically,

452
00:23:57,224 --> 00:24:00,434
you know, the huge crashing hash rate, the biggest one in the last five years, right?

453
00:24:00,969 --> 00:24:04,529
Network recovered in like four months, which is remarkable, by

454
00:24:04,529 --> 00:24:07,934
the way, but it's like, I think that proves your point, right?

455
00:24:07,934 --> 00:24:10,464
Is that Bitcoin doesn't need these politicians and, you

456
00:24:10,464 --> 00:24:12,459
know, It's often one of the

457
00:24:12,744 --> 00:24:16,924
that's an example of, of politicians that were against Bitcoin.

458
00:24:17,174 --> 00:24:18,594
But I'm worried about the pro

459
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:19,819
yes, yes,

460
00:24:20,134 --> 00:24:25,614
Like, there's a, it's a different attack vector, uh, but there is a risk there too.

461
00:24:26,154 --> 00:24:31,194
I mean, it's, it's sort of, sort of ties into this, uh, uh, spam

462
00:24:31,194 --> 00:24:35,434
debate now with the, uh, the, uh, Ordinals and, uh, all this.

463
00:24:35,719 --> 00:24:39,429
Crap that is, like, people paying to clog up the blockchain.

464
00:24:39,459 --> 00:24:41,659
The problem seems to be solved for the moment.

465
00:24:42,069 --> 00:24:43,779
I mean, the fees are down again.

466
00:24:44,429 --> 00:24:49,689
I guess they're gonna run out of money, but, but, there are, like, it's, it's

467
00:24:49,709 --> 00:24:54,039
anti fragile, but it's also very delicate.

468
00:24:54,629 --> 00:25:01,785
Like, it relies on Bitcoiners being, doing the work and, and being vigilant

469
00:25:01,785 --> 00:25:07,178
and staying not being passive, uh, in defending it, and, and keeping

470
00:25:07,178 --> 00:25:10,568
it real, to use an ology term.

471
00:25:11,356 --> 00:25:14,966
yeah, no, I, I just want to say I agree with that, you know, that I

472
00:25:14,966 --> 00:25:20,556
think the more clickable or the more commonly understood attack vector are

473
00:25:20,566 --> 00:25:24,356
politicians negative towards Bitcoin, you know, but I agree with you, I

474
00:25:24,356 --> 00:25:28,766
think politicians positive towards Bitcoin can be a threat as well, right?

475
00:25:28,806 --> 00:25:35,371
I think I, for me, I take peace of mind, though, knowing that a politician opting

476
00:25:35,371 --> 00:25:41,091
out, a person in politics opting out a political currency and opting towards

477
00:25:41,281 --> 00:25:45,601
a political currency, though, even if they increase their influence within

478
00:25:46,114 --> 00:25:49,634
Bitcoin, you know, by being a voice, quote unquote, in the space or having, you

479
00:25:49,634 --> 00:25:53,459
know, a following, you know, I think net net, it actually gives them a following.

480
00:25:54,199 --> 00:25:57,775
Less kinetic and forceful power over people because they're abandoning,

481
00:25:57,785 --> 00:25:58,895
you know, the political sense, right?

482
00:25:58,895 --> 00:26:01,655
So like, you know, Bukele, I think is probably the prime example of this, right?

483
00:26:01,911 --> 00:26:05,247
I'm generally, you know, a fan of Bukele, right?

484
00:26:05,247 --> 00:26:08,537
But at the same time, that doesn't mean that I support everything he's done.

485
00:26:08,537 --> 00:26:11,737
And that doesn't mean that I think he's infallible and, you know,

486
00:26:11,747 --> 00:26:12,937
clearly the thing can change, right?

487
00:26:12,987 --> 00:26:17,737
I mean, I've never met Bukele, but, you know, I've spent some time with, um, um,

488
00:26:17,747 --> 00:26:21,877
Max Keiser and Stacey, you know, where they talked about him a lot, obviously.

489
00:26:21,917 --> 00:26:27,305
And, you know, that's one thing to think about is that, comparing him to the other

490
00:26:27,395 --> 00:26:31,885
politicians of Latin America, it's like, arguably he's more powerful than the other

491
00:26:31,885 --> 00:26:35,355
politicians of Latin America because his approval ratings are just so crazy high

492
00:26:35,395 --> 00:26:39,135
and, you know, people love him, you know, and perhaps to a dangerous degree, right?

493
00:26:39,135 --> 00:26:40,625
This is the attack vector you're talking about.

494
00:26:41,288 --> 00:26:45,218
I, I guess I kind of forced myself to be the optimist in that, you know,

495
00:26:45,218 --> 00:26:50,344
the president of Venezuela, has like total control of dictatorship over the

496
00:26:50,344 --> 00:26:51,904
country because they control the money.

497
00:26:52,124 --> 00:26:54,844
They debase on their, you know, population all the time.

498
00:26:54,844 --> 00:26:56,104
Venezuela hyperinflation, right?

499
00:26:56,104 --> 00:26:58,574
One of the most famous examples of the century so far.

500
00:26:59,250 --> 00:27:02,320
so when I look forward, it seems Bukele is only going to have more and more

501
00:27:02,330 --> 00:27:05,940
influence, you know, even if it leaves politics, you know, his voice and

502
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,600
reputation will have a higher influence.

503
00:27:08,185 --> 00:27:13,125
Especially as Bitcoin vindicates him and shows that he was right, you know,

504
00:27:13,145 --> 00:27:15,985
but then the Venezuelan president or other, you know, um, leaders

505
00:27:15,985 --> 00:27:19,175
of, of the region, like I just see their influence declining, right?

506
00:27:19,175 --> 00:27:21,345
So, so anyway, I, I think you're right.

507
00:27:21,355 --> 00:27:23,655
I think it is a potential attack vector.

508
00:27:23,741 --> 00:27:26,501
you know, I don't know if one is preferable over the other,

509
00:27:26,501 --> 00:27:27,841
but I think both are inevitable.

510
00:27:28,181 --> 00:27:30,311
You know, like, I don't think it's that we can stop it.

511
00:27:30,391 --> 00:27:33,941
I mean, there will be pro, there will be anti Bitcoin politicians.

512
00:27:33,941 --> 00:27:34,731
That's going to be notable.

513
00:27:34,741 --> 00:27:37,131
And I think there will be very pro Bitcoin politicians.

514
00:27:37,454 --> 00:27:38,818
both of those have their trade offs.

515
00:27:38,928 --> 00:27:44,038
Um, and I think it's just a matter of case by case being diligent.

516
00:27:45,238 --> 00:27:49,778
Yeah, and the beauty here is that regardless, it's still a Trojan horse.

517
00:27:49,968 --> 00:27:53,598
It will still give them less power over time.

518
00:27:53,998 --> 00:27:57,798
Less and less power over time as the, for our grandchildren and so on.

519
00:27:57,838 --> 00:28:02,598
So, so it's still, it, it acts as the Trojan horse with the pro guy and

520
00:28:02,598 --> 00:28:05,096
with the, uh, against Bitcoin guy.

521
00:28:05,354 --> 00:28:08,645
Alright, you might have noticed that we've recently partnered with AmberApp.

522
00:28:08,910 --> 00:28:12,846
After our episode with Izzy, their CEO, and our close friend, we knew we

523
00:28:12,846 --> 00:28:15,941
would have to partner with them in some way, If you haven't seen our episode

524
00:28:15,941 --> 00:28:19,659
with Izzy, definitely go check it out, you'll see why it's such a great fit,

525
00:28:19,886 --> 00:28:23,459
and honestly, they're following the orange glowing light like Izzy always

526
00:28:23,459 --> 00:28:27,177
says, and that's exactly what we try to do here at the Freedom Footprint Show.

527
00:28:27,472 --> 00:28:29,599
The big news about AmberApp is that they're going to be

528
00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:31,244
launching their version 2.

529
00:28:31,441 --> 00:28:34,632
I've seen some of the screenshots and it looks fantastic.

530
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:38,364
They're going to be including a non custodial on chain wallet, an

531
00:28:38,383 --> 00:28:42,248
anonymous lightning wallet, a fiat wallet, And finally, it's going

532
00:28:42,248 --> 00:28:43,466
to be an exchange, of course.

533
00:28:43,685 --> 00:28:46,323
it's going to be just this super app, They're also going

534
00:28:46,323 --> 00:28:47,550
to be launching globally.

535
00:28:47,569 --> 00:28:48,978
Everyone's going to be able to use it.

536
00:28:49,196 --> 00:28:50,768
we're really excited about all that.

537
00:28:50,887 --> 00:28:53,287
Stay tuned with us and you'll hear all about it.

538
00:28:53,468 --> 00:28:55,605
And for now, check out their website, amber.

539
00:28:55,832 --> 00:28:58,296
app and the episode with Izzy to find out more.

540
00:28:59,110 --> 00:29:01,900
Yeah, what else happens when Bitcoin reaches a million dollars?

541
00:29:01,930 --> 00:29:08,120
Like, is that, um, is that a point where we don't see cycles anymore?

542
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,170
We just have numbers go up constantly?

543
00:29:10,260 --> 00:29:13,770
Like, is that, uh, is that that cycle?

544
00:29:14,915 --> 00:29:17,455
The million dollar bitcoin price, what triggers

545
00:29:17,895 --> 00:29:20,695
hyperbitcoinization in a real sense?

546
00:29:20,735 --> 00:29:22,435
Or is that too bullish?

547
00:29:23,204 --> 00:29:23,644
I don't know.

548
00:29:23,644 --> 00:29:24,694
I think it might be too bearish.

549
00:29:24,704 --> 00:29:28,284
I mean, like really, you know, I mean, it's like, there's what 1.

550
00:29:28,284 --> 00:29:29,864
8 million Bitcoin on exchanges.

551
00:29:30,397 --> 00:29:32,507
there's 60 million millionaires.

552
00:29:33,138 --> 00:29:37,397
so if one in 30 of those millionaires, AKA 2 million of them, decide

553
00:29:37,407 --> 00:29:42,247
they want one Bitcoin to recording this video, it's 44, 000 us.

554
00:29:42,277 --> 00:29:42,577
So.

555
00:29:42,982 --> 00:29:46,162
You know, a 5 percent allocation for a millionaire is one bitcoin.

556
00:29:46,902 --> 00:29:52,592
I mean, if one in 30 millionaires wants a 5 percent allocation, aka they

557
00:29:52,592 --> 00:29:56,032
want to get to one bitcoin, that's a major unit bias psychological level.

558
00:29:56,062 --> 00:29:58,272
I mean, that's all of them, right?

559
00:29:59,536 --> 00:30:00,776
that's, that's crazy to think about.

560
00:30:00,786 --> 00:30:04,176
Like that's only, that's not even 3 percent of the

561
00:30:04,176 --> 00:30:05,216
world's millionaires, right?

562
00:30:05,436 --> 00:30:08,066
Then factor in all the people that their unit bias level

563
00:30:08,066 --> 00:30:09,386
they want is not one bitcoin.

564
00:30:09,556 --> 00:30:11,296
It's a million sats, right?

565
00:30:11,296 --> 00:30:13,796
I mean, yes, it's only 1 percent of the.

566
00:30:14,096 --> 00:30:14,646
Bitcoin.

567
00:30:14,986 --> 00:30:17,816
But there's well over a hundred times that many people, right?

568
00:30:18,216 --> 00:30:21,636
And, you know, they may not be able to allocate it as fast because unlike

569
00:30:21,636 --> 00:30:24,912
a millionaire, you know, maybe they have less disposable assets or less

570
00:30:24,942 --> 00:30:28,632
assets liquid, but you know, all those cash flows, all those assets, I

571
00:30:28,632 --> 00:30:33,042
mean, it's just like, I just look at the numbers and the Bitcoin exchanges

572
00:30:33,042 --> 00:30:36,616
and it's like crazy, Just small percentages of people taking small

573
00:30:36,616 --> 00:30:38,977
percentages, drains it completely, right?

574
00:30:39,197 --> 00:30:42,527
You know, like, what if, you know, like I just said, one in 30

575
00:30:42,527 --> 00:30:46,847
millionaires wanting, uh, one bitcoin to 5 percent allocation, okay?

576
00:30:47,267 --> 00:30:49,877
But what if it's a smaller number, right?

577
00:30:49,877 --> 00:30:52,217
What if it's not one in 30, but one in 60 billionaires

578
00:30:52,427 --> 00:30:53,777
wanting a 10 percent allocation?

579
00:30:53,777 --> 00:30:54,427
It's the same math.

580
00:30:55,292 --> 00:30:59,302
Or what if it's one in 120 millionaires wanting a 20 percent allocation, right?

581
00:30:59,302 --> 00:31:01,282
Is a 20 percent Bitcoin allocation crazy?

582
00:31:02,469 --> 00:31:07,633
it may sound crazy to people now, but yeah, I don't think it is, but I think

583
00:31:07,673 --> 00:31:12,443
easily one in 120 millionaires will say, I want a 20 percent allocation.

584
00:31:12,713 --> 00:31:16,913
So factor in the one in 120 wanting a 20 percent allocation, plus the one in 60

585
00:31:17,033 --> 00:31:22,003
wanting a 10 percent allocation, plus the one in 30 wanting a 5 percent allocation.

586
00:31:22,528 --> 00:31:27,369
You know, now we're talking about one in, you know, now like one in 31, right?

587
00:31:27,369 --> 00:31:33,079
So still like probably not even, um, 3 percent of millionaires, but

588
00:31:33,079 --> 00:31:36,769
yet that's three times the total supply of Bitcoin exchanges, right?

589
00:31:36,809 --> 00:31:40,039
I mean, obviously as they buy it and they force price up, that's going to

590
00:31:40,039 --> 00:31:42,669
change, but you know, in principle, like I just look at that and I

591
00:31:42,699 --> 00:31:46,699
think, you know, it's just coins and exchanges are not enough, you know, and

592
00:31:46,699 --> 00:31:47,879
that's just the millionaires, right?

593
00:31:47,879 --> 00:31:50,899
You know, then you have the billionaires like Saylor, you know, uh, when

594
00:31:50,899 --> 00:31:52,479
we're recording this, Saylor, um.

595
00:31:52,969 --> 00:31:55,499
A few weeks ago announced that MicroStrategy is buying

596
00:31:55,499 --> 00:31:57,509
another 600 million of Bitcoin.

597
00:31:57,689 --> 00:32:01,689
And then he announced personally, he's going to sell 200 stock,

598
00:32:01,709 --> 00:32:04,800
roughly speaking, and, and acquire 3.

599
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,833
4 million of Bitcoin,

600
00:32:06,954 --> 00:32:07,454
Per day.

601
00:32:07,794 --> 00:32:08,014
Yeah.

602
00:32:08,014 --> 00:32:09,594
Per day based on market fluctuation.

603
00:32:09,594 --> 00:32:09,844
Right.

604
00:32:10,204 --> 00:32:11,004
Which is crazy.

605
00:32:11,104 --> 00:32:11,424
Yeah,

606
00:32:12,154 --> 00:32:15,614
I mean, with the halving in April, 2024, there's only 20 million of Bitcoin issued

607
00:32:15,624 --> 00:32:17,704
per day at Bitcoin's current price, right?

608
00:32:17,704 --> 00:32:18,814
450 Bitcoin a day.

609
00:32:18,844 --> 00:32:20,614
I mean, that's like, okay.

610
00:32:20,684 --> 00:32:25,004
Saylor alone is like a sixth of all the Bitcoin minted on the day.

611
00:32:25,574 --> 00:32:26,714
It's crazy, crazy math.

612
00:32:27,414 --> 00:32:29,044
let me fill in the blanks here.

613
00:32:29,224 --> 00:32:29,494
So

614
00:32:29,549 --> 00:32:30,159
yeah, please do.

615
00:32:30,504 --> 00:32:33,804
most people don't know this, but the difference between a billion

616
00:32:33,804 --> 00:32:36,044
and a million is about a billion.

617
00:32:36,974 --> 00:32:40,874
Like, the million is so small in comparison to the billion, so you can

618
00:32:41,244 --> 00:32:42,664
just don't worry about that million.

619
00:32:42,964 --> 00:32:45,914
So a billionaire is a very different thing from a millionaire.

620
00:32:48,344 --> 00:32:54,254
And also, these first 15 years, like Bitcoin is 15 years old, as we speak,

621
00:32:54,284 --> 00:32:56,654
Bitcoin is 15 years and one day old.

622
00:32:57,304 --> 00:33:02,234
And during these first 15 years, we've mined 93 percent of the

623
00:33:02,234 --> 00:33:03,934
total supply that will ever exist.

624
00:33:04,824 --> 00:33:06,754
Over the next 15 years, we'll mine six.

625
00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:08,429
6 percent more.

626
00:33:09,062 --> 00:33:16,880
So, uh, and from that point, from that point on, until the last Satoshi's

627
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,610
mind will mind the last percent.

628
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,240
So like over the next 15 years, 6%.

629
00:33:22,140 --> 00:33:26,910
So comparing the first 15 years to, to these next 15 years, it's just.

630
00:33:27,625 --> 00:33:34,015
Way off, because of the immense sats squeeze, and also, like, the sats on

631
00:33:34,015 --> 00:33:38,815
exchanges, half of them have been sold the last six months, and now Sailor is

632
00:33:38,815 --> 00:33:44,685
trying to buy every day, like, three mil, like, and, and add to that everything

633
00:33:44,685 --> 00:33:49,885
else that you just said, like, the supply and demand curves are just, it's a,

634
00:33:50,195 --> 00:33:56,025
it's a train crash, uh, it just can't go anywhere, but it's Completely bonkers.

635
00:33:56,065 --> 00:33:58,555
It's not number go up anymore, it's number explode.

636
00:33:59,265 --> 00:34:00,205
You make a great point.

637
00:34:00,405 --> 00:34:02,655
I love the way you said that, that the difference between a million

638
00:34:02,695 --> 00:34:06,505
and a billion is pretty much a billion, you know, a million's,

639
00:34:06,995 --> 00:34:08,565
you know, what, 10th of a percent

640
00:34:08,705 --> 00:34:09,185
It is.

641
00:34:09,235 --> 00:34:10,725
People don't know this, but it is.

642
00:34:10,725 --> 00:34:11,955
Yeah, and

643
00:34:11,955 --> 00:34:12,505
think of it that way.

644
00:34:12,675 --> 00:34:14,785
between a trillion and a billion is the same thing.

645
00:34:14,785 --> 00:34:15,645
It's about a trillion.

646
00:34:15,854 --> 00:34:16,134
right.

647
00:34:16,204 --> 00:34:19,124
And that's why people say, oh, well, Bitcoin can't go to, you know, 10

648
00:34:19,124 --> 00:34:23,694
million or 100 million because, you know, that's just so many zeros.

649
00:34:23,804 --> 00:34:25,234
So you don't understand orders of magnitude.

650
00:34:25,244 --> 00:34:27,024
You don't understand how much money that would take, Luke.

651
00:34:27,744 --> 00:34:32,334
But it's like, yes, I know that's an absurd amount of market cap to be added to

652
00:34:32,334 --> 00:34:37,164
Bitcoin, but there's an absurd amount of demand coming and there's an absurd amount

653
00:34:37,274 --> 00:34:39,884
of sats flowing out of exchanges, right?

654
00:34:39,914 --> 00:34:40,624
So it's like you have.

655
00:34:41,584 --> 00:34:44,224
An exponential rising amount of capital with an exponentially

656
00:34:44,224 --> 00:34:45,234
decreasing amount of sats.

657
00:34:45,234 --> 00:34:48,790
It's so my point being that right now, at the time of recording,

658
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,190
every 90, 96 seconds, one Bitcoin's added to the network, right?

659
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:58,240
But with the last Bitcoin taking 35 years, that's a third of a century.

660
00:34:58,575 --> 00:34:58,945
Right?

661
00:34:59,175 --> 00:35:03,735
That's globally, and that's a third of a century, far more

662
00:35:03,735 --> 00:35:04,725
prosperous than ours, right?

663
00:35:04,725 --> 00:35:07,695
So right now we're recording this, you know, before 2025.

664
00:35:08,225 --> 00:35:11,895
So we have well over three quarters of the 21st century to go and

665
00:35:11,975 --> 00:35:13,585
all the technological progress.

666
00:35:14,045 --> 00:35:16,685
And then you have the early 2020 second century, right?

667
00:35:16,685 --> 00:35:19,125
With all that progress, innovation or whatever is going to happen then,

668
00:35:19,125 --> 00:35:20,525
you know, we can't even fathom yet.

669
00:35:20,784 --> 00:35:24,925
my point being that while we get caught up in, oh, Bitcoin to a million dollars,

670
00:35:24,945 --> 00:35:27,455
Bitcoin to a hundred million dollars, Bitcoin to a trillion dollars, right?

671
00:35:27,985 --> 00:35:31,435
Reality is that if we assume Bitcoin is going to survive for a long period

672
00:35:31,435 --> 00:35:37,445
of time, then we should assume that eventually that all of this global Bitcoin

673
00:35:37,445 --> 00:35:40,365
mining, that all of these politicians, all these governments, all of these, you

674
00:35:40,365 --> 00:35:44,095
know, individuals, people, companies, everyday folks, you know, independent

675
00:35:44,105 --> 00:35:45,585
node runners, you know, all these people.

676
00:35:45,985 --> 00:35:50,365
are going to be chasing that last one Bitcoin in the early

677
00:35:50,365 --> 00:35:51,955
20, 22nd century, right?

678
00:35:51,955 --> 00:35:57,185
Like there could be, you know, maybe 7, 8, 9 billion people on Bitcoin

679
00:35:57,185 --> 00:35:59,055
network in a hundred years, right?

680
00:35:59,055 --> 00:36:03,005
You know, who knows, I'm just guessing, but there can be billions of people for,

681
00:36:03,373 --> 00:36:07,392
basically an entire working career, AKA a third of a century former prosperous

682
00:36:07,392 --> 00:36:08,832
than ours chasing one Bitcoin, right?

683
00:36:08,832 --> 00:36:09,292
So it's like.

684
00:36:09,709 --> 00:36:13,089
For me, way more than the, Oh, I'll get to one Bitcoin because it's a red number.

685
00:36:13,099 --> 00:36:15,849
It's like, get to one Bitcoin because the last one's going to take 35 years.

686
00:36:16,329 --> 00:36:20,929
So even if it takes you 35 years to get one Bitcoin, like just go for it because

687
00:36:21,249 --> 00:36:24,919
you're, you know, the kids born, you know, your grandkids, you know, they won't,

688
00:36:25,379 --> 00:36:26,679
they won't be able to get one Bitcoin.

689
00:36:26,679 --> 00:36:27,329
There's no way.

690
00:36:27,339 --> 00:36:32,649
You're not going to single handedly have, uh, you know, a third of a century's, uh,

691
00:36:32,699 --> 00:36:34,329
you know, mining rewards yourself, right?

692
00:36:34,329 --> 00:36:35,869
It's just not going to be possible or feasible.

693
00:36:35,889 --> 00:36:36,159
Right.

694
00:36:36,209 --> 00:36:39,739
So, um, and then of course, once that finishes in 2140.

695
00:36:40,194 --> 00:36:45,718
Then, the only direction is down as far as balances, right?

696
00:36:45,758 --> 00:36:47,138
Globally as coins get lost.

697
00:36:47,642 --> 00:36:47,912
Yeah.

698
00:36:47,917 --> 00:36:50,432
And this is also why Bitcoin is not gold.

699
00:36:50,437 --> 00:36:51,302
2.0.

700
00:36:51,422 --> 00:36:53,522
It's so different from gold.

701
00:36:53,852 --> 00:36:58,342
Like, so imagine it's a pretty good deal to be able to buy,

702
00:36:58,402 --> 00:37:01,012
uh, say you buy one unit of.

703
00:37:01,817 --> 00:37:09,117
Uh, worth of the world's total gold mining for 35 years, starting the year

704
00:37:09,117 --> 00:37:17,217
two thousand and one hundred, uh, and ten, one hundred and five, exactly.

705
00:37:17,597 --> 00:37:21,798
So the year two, one, zero, five, the equivalent of all the gold mining in

706
00:37:21,798 --> 00:37:25,578
the world for 35 years, starting at that point, that is what won Bitcoin.

707
00:37:26,445 --> 00:37:30,973
is the equivalent of now, which is also weird because it's, it's

708
00:37:31,103 --> 00:37:33,113
not even that it's bullish enough.

709
00:37:33,483 --> 00:37:34,243
And I'll tell you why.

710
00:37:34,243 --> 00:37:40,284
It's because, gold was a good, uh, store of value and a good, like, money because

711
00:37:40,314 --> 00:37:46,457
it, as technologies moved forward and, and things became cheaper and cheaper, gold

712
00:37:46,457 --> 00:37:48,227
mining became more and more efficient.

713
00:37:48,237 --> 00:37:51,337
So more gold was found per time unit.

714
00:37:51,657 --> 00:37:52,517
So the prices.

715
00:37:52,946 --> 00:37:54,406
we're relatively stable.

716
00:37:55,029 --> 00:38:00,409
this is not true for Bitcoin because as, as hashing technology gets better,

717
00:38:00,489 --> 00:38:02,759
the Bitcoins don't get found faster.

718
00:38:02,949 --> 00:38:04,629
Like that, that doesn't happen.

719
00:38:04,629 --> 00:38:06,809
That's why we have the difficulty adjustment algorithm.

720
00:38:07,399 --> 00:38:08,649
So it's even better than that.

721
00:38:09,389 --> 00:38:15,099
It's even better than owning the gold because, uh, I mean, it's, it's so

722
00:38:15,099 --> 00:38:19,439
weird and so hard to wrap your head around, but it's definitely not gold 2.

723
00:38:19,439 --> 00:38:19,988
0.

724
00:38:19,989 --> 00:38:20,469
Um.

725
00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:28,359
By the way, isn't it this next halving that Bitcoin's inflation is actually lower

726
00:38:28,359 --> 00:38:30,879
than gold, or its stock to flow ratio,

727
00:38:31,057 --> 00:38:31,247
Yeah.

728
00:38:31,247 --> 00:38:31,417
Yeah.

729
00:38:31,417 --> 00:38:32,887
It's, it's stock to flow ratio.

730
00:38:32,887 --> 00:38:35,537
You know, I, I would say it's less of Bitcoin inflation.

731
00:38:35,537 --> 00:38:38,927
We're like Bitcoin issuance, but, um, but yeah, yeah, the,

732
00:38:38,957 --> 00:38:42,647
the stock to flow officially goes under gold, the cycle, right?

733
00:38:42,647 --> 00:38:44,517
You know, I, I think, you know,

734
00:38:44,917 --> 00:38:45,907
and then forever?

735
00:38:46,617 --> 00:38:49,667
yeah, forever and definitely to zero.

736
00:38:49,668 --> 00:38:49,946
Yeah.

737
00:38:50,052 --> 00:38:50,332
Yeah.

738
00:38:50,768 --> 00:38:53,380
I think most people will look back, at this conversation, right?

739
00:38:53,390 --> 00:38:57,480
You see people today look at us, you know, normal people look at us Bitcoiners

740
00:38:57,500 --> 00:38:58,810
and they say, Oh, they're crazy.

741
00:38:58,820 --> 00:39:00,130
They're comparing Bitcoin to gold.

742
00:39:00,130 --> 00:39:00,780
That's so stupid.

743
00:39:00,780 --> 00:39:01,540
That's so idiotic.

744
00:39:01,570 --> 00:39:02,980
Gold's real money, blah, blah, blah.

745
00:39:03,860 --> 00:39:06,370
You know, so everyone hates the Bitcoin to gold metaphor

746
00:39:06,370 --> 00:39:07,560
today for that reason, right?

747
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:08,410
The thing is too optimistic.

748
00:39:09,140 --> 00:39:09,450
But

749
00:39:09,610 --> 00:39:10,610
and it's the opposite.

750
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,480
yeah, but into your point, it's the opposite.

751
00:39:12,500 --> 00:39:16,420
Like we're in this 20 to 30 year window where people think the Bitcoin to gold

752
00:39:16,420 --> 00:39:20,980
metaphor is stupid because gold is obviously better, but then that's going to

753
00:39:20,990 --> 00:39:26,520
be dwarfed by the many, many decades, if not centuries, you know, from the 2040s,

754
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,440
2050s onwards, where people were like, why are you comparing gold to Bitcoin?

755
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:30,510
They're entirely different, right?

756
00:39:30,510 --> 00:39:33,340
It's the same, it's the same thing with the horse and locomotive, right?

757
00:39:33,340 --> 00:39:33,690
It's like.

758
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:37,190
If you were to just be plopped in the middle of our current time in

759
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:41,200
the 21st century, why would you compare the horse and locomotive?

760
00:39:41,230 --> 00:39:46,380
It's like, okay, like, that seems no different than comparing a car to a goat.

761
00:39:46,990 --> 00:39:49,190
I mean, it's like, it makes no logical sense if you don't have

762
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:50,750
the historical context, right?

763
00:39:50,780 --> 00:39:53,030
Like, the metaphor makes no sense.

764
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:58,282
It's the iron horse, but, you know, it's just, It's an analogy for ancient people

765
00:39:58,302 --> 00:39:59,872
trying to get up to the modern era, right?

766
00:40:00,112 --> 00:40:05,022
Like the horse locomotive metaphor makes sense in the 1820s, 50s,

767
00:40:05,142 --> 00:40:07,092
90s, early 1900s even, maybe.

768
00:40:07,532 --> 00:40:08,592
Now it doesn't make any sense, right?

769
00:40:08,592 --> 00:40:09,492
It's gonna be the same thing with Bitcoin.

770
00:40:09,502 --> 00:40:13,712
Like the gold Bitcoin metaphor is not gonna make sense to my grandkids, and it's

771
00:40:13,712 --> 00:40:17,712
not, it doesn't make sense to our peers today, but for two very different reasons.

772
00:40:18,062 --> 00:40:21,412
And I think that's funny to think about and appreciate is that we're

773
00:40:21,412 --> 00:40:25,737
in this narrow window where The metaphor kind of works, right?

774
00:40:25,737 --> 00:40:29,117
We can actually compare Bitcoin stock to flow to gold and people,

775
00:40:29,327 --> 00:40:33,277
some people get what we're saying, but the majority now don't like it.

776
00:40:33,287 --> 00:40:34,727
The majority of the future don't like it, but.

777
00:40:35,302 --> 00:40:38,942
You know, hey, for those with ears, you know, hopefully they'll listen.

778
00:40:39,382 --> 00:40:39,662
So

779
00:40:39,767 --> 00:40:43,800
The thing I don't like about the horse to, uh, to, uh, locomotive

780
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:49,230
metaphor is that it's The horse and the locomotive are somewhat too similar.

781
00:40:49,660 --> 00:40:53,910
The locomotive is better than the horse, it's faster, and takes more people.

782
00:40:54,270 --> 00:40:57,890
But it's not orders of magnitude faster, you know what I mean?

783
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:03,630
So, it's more like if you compare communications technologies, you would

784
00:41:03,630 --> 00:41:06,310
compare RuneStone to TikTok or something.

785
00:41:06,650 --> 00:41:08,370
Like, that's That's more

786
00:41:09,225 --> 00:41:09,555
that's more

787
00:41:09,820 --> 00:41:16,260
than how much, yeah, yeah, so, or, uh, a skateboard to the, the Starship

788
00:41:16,260 --> 00:41:19,920
Enterprise or something, like, uh, uh,

789
00:41:19,985 --> 00:41:20,445
You're right.

790
00:41:20,475 --> 00:41:20,965
You're right.

791
00:41:21,150 --> 00:41:22,060
it's so much more,

792
00:41:23,035 --> 00:41:23,275
Yeah.

793
00:41:23,275 --> 00:41:28,275
I don't have the numbers off, you know, I don't have the numbers to back this

794
00:41:28,275 --> 00:41:32,715
up, but I, I would easily guess that the locomotive makes transport orders

795
00:41:32,715 --> 00:41:35,665
of magnitude more cost efficient, but you're, you know, as far as speed and all

796
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,445
yeah, it, yeah, it does, yeah.

797
00:41:37,825 --> 00:41:40,335
But the reason I like that metaphor though is less so.

798
00:41:40,665 --> 00:41:42,135
You know, this is the beauty of metaphors, right?

799
00:41:42,175 --> 00:41:43,985
All models are wrong, but some are useful.

800
00:41:43,995 --> 00:41:45,475
All metaphors are wrong, but some are useful.

801
00:41:45,495 --> 00:41:49,915
But the reason I like that metaphor, the reason I always bring it up is because we

802
00:41:49,915 --> 00:41:52,045
often forget how recent that was, right?

803
00:41:52,045 --> 00:41:54,815
Like that was barely 200 years ago.

804
00:41:55,185 --> 00:41:58,925
I mean, that's 200 years is nothing on the grand scheme of history.

805
00:41:59,485 --> 00:42:02,625
And, you know, that's like three or four, maybe five

806
00:42:02,625 --> 00:42:04,235
generations ago for most people.

807
00:42:04,715 --> 00:42:08,365
I mean, you know, like, like my, my grandmother's in her nineties and, you

808
00:42:08,365 --> 00:42:10,765
know, her mom was in the wagon days.

809
00:42:10,945 --> 00:42:11,215
Right.

810
00:42:11,245 --> 00:42:15,185
And like, she remembers stories of her mom telling, you know, from, from that.

811
00:42:15,215 --> 00:42:15,415
Right.

812
00:42:15,455 --> 00:42:16,785
I mean, cause she was old and her mom had her late.

813
00:42:16,785 --> 00:42:21,225
You know, it's just, it's incredible to think about, but my family being

814
00:42:21,305 --> 00:42:24,895
an instance and maybe some people watching, you know, they know extended

815
00:42:24,895 --> 00:42:27,225
family, whatever, but it's like, there are people still alive that.

816
00:42:28,060 --> 00:42:31,985
Had a direct personal relationship with people alive at the time of, you know.

817
00:42:32,605 --> 00:42:35,365
Napoleon and, and, and, and, you know, the pre horse pre look,

818
00:42:35,435 --> 00:42:37,475
uh, pre, um, automobile era.

819
00:42:37,495 --> 00:42:42,085
Like it's just, it's so recent and yet there's been so much technological change.

820
00:42:42,095 --> 00:42:43,425
We just forget that's the case.

821
00:42:43,965 --> 00:42:44,285
Right.

822
00:42:44,325 --> 00:42:49,205
And to me, that's why talking about Bitcoin is so important is that, yes,

823
00:42:49,205 --> 00:42:51,855
it's about hopefully everyone watching this is buying Bitcoin, adopting

824
00:42:51,875 --> 00:42:57,595
Bitcoin, but it's also about what's the next adoption curve behind Bitcoin.

825
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,100
Next, after Bitcoin, because whatever that adoption curve is, in

826
00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:06,680
my guess, I mean, I think probably anyone that's looking at technology

827
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:07,710
from that futuristic perspective.

828
00:43:08,065 --> 00:43:08,615
perspective.

829
00:43:09,355 --> 00:43:11,485
The Bitcoin adoption curve is much faster than the internet.

830
00:43:12,015 --> 00:43:14,925
And whatever's up to Bitcoin, I think is going to be much faster than

831
00:43:14,925 --> 00:43:16,895
the Bitcoin adoption curve, right?

832
00:43:17,195 --> 00:43:20,525
Now that gets into cloud or custody multi sig, which is a big part of why

833
00:43:20,535 --> 00:43:23,485
I joined Bitcoin adviser, you know, kind of tying that back into the

834
00:43:23,485 --> 00:43:27,065
conversation is, you know, I think that's an adoption curve way faster

835
00:43:27,065 --> 00:43:28,915
than what anyone is expecting, right?

836
00:43:28,945 --> 00:43:32,395
You know, basically it's custody innovation within the

837
00:43:32,395 --> 00:43:33,505
adoption curve of Bitcoin.

838
00:43:33,785 --> 00:43:35,955
So meaning it's like an even more hyperbolic.

839
00:43:36,565 --> 00:43:37,505
Adoption curve, right?

840
00:43:37,535 --> 00:43:42,125
But again, that's the general point that for people looking to buy Bitcoin and

841
00:43:42,125 --> 00:43:45,685
then adjust to the technology of the future is that that's the trade off.

842
00:43:45,685 --> 00:43:50,080
The trade off for Endless prosperity flowing at us into larger orders

843
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,460
of magnitude is that the adoption curves are going to get steeper.

844
00:43:53,490 --> 00:43:57,106
Things are going to get outdated much faster and, keeping up with technology

845
00:43:57,106 --> 00:43:58,306
is a much more urgent thing, right?

846
00:43:58,306 --> 00:43:59,286
I mean, everything's a trade off.

847
00:43:59,286 --> 00:44:02,977
That's the trade off of having faster innovation forever is that

848
00:44:02,997 --> 00:44:04,687
you have faster innovation forever.

849
00:44:05,067 --> 00:44:08,947
So, um, anyway, that's why I like that metaphor of the locomotive.

850
00:44:10,092 --> 00:44:14,062
back to this, like, the time perspective, uh, this was in the

851
00:44:14,062 --> 00:44:20,082
news just last week about that the President John Tyler, born in 1790,

852
00:44:20,452 --> 00:44:23,272
has a grandson who's still alive today.

853
00:44:24,237 --> 00:44:24,577
Correct!

854
00:44:24,632 --> 00:44:25,222
there's a person

855
00:44:26,137 --> 00:44:26,697
Grandson!

856
00:44:27,927 --> 00:44:29,777
Yeah, so that's two generations away.

857
00:44:30,397 --> 00:44:33,207
So like, uh, the U.

858
00:44:33,207 --> 00:44:33,537
S.

859
00:44:33,607 --> 00:44:39,187
is just a handful of generations old, which is, which is so weird when you

860
00:44:39,207 --> 00:44:44,647
think about like the Santa Maria in Columbus, uh, sailing across the Atlantic

861
00:44:45,077 --> 00:44:49,683
into the vast nothingness, you know, and hoping to find India and stuff.

862
00:44:49,683 --> 00:44:55,387
Uh, That's just a handful of generations, so try to, try to predict the future

863
00:44:55,387 --> 00:44:59,387
five generations from now, like, it's impossible, especially since

864
00:44:59,387 --> 00:45:05,411
everything goes exponentially faster, every year, so, so it's, it's just, uh,

865
00:45:05,511 --> 00:45:07,881
yeah, crazy when you think about it.

866
00:45:08,191 --> 00:45:10,831
And how, how close in time these things are.

867
00:45:11,371 --> 00:45:14,791
And I think the transitioning from, you know, horses to cars,

868
00:45:14,831 --> 00:45:16,621
that was like a decade or two.

869
00:45:16,801 --> 00:45:18,191
That's, that's all the time it took.

870
00:45:18,231 --> 00:45:21,961
And that's way, way, way before internets or even fucking

871
00:45:21,961 --> 00:45:24,061
telephones, proper telephones.

872
00:45:25,161 --> 00:45:29,311
so, yeah, I imagine that, uh, things can happen very fast.

873
00:45:29,372 --> 00:45:32,042
Which has positive and negative consequences, right?

874
00:45:32,042 --> 00:45:36,812
You know, at New Year's, 2024 New Year's, there was a famous video of the

875
00:45:36,842 --> 00:45:40,832
Arc de Triomphe at the, you know, in Paris of everyone holding up their cell

876
00:45:40,832 --> 00:45:42,222
phone recording the fireworks, right?

877
00:45:42,222 --> 00:45:45,142
Many of you probably watching early 2024 have seen this video, it kind of went

878
00:45:45,192 --> 00:45:45,862
yeah, yeah, I saw that.

879
00:45:46,072 --> 00:45:48,312
Yeah,

880
00:45:48,657 --> 00:45:52,317
you know, this whole, you know, going back to my, the first thread I ever

881
00:45:52,317 --> 00:45:57,817
wrote, um, on, on, online, basically an article, you know, Twitter thread, uh,

882
00:45:57,967 --> 00:46:00,677
was about this idea that we have less to come with the future than the past, right?

883
00:46:00,677 --> 00:46:01,507
It's like that, Yeah.

884
00:46:02,167 --> 00:46:05,447
You know, that structure in Paris has been there for, you know, hundreds of

885
00:46:05,447 --> 00:46:10,707
years, and, you know, people, you know, just would walk around it never with

886
00:46:10,707 --> 00:46:12,477
a screen to their face for centuries.

887
00:46:12,507 --> 00:46:15,507
And now all of a sudden, here we are, last 10 years, we've had the smartphone

888
00:46:15,537 --> 00:46:21,157
revolution, and, you know, now everyone just holds up a little blue screen, right?

889
00:46:21,157 --> 00:46:25,207
And so it's, all these adoption curves are going to have a, I

890
00:46:25,217 --> 00:46:28,707
think, are going to have a lot of, A lot of positive implications,

891
00:46:29,127 --> 00:46:30,587
a lot of negative externalities.

892
00:46:30,657 --> 00:46:33,857
Hopefully the positive ones outweigh the negative ones, you know, 10 to 1.

893
00:46:34,527 --> 00:46:40,647
But, you know, I think people, I think the heart of Bitcoiners is to be thinking

894
00:46:40,647 --> 00:46:43,277
with that forward mindset because we know we can't predict it, right?

895
00:46:43,317 --> 00:46:47,987
And that's why Bitcoin number go up is the only futurist quote unquote thing

896
00:46:47,987 --> 00:46:53,732
I I like to predict, quote unquote predict, because it's like whatever

897
00:46:53,782 --> 00:46:57,382
said innovation is like, you know, I have no idea, you have no idea, everyone

898
00:46:57,382 --> 00:46:58,772
watching, you know, we have no clue.

899
00:46:59,062 --> 00:47:03,182
But whatever that innovation is, if Bitcoin survives, and it has

900
00:47:03,182 --> 00:47:06,982
the most Lendi effect, you know, it's Going to be what we denominate

901
00:47:07,002 --> 00:47:08,312
those innovations in, right?

902
00:47:08,362 --> 00:47:11,662
So it's kind of like the meme, the bell adoption curve, right?

903
00:47:11,662 --> 00:47:15,482
Where the person over here, the quote unquote low IQ is

904
00:47:15,662 --> 00:47:16,962
Bitcoin number go up forever.

905
00:47:17,642 --> 00:47:17,972
Yeah.

906
00:47:18,022 --> 00:47:18,352
Yeah.

907
00:47:19,182 --> 00:47:19,502
The 80 IQ.

908
00:47:20,572 --> 00:47:24,752
And then over here that, you know, whatever the 150 IQ or the 200 IQ guy

909
00:47:25,012 --> 00:47:29,482
is like number go up forever because it's like, whatever the innovation is.

910
00:47:30,152 --> 00:47:32,382
It's foolish to predict what the innovation is going to be.

911
00:47:32,412 --> 00:47:36,822
You know, you can't predict internet when, you know, in 1903, when the

912
00:47:36,822 --> 00:47:38,112
Wright Brothers first take off, right?

913
00:47:38,132 --> 00:47:39,112
It's like, you can't do it.

914
00:47:39,642 --> 00:47:44,432
Um, or probably a better example is like, okay, 1903, we met the airplane.

915
00:47:44,432 --> 00:47:50,962
1945, we drop bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki from a B 52, right?

916
00:47:51,617 --> 00:47:55,287
And then you have landing on the moon in the 60s and now

917
00:47:55,287 --> 00:47:58,359
you have, other space stuff.

918
00:47:58,359 --> 00:48:00,339
I mean, it's just like, that's crazy, you know?

919
00:48:00,339 --> 00:48:03,319
And so I think it's nonsensical to guess what the innovation is going to

920
00:48:03,319 --> 00:48:07,189
be, but If that innovation is going to occur, and if Bitcoin survives, then

921
00:48:07,189 --> 00:48:09,539
Bitcoin is going to denominate it, right?

922
00:48:11,084 --> 00:48:12,344
It should have been the other way around.

923
00:48:12,354 --> 00:48:18,144
They should have faked the atomic bombs and actually landed on the moon.

924
00:48:18,144 --> 00:48:19,834
That would have been better for the world, I think.

925
00:48:20,644 --> 00:48:21,714
Yeah, yeah.

926
00:48:21,794 --> 00:48:23,624
I mean, if you're going to choose faking one of them,

927
00:48:23,644 --> 00:48:24,594
you know, fake the war, right?

928
00:48:24,894 --> 00:48:27,679
But, you know Unfortunately, when the guns are out, you actually

929
00:48:27,679 --> 00:48:28,729
have to do the real thing, right?

930
00:48:28,729 --> 00:48:31,409
You can't, you can't fake it in war, otherwise your bluff will be called.

931
00:48:31,409 --> 00:48:33,199
Um,

932
00:48:33,304 --> 00:48:37,734
could just have some, some charming person go to, uh, go to Hiroshima and

933
00:48:37,734 --> 00:48:39,374
pay everyone to say they were bombed.

934
00:48:39,934 --> 00:48:42,064
Like, that would have been way better for everyone.

935
00:48:42,479 --> 00:48:43,159
maybe cheaper.

936
00:48:44,644 --> 00:48:45,434
Maybe cheaper.

937
00:48:45,614 --> 00:48:46,594
Uh, yeah.

938
00:48:47,488 --> 00:48:50,338
Like, like, really, like, like, nuclear fission and fusion.

939
00:48:50,508 --> 00:48:53,778
It's like, okay, we discovered that, now we have nuclear energy,

940
00:48:54,018 --> 00:48:54,898
and now we have a nuclear bomb.

941
00:48:54,898 --> 00:48:56,698
It's like, same thing with smartphones.

942
00:48:56,698 --> 00:48:59,448
It's like, we could record a podcast anywhere in the world with these

943
00:48:59,448 --> 00:49:04,008
devices, or we could Missed the moment being perpetually plugged in, right?

944
00:49:04,338 --> 00:49:05,808
And these adoption curves are going to get faster.

945
00:49:05,908 --> 00:49:06,298
It's like,

946
00:49:06,663 --> 00:49:10,723
Yeah, about missing the moment though, what it does is that it gives us an

947
00:49:10,733 --> 00:49:15,313
accurate, very, to play the devil's advocate there, it gives the Arc

948
00:49:15,343 --> 00:49:21,133
de Triomphe, uh, it gives humanity a memory of what that looked like,

949
00:49:21,303 --> 00:49:23,683
exactly, and from all different angles.

950
00:49:23,838 --> 00:49:28,738
Like, it's very easy to reconstruct that thing, should it ever be

951
00:49:28,738 --> 00:49:32,178
bombed in the future, now that we have such a good record of it.

952
00:49:32,499 --> 00:49:33,389
yeah, precisely.

953
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:36,419
It's not, yeah, it's not entirely negative.

954
00:49:36,429 --> 00:49:39,099
You know, I guess that's just kind of the nuance I'm trying to say

955
00:49:39,099 --> 00:49:40,249
is that it's like a mix of both.

956
00:49:40,249 --> 00:49:40,519
Right.

957
00:49:40,768 --> 00:49:46,758
The angle here that I have on, like, I think, like, technologies and scientific

958
00:49:46,758 --> 00:49:53,218
breakthroughs and stuff, they're never Good or bad in their, in themselves, what

959
00:49:53,218 --> 00:49:58,758
makes them bad is when the incentives are aligned, misaligned, so that psychopaths

960
00:49:58,758 --> 00:50:01,438
get to use their, what they're used for.

961
00:50:02,358 --> 00:50:05,778
You know, which, which the atomic bomb is a perfect example of.

962
00:50:05,888 --> 00:50:08,808
I mean, that technology is very powerful, and it could have been used

963
00:50:08,828 --> 00:50:12,508
for good, instead it would have been used for blowing innocent people up.

964
00:50:12,658 --> 00:50:17,548
And, some not so innocent, but still, blowing way too many people up.

965
00:50:18,062 --> 00:50:22,322
and that's the thing, it's back to praxeology again, and the resources

966
00:50:22,362 --> 00:50:29,462
being misallocated because of theft, uh, that's what creates the bad incentives,

967
00:50:29,572 --> 00:50:35,232
and that's why, you know, science and technology gets a bad name, because it

968
00:50:35,562 --> 00:50:37,612
ends up in the hands of the wrong people.

969
00:50:37,962 --> 00:50:42,402
So, that's what we have to fix, and that's what Bitcoin fixes in my mind, and

970
00:50:42,772 --> 00:50:45,752
that's why I'm so optimistic about it.

971
00:50:46,273 --> 00:50:47,963
yeah, it's a great, it's a great perspective.

972
00:50:47,993 --> 00:50:51,393
You know, that's, that's why Bitcoin survives is because as long as

973
00:50:51,393 --> 00:50:55,083
it remains outside the control of human beings, where we can't.

974
00:50:55,948 --> 00:51:01,658
Distort, manipulate, or debase its supply, um, you know, then as long as that happens

975
00:51:01,728 --> 00:51:05,668
to where it can't, then inherently it can't fall into good hands, quote unquote,

976
00:51:05,988 --> 00:51:10,008
and it can't fall into bad hands, because You know, then there's no ability, right?

977
00:51:10,008 --> 00:51:15,638
So, I mean, like, for me, that's, that's the Achilles heel of a Bitcoin, you

978
00:51:15,638 --> 00:51:18,938
know, I mean, if Bitcoin's a Trojan horse, I guess, you know, that's the

979
00:51:19,288 --> 00:51:23,138
two bedforce of the same thing, but you know, like, if, if the Achilles

980
00:51:23,138 --> 00:51:25,928
heel, if there's an Achilles heel for Bitcoin, to me, that's it, right?

981
00:51:25,938 --> 00:51:29,058
It's, it's good people, quote unquote, or any people, you know.

982
00:51:29,448 --> 00:51:33,448
Get in control of it, because if good people can control Bitcoin, or

983
00:51:33,448 --> 00:51:37,508
let's say, you know, well intentioned people could control Bitcoin, then

984
00:51:37,558 --> 00:51:42,088
inherently, people with bad incentives or misaligned incentives inherently

985
00:51:42,088 --> 00:51:43,168
will also be able to control it.

986
00:51:43,518 --> 00:51:43,798
Right?

987
00:51:43,828 --> 00:51:48,468
So, you know, that's, to me, that's, that's why the case for Bitcoin as

988
00:51:48,508 --> 00:51:50,178
an apolitical money is so important.

989
00:51:50,238 --> 00:51:53,218
You know, it has to be out of control of everyone to ensure it's out

990
00:51:53,248 --> 00:51:55,438
of control of, of the bad actors.

991
00:51:55,858 --> 00:51:56,988
Of anyone, yeah.

992
00:51:58,478 --> 00:52:01,748
Yeah, it has to be in control of everyone in order for it to prevent

993
00:52:01,748 --> 00:52:04,928
it to be controlled by someone.

994
00:52:04,928 --> 00:52:06,327
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995
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996
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997
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998
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999
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1000
00:52:21,704 --> 00:52:24,023
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1001
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1002
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1003
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1004
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1005
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1006
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1007
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1008
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1009
00:52:46,945 --> 00:52:50,327
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1010
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1011
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1012
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1013
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1014
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1015
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1016
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1017
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1018
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1019
00:53:11,523 --> 00:53:15,673
hey, so, so, Luke, I just wanted to check as we started going down the

1020
00:53:15,673 --> 00:53:17,573
rabbit holes here pretty quickly.

1021
00:53:17,573 --> 00:53:21,423
Was there anything else that you wanted to say about the Bitcoin

1022
00:53:21,423 --> 00:53:22,593
adviser stuff you have going on?

1023
00:53:22,977 --> 00:53:23,607
Yeah, sure.

1024
00:53:23,617 --> 00:53:27,855
Well, you know, I, the, with, it actually ties in quite nicely what

1025
00:53:27,855 --> 00:53:30,855
we were just talking about, you know, I, I think the whole, we have less in

1026
00:53:31,015 --> 00:53:34,135
common with the future and the past idea, I think is true here too, right?

1027
00:53:34,135 --> 00:53:37,835
I think even within Bitcoin, we have less in common with the near future

1028
00:53:37,895 --> 00:53:41,305
of Bitcoin than the quote unquote distant past of Bitcoin, right?

1029
00:53:41,335 --> 00:53:42,965
And then that future probably is less common with that

1030
00:53:42,965 --> 00:53:44,005
future and that future, right?

1031
00:53:44,055 --> 00:53:44,385
So, Cool.

1032
00:53:44,955 --> 00:53:47,375
You know, if we look at Bitcoin's history, Bitcoin's 15 years old

1033
00:53:47,375 --> 00:53:49,025
now, um, at the time of recording.

1034
00:53:49,475 --> 00:53:54,485
And if we look at Bitcoin's history, the vast majority of Bitcoin's time has

1035
00:53:54,505 --> 00:53:57,225
been like single SIG adoption, right?

1036
00:53:57,225 --> 00:54:00,765
It's people having, you know, one set of 12 words, 24 words

1037
00:54:00,765 --> 00:54:01,755
to back their Bitcoin, right?

1038
00:54:02,315 --> 00:54:06,495
I, I genuinely think that, you know, the next Wave, a Bitcoin adoption is

1039
00:54:06,505 --> 00:54:10,085
primarily going to be multi sig and specifically clouder custom multi sig.

1040
00:54:10,465 --> 00:54:13,615
Uh, you know, hopefully people have zero single point of failures in those setups.

1041
00:54:14,185 --> 00:54:16,845
Um, and then I think the wave after that is, you know, the layer two

1042
00:54:16,855 --> 00:54:20,755
mass adoption, um, you know, the daily payments, you know, those kinds

1043
00:54:20,755 --> 00:54:22,285
of things for, for people, right.

1044
00:54:22,295 --> 00:54:26,345
You know, because not everyone's going to be able to afford layer one transactions.

1045
00:54:26,505 --> 00:54:29,195
That's an inherent reality and trade off.

1046
00:54:29,195 --> 00:54:29,465
Right.

1047
00:54:29,525 --> 00:54:30,495
And so I think.

1048
00:54:31,305 --> 00:54:34,145
I think the days we're in right now for Bitcoin, I think these are like

1049
00:54:34,215 --> 00:54:38,445
ancient days, like I think these are like, you know, ancient Roman days in

1050
00:54:38,705 --> 00:54:44,385
Bitcoin's story, you know, the old days where individuals would hold UTXOs,

1051
00:54:44,425 --> 00:54:50,700
like whole UTXOs, Individually, and they would quote unquote, so carelessly have

1052
00:54:50,700 --> 00:54:53,230
them on, you know, single CIGs, right?

1053
00:54:53,230 --> 00:54:56,380
Like, I think that's going to be a foreign idea in the future, right?

1054
00:54:56,380 --> 00:54:59,760
And it makes sense that we've already lost millions of more Bitcoin, or excuse me,

1055
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,920
we've already lost millions of Bitcoin, you know, four to 6 million or whatever,

1056
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:06,210
the last 10, 15 years, I think we'll probably lose at least another million

1057
00:55:06,210 --> 00:55:10,840
Bitcoin in the future, uh, you know, the mid future, um, not even the far

1058
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,080
future, but you know, I, I think that's.

1059
00:55:13,565 --> 00:55:17,375
Important people to keep in mind is that we're currently at, you know, one in a

1060
00:55:17,375 --> 00:55:19,635
thousand people adopting Bitcoin, right?

1061
00:55:19,645 --> 00:55:23,605
Maybe a 10th of a percent or so, maybe, maybe double that, you know,

1062
00:55:23,985 --> 00:55:28,185
I mean, if you really want to get bullish, um, but to get from today to

1063
00:55:28,185 --> 00:55:30,115
the next 50 X and Bitcoin adoption.

1064
00:55:31,105 --> 00:55:35,355
The vast majority of those people, I think, are going to opt for multisig, and

1065
00:55:35,515 --> 00:55:37,555
specifically ClatterCusty multisig, right?

1066
00:55:38,015 --> 00:55:43,205
If you're a company or a bank or, or, you know, a family trust, or, or,

1067
00:55:43,255 --> 00:55:46,190
you know, you have Bitcoin in your retirement accounts, like Really, your

1068
00:55:46,190 --> 00:55:52,210
only options are Bitcoin ETF or aka paper Bitcoin or real Bitcoin in some

1069
00:55:52,230 --> 00:55:54,620
sort of management solution like that.

1070
00:55:54,620 --> 00:55:54,850
Right?

1071
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:59,140
I mean, you can't have single sig Bitcoin in a Roth IRA.

1072
00:55:59,140 --> 00:56:02,440
You can't have single sig Bitcoin in a pension fund.

1073
00:56:02,450 --> 00:56:05,260
You can't have it on the nation state level, you know,

1074
00:56:05,260 --> 00:56:06,620
in that single sig, right?

1075
00:56:06,660 --> 00:56:10,320
I mean, and so obviously there's a lot of nuance and all those

1076
00:56:10,330 --> 00:56:11,850
things I'm not going to get into.

1077
00:56:11,850 --> 00:56:12,060
But.

1078
00:56:12,985 --> 00:56:13,335
You know what?

1079
00:56:13,365 --> 00:56:17,535
That's reality that people are going to want Bitcoin, you know, as much as, you

1080
00:56:17,535 --> 00:56:21,015
know, we may say, Oh, be independent and don't have Bitcoin in your

1081
00:56:21,015 --> 00:56:22,175
retirement accounts, blah, blah, blah.

1082
00:56:22,175 --> 00:56:24,335
You know, reality is that, you know, those millionaires, like I

1083
00:56:24,335 --> 00:56:27,245
mentioned earlier, they're going to want at least some of their Bitcoin

1084
00:56:27,245 --> 00:56:28,795
exposure to be within those accounts.

1085
00:56:28,945 --> 00:56:31,865
And those accounts and the integration of Bitcoin into traditional

1086
00:56:31,865 --> 00:56:37,265
finance inherently is going to be in various forms of multisig.

1087
00:56:37,545 --> 00:56:40,065
And again, specifically cloud or custody multisig.

1088
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:41,240
Arrangements.

1089
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:41,460
Right.

1090
00:56:41,460 --> 00:56:44,410
And so, you know, I say all this to emphasize, I think Bitcoiners need to

1091
00:56:44,410 --> 00:56:48,870
prepare for that because again, number one problem with Bitcoin is education.

1092
00:56:48,930 --> 00:56:50,150
Number two problem is custody.

1093
00:56:50,190 --> 00:56:50,450
Right.

1094
00:56:50,490 --> 00:56:51,100
And this is.

1095
00:56:51,540 --> 00:56:55,430
Perhaps the biggest change in Bitcoin custody, I think we've seen to date.

1096
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,000
There have been multiple big changes already, but I think

1097
00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:59,100
it's going to be very dramatic.

1098
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:02,720
And I think it's going to be a very steep adoption curve.

1099
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:06,450
Um, you know, and those are the three options for Bitcoin custody, right?

1100
00:57:06,450 --> 00:57:10,530
You have custodial Bitcoin, you know, paper Bitcoin, which again, I don't

1101
00:57:10,540 --> 00:57:15,400
think is Excusable besides extremely rare, you know, niche circumstances,

1102
00:57:15,530 --> 00:57:19,070
maybe, because again, I don't want to take, you know, like you were saying

1103
00:57:19,070 --> 00:57:20,430
earlier, you're a boat captain, right?

1104
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:21,830
It's like, I don't want to go out on the boat.

1105
00:57:22,330 --> 00:57:24,890
If I think, yeah, yeah, I think there's a 90 percent chance we'll

1106
00:57:24,890 --> 00:57:26,610
make it back to port today, right?

1107
00:57:26,610 --> 00:57:28,410
It's like, it makes no sense.

1108
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:29,020
Right.

1109
00:57:29,030 --> 00:57:30,190
It's like, okay, yeah, sure.

1110
00:57:30,190 --> 00:57:35,000
That's good odds, but I don't want my doctor to say, yeah, there's a 95 percent

1111
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,730
chance that you'll, you know, he'll make it through surgery, wake up again.

1112
00:57:37,730 --> 00:57:37,880
Right.

1113
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:43,290
And like with ETF, it's like people aren't people right now will tolerate Bitcoin

1114
00:57:43,290 --> 00:57:46,660
exchanges and paper Bitcoin because they don't understand Bitcoin and they don't

1115
00:57:46,660 --> 00:57:47,900
understand the bullishness of Bitcoin.

1116
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:52,440
They don't really people hold Bitcoin on exchanges because they think it's going to

1117
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:54,580
a hundred thousand, not a hundred million.

1118
00:57:55,150 --> 00:57:57,250
If people understood Bitcoin's going a hundred million, they would

1119
00:57:57,250 --> 00:57:58,490
never hold Bitcoin on exchange.

1120
00:57:58,540 --> 00:57:58,760
Right.

1121
00:57:58,760 --> 00:57:59,140
Because that's.

1122
00:57:59,795 --> 00:58:00,525
Illogical.

1123
00:58:00,835 --> 00:58:04,985
Uh, you know, so point is as people begin to realize this is an option,

1124
00:58:05,175 --> 00:58:08,975
they're going to realize self custody is the only way with single SIG.

1125
00:58:09,365 --> 00:58:11,525
Um, it has great advantages and has great uses.

1126
00:58:12,005 --> 00:58:13,535
Uh, there, there are trade offs though.

1127
00:58:13,605 --> 00:58:16,795
The same thing with multi SIG that's self directed and the same thing with,

1128
00:58:16,935 --> 00:58:18,675
uh, multi SIG and collateral custody.

1129
00:58:19,145 --> 00:58:23,645
Um, so really the Bitcoin adviser, what we help people do is we help people adopt.

1130
00:58:23,965 --> 00:58:30,235
Collateral custody multisig that, um, from a loss mitigation perspective, our goal

1131
00:58:30,235 --> 00:58:33,845
is to help people prevent losing their Bitcoin, you know, been in business eight

1132
00:58:33,845 --> 00:58:37,085
years, not a single Satoshi has been lost.

1133
00:58:37,215 --> 00:58:38,255
Peter's very proud of that.

1134
00:58:38,285 --> 00:58:39,615
Everyone on the team is very proud of that.

1135
00:58:39,685 --> 00:58:43,975
I mean, you know, and we deal with people, very experienced people that are very

1136
00:58:43,975 --> 00:58:48,005
new people with very large amounts of Bitcoin people with, you know, orders of

1137
00:58:48,005 --> 00:58:50,105
magnitude, less or more Bitcoin, right?

1138
00:58:50,105 --> 00:58:51,795
You know, we deal with all networks from all.

1139
00:58:52,100 --> 00:58:55,990
All demographics, all age ranges, you know, every, every, you know,

1140
00:58:55,990 --> 00:58:57,490
factor of diversity you can think of.

1141
00:58:57,550 --> 00:59:00,310
And, you know, despite all that, you know, not a single client has

1142
00:59:00,340 --> 00:59:02,380
ever lost a single sat due to death.

1143
00:59:02,895 --> 00:59:07,925
Due to, uh, someone stealing it from them, theft, uh, or lost keys, you

1144
00:59:07,925 --> 00:59:11,995
know, basically, we're guardrails, you know, we're, we're, uh, we're,

1145
00:59:12,015 --> 00:59:15,195
we're like a buffer for helping people have security adopting it.

1146
00:59:15,725 --> 00:59:19,990
And so, for the people that are still stuck on exchanges, they're like, Dang

1147
00:59:19,990 --> 00:59:24,690
it, I've still got my bitcoin on exchanges or I think I'm diversified because I have

1148
00:59:24,690 --> 00:59:26,470
my bitcoin on different exchanges, right?

1149
00:59:26,740 --> 00:59:30,570
It's like, you know, for those people, Bitcoin adviser is a massive value add

1150
00:59:30,570 --> 00:59:34,810
and a massive service because we can say, yes, we know you're still on exchanges.

1151
00:59:34,850 --> 00:59:35,630
Yes, it's okay.

1152
00:59:35,690 --> 00:59:36,220
No shame.

1153
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,250
No, we know you're not doing it because you're scared of losing your bitcoin.

1154
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:43,330
If you take those keys, you know, let us help you take those

1155
00:59:43,330 --> 00:59:46,470
keys, take self custody in a cloud custody format to where.

1156
00:59:46,810 --> 00:59:49,870
Even if you make a mistake, you know, we can work together and

1157
00:59:49,900 --> 00:59:52,790
make sure that you're taking things slow at your pace to where your

1158
00:59:52,790 --> 00:59:55,030
Bitcoin is, um, recoverable, right?

1159
00:59:55,050 --> 00:59:58,220
Basically helping people take that next step of, as you put

1160
00:59:58,220 --> 00:59:59,810
very well earlier, responsibility.

1161
01:00:00,260 --> 01:00:03,570
Um, you know, and then from the optimistic perspective too, ultimately,

1162
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:07,290
really the Bitcoin adviser, the main value add we're going to add to

1163
01:00:07,290 --> 01:00:09,810
people is not charging a small fee.

1164
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,310
on Bitcoin at 44, 000 US.

1165
01:00:13,350 --> 01:00:14,990
That's not the real business model for us.

1166
01:00:15,420 --> 01:00:19,890
The real goal is help people get through the chasm of the next five

1167
01:00:19,890 --> 01:00:25,770
years, keep Bitcoin secure, help them not lose their Bitcoin, not to improper

1168
01:00:25,770 --> 01:00:29,250
UTXO management, not to scams, not to theft, not to losing their own keys,

1169
01:00:29,250 --> 01:00:30,620
not to death, not for any reason.

1170
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:31,820
Don't lose a single sat.

1171
01:00:32,330 --> 01:00:35,390
You know, getting through this adoption phrase and then on the other side, when

1172
01:00:35,390 --> 01:00:40,350
Bitcoin has traditional finance adoption, institutional adoption, you know, the

1173
01:00:40,350 --> 01:00:44,580
real value add for us as a company, you know, where we're going to have by far the

1174
01:00:44,590 --> 01:00:48,420
biggest benefits and likewise where our clients can have the biggest benefits is

1175
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,130
in that future when people want to borrow.

1176
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:53,890
Right now it's controversial and right now I would not recommend it.

1177
01:00:54,495 --> 01:00:57,295
But eventually there are going to be a lot of people that do want to

1178
01:00:57,295 --> 01:00:58,965
borrow, um, against their Bitcoin.

1179
01:00:58,975 --> 01:01:00,575
They do want to borrow fiat against their Bitcoin.

1180
01:01:00,575 --> 01:01:03,345
You know, just a small percentage are going to borrow live off of it, right?

1181
01:01:03,735 --> 01:01:06,385
Or they're going to want to time lock their Bitcoin, or they're going to

1182
01:01:06,385 --> 01:01:09,957
want to have Bitcoin's collateral variance for, uh, a bunch of different

1183
01:01:09,987 --> 01:01:11,517
insurance possibilities, right?

1184
01:01:11,537 --> 01:01:14,777
So, you know, basically incorporating Bitcoin into that space.

1185
01:01:15,322 --> 01:01:19,042
It's going to take a very long time and, you know, it's not ready

1186
01:01:19,042 --> 01:01:23,032
yet, but eventually when that does happen, what are banks going to want?

1187
01:01:23,032 --> 01:01:23,872
What are people going to want?

1188
01:01:23,902 --> 01:01:25,342
What are companies going to want?

1189
01:01:25,792 --> 01:01:28,272
They're going to want to work with clients that have a cloud or custody

1190
01:01:28,272 --> 01:01:32,412
arrangement with the company on the planet that has the single

1191
01:01:32,412 --> 01:01:36,612
longest track record of providing cloud or custody multi sig options.

1192
01:01:36,892 --> 01:01:40,852
With the longest standing perfect record of a zero sat failure rate, right?

1193
01:01:40,882 --> 01:01:43,502
And so I'm very confident that is Bitcoin adviser.

1194
01:01:43,522 --> 01:01:46,332
You know, we've been a pioneer in the estate planning space, helping

1195
01:01:46,332 --> 01:01:49,272
people, you know, protect their Bitcoin for their kids and grandkids.

1196
01:01:49,732 --> 01:01:53,782
Um, you know, we've been a huge, uh, bringer of peace of mind for people

1197
01:01:53,782 --> 01:01:56,082
that are like, Hey, I've got X coins.

1198
01:01:56,432 --> 01:02:00,412
I've got a hundred percent allocation of single SIG and my wife or my

1199
01:02:00,412 --> 01:02:02,232
kid or my nephew or my whomever.

1200
01:02:02,527 --> 01:02:07,417
doesn't understand how to ask, like, if I die today, my loved ones probably

1201
01:02:07,417 --> 01:02:08,537
couldn't get my bitcoin, right?

1202
01:02:08,567 --> 01:02:13,067
And so they realized, you know, I probably should have a 50 percent exposure to

1203
01:02:13,127 --> 01:02:17,247
Clouder Custody Multisig with the Bitcoin adviser, where I know even if I die, I

1204
01:02:17,247 --> 01:02:21,307
lose the other half, or even if I screw it up and I lose you a half, or I lose

1205
01:02:21,307 --> 01:02:24,667
my memory, I am in a car accident, you know, like basically, yeah, I need it.

1206
01:02:25,327 --> 01:02:28,007
We're leaving the ancient world where we diversify between

1207
01:02:28,017 --> 01:02:29,767
assets to protect our wealth.

1208
01:02:30,087 --> 01:02:34,037
And I think we're entering the modern world where we don't

1209
01:02:34,037 --> 01:02:35,807
diversify in the asset we hold.

1210
01:02:35,987 --> 01:02:38,657
It's only Bitcoin, but we do diversify custody, right?

1211
01:02:38,657 --> 01:02:39,767
And so I think that's the future.

1212
01:02:39,767 --> 01:02:44,357
I think all of us watching this, all of us in this conversation, everyone

1213
01:02:44,357 --> 01:02:48,517
watching this, I think we're all You know, beginning to see that transition,

1214
01:02:48,567 --> 01:02:52,147
companies begin to enter the space, get into multisig, VASB accounting rules,

1215
01:02:52,157 --> 01:02:55,517
that's a big deal we didn't even get into, but both for number go up as well

1216
01:02:55,537 --> 01:02:58,397
as for custody and multisig options.

1217
01:02:58,437 --> 01:03:03,197
But, um, yeah, that's essentially what we do at Bitcoin adviser, and I really

1218
01:03:03,197 --> 01:03:04,557
love the work, it's really rewarding.

1219
01:03:05,857 --> 01:03:11,857
And frankly, the fastest way to buy more Bitcoin is to, in my

1220
01:03:11,857 --> 01:03:16,337
belief, the fastest way to buy more Bitcoin is to secure your custody.

1221
01:03:17,107 --> 01:03:19,647
I mean, again, this much risk is Bitcoin volatility.

1222
01:03:19,647 --> 01:03:21,657
This much risk is your custody.

1223
01:03:21,957 --> 01:03:27,737
Like it's a funny thing I see with clients at first they, you know, they book a call

1224
01:03:27,737 --> 01:03:30,217
with me or they consider it and they're like, yeah, you guys are expensive.

1225
01:03:30,217 --> 01:03:31,327
I don't know if I need it or whatever.

1226
01:03:31,647 --> 01:03:34,897
Then eventually they try it, they try it, and within like a matter of weeks or

1227
01:03:34,897 --> 01:03:39,447
months, they realize, Oh my goodness, you guys are cheap, because I just realized

1228
01:03:39,457 --> 01:03:41,227
that I can buy so much more Bitcoin.

1229
01:03:41,237 --> 01:03:46,217
I can actually justify a higher allocation because now like 80 percent

1230
01:03:46,217 --> 01:03:48,187
of my risk was just eliminated, right?

1231
01:03:48,187 --> 01:03:52,507
Because now, okay, if a criminal, you know, with a single SIG, you know, if

1232
01:03:52,507 --> 01:03:58,187
a criminal, you know, let's say I won Bitcoin, aka 35 years of the 22nd century,

1233
01:03:59,047 --> 01:04:01,197
on a single SIG device in my house.

1234
01:04:01,727 --> 01:04:06,407
If someone breaks into my house and takes those 12 words and then

1235
01:04:06,417 --> 01:04:07,727
leaves, I don't know they broke in.

1236
01:04:07,737 --> 01:04:10,447
Like, in 20 years, they could steal my Bitcoin, right?

1237
01:04:10,457 --> 01:04:15,597
And so, For, for our clients, when they have a greater peace of mind,

1238
01:04:15,597 --> 01:04:20,437
when it comes to the Bitcoin exposure, they end up on their own desire,

1239
01:04:20,527 --> 01:04:22,247
quickly increasing their allocation.

1240
01:04:22,357 --> 01:04:26,707
Um, especially if spouses or family members don't have the peace of

1241
01:04:26,707 --> 01:04:30,227
mind that the client itself does, you know, it gets families on the

1242
01:04:30,237 --> 01:04:31,817
same page, it brings peace of mind.

1243
01:04:32,187 --> 01:04:35,387
Um, you know, the spouse, the loved ones has the comfort knowing that,

1244
01:04:35,427 --> 01:04:38,647
okay, if something were to happen to him or something were to happen to

1245
01:04:38,847 --> 01:04:41,822
their coins, that You know, the kids you recovered or whatever, right.

1246
01:04:41,882 --> 01:04:45,102
That brings peace of mind, justifies how the Bitcoin allocations and, and

1247
01:04:45,172 --> 01:04:50,064
funny enough, the vast majority of our clients, like well over 90%, once they

1248
01:04:50,064 --> 01:04:54,514
join, like they begin increasing their stack because now they can justify it.

1249
01:04:54,514 --> 01:04:54,804
Right.

1250
01:04:54,854 --> 01:04:58,924
So, um, anyway, to the point with aligning incentives, that is what's

1251
01:04:58,934 --> 01:05:00,994
so rewarding with this job to me.

1252
01:05:00,994 --> 01:05:02,204
It doesn't feel like a job, right?

1253
01:05:02,204 --> 01:05:05,674
Like I'm working all day, every day on it, but it doesn't feel like it because

1254
01:05:05,754 --> 01:05:07,224
almost every person I'm on a call with.

1255
01:05:08,164 --> 01:05:11,244
That's a client that's just so grateful for the service because it gives them

1256
01:05:11,244 --> 01:05:14,604
peace of mind, helps them sleep better, better for their health, uh, they can

1257
01:05:14,604 --> 01:05:20,784
go out and instead of spending 500 hours trying to learn all the nuances with

1258
01:05:20,794 --> 01:05:25,464
self custody, they simply can have a voice along with them, guiding them,

1259
01:05:25,524 --> 01:05:28,604
answering any questions they want, you know, giving them as much information

1260
01:05:28,604 --> 01:05:33,174
as they can so the person can, if they want, verify it on their own, but point

1261
01:05:33,174 --> 01:05:34,924
being is that people want to learn.

1262
01:05:35,564 --> 01:05:36,954
The point of Bitcoin is optionality.

1263
01:05:37,014 --> 01:05:39,984
People want to have Bitcoin so they can do what they want with their life.

1264
01:05:40,514 --> 01:05:45,024
And so, for people having the option of knowing that, okay, good, I don't have

1265
01:05:45,024 --> 01:05:48,944
to choose between single SIG, where I think I'm going to screw it up, and

1266
01:05:49,404 --> 01:05:53,724
fake ETF, but I can do a collateral custody arrangement, you know, and

1267
01:05:53,724 --> 01:05:58,174
an estate plan for, you know, if I pass on, or, you know, if, if I'm not

1268
01:05:58,374 --> 01:06:00,569
capable of Managing these keys anymore.

1269
01:06:00,569 --> 01:06:01,949
So, um, yes.

1270
01:06:02,059 --> 01:06:03,349
So I said a lot there.

1271
01:06:03,399 --> 01:06:05,289
Um, it's very funny.

1272
01:06:05,309 --> 01:06:06,999
Most Bitcoiners don't understand this yet.

1273
01:06:07,059 --> 01:06:11,719
Uh, you know, I, I really am pounding the table on this very hard, uh, you know,

1274
01:06:11,959 --> 01:06:13,759
in my videos and everything I'm doing.

1275
01:06:14,379 --> 01:06:18,669
And yes, that is in my own self interest working at working at the company.

1276
01:06:18,709 --> 01:06:19,129
Right.

1277
01:06:19,459 --> 01:06:22,639
But I'm also doing it because I really want Bitcoin to start thinking about this.

1278
01:06:22,639 --> 01:06:22,839
Right.

1279
01:06:22,839 --> 01:06:26,639
Because again, we're at one in a thousand.

1280
01:06:26,879 --> 01:06:28,589
People adopting Bitcoin, you know, maybe 0.

1281
01:06:28,589 --> 01:06:29,609
1%.

1282
01:06:29,819 --> 01:06:34,539
Like, you know, maybe Bitcoiners today don't realize how important multisig

1283
01:06:34,539 --> 01:06:37,719
is, or again, Cloud or Kusty multisig.

1284
01:06:38,199 --> 01:06:43,709
But the majority of the next 100x adoption, the majority of that next 10%,

1285
01:06:44,269 --> 01:06:46,159
Are going, are going to want this, right?

1286
01:06:46,199 --> 01:06:49,699
And so, you know, the Bitcoin adviser has the longest track record.

1287
01:06:50,029 --> 01:06:52,679
Uh, we have a very impressive team, in my opinion, global

1288
01:06:52,689 --> 01:06:54,459
team, very decentralized team.

1289
01:06:54,549 --> 01:06:56,199
Um, we have a model.

1290
01:06:56,229 --> 01:07:00,969
I don't believe anyone is a rival of, on the planet because every other

1291
01:07:01,369 --> 01:07:03,129
multi sig offering is a product.

1292
01:07:03,179 --> 01:07:05,299
We are a service, fundamentally different.

1293
01:07:05,789 --> 01:07:09,949
Um, that my, my point is that even if the Bitcoin adviser increases by

1294
01:07:09,959 --> 01:07:13,249
a factor of 10 or 20 in the next.

1295
01:07:13,679 --> 01:07:17,109
You know, a couple of years, like it's still going to be a very difficult

1296
01:07:17,119 --> 01:07:22,209
hill to climb because the demand may go up 20x at minimum, maybe

1297
01:07:22,209 --> 01:07:23,789
more like 50 to a hundred X, right?

1298
01:07:23,839 --> 01:07:27,009
You know, the, the companies are just starting the high number of

1299
01:07:27,059 --> 01:07:28,429
individuals are just starting.

1300
01:07:28,759 --> 01:07:31,939
Um, you know, the, the, the OGs, you know, if you've got, you know,

1301
01:07:31,979 --> 01:07:35,569
50 coins, 50 coins at 50, 000 of Bitcoin is very different than 50

1302
01:07:35,569 --> 01:07:37,599
coins at, you know, a million dollars.

1303
01:07:37,599 --> 01:07:37,859
Right.

1304
01:07:37,859 --> 01:07:39,649
And so for people that are wanting to protect against.

1305
01:07:40,419 --> 01:07:44,692
theft or death or loss, I think this is going to be a very large value prop.

1306
01:07:44,762 --> 01:07:47,802
And I think the value proposition increases exponentially as the value

1307
01:07:47,802 --> 01:07:49,142
of Bitcoin increases exponentially.

1308
01:07:49,142 --> 01:07:51,802
And so, um, yeah, so that's what we do.

1309
01:07:51,852 --> 01:07:53,102
I, I'm really proud of the work we do.

1310
01:07:53,122 --> 01:07:54,212
I think Peter's brilliant.

1311
01:07:54,522 --> 01:07:59,892
Um, cause he's consistently, he, he, my experience in knowing him the last year,

1312
01:07:59,892 --> 01:08:01,442
he's been consistently ahead of the curve.

1313
01:08:02,002 --> 01:08:04,772
Um, and to me, it's.

1314
01:08:06,172 --> 01:08:07,212
It's really fulfilling.

1315
01:08:07,302 --> 01:08:11,022
So yeah, if people want to check it out, our website has lots of free resources.

1316
01:08:11,052 --> 01:08:13,782
If they want to put in the 500 hours and do it on their own for free, or

1317
01:08:13,782 --> 01:08:17,462
obviously they can book a call and, you know, pay for a service to, you

1318
01:08:17,462 --> 01:08:18,462
know, have us walk them through it.

1319
01:08:20,012 --> 01:08:21,292
That's, that, that's, that's the pitch.

1320
01:08:21,292 --> 01:08:21,892
That's what we do.

1321
01:08:21,942 --> 01:08:22,762
And it's a blast.

1322
01:08:23,168 --> 01:08:25,848
yeah, I think we're going to the like, subscribe, and

1323
01:08:25,878 --> 01:08:27,128
brush your teeth part, right?

1324
01:08:27,853 --> 01:08:33,693
Sort of, but, but, uh, well, did, did you want to ask our, our new last question?

1325
01:08:34,998 --> 01:08:39,688
Oh yeah, Luke, this is, uh, besides from working with the Bitcoin

1326
01:08:39,938 --> 01:08:42,198
adviser, what are you doing?

1327
01:08:42,923 --> 01:08:45,933
Personally, to increase your freedom footprint on the world.

1328
01:08:46,693 --> 01:08:48,113
Ooh, that's a good one.

1329
01:08:48,723 --> 01:08:50,453
My Freedom Footprint on the world?

1330
01:08:51,053 --> 01:08:52,513
Well, I'm doing a lot of traveling.

1331
01:08:52,848 --> 01:08:58,348
I'm going to Costa Rica, and this is related, but I'm going to Costa Rica

1332
01:08:58,358 --> 01:09:01,738
in like 10 days for Bitcoin Jungle, and then I'm going to South Africa.

1333
01:09:02,273 --> 01:09:05,853
Then I'm going to go to Guatemala and then, you know, a couple other

1334
01:09:05,853 --> 01:09:09,293
countries later in the year, you know, hopefully Madeira, Portugal,

1335
01:09:09,293 --> 01:09:13,643
and Prague, and obviously, you know, Canadian Bitcoin Conference, that's

1336
01:09:13,643 --> 01:09:18,983
like just north of me, but I say that to say that, uh, one of those trips,

1337
01:09:18,983 --> 01:09:23,193
especially the trip to Guatemala, um, is not particularly Bitcoin related.

1338
01:09:23,203 --> 01:09:26,923
That one is, is installing stoves for locals there, you know, for them, you

1339
01:09:26,923 --> 01:09:28,433
know, most of them cook over open flame.

1340
01:09:28,503 --> 01:09:31,193
And so cooking over an enclosed.

1341
01:09:31,648 --> 01:09:35,368
Um, stove with an actual, you know, chimney or pipe that

1342
01:09:35,368 --> 01:09:36,398
gets smoke out of the house.

1343
01:09:36,398 --> 01:09:37,548
That's like a really big deal, right?

1344
01:09:37,548 --> 01:09:40,648
It's the fastest way, you know, for many of these Guatemalans, the single

1345
01:09:40,648 --> 01:09:45,198
fastest way to reduce smoke inhalation and therefore various forms of cancers.

1346
01:09:45,328 --> 01:09:48,458
Um, the fastest way to give the wives and mothers.

1347
01:09:48,828 --> 01:09:52,856
Uh, less time chopping wood and more time, educating the kids, you know,

1348
01:09:52,856 --> 01:09:56,236
basic education, you know, is this because it's more efficient for firewood?

1349
01:09:56,546 --> 01:10:00,436
That means less jungle that's being cut down, more time to educate the kids, uh,

1350
01:10:00,496 --> 01:10:02,676
you know, less health problems, right?

1351
01:10:03,016 --> 01:10:05,646
Better calories because you can cook more food because you can have

1352
01:10:05,646 --> 01:10:06,896
the fire going for longer, right?

1353
01:10:06,896 --> 01:10:11,956
So, uh, you know, the, the whole mantra of increasing freedom and increasing

1354
01:10:11,966 --> 01:10:13,816
energy abundance and increasing.

1355
01:10:14,186 --> 01:10:18,586
Um, energy freedom, um, I think it's important to all aspects.

1356
01:10:18,626 --> 01:10:19,866
Bitcoin's an incredible tool.

1357
01:10:19,876 --> 01:10:21,756
It's not the only tool we need, but it's.

1358
01:10:22,311 --> 01:10:27,151
It's a very imperative tool at having as much energy possible

1359
01:10:27,341 --> 01:10:29,191
per capita around the world.

1360
01:10:29,221 --> 01:10:32,361
And that's what's so fulfilling about going to all these conferences, is

1361
01:10:32,371 --> 01:10:37,541
seeing how energy abundance is being manifested and created in different ways.

1362
01:10:37,766 --> 01:10:39,226
Um, each different place, right?

1363
01:10:39,226 --> 01:10:40,316
I was just in El Salvador.

1364
01:10:40,536 --> 01:10:43,846
I'm sure Costa Rica is going to be very different than El Salvador.

1365
01:10:43,846 --> 01:10:44,096
Right.

1366
01:10:44,116 --> 01:10:45,336
And I'm sure South Africa would be different.

1367
01:10:45,336 --> 01:10:46,296
Guatemala is very different.

1368
01:10:46,336 --> 01:10:49,286
So, um, yeah, anyway, yeah.

1369
01:10:49,306 --> 01:10:53,336
So I guess what I'm doing to increase my footprint is just making videos,

1370
01:10:53,336 --> 01:10:58,429
content, and hopefully inspiring people to increase energy abundance.

1371
01:10:58,988 --> 01:10:59,758
Excellent.

1372
01:10:59,898 --> 01:11:04,848
Uh, and, yeah, final question, where, where, did you have

1373
01:11:04,848 --> 01:11:06,088
anything else you want to add?

1374
01:11:06,098 --> 01:11:10,748
Where can we send your people to online if they want to dig

1375
01:11:10,748 --> 01:11:12,878
into more Luke Broil stuff?

1376
01:11:13,358 --> 01:11:16,978
Yeah, I'm on the platform, formerly known as Twitter, um, currently known as X.

1377
01:11:18,048 --> 01:11:19,488
Uh, I, I'm on there.

1378
01:11:19,498 --> 01:11:23,258
You can follow me there or subscribe on my YouTube channel.

1379
01:11:23,741 --> 01:11:26,405
you know, most important though is obviously Bitcoin adviser.

1380
01:11:26,425 --> 01:11:30,255
You can find me, you can email me, uh, luke at the bitcoinadviser.

1381
01:11:30,275 --> 01:11:33,695
com, or you can find me on the Bitcoin adviser's website.

1382
01:11:34,015 --> 01:11:35,405
They can book a free call with me.

1383
01:11:35,495 --> 01:11:39,505
We can talk through their custody and how I believe we could

1384
01:11:39,585 --> 01:11:41,035
improve it, make it more secure.

1385
01:11:41,325 --> 01:11:42,755
And help them buy more Bitcoin.

1386
01:11:42,885 --> 01:11:46,165
So, yeah, Twitter, YouTube, or Bitcoinadviser.

1387
01:11:46,749 --> 01:11:47,469
Excellent.

1388
01:11:49,069 --> 01:11:50,839
This has been the Freedom Footprint Show.

1389
01:11:51,449 --> 01:11:52,439
Over to you, Luke.

1390
01:11:52,922 --> 01:11:54,902
Well, you just said, you just said what I was going to say.

1391
01:11:56,312 --> 01:11:57,802
Yeah, thanks a lot, Luke.

1392
01:11:57,832 --> 01:11:59,012
This has been fantastic.

1393
01:11:59,012 --> 01:12:01,372
And, uh, yeah, like, subscribe, brush your teeth.

1394
01:12:01,572 --> 01:12:02,942
This has been the Freedom Footprint Show.

1395
01:12:03,292 --> 01:12:03,982
Thanks for listening.