Here Comes Cory - Defending Bitcoin with Cory Klippsten - FFS #89

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I've been saying for a long time, that I thought by 2035, most goods

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and services around the world would be priced in sats, not only sats.

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It'll be like sats in euros, sats in dollars, sats in yen, you know,

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just like the dual price tag at the.

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duty free at the airport or in a tourist town.

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Things have to move faster than they are now to hit 2035 for

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most things being priced in sats.

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, but, uh, this whole thing is going to be 80 years from start to full saturation

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anyway, because it's a technological revolution, not a damn tech product.

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one God candle ain't cool.

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You know, what's cool?

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10 God candles.

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When we see 10 God candles over the course of a few weeks, we'll see what people do.

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Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint Show.

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Our guest today is Cory Klippsten, CEO of Swan.

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Otherwise needs no introduction.

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So, Cory, thanks for joining us.

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Welcome to the Freedom Footprint Show.

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Yeah, it's great to be here.

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Nice to meet you, Luke.

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Knut, great to see you again.

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It's been way too long since we hung out.

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Yeah, we used to do it quite a lot back in the day, like more than two years

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ago, I think we used to do this a lot more often and about all sorts of topics.

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You were, you were one of the few guests on my short lived podcast, uh, that I did

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with my brother, which was really special.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's special for me to have been, um, uh, been on that.

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So, yeah, my condolences about him, his passing and everything, of

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But how amazing that, you know, I've got, I've got that 10 hours or whatever

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from those 10 podcasts on YouTube forever, which is just, uh, quite a gift.

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And, uh, he, you were one of his favorite people to talk to.

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So I appreciate that.

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I love hearing that.

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I mean, uh, I love that.

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I remember that, that session specifically.

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I, uh, he was such a, such a nice guy.

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So, yeah, I'm happy to have known him.

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So, but, uh, yeah.

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Um.

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We, we used to talk a lot back in the day and after that and up until

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this point, you've been, you've been a great shitcoin narrative debunker.

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I love that.

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There was like a couple of months where you was just, you were just

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machine gun firing out these shitcoin narrative debunking tweets and little

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videos and everything, explaining to people how they were being rug pulled.

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I just love that.

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So, in your mind, what's the latest shitcoin and what's the

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latest thing we need to debunk?

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I think I'm trying to think of like why I get heated about

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certain topics and not others.

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Right?

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Because I'm not sitting here, you know, looking for altcoin

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scams to uncover and debunk.

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That would just be like your entire life, right?

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Uh, it's because I care a lot about Bitcoin and I spend my day on Bitcoin.

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And so, you know, to, to whatever degree I have experience and a

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little bit of knowledge expertise on this particular subject and the

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narratives around it, I really don't like false narratives around Bitcoin.

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that includes false narratives promoted by Bitcoiners.

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I don't like those either.

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I like people to like Bitcoin for the right reasons, and to promote

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narratives that are true, to maintain the credibility of the people that are,

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you know, speaking on behalf of Bitcoin and Bitcoiners to the wider world.

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I don't like it when people who are promoting Bitcoin Also promote bullshit.

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I don't think that's helpful because it confuses people.

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so that's really, I think, where it came from, you know, and it's funny.

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We had already set the, the internal theme for Svan for 2022 was Bitcoin,

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not crypto, so that we started rolling out on January 1st of 2022.

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Um, this was after I think 2020 was, Bitcoin for America, cause it was

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like we were launching in the US only and it was an election year.

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And then if I recall, I think 21 was Bitcoin is for everyone.

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And we've had the Bitcoin is for everyone website and we were lighting

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up the countries on the map and all that and just doing like world

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stories during the bull market.

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And 2022 was.

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Bitcoin, not crypto, which ended up being the year for that, obviously.

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And in the only thing that got me really interested was, uh, when it started, when,

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when narrative started to be in Bitcoin.

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So it was when a bunch of the podcasters and big Twitter handles

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started promoting Doquan because he was going to do a Bitcoin treasury.

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And I was like, Like, literally, uh, crypto people already were referring

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to it as the Luna Ponzi, and I had been seeing that since December of 21.

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So to me, I was like, you're watching this thing grow, grow, grow.

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People are calling it the Luna Ponzi.

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I don't even, I didn't, I hadn't even done the research to understand

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why they called it the Luna Ponzi.

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But now all those Bitcoiners, Bitcoiners, are promoting it.

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And I was like, there must be something horribly wrong here.

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And it took literally like 45 minutes at the end of a long week in March.

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I remember it was like, I think March 24th or something like that.

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And I just dug in for like 45 minutes, found some clear signal

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people that described in detail exactly what the Ponzi was.

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And just started telling people that it was a Ponzi and they were going

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to have egg on their face and that it was all going to go to zero.

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And, you know, he obviously wasn't going to be buying 10 billion of Bitcoin and

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you're an idiot if you're putting this guy on your platform and promoting it.

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And that was it.

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That's how it started.

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So that then rolled into Celsius because I was just, I wasn't paying

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attention to Celsius either, but the news when Luna collapsed, because I

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think they collapsed, uh, basically, I think it was Friday, May 9th.

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And they basically collapsed over the weekend and went to zero, you know.

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Monday, March 12th, or May 12th, I believe, of 22, and there was news on

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like the 13th or the 14th that early that week that Celsius had pulled

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half a billion dollars of users money.

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Out of anchor, which was part of the Luna Ponzi scheme.

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And it's like, this is, this was a company that was promoting like a better

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savings account, better than the banks.

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Don't trust the bank, unbank yourself, you know, trust Moshensky, like whatever.

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They had this whole cult of personality around Moshensky and like.

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I had met that guy once back in 2017 on a zoom call because somebody

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was like, Oh, he likes Bitcoin.

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And I was just like, my skin crawled the whole time.

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I have detailed notes from that conversation, by the way, laying

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out their entire business plan.

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And so that just caught my attention.

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And I was like, I just started firing off about that.

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Like how horrifying it was that a platform that promotes itself the way that they

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did as like a better bank or whatever had user funds in a known Ponzi scheme.

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Right.

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And, and it doesn't matter whether you were stupid or you were in on it, either

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way, you have, you're not a steward of capital that anybody should be trusting.

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Right.

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So that's just kind of, and that then naturally led the collapse of the

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C5 platforms, like Celsius, BlockFi, Voyager, then led immediately into

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Sam Bankman Freed, because in June, Jim Kramer and all the dummies were.

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Uh, promoting Sam Bankman Fried as the JP Morgan of crypto.

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He's going to backstop this thing.

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He's doing it for the good of all or whatever.

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And I'm looking at it.

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I'm like, this guy is talking about purchasing companies that

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have dramatically negative value.

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Right?

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Like, you couldn't pay me to take on BlockFi, Celsius Voyager with all

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their liabilities, their negative brand value and brand equity.

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Like, it's just stupid.

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And so it's like, oh, well, he must be lying.

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And if he's lying about this, what else is he lying about?

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And so I just spent the summer going on TV and going on podcasts, just poking and

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just saying, like, this guy is not smart.

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I don't know what he's hiding.

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I don't know what it is.

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We'll find out, but there's something wrong here.

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He's clearly, like, this guy is clearly lying, uh, about lots of things.

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And then it just, um, you know, I wasn't expecting it to be that big or that bad.

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It kind of just blew my mind, but it was It was because I'd been so vocal

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and had, you know, collaborated with journalists trying to poke around and

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figure things out about FTX over the summer that on October 1st of 22, when

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some unknown source passed the Alameda balance sheet to Ian Allison at Coindesk,

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Coindesk editors, the first thing he did was send it to me and say, what is this?

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What do you see here?

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We hopped on a call for an hour.

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That became the article that brought down FTX.

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It was basically, you know, just our conversation.

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And I'm the only quote in the article, but again, I'm not out.

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I didn't, I didn't think of Voyager.

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I didn't care.

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I didn't really think of like all these other platforms that were collapsing.

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I wasn't targeting Three Arrows Capital.

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I'm not a shit coin PI.

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It was because there were false narratives around Bitcoin.

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And, and I also have a special, uh, When someone really says stupid

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things very publicly about Bitcoin that are false, then I really,

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uh, get my guns out for them.

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And you have to remember, Mashinsky, in May of 22, was saying that, uh, Bitcoin

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maximalists were responsible for 30 percent of Bitcoins being lost, and that

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everyone should send him their Bitcoin so he could keep it safe for them.

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And that's when I said, oh my god, he's a Ponzi too!

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I was just like very clear to me, like, this guy is trying to collect assets.

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It must be because he's trying to meet withdrawals because there

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was no other reason for him to say obviously false things like

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that, uh, on YouTube and Twitter.

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And then, you know, Sam Bankman Fried, you know, guy was always marketing altcoins

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and always saying like Bitcoin is a dumb rock and like, no, you know, it can't be

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used as a currency and like, like clearly didn't understand Bitcoin, but dude's

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on the cover of every damn magazine.

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So I just, you know, had it, had it in for that guy.

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I remember one tweet in particular from that era that I'm extra proud of.

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And that was, uh, just two words.

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Don't quant.

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That's what I wrote.

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Don't Kwan.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, we had to, we had to have nicknames.

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It was, it was Don't Kwan, uh, Mascamski, Alex Mascamski.

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And then my favorite, which ended up being used as a headline for, uh, I think New

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York Magazine was, uh, uh, in the summer, I started calling him Scambankster Fraud.

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Scam banks to fraud.

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I remember that one.

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That's a good one.

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The best thing to come out of, uh, Trump's first presidency was, uh, a

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willingness to tag people with nicknames.

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What, what is, yeah.

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Crooked Hillary.

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That was the best thing he could come up with, right?

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So many.

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I mean, he just, he had one for everybody.

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I think it was, wasn't it low energy jab?

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Yeah.

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But that tho those weren't necessarily clever.

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I mean, scam banks to, uh, banks to fraud is clever cleverer

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than, than just crooked Hillary.

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But we're not here to fight the last battle.

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Like that's, that's, that's over for now.

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And, you know, I just, I feel like we, we left, we left.

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Ship coins dramatically reduced in power and standing versus Bitcoin.

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And regardless of what comes with the next scam wave, which looks

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like it's going to be these, these.

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S.

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O.

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B.

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V.

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C.

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s pushing S.

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O.

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B.

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s on Bitcoin.

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That's shitcoins on Bitcoin.

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I call them S.

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O.

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B.

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V.

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C.

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s.

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SOB VCs.

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Yeah.

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that's obviously going to be the big, the big theme of shitcoinery scams coming

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up, uh, but I just think it's not gonna It's not going to be anything close to

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the, uh, Scambrian explosion of 2017 to 2023, which was, you know, 90 billion of

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shitcoin VC money marketing these things.

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And they had a leg to stand on in the market claiming that they were better

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than Bitcoin and that they could be money or were going to be better money.

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And like, that's off the table.

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That's just not ever going to happen.

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There's no one even at Ethereum claiming like, ultrasound money or anything.

239
00:13:40,745 --> 00:13:44,965
Like, the money thing is done, and that's the biggest market by far.

240
00:13:45,415 --> 00:13:47,765
And so I just think they're going to be nipping at the edges, and it's

241
00:13:47,765 --> 00:13:50,375
going to be annoying that they're scamming and doing all this stuff.

242
00:13:50,375 --> 00:13:54,944
But like You know, Larry and Abby, our frenemies at the, at the,

243
00:13:54,944 --> 00:13:59,824
uh, ETFs are kind of taking care of, uh, the vast majority of the

244
00:13:59,824 --> 00:14:01,284
messaging being about Bitcoin.

245
00:14:01,757 --> 00:14:02,177
Yeah.

246
00:14:02,257 --> 00:14:03,287
And it's going to be harder.

247
00:14:03,307 --> 00:14:09,147
Like we've had a lot of conversations about this on the show that to some

248
00:14:09,147 --> 00:14:11,567
extent your focus and attention creates.

249
00:14:11,867 --> 00:14:13,057
Reality for you.

250
00:14:13,567 --> 00:14:18,227
And your reality becomes what you choose to pay attention to.

251
00:14:18,647 --> 00:14:22,807
And when it comes to shitcoiners like, you know, shitboycrafto and all of

252
00:14:22,807 --> 00:14:27,267
this, now we've ended up talking about shitcoiners on a lot of episodes here,

253
00:14:27,267 --> 00:14:32,917
but that's, it's only to make this point that calling out scammers Sometimes has

254
00:14:32,917 --> 00:14:37,277
the opposite effect because the only thing the pig wants is to mud wrestle, right?

255
00:14:37,557 --> 00:14:41,367
So, so they, they want the attention they get from being called out.

256
00:14:42,057 --> 00:14:48,007
I think some of these crypto influencers, they, they love that the quote unquote

257
00:14:48,027 --> 00:14:52,257
maxis were on them all the time and retweeted them saying how stupid they

258
00:14:52,257 --> 00:14:53,757
were because they got the retweets.

259
00:14:54,477 --> 00:14:59,057
So, so I think there's something there, but now we have to defend our turf because

260
00:14:59,097 --> 00:15:04,057
as you say, now they're in Bitcoin and, you know, minting cats and, uh, and

261
00:15:04,067 --> 00:15:09,717
stupid, uh, shitcoin tokens on top of Bitcoin thinking that somehow blocks are

262
00:15:09,717 --> 00:15:13,857
scarcer than sats, which is simply not true because there's always a next block

263
00:15:13,967 --> 00:15:18,114
out there somewhere, And they're not even attached to a Satoshi in the first

264
00:15:18,114 --> 00:15:22,714
place, they're attached to a transaction, these things, if attached to anything.

265
00:15:23,224 --> 00:15:29,614
Uh, so, yeah, this, I guess this is a good segue into, uh, Swan Mining,

266
00:15:29,694 --> 00:15:34,004
and, uh, what is Swan Mining doing to prevent shitcoining on Bitcoin?

267
00:15:34,524 --> 00:15:36,654
Can you tell us the story there?

268
00:15:37,095 --> 00:15:43,215
well, I guess all I can say is, like, I'm eager to see The whole thing play

269
00:15:43,215 --> 00:15:48,735
out and I think we're in the first inning to, to, to let the arguments come out.

270
00:15:48,825 --> 00:15:55,017
And, I am very humble when I get into a new area that I don't have

271
00:15:55,017 --> 00:15:58,997
a lot of expertise in yet, which is why, you know, you won't find tweets

272
00:15:59,057 --> 00:16:01,737
about Bitcoin from me, like pre 2019.

273
00:16:01,767 --> 00:16:04,187
Cause I just was learning and didn't know shit.

274
00:16:04,917 --> 00:16:07,417
Um, so I don't want to be like, Hey, I just got to Bitcoin

275
00:16:07,417 --> 00:16:08,657
mining and I'm here to fix it.

276
00:16:09,516 --> 00:16:13,566
You know, so like, this is even, you know, so even, even if you think about

277
00:16:13,566 --> 00:16:18,676
like, you know, I, so I just, and I also don't have a ton of time anymore

278
00:16:18,696 --> 00:16:20,976
to go super deep the way that I used to.

279
00:16:21,406 --> 00:16:26,526
And so it wasn't until the holidays that I actually read enough to, to

280
00:16:26,526 --> 00:16:29,636
let people know for the first time, like where I was on this stuff.

281
00:16:29,636 --> 00:16:34,466
And so I think January 1st, I put out kind of like what I thought was going

282
00:16:34,466 --> 00:16:35,946
on with the whole ordinals thing.

283
00:16:35,986 --> 00:16:38,456
And I had reserved judgment for how long, like.

284
00:16:38,901 --> 00:16:39,471
A year?

285
00:16:39,871 --> 00:16:40,291
Or more?

286
00:16:40,291 --> 00:16:40,791
I don't even know.

287
00:16:40,791 --> 00:16:44,901
When did, when did Casey publish the first thing on Ordinals?

288
00:16:44,921 --> 00:16:45,301
Was it?

289
00:16:45,857 --> 00:16:46,447
I don't even know.

290
00:16:46,447 --> 00:16:49,197
I think it was, I think it, I think it was like a year before.

291
00:16:49,207 --> 00:16:51,147
It's been almost two years, right?

292
00:16:51,457 --> 00:16:51,957
Wasn't it?

293
00:16:52,127 --> 00:16:56,067
Yeah, we probably wouldn't have heard about it if it hadn't received all

294
00:16:56,067 --> 00:17:00,822
the attention it got from people who Somehow it feels like the

295
00:17:00,822 --> 00:17:05,042
whole narrative, the whole fight about them, is false to begin with.

296
00:17:05,062 --> 00:17:10,012
Like, that they didn't need to be called out even, because if no one

297
00:17:10,012 --> 00:17:13,322
had paid the attention initially, they probably never could have

298
00:17:13,322 --> 00:17:16,262
pulled the thing off, because nobody would have heard about these things.

299
00:17:16,767 --> 00:17:19,867
That's, at least there's a grain of truth to that, I think.

300
00:17:20,157 --> 00:17:21,077
So I'll just read it.

301
00:17:21,077 --> 00:17:22,567
It'll take 60 seconds.

302
00:17:22,597 --> 00:17:26,567
But, uh, this was where I landed after spending probably 15

303
00:17:26,607 --> 00:17:27,867
hours on it over the holidays.

304
00:17:28,637 --> 00:17:31,907
Uh, so I put this out on Twitter on Jan 1.

305
00:17:32,117 --> 00:17:35,857
Uh, my preliminary conclusions from catching up on ordinals over the holiday,

306
00:17:36,367 --> 00:17:39,997
JPEGs actually aren't a problem at all since they get priced out by normal

307
00:17:39,997 --> 00:17:42,177
Bitcoin spending with even lowish fees.

308
00:17:42,277 --> 00:17:44,987
Pretending they're a problem for Bitcoin is actually the marketing

309
00:17:44,987 --> 00:17:46,737
strategy of the JPEG marketers.

310
00:17:47,217 --> 00:17:50,607
Have fun if you want, ignore if you want, either way they don't matter long term.

311
00:17:51,437 --> 00:17:55,827
All the fungible token mints, BRC20 stamps, ARC20 atomicals, etc.

312
00:17:55,827 --> 00:17:58,917
create trillions of meme coins that have no function and they are

313
00:17:58,917 --> 00:18:02,777
a problem because they price out normal bitcoin spins and JPEGs.

314
00:18:03,452 --> 00:18:07,422
But history and basic economics tells us that this new pump and dump category

315
00:18:07,422 --> 00:18:11,282
will die out on its own from oversupply like yield farming, dog coins, and

316
00:18:11,332 --> 00:18:14,522
any other shitcoin degen pump theme that's ever so briefly relevant.

317
00:18:15,122 --> 00:18:18,502
Conclusion, I don't need to spend any more time on this unless something

318
00:18:18,502 --> 00:18:22,142
drastic changes, in which case I'm sure someone will tell me to dive back in.

319
00:18:22,702 --> 00:18:23,272
Caveat.

320
00:18:23,272 --> 00:18:27,112
I've spent maybe 10 hours on this stuff and I do not code.

321
00:18:27,724 --> 00:18:31,654
I agree with all of that, especially like the, the, the stamps and this

322
00:18:31,654 --> 00:18:35,734
stuff though, it, it is a problem because it clogs the, the chain forever.

323
00:18:35,734 --> 00:18:38,849
It will take longer for people to sync and node in the future.

324
00:18:39,469 --> 00:18:44,489
Unnecessarily, because people did this back in 2023 and 24.

325
00:18:45,157 --> 00:18:49,657
uh, you know, and so also, like if you think about like on the mining side, and,

326
00:18:49,957 --> 00:18:55,507
you know, I was a fan of Ocean Pro, uh, ocean Pool before, you know, mechanic

327
00:18:55,507 --> 00:18:56,917
and Luke started talking a lot about.

328
00:18:57,717 --> 00:19:03,107
Spam filters, so I had already invested in Ocean before they really

329
00:19:03,107 --> 00:19:05,747
took up the mantle and started battling the wizards or whatever.

330
00:19:06,265 --> 00:19:10,035
and, and I've also done more business with them and helped them out,

331
00:19:10,465 --> 00:19:12,465
uh, after they started doing that.

332
00:19:12,845 --> 00:19:15,815
I'm eager to see these forces play out against each other and

333
00:19:15,815 --> 00:19:16,855
I want to see the arguments.

334
00:19:17,605 --> 00:19:19,795
And, you know, the, the one thing.

335
00:19:20,362 --> 00:19:26,152
The one thing I don't think I've seen a lot of is people without a vested

336
00:19:26,162 --> 00:19:36,320
interest in promoting ordinals, make a strong argument that nothing can be done.

337
00:19:36,984 --> 00:19:41,409
So I, that seems to be the thing that I see promoted a lot, which is Hey,

338
00:19:41,429 --> 00:19:46,839
just accept it, cope, nothing can be done, but the only people that say that

339
00:19:47,089 --> 00:19:51,099
are people making money off of it or, you know, kind of really close to it.

340
00:19:51,109 --> 00:19:53,699
So it's, you know, it's Bitcoin Magazine reporters and editors,

341
00:19:54,509 --> 00:19:57,679
you know, who basically that, that organization is essentially

342
00:19:57,679 --> 00:20:00,049
monetizing through altcoin funds now.

343
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,260
with a mouthpiece and a megaphone, uh, it doesn't detract whatsoever

344
00:20:04,260 --> 00:20:07,240
from all the great things they've done for Bitcoin outside of that, but

345
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:08,470
that's just kind of the current trend.

346
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:11,460
It's like, you know, their best reporter from the last few years

347
00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:15,330
is no longer reporting and is running an altcoin trading desk.

348
00:20:16,105 --> 00:20:16,415
Right.

349
00:20:16,445 --> 00:20:19,755
It's kind of, it's, it's a shame more than anything, but you know,

350
00:20:19,755 --> 00:20:21,255
you do, you do have to stay alive.

351
00:20:21,255 --> 00:20:21,575
Right.

352
00:20:21,675 --> 00:20:23,743
And, yeah, so I don't know.

353
00:20:23,753 --> 00:20:24,273
We'll see.

354
00:20:24,343 --> 00:20:30,683
I, I, I am much more into like the, the longer term vision of ocean and

355
00:20:30,713 --> 00:20:34,853
being able to create your own block templates and decentralized mining and

356
00:20:34,853 --> 00:20:36,433
full transparency all the way through.

357
00:20:36,433 --> 00:20:40,753
You wouldn't believe the kind of fucking chicanery afoot with the pools.

358
00:20:41,733 --> 00:20:45,903
Uh, and the differences in how their payouts work and the lack of transparency

359
00:20:45,903 --> 00:20:52,663
and, you know, both pools and, uh, you know, some of these optimization softwares

360
00:20:52,683 --> 00:20:57,873
having hidden code that's using your hash for merge mining over here or siphoning

361
00:20:57,883 --> 00:20:59,693
off some, some of your shit over there.

362
00:21:00,233 --> 00:21:01,663
Uh, it's, it's wild.

363
00:21:01,703 --> 00:21:04,983
Like, you, you really can't, until you run the numbers yourself and

364
00:21:04,983 --> 00:21:07,933
you do kind of like a pool bake off and you watch everything, you

365
00:21:07,933 --> 00:21:09,603
know, by the minute, by the block.

366
00:21:10,136 --> 00:21:13,316
you can't really trust anybody in, in that space.

367
00:21:13,416 --> 00:21:20,236
So having at least one pool that gets to a decent level, you know, I

368
00:21:20,466 --> 00:21:25,426
think oceans over one, like that's valuable in and of itself and is

369
00:21:25,456 --> 00:21:30,836
actually worth, you know, and I don't know, like the, it's, it's still TBD.

370
00:21:31,056 --> 00:21:34,946
I see, I see lots of analyses both ways on which one, which ways make more money.

371
00:21:35,401 --> 00:21:42,691
But regardless, as someone that has a wide interest in Bitcoin beyond just Our

372
00:21:42,691 --> 00:21:48,727
mining management unit, which is 10 out of 160 people, for the good of Bitcoin

373
00:21:48,727 --> 00:21:54,183
and, you know, all the other things that Svan does, I want to see this play out and

374
00:21:54,193 --> 00:21:58,633
having somebody that provides that check on the rest of the mining pool industry,

375
00:21:58,633 --> 00:22:00,443
because they're completely transparent.

376
00:22:01,533 --> 00:22:05,231
is worth a ton because then we can go and we can use that as leverage

377
00:22:05,231 --> 00:22:07,891
against the other mining pools and say, why don't you do it like this?

378
00:22:08,031 --> 00:22:09,651
And like, it just creates all this pressure.

379
00:22:09,651 --> 00:22:15,071
So for us, even if we did make a little bit less money per block or something,

380
00:22:15,081 --> 00:22:20,531
because you weren't mining You know, cat pictures or something, uh, it would still

381
00:22:20,531 --> 00:22:27,131
be worth supporting overall, even greedily for Svan, let alone as the obvious thing

382
00:22:27,131 --> 00:22:29,251
to do to see how it plays out for Bitcoin.

383
00:22:29,744 --> 00:22:34,924
yeah, it's sort of the equivalent of El Salvador on a nation state scale.

384
00:22:35,512 --> 00:22:41,622
You know, this little, small little player, not being even 1 percent of

385
00:22:41,622 --> 00:22:46,522
the world, but still, it's there as a beacon for every other nation state

386
00:22:46,582 --> 00:22:50,392
to have a look at, and for people in those nation states especially.

387
00:22:50,887 --> 00:22:53,747
That being equivalent to the hashers out there that sell their

388
00:22:53,747 --> 00:22:55,427
hashing powers to mining pools.

389
00:22:55,807 --> 00:22:59,707
That they could just move to this place and use proper Bitcoin instead

390
00:22:59,707 --> 00:23:08,077
of trying to avoid taxes in, I don't know, France, . So, uh, yeah,

391
00:23:08,077 --> 00:23:09,157
there, there's something there.

392
00:23:09,217 --> 00:23:14,907
Uh, transparency because like, that's, that's a, a beautiful distinction

393
00:23:14,907 --> 00:23:19,077
that mechanic made when he was here on the, on the Freedom Footprint show.

394
00:23:19,167 --> 00:23:24,667
Um, talking about the difference between a minor and AER, because the miners

395
00:23:24,667 --> 00:23:26,887
are really the pools and the, the, uh.

396
00:23:27,847 --> 00:23:32,527
The individual miners, quote unquote, they're just basically just hashers

397
00:23:32,537 --> 00:23:37,687
selling hash power and they're not really, unless you know what you're selling your

398
00:23:37,697 --> 00:23:43,327
hash power to, you're not a miner, you're just a hashing algorithm facilitator.

399
00:23:44,181 --> 00:23:44,631
that's true.

400
00:23:45,228 --> 00:23:47,478
So, so what's, so what's the plan with Swan Mining?

401
00:23:47,488 --> 00:23:53,523
Like, are you directing all your hashing power to To Ocean, or what are you doing?

402
00:23:53,588 --> 00:23:55,638
Well, we, we know that's not true.

403
00:23:55,738 --> 00:23:58,398
We know that's not true because I tweeted out yesterday or the day

404
00:23:58,398 --> 00:24:03,018
before, uh, that we, I think our latest time I checked, we were at 5.

405
00:24:03,018 --> 00:24:05,158
24 exahash across our

406
00:24:05,213 --> 00:24:06,503
and the numbers don't add up.

407
00:24:07,028 --> 00:24:09,558
Yeah, Ocean's at like one and a quarter or 1.

408
00:24:09,558 --> 00:24:10,898
2 or something like that.

409
00:24:10,958 --> 00:24:14,598
So we can't, we can't possibly be directing all our hash to Ocean.

410
00:24:15,228 --> 00:24:19,518
Um, you know, and, and again, we're in the early days where we're testing out

411
00:24:19,518 --> 00:24:23,548
all the pools and seeing like who's honest and who, who does things the way

412
00:24:23,548 --> 00:24:25,248
that we want to and things like that.

413
00:24:25,258 --> 00:24:27,488
So we're kind of still in a pool bake off and.

414
00:24:28,143 --> 00:24:29,643
And, uh, running the numbers.

415
00:24:30,043 --> 00:24:30,573
It's early.

416
00:24:31,198 --> 00:24:35,688
Yeah, yeah, I suspect you did something though, because just when swan mining

417
00:24:35,688 --> 00:24:40,828
was announced, the Ocean's hashing power went up quite significantly.

418
00:24:41,658 --> 00:24:42,988
Even though it's still way

419
00:24:43,028 --> 00:24:45,908
I like to see lots of Bitcoin numbers go up.

420
00:24:46,498 --> 00:24:47,378
It makes me happy.

421
00:24:47,508 --> 00:24:48,328
I like

422
00:24:48,428 --> 00:24:51,338
yeah, yeah, I won't poke around too much.

423
00:24:51,428 --> 00:24:55,798
Um, anyway, so, so what else is up with Svan these days?

424
00:24:55,798 --> 00:24:58,908
Like, what, what are you, what are the other things you're, you're working on?

425
00:24:59,068 --> 00:24:59,548
Cool,

426
00:24:59,778 --> 00:25:00,308
Yeah.

427
00:25:00,318 --> 00:25:01,558
So let's see.

428
00:25:01,818 --> 00:25:02,758
Oh, so much.

429
00:25:03,048 --> 00:25:03,598
It's crazy.

430
00:25:05,713 --> 00:25:06,283
where to start?

431
00:25:06,313 --> 00:25:06,743
Let's see.

432
00:25:06,813 --> 00:25:13,053
We are about to launch our asset backed loan products.

433
00:25:13,253 --> 00:25:15,473
Unfortunately, it's kind of like big ticket only.

434
00:25:15,523 --> 00:25:17,133
I think it'll probably be like a million plus.

435
00:25:17,153 --> 00:25:19,063
So it's much more of like an institutional product.

436
00:25:19,577 --> 00:25:20,803
but I think that'll be really cool.

437
00:25:21,273 --> 00:25:27,073
we are about to relaunch Swan Advisor, which is our, you know, for, for wealth

438
00:25:27,093 --> 00:25:29,243
managers, US only, unfortunately.

439
00:25:29,243 --> 00:25:31,933
So this is the registered investment advisors and FAs.

440
00:25:32,643 --> 00:25:35,793
And we used to have like three dozen of them before the, the prime

441
00:25:35,793 --> 00:25:37,713
trust collapse, and now we've.

442
00:25:37,998 --> 00:25:41,948
Finally kind of rebuilt it on top of BitGo and can be back in market and

443
00:25:41,948 --> 00:25:43,498
light up the partners that we had before.

444
00:25:43,968 --> 00:25:45,418
So excited to bring that back.

445
00:25:46,498 --> 00:25:51,268
we relaunched, we brought, brought Texas back a few weeks ago.

446
00:25:51,328 --> 00:25:55,268
We had not been in Texas for the last year and a half or so since,

447
00:25:56,308 --> 00:25:58,808
regulatory BS with trust companies.

448
00:25:59,338 --> 00:26:03,608
Later this year, we'll be launching our own Bitcoin only trust company,

449
00:26:03,628 --> 00:26:10,726
which I think is dramatically, underappreciated by people so far.

450
00:26:11,205 --> 00:26:19,701
it remains the model that is the best for custody of Bitcoin in the USA,

451
00:26:19,701 --> 00:26:22,681
which is having the legal segregation.

452
00:26:22,721 --> 00:26:25,321
And again, this is not for people that are taking self custody, which

453
00:26:25,321 --> 00:26:28,301
is the vast majority of Bitcoin, but for the people that are stuck.

454
00:26:28,956 --> 00:26:32,686
In third party custody, because they're not willing to or able to, or for

455
00:26:32,686 --> 00:26:37,066
some regulatory reason, like with the advisor product, they have to leave

456
00:26:37,386 --> 00:26:38,996
the coins in third party custody.

457
00:26:39,426 --> 00:26:45,466
Having an individually owned, legally segregated, bankruptcy or remote trust

458
00:26:45,466 --> 00:26:47,506
account is the best place to put that.

459
00:26:48,041 --> 00:26:52,161
And then if you can layer that on top of multi institutional custody, which is the

460
00:26:52,161 --> 00:26:55,361
direction that we're going, where like, you know, client has a key, we have a

461
00:26:55,361 --> 00:27:00,671
key, BitGo has a key, or, you know, us and Unchained and, and the client, stuff

462
00:27:00,671 --> 00:27:06,670
like that, that's going to be a big leg up, I think, for, for the market, but

463
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,320
more importantly, The, the companies that have done this historically have

464
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:16,280
been constrained, and you'll even hear like, you know, Mike Belshi at BitGo talk

465
00:27:16,290 --> 00:27:20,640
about this a lot, and Jameson has talked about it, Reardon Code talks about it.

466
00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:25,980
When you're developing, like, a product roadmap at a trust company that has a

467
00:27:25,980 --> 00:27:32,855
bunch of altcoins, You really can only develop products or processes or whatever

468
00:27:32,865 --> 00:27:37,723
that are scalable across Bitcoin and like hundreds of altcoins, because that's

469
00:27:37,723 --> 00:27:39,083
what you need to serve your customers.

470
00:27:39,563 --> 00:27:42,743
And so you can't really take advantage of things in the Bitcoin

471
00:27:43,113 --> 00:27:46,543
code or that are happening in the Bitcoin ecosystem, or even justify.

472
00:27:47,598 --> 00:27:53,608
a team or expense helping that to develop, you know, for instance, like we've had

473
00:27:53,718 --> 00:27:57,568
lightning withdrawals internally for ourselves, you know, for years, but

474
00:27:57,568 --> 00:28:01,788
we can't light it up because we didn't control the product roadmap at the

475
00:28:01,788 --> 00:28:03,218
trust companies that we use, right?

476
00:28:03,278 --> 00:28:07,828
Historically Prime Trust, Fortress, Fortress now backed, and they don't

477
00:28:07,838 --> 00:28:11,918
really have the incentive to do much on lightning, let alone liquid,

478
00:28:11,918 --> 00:28:15,158
for instance, because it's not scalable across all their altcoins.

479
00:28:16,248 --> 00:28:21,458
So when we own that, we can turn on lightning overnight and we can go and, you

480
00:28:21,458 --> 00:28:25,168
know, do cool liquid things and, and we can offer that to everybody else as well.

481
00:28:25,228 --> 00:28:28,668
So like, you know, Fold is on Fortress as well, just like us.

482
00:28:28,688 --> 00:28:31,098
And we're kind of stuck until there's a better option.

483
00:28:31,098 --> 00:28:33,448
And there's another dozen Bitcoin companies, you know, kind of

484
00:28:33,458 --> 00:28:36,958
stuck, stuck at Fortress because Prime Trust doesn't exist anymore.

485
00:28:37,368 --> 00:28:40,348
And when we light up the Bitcoin only trust company, which will

486
00:28:40,358 --> 00:28:45,638
be again this year, there's just going to be a great opportunity.

487
00:28:46,708 --> 00:28:51,918
for all of us to just do things way faster in what I think still is by

488
00:28:51,918 --> 00:28:55,268
far the best model for custody if you have to use third party custody.

489
00:30:03,617 --> 00:30:06,967
we're coming to Brazil, so that'll be our second country, that's the plan.

490
00:30:07,007 --> 00:30:09,907
So, before the end of the year, we should be, should be live in Brazil.

491
00:30:10,457 --> 00:30:15,637
Plan right now is, uh, Brazil first, then Australia, and then Western Europe.

492
00:30:15,887 --> 00:30:18,507
So, we're gonna kinda cut our teeth and get used to, like, how to enter

493
00:30:18,507 --> 00:30:23,377
markets, and kinda learn the playbook, um, first with something that's close to

494
00:30:23,377 --> 00:30:27,207
the US time zone, uh, in Brazil, which is a pretty big market, and we happen

495
00:30:27,207 --> 00:30:30,177
to have a lot of Brazilians on the team, so, good connections and stuff.

496
00:30:30,554 --> 00:30:34,374
and then we have a new head of APAC that's based in Australia and we

497
00:30:34,374 --> 00:30:35,754
have really good relationships there.

498
00:30:35,804 --> 00:30:40,384
And, and we obviously have, uh, Della Vadova is our VP of BizDev and he's

499
00:30:40,384 --> 00:30:42,254
currently playing for Melbourne United.

500
00:30:42,254 --> 00:30:45,664
And, you know, he's kind of the most famous basketball player in Australia.

501
00:30:45,664 --> 00:30:48,288
So all the billionaires love him and he can kind of meet anybody.

502
00:30:48,729 --> 00:30:52,519
So it's just like, I think we'll, we'll be able to get in market in

503
00:30:52,519 --> 00:30:54,449
a, in a pretty big way in Australia.

504
00:30:54,539 --> 00:30:56,989
I'm trying to do that this year.

505
00:30:57,369 --> 00:31:01,019
That seems hard to make before the end of the year, but I'm pretty

506
00:31:01,019 --> 00:31:02,589
damn sure we'll be out there in 25.

507
00:31:03,081 --> 00:31:07,841
Any one of you guys coming down to Bitcoin Alive in Sydney next month?

508
00:31:08,556 --> 00:31:10,036
I'm sure Arturo will.

509
00:31:10,076 --> 00:31:11,846
That's, uh, it's a good, good point.

510
00:31:11,926 --> 00:31:14,816
Um, that's our, our head of APAC that's based in Brisbane.

511
00:31:14,866 --> 00:31:19,166
So, uh, I didn't know about it, so I'll mention it to him and let him know.

512
00:31:20,366 --> 00:31:21,176
great conference.

513
00:31:21,176 --> 00:31:24,256
I went last year and, uh, yeah, had a great time there.

514
00:31:24,756 --> 00:31:28,076
And there's a, yeah, there's a bunch of people going there this year.

515
00:31:28,076 --> 00:31:28,626
So, yeah.

516
00:31:29,696 --> 00:31:33,086
If you're around Australia, make sure you check it out.

517
00:31:34,186 --> 00:31:41,236
Speaking of conferences, we're going to Madeira here in, I'm going on Monday.

518
00:31:41,516 --> 00:31:44,636
But I don't think you, you're not coming there, right?

519
00:31:45,298 --> 00:31:46,738
No, I'll be there.

520
00:31:46,738 --> 00:31:49,268
Uh, I'll be there in spirit.

521
00:31:52,158 --> 00:31:52,478
There you go.

522
00:31:52,758 --> 00:31:53,478
Got my Atlantis

523
00:31:53,488 --> 00:31:54,298
Ah, there we go.

524
00:31:54,888 --> 00:31:56,278
Yeah, there will be quite a few,

525
00:31:56,368 --> 00:31:56,728
Nice,

526
00:31:56,768 --> 00:32:00,448
there'll be a few swans there, but I am not able to make the trip.

527
00:32:01,365 --> 00:32:06,425
For those of you listening, Cory just put on a Bitcoin Atlantis cap.

528
00:32:06,910 --> 00:32:07,730
Baseball cap.

529
00:32:07,765 --> 00:32:07,795
Yes.

530
00:32:08,693 --> 00:32:09,043
Yeah.

531
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,260
almost as nice as my Here Come Cory hat.

532
00:32:13,155 --> 00:32:14,825
oh yeah, there it is.

533
00:32:14,835 --> 00:32:15,795
Fantastic.

534
00:32:17,449 --> 00:32:20,559
But there are a lot of other Swan people coming to Madeira though.

535
00:32:20,884 --> 00:32:21,094
Yes.

536
00:32:21,454 --> 00:32:21,924
Lots.

537
00:32:22,259 --> 00:32:24,049
Is Tomer still with you?

538
00:32:24,348 --> 00:32:24,778
Of course.

539
00:32:25,008 --> 00:32:25,228
Yeah.

540
00:32:25,318 --> 00:32:30,098
Tomer's, Tomer's our editor in chief for, uh, Swan Private Insight.

541
00:32:30,138 --> 00:32:32,358
Does a lot of other stuff on the content side.

542
00:32:32,861 --> 00:32:37,562
and then of course we have, you know, the ones who got away, uh, some Swan alumni

543
00:32:37,642 --> 00:32:42,327
that we, uh, Love and miss, like Pablo and Gigi, uh, of course we'll be there.

544
00:32:42,917 --> 00:32:43,347
Yeah.

545
00:32:43,937 --> 00:32:44,157
Yeah.

546
00:32:44,157 --> 00:32:49,037
So there's a whole bunch of people, um, coming to Madeira and, uh, yeah, it's

547
00:32:49,307 --> 00:32:53,207
going to be great to see, especially the Americans, because I, I, uh,

548
00:32:54,091 --> 00:32:58,181
rare that I get a chance to see them since we're, we have a pond to cross.

549
00:32:58,648 --> 00:33:01,988
in order to make that happen, but it's always great.

550
00:33:02,683 --> 00:33:04,533
Are you in, where, what city are you in?

551
00:33:05,113 --> 00:33:05,193
I

552
00:33:05,513 --> 00:33:09,233
Uh, I, I'm in Southeastern Spain somewhere,

553
00:33:09,683 --> 00:33:10,013
Okay.

554
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,620
Malaga or something like that.

555
00:33:12,250 --> 00:33:14,160
a bit further up the coast than that.

556
00:33:14,290 --> 00:33:15,670
So, closer to Alicante.

557
00:33:16,730 --> 00:33:19,540
my dad lived in Alicante for six months back in like.

558
00:33:20,265 --> 00:33:21,515
1970 or something like that.

559
00:33:21,648 --> 00:33:22,658
He was, he was brief.

560
00:33:22,668 --> 00:33:27,241
He was a Spanish major and I went and, uh, I studied abroad

561
00:33:27,241 --> 00:33:30,211
in Barcelona in grad school and I've been there a bunch of times.

562
00:33:30,705 --> 00:33:34,015
yeah, we've been here for two and a half years now, I think.

563
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:39,860
Uh, so I don't know when we last did a pod, I think it was over two and a half

564
00:33:39,860 --> 00:33:43,210
years ago, maybe, maybe I was still back in Sweden when we did the last one.

565
00:33:43,210 --> 00:33:44,200
Yeah.

566
00:33:44,330 --> 00:33:44,750
so.

567
00:33:44,790 --> 00:33:45,100
Yeah.

568
00:33:45,580 --> 00:33:47,920
Like you were, you were more pale.

569
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,490
You seemed like you were probably, you know, listening to more

570
00:33:51,490 --> 00:33:54,700
death metal and less, you know, hip hop or something, you know,

571
00:33:56,350 --> 00:33:56,370
yeah.

572
00:33:57,730 --> 00:34:02,010
I, it's probably this, you know, before and after Bitcoin meme, you know, with

573
00:34:02,020 --> 00:34:09,310
the beard and everything, you know, more, increasingly more crazy with the years.

574
00:34:10,870 --> 00:34:11,410
That's great.

575
00:34:11,836 --> 00:34:13,596
So, so you have your own conference, right?

576
00:34:13,696 --> 00:34:14,786
Uh, Pacific.

577
00:34:15,149 --> 00:34:19,211
Yeah, we got Pacific Bitcoin coming up in October in Los Angeles.

578
00:34:19,431 --> 00:34:22,891
It's, uh, the 17th through the 19th out here.

579
00:34:23,261 --> 00:34:25,741
Included a Saturday this year, which will be really fun.

580
00:34:26,401 --> 00:34:29,931
Gets bigger and better every year, and, uh, yeah, I like that a lot.

581
00:34:30,481 --> 00:34:32,771
I don't do a lot of traveling for conferences just because I have

582
00:34:32,771 --> 00:34:35,971
young kids, and so the bar is like really, really high to get away,

583
00:34:36,051 --> 00:34:38,811
uh, which is probably why we started the conference in LA in the first

584
00:34:38,811 --> 00:34:40,331
place, because I can sleep at home.

585
00:34:41,148 --> 00:34:42,038
Not a bad idea.

586
00:34:43,248 --> 00:34:47,696
So yeah, um, yeah, yeah, I'd love to come, and check out

587
00:34:47,791 --> 00:34:52,781
on, you, uh, well, you're, you're invited officially to come speak

588
00:34:53,401 --> 00:34:54,351
if you want to be on stage.

589
00:34:55,419 --> 00:34:55,719
Yeah.

590
00:34:55,739 --> 00:34:56,259
Awesome.

591
00:34:56,341 --> 00:34:59,741
Well, you know, the other thing is we have, we have a lot of performances

592
00:34:59,781 --> 00:35:04,971
at Pacific Bitcoin because the, the third stage is actually a, it's a

593
00:35:04,971 --> 00:35:08,171
full size basketball half court.

594
00:35:08,311 --> 00:35:12,271
So it's like NBA dimensions and we do a lot of musical performances there.

595
00:35:12,271 --> 00:35:14,941
So there's like DJs and singers and.

596
00:35:15,756 --> 00:35:16,806
Yeah, it's pretty fun.

597
00:35:16,846 --> 00:35:21,206
There's also a three on three tournament and, like, MMA demo I was going to say

598
00:35:21,206 --> 00:35:24,676
demonstrations, but I accidentally was going to say demolitions because Ben

599
00:35:24,676 --> 00:35:30,046
Aspin was there and wrestled plebs over and over again, just, like, pinning them.

600
00:35:31,976 --> 00:35:32,736
That was pretty fun.

601
00:35:32,746 --> 00:35:32,756
Oh,

602
00:35:33,481 --> 00:35:37,151
You gotta book this Nirvana cover act, Nevermined.

603
00:35:37,561 --> 00:35:38,271
You heard of them?

604
00:35:38,861 --> 00:35:39,341
I haven't.

605
00:35:39,351 --> 00:35:40,221
That sounds amazing.

606
00:35:40,221 --> 00:35:41,451
I mean, you know, I'm a Seattleite.

607
00:35:41,531 --> 00:35:41,871
So

608
00:35:42,261 --> 00:35:42,901
Yeah, yeah.

609
00:35:43,161 --> 00:35:48,961
It's, it's me and Samson and Luke and, Mark from the Princess Hotel,

610
00:35:48,961 --> 00:35:50,381
the Bitcoin Hotel in Stuttgart.

611
00:35:51,221 --> 00:35:51,501
We,

612
00:35:51,811 --> 00:35:53,081
tell me you've played a show.

613
00:35:53,101 --> 00:35:54,021
Have you played a show?

614
00:35:54,461 --> 00:35:59,011
We've played one show, without Loca, unfortunately, but this was in Prague,

615
00:36:00,011 --> 00:36:04,124
a side event, a Satoshi Rokomoto event, where we played some Nirvana covers.

616
00:36:04,754 --> 00:36:08,414
And we plan to do more of it, so we'll see, we'll see what happens.

617
00:36:08,994 --> 00:36:09,324
Okay.

618
00:36:09,414 --> 00:36:11,344
Wait, what instrument does Samson play?

619
00:36:11,733 --> 00:36:12,233
Guitar.

620
00:36:13,336 --> 00:36:13,756
Okay.

621
00:36:14,126 --> 00:36:14,576
All right.

622
00:36:14,706 --> 00:36:15,086
Yeah?

623
00:36:15,456 --> 00:36:17,236
I mean, there, there are some three chord songs.

624
00:36:17,236 --> 00:36:17,876
That's for sure.

625
00:36:22,981 --> 00:36:24,821
Those aren't very high expectations.

626
00:36:25,407 --> 00:36:26,777
I mean, I'm going to have to see the tape.

627
00:36:26,857 --> 00:36:28,367
Listen, we, I like proof of work.

628
00:36:28,417 --> 00:36:29,747
Like show me the tape.

629
00:36:29,777 --> 00:36:30,337
I want to see it.

630
00:36:30,972 --> 00:36:31,912
Yeah, yeah, it's coming.

631
00:36:32,222 --> 00:36:33,742
You'll never have to wait a little while.

632
00:36:33,832 --> 00:36:34,102
Yeah.

633
00:36:35,357 --> 00:36:37,007
Well, now I have high expectations.

634
00:36:41,152 --> 00:36:41,612
Yeah.

635
00:36:42,532 --> 00:36:43,402
Setting the bar.

636
00:36:44,122 --> 00:36:46,152
Luke, do you have any questions for Cory?

637
00:36:47,603 --> 00:36:51,943
Yeah, Cory, uh, yeah, awesome to, uh, talk about all these fun conferences

638
00:36:51,953 --> 00:36:54,113
and everything coming up with the year.

639
00:36:54,223 --> 00:36:56,823
What about the immediate term?

640
00:36:56,823 --> 00:36:59,603
I mean, we've got all this stuff coming up, the halving

641
00:36:59,613 --> 00:37:02,493
and the ETFs going on here.

642
00:37:02,743 --> 00:37:06,283
What's your feeling of the vibe for Bitcoin right now?

643
00:37:06,443 --> 00:37:07,643
Everyone's pretty optimistic.

644
00:37:07,643 --> 00:37:08,253
How are you feeling?

645
00:37:08,677 --> 00:37:12,267
Yeah, well, I think what's interesting and we kind of touched on it a little

646
00:37:12,267 --> 00:37:17,287
bit, but I think what's going on is, you know, the top of funnel for

647
00:37:17,287 --> 00:37:19,587
Bitcoin used to be Bitcoin, right?

648
00:37:19,597 --> 00:37:23,917
That's kind of how it was back in 2010, 11 to 16.

649
00:37:24,462 --> 00:37:27,767
I, I put out a, a tweet a couple weeks ago that I've been kind of talking

650
00:37:27,767 --> 00:37:31,277
about, and it's actually made it into our new investor presentation as well,

651
00:37:31,307 --> 00:37:32,597
just like a screenshot of the tweet.

652
00:37:32,597 --> 00:37:35,477
And it was basically kind of laying out that the top of funnel for

653
00:37:35,627 --> 00:37:37,907
Bitcoin was Bitcoin from, you know.

654
00:37:38,217 --> 00:37:43,977
2010 to 2016, and then because of the ICO boom and all the shitcoin VC money,

655
00:37:44,387 --> 00:37:50,017
the top of funnel for Bitcoin was shitcoins from 2017 to 2023, basically.

656
00:37:50,687 --> 00:37:53,927
And with the launch of the ETFs, the predominant top of funnel

657
00:37:53,927 --> 00:37:55,537
for Bitcoin now is Bitcoin.

658
00:37:56,177 --> 00:37:59,877
It's a slightly inferior sort of Bitcoin, but it's not bad.

659
00:38:00,472 --> 00:38:05,252
And they are, you know, broadly marketing things that are true about Bitcoin.

660
00:38:05,822 --> 00:38:08,592
If anything, they're just marketing kind of a subset of what's true

661
00:38:08,592 --> 00:38:11,972
about Bitcoin, but there are, there aren't any broad lies.

662
00:38:12,577 --> 00:38:16,797
Or false narratives being promulgated by the Van X and the Bitwise and the

663
00:38:16,837 --> 00:38:19,067
Fidelities and Blackrocks and Invesco.

664
00:38:19,067 --> 00:38:21,827
Like they're saying true things about Bitcoin, um, with

665
00:38:21,827 --> 00:38:23,527
a slightly inferior product.

666
00:38:24,057 --> 00:38:29,912
That's a dream for Bitcoiners because it's like, thanks for the hundreds

667
00:38:29,912 --> 00:38:31,692
of millions of dollars of ad spend.

668
00:38:32,342 --> 00:38:36,492
And all we have to do is like, as people get more into it, they start

669
00:38:36,532 --> 00:38:43,452
learning about it and we have the data that shows the more you buy,

670
00:38:43,722 --> 00:38:45,522
the more you prefer self custody.

671
00:38:46,295 --> 00:38:49,415
I thought one of the most genuinely bullish things that I've seen in the last

672
00:38:49,945 --> 00:38:54,385
few days was that BTC Sessions YouTube channel is just blowing up, over 100,

673
00:38:54,385 --> 00:38:55,715
000 subscribers, something like this.

674
00:38:56,230 --> 00:39:01,150
And he's like the guy guiding people into self custody and it's

675
00:39:01,150 --> 00:39:04,590
just fantastic to see that because it's like a real signal, right?

676
00:39:04,620 --> 00:39:07,630
It really does seem like people are going that direction, right?

677
00:39:08,005 --> 00:39:08,555
Absolutely.

678
00:39:08,555 --> 00:39:08,745
Yeah.

679
00:39:08,745 --> 00:39:12,435
I mean, it's, it's all the, all the Bitcoin channels are kind of exploding

680
00:39:12,535 --> 00:39:14,645
since January, as you can imagine.

681
00:39:16,110 --> 00:39:18,940
And it's worth putting out better content and paying more

682
00:39:18,940 --> 00:39:20,820
attention to like your VSEO.

683
00:39:20,890 --> 00:39:24,270
So, you know, it's probably not happening just by accident to Ben, even though

684
00:39:24,270 --> 00:39:27,940
he's saying that, but my guess is he's doing a few smarter things and maybe

685
00:39:27,940 --> 00:39:31,310
paying a contractor to do a little bit better job with the, you know, the

686
00:39:31,310 --> 00:39:35,010
VSEO or the thumbnails or whatever, you know, like you kind of improve things

687
00:39:35,010 --> 00:39:36,690
when the returns to improving it.

688
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:40,160
All of these things are bigger, which they are in a bull market.

689
00:39:40,650 --> 00:39:43,990
So we're putting more into ad spend, we're putting more into VSEO, we're hiring more

690
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:45,750
people on the marketing and content side.

691
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:48,900
And you do that because the returns are greater.

692
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:50,910
And so everything's exploding at the same time.

693
00:39:50,910 --> 00:39:54,630
I mean, we went from, I mean, we probably averaged 30 to 40k

694
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:56,330
a month on ad spend in 2023.

695
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:03,370
And we're doing like over 600k a month now, right?

696
00:40:03,370 --> 00:40:04,620
So we 20x our ad spend.

697
00:40:05,905 --> 00:40:06,405
Holy.

698
00:40:06,860 --> 00:40:09,220
and that's the type of thing you do because the returns are much,

699
00:40:09,220 --> 00:40:13,920
much better when other people are kind of helping you market things

700
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:15,330
and the price is doing its thing.

701
00:40:15,340 --> 00:40:16,710
Like it's, that's when you spend.

702
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:17,380
That makes sense.

703
00:40:17,939 --> 00:40:20,369
this is where everything is good for Bitcoin comes in, right?

704
00:40:20,399 --> 00:40:25,289
So like we, we all help all the Bitcoin ads, help all the Bitcoin

705
00:40:25,289 --> 00:40:30,569
companies like, uh, and the, and Bitcoiners and everything we do.

706
00:40:30,569 --> 00:40:32,549
If we're awesome to one another, we help Bitcoin.

707
00:40:32,909 --> 00:40:34,889
Like, uh, everything's connected here.

708
00:40:35,219 --> 00:40:38,639
It's such a, that's the real magic where the real magic is.

709
00:40:38,639 --> 00:40:39,419
I, I think,

710
00:40:40,049 --> 00:40:41,149
Yeah, totally agree.

711
00:40:41,759 --> 00:40:48,599
So, yeah, so back on like, what do the stats show, in the history of Svan,

712
00:40:48,939 --> 00:40:52,939
about half of the people have left their coins in custody and half have

713
00:40:52,959 --> 00:40:57,889
taken self custody, but the people taking, the half that are taking self

714
00:40:57,889 --> 00:40:59,699
custody is 83 percent of the coins.

715
00:41:00,452 --> 00:41:00,872
whoa.

716
00:41:00,937 --> 00:41:04,607
the more you buy, the more you take self custody because it's worth it.

717
00:41:04,717 --> 00:41:07,697
It's worth it to figure out how to do it and what you want your setup to be.

718
00:41:07,697 --> 00:41:12,477
And, you know, for, for some nutball psycho Bitcoin lady to teach her

719
00:41:12,477 --> 00:41:15,537
husband about self custody and figure out the inheritance thing with their

720
00:41:15,537 --> 00:41:19,757
lawyer or whatever it is, you know, uh, you do that once you get over

721
00:41:19,807 --> 00:41:21,557
an amount that's meaningful to you.

722
00:41:22,567 --> 00:41:24,307
Um, and it's the same thing with the ETFs.

723
00:41:24,307 --> 00:41:28,387
Like, of course, once you get orange pilled enough, the vast majority of

724
00:41:28,407 --> 00:41:31,047
people will be like, Oh, you know what?

725
00:41:31,057 --> 00:41:32,747
Maybe I actually want the real thing.

726
00:41:32,787 --> 00:41:34,977
And maybe I only want to pay once instead of every year.

727
00:41:35,533 --> 00:41:35,963
Yeah.

728
00:41:36,464 --> 00:41:40,214
So it's, it's just a great, a great top of funnel for, for Bitcoin.

729
00:41:40,544 --> 00:41:43,644
I've been talking about what I've been calling the ETF multiplier,

730
00:41:43,714 --> 00:41:45,994
and I don't know if it's the right term for it, but basically the

731
00:41:45,994 --> 00:41:50,654
concept is however much capital flows into the ETFs because they exist.

732
00:41:52,219 --> 00:41:55,199
Because the ETFs exist with all their advertising and the stamp of

733
00:41:55,199 --> 00:42:00,199
approval and everything, another 5 to 10x more capital is flowing into

734
00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:02,809
Bitcoin, even outside of the ETF flows,

735
00:42:03,389 --> 00:42:03,829
Yeah.

736
00:42:04,329 --> 00:42:07,279
and will over the rest of the decade, because the ETFs exist.

737
00:42:07,499 --> 00:42:12,179
So it's incremental on top of what's going into the ETFs, because

738
00:42:12,179 --> 00:42:16,379
they exist, and because Larry and Abby have said Bitcoin's okay.

739
00:42:16,861 --> 00:42:17,324
Yeah.

740
00:42:17,324 --> 00:42:18,814
And on top of that, you have the halving.

741
00:42:18,854 --> 00:42:22,134
So you have like limited supply meet unlimited demand

742
00:42:22,414 --> 00:42:24,154
at some point, which is just

743
00:42:24,279 --> 00:42:24,619
Yeah.

744
00:42:25,249 --> 00:42:25,689
Yeah.

745
00:42:25,799 --> 00:42:30,139
And, you know, I think, you know, price is set at the margin.

746
00:42:30,139 --> 00:42:31,759
So that has, that has a big effect.

747
00:42:32,169 --> 00:42:32,919
Absolutely.

748
00:42:32,979 --> 00:42:35,289
You know, kind of like new supply that's coming on.

749
00:42:35,379 --> 00:42:40,999
Obviously I've been like a bit of a seller of the coins on exchanges thing because

750
00:42:40,999 --> 00:42:46,539
it's gotten so much dramatically easier to get coins in and out of cold storage.

751
00:42:47,019 --> 00:42:51,029
And so I just, I think that that metric is probably, uh, overused

752
00:42:51,029 --> 00:42:53,559
and, you know, shouldn't be relied on for really anything.

753
00:42:54,223 --> 00:42:57,633
you know, cause all these, all these custodians, even they, they can easily

754
00:42:57,633 --> 00:43:00,963
shuttle coins in a few seconds, you know, back and forth between cold and hot.

755
00:43:01,053 --> 00:43:03,303
So it's just, it doesn't mean what it used to.

756
00:43:04,078 --> 00:43:07,348
but nevertheless, I think if you look at like huddle waves and things like

757
00:43:07,348 --> 00:43:11,408
that, it's clear that a preponderance of these damn coins ain't moving.

758
00:43:11,488 --> 00:43:16,188
You know, and we'll see if there's ever, you know, I think, uh, you

759
00:43:16,188 --> 00:43:18,928
know, one God candle ain't cool.

760
00:43:18,928 --> 00:43:19,618
You know, what's cool?

761
00:43:19,618 --> 00:43:20,788
10 God candles.

762
00:43:22,288 --> 00:43:25,678
When we see 10 God candles over the course of a few weeks, you know, then

763
00:43:25,678 --> 00:43:27,628
we'll see, we'll see what people do.

764
00:43:28,298 --> 00:43:30,148
How would you define a God candle?

765
00:43:30,858 --> 00:43:35,498
Uh, I mean, broadly, we're just talking about a 10, 000 move in a day and, you

766
00:43:35,498 --> 00:43:37,468
know, that's, we've never seen it before.

767
00:43:37,508 --> 00:43:39,428
So that'll be the first God candle when it happens.

768
00:43:39,991 --> 00:43:44,111
but once it happens once and the price is going up, like, you know, that's,

769
00:43:44,281 --> 00:43:49,401
that's going to be a lot easier to achieve going from 120 to 130 is a lot

770
00:43:49,401 --> 00:43:51,171
easier than going from like 40 to 50.

771
00:43:52,191 --> 00:43:54,471
So I expect lots of them once they start.

772
00:43:55,406 --> 00:43:57,086
What is the biggest candle we've seen?

773
00:43:57,566 --> 00:44:01,236
Because we've definitely seen thousands, multiple thousands.

774
00:44:01,586 --> 00:44:05,516
We haven't seen 10, 000, but yeah, three, four or five?

775
00:44:05,961 --> 00:44:10,641
what's the biggest upward move in percentage terms or in dollar terms in a

776
00:44:10,641 --> 00:44:13,351
24 hour period, I guess, is the question.

777
00:44:13,776 --> 00:44:14,166
I don't know.

778
00:44:15,135 --> 00:44:15,905
I guess we'll see.

779
00:44:16,505 --> 00:44:17,975
We'll have to figure it out.

780
00:44:18,205 --> 00:44:22,415
But the funniest thing I think is people who think that Bitcoin will go to

781
00:44:22,445 --> 00:44:25,385
100, 000 and then And then drop again.

782
00:44:26,122 --> 00:44:26,642
Why?

783
00:44:28,122 --> 00:44:31,422
It's like, is everyone in silent agreement that, okay, we hit

784
00:44:31,462 --> 00:44:32,662
a hundred K, we have to sell.

785
00:44:33,252 --> 00:44:34,982
Like that's not how markets work.

786
00:44:34,982 --> 00:44:35,292
Right.

787
00:44:36,862 --> 00:44:37,762
As far as I know.

788
00:44:38,426 --> 00:44:39,126
Do you remember?

789
00:44:39,479 --> 00:44:42,109
Yeah, there was like a, I totally remember this.

790
00:44:42,109 --> 00:44:44,749
Actually, it was October 25th, 2019.

791
00:44:44,929 --> 00:44:51,769
And it was, uh, Jinping, open support for blockchain technology.

792
00:44:51,769 --> 00:44:52,359
Remember that?

793
00:44:52,409 --> 00:44:54,349
Ripped up like 40 percent in a day.

794
00:44:54,694 --> 00:45:00,454
It went from, it went from 7 7 3 6 1 to 10,370 in a short span

795
00:45:00,454 --> 00:45:04,474
of some hours, registering a gain of 42% from its daily low.

796
00:45:05,673 --> 00:45:06,233
Whoa.

797
00:45:06,823 --> 00:45:08,893
It was October, 2019.

798
00:45:09,893 --> 00:45:10,173
Yeah.

799
00:45:10,193 --> 00:45:10,703
Percentage.

800
00:45:10,703 --> 00:45:10,843
Right.

801
00:45:10,873 --> 00:45:12,883
But it's also quite a few thousand.

802
00:45:13,648 --> 00:45:19,162
So, the definition of a gold candle is in dollar terms and not in percent.

803
00:45:19,798 --> 00:45:21,628
Listen, I'm rolling with 10 K for now.

804
00:45:21,628 --> 00:45:23,278
I reserve the right to change it later.

805
00:45:24,348 --> 00:45:29,748
I'm, I'm not calling God can until, until I see a 10 K move in 1 1 24 hour period.

806
00:45:29,748 --> 00:45:30,523
I'm not calling God Gand.

807
00:45:32,043 --> 00:45:34,473
has anyone ever coined the term Satan Candle?

808
00:45:34,603 --> 00:45:35,943
And like, is that a drop?

809
00:45:36,073 --> 00:45:38,293
Is like that a 10, 000 drop?

810
00:45:40,298 --> 00:45:41,868
It would have to be more than 10, 000.

811
00:45:41,878 --> 00:45:42,568
We've seen way worse.

812
00:45:43,883 --> 00:45:45,743
It's 666.

813
00:47:02,695 --> 00:47:07,425
So what are you most optimistic about with the idea that everything is going

814
00:47:07,425 --> 00:47:10,555
to, that Bitcoin is going to ramp up?

815
00:47:11,035 --> 00:47:13,295
What do you think is going to change in the world for

816
00:47:13,295 --> 00:47:14,915
the better when that happens?

817
00:47:15,970 --> 00:47:19,730
I mean, we've, this is, this is the stuff we've been talking about for years.

818
00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:20,120
Right.

819
00:47:23,990 --> 00:47:26,010
so we get to wax philosophical a little bit.

820
00:47:26,100 --> 00:47:33,260
I mean, I, always sort of summarized my views, which are obviously like

821
00:47:33,260 --> 00:47:36,230
cliff notes of cliff notes of everybody else's views from the hive mind.

822
00:47:36,260 --> 00:47:40,230
But, you know, I just see this being this.

823
00:47:40,740 --> 00:47:47,598
It's this incredible coordinating force and mechanism for, for commerce

824
00:47:48,318 --> 00:47:52,629
that leads to peace to a greater degree than we've had before.

825
00:47:52,779 --> 00:47:53,129
Right?

826
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:57,589
So I think I'm really bullish on what happens.

827
00:47:58,944 --> 00:48:02,224
You protect the downside for humanity by having Bitcoin as a store of

828
00:48:02,234 --> 00:48:07,264
value and being an exit opportunity and a check on the tyranny of those

829
00:48:07,264 --> 00:48:08,474
who would abuse the money printer.

830
00:48:08,524 --> 00:48:12,674
So like, that's kind of like, I always think about life in general and business

831
00:48:13,004 --> 00:48:17,072
and Bitcoin and everything about, preventing dramatic moves to the downside.

832
00:48:17,482 --> 00:48:18,222
And then.

833
00:48:18,742 --> 00:48:24,122
Maximizing the number and quality of your call options for good, good upside.

834
00:48:24,362 --> 00:48:24,722
Right.

835
00:48:25,452 --> 00:48:30,482
And so I feel like the store of value thing kind of protects the downside.

836
00:48:30,652 --> 00:48:34,972
And then a lot of the upside, is store value related, but it's

837
00:48:34,972 --> 00:48:36,382
also medium of exchange related.

838
00:48:36,512 --> 00:48:39,942
So it's like once Bitcoin hits a million dollars a coin, and

839
00:48:39,972 --> 00:48:41,982
there are a lot more people with.

840
00:48:42,242 --> 00:48:44,812
You know, substantially all of their net worth in Bitcoin.

841
00:48:44,872 --> 00:48:46,782
That's essentially what they have to spend.

842
00:48:47,342 --> 00:48:52,402
And if it's easier to just spend it than it is to sell it and then spend the fiat,

843
00:48:52,892 --> 00:48:54,482
then they'll just spend the Bitcoin.

844
00:48:54,532 --> 00:48:59,562
And that's, it's demand from the market that causes investment in products

845
00:48:59,562 --> 00:49:01,432
and services to serve that market.

846
00:49:01,982 --> 00:49:04,922
And so this is why the B cashers were all just wrong.

847
00:49:05,962 --> 00:49:10,522
Basic economics and, you know, sorry, a little bit of b school doesn't hurt

848
00:49:10,542 --> 00:49:16,512
sometimes, like, or however you want to learn it, but learn that, that, that

849
00:49:16,512 --> 00:49:20,312
markets generally develop when there are venture scale returns available

850
00:49:20,332 --> 00:49:23,942
for investment in those products and services, and that means that there has

851
00:49:23,942 --> 00:49:27,882
to be demand in the market for that thing, and so it's always going to be kind of

852
00:49:27,882 --> 00:49:34,292
a hobbyist thing, Or a, you know, a, a zealot, bitcoin psychos, you know, trying

853
00:49:34,292 --> 00:49:38,112
to create circular economies or whatever until number goes up dramatically.

854
00:49:38,714 --> 00:49:44,050
and this is because Bitcoin as a store, as a technology for store

855
00:49:44,050 --> 00:49:47,170
of value, objectively, if you understand it, it's the best tool

856
00:49:47,170 --> 00:49:48,690
for the job in the world today.

857
00:49:50,300 --> 00:49:53,920
If you understand all of the different ways that you can do medium of

858
00:49:53,920 --> 00:50:01,505
exchange or remittance or whatever, there are some areas where today

859
00:50:01,585 --> 00:50:05,955
Bitcoin is the best tool for the job, but most of the time it's not.

860
00:50:06,795 --> 00:50:13,515
But it will be when the market demands to spend Bitcoin, and a ton of innovation

861
00:50:13,525 --> 00:50:18,035
happens, and costs come down, and we And we'll keep working along the way

862
00:50:18,065 --> 00:50:21,065
because of the hobbyists and because of the people, like, wanting to be early and

863
00:50:21,065 --> 00:50:23,005
wanting to be first when the market comes.

864
00:50:23,755 --> 00:50:27,325
Someone will get that perfectly and time it perfectly.

865
00:50:27,325 --> 00:50:30,375
And maybe it's some of the lightning companies that exist today, but it

866
00:50:30,385 --> 00:50:35,125
might be somebody that starts in 2026 that starts with a bunch of money.

867
00:50:35,595 --> 00:50:40,695
And a clean cap table and benefits from standing on the shoulders of

868
00:50:40,695 --> 00:50:43,775
giants that have been swinging at this thing for eight years or nine years.

869
00:50:44,345 --> 00:50:48,961
And that's, that's the set of companies that make it, but we

870
00:50:48,961 --> 00:50:50,361
have to be honest with ourselves.

871
00:50:50,411 --> 00:50:51,491
It's like, it's not like.

872
00:50:51,556 --> 00:50:55,166
Sergey at BitRefill is a bad Bitcoiner.

873
00:50:55,166 --> 00:50:58,766
It's that he has a medium of exchange business, like he loves Bitcoin.

874
00:50:58,766 --> 00:51:02,296
He'd much prefer to use only Bitcoin and only offer Bitcoin, but Bitcoin

875
00:51:02,296 --> 00:51:06,366
is not the best tool for the job in all cases for remittance and payments.

876
00:51:07,453 --> 00:51:10,163
So how is Bitcoin doing as a unit of account in your

877
00:51:12,683 --> 00:51:13,913
It's, it's terrible.

878
00:51:13,973 --> 00:51:16,453
Like nothing is really priced in Bitcoin except Bitcoin.

879
00:51:17,933 --> 00:51:19,993
Even shitcoins aren't priced in Bitcoin anymore.

880
00:51:20,403 --> 00:51:24,043
Um, and that will follow after people want to use it for medium of exchange, so.

881
00:51:24,493 --> 00:51:28,013
You know, I, I think I had a pretty aggressive timeline that

882
00:51:28,013 --> 00:51:29,733
I, I'm not moving off of it yet.

883
00:51:29,783 --> 00:51:34,873
I've been saying for a long time, four years now that I thought by 2035, uh,

884
00:51:34,923 --> 00:51:41,843
most goods and services around the world would be priced in sats, not only sats.

885
00:51:42,033 --> 00:51:45,873
It'll be like sats in euros, sats in dollars, sats in yen, sats like, you

886
00:51:45,873 --> 00:51:47,693
know, just like the dual price tag at the.

887
00:51:47,918 --> 00:51:51,488
You know, duty free at the airport or something or in a tourist town.

888
00:51:52,217 --> 00:51:52,767
I don't know.

889
00:51:53,057 --> 00:51:53,627
We'll see.

890
00:51:53,867 --> 00:51:57,447
Things have to move faster than they are now to hit 2035 for

891
00:51:57,717 --> 00:51:59,207
most things being priced in sats.

892
00:52:00,277 --> 00:52:00,917
They're not moving.

893
00:52:01,762 --> 00:52:06,002
They're not moving fast enough for that to happen by 2035, in my view,

894
00:52:06,622 --> 00:52:11,192
but, uh, you know, I like, what's the rush to like, this whole, this whole

895
00:52:11,192 --> 00:52:15,482
thing is going to be, it's going to be 80 years from start to full saturation

896
00:52:15,482 --> 00:52:19,162
anyway, because it's a technological revolution, not a damn tech product.

897
00:52:19,766 --> 00:52:27,276
Yeah, so on a linear timeline, everything you say is true, but then you have

898
00:52:27,276 --> 00:52:31,306
the gradually then suddenly effect, which is not priced in here, right?

899
00:52:31,866 --> 00:52:33,676
It's priced into your argument, I mean.

900
00:52:34,371 --> 00:52:35,861
It's always been suddenly.

901
00:52:36,426 --> 00:52:37,146
That's the thing.

902
00:52:37,216 --> 00:52:41,386
I think it's, it's gradually then suddenly, because it's like, what

903
00:52:41,386 --> 00:52:44,516
this really is, is like a series of technological revolutions,

904
00:52:45,126 --> 00:52:49,226
harnessing power, printing press, telecommunications, and like, none of,

905
00:52:49,366 --> 00:52:52,656
like, Bitcoin couldn't exist without all of these things happening before.

906
00:52:53,116 --> 00:52:54,656
Maybe Bitcoin is the suddenly.

907
00:52:55,601 --> 00:53:00,561
And the suddenly is like the, the, the, the, we've been growing like this

908
00:53:00,641 --> 00:53:04,411
as a species and advancing, and we just started up the S curve a little

909
00:53:04,421 --> 00:53:08,451
bit with the harnessing of power and fossil fuels and the invention

910
00:53:08,451 --> 00:53:10,721
of microchips and the internet.

911
00:53:10,771 --> 00:53:14,431
And like, maybe we're just actually all this advancement that we thought was

912
00:53:14,431 --> 00:53:18,841
going like this the last 200 years was actually still the, the flat part of

913
00:53:18,841 --> 00:53:20,721
the S curve and Bitcoin is the suddenly.

914
00:53:21,331 --> 00:53:25,681
I love that, I love that picture because that's how I feel about this thing

915
00:53:25,721 --> 00:53:30,861
and I think like, now with, you know, us three sitting here on a video call

916
00:53:31,291 --> 00:53:35,101
and you're on the other side of the Atlantic, uh, this wouldn't have been

917
00:53:35,101 --> 00:53:41,691
possible 10 years ago, let alone 5 years ago, like pre Covid, video conferencing

918
00:53:41,691 --> 00:53:48,271
wasn't a thing, not at all in the, like people use it now, like always, it

919
00:53:48,581 --> 00:53:52,901
just wasn't very common pre Covid And this is just a couple of years back.

920
00:53:53,531 --> 00:53:56,581
And social media is getting better and better, and you have Nostr as

921
00:53:56,581 --> 00:53:58,191
an alternative and all this stuff.

922
00:53:58,601 --> 00:54:04,891
Uh, with, uh, ways of reaching and doing things across borders

923
00:54:04,891 --> 00:54:06,541
that just weren't possible before.

924
00:54:07,081 --> 00:54:12,151
And on top of that, you have zaps and, and, uh, you know, LNURLs and

925
00:54:12,151 --> 00:54:16,401
all of these beautiful inventions that really make every single border

926
00:54:16,401 --> 00:54:20,421
on Earth completely obsolete and just a thing of the past already.

927
00:54:21,311 --> 00:54:26,531
Uh, and so, so it's just a matter of time before people figure out that, you know,

928
00:54:27,071 --> 00:54:33,661
doing things consensually and voluntarily is not only better for you and the

929
00:54:33,661 --> 00:54:37,721
person you're dealing with, but better for everyone else and more profitable.

930
00:54:38,221 --> 00:54:42,401
And when you can't take someone's bitcoins because they're in their heads,

931
00:54:42,781 --> 00:54:44,271
and if you kill them, they're lost.

932
00:54:44,736 --> 00:54:47,736
Then you move the shelling point of violence and violence

933
00:54:47,736 --> 00:54:49,076
becomes less profitable.

934
00:54:49,646 --> 00:54:52,736
And this is, this is the prophecy here.

935
00:54:52,756 --> 00:54:54,376
Like, this is how this plays out.

936
00:54:54,936 --> 00:54:59,336
I truly believe that, that we're, we're actually at the starting point

937
00:54:59,346 --> 00:55:03,796
of the gradually then suddenly for humanity and to, to reach next level.

938
00:55:03,826 --> 00:55:06,826
That's, yeah, a beautiful picture.

939
00:55:07,462 --> 00:55:07,792
Yep.

940
00:55:08,022 --> 00:55:09,292
Yeah, absolutely agree.

941
00:55:10,035 --> 00:55:15,843
so I want to just say like, you know, we are just, we're just figuring things out.

942
00:55:15,883 --> 00:55:19,833
And so many, every time that you fix something, you create

943
00:55:19,833 --> 00:55:22,013
a new set of opportunity.

944
00:55:22,063 --> 00:55:23,543
We create a new set of problems.

945
00:55:24,753 --> 00:55:30,183
And opportunities, and ideally if you're broadly as a species moving

946
00:55:30,183 --> 00:55:34,183
in kind of the right direction, uh, the problems should be smaller and

947
00:55:34,183 --> 00:55:35,813
the opportunities should be better.

948
00:55:36,420 --> 00:55:41,380
And I just kind of think that what we're going to do with Bitcoin, the

949
00:55:41,380 --> 00:55:47,660
whole point of this, is that we are going to reduce the set of problems

950
00:55:47,660 --> 00:55:50,980
that we currently have, create a new set of problems that are smaller.

951
00:55:51,925 --> 00:55:55,615
And create opportunities that are bigger and better because

952
00:55:56,025 --> 00:55:59,465
we promote Bitcoin adoption and we as a species adopt Bitcoin.

953
00:56:00,265 --> 00:56:04,585
And that's, that's the best that you can hope for is this, this continual reduction

954
00:56:04,625 --> 00:56:09,815
in the, uh, The intractability and the severity of the problems, like cutting

955
00:56:09,815 --> 00:56:15,195
climate related deaths by 99 percent in 100 years, which is insane, right?

956
00:56:15,195 --> 00:56:18,385
Like, what an achievement as a species, unbelievable.

957
00:56:18,395 --> 00:56:21,055
We all used to fucking die from floods and heat stroke and

958
00:56:21,485 --> 00:56:22,985
freezing in the snow and shit.

959
00:56:22,995 --> 00:56:26,945
And it doesn't happen anymore because we have harnessed energy.

960
00:56:27,285 --> 00:56:30,775
Like, what, what an achievement as a species, uh, and almost

961
00:56:30,805 --> 00:56:34,125
nobody, you know, in most of the world, almost nobody starves.

962
00:56:35,125 --> 00:56:35,495
Right?

963
00:56:35,655 --> 00:56:38,165
And we used to starve a lot, right?

964
00:56:38,195 --> 00:56:39,705
What a, what a great achievement.

965
00:56:40,185 --> 00:56:41,555
Does that mean we've solved everything?

966
00:56:41,555 --> 00:56:43,085
No, but the problems are smaller.

967
00:56:43,675 --> 00:56:47,755
They're the biggest problems that we have today, but they pale in comparison to the

968
00:56:47,755 --> 00:56:49,205
problems that we had a hundred years ago.

969
00:56:49,825 --> 00:56:54,825
And I think that's what it's going to be like, like all the, all the kids under

970
00:56:54,825 --> 00:57:00,435
30 in the year 2020 or 21, 24, a hundred years from now, all the kids under 30.

971
00:57:00,835 --> 00:57:03,775
Are going to think the horrible problems that exist in the world at

972
00:57:03,775 --> 00:57:06,165
the time are like the worst thing.

973
00:57:06,165 --> 00:57:08,835
And they're going to be all like staying up late, smoking weed, talking about

974
00:57:08,835 --> 00:57:12,975
how to like, you know, fix the system and shit, but they just won't have the

975
00:57:12,975 --> 00:57:18,355
context of history to realize like how dramatically better their world is than

976
00:57:18,355 --> 00:57:20,085
our world was a hundred years before.

977
00:57:20,095 --> 00:57:21,345
That's what I hope happens.

978
00:57:22,545 --> 00:57:24,875
But to do that, we need a Bitcoin.

979
00:57:25,975 --> 00:57:28,175
Yeah, that's a beautiful way of summarizing it.

980
00:57:28,315 --> 00:57:36,180
Uh, and it, yeah, aligns very well with, like, this Bitcoin is not the The signal,

981
00:57:36,220 --> 00:57:40,550
but it's the greatest noise remover ever created, so you can find your own signal.

982
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:45,350
And, uh, you know, everything with, all we are searching for

983
00:57:45,390 --> 00:57:47,040
are better problems to have.

984
00:57:47,230 --> 00:57:49,960
That's, that's all you can get, really, because you still have the

985
00:57:49,970 --> 00:57:54,140
problem of death, which is going to be unpleasant, uh, and you try

986
00:57:54,140 --> 00:57:55,840
to avoid it for as long as you can.

987
00:57:56,370 --> 00:58:02,530
And, uh, so, so all we can ever really hope for is better problems to have.

988
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,560
And, uh, that's what Bitcoin provides us with.

989
00:58:06,235 --> 00:58:06,595
Yep.

990
00:58:07,405 --> 00:58:07,805
Yeah.

991
00:58:07,995 --> 00:58:13,155
I always just like to think about, you know, how recent events were.

992
00:58:13,965 --> 00:58:17,405
I think it, it made the rounds on, on Twitter or Facebook or something

993
00:58:17,415 --> 00:58:21,425
a few weeks ago that, uh, President John Tyler's grandson is alive.

994
00:58:22,017 --> 00:58:24,737
That's the 10th president of the United States.

995
00:58:25,317 --> 00:58:27,007
Like, how fucking crazy is that?

996
00:58:27,427 --> 00:58:28,917
I like doing weird shit like that.

997
00:58:28,937 --> 00:58:33,196
Like, I had a grandfather born in 1911, right?

998
00:58:33,386 --> 00:58:36,547
So that's, you know, 113 years?

999
00:58:37,376 --> 00:58:50,436
so if you say like 1911, I can't type 1911, minus 113, that's 1798, right?

1000
00:58:50,436 --> 00:58:52,666
So if you go like from my grandfather's birth.

1001
00:58:53,081 --> 00:58:56,731
Backwards in time by that much, you're in the 1700s.

1002
00:58:57,616 --> 00:58:57,996
Yeah,

1003
00:58:58,341 --> 00:58:59,761
It puts things in perspective.

1004
00:59:00,491 --> 00:59:04,611
You know, I always do this with, uh, you know, Dazed and Confused.

1005
00:59:04,741 --> 00:59:07,671
It's one of my favorite movies from the 90s, you know, because I was

1006
00:59:07,671 --> 00:59:08,821
in high school when it came out.

1007
00:59:08,851 --> 00:59:14,441
And it's like, Dazed and Confused was like a historical artifact, right?

1008
00:59:14,441 --> 00:59:17,511
For us Gen Xers, like you and me, Knut, not the Zoomers or

1009
00:59:17,511 --> 00:59:19,251
Millennials or whatever Luke is.

1010
00:59:21,831 --> 00:59:25,241
You know, that was something about a time way before us.

1011
00:59:26,111 --> 00:59:28,511
But it was actually about the last day of school in 1976.

1012
00:59:29,191 --> 00:59:30,501
It was only 17 years later.

1013
00:59:31,496 --> 00:59:32,066
yeah, yeah.

1014
00:59:32,451 --> 00:59:37,526
And now it's been 31 years since Dazed and Confused came out.

1015
00:59:38,358 --> 00:59:38,748
Yeah.

1016
00:59:38,788 --> 00:59:40,898
And that's, I think about that all the time.

1017
00:59:40,898 --> 00:59:44,378
Like when I grew up and you know, the, you know, the grunge era, which we

1018
00:59:44,378 --> 00:59:48,398
both grew up in and were teenagers and, and loved the music and everything.

1019
00:59:48,678 --> 00:59:50,658
We've been talking about this before.

1020
00:59:51,148 --> 00:59:55,518
Uh, and we thought of, uh, in, in those times we thought of like

1021
00:59:55,518 --> 00:59:58,668
the Beatles and the Rolling Stones and whatnot as ancient history.

1022
00:59:59,338 --> 01:00:04,068
But they were just 20 years before that, and, like, the double amount of

1023
01:00:04,068 --> 01:00:09,718
time has passed since our teenage years to now, so, like, it's just weird.

1024
01:00:10,923 --> 01:00:12,143
this is what happens.

1025
01:00:12,143 --> 01:00:12,493
Yeah.

1026
01:00:12,563 --> 01:00:16,083
Only people that come way after us can really have perspective about us.

1027
01:00:16,813 --> 01:00:17,173
Right.

1028
01:00:17,263 --> 01:00:20,553
And that's, that's why when we, when we think that all these issues are like

1029
01:00:20,623 --> 01:00:24,333
big to us today and seem intractable, it's only because we're trying to

1030
01:00:24,333 --> 01:00:27,783
solve a smaller set of problems than the people had a hundred years ago.

1031
01:00:28,363 --> 01:00:32,043
And so it's the people in the 21 hundreds are going to look back

1032
01:00:32,133 --> 01:00:33,213
and they're going to judge us.

1033
01:00:33,968 --> 01:00:40,378
For not being happy about where we are because, you know, 1924 was so much worse

1034
01:00:40,458 --> 01:00:45,348
than 2024, but in 2124, they're going to look back and they're going to be like

1035
01:00:45,358 --> 01:00:50,118
things and things when you complaining jerks were alive, thinking that everything

1036
01:00:50,298 --> 01:00:55,858
was horrible, you know, it's like, you were just really trying to, you know,

1037
01:00:55,858 --> 01:00:58,818
take advantage of the opportunities, the larger set of opportunities

1038
01:00:58,828 --> 01:01:02,658
that you had, and you were trying to solve this tiny subset of problems.

1039
01:01:03,283 --> 01:01:05,563
That are left over from the shit you already solved.

1040
01:01:05,564 --> 01:01:09,643
They're not going to, they're not going to have any perspective

1041
01:01:09,643 --> 01:01:11,243
about where they are at the time.

1042
01:01:12,398 --> 01:01:12,778
No.

1043
01:01:13,463 --> 01:01:17,023
It's all going to seem just like momentous and insurmountable.

1044
01:01:17,825 --> 01:01:18,095
All right.

1045
01:01:18,095 --> 01:01:19,005
So let's wrap there.

1046
01:01:19,065 --> 01:01:21,165
I'm, I'm Cory, I'm Cory.

1047
01:01:21,215 --> 01:01:26,635
I'm a Bitcoiner, uh, you know, buy Bitcoin from Swan or something like that.

1048
01:01:26,685 --> 01:01:27,395
I don't know, whatever.

1049
01:01:27,395 --> 01:01:28,075
Follow Knut.

1050
01:01:30,530 --> 01:01:32,120
Everything divided by 21 million.

1051
01:01:32,130 --> 01:01:32,930
That's really what matters.

1052
01:01:34,195 --> 01:01:35,445
Thanks so Cory.

1053
01:01:35,890 --> 01:01:36,710
Thank you, Cory.

1054
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:37,800
Great talking to you.

1055
01:01:38,220 --> 01:01:38,700
Yeah, take

1056
01:01:38,730 --> 01:01:40,200
go to Madera, go to Madera.

1057
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:41,740
There

1058
01:01:42,090 --> 01:01:42,880
Screw you guys.

1059
01:01:42,910 --> 01:01:43,910
Cory's going home.

1060
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:44,530
Yeah.

1061
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:45,360
you go.

1062
01:01:45,555 --> 01:01:46,305
Thanks a lot, Cory.

1063
01:01:46,415 --> 01:01:47,025
Take care.

1064
01:01:47,295 --> 01:01:48,655
This has been the Freedom Footprint Show.

1065
01:01:48,665 --> 01:01:49,555
Thanks for listening.

1066
01:01:49,930 --> 01:01:50,560
Thank you all.