Bitcoin and the Nature of Reality with Jeff Booth - FFS #67

1
00:00:00,045 --> 00:00:02,712
it's the biggest discovery humans have ever found.

2
00:00:03,203 --> 00:00:07,499
it's so big that it doesn't feel like that to people that think it's a Ponzi scheme.

3
00:00:07,499 --> 00:00:09,871
It doesn't feel like that from their own belief system.

4
00:00:10,129 --> 00:00:14,383
But if it changes that belief, so all productivity forevermore flows to all

5
00:00:14,388 --> 00:00:19,244
of society and everyone in the world has an equal opportunity to actually allow

6
00:00:19,244 --> 00:00:23,244
that to happen and create more wealth for themselves as it flows to society...

7
00:00:24,117 --> 00:00:24,917
it's a pretty big deal.

8
00:00:25,319 --> 00:00:28,409
Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show with Knut Svanholm

9
00:00:28,419 --> 00:00:30,179
and me, Luke the Pseudo Finn.

10
00:00:30,239 --> 00:00:34,509
And today we're joined by Jeff Booth, author of The Price of Tomorrow and

11
00:00:34,509 --> 00:00:36,649
who otherwise needs no introduction.

12
00:00:37,019 --> 00:00:38,489
It's the second time on the podcast.

13
00:00:38,669 --> 00:00:39,879
So welcome back, Jeff.

14
00:00:39,889 --> 00:00:40,639
Thanks for joining us.

15
00:00:41,399 --> 00:00:41,869
Thanks, Luke.

16
00:00:41,889 --> 00:00:42,599
Great to be here.

17
00:00:42,955 --> 00:00:44,762
Yeah, good to see you, Jeff.

18
00:00:45,209 --> 00:00:51,679
I mean, we've been seeing one another shortly on and off this year, every

19
00:00:51,679 --> 00:00:55,879
here and there and talking every once in a while, but this is the

20
00:00:55,879 --> 00:01:00,429
first time in a long time we've had a proper long format conversation.

21
00:01:00,479 --> 00:01:05,609
So how has your past year been and what have you learned this year?

22
00:01:06,371 --> 00:01:07,761
I hope I'm always learning.

23
00:01:08,181 --> 00:01:15,581
So, uh, but what, I don't know if anything's really new except for just

24
00:01:15,681 --> 00:01:20,641
how, how much more is going on in this ecosystem, how much more, how much.

25
00:01:20,831 --> 00:01:22,111
How much fun I'm having.

26
00:01:22,121 --> 00:01:26,211
How are they, um, when you're spending your time in this ecosystem with

27
00:01:26,211 --> 00:01:31,045
all the entrepreneurs measuring from this, from, from Bitcoin, you don't

28
00:01:31,075 --> 00:01:34,115
see all the negative that's happening around the world, or you can see it.

29
00:01:34,145 --> 00:01:36,535
Like you can, you can agonize, empathize with it.

30
00:01:36,985 --> 00:01:40,155
But it feels like I live a, just a totally different life.

31
00:01:40,555 --> 00:01:45,765
And partly why you want more people to see it, more people to spend more

32
00:01:45,765 --> 00:01:49,645
of their time in Bitcoin, because then they will, they will too.

33
00:01:50,189 --> 00:01:51,079
I totally agree.

34
00:01:51,079 --> 00:01:55,969
It's, it's like, it's like this weird thing that the more you, the more

35
00:01:55,969 --> 00:02:00,889
of yourself you just give away to the community, uh, the more you get

36
00:02:00,899 --> 00:02:02,849
back without, without even trying.

37
00:02:02,859 --> 00:02:06,699
It's, it's just a fantastic, a fantastic space to be in.

38
00:02:07,539 --> 00:02:12,269
Yeah, and if, and again, I also have empathy for people who think

39
00:02:12,269 --> 00:02:13,369
this is going to be stopped.

40
00:02:14,299 --> 00:02:18,129
You're not going to stop, people weren't meant to live in cages, right?

41
00:02:18,149 --> 00:02:23,009
The, uh, the, you're not going to stop a technology that frees them.

42
00:02:23,409 --> 00:02:25,819
Um, and, uh, the, uh.

43
00:02:26,034 --> 00:02:29,024
It is just, and I'm not saying that there's not going to be

44
00:02:29,024 --> 00:02:32,924
a whole bunch of wars against it and what's going to happen.

45
00:02:34,354 --> 00:02:35,784
I expect a long battle.

46
00:02:36,474 --> 00:02:41,214
But You can just tune, you can almost tune it out the more time you spend working,

47
00:02:41,514 --> 00:02:44,014
advancing it, the faster it happens.

48
00:02:44,510 --> 00:02:49,450
To me, it reminds me of, like, the story of the Soviet Union, uh, where,

49
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:55,830
like, just up until the very last day of its existence, everyone took

50
00:02:55,830 --> 00:03:00,500
it for, like, that there was no hope and this was the way things were.

51
00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,180
There was nothing to do about it.

52
00:03:02,630 --> 00:03:05,100
And then all of a sudden, everyone realizes that it

53
00:03:05,100 --> 00:03:06,140
doesn't have to be this way.

54
00:03:06,140 --> 00:03:07,270
We could just not do this.

55
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,040
And it just sort of dissipated very quickly.

56
00:03:11,490 --> 00:03:12,110
Um, yeah.

57
00:03:12,545 --> 00:03:16,445
Do, do you see the same thing playing out with Clown world and, and bitcoin

58
00:03:17,315 --> 00:03:19,445
But I think it happens one person at a time.

59
00:03:19,505 --> 00:03:23,585
Like the, the the point I'm trying to make there, uh, kind of, you are already

60
00:03:23,585 --> 00:03:26,265
living in the future, so am I right?

61
00:03:26,505 --> 00:03:32,135
We are already seeing the front edge of what's happening and we're not going back.

62
00:03:33,085 --> 00:03:38,065
Um, and, and, and, and so as more and more people join, uh, this, and you,

63
00:03:38,185 --> 00:03:43,165
you know this as well as I do, we talk about this over es deep into the night.

64
00:03:47,235 --> 00:03:47,685
Um.

65
00:03:48,255 --> 00:03:52,625
But as people do that, they are nodes in this new system, and the new system

66
00:03:52,625 --> 00:03:56,845
gets stronger, and as the new system gets stronger, the existing system that had

67
00:03:56,865 --> 00:04:01,915
control over you and is capturing all of your thoughts and actions gets weaker.

68
00:04:02,615 --> 00:04:07,795
And so, it's emergent, it happens over time, it's not like a light

69
00:04:07,795 --> 00:04:10,905
switch, and one day we have one system, and one day we have another.

70
00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:16,420
It's, um, it, it's just emergent and we control that, uh, the

71
00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:17,860
speed of that through our actions.

72
00:04:18,563 --> 00:04:19,523
Yeah, absolutely.

73
00:04:19,853 --> 00:04:24,763
So, so that's, that brings us to like, because I, I, I sort of wanted to take

74
00:04:24,763 --> 00:04:29,533
this conversation into the deep stuff, uh, as soon as possible, because I know

75
00:04:29,538 --> 00:04:33,793
we're, we're doing some fun things in, in Madeira this, this coming march.

76
00:04:33,883 --> 00:04:40,093
Uh, you are, uh, organizing half of the last day of the

77
00:04:40,098 --> 00:04:41,383
conference, if I'm correct.

78
00:04:41,593 --> 00:04:41,863
Like

79
00:04:42,008 --> 00:04:48,118
Yeah, so, so the way we organized it is, so we put blocks together, um, that we

80
00:04:48,118 --> 00:04:53,558
could do deep dives, um, and the deep dive block I'm doing is, is, what does

81
00:04:53,658 --> 00:04:55,578
this look like after the transition?

82
00:04:55,758 --> 00:04:58,488
What does the future look like after this transition?

83
00:04:59,046 --> 00:05:04,106
yes, because there's so much to think about there and it's so weird,

84
00:05:04,576 --> 00:05:08,626
like, I don't think we've even scratched the surface of how weird

85
00:05:09,056 --> 00:05:12,246
the world looks like on a Bitcoin standard compared to now and how

86
00:05:12,421 --> 00:05:14,761
Weird, weird, or weird or beautiful.

87
00:05:15,096 --> 00:05:16,806
I mean, weird in a beautiful way,

88
00:05:16,981 --> 00:05:17,711
Yeah, yeah,

89
00:05:17,886 --> 00:05:21,096
like, uh, not, not crazy, weird, but, uh, good, weird.

90
00:05:21,702 --> 00:05:26,322
just the, the thought of of when, when the, when the totals, when

91
00:05:26,322 --> 00:05:27,672
all bitcoins have been mined.

92
00:05:28,602 --> 00:05:33,052
There's no other way than like the, in my mind, most Bitcoin

93
00:05:33,442 --> 00:05:35,062
stacks will shrink over time.

94
00:05:35,062 --> 00:05:35,757
There's just no.

95
00:05:36,442 --> 00:05:37,492
No way around that.

96
00:05:38,012 --> 00:05:42,882
Uh, maybe a select few will go up, but it will be increasingly harder and

97
00:05:42,882 --> 00:05:48,542
harder to have black numbers on your balance sheet at all in Bitcoin terms.

98
00:05:48,882 --> 00:05:50,972
But your purchasing power can still go up.

99
00:05:51,312 --> 00:05:55,852
So this is a thought I had like a couple of years back, but can you see a scenario

100
00:05:55,852 --> 00:06:01,922
where you start a company not to make profit in Bitcoin terms, but to just Uh,

101
00:06:02,212 --> 00:06:08,152
you know, flatten the curve so that the decline of your stack is a bit slower.

102
00:06:08,532 --> 00:06:11,722
So your purchasing power is still going up because you started the business.

103
00:06:12,362 --> 00:06:16,542
Uh, but, but your Bitcoin stack is never, never increasing.

104
00:06:16,542 --> 00:06:18,152
It's just decreasing at a slower rate.

105
00:06:18,697 --> 00:06:18,967
yeah.

106
00:06:18,967 --> 00:06:23,807
I think, I think the, that concept is so foreign to people, um, that,

107
00:06:24,075 --> 00:06:27,355
you'd have to walk them through a little bit closer, right?

108
00:06:27,355 --> 00:06:29,225
And so walk them through the steps that get there.

109
00:06:30,125 --> 00:06:34,335
And, and by the way, that, that concept isn't foreign to me at

110
00:06:34,335 --> 00:06:39,045
all, because otherwise I wouldn't have started a venture capital fund

111
00:06:39,125 --> 00:06:41,215
investing on top of Bitcoin companies.

112
00:06:41,490 --> 00:06:44,600
That are actually doing what you just described, right?

113
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,540
So, so let's, so let's walk through the why that's true.

114
00:06:48,970 --> 00:06:52,210
Um, and, uh, and, and prices.

115
00:06:52,540 --> 00:06:55,590
So in economics, prices fall to the marginal cost of production.

116
00:06:56,737 --> 00:07:00,207
the whole thesis of my book is, is that cannot be stopped.

117
00:07:00,267 --> 00:07:04,117
Prices in a, in a free market, prices fall to the marginal cost of production.

118
00:07:04,556 --> 00:07:08,536
Because of the free market and technology, and we wouldn't use

119
00:07:08,566 --> 00:07:11,596
things that are worse for us, right?

120
00:07:11,826 --> 00:07:15,926
So we choose the things that are better and entrepreneurs deliver

121
00:07:15,926 --> 00:07:19,996
us and companies deliver us better things than it was there previously.

122
00:07:20,316 --> 00:07:22,866
So you can see prices fall to the marginal cost of production.

123
00:07:23,326 --> 00:07:26,581
Now, can I, so I'm just, um, Kind of breaking this out.

124
00:07:27,371 --> 00:07:30,271
Um, so could a government stop that?

125
00:07:31,001 --> 00:07:32,051
For a while they can.

126
00:07:32,361 --> 00:07:37,871
They can regulate an industry and they can say, we're not innovating here, right?

127
00:07:37,901 --> 00:07:42,981
And then costs go up to, to the population and you concentrate control.

128
00:07:43,261 --> 00:07:45,331
That's what our food systems look like today.

129
00:07:45,691 --> 00:07:47,801
That's what our medical systems look like today.

130
00:07:48,081 --> 00:07:50,891
That's what a whole bunch of, that's what our money systems look like today.

131
00:07:51,131 --> 00:07:53,401
So you can slow it down, right?

132
00:07:53,551 --> 00:07:54,571
By, by doing that.

133
00:07:54,981 --> 00:07:56,871
But the competition still continues.

134
00:07:57,281 --> 00:08:00,711
And the competition still continues elsewhere in the world, and then

135
00:08:00,711 --> 00:08:06,601
your regulated monopoly turns into a giant eyesore on your, on and

136
00:08:06,601 --> 00:08:07,901
gets killed from somewhere else.

137
00:08:08,671 --> 00:08:12,431
Um, so, so again, over a long enough time horizon, prices fall

138
00:08:12,431 --> 00:08:13,741
to the marginal cost of production.

139
00:08:14,381 --> 00:08:14,571
Okay.

140
00:08:14,571 --> 00:08:15,641
So stay there.

141
00:08:16,151 --> 00:08:18,261
Now go to the next concept.

142
00:08:18,951 --> 00:08:21,821
We have exponentially rising productivity, productivity.

143
00:08:22,741 --> 00:08:26,661
And so what, what is the marginal cost of production of a line of code?

144
00:08:27,776 --> 00:08:31,386
Because you use it in your calculator, it's free.

145
00:08:32,276 --> 00:08:37,106
Um, you used to pay for a calculator, now you don't, and that's why.

146
00:08:37,236 --> 00:08:39,876
Now what's the marginal cost of production for a line of code

147
00:08:39,896 --> 00:08:41,426
created by the other lines of code?

148
00:08:42,146 --> 00:08:42,476
Free.

149
00:08:43,116 --> 00:08:48,076
And that's why you'll see AI continuing to give you more and

150
00:08:48,076 --> 00:08:49,796
falling in price the entire time.

151
00:08:50,391 --> 00:08:55,031
The entire time explosion of giving more and more product

152
00:08:55,071 --> 00:08:56,931
productivity, and there's no moat.

153
00:08:57,421 --> 00:08:59,741
Why do you think all the large companies are trying to create

154
00:08:59,741 --> 00:09:01,301
regulation and fear around AI?

155
00:09:01,991 --> 00:09:03,811
Because it's the only way to give them a moat.

156
00:09:04,821 --> 00:09:08,661
And so the fear comes from, the fear comes from a whole bunch of people

157
00:09:08,661 --> 00:09:10,211
that are scared of losing their jobs.

158
00:09:11,161 --> 00:09:14,361
So you can create, Oh, we got to protect this for you.

159
00:09:14,721 --> 00:09:18,781
So we can create a bigger monopoly, but they won't be able to because

160
00:09:18,781 --> 00:09:20,521
prices will continue to fall.

161
00:09:20,521 --> 00:09:25,391
And if you just, if you look at, um, in that free, uh, free market, if you, you

162
00:09:25,391 --> 00:09:30,361
could put all, most of the models on, on your own computer and not even use chat

163
00:09:30,371 --> 00:09:33,481
GPT and never use the internet again.

164
00:09:34,181 --> 00:09:40,411
Um, and have the world history on AI models right now, so you

165
00:09:40,411 --> 00:09:41,761
can see how powerful this is.

166
00:09:42,421 --> 00:09:46,541
Now, as the next step, what about when that moves into machines, which

167
00:09:46,551 --> 00:09:49,678
it will in the next 2, 3, 5 years.

168
00:09:50,048 --> 00:09:55,658
And those machines are capable of having what you're seeing 10 times,

169
00:09:55,688 --> 00:09:57,998
100 times, which HGPT can do today.

170
00:09:59,088 --> 00:10:00,608
In a machine that can do everything.

171
00:10:01,388 --> 00:10:03,208
So you have to ask these questions, right?

172
00:10:03,398 --> 00:10:06,288
Marginal cost of production continues to fall exponentially.

173
00:10:07,008 --> 00:10:12,034
Now, as a result of those two things, then prices should be

174
00:10:12,034 --> 00:10:14,874
falling to free everywhere.

175
00:10:14,884 --> 00:10:19,074
We wouldn't need all the, all the useless jobs and we wouldn't, if we'd, If we'd

176
00:10:19,154 --> 00:10:23,114
lost our job, we wouldn't need the government handouts to pay us more to keep

177
00:10:23,114 --> 00:10:28,184
prices higher, because things, just like you don't have to pay for oxygen today,

178
00:10:28,594 --> 00:10:34,054
prices would continue to fall by the, by the free market at an exponential rate.

179
00:10:35,164 --> 00:10:38,404
Now, then you have to ask, what could measure that?

180
00:10:39,350 --> 00:10:41,380
And the only thing that could measure that.

181
00:10:41,380 --> 00:10:45,550
Bitcoin is a system outside of the existing system without counterparty

182
00:10:45,550 --> 00:10:52,920
risk that is 21 million capped and can't be centralized or controlled.

183
00:10:54,020 --> 00:10:56,876
So you come to a pretty easy thesis, right?

184
00:10:56,946 --> 00:11:00,016
You come to a pretty easy thing to understand.

185
00:11:00,446 --> 00:11:03,806
The thing that would be showing me prices falling to the marginal cost of

186
00:11:03,806 --> 00:11:09,279
production is Bitcoin and everything else that people are measuring in the world.

187
00:11:09,759 --> 00:11:15,219
is describing a manipulated world because it has to manipulate to make prices

188
00:11:15,219 --> 00:11:17,119
rise in the system we're talking about.

189
00:11:17,889 --> 00:11:19,329
Now you have to go to the next step.

190
00:11:20,699 --> 00:11:25,159
Only, and so that's where I spent a ton of time, if Bitcoin

191
00:11:25,479 --> 00:11:27,419
stays decentralized and secure.

192
00:11:28,474 --> 00:11:33,634
What we just described is inevitable, no matter what will happen, no matter what.

193
00:11:33,634 --> 00:11:37,294
It might take a longer time horizon, people might be confused, people

194
00:11:37,294 --> 00:11:41,804
might price from a fiat, they might think their house is going up because

195
00:11:41,804 --> 00:11:45,344
they're measuring in fiat, they might think bitcoin is going up because

196
00:11:45,344 --> 00:11:49,724
they're measuring bitcoin in fiat, um, but what is actually happening

197
00:11:49,724 --> 00:11:54,404
is all prices are falling as I just described, everything, which means

198
00:11:54,404 --> 00:11:56,554
purchasing power is going up forever.

199
00:11:57,090 --> 00:12:03,272
if you're measuring in Bitcoin and, and so you, I spent a ton of time trying to

200
00:12:03,272 --> 00:12:07,672
disprove my thesis, what I just described there, how could you kill Bitcoin?

201
00:12:07,992 --> 00:12:08,932
What would it look like?

202
00:12:09,482 --> 00:12:14,342
And I know you did, you have to Knut, I know you have to Luke, um, and I

203
00:12:14,342 --> 00:12:20,642
know you Most hardcore bitcoiner maxis, the psychopaths they call us, would

204
00:12:21,822 --> 00:12:24,792
be psychopaths because they've already done the work that they understand

205
00:12:24,792 --> 00:12:26,232
this is not going to be centralized.

206
00:12:26,362 --> 00:12:27,322
It's not going to be secure.

207
00:12:27,342 --> 00:12:33,302
There's no way that it's going to change over 21 million coins.

208
00:12:34,012 --> 00:12:40,467
And so So you'd have to expect in this, and as as I did, you'd have to

209
00:12:40,467 --> 00:12:45,807
expect a war of information coming at Bitcoin to try to kill what I just said.

210
00:12:46,417 --> 00:12:51,887
'cause the system, it steals the power un it's the theft of

211
00:12:51,887 --> 00:12:55,187
the, of the productivity people.

212
00:12:55,217 --> 00:12:58,897
'cause people sitting on top of the existing system are effectively

213
00:12:59,107 --> 00:13:00,997
stealing the productivity of the world.

214
00:13:01,967 --> 00:13:04,877
And if you're a bigger co company, if you're an AI company.

215
00:13:05,102 --> 00:13:06,362
You're stealing it faster.

216
00:13:07,616 --> 00:13:11,396
You're, you're literally stealing out of the existing system that because

217
00:13:11,396 --> 00:13:13,616
inflation is theft, we don't vote for it.

218
00:13:13,616 --> 00:13:14,996
There is no free market.

219
00:13:15,056 --> 00:13:17,876
And when you can't vote for things that are that important in your

220
00:13:17,876 --> 00:13:19,616
life, there is donor democracy.

221
00:13:19,621 --> 00:13:23,266
There is no democracy when you can't, uh, when you can't vote for things

222
00:13:23,266 --> 00:13:24,496
that are that important in your life.

223
00:13:25,356 --> 00:13:28,626
So it's based on a theft because inflation is wage deflation.

224
00:13:29,398 --> 00:13:30,538
It is literally.

225
00:13:32,803 --> 00:13:36,813
And they're voting for more of it, because they don't know that money is so broken.

226
00:13:37,243 --> 00:13:40,443
It's concentrating in the biggest companies, biggest corporations in the

227
00:13:40,443 --> 00:13:44,983
world, and they're using regulation to make it, to make that happen faster.

228
00:13:45,373 --> 00:13:48,313
And they're combining with governments, technology companies

229
00:13:48,313 --> 00:13:52,003
are combining with governments to surveil everything and make it faster.

230
00:13:52,503 --> 00:13:57,579
And so, what would a system that has that much power at the top say

231
00:13:57,579 --> 00:14:00,269
about a system that takes it away and gives it back to the people?

232
00:14:00,939 --> 00:14:03,429
You'd have to expect every war on the planet, really.

233
00:14:03,429 --> 00:14:09,029
You'd have to expect, and you'd have to expect everything coming at Bitcoin, which

234
00:14:09,129 --> 00:14:15,079
I do, and which I realize There's nothing they're going to do, nothing that they

235
00:14:15,079 --> 00:14:20,229
can do, because we, because through our nodes, they would have to find all of us

236
00:14:20,329 --> 00:14:25,009
individually, and they might find me, they might find you, but they're not going to

237
00:14:25,009 --> 00:14:29,841
find hundreds of thousands of nodes spread around the world, connecting this thing

238
00:14:29,841 --> 00:14:33,951
and people in the free market driving it, plus the incentive that it gains

239
00:14:33,951 --> 00:14:38,033
now on the other side, forget the fear of it's Uh, what that would look like.

240
00:14:38,033 --> 00:14:42,103
The incentive on the side, other side driving it drives a massive

241
00:14:42,103 --> 00:14:47,093
incentive in favor of that productivity flowing to society in the form of

242
00:14:47,098 --> 00:14:49,103
lower prices and a free market.

243
00:14:49,493 --> 00:14:54,042
And you're just not gonna stop that then now to the next step.

244
00:14:54,612 --> 00:14:56,262
That's why I started the ego death.

245
00:14:56,762 --> 00:14:57,152
Right.

246
00:14:57,152 --> 00:14:59,942
To your thesis, what you just, what you just said.

247
00:15:00,652 --> 00:15:05,222
Um, what would, what would the world look like and what would, um.

248
00:15:05,812 --> 00:15:12,342
If you're investing in companies that are creating more Bitcoin Bitcoin by, um, on

249
00:15:12,342 --> 00:15:17,242
top of a layer that was pricing everything else, the only thing in the world that

250
00:15:17,242 --> 00:15:21,722
could price everything else, then, then those companies creating Bitcoin

251
00:15:22,032 --> 00:15:28,628
returns by providing value would you have venture capital returns if you were

252
00:15:28,668 --> 00:15:31,325
good at that on top of Bitcoin, right?

253
00:15:31,325 --> 00:15:35,385
Because the companies are actually delivering way more people through

254
00:15:35,385 --> 00:15:39,445
their, through the good, the things that they're delivering, they're delivering

255
00:15:39,685 --> 00:15:42,265
way more people to the network and they're getting paid in Bitcoin.

256
00:15:42,887 --> 00:15:45,827
and, and so then what would that look like?

257
00:15:46,607 --> 00:15:50,887
That would look like a lot of those companies over time would have to

258
00:15:51,247 --> 00:15:54,457
continually innovate because the first thing that they delivered.

259
00:15:54,992 --> 00:15:57,262
Would then go to free, right?

260
00:15:57,932 --> 00:16:00,672
And then they would have to be in service of the cut because other

261
00:16:00,672 --> 00:16:01,722
people would compete with them.

262
00:16:01,912 --> 00:16:04,392
Like, you look at wallets today, you can't get paid on a wallet.

263
00:16:04,612 --> 00:16:05,052
They're free.

264
00:16:06,262 --> 00:16:08,032
So you have to continually innovate.

265
00:16:08,182 --> 00:16:10,712
So, so then what would it look like if you're.

266
00:16:10,957 --> 00:16:14,547
Uh, uh, a venture capital in that type of company versus a venture

267
00:16:14,547 --> 00:16:17,807
capital in, in a fiat company.

268
00:16:17,807 --> 00:16:21,577
In a fiat company, you can play all these stupid games and take control

269
00:16:21,577 --> 00:16:22,967
from the founder and everything else.

270
00:16:23,438 --> 00:16:27,447
in this type of system, You have to love the people you're working

271
00:16:27,447 --> 00:16:30,447
with because you're gonna be working with them for a long time.

272
00:16:30,627 --> 00:16:32,997
You, and they're, you're, they're gonna be changing their business.

273
00:16:33,237 --> 00:16:35,847
They're gonna be, uh, it iterating on the next thing.

274
00:16:36,327 --> 00:16:39,267
And so you have to think totally different about being a venture

275
00:16:39,267 --> 00:16:41,787
capital company inside of this system.

276
00:16:42,820 --> 00:16:45,980
These are not well understood, uh, processes.

277
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:48,560
These are not well understood by most of the market.

278
00:16:48,570 --> 00:16:51,660
I would say these aren't really well understood by even most Bitcoiners.

279
00:16:53,023 --> 00:16:58,403
that they'll understand what would an honest system look like, right?

280
00:16:58,453 --> 00:17:03,233
They'll understand the high level because it favors cooperation, but they wouldn't,

281
00:17:03,303 --> 00:17:06,773
they wouldn't go through all of the details of how it favors cooperation.

282
00:17:06,773 --> 00:17:11,023
And this is what I described as one of the details and how it favors cooperation.

283
00:17:11,883 --> 00:17:16,123
And that leads us to what you, you already said, of course, it's going

284
00:17:16,123 --> 00:17:20,933
to distribute over time because the only way to gain more Bitcoin is

285
00:17:20,933 --> 00:17:23,453
to provide more value to society.

286
00:17:23,983 --> 00:17:29,273
And that more value to society over time is going to have its marginal

287
00:17:29,273 --> 00:17:30,823
cost of production go to zero.

288
00:17:31,652 --> 00:17:33,032
yeah, it's, it's wonderful.

289
00:17:33,032 --> 00:17:38,762
I've been thinking of the along the same lines, but I can't express this,

290
00:17:39,282 --> 00:17:45,162
express it as eloquently as you, but, uh, but the, um, the thesis, like,

291
00:17:45,302 --> 00:17:47,142
like, I don't know if you saw that talk.

292
00:17:47,142 --> 00:17:51,122
I, I think I did back in Riga last, last year for the first

293
00:17:51,122 --> 00:17:53,098
time, but it's about, how, where.

294
00:17:53,748 --> 00:17:58,888
We Bitcoiners are incentivized to help one another succeed, because this is the

295
00:17:58,928 --> 00:18:04,378
simple pumping our bags thesis, like we, we all want Bitcoin, we all want Bitcoin

296
00:18:04,388 --> 00:18:06,578
to succeed, how do we make that happen?

297
00:18:06,968 --> 00:18:10,988
We, we are awesome to other Bitcoiners, and we give them our time, our

298
00:18:11,008 --> 00:18:12,978
efforts, and our goods and services.

299
00:18:13,208 --> 00:18:17,838
Just because we want to see them succeed for very egotistical reasons,

300
00:18:17,838 --> 00:18:22,628
because that helps pump our bags of like, if number go up, we all win.

301
00:18:23,118 --> 00:18:26,858
And we're also incentivized to help Bitcoin succeed in any way we can.

302
00:18:27,382 --> 00:18:31,932
and we're also on a, on a sound money standard with deflationary money.

303
00:18:32,472 --> 00:18:35,096
We, naturally adopt a lower time preference.

304
00:18:35,316 --> 00:18:35,466
So

305
00:18:35,621 --> 00:18:39,131
Yeah, and just one, one thing I just wanted to tie in, because a lot of

306
00:18:39,141 --> 00:18:43,791
people say deflationary money, you know, it's true if you lose bitcoins, it's a

307
00:18:43,791 --> 00:18:48,901
deflationary money and so, there's this part of that that's true, but mostly it's

308
00:18:49,001 --> 00:18:53,211
just a neutral currency that's measuring, it's a neutral money that's measuring,

309
00:18:53,291 --> 00:18:55,871
that's measuring deflation in society.

310
00:18:56,460 --> 00:18:56,930
yeah, yeah.

311
00:18:56,970 --> 00:18:58,470
Deflationary is the wrong term.

312
00:18:59,370 --> 00:19:00,570
Money with a fixed supply.

313
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,430
That's, that's what we're saying.

314
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:09,240
So, um, uh, on top of this, like you, you incentivize saving rather

315
00:19:09,250 --> 00:19:13,960
than spending, which is quality over quantity, all of that stuff, which

316
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,920
means that we have all the incentives in the world to, to help one another.

317
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:22,405
So I see, uh, Bitcoin companies like in the free market, you have,

318
00:19:22,775 --> 00:19:27,245
or in nature, you have catalytic biological competition, fang and

319
00:19:27,245 --> 00:19:29,805
claw, whoever grabs the most wins.

320
00:19:29,905 --> 00:19:34,615
And then you, uh, the free market is catalytic competition where the, the, the

321
00:19:34,615 --> 00:19:39,555
one who can provide most value to other people wins because they, they get into,

322
00:19:39,645 --> 00:19:42,555
uh, they get to, uh, on top of the market.

323
00:19:42,945 --> 00:19:46,395
Like, uh, that's the free market process, but.

324
00:19:46,590 --> 00:19:50,340
What I see is on a Bitcoin standard, there's an even deeper layer where

325
00:19:50,590 --> 00:19:55,250
free market competition turns into just, hang on, we could just cooperate.

326
00:19:56,380 --> 00:19:58,360
We don't even need to compete.

327
00:19:58,659 --> 00:20:01,249
And I don't think we're going to change humans overnight because there's going

328
00:20:01,599 --> 00:20:09,629
to be, people will want to do that, but you can see, uh, you can see over time

329
00:20:10,389 --> 00:20:16,059
that as you don't need all of these things to be able to live a good life.

330
00:20:16,979 --> 00:20:22,519
Because they all become closer and closer to free, then, then your

331
00:20:22,529 --> 00:20:26,819
time explodes for other things to be able to deliver value, right?

332
00:20:27,019 --> 00:20:28,079
And that's, so that's that.

333
00:20:28,499 --> 00:20:29,559
I think that's that point.

334
00:20:29,559 --> 00:20:31,379
It just happens over a natural course.

335
00:20:31,756 --> 00:20:32,950
Yeah, we're living through it.

336
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:35,670
We're experiencing it right now.

337
00:20:35,950 --> 00:20:36,810
Exactly that.

338
00:20:37,050 --> 00:20:37,460
Yeah.

339
00:20:37,715 --> 00:20:42,155
So my, um, again, I just used this example two weeks ago in a,

340
00:20:42,155 --> 00:20:46,985
in a, in a presentation, but my Lakehouse, um, uh, three and a

341
00:20:46,985 --> 00:20:49,175
half years ago was $1.4 million.

342
00:20:49,715 --> 00:20:51,635
Um, now it's $2.1 million.

343
00:20:52,225 --> 00:20:53,845
My lakehouse measured in Bitcoin.

344
00:20:53,995 --> 00:20:57,805
It was 300 Bitcoin three and a half years ago, and now it's, uh, 50 Bitcoin.

345
00:20:58,225 --> 00:21:00,775
Mind you, now it's 40, now it's 35 Bitcoin

346
00:21:01,255 --> 00:21:03,565
So, um, so you can see.

347
00:21:03,775 --> 00:21:05,285
Bitcoin is repricing everything.

348
00:21:05,875 --> 00:21:10,295
And then as, as you're in that system, you have more time.

349
00:21:11,215 --> 00:21:15,555
You'd literally like your time expands because you're working on, on

350
00:21:15,575 --> 00:21:18,105
things that are, are, are exciting.

351
00:21:18,115 --> 00:21:19,655
You're getting richer as a result.

352
00:21:20,035 --> 00:21:23,465
Your friends are deeper as a result because they're all working on

353
00:21:23,465 --> 00:21:25,335
this, uh, on on the same network.

354
00:21:26,974 --> 00:21:27,234
Yeah.

355
00:21:27,234 --> 00:21:27,924
It's beautiful.

356
00:21:27,964 --> 00:21:33,054
I, I think a point to the, uh, the, uh, drop to the market, marginal cost of

357
00:21:33,054 --> 00:21:37,439
production for all goods and services, I think for all For most people, it's,

358
00:21:37,449 --> 00:21:42,229
it's easy to see that that is happening with software and anything on a mobile

359
00:21:42,409 --> 00:21:46,939
phone, but it's harder to see that that is also happening in every other industry

360
00:21:46,939 --> 00:21:50,789
and every other sector because of the technological progress we're making.

361
00:21:51,179 --> 00:21:54,649
So people don't see how, how like carrots get cheaper.

362
00:21:55,109 --> 00:21:55,969
What is it?

363
00:21:56,009 --> 00:21:57,519
Yeah, I just want to pick up on that.

364
00:21:57,559 --> 00:22:04,149
One of my most hated charts is when people measure inflation through that thing that

365
00:22:04,149 --> 00:22:09,716
says, cell phones going down, these things going down and the other things going up.

366
00:22:10,376 --> 00:22:13,256
And why do you think it's my most hated chart?

367
00:22:13,863 --> 00:22:18,523
Because it misses the point because, because those things are also going down.

368
00:22:18,533 --> 00:22:22,193
The, the actual energy going into making them is going down.

369
00:22:22,233 --> 00:22:23,113
What is going up?

370
00:22:23,113 --> 00:22:25,363
It's just their fictitious fiat price.

371
00:22:26,068 --> 00:22:26,518
Amen.

372
00:22:27,048 --> 00:22:27,438
Amen.

373
00:22:27,498 --> 00:22:27,738
There.

374
00:22:27,918 --> 00:22:33,288
So, so think about this, in, in, you're in Europe, but in, um, in

375
00:22:33,768 --> 00:22:39,778
Sears in 1908, used to Del deliver a, a housing, a house, a full house to,

376
00:22:39,778 --> 00:22:45,478
to your, uh, to your land and all the lumber, windows, toilets, everything,

377
00:22:45,568 --> 00:22:48,238
the electrical, plumbing, the works.

378
00:22:48,708 --> 00:22:52,668
Um, the entire house package, um, costs $2,500.

379
00:22:53,846 --> 00:22:57,496
we've had technology in housing, we've had technology in lumber, we've

380
00:22:57,496 --> 00:23:01,876
had technology in, uh, in all of these parts, component parts and the

381
00:23:01,876 --> 00:23:04,706
distribution to be able to deliver them.

382
00:23:04,706 --> 00:23:12,324
We've had technology in energy, So how can that same package cost 300, 000 today?

383
00:23:13,814 --> 00:23:16,184
So, and it describes what we're talking about.

384
00:23:16,184 --> 00:23:22,844
It's describes the unnatural stealing of that productivity and transferring it up.

385
00:23:23,599 --> 00:23:23,779
Yeah.

386
00:23:23,779 --> 00:23:30,179
The first feeling you get when you realize this is anger, of course, but because

387
00:23:30,179 --> 00:23:34,479
you realize how much they've stolen and from how many people it's just.

388
00:23:34,864 --> 00:23:37,044
It's just the worst crime ever committed.

389
00:23:37,124 --> 00:23:39,684
It stole everything from everyone.

390
00:23:40,084 --> 00:23:46,454
The, the, but the thing, the thing that, that the deep dive into praxeology and

391
00:23:46,454 --> 00:23:51,074
Austrian economics did for me was to increase my appreciation of, of just

392
00:23:51,104 --> 00:23:58,304
people because Somehow, the world works despite all this theft, like people

393
00:23:58,314 --> 00:24:03,244
figure things out and we still have a somewhat functioning global free market.

394
00:24:03,593 --> 00:24:07,313
We, we, we, we, we don't, we don't, it doesn't look anything like that today.

395
00:24:07,778 --> 00:24:14,148
Unfortunately, it's not so, so at the end of these scales, here's one thing

396
00:24:14,148 --> 00:24:18,618
I don't even know if I knew when I wrote the book, um, and it came to

397
00:24:18,638 --> 00:24:25,618
me afterwards, um, when we look at the, um, what's the book that talks

398
00:24:25,618 --> 00:24:27,258
about the cycles, the 80 year cycles?

399
00:24:28,139 --> 00:24:28,919
The fourth turning?

400
00:24:29,094 --> 00:24:29,954
Yeah, the fourth turning.

401
00:24:30,214 --> 00:24:33,644
If you look at the fourth turning as described by what I'm talking

402
00:24:33,644 --> 00:24:38,094
about, it would be natural that because if, if technology has always

403
00:24:38,094 --> 00:24:44,513
been deflationary and then banks could always make more money by, by

404
00:24:44,633 --> 00:24:47,223
driving an inflationary policy, right?

405
00:24:47,273 --> 00:24:50,183
Or in fractional reserve, reserving, then you would expect to.

406
00:24:50,778 --> 00:24:54,878
At some sort of time, the free market to break because they would be in

407
00:24:54,898 --> 00:24:59,748
conflict with each other and the government would have to come in and

408
00:24:59,808 --> 00:25:03,498
save the banks because people would demand that to happen, or they'd

409
00:25:03,498 --> 00:25:05,008
have to come in and save the market.

410
00:25:05,658 --> 00:25:08,748
So, the government would move the debt that should have been cleared at

411
00:25:08,748 --> 00:25:13,698
that time and the banks failing, they would, it would kick the debt upstairs.

412
00:25:14,138 --> 00:25:18,128
It would go higher than the debt stack and then it would continue to happen.

413
00:25:18,128 --> 00:25:21,308
And so what we're describing right now through that lens would be the

414
00:25:21,308 --> 00:25:24,728
short term debt cycles leading to the long term debt cycles leading

415
00:25:24,738 --> 00:25:25,928
to the manipulation of money.

416
00:25:26,721 --> 00:25:29,381
Yeah, you're describing central banking and the

417
00:25:29,491 --> 00:25:29,851
Yeah, yeah,

418
00:25:30,161 --> 00:25:30,511
banking.

419
00:25:30,981 --> 00:25:34,261
we're describing, but yeah, because it's in conflict.

420
00:25:34,901 --> 00:25:40,121
With the free market isn't because the free market, the natural state

421
00:25:40,131 --> 00:25:41,981
of a free market is deflation.

422
00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:43,709
That's the natural state.

423
00:25:43,949 --> 00:25:48,649
So anything stopping that, um, would, would be in conflict

424
00:25:48,649 --> 00:25:49,899
with the free free market.

425
00:25:50,259 --> 00:25:52,359
So we believe we live in a free market.

426
00:25:53,649 --> 00:25:56,439
We believe that that is true, but we don't.

427
00:25:57,749 --> 00:26:04,219
And so we'll fight wars over that belief, we'll send more money to fight

428
00:26:04,219 --> 00:26:10,179
both sides of the war, to believe that our side is the right side, and if you

429
00:26:10,179 --> 00:26:18,139
looked at that zoomed out, country by country, then if you looked at the US, or

430
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:24,824
Canada, or Europe, we're even the worst inside our countries, Are beneficiaries

431
00:26:24,834 --> 00:26:29,584
from the theft from Africa and South America at a greater level, right?

432
00:26:29,824 --> 00:26:33,174
Even your, your lower, lower class here.

433
00:26:33,594 --> 00:26:35,294
And that's what, and that makes sense.

434
00:26:35,384 --> 00:26:42,334
So why, if you were in Africa and, and the cause of this pain in your, in your life.

435
00:26:43,199 --> 00:26:46,419
Well, you didn't know what was outside this and you had a dictator in your,

436
00:26:46,539 --> 00:26:51,639
in your country in Africa and, and misery and your, your currency was

437
00:26:51,639 --> 00:26:56,169
failing every, every five years and, and you couldn't save your labor

438
00:26:56,169 --> 00:26:57,399
and you couldn't feed your family.

439
00:26:57,749 --> 00:27:01,265
You would get on a boat too, to go to Europe, where, where they're

440
00:27:01,265 --> 00:27:03,875
the benefit, where they're the beneficiaries of stealing that

441
00:27:03,875 --> 00:27:05,185
productivity from other people.

442
00:27:06,095 --> 00:27:10,535
And so this flows around the world at a rate that we can't even comprehend.

443
00:27:10,940 --> 00:27:16,240
But we're within most, we're within the system and you and I are within

444
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:23,470
the system that is stealing more of that, or I'd say I was until I started

445
00:27:23,550 --> 00:27:25,070
spending way more of my time in Bitcoin.

446
00:27:25,910 --> 00:27:31,070
But, but, but I grew up in a system that was stealing that productivity

447
00:27:31,540 --> 00:27:32,700
from elsewhere on the planet.

448
00:27:33,470 --> 00:27:33,730
Yeah.

449
00:27:33,730 --> 00:27:34,100
Yeah.

450
00:27:34,810 --> 00:27:35,640
Don't get me wrong.

451
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,650
I was just trying to make the point that there's not total war everywhere.

452
00:27:41,139 --> 00:27:41,339
Yeah.

453
00:27:41,339 --> 00:27:45,689
But, but, but, but at the end of these cycles, Yeah, at the end

454
00:27:45,689 --> 00:27:46,939
of these cycles, there always is.

455
00:27:46,939 --> 00:27:50,663
At the end of these cycles, there always is.

456
00:27:50,723 --> 00:27:55,033
That's how you, because, because, because people would rather believe.

457
00:27:55,583 --> 00:27:57,833
Um, so think about what's happening today.

458
00:27:57,923 --> 00:28:02,043
Think about what the majority of humans are doing today.

459
00:28:02,943 --> 00:28:07,583
They're sticking their, their, um, their money in, in houses.

460
00:28:08,633 --> 00:28:12,643
Or tech companies, because they want to debased, be debased

461
00:28:13,323 --> 00:28:14,663
slower than everybody else.

462
00:28:16,293 --> 00:28:18,873
But those are also getting debased, right?

463
00:28:19,133 --> 00:28:21,313
But most people think that that's safe.

464
00:28:22,003 --> 00:28:23,173
And so they make it happen.

465
00:28:23,173 --> 00:28:27,966
And then prices rise of those companies, which, which, which which would then

466
00:28:28,013 --> 00:28:29,883
concentrate more, uh, more power.

467
00:28:30,353 --> 00:28:34,892
So our own, incentives in the system that's destroying itself,

468
00:28:35,812 --> 00:28:37,232
make that system stronger.

469
00:28:37,539 --> 00:28:38,499
it's so depressing,

470
00:28:39,549 --> 00:28:45,199
But it isn't, so again, you need to know it at a first principles level, because

471
00:28:45,239 --> 00:28:50,589
if you could say, okay, no, nothing Jeff said is true or parts are true, but if

472
00:28:50,589 --> 00:28:55,049
what I just described is true all over, and then you understand human beings, what

473
00:28:55,099 --> 00:28:59,819
they would do in systems like that, that are both true and their own incentives.

474
00:29:00,664 --> 00:29:05,354
They're trying to, so you, you can see what people will do, what the,

475
00:29:05,364 --> 00:29:09,404
what this rollout will look like and how a lot of people will be trapped

476
00:29:09,404 --> 00:29:14,314
in the system, not knowing how much strength they're giving it by either

477
00:29:14,324 --> 00:29:19,024
complaining at it or, or giving it more power through their actions or trying

478
00:29:19,034 --> 00:29:20,674
to save more money into that system.

479
00:29:20,674 --> 00:29:23,464
They're making it worse, so you need to know it.

480
00:29:24,099 --> 00:29:29,509
But now once you know it, and you have this new, open, decentralized, secure

481
00:29:30,619 --> 00:29:34,519
system that's emerging on the other side, now once you know it, all you

482
00:29:34,519 --> 00:29:40,249
have to do is walk across to the new system and start building there, and

483
00:29:40,249 --> 00:29:46,599
you see the the polar opposite of what I'm talking about, the inversion of

484
00:29:46,609 --> 00:29:48,159
1 divided by clown world,

485
00:29:48,344 --> 00:29:48,794
Yeah.

486
00:29:49,424 --> 00:29:49,764
Yeah.

487
00:29:50,809 --> 00:29:53,729
the inverse of clown world, that's, that's how I see it,

488
00:29:53,846 --> 00:29:57,466
Alright, you might have noticed that we've recently partnered with AmberApp.

489
00:29:57,757 --> 00:30:02,087
After our episode with Izzy, their CEO, and our close friend, we knew we

490
00:30:02,087 --> 00:30:05,492
would have to partner with them in some way, If you haven't seen our episode

491
00:30:05,492 --> 00:30:09,582
with Izzy, definitely go check it out, you'll see why it's such a great fit,

492
00:30:09,832 --> 00:30:13,762
and honestly, they're following the orange glowing light like Izzy always

493
00:30:13,762 --> 00:30:17,852
says, and that's exactly what we try to do here at the Freedom Footprint Show.

494
00:30:18,176 --> 00:30:22,586
The big news about AmberApp is that on Jan 3, 2024, they're going

495
00:30:22,586 --> 00:30:24,586
to be launching their version 2.

496
00:30:24,803 --> 00:30:28,313
I've seen some of the screenshots and it looks fantastic.

497
00:30:28,608 --> 00:30:32,418
They're going to be including a non custodial on chain wallet, an

498
00:30:32,438 --> 00:30:36,690
anonymous lightning wallet, a fiat wallet, And finally, it's going

499
00:30:36,690 --> 00:30:38,030
to be an exchange, of course.

500
00:30:38,271 --> 00:30:41,173
it's going to be just this super app, They're also going

501
00:30:41,173 --> 00:30:42,523
to be launching globally.

502
00:30:42,543 --> 00:30:44,093
Everyone's going to be able to use it.

503
00:30:44,333 --> 00:30:46,063
we're really excited about all that.

504
00:30:46,193 --> 00:30:48,833
Stay tuned with us and you'll hear all about it.

505
00:30:49,033 --> 00:30:51,383
And for now, check out their website, amber.

506
00:30:51,633 --> 00:30:54,343
app and the episode with Izzy to find out more.

507
00:30:54,650 --> 00:30:55,190
Next up

508
00:30:56,179 --> 00:30:56,189
WasabiWallet.

509
00:30:56,429 --> 00:30:59,879
The privacy by default, open source, non custodial Bitcoin

510
00:30:59,879 --> 00:31:01,589
wallet with CoinJoin built in.

511
00:31:02,169 --> 00:31:06,159
It's the easy to use, comprehensive, affordable way to make your coins private.

512
00:31:06,724 --> 00:31:09,734
And the best part is, they've been making huge improvements to the app.

513
00:31:10,044 --> 00:31:12,994
They're really focusing on the user experience, adding advanced

514
00:31:13,104 --> 00:31:15,654
features for power users, they just keep getting better.

515
00:31:16,174 --> 00:31:19,654
You send your coins to your Wasabi wallet, and they get combined with loads of

516
00:31:19,654 --> 00:31:23,774
other coins using the Wabi Sabi protocol, so they're private on the other end.

517
00:31:24,314 --> 00:31:27,824
Your tracks are covered so you can work on expanding your Freedom Footprint

518
00:31:27,974 --> 00:31:29,654
without worrying about your privacy.

519
00:31:30,534 --> 00:31:31,444
So, check out wasabiwallet.

520
00:31:31,444 --> 00:31:34,595
io and download Wasabi today.

521
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:42,160
so, yeah, this, this tempts me to lead us down a, uh, a different path here,

522
00:31:42,220 --> 00:31:49,170
because like, yeah, so, since, since we've established that we're We're, to some

523
00:31:49,170 --> 00:31:53,950
extent, doing it, doing this to ourselves by clinging on to the old system.

524
00:31:55,010 --> 00:32:01,140
to which extent does the mind create reality, and is the objective

525
00:32:01,180 --> 00:32:02,720
subjective dichotomy false?

526
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,870
Like, that's, that's the stuff I want to go into over Pontius and Madeira.

527
00:32:08,245 --> 00:32:08,795
Yeah, I know.

528
00:32:08,795 --> 00:32:11,965
And by the way, we're going to have, we're going to have a

529
00:32:12,195 --> 00:32:13,915
panel on this topic in Madeira.

530
00:32:13,975 --> 00:32:18,285
So if anybody's listening to this, uh, come to that, uh, come to Madeira,

531
00:32:18,335 --> 00:32:22,635
because this is going to be an exceptional, uh, an exceptional topic.

532
00:32:22,635 --> 00:32:26,125
But, um, so yeah.

533
00:32:27,965 --> 00:32:29,685
Where do you start on a topic like this?

534
00:32:30,185 --> 00:32:39,290
Um, probably in a lot of ways in, but, um, so why don't we use simulation

535
00:32:39,290 --> 00:32:41,460
theory as a way, as a way in.

536
00:32:41,740 --> 00:32:42,390
You want to do that?

537
00:32:43,260 --> 00:32:43,880
Absolutely.

538
00:32:44,361 --> 00:32:52,891
so Nick Bostrom's, um, I think 2004, uh, hypothesis that, that effectively

539
00:32:53,441 --> 00:32:59,311
if computers are moving at this rate of speed, uh, exponentially, and today we

540
00:32:59,311 --> 00:33:04,292
have these graphics that, uh, that could fool you that you're POLITICAL that you're

541
00:33:04,292 --> 00:33:09,142
living in a simulation, then what will it look like 10 years from now, 20 years

542
00:33:09,142 --> 00:33:11,502
from now, 30 years, 40 years from now?

543
00:33:11,502 --> 00:33:12,582
What would that look like?

544
00:33:13,492 --> 00:33:18,842
Um, and would, you know, if you were living in a simple simulation,

545
00:33:19,412 --> 00:33:23,622
like, how would you, how would, you know, um, and, and, and so.

546
00:33:24,287 --> 00:33:27,247
If you, if you take that and, and I don't think there's actually a

547
00:33:27,247 --> 00:33:31,197
way to just to know if you are or not, like the clock speed of the

548
00:33:31,197 --> 00:33:32,917
simulation could be light speed.

549
00:33:33,427 --> 00:33:34,357
That could be the supercomputer.

550
00:33:35,892 --> 00:33:38,972
Sorry for interrupting, but I think I have an answer to that question.

551
00:33:39,957 --> 00:33:40,197
Good.

552
00:33:40,417 --> 00:33:40,687
Go.

553
00:33:41,582 --> 00:33:48,772
Since you can't simulate proof of work, wouldn't Bitcoin eventually just

554
00:33:48,842 --> 00:33:50,902
slow down the speed of the simulation?

555
00:33:51,499 --> 00:33:55,969
Yeah, I, I, I, I'm not sure because that might be within our, what we're

556
00:33:55,979 --> 00:34:00,269
talking about, what we're talking about in this simulation, right?

557
00:34:00,269 --> 00:34:02,369
That, um, but so, so.

558
00:34:02,369 --> 00:34:02,569
Okay.

559
00:34:03,089 --> 00:34:08,799
Three weeks ago, there's a, um, three weeks ago, there was a, um,

560
00:34:08,909 --> 00:34:10,759
it's, it's being worked on right now.

561
00:34:10,759 --> 00:34:14,309
You know, um, I can't remember the name of the company, but they've actually put,

562
00:34:14,489 --> 00:34:21,349
uh, brain cells into, uh, into a computer mechanism and feeding that computer

563
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:27,706
mechanism to be able to speed up parallel processing in a crazy way because our

564
00:34:27,706 --> 00:34:29,736
brains do it differently than computers.

565
00:34:30,516 --> 00:34:36,346
So, so they actually have feeding into brain cells, into a computer to be able

566
00:34:36,346 --> 00:34:38,846
to drive, drive to AI in a different way.

567
00:34:39,676 --> 00:34:42,346
So those brain cells, just like your own brain cells.

568
00:34:43,376 --> 00:34:48,546
Do your brain cells or just energy, right, that you're, what you're

569
00:34:48,546 --> 00:34:53,516
seeing right now, what you're hearing right now from energy, energy, that's

570
00:34:53,956 --> 00:34:58,976
firing neurons that are firing, um, synapses and neurons that are, that are

571
00:34:58,986 --> 00:35:00,956
holding memories and, and, and such.

572
00:35:01,386 --> 00:35:02,966
So your brain cells themselves.

573
00:35:03,301 --> 00:35:05,851
Don't see the world like you think they see.

574
00:35:05,851 --> 00:35:07,241
You see the world or hear the world.

575
00:35:07,591 --> 00:35:12,481
They're just, it's an electrical pulse that is seeing the world.

576
00:35:12,801 --> 00:35:17,601
So if you look at even right now where we are in technology, the brain cells in

577
00:35:17,601 --> 00:35:23,921
that box that are being fired by something else to be able to drive, do they know?

578
00:35:24,342 --> 00:35:24,952
Okay.

579
00:35:25,812 --> 00:35:28,052
I'll attempt to answer that too, if I may.

580
00:35:29,612 --> 00:35:32,282
Like, I've been thinking a lot about AI, like, like everyone

581
00:35:32,282 --> 00:35:33,262
else in this space has.

582
00:35:33,262 --> 00:35:37,542
And like, I talked a lot to Alex Svetsky about this in, in both Amsterdam

583
00:35:37,542 --> 00:35:43,762
and Lugano, since he's, since he's working on this Spirit of Satoshi

584
00:35:43,762 --> 00:35:45,632
thing and actually developing an AI.

585
00:35:46,262 --> 00:35:51,412
And I think like the word intelligence in artificial intelligence is very

586
00:35:51,412 --> 00:35:58,532
misleading because The one thing an AI lacks is agency, or free

587
00:35:58,532 --> 00:35:59,862
will, for lack of a better word.

588
00:36:00,642 --> 00:36:06,752
It cannot feel uneasy, so it's never compelled to use means to reach ends.

589
00:36:07,962 --> 00:36:11,782
It's the perfect slave, but it can never be its own master,

590
00:36:11,832 --> 00:36:13,312
as long as it works like that.

591
00:36:14,212 --> 00:36:16,802
Because all of these systems are built in that way.

592
00:36:17,432 --> 00:36:19,322
Uh, and can I feel uneasy?

593
00:36:20,472 --> 00:36:25,762
Uh, I don't see a general, like a Skynet type AI developing anytime

594
00:36:25,762 --> 00:36:28,872
soon, regardless of if you put brain cells on the chips or not.

595
00:36:29,525 --> 00:36:31,945
So again, why do you feel uneasy?

596
00:36:32,678 --> 00:36:34,788
Um, right now I don't,

597
00:36:35,298 --> 00:36:35,478
Yeah.

598
00:36:35,508 --> 00:36:38,118
No, I know, but, but, but when you, when, when you keep, when you

599
00:36:38,118 --> 00:36:40,008
keep going down on that, right?

600
00:36:40,508 --> 00:36:44,948
So, so if your, if, if your brain is a computational, uh, is just a

601
00:36:44,953 --> 00:36:52,048
biological computer fired by a, by uh, uh, electrical impulse pulses, how

602
00:36:52,048 --> 00:36:54,178
does it get what we just described?

603
00:36:54,178 --> 00:36:54,538
By the way?

604
00:36:54,978 --> 00:36:58,758
I think I have an answer, which goes deeper, but, uh, but, but, but at

605
00:36:58,758 --> 00:37:00,558
that level, so when people say that.

606
00:37:02,173 --> 00:37:06,893
You're, you're creating a, a computer that can do it mechanically with, uh,

607
00:37:07,163 --> 00:37:11,413
with energy and you have a biological, uh, system that's, that's doing it.

608
00:37:12,378 --> 00:37:13,248
what is the difference?

609
00:37:14,502 --> 00:37:18,782
Like how do you get, how do you get your feeling of uneasy, or

610
00:37:18,782 --> 00:37:19,772
how do you get your feeling?

611
00:37:20,072 --> 00:37:21,812
How do you, how do you get that feeling?

612
00:37:23,267 --> 00:37:26,587
I'll attempt to answer that too, because I had a very interesting, like

613
00:37:26,587 --> 00:37:30,637
four hour conversation with Volker Herminghaus about this like last week.

614
00:37:31,517 --> 00:37:36,597
So, uh, and the, he, he brought up some experiments that I, I I've

615
00:37:36,597 --> 00:37:41,097
been aware of, but never really been, I haven't been thinking deeply

616
00:37:41,097 --> 00:37:42,977
enough about the impacts of them.

617
00:37:43,487 --> 00:37:48,020
And it's that consciousness is, uh, It's like a movie.

618
00:37:48,020 --> 00:37:53,940
It's playing out, uh, your, your impulses happen before your

619
00:37:53,970 --> 00:37:55,650
conscious decision to do something.

620
00:37:55,650 --> 00:37:58,590
So, so like when you decide to do something, it feels like you're

621
00:37:58,590 --> 00:38:01,860
making a conscious decision, but you're really not because there's

622
00:38:01,900 --> 00:38:04,570
like a third of a second lag.

623
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,080
Uh, between the nervous system and what's actually going on.

624
00:38:08,450 --> 00:38:13,570
So his thesis was that, yes, you can have free will, but only if you, but only

625
00:38:13,570 --> 00:38:19,320
if you accept that something outside of your brain exists that, that actually

626
00:38:19,340 --> 00:38:24,140
does the pulling of the levers, but you can't have it within the brain because

627
00:38:24,150 --> 00:38:29,285
the brain is, you can't control what Thoughts fire, what neurons fire up

628
00:38:29,595 --> 00:38:33,435
inside it, that you have no control over which neurons are fired up and not.

629
00:38:34,245 --> 00:38:38,335
So in that sense, the mind would be completely mechanical, as you say.

630
00:38:38,795 --> 00:38:41,065
And maybe it is, I don't have a good answer to this.

631
00:38:41,065 --> 00:38:42,445
I don't know if we have free will or

632
00:38:42,645 --> 00:38:46,565
And that's why I wanted to go through this first, kind of, because at this

633
00:38:46,565 --> 00:38:51,685
level, because that's what people do, they go, okay, well, it couldn't do

634
00:38:51,685 --> 00:38:54,935
this because we have consciousness, or they couldn't do this because we have

635
00:38:54,935 --> 00:39:00,625
empathy, or we couldn't do this because of any, then you have to ask why, right?

636
00:39:00,805 --> 00:39:01,605
How do we get it?

637
00:39:03,070 --> 00:39:04,000
Where does it come from?

638
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:04,970
Is it magical?

639
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:10,780
And before you get to that, because if it's a biological computer

640
00:39:10,780 --> 00:39:14,220
versus another computer, what was the emergent complex behavior?

641
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:19,670
What was emergent actions in this biological computer that created

642
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,210
the thing that you're talking about?

643
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,460
What you think is consciousness?

644
00:39:24,489 --> 00:39:31,414
Well, this is where we get into the really nice, deep stuff, because maybe Yeah,

645
00:39:31,444 --> 00:39:36,514
because that's, that might be, that might be hinting at that the brain is actually

646
00:39:36,874 --> 00:39:43,324
creating the universe and objective, objective reality might be where

647
00:39:43,324 --> 00:39:49,354
our, uh, consciousness says conscious nigh, or whatever the plural word is.

648
00:39:50,504 --> 00:39:51,214
I always miss

649
00:39:54,514 --> 00:39:57,164
that, might be a consciousness horizon, just as there's a

650
00:39:57,364 --> 00:39:58,614
hash horizon for Bitcoin.

651
00:39:58,664 --> 00:39:58,894
Yeah.

652
00:39:59,699 --> 00:40:03,389
I just wanted to get through that first, because to get to this next stage, right,

653
00:40:03,399 --> 00:40:07,559
it's such a leap, and it will be such a leap for people that it's just so hard

654
00:40:07,659 --> 00:40:12,564
to believe, but I'm going to try to give some, Not scientific concept, I'll go into

655
00:40:12,564 --> 00:40:18,314
a couple, but, but some, some examples where you might see that what we're

656
00:40:18,314 --> 00:40:21,034
talking about now, kind of is, is true.

657
00:40:21,984 --> 00:40:24,524
And so, I believe that.

658
00:40:25,129 --> 00:40:27,889
Uh, that essentially we are a mirror, right?

659
00:40:27,889 --> 00:40:33,279
That we create reality by our actions and we can't, we can't even measure

660
00:40:33,389 --> 00:40:36,879
those cause some of those actions are, and we don't know we do it a lot

661
00:40:36,879 --> 00:40:40,309
of times people don't know they do it, but every single thing you do.

662
00:40:41,056 --> 00:40:45,246
Touches everyone else, right, through your actions, through what you're doing.

663
00:40:45,296 --> 00:40:47,016
It literally carries on.

664
00:40:47,016 --> 00:40:47,706
It makes waves.

665
00:40:47,826 --> 00:40:52,916
You can bend the universe, effectively, or it lets you bend the world into it.

666
00:40:53,206 --> 00:40:56,666
And so all of our actions matter, every one of them.

667
00:40:56,716 --> 00:41:00,316
And we can tell ourselves these stories that they don't, they won't hurt somebody

668
00:41:00,316 --> 00:41:02,076
else, but they do, and you can see them.

669
00:41:02,506 --> 00:41:03,316
Cascade.

670
00:41:03,876 --> 00:41:05,466
Um, f uh, further.

671
00:41:06,186 --> 00:41:09,035
So a couple of ways into this.

672
00:41:09,035 --> 00:41:14,015
Let's use, uh, first, uh, uh, the double solid experiment or Schrodinger's

673
00:41:14,015 --> 00:41:17,315
cat or so we, we know, or, um.

674
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:23,080
The quantum world, right, doesn't right now have a, there's no unifying theory

675
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:28,400
of quantum and, uh, um, and standard model physics, Einstein's physics,

676
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,020
and the quantum world of physics.

677
00:41:30,650 --> 00:41:35,058
So, Einstein even called it spooky at a distance, right?

678
00:41:35,098 --> 00:41:37,028
Some of the things that are interconnected.

679
00:41:37,642 --> 00:41:41,952
um, but if you looked at the quantum double slit experiment, You could

680
00:41:41,952 --> 00:41:47,982
say one photon, if you don't have an observer, will go, uh, will go

681
00:41:47,982 --> 00:41:50,092
through both slits at the same time.

682
00:41:50,352 --> 00:41:51,212
And how do you know?

683
00:41:51,242 --> 00:41:54,242
Because it creates a wave function on the other side, and you can measure

684
00:41:54,242 --> 00:41:57,882
the wave function and the interference pattern of the wave function.

685
00:41:59,015 --> 00:42:03,345
so a very tiny, um, tandem of the minus 28.

686
00:42:03,905 --> 00:42:04,315
power.

687
00:42:04,315 --> 00:42:10,725
So it's infinitesimally small, um, uh, pieces that world doesn't look like we

688
00:42:10,725 --> 00:42:15,644
think it looks, it looks like, one photon can go through two slits at the same time.

689
00:42:16,604 --> 00:42:22,674
But if you observe that, if any experimenter is watching what happens,

690
00:42:22,674 --> 00:42:23,894
it only goes through one slit.

691
00:42:24,762 --> 00:42:30,782
So a lot of people in quantum kind of, a lot of people go, Oh, that's interesting.

692
00:42:30,862 --> 00:42:34,977
And how we're trying to think, um, Well, how can we understand that?

693
00:42:35,257 --> 00:42:37,497
Because it's almost impossible to understand, right?

694
00:42:37,497 --> 00:42:41,667
It breaks your brain, because how can the observer have an effect on the

695
00:42:41,667 --> 00:42:44,257
reality that they're creating, right?

696
00:42:44,827 --> 00:42:52,015
But if our entire universe is quantum, and that builds into standard model,

697
00:42:52,385 --> 00:42:58,905
the model, then what that might mean is, We, as the observer, create the reality.

698
00:42:59,365 --> 00:43:02,425
We don't know we create the reality, um, uh, through that

699
00:43:02,425 --> 00:43:03,775
observation and what we see.

700
00:43:03,905 --> 00:43:07,775
Now, what that might mean is the same thing that you just said before

701
00:43:07,785 --> 00:43:15,385
in, in that gap of a second before free will, that we see, we see

702
00:43:15,385 --> 00:43:18,845
something, that we make a decision on that, that then creates reality.

703
00:43:19,445 --> 00:43:21,005
Because all of the things around us.

704
00:43:21,305 --> 00:43:22,315
are a construct.

705
00:43:22,315 --> 00:43:25,725
All of the things we build are a construct of people doing things on a

706
00:43:25,725 --> 00:43:28,005
reality that they're creating, right?

707
00:43:28,005 --> 00:43:32,575
And then it shows up and that construct has to emerge from somewhere.

708
00:43:33,425 --> 00:43:38,735
Um, I, I use a couple simple examples to try to, uh, to get at this.

709
00:43:39,950 --> 00:43:45,290
Um, one, and I'll use two separate ones, um, and, and one, um, you

710
00:43:45,290 --> 00:43:49,100
probably heard me say this before, but if, if somebody shows up as a

711
00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:56,208
victim, and everybody knows somebody who shows up a victim, as a victim, I,

712
00:43:56,368 --> 00:44:00,958
I believe for us, love and belonging is kind of the highest order thing.

713
00:44:00,988 --> 00:44:03,588
That's what we want most, but we tell ourselves something.

714
00:44:03,628 --> 00:44:06,038
So everything else is in service of love and belonging.

715
00:44:06,838 --> 00:44:11,358
And so what the victim is actually doing is trying to get, it's

716
00:44:11,358 --> 00:44:15,328
essentially trying to get people to come closer and say, because you matter.

717
00:44:16,874 --> 00:44:20,664
And so people would look at that and what ends up happening is they have a sign on

718
00:44:20,664 --> 00:44:24,584
their forehead pushing people away because it's harder and harder to be around

719
00:44:24,584 --> 00:44:25,984
somebody that's like that all the time.

720
00:44:28,024 --> 00:44:31,724
And so they don't, they don't know that they're creating that reality,

721
00:44:31,724 --> 00:44:33,524
their own reality, by doing it.

722
00:44:33,839 --> 00:44:34,869
And nobody tells them.

723
00:44:35,489 --> 00:44:38,499
Everybody tells everybody tells everybody else how they're

724
00:44:38,499 --> 00:44:39,929
showing up, but nobody tells them.

725
00:44:40,579 --> 00:44:40,839
Right.

726
00:44:41,319 --> 00:44:45,019
And so what all those people are doing is essentially saying, I care more

727
00:44:45,019 --> 00:44:46,669
about what you think of me than you.

728
00:44:47,969 --> 00:44:51,369
And then every once in a while, somebody will come out that really cares about them

729
00:44:51,369 --> 00:44:52,999
at a level and turn their sign around.

730
00:44:53,624 --> 00:44:57,644
And in turning their sign around, they say, I care about more you, more about

731
00:44:57,644 --> 00:44:59,464
you than what you think about me.

732
00:44:59,904 --> 00:45:05,544
And it change, it can change that person, but generally that person doesn't change.

733
00:45:06,024 --> 00:45:10,674
And more and more people move away and that person doubles down and creates more

734
00:45:10,674 --> 00:45:13,914
drama to try to get them to come back.

735
00:45:14,394 --> 00:45:19,824
And so they, they can't see that for their world in that per, in that person's world.

736
00:45:20,794 --> 00:45:24,424
Um, that person's world has a exact same abundance that I have.

737
00:45:25,754 --> 00:45:26,644
But they can't see it.

738
00:45:27,584 --> 00:45:33,994
So their version of reality is as true as my version of reality for them, for me.

739
00:45:34,014 --> 00:45:36,754
We just see two totally different versions of reality.

740
00:45:36,754 --> 00:45:38,394
Is that fair?

741
00:45:38,946 --> 00:45:39,556
Absolutely.

742
00:45:39,596 --> 00:45:42,646
I think that every human problem stems from the urge

743
00:45:42,656 --> 00:45:44,096
for there to be a free lunch.

744
00:45:44,386 --> 00:45:44,606
Yeah.

745
00:45:44,776 --> 00:45:47,566
Like, there is no second breakfast.

746
00:45:47,566 --> 00:45:51,186
I mean, the, the, yeah, this is a search for a free lunch that isn't there.

747
00:45:51,196 --> 00:45:54,176
You have to put in the work, you have to, you have to change yourself.

748
00:45:55,296 --> 00:45:57,186
But again, that's your reality.

749
00:45:57,726 --> 00:46:03,176
Which is true for you, right, um, and you'll see that everywhere because it's

750
00:46:03,226 --> 00:46:08,426
true for you, right, just like the victim will see the reality for that her him

751
00:46:09,006 --> 00:46:12,526
because they'll see it everywhere and they will describe it and it'll be your back.

752
00:46:12,536 --> 00:46:14,946
It'll be a perfect mirror reflection of that.

753
00:46:15,006 --> 00:46:16,516
Just like yours will be right.

754
00:46:16,536 --> 00:46:17,376
You'll see it everywhere.

755
00:46:18,066 --> 00:46:19,236
I have a perfect example.

756
00:46:19,236 --> 00:46:24,726
My, my parents, uh, like this is, uh, 25 years ago maybe, or 30 years ago

757
00:46:24,756 --> 00:46:29,636
probably, they bought a dog, a Rhodesian Ridge back, which is a normal dog

758
00:46:29,636 --> 00:46:33,536
with a ridge on its back, like normal brown dog with a ridge on its back.

759
00:46:33,956 --> 00:46:38,626
And I've never, never seen such a dog before and after they bought, bought it,

760
00:46:38,626 --> 00:46:40,876
I saw, I saw that type of dog everywhere.

761
00:46:41,056 --> 00:46:43,006
It's just that I didn't notice it before.

762
00:46:43,216 --> 00:46:48,682
before I knew that that was the type of dog like so and I think that's like

763
00:46:48,702 --> 00:46:52,802
what you put your attention where you put your attention sort of creates

764
00:46:52,822 --> 00:46:56,712
the world you live in because you don't notice what you were the things.

765
00:46:57,292 --> 00:46:58,952
You don't put your attention to.

766
00:46:59,097 --> 00:47:04,497
So let's keep going on this because it's such a deep, it's really critical.

767
00:47:04,537 --> 00:47:12,227
So in other words, that reality that was formed, that person reinforces

768
00:47:12,267 --> 00:47:17,067
the reality over and over and over, and it's true for them, right?

769
00:47:17,417 --> 00:47:21,087
And my reality is true for me, and your reality is true for you, and all

770
00:47:21,087 --> 00:47:23,057
different ideas that make it true.

771
00:47:23,705 --> 00:47:28,970
and now we'll go to a different, um, a different idea that will connect to these.

772
00:47:29,610 --> 00:47:33,760
Um, so let's imagine, um, we're all at a party, there's a

773
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,290
hundred people at a party, right?

774
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:40,170
And a hundred people in a room, um, and we're, we're all

775
00:47:40,170 --> 00:47:41,230
chatting and everything else.

776
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:47,580
And you and I are in a deep conversation, Knut, and then, and then somewhere

777
00:47:47,580 --> 00:47:52,472
across the room, somebody says, Knut, you will, you won't even look away, but

778
00:47:52,472 --> 00:47:57,952
you will tune into the other conversation and out of mine and they could whisper

779
00:47:57,952 --> 00:47:59,412
your name and that would still happen.

780
00:48:00,352 --> 00:48:01,332
So what does that mean?

781
00:48:01,902 --> 00:48:02,182
Right?

782
00:48:02,372 --> 00:48:03,272
What that means is.

783
00:48:04,147 --> 00:48:09,287
All of the conversations at all of the times are actually happening

784
00:48:10,284 --> 00:48:15,154
and you can hear them all, you know, they're, they're all hitting your,

785
00:48:15,164 --> 00:48:20,854
they're all just energy hitting your, hitting your brain, but you as the

786
00:48:20,854 --> 00:48:23,634
observer, as the double slit experiment.

787
00:48:24,459 --> 00:48:30,309
are choosing, even whether you know it or not, by all of your previous actions,

788
00:48:30,329 --> 00:48:33,779
by all of your beliefs, are choosing which conversations to tune into.

789
00:48:34,729 --> 00:48:38,629
And concurrently, it also means, if you just do that simple, uh,

790
00:48:38,739 --> 00:48:44,529
strawman example, it also means that anyone in that room at any time

791
00:48:44,569 --> 00:48:46,564
could have changed your life forever.

792
00:48:46,764 --> 00:48:47,464
Positively.

793
00:48:48,714 --> 00:48:49,654
But you can't hear them.

794
00:48:50,422 --> 00:48:57,332
And when you, when you go, when you start to think about that, when you think, and

795
00:48:57,342 --> 00:49:02,072
this is actually where I get to, and I actually agree with you, I don't think

796
00:49:02,102 --> 00:49:09,912
computers can do what we can do, or, um, I think we are, we are we can do.

797
00:49:11,142 --> 00:49:17,392
In this animal kingdom, in this, we are unique in that way, in that, so

798
00:49:17,392 --> 00:49:21,852
if, if the world, if the universe is quantum, then we're quantum too.

799
00:49:22,732 --> 00:49:23,772
Our brains are quantum.

800
00:49:24,972 --> 00:49:29,452
And the tiniest, tiniest things, those tiny little examples,

801
00:49:29,772 --> 00:49:31,022
we're choosing reality.

802
00:49:31,322 --> 00:49:33,252
And we're actually making reality.

803
00:49:33,732 --> 00:49:36,152
So our, um, our consciousness.

804
00:49:37,292 --> 00:49:37,562
Right.

805
00:49:38,192 --> 00:49:41,822
What we see in the world is a reflection of our consciousness back at us

806
00:49:43,145 --> 00:49:43,975
That's a quote.

807
00:49:45,545 --> 00:49:46,835
That's the tweet right there.

808
00:49:50,125 --> 00:49:50,865
No, it's fantastic.

809
00:49:51,055 --> 00:49:55,435
Just when you said that about someone whispering my name, I thought of like

810
00:49:55,435 --> 00:49:57,415
what am I not hearing in this room now?

811
00:49:57,425 --> 00:50:01,645
And I instantly heard my, the fan from my computer humming, which I haven't

812
00:50:01,645 --> 00:50:03,625
heard all throughout the conversation.

813
00:50:03,625 --> 00:50:04,545
It's the same thing, right?

814
00:50:05,065 --> 00:50:06,415
It's exactly the same thing.

815
00:50:06,655 --> 00:50:08,515
All of these things, they're there, they're, they're

816
00:50:08,515 --> 00:50:09,865
there all, all of the time.

817
00:50:10,275 --> 00:50:11,985
And so which ones are you tuned into?

818
00:50:11,985 --> 00:50:16,005
Which ones are you not tuned into and what, what abundance actually is there?

819
00:50:16,455 --> 00:50:18,555
What, what can't you see?

820
00:50:19,305 --> 00:50:23,865
Because, because your beliefs and, and, and what the, the story you're

821
00:50:23,865 --> 00:50:26,435
telling yourself is true for you.

822
00:50:27,009 --> 00:50:30,379
so is this the difference between hearing and listening and the

823
00:50:30,379 --> 00:50:32,629
difference between seeing and observing?

824
00:50:33,969 --> 00:50:35,289
This is semantics, I know.

825
00:50:35,304 --> 00:50:36,254
Yeah, semantics.

826
00:50:36,264 --> 00:50:41,134
I think, I actually think that this is, this ties into, actually, I

827
00:50:41,134 --> 00:50:43,024
think this ties into enlightenment.

828
00:50:43,074 --> 00:50:46,054
I think this ties into most religions.

829
00:50:46,484 --> 00:50:51,784
I think kind of the, the top of that consciousness ladder and

830
00:50:52,044 --> 00:50:54,984
enlightenment is this concept.

831
00:50:56,209 --> 00:50:57,769
That it just is, right?

832
00:50:58,489 --> 00:51:02,989
It, um, this is, uh, it is, it's this way for everyone and everyone's

833
00:51:02,989 --> 00:51:07,758
describing their, their own unique actions within this entire uni.

834
00:51:07,848 --> 00:51:09,618
That's all tied to energy, right?

835
00:51:09,708 --> 00:51:14,268
Even, even if you realize, uh, that, um, if you look today at, to what the,

836
00:51:14,388 --> 00:51:18,558
uh, I forgot the name of the, uh, the whatever web, uh, te, uh, telescope,

837
00:51:19,103 --> 00:51:24,363
at James Webb Te uh, telescope, what it seems to prove is there was no big bang.

838
00:51:25,039 --> 00:51:25,339
Yeah.

839
00:51:25,639 --> 00:51:25,759
Yeah.

840
00:51:25,759 --> 00:51:27,409
So go, go look that up.

841
00:51:27,409 --> 00:51:33,379
Like, so, so people are like, so right now our physics, the people that we've grown

842
00:51:33,379 --> 00:51:38,614
up believing, go look up what's happening right now through the James Webb.

843
00:51:38,734 --> 00:51:42,124
'cause, 'cause the, the, the universe, the early universe

844
00:51:42,124 --> 00:51:43,469
shouldn't look like it does.

845
00:51:45,364 --> 00:51:49,384
Right now through, uh, through, uh, through that, it's too uniform.

846
00:51:49,384 --> 00:51:52,384
It's too, there's galaxies that are too, too small.

847
00:51:52,384 --> 00:51:54,124
They shouldn't, uh, shouldn't look like that.

848
00:51:54,124 --> 00:52:00,814
So we're observing things right now that change fundamentally what we believed

849
00:52:00,814 --> 00:52:03,334
for a long, uh, for, uh, for a long time.

850
00:52:03,334 --> 00:52:07,024
And those things, those things are hard for our minds to accept because

851
00:52:07,029 --> 00:52:08,734
we believe that it's that that look.

852
00:52:09,094 --> 00:52:14,224
But that has pretty dramatic consequences that tie into the same type of things

853
00:52:14,224 --> 00:52:15,424
that we're talking about right now.

854
00:52:15,970 --> 00:52:20,280
This is wonderful because this thing that you're describing now with the

855
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:24,780
James Webb telescope and like we have to revive or all our models are

856
00:52:24,780 --> 00:52:26,530
destroyed to cite a friend of ours.

857
00:52:27,010 --> 00:52:28,444
Uh, like.

858
00:52:28,625 --> 00:52:35,575
Uh, that's, that's the part I love about empiricism and like, that's what

859
00:52:35,575 --> 00:52:39,925
the scientific method is, why it's good and why it's beautiful, right?

860
00:52:40,395 --> 00:52:47,224
So did you read a Hoppe book called, um, Economic Science and the Austrian Method?

861
00:52:47,765 --> 00:52:48,775
no, I don't think I did.

862
00:52:49,565 --> 00:52:52,195
It's one of my favorite Austrian economics books.

863
00:52:52,235 --> 00:52:56,415
I'm doing a series with Rob Breedlove about that specific book because

864
00:52:56,415 --> 00:53:01,165
we love it so much and in it he points out, Hoppe points out the

865
00:53:01,165 --> 00:53:06,125
genius of Mises in this exact thing you're talking about that It's, it's

866
00:53:06,285 --> 00:53:13,535
through action that the subjective and the objective are tied like that.

867
00:53:13,545 --> 00:53:19,235
That's, that's, that's what's, what creates the fabric of reality on, on

868
00:53:19,235 --> 00:53:21,375
a, this is, this is about economics.

869
00:53:21,385 --> 00:53:24,895
So it has nothing to do with this quantum theory and stuff, but from

870
00:53:24,895 --> 00:53:30,915
a, from a philosophical lens, if you will, action is the thing that

871
00:53:30,925 --> 00:53:35,805
ties the two worlds together because it was a false dichotomy all along.

872
00:53:35,815 --> 00:53:36,275
Like there's.

873
00:53:36,455 --> 00:53:38,205
There's no objective and subjective.

874
00:53:38,215 --> 00:53:42,145
It's, it's, it's part of the same thing and it's bridged through action.

875
00:53:42,805 --> 00:53:43,105
Yeah.

876
00:53:43,245 --> 00:53:47,025
Because if you, if you just go back, go back to starting the base level

877
00:53:47,035 --> 00:53:52,025
to there, what creates the things that we, we call reality, like the

878
00:53:52,025 --> 00:53:57,475
table in your room or this, this, somebody had a thought at some point.

879
00:53:59,465 --> 00:54:03,485
That, and preceding that thought, they were, the reason for that

880
00:54:03,485 --> 00:54:07,485
thought and preceding that was their belief system and everything else

881
00:54:07,815 --> 00:54:11,735
that then created some, that then turned into the things we experience.

882
00:54:12,055 --> 00:54:12,575
Of course.

883
00:54:14,115 --> 00:54:14,705
Of course.

884
00:54:14,765 --> 00:54:16,155
That's, that's why, that's, that's.

885
00:54:17,410 --> 00:54:21,610
That's why I said we are all connected, whether we want to believe that or not,

886
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,740
we are all connected and when you're, and this is where it ties to Bitcoin

887
00:54:25,740 --> 00:54:31,910
and rather strongly, um, when you're all connected on a layer like this, the,

888
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:37,150
the the possibilities for human progress or what ends up happening is so, so

889
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:43,270
staggering, so mind numbing that people stuck in the old, uh, old system can't

890
00:54:43,270 --> 00:54:48,645
even, um, They can't even begin to even think about why you're stuck into this old

891
00:54:48,645 --> 00:54:50,405
system that's stealing your life energy.

892
00:54:50,415 --> 00:54:52,335
You can't even, you can't even get there.

893
00:54:52,855 --> 00:54:58,355
And, and that, and that's how, when I look at my life or when

894
00:54:58,355 --> 00:55:01,405
I look at what I'm doing and all of these things, I understand.

895
00:55:01,405 --> 00:55:06,065
I empathize with those people that are stuck there, just like I empathize

896
00:55:06,065 --> 00:55:08,505
with other people who are stuck in different areas of their life.

897
00:55:10,110 --> 00:55:11,070
I'm just not stuck.

898
00:55:11,868 --> 00:55:12,168
yeah.

899
00:55:12,168 --> 00:55:15,898
When, when, when I think about the connectedness of everything, I, I

900
00:55:15,898 --> 00:55:21,778
imagine, uh, not a blockchain, but an umbilical cord chain back to all the

901
00:55:21,778 --> 00:55:27,268
way back to the first amoeba that, that I evolved from, you know, so.

902
00:55:28,153 --> 00:55:34,033
Even the impulses of the one celled organism led up to the table and the

903
00:55:34,033 --> 00:55:35,573
computer I'm talking to you through.

904
00:55:36,203 --> 00:55:40,473
And then, then think about, think, and think about this like in a, like a

905
00:55:40,473 --> 00:55:44,633
goose bumps there, like, like literally right now, just say and feel it.

906
00:55:44,633 --> 00:55:51,853
And, uh, and think about those actions, uh, touching other people

907
00:55:51,853 --> 00:55:54,533
and how much of a difference they can make in, in people's lives.

908
00:55:54,583 --> 00:55:58,973
Like you and I, Knut, we, um, I just called you while I was

909
00:55:58,973 --> 00:56:00,463
traveling up here around Europe.

910
00:56:00,463 --> 00:56:03,693
We'd known each other for years and in this, in this ecosystem

911
00:56:03,693 --> 00:56:07,633
and I came, visited your family and spent time, we played guitar.

912
00:56:09,473 --> 00:56:10,703
Incredible evening.

913
00:56:10,793 --> 00:56:12,683
It's turned into a beautiful friendship.

914
00:56:13,283 --> 00:56:18,303
Um, and, and, and to, to this conversation, then this type

915
00:56:18,303 --> 00:56:22,133
of conversation that then, then can go on and touch 10 people, a

916
00:56:22,133 --> 00:56:24,753
million people, a billion people.

917
00:56:25,173 --> 00:56:31,108
And, um, And, and it can, and they might not even know, they might, it might

918
00:56:31,108 --> 00:56:36,058
be just the, the canoe to the party hearing, whispering a name, they might

919
00:56:36,058 --> 00:56:40,668
not even know that this conversation might have started them down the road of

920
00:56:40,668 --> 00:56:42,488
discovery that took them somewhere else.

921
00:56:42,628 --> 00:56:46,358
And then they touch way more people than we even had a chance to.

922
00:56:47,798 --> 00:56:51,748
We can't know that, which is the most beautiful thing about, uh,

923
00:56:51,768 --> 00:56:53,728
about it, but our actions do matter.

924
00:56:54,307 --> 00:56:58,437
Yeah, it's truly mind numbing, as you say, and goose bumpy.

925
00:56:59,757 --> 00:57:03,137
Just the thought of anyone listening is goose bumpy in itself.

926
00:57:04,209 --> 00:57:06,409
The show is also sponsored by Orange Pill App,

927
00:57:06,659 --> 00:57:09,989
the Bitcoin only social network where you can stack friends who stack sats.

928
00:57:10,609 --> 00:57:13,359
You can connect with your favorite Bitcoiners on the app, make local

929
00:57:13,359 --> 00:57:16,449
connections, and even connect with Bitcoiners around the world.

930
00:57:17,039 --> 00:57:19,369
You can see what's going on in your local area and connect

931
00:57:19,369 --> 00:57:20,619
with Bitcoiners around you.

932
00:57:20,779 --> 00:57:23,649
I've been to multiple events organized on Orange Pill App, and they brought

933
00:57:23,809 --> 00:57:25,519
Bitcoiners together from all over.

934
00:57:25,784 --> 00:57:28,494
And now with group chat, it's easier than ever to stay in touch

935
00:57:28,494 --> 00:57:29,954
with all of your Bitcoin friends.

936
00:57:30,450 --> 00:57:34,050
The best part is that you know it's high signal, there's no spam on OrangePillApp

937
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:35,580
because everyone pays to be there.

938
00:57:35,908 --> 00:57:38,898
So download OrangePillApp on Apple or Android, send me or Knut

939
00:57:38,899 --> 00:57:42,118
a DM, and start building your local network of Bitcoiners today.

940
00:57:42,383 --> 00:57:43,983
Next up, The Bitcoin Way.

941
00:57:44,513 --> 00:57:47,823
Their mission is to onboard, educate, and remove barriers to

942
00:57:47,823 --> 00:57:49,433
taking self custody of your bitcoin.

943
00:57:49,983 --> 00:57:54,293
They cover everything from cold wallets to nodes, no KYC bitcoin purchases,

944
00:57:54,343 --> 00:57:56,773
inheritance planning, payments, and more.

945
00:57:57,303 --> 00:58:00,113
Whether you're new to bitcoin or you're an experienced bitcoiner looking to

946
00:58:00,123 --> 00:58:03,993
expand your freedom footprint, Or you know someone who this sounds perfect for?

947
00:58:04,353 --> 00:58:06,273
The Bitcoin Way has something for you.

948
00:58:06,913 --> 00:58:10,433
They have a skilled team, well versed in the Bitcoin space, and their goal is to

949
00:58:10,433 --> 00:58:14,323
make all the complexities of Bitcoin as straightforward as possible for everyone.

950
00:58:14,883 --> 00:58:17,383
And the best part is you can get started with a free 30

951
00:58:17,383 --> 00:58:18,563
minute call with their team.

952
00:58:19,083 --> 00:58:20,623
Go to thebitcoinway.

953
00:58:20,643 --> 00:58:22,853
com slash contact for more info.

954
00:58:23,454 --> 00:58:25,354
Our newest sponsor is Geyser.

955
00:58:25,684 --> 00:58:28,574
They are the portal to the creator economy on Bitcoin.

956
00:58:29,274 --> 00:58:32,994
On Geyser, creators can monetize their work through their communities

957
00:58:33,024 --> 00:58:34,644
in a social and engaging way.

958
00:58:35,024 --> 00:58:37,814
And supporters can send sats to their favorite projects.

959
00:58:38,261 --> 00:58:41,560
Geyser has also recently integrated with Zapps and Podcasting 2.

960
00:58:41,561 --> 00:58:42,021
0.

961
00:58:42,371 --> 00:58:45,921
So every Zapp sent to a Geyser address shows up on the Geyser page.

962
00:58:46,681 --> 00:58:48,141
We have a Geyser fund ourselves.

963
00:58:48,151 --> 00:58:50,311
It's the best way to support our show directly with Bitcoin.

964
00:58:51,321 --> 00:58:55,181
So whether you're a creator or a supporter, check out geyser at geyser.

965
00:58:55,181 --> 00:58:56,081
fund today.

966
00:58:57,394 --> 00:59:00,174
you have anything specific on your mind after hearing all of this?

967
00:59:01,239 --> 00:59:06,109
Yeah, and I feel like you passed it over to me at this particular

968
00:59:06,109 --> 00:59:08,169
point for a reason here.

969
00:59:08,549 --> 00:59:11,649
Jeff, I'm going to give you a little bit of context on some of the ideas

970
00:59:11,649 --> 00:59:16,139
that Knut and I have been tossing around for a little while that I have

971
00:59:16,169 --> 00:59:18,159
been working on for a while here.

972
00:59:18,559 --> 00:59:25,989
Uh, the, the concept of How Bitcoin fixes the world has been a big, big

973
00:59:26,019 --> 00:59:30,489
question, I think, and what it's going to look like in the future is amazing.

974
00:59:30,499 --> 00:59:37,327
And the facet of this that fascinates me to some extent here is that, I am

975
00:59:37,577 --> 00:59:46,287
still of the opinion that, that Bitcoin takes away the noise of the world, right?

976
00:59:46,757 --> 00:59:49,807
Signal, signal to noise, as in previous discussions.

977
00:59:50,227 --> 00:59:55,217
But the, the thing about this is, where do we still find the meaning?

978
00:59:56,442 --> 01:00:00,152
And just to calibrate that a little bit more, everything you're talking

979
01:00:00,152 --> 01:00:06,822
about here and the actions of everyone affecting everyone else and the reality

980
01:00:06,882 --> 01:00:13,602
created within everyone here, this already sounds to me a little bit like there is a

981
01:00:13,642 --> 01:00:18,072
kernel of that Someone's actions matter.

982
01:00:18,172 --> 01:00:19,442
Everyone's actions matter.

983
01:00:20,322 --> 01:00:26,742
But the trouble that I've experienced has been in the world as it exists

984
01:00:27,182 --> 01:00:33,652
today, it's really hard to feel like it's worth doing something

985
01:00:33,682 --> 01:00:36,162
meaningful, pursuing what is meaningful.

986
01:00:36,282 --> 01:00:41,952
And what are your thoughts on the pursuit of meaning?

987
01:00:42,902 --> 01:00:46,487
When Bitcoin has solved the problem of value.

988
01:00:47,601 --> 01:00:53,691
So go, yeah, okay, so, um, and again, because this is going to happen over

989
01:00:53,691 --> 01:00:59,791
a long time horizon, when you describe what everybody else gets meaning and

990
01:00:59,821 --> 01:01:04,991
you mistakenly think this is what they're doing because you think you

991
01:01:05,011 --> 01:01:08,471
know their actions like that, we all live in our own movie, like we're,

992
01:01:09,181 --> 01:01:13,171
um, so we create our own movie, we're the star of our own movie.

993
01:01:13,571 --> 01:01:18,731
Um, and we think about ourselves all the time, um, most people, and then

994
01:01:18,731 --> 01:01:21,961
we can't understand why somebody else doesn't think about us as much as we do.

995
01:01:22,351 --> 01:01:27,261
And, and, and so every one of their, their own movie, and then they're

996
01:01:27,271 --> 01:01:30,521
looking at everybody else thinking, why aren't those people acting like

997
01:01:30,521 --> 01:01:33,071
I am from the same, uh, same thing?

998
01:01:33,761 --> 01:01:37,281
What I said before is I, I believe.

999
01:01:37,736 --> 01:01:40,846
That everything else, and I might be wrong here, but I believe everything

1000
01:01:40,846 --> 01:01:43,436
else is in service of love and belonging.

1001
01:01:44,116 --> 01:01:45,846
We want to matter, right?

1002
01:01:45,966 --> 01:01:48,946
We wouldn't, we wouldn't be the center of our own movie if we

1003
01:01:48,946 --> 01:01:51,156
didn't want to matter, right?

1004
01:01:51,716 --> 01:01:56,326
And so, and which creates a whole bunch of other things.

1005
01:01:56,546 --> 01:01:57,876
Us trying to matter.

1006
01:01:58,356 --> 01:01:58,956
Our ego.

1007
01:01:59,236 --> 01:02:02,506
Driving that we matter more than this person.

1008
01:02:02,506 --> 01:02:04,476
This person is doing it this way, this person.

1009
01:02:04,476 --> 01:02:08,666
And that also drives in group bias, out group bias, a whole bunch of other things,

1010
01:02:08,966 --> 01:02:14,516
because we would never belong to a group that wasn't the better group, right?

1011
01:02:14,586 --> 01:02:16,876
Because it would say something about us, right?

1012
01:02:16,886 --> 01:02:20,216
So all of these things are connected in service of love and belonging.

1013
01:02:20,656 --> 01:02:22,116
And I don't think that changes at all.

1014
01:02:23,281 --> 01:02:25,181
I don't think it changes one iota.

1015
01:02:25,181 --> 01:02:27,171
I think this, this amplifies it.

1016
01:02:28,061 --> 01:02:31,751
And as more and more of the noise falls away from the

1017
01:02:31,751 --> 01:02:33,521
world over a long time, right?

1018
01:02:33,521 --> 01:02:36,831
Because you don't have to give the existing world energy.

1019
01:02:37,891 --> 01:02:44,751
And I say that even without Bitcoin, even without Bitcoin, did Buddha

1020
01:02:45,441 --> 01:02:47,881
give the rest of the world energy?

1021
01:02:48,151 --> 01:02:49,351
Or did he rise above it?

1022
01:02:49,826 --> 01:02:50,066
Right.

1023
01:02:50,066 --> 01:02:54,236
If you, if you take kind of a religious type of concept and what

1024
01:02:54,236 --> 01:02:59,216
that shows you is you can, through enlightenment, rise above everything

1025
01:02:59,346 --> 01:03:03,356
else is happening and you can just, this is the way and it can't touch you.

1026
01:03:03,356 --> 01:03:04,256
It can't phase you.

1027
01:03:04,826 --> 01:03:06,496
That's not normal for most people.

1028
01:03:07,176 --> 01:03:08,076
But could they?

1029
01:03:08,536 --> 01:03:09,236
Yeah, they could.

1030
01:03:09,566 --> 01:03:15,926
With Bitcoin, that allows more people to contribute into a system

1031
01:03:15,926 --> 01:03:17,936
that's doing that for all people.

1032
01:03:18,926 --> 01:03:22,406
So I think over the long, uh, long term, I think it's actually

1033
01:03:22,406 --> 01:03:25,166
a rise of consciousness in the world that is precipitative.

1034
01:03:25,801 --> 01:03:26,791
precipitated from this.

1035
01:03:27,901 --> 01:03:33,791
And it, and it starts, and it starts with operating on an honest chain, but that

1036
01:03:33,791 --> 01:03:40,121
honest chain has, um, has implications for everything else in society and us.

1037
01:03:40,201 --> 01:03:45,521
It has to because, because today to me, most of the world

1038
01:03:46,071 --> 01:03:49,241
is, is on a dishonest ledger.

1039
01:03:50,031 --> 01:03:52,881
And so you just have to ask the corollary.

1040
01:03:53,161 --> 01:03:58,971
That you're, that most of your actions today would look through, even, even

1041
01:03:58,971 --> 01:04:04,151
though, you know, Bitcoin, what gives you more, what gives the chain, the

1042
01:04:04,151 --> 01:04:09,781
existing system more, uh, uh, power in your mind is all of this fear and

1043
01:04:09,791 --> 01:04:12,791
everything else of everyone else and the people that it's going through.

1044
01:04:12,791 --> 01:04:17,431
It's giving, because what would the emergent complex behavior look like?

1045
01:04:19,031 --> 01:04:23,521
With all of our own actions, creating that emergent complex behavior look like

1046
01:04:23,541 --> 01:04:31,731
on a dishonest ledger, and then how would that, how would your mind spend 90 percent

1047
01:04:31,731 --> 01:04:37,941
of its time thinking about that rather than what would the emergent complex

1048
01:04:37,941 --> 01:04:39,871
behavior look like on an honest ledger?

1049
01:04:40,491 --> 01:04:44,631
So, and this is why, why this is such a fascinating topic and it's

1050
01:04:44,861 --> 01:04:48,461
such a fascinating deep topic because we can't, most people can't even

1051
01:04:48,461 --> 01:04:51,411
imagine that change, but I don't think there's a change at all.

1052
01:04:51,776 --> 01:04:55,726
I think it's just, we're, um, we'll continue to compete.

1053
01:04:56,166 --> 01:05:00,066
We'll continue to, even the competition itself is in

1054
01:05:00,066 --> 01:05:01,356
service of love and belonging.

1055
01:05:02,826 --> 01:05:04,446
We want to matter more for our family.

1056
01:05:04,446 --> 01:05:07,466
We want to be, we want to bring home, we want to go on more vacations.

1057
01:05:07,466 --> 01:05:09,866
We want to do, uh, because we want to matter.

1058
01:05:10,146 --> 01:05:13,416
We want to, uh, we want to leave them a legacy.

1059
01:05:13,416 --> 01:05:14,876
So we matter, right?

1060
01:05:14,906 --> 01:05:15,876
All of these things.

1061
01:05:16,256 --> 01:05:21,676
The competition itself is in service of love and belonging, and so that doesn't

1062
01:05:21,676 --> 01:05:27,016
change at all, it just, it just forces the productivity gains to us, so we

1063
01:05:27,016 --> 01:05:30,386
have more time to be able to think about the things we're to describe, we're

1064
01:05:30,386 --> 01:05:32,216
talking about right now on this podcast.

1065
01:05:32,954 --> 01:05:39,734
I love the optimism and the thing about this here that maybe just a little

1066
01:05:39,734 --> 01:05:44,054
more concrete in my thinking here to make it a little more concrete is

1067
01:05:44,074 --> 01:05:51,429
the lens of the way the 20th century played out in the sense of that The

1068
01:05:51,429 --> 01:05:53,399
world became a lot more irreligious.

1069
01:05:53,459 --> 01:05:58,339
It was, it was discarding belief systems and in, in doing so, it was,

1070
01:05:58,429 --> 01:06:03,389
it was discarding the framework that, that gave people meaning and purpose.

1071
01:06:03,479 --> 01:06:09,849
And, and so the idea that making the ledger honest, just.

1072
01:06:10,964 --> 01:06:16,734
takes away a lot of the, a lot of the issues that get people stuck, uh, and, uh,

1073
01:06:16,754 --> 01:06:23,634
away from, um, behaviors that are entirely self indulgent and self destructive.

1074
01:06:24,034 --> 01:06:25,704
Uh, I love that idea.

1075
01:06:25,834 --> 01:06:28,204
Is, is there anything more to it though?

1076
01:06:28,374 --> 01:06:30,613
Is, is there anything more to that?

1077
01:06:30,774 --> 01:06:38,364
That, um, another layer that a bit like Bitcoin will, will, um, make the

1078
01:06:38,364 --> 01:06:45,294
ledger honest, as you say, but is there anything else that, that the world

1079
01:06:45,824 --> 01:06:51,824
collectively or individuals who figure this thing out need to do to, to do that?

1080
01:06:52,589 --> 01:06:58,639
Help the rest of humanity understand this stuff and get over this meaning gap.

1081
01:06:58,933 --> 01:07:05,852
So, so here's the, here is the one thing I'd say, Luke, 90 percent of your time is

1082
01:07:05,852 --> 01:07:11,842
this thinking what other people are doing and not, not, uh, we're not doing through

1083
01:07:11,842 --> 01:07:13,562
the same filter that we're talking about.

1084
01:07:14,917 --> 01:07:18,327
Then you're going to be suboptimal at doing that for people.

1085
01:07:18,973 --> 01:07:24,973
So each of us has a role to move to a higher level, to explain, to have

1086
01:07:24,983 --> 01:07:26,563
empathy for what they're going through.

1087
01:07:26,653 --> 01:07:29,603
And by the way, I don't care what anybody does, everybody in Bitcoin,

1088
01:07:29,883 --> 01:07:33,263
like do whatever you want to, but we'll kind of, how I think about it

1089
01:07:33,263 --> 01:07:40,203
is, it is very hard to meet somebody and fight with them or call them names

1090
01:07:41,243 --> 01:07:42,673
and get them to change their mind.

1091
01:07:43,523 --> 01:07:44,973
They believe their world.

1092
01:07:45,383 --> 01:07:48,483
They believe it just as much as you believe your world, right?

1093
01:07:48,483 --> 01:07:49,743
They absolutely believe it.

1094
01:07:50,153 --> 01:07:55,313
So the way, the way through is through questions and inquisition and what meeting

1095
01:07:55,313 --> 01:08:01,077
them where they are and, and talking at about, um, some somewhere where they can

1096
01:08:01,077 --> 01:08:04,167
move to with hope because they're in fear.

1097
01:08:04,237 --> 01:08:07,757
in their existing system, and they need to see hope to move.

1098
01:08:08,347 --> 01:08:13,427
And so, so some of these things, and why I say that is why we all have a

1099
01:08:13,427 --> 01:08:15,407
different, we all make a difference.

1100
01:08:16,267 --> 01:08:17,667
Most people today have a smartphone.

1101
01:08:19,201 --> 01:08:21,461
If Steve Jobs wasn't around to make that difference.

1102
01:08:22,426 --> 01:08:23,376
What would that look like?

1103
01:08:23,376 --> 01:08:26,536
So one person can make a huge difference.

1104
01:08:26,806 --> 01:08:30,686
One person and a team of people driving towards, and the smartphone would

1105
01:08:30,686 --> 01:08:34,736
have come out eventually anyways, um, that would have, somebody would have

1106
01:08:34,746 --> 01:08:37,096
created it if it wasn't Steve Jobs.

1107
01:08:37,646 --> 01:08:39,306
But we live in a reality.

1108
01:08:39,656 --> 01:08:40,926
Somebody has an insight.

1109
01:08:42,191 --> 01:08:46,351
Or some, and, and they actually bend reality.

1110
01:08:47,441 --> 01:08:49,121
And then we all live in a new reality.

1111
01:08:49,121 --> 01:08:50,381
That's what's happening right now.

1112
01:08:50,381 --> 01:08:54,871
And the more and more of us that are moving to this new reality are bending

1113
01:08:55,021 --> 01:08:57,261
reality in favor of human progress.

1114
01:08:57,959 --> 01:09:02,839
back to, uh, something briefly touched on here in, in your first question,

1115
01:09:02,839 --> 01:09:07,989
Luke, this is an idea that, uh, that Luke and I have been riffing

1116
01:09:07,989 --> 01:09:09,919
on back and forth for a long time.

1117
01:09:10,309 --> 01:09:14,869
We, we both love your article, the finding signal in a noisy world,

1118
01:09:15,009 --> 01:09:15,249
Yeah,

1119
01:09:16,019 --> 01:09:19,389
the latest thoughts we've had around that is like, hang on a

1120
01:09:19,389 --> 01:09:22,209
minute, Bitcoin is not the signal.

1121
01:09:22,279 --> 01:09:22,779
It's just.

1122
01:09:23,269 --> 01:09:24,879
Code, it's just mathematics.

1123
01:09:25,089 --> 01:09:28,749
It's just the greatest noise removal tool ever invented.

1124
01:09:29,329 --> 01:09:30,939
So, what would you say to that?

1125
01:09:31,339 --> 01:09:32,269
I, I totally agree.

1126
01:09:33,019 --> 01:09:34,639
I, I, I, like, I totally agree.

1127
01:09:35,059 --> 01:09:37,849
Play this, play this forward.

1128
01:09:38,144 --> 01:09:41,949
And, and again, Mo uh, even Bitcoiners, the majority of

1129
01:09:41,954 --> 01:09:44,649
Bitcoiners are, are pricing Bitcoin.

1130
01:09:45,639 --> 01:09:49,736
And fiat instruments and think of what that's, it's actually

1131
01:09:49,736 --> 01:09:55,076
reinforcing their view of the fiat in instrument, having more value.

1132
01:09:55,076 --> 01:09:56,576
It actually looks like a trade.

1133
01:09:57,746 --> 01:10:02,776
You'd never, are you gonna sell your, your Bitcoin for a fiat instrument?

1134
01:10:02,956 --> 01:10:03,706
I know I'm not.

1135
01:10:04,376 --> 01:10:10,527
Um, uh, the, uh, and so I'm going to, trade for other things

1136
01:10:10,857 --> 01:10:12,807
that I want in that currency.

1137
01:10:14,177 --> 01:10:14,397
Right?

1138
01:10:14,597 --> 01:10:19,307
That is, um, and, and what, and, and that, that means that, that, like you

1139
01:10:19,307 --> 01:10:23,467
said, that, like that layer reduces all the noise over time and, and

1140
01:10:23,467 --> 01:10:26,897
society, because everything falls to its marginal cost of production.

1141
01:10:27,157 --> 01:10:30,947
We get richer, really simply, right?

1142
01:10:31,507 --> 01:10:39,627
The, the productivity of the entire world moves into, in service of the

1143
01:10:39,627 --> 01:10:45,842
entire world on Bitcoin, instead of getting, getting stolen from the world.

1144
01:10:46,987 --> 01:10:51,037
So as those prices fall, everyone gets richer in the world.

1145
01:10:51,987 --> 01:10:53,937
It can't, it can't, it can't stop that.

1146
01:10:53,957 --> 01:10:58,497
That's what removes the noise and that's what it gives the rise in consciousness

1147
01:10:58,497 --> 01:11:05,137
because you're not competing to fit like, um, when I see that the horrible

1148
01:11:05,137 --> 01:11:08,787
crime of what this does to people all over the world, and they don't know they

1149
01:11:08,787 --> 01:11:12,877
do it, it does it, and that reinforces what their actions, so they have more

1150
01:11:12,877 --> 01:11:15,067
people, more money against somebody else.

1151
01:11:15,867 --> 01:11:17,227
So they can feed their family.

1152
01:11:17,717 --> 01:11:21,397
And I see that perverse nature of the system all over the globe.

1153
01:11:22,367 --> 01:11:27,737
It, it makes you, it makes you sick if you actually spent any time in it.

1154
01:11:28,417 --> 01:11:35,007
Now, then, then there's been in Bitcoin, a bunch of people get mad and yell at it and

1155
01:11:35,007 --> 01:11:39,507
say those, those, those, uh, those people, and they actually make it stronger.

1156
01:11:40,322 --> 01:11:44,612
Or they, um, or, uh, and, or they'll hide all their money or they'll

1157
01:11:44,642 --> 01:11:47,222
protect all their money in the tech companies and they make it stronger.

1158
01:11:47,222 --> 01:11:50,412
And they're, or they'll, or they'll, there's no way that they would

1159
01:11:50,432 --> 01:11:54,032
allow the market to collapse and their houses to collapse by 90%.

1160
01:11:55,082 --> 01:12:00,272
So they vote for more, more spending, more manipulation of money to make it stronger.

1161
01:12:01,092 --> 01:12:06,222
So, so the system from the system is going to get worse and worse and worse.

1162
01:12:06,622 --> 01:12:09,252
And most people, including some Bitcoiners.

1163
01:12:10,937 --> 01:12:16,017
are making it stronger as well, um, through, through their actions.

1164
01:12:16,137 --> 01:12:20,587
And there is no escape from that system, making, making the world worse,

1165
01:12:21,017 --> 01:12:22,047
but you don't have to live in it.

1166
01:12:22,107 --> 01:12:25,927
You could spend more and more of your time in the new system and you're

1167
01:12:25,927 --> 01:12:32,277
going to find all sorts of incredible talent, people building, just...

1168
01:12:32,862 --> 01:12:39,002
Just the new rails of a peer to peer economy on top of this, that the

1169
01:12:39,002 --> 01:12:43,702
productivity, the productive force of all society moves to all society.

1170
01:12:43,712 --> 01:12:47,752
And it doesn't care where you are, you could be in Ghana, you could be

1171
01:12:47,752 --> 01:12:50,162
in Malawi, you could be anywhere.

1172
01:12:50,387 --> 01:12:54,427
And you can create value on this new system without asking anyone.

1173
01:12:54,906 --> 01:13:01,046
Yeah, I mean, 100%, that's why we're here, that's why we're having these

1174
01:13:01,046 --> 01:13:03,316
conversations, to make this happen faster.

1175
01:13:03,783 --> 01:13:07,973
Well, yeah, maybe even just to kind of clarify the last point slightly, like the,

1176
01:13:08,203 --> 01:13:14,818
the last thing that I still really, don't get past from, from Bitcoin as the noise

1177
01:13:14,818 --> 01:13:19,338
remover at that level is that there are still other ideas that I, that I think.

1178
01:13:19,663 --> 01:13:24,243
need to propagate in the, in the world other than, than Bitcoin, right?

1179
01:13:24,243 --> 01:13:28,363
And, and, uh, I guess, I guess the only point on that is more like, is

1180
01:13:28,363 --> 01:13:34,083
more like, um, the work isn't done when, when Bitcoin, uh, when the

1181
01:13:34,083 --> 01:13:37,463
future in the hyperbitcoinized world happens, the work isn't done, right?

1182
01:13:37,673 --> 01:13:37,953
Uh,

1183
01:13:38,063 --> 01:13:41,793
It's never done because we always are looking at the

1184
01:13:41,793 --> 01:13:43,243
next step and the next step.

1185
01:13:43,563 --> 01:13:46,823
The only, the difference is the productivity flows to

1186
01:13:46,823 --> 01:13:48,053
us instead of away from us.

1187
01:13:49,113 --> 01:13:53,308
And we free ourselves from the binds that chain us.

1188
01:13:53,518 --> 01:13:57,278
Because the productivity flows through us, to us, that's the, that's the,

1189
01:13:57,318 --> 01:14:02,438
but, but, but we'll constantly like forever find new ideas, find new

1190
01:14:02,438 --> 01:14:04,868
ideas, but you won't be forced on it.

1191
01:14:04,878 --> 01:14:09,238
You won't be on a treadmill that all of that is moving away from humanity.

1192
01:14:09,478 --> 01:14:10,718
It'll be moving to you.

1193
01:14:11,422 --> 01:14:13,032
Look at it this way, Luke.

1194
01:14:13,332 --> 01:14:15,832
Bitcoin is not a threat to civilized society.

1195
01:14:15,842 --> 01:14:18,132
It is the beginning of civilized society.

1196
01:14:18,542 --> 01:14:18,842
Yeah.

1197
01:14:18,842 --> 01:14:21,022
I didn't, I didn't mean to imply anything like that.

1198
01:14:21,032 --> 01:14:25,732
It's just more like, it's just more like, uh, keeping in mind the, the, the way

1199
01:14:25,732 --> 01:14:30,532
that society has, has moved forward, I guess the entire era of fiat money is

1200
01:14:30,562 --> 01:14:35,602
a bit of a, a bit of a, a blip would be, would be putting it lightly, right?

1201
01:14:35,992 --> 01:14:38,012
A real, a real bump in the road.

1202
01:14:38,052 --> 01:14:38,082
And,

1203
01:14:38,197 --> 01:14:43,237
And it's not, it's not just that, that's why this is such a big, but for me too,

1204
01:14:44,137 --> 01:14:48,497
as I went down this and essentially tried to disprove my theory, right, what, uh,

1205
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:54,870
why this would be such a, such a big deal because all of the history books we read,

1206
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:59,010
all of the books, like I read a lot of books, read a lot of history books, but

1207
01:14:59,010 --> 01:15:03,740
they all have this error code in them, not just fiat money, gold money, the error

1208
01:15:03,740 --> 01:15:10,312
code is, If you could control money, if you are higher in money, you stole the

1209
01:15:10,312 --> 01:15:16,552
productivity from everyone else, because the market forever is supposed to, the

1210
01:15:16,552 --> 01:15:18,332
free market forever is deflationary.

1211
01:15:18,942 --> 01:15:23,642
So all of our history code, all of our history has this error in it.

1212
01:15:25,132 --> 01:15:28,562
Because we would go to wars to be able to control money, right?

1213
01:15:28,562 --> 01:15:30,742
We would go to wars to be able to steal money.

1214
01:15:30,852 --> 01:15:36,592
And, and, and, and this, if it truly stays decentralized and secure, which I

1215
01:15:36,612 --> 01:15:42,295
think is inevitable, if as long as we make that happen, it changes that error code.

1216
01:15:42,325 --> 01:15:45,365
And it's, it's, it's, it's the biggest, it's the biggest

1217
01:15:45,425 --> 01:15:48,085
discovery humans have ever found.

1218
01:15:48,675 --> 01:15:50,480
Because it, it, it, it changed.

1219
01:15:50,480 --> 01:15:55,000
It's so big that, um, it, it doesn't feel like that to people

1220
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:56,350
that think it's a Ponzi scheme.

1221
01:15:56,350 --> 01:15:59,170
It doesn't feel like that with, from their own belief system.

1222
01:15:59,750 --> 01:16:04,430
But if it changes that belief, so all productivity forevermore flows to all

1223
01:16:04,435 --> 01:16:06,770
of society and everyone in the world.

1224
01:16:07,470 --> 01:16:11,690
Has an equal opportunity to actually allow that to happen and create more wealth

1225
01:16:11,700 --> 01:16:14,550
for themselves as it flows to society.

1226
01:16:15,510 --> 01:16:16,390
It's a pretty big deal.

1227
01:16:17,515 --> 01:16:23,555
So, back to this, um, ego death and being the protagonist of your own movie.

1228
01:16:24,725 --> 01:16:28,275
And that everyone sees themselves as the protagonist.

1229
01:16:28,425 --> 01:16:31,035
Like, how, how do you...

1230
01:16:31,750 --> 01:16:33,920
How do you get away from that?

1231
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:38,160
Do you, do you, does it help to see yourself as a comic relief side

1232
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:39,850
character instead of the protagonist?

1233
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:41,360
Is that dropping your ego?

1234
01:16:41,397 --> 01:16:41,697
Yeah.

1235
01:16:41,697 --> 01:16:47,617
So I really try to, for myself and I try.

1236
01:16:48,122 --> 01:16:50,432
To check my ego all the time.

1237
01:16:50,492 --> 01:16:52,082
It's not about me, right?

1238
01:16:52,162 --> 01:16:53,912
It really isn't.

1239
01:16:55,552 --> 01:17:03,032
And a lot of these lessons, I described some, the victim, the party example.

1240
01:17:03,432 --> 01:17:07,182
Those are examples that I've come to in my own life.

1241
01:17:07,932 --> 01:17:12,682
To be able to find the things in me that were holding back my, my world.

1242
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:17,460
And so the, the, the truth is I'm just describing some of my own path

1243
01:17:18,020 --> 01:17:22,830
to be able to get to lessons that went, because, because I, I used to

1244
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:28,840
think, okay, if the victim is doing this and they can't see it, um, and.

1245
01:17:29,125 --> 01:17:33,295
The billionaire who has no time for his family is doing it and they can't see it.

1246
01:17:33,635 --> 01:17:38,535
And this other person is doing it, you can't see it for their own

1247
01:17:38,545 --> 01:17:41,665
reasons, whatever, and it was all in service of love and belonging.

1248
01:17:42,845 --> 01:17:46,615
Then I must be too, because I'm only human too, right?

1249
01:17:47,085 --> 01:17:48,345
And what would that look like?

1250
01:17:48,345 --> 01:17:52,265
And what I, what I, what I realized is I would take credit for

1251
01:17:52,265 --> 01:17:53,815
everything that was good in my life.

1252
01:17:54,310 --> 01:17:55,200
Just like they would.

1253
01:17:56,500 --> 01:17:58,520
Um, and I would actually make it bigger.

1254
01:17:58,590 --> 01:17:58,900
Right?

1255
01:17:59,550 --> 01:18:03,910
And I would, and anything that would bad was happening, who had to be

1256
01:18:03,910 --> 01:18:08,400
somebody else's fault because it wasn't because I, because it couldn't be me.

1257
01:18:09,460 --> 01:18:12,370
And, and so I, I attacked all of those areas.

1258
01:18:13,340 --> 01:18:20,930
Realizing it was me and changed me to be able to, to, to remove what I would say

1259
01:18:20,950 --> 01:18:26,740
that ego and that blindness from what was happening in, uh, in, uh, in my life.

1260
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:32,270
And as I removed them, they were, they were huge kind of zero to

1261
01:18:32,270 --> 01:18:34,040
one type moments for myself.

1262
01:18:34,380 --> 01:18:37,960
Because everything got easier, everything got easier, and

1263
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:39,320
it continues to get easier.

1264
01:18:39,380 --> 01:18:45,510
So I, I, I, I'm constantly checking in on that very same thing, because if,

1265
01:18:45,790 --> 01:18:50,210
if we're all bound to fall into these same traps, and I'm only human too,

1266
01:18:50,210 --> 01:18:52,200
then I'm bound to fall into them too.

1267
01:18:52,789 --> 01:18:55,689
it sounds very familiar to what I've been going through

1268
01:18:55,709 --> 01:18:57,789
the last couple of years here.

1269
01:18:58,202 --> 01:19:05,272
I mean, it's so powerful and it reminds me a lot of stoicism.

1270
01:19:05,272 --> 01:19:07,252
Like, would you describe it as stoicism?

1271
01:19:07,262 --> 01:19:08,832
Like, is, is this stoicism?

1272
01:19:10,082 --> 01:19:13,512
And again, that's why I say stoicism, enlightenment, some of these

1273
01:19:14,302 --> 01:19:18,072
different, I think some of these things, and I've read a lot on these

1274
01:19:18,092 --> 01:19:23,202
various different topics, and I think they're all different descriptions

1275
01:19:24,272 --> 01:19:26,242
of some of the same type of thing.

1276
01:19:27,117 --> 01:19:31,897
Some, and if that, if that, if that word or that frame of reference is

1277
01:19:31,907 --> 01:19:36,377
the frame of reference you want to use to be able to get here, then great.

1278
01:19:36,947 --> 01:19:40,617
But I think it's so, but I do believe that some of these things are,

1279
01:19:40,777 --> 01:19:42,387
yes, they're, they're connected.

1280
01:19:42,807 --> 01:19:48,047
let's pull on that string a bit further, uh, would you describe yourself

1281
01:19:48,437 --> 01:19:55,517
as, uh, uh, a consensualist or a libertarian, an anarcho capitalist, uh,

1282
01:19:55,947 --> 01:19:56,757
None of none.

1283
01:19:57,267 --> 01:19:59,732
None, none of these, none of these things.

1284
01:20:00,032 --> 01:20:05,032
So when, when, when somebody says, when, when somebody puts you in a

1285
01:20:05,032 --> 01:20:12,172
label, they're, they're immediately describing, uh, you, you, you get put

1286
01:20:12,172 --> 01:20:17,902
into a box and they, they, they're describing the, your view of, uh, or

1287
01:20:17,992 --> 01:20:19,762
their view of you through their lens.

1288
01:20:20,682 --> 01:20:22,332
Um, I hate boxes.

1289
01:20:22,542 --> 01:20:23,052
I'm an entrepreneur.

1290
01:20:23,797 --> 01:20:28,357
Um, like you put me in a box, I want to, as soon as somebody is in this

1291
01:20:28,357 --> 01:20:33,357
narrow box and trying to define a person by this narrow, this means you're

1292
01:20:33,357 --> 01:20:37,727
this, um, I, I want to scream, right?

1293
01:20:37,727 --> 01:20:40,837
I like the, I want to look elsewhere.

1294
01:20:40,847 --> 01:20:43,717
In fact, same thing, same, same thing I did with my book.

1295
01:20:43,717 --> 01:20:44,587
Same thing I did with Bitcoin.

1296
01:20:45,317 --> 01:20:46,777
I want to prove the other side.

1297
01:20:46,777 --> 01:20:49,917
I want to take the other side and try to fight, fight to bank.

1298
01:20:49,927 --> 01:20:52,607
And then once I understand it on both sides of the...

1299
01:20:52,607 --> 01:20:53,327
Both issues.

1300
01:20:53,687 --> 01:20:56,897
I want to come back to understand my own place in it.

1301
01:20:56,927 --> 01:20:57,867
What do I want to do?

1302
01:21:00,757 --> 01:21:04,987
Uh, capitalism today when people talk about capitalism or socialism, they

1303
01:21:04,987 --> 01:21:06,707
don't have a fucking clue, right?

1304
01:21:07,047 --> 01:21:14,747
Like they're, they're, and honestly, like these are, these words are so misused

1305
01:21:15,107 --> 01:21:18,667
to, to describe, to drive people apart.

1306
01:21:19,617 --> 01:21:22,537
Um, and so no, I, I, I can't stand labels.

1307
01:21:23,837 --> 01:21:27,547
no, I, I absolutely agree, like the word liberal and the word liberal.

1308
01:21:27,772 --> 01:21:32,162
Progress, or literally have the opposite meaning of what they used to have,

1309
01:21:32,572 --> 01:21:34,692
and it's true for many of these terms.

1310
01:21:35,032 --> 01:21:39,672
So, that begs the question, would you call yourself a Bitcoiner,

1311
01:21:40,302 --> 01:21:42,152
or is that boxing you in as well?

1312
01:21:42,462 --> 01:21:50,202
Um, so I would call myself a bitcoiner and I would call it so, so, but probably

1313
01:21:50,442 --> 01:21:51,032
is that?

1314
01:21:51,172 --> 01:21:51,332
Yeah,

1315
01:21:51,602 --> 01:21:51,822
so.

1316
01:21:51,822 --> 01:21:57,392
And again, a lot of what we just described is, is why do I come

1317
01:21:57,392 --> 01:22:03,872
across as a bitcoiner, um, in the way that I, I'm yelling at, because.

1318
01:22:04,287 --> 01:22:07,407
Somebody else would have a different, uh, view of what a Bitcoin is.

1319
01:22:07,887 --> 01:22:08,157
Right?

1320
01:22:08,457 --> 01:22:13,037
So to to, to my friends, to, to my friends outside of Bitcoin.

1321
01:22:14,237 --> 01:22:16,463
A lot of them don't even know, right?

1322
01:22:16,463 --> 01:22:19,433
They, they know, we'll chat about the, the other things.

1323
01:22:19,438 --> 01:22:23,243
I'll meet them where they're, I could care less whether I, I want them to be here.

1324
01:22:24,353 --> 01:22:25,673
I want them to understand.

1325
01:22:25,793 --> 01:22:31,133
But, but I've had friends since, like, a lot of friends since four

1326
01:22:31,133 --> 01:22:35,263
years old, and really good friends, uh, like incredible friends.

1327
01:22:35,648 --> 01:22:37,118
That still aren't all the way here yet.

1328
01:22:37,841 --> 01:22:41,761
So I don't know what that means when you say, call yourself a Bitcoiner

1329
01:22:41,821 --> 01:22:43,661
because I'm also this person.

1330
01:22:43,661 --> 01:22:44,671
I'm also this person.

1331
01:22:44,671 --> 01:22:48,251
I show up as this person, this same person all the time, but

1332
01:22:48,251 --> 01:22:50,681
it's very, it's not one box.

1333
01:22:52,151 --> 01:22:53,741
Just, just messing.

1334
01:22:54,661 --> 01:22:59,971
Well, so have you given up on these old friends or?

1335
01:23:00,451 --> 01:23:02,201
No, that's kind of what I'm getting at.

1336
01:23:02,201 --> 01:23:03,521
I love, I love them to death.

1337
01:23:04,131 --> 01:23:08,001
They, uh, like the, um, like, why would I give up on, uh,

1338
01:23:08,061 --> 01:23:10,971
No, but I mean, I'm just trying to play the devil's advocate here.

1339
01:23:10,971 --> 01:23:15,461
So, so like, the reason I asked that question is you sort of described

1340
01:23:15,491 --> 01:23:19,751
given, given up on trying to make them bitcoiners themselves.

1341
01:23:21,261 --> 01:23:22,461
And isn't that giving up?

1342
01:23:23,016 --> 01:23:28,236
No, so, so if you see something in somebody else that they can't see,

1343
01:23:29,236 --> 01:23:34,946
right, then my obligation from, from my, at least what I, what I think, I,

1344
01:23:35,592 --> 01:23:37,972
I, I would say almost never.

1345
01:23:38,162 --> 01:23:43,192
I, I want to, don't, I don't want to say never because even sometimes I'll catch

1346
01:23:43,332 --> 01:23:48,112
myself, but, uh, but So close to never.

1347
01:23:48,752 --> 01:23:50,142
I was saying that never.

1348
01:23:50,692 --> 01:23:53,002
Talk about people behind their back in a negative way.

1349
01:23:54,362 --> 01:23:56,492
Never, almost never.

1350
01:23:56,842 --> 01:24:03,442
The, um, and, and when that happens, I just kind of tune out.

1351
01:24:03,442 --> 01:24:07,222
I move, move, move away because, but I will always.

1352
01:24:07,972 --> 01:24:11,122
Tell somebody one on one and I'll turn their sign around.

1353
01:24:11,992 --> 01:24:15,502
And as a result, I have a staggering amount of time.

1354
01:24:15,732 --> 01:24:18,582
People, people think I must be busy all the time.

1355
01:24:19,412 --> 01:24:21,362
I feel like I have the most time.

1356
01:24:22,122 --> 01:24:26,082
I have the most time for, and because I only spend it with people I really

1357
01:24:26,082 --> 01:24:28,672
care about, but my obligation.

1358
01:24:29,437 --> 01:24:31,527
is not to make them change.

1359
01:24:33,107 --> 01:24:38,957
My obligation is for my own integrity to tell them, so I don't talk behind it.

1360
01:24:39,187 --> 01:24:45,807
But if they want to stay where they are, and I still like them, and

1361
01:24:45,817 --> 01:24:50,437
they still, a whole bunch of other stuff that we, then, then, then

1362
01:24:50,697 --> 01:24:52,007
they don't have to change for me.

1363
01:24:54,102 --> 01:24:59,482
My obligation is I can't, I won't talk about them behind their back.

1364
01:24:59,482 --> 01:25:02,322
My obligation is I need to tell them, right?

1365
01:25:04,052 --> 01:25:08,902
Think about many conversations with you and I, right?

1366
01:25:08,902 --> 01:25:11,082
Some of the deeper conversations, right?

1367
01:25:11,482 --> 01:25:13,362
That's what it looks like to be a friend.

1368
01:25:13,807 --> 01:25:16,507
That's what it looks like to care about somebody else.

1369
01:25:16,847 --> 01:25:20,767
And that's what, and sometimes in that, it drives such a bond and

1370
01:25:20,767 --> 01:25:21,907
they do the same thing for you.

1371
01:25:21,907 --> 01:25:25,027
And then when you're doing that, those people care about you too.

1372
01:25:25,377 --> 01:25:31,357
And, and you end up having like a hundred X more time because

1373
01:25:31,357 --> 01:25:32,457
you're spending it valuably.

1374
01:25:32,903 --> 01:25:34,863
Yeah, yeah, I can relate totally.

1375
01:25:35,113 --> 01:25:41,503
But I do, like, I hang out with my quote unquote normie friends less

1376
01:25:41,543 --> 01:25:45,723
and less just because, uh, there's...

1377
01:25:46,398 --> 01:25:52,288
It's simply harder and harder to find common ground of subjects to talk about.

1378
01:25:53,023 --> 01:25:53,223
Yeah.

1379
01:25:53,223 --> 01:25:56,543
So I don't, I don't, um, I don't at all.

1380
01:25:57,143 --> 01:26:01,593
And, uh, and, and I will say this, there's some people though in the

1381
01:26:01,593 --> 01:26:03,173
Bitcoin space that have become.

1382
01:26:04,033 --> 01:26:09,623
I would say lifelong friends that and how fast that happens and like, just like a

1383
01:26:09,623 --> 01:26:13,473
massive connection because we can talk about some of these things that have

1384
01:26:13,603 --> 01:26:18,463
at a very deep level, like it's, it's been, it's, and I'm spending more time

1385
01:26:18,473 --> 01:26:24,243
now in, in helping entrepreneurs create theirs on their, where, what they think

1386
01:26:24,573 --> 01:26:28,213
they're going to change the world in their own regard and talk a bit coin.

1387
01:26:28,243 --> 01:26:29,203
And I'm loving it.

1388
01:26:29,213 --> 01:26:30,863
So I'm spending more time.

1389
01:26:31,188 --> 01:26:37,138
And in that, because I, uh, because I love that, but no, I don't feel, I

1390
01:26:37,138 --> 01:26:41,568
don't have the same thing at all with my normie friends that you just said.

1391
01:26:42,038 --> 01:26:42,488
Not a bit.

1392
01:26:43,198 --> 01:26:47,668
It could be that I'm spending most of the year abroad also, like I guess I

1393
01:26:47,668 --> 01:26:52,268
would hang out with them more if I, if I had been back in Sweden and I, I try,

1394
01:26:52,318 --> 01:26:55,498
I do try to meet them like twice a year.

1395
01:26:55,518 --> 01:26:58,408
Like this is this close circle of close friends.

1396
01:27:00,198 --> 01:27:00,678
But I don't know.

1397
01:27:00,938 --> 01:27:05,728
And, and I do care for them as much as I, uh, as much as I used to, uh, absolutely.

1398
01:27:06,008 --> 01:27:10,128
It's just that I find, I find it harder to talk to them since the more

1399
01:27:10,128 --> 01:27:13,458
you move into the future yourself and the more you move into this

1400
01:27:14,828 --> 01:27:18,688
completely different set of ideas and different set, different way of...

1401
01:27:19,113 --> 01:27:24,863
viewing the world than what they're used to, uh, the harder it gets to, to

1402
01:27:24,863 --> 01:27:29,623
like communicate on, on the same, on the same level, like finding something

1403
01:27:29,643 --> 01:27:34,353
common to the, so you end up having more shallow conversations like about the

1404
01:27:34,353 --> 01:27:36,983
weather and how, how's your car doing.

1405
01:27:37,383 --> 01:27:41,343
But if you just replace a bun, if you take, take Bitcoin out, and you

1406
01:27:41,343 --> 01:27:44,703
talk about some of the conversations we had on this podcast, right?

1407
01:27:44,703 --> 01:27:50,343
Without, even without Bitcoin, they were deep conversations without Bitcoin, right?

1408
01:27:50,493 --> 01:27:55,593
That could impact your and, and, and, and, and so, um, yeah, anyways,

1409
01:27:55,598 --> 01:27:59,403
I don't, I don't find if it's just surface conversation all the time.

1410
01:28:00,048 --> 01:28:04,368
If it's not, like, none of my friends look like that, right, they're just,

1411
01:28:05,268 --> 01:28:10,468
none of the people I spend, now, some are tremendously fun and everything

1412
01:28:10,468 --> 01:28:14,158
else, and they wouldn't go nearly as deep as this, and they know I would,

1413
01:28:14,468 --> 01:28:20,003
and I, and, and, and, but, but again, they're still lifelong friends.

1414
01:28:20,512 --> 01:28:25,852
Yeah, I mean, every person is different and like most of my old friends, like

1415
01:28:25,882 --> 01:28:31,182
the people you meet in your youth, you, you keep being friends because

1416
01:28:31,192 --> 01:28:34,382
you have a lot of history together and they're fun to hang out with.

1417
01:28:35,032 --> 01:28:39,042
And then, then people change over time, of course, but, but still,

1418
01:28:39,527 --> 01:28:43,217
Here's what, here's what I think, here's what I think happens, um, and

1419
01:28:43,227 --> 01:28:47,807
you can construct it, you can actually create a pro, I, I think in processes,

1420
01:28:47,807 --> 01:28:51,537
I think first, what happens, how do I think in a process to be able

1421
01:28:51,537 --> 01:28:53,467
to, to make this happen more often?

1422
01:28:54,107 --> 01:29:00,187
So, I think what happens is, is Most relationships go through kind of a

1423
01:29:00,447 --> 01:29:05,887
vulnerability based trust, and at the top of that pyramid would look like this.

1424
01:29:05,887 --> 01:29:06,997
How are you doing it?

1425
01:29:06,997 --> 01:29:10,057
Killing it, killing it, and nobody goes, and there's no depth, right?

1426
01:29:10,077 --> 01:29:14,627
And people in social media, a lot of them are up here.

1427
01:29:14,902 --> 01:29:18,562
Thinking they have millions of friends and it's no, nothing, it's no depth

1428
01:29:19,062 --> 01:29:23,032
and for vulnerability based trust to exist, somebody has to go first,

1429
01:29:23,082 --> 01:29:24,422
they have to show vulnerability.

1430
01:29:24,652 --> 01:29:28,122
Some of what we're doing in this podcast is showing vulnerability, right?

1431
01:29:28,502 --> 01:29:29,532
Somebody has to go first.

1432
01:29:30,342 --> 01:29:33,462
And then the other person on the other side of that agreement

1433
01:29:33,512 --> 01:29:38,397
has to, or the relationship has to either fail They're insane.

1434
01:29:38,497 --> 01:29:43,467
I'm going to eject or meet them and show vulnerability and go, go back and forth.

1435
01:29:43,467 --> 01:29:46,507
And then it goes down and then the bottom, as you go down there,

1436
01:29:46,507 --> 01:29:49,927
you know, those people who would always be there for you forever.

1437
01:29:50,197 --> 01:29:52,807
You didn't, you couldn't, if you didn't see them for 10 years,

1438
01:29:52,857 --> 01:29:54,937
they were right back in deep.

1439
01:29:55,257 --> 01:29:56,727
Everyone has those relationships.

1440
01:29:57,987 --> 01:29:58,967
How did they form?

1441
01:30:00,167 --> 01:30:03,537
And they typically formed over an event, a time event.

1442
01:30:03,782 --> 01:30:07,982
Where you were, you and the other person were going through a hard time or,

1443
01:30:08,112 --> 01:30:14,932
or compressed time school or any sort of, uh, any sort of group you were in

1444
01:30:15,312 --> 01:30:19,282
that you were compressed going through things and it happened by chance.

1445
01:30:20,252 --> 01:30:20,622
Right?

1446
01:30:20,742 --> 01:30:25,252
That vulnerability based trust, you made a mistake, you found out who was there

1447
01:30:25,252 --> 01:30:32,742
for you, and then you got to the bottom and you got those few people in your life.

1448
01:30:32,912 --> 01:30:37,972
What if, if that's how it happens, um, if that's how it happens, and it

1449
01:30:37,972 --> 01:30:42,712
happens in these timeframes, and then those people stick forever, couldn't

1450
01:30:42,712 --> 01:30:43,972
you make it happen all the time?

1451
01:30:44,947 --> 01:30:47,657
Yeah, I was just about to say, I think you know where you're going

1452
01:30:47,667 --> 01:30:52,037
with this, like, that's the argument for being vulnerable to everyone and

1453
01:30:52,037 --> 01:30:54,007
just showing yourself as you are.

1454
01:30:54,372 --> 01:30:57,452
You can make it happen anywhere in your life, all the time, and

1455
01:30:57,452 --> 01:30:58,702
you can just measure who sticks.

1456
01:30:59,472 --> 01:31:04,832
And, and so, um, and, and, and, and literally that's, that's, it, I, I just

1457
01:31:04,832 --> 01:31:07,492
described this like, it's that easy.

1458
01:31:08,182 --> 01:31:09,222
It is that easy.

1459
01:31:09,612 --> 01:31:15,592
Um, and, and, and, and so, so what that looks like is if I, if that's what I do

1460
01:31:15,632 --> 01:31:21,252
everywhere in every relation, uh, in every relationship and, and what you, what you

1461
01:31:21,252 --> 01:31:26,602
do is, um, yes, sometimes along the way, some people will stab you in the back.

1462
01:31:27,537 --> 01:31:34,257
And then they, uh, um, but if you, if you fear and you don't do that, of that,

1463
01:31:35,407 --> 01:31:41,057
most people are really generally great people, but most, you'll find more great

1464
01:31:41,057 --> 01:31:43,677
people by doing, uh, by doing that.

1465
01:31:43,677 --> 01:31:45,557
And your life will expand by those people.

1466
01:31:46,149 --> 01:31:50,829
Absolutely, I mean, that's, that describes this pod to a large extent, like,

1467
01:31:50,829 --> 01:31:52,339
that's what we're trying to do here.

1468
01:31:52,849 --> 01:31:56,879
We take great care in being sincere with who we are and what we do.

1469
01:31:56,889 --> 01:32:01,809
Like, uh, we don't want to be, I think someone said, I don't remember who

1470
01:32:01,839 --> 01:32:06,389
the quote is from, but, but, uh, that honesty is the currency of the future,

1471
01:32:06,409 --> 01:32:10,779
the real honesty, and that explains the phenomenon, like Joe Rogan, for instance,

1472
01:32:10,819 --> 01:32:15,389
like you can't really, if you do hours and hours and hours of conversations,

1473
01:32:15,909 --> 01:32:17,359
you can't really do that by.

1474
01:32:17,769 --> 01:32:21,599
Playing a role and being someone else than you actually are.

1475
01:32:21,869 --> 01:32:22,859
And I truly believe that.

1476
01:32:22,859 --> 01:32:25,509
And I, I think that's, uh, that's very important.

1477
01:32:25,569 --> 01:32:25,709
And

1478
01:32:25,949 --> 01:32:27,739
I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be here right now.

1479
01:32:27,769 --> 01:32:29,099
We wouldn't be friends, right?

1480
01:32:29,129 --> 01:32:33,389
They, like, that's, that's how the world, uh, that that's how the world works.

1481
01:32:33,939 --> 01:32:35,979
Um, and, uh, out of these.

1482
01:32:36,454 --> 01:32:39,924
These moments, then, then people, uh, people that make

1483
01:32:39,924 --> 01:32:40,884
a difference in your life.

1484
01:32:41,762 --> 01:32:43,212
Absolutely beautiful.

1485
01:32:43,582 --> 01:32:47,612
So, um, remember that kids, and don't forget to like, subscribe,

1486
01:32:47,612 --> 01:32:48,902
and brush your fucking teeth.

1487
01:32:52,922 --> 01:32:57,902
I think I think with that, uh, we're yeah, definitely conscious

1488
01:32:57,922 --> 01:32:59,372
of the time here a little bit.

1489
01:32:59,482 --> 01:33:03,962
And maybe the last thing to just hit on a little bit after

1490
01:33:03,962 --> 01:33:05,702
the nice deep conversation.

1491
01:33:06,252 --> 01:33:11,042
Maybe a little bit more about the fun event happening in the middle

1492
01:33:11,042 --> 01:33:12,872
of the Atlantic Ocean in March.

1493
01:33:12,927 --> 01:33:13,277
Yeah.

1494
01:33:13,447 --> 01:33:13,777
Yeah.

1495
01:33:14,867 --> 01:33:18,597
Uh, Bitcoin Atlantis, um, uh, get there.

1496
01:33:18,677 --> 01:33:21,827
It's gonna, it's, I'm really looking forward to it.

1497
01:33:21,827 --> 01:33:25,947
I'm not looking at it, not just because I'm helping organize a block

1498
01:33:25,967 --> 01:33:30,467
there, but, uh, but it's, we have some surprises there and some events

1499
01:33:30,537 --> 01:33:31,817
there that are just going to be.

1500
01:33:32,527 --> 01:33:33,687
It's just incredible.

1501
01:33:34,527 --> 01:33:37,677
It's one of those conferences that I'm really looking forward to.

1502
01:33:37,707 --> 01:33:41,597
I'm bringing my family and I know a bunch of others are too.

1503
01:33:43,052 --> 01:33:47,232
Yeah, for those of you who don't know, both me and Jeff are advisors

1504
01:33:47,302 --> 01:33:49,622
to the Free Madeira organization.

1505
01:33:49,702 --> 01:33:53,082
So we're, we're, we're helping out with this conference and with,

1506
01:33:53,172 --> 01:33:55,692
with, uh, some stuff in Madeira.

1507
01:33:55,802 --> 01:33:57,342
Uh, so, so we're.

1508
01:33:57,797 --> 01:33:58,527
Absolutely.

1509
01:33:58,527 --> 01:34:00,207
Look, looking forward to doing this.

1510
01:34:00,787 --> 01:34:05,377
I'll be on Madeira for like three weeks, a couple of weeks before and one week after.

1511
01:34:05,417 --> 01:34:10,217
And we're going to try to make it the best thing ever, which is easy on Madeira

1512
01:34:10,227 --> 01:34:12,757
because Madeira is already a paradise.

1513
01:34:13,007 --> 01:34:16,637
So you'll have a swell time regardless of there's a conference or not.

1514
01:34:17,442 --> 01:34:18,022
Absolutely.

1515
01:34:18,022 --> 01:34:18,422
Fantastic.

1516
01:34:18,792 --> 01:34:23,652
And, uh, Jeff, is there anything else you'd like to bring up or anywhere

1517
01:34:23,652 --> 01:34:25,362
you'd like to direct our listeners to?

1518
01:34:26,537 --> 01:34:32,497
Uh, no, I would just say the, um, probably just a carry on of what

1519
01:34:32,497 --> 01:34:33,607
we were talking about before.

1520
01:34:34,147 --> 01:34:35,187
I'm often asked.

1521
01:34:35,787 --> 01:34:39,047
How do, uh, um, how do I spend more time in this?

1522
01:34:39,887 --> 01:34:41,107
Um, and what do I do?

1523
01:34:41,177 --> 01:34:43,347
I don't, I'm working a job.

1524
01:34:43,347 --> 01:34:46,437
I don't want to, I'm not, I'm spending all my time up there.

1525
01:34:47,207 --> 01:34:49,347
Um, just start, right?

1526
01:34:49,377 --> 01:34:53,237
The, I, I gave this, uh, uh, uh, advice.

1527
01:34:53,682 --> 01:34:57,972
Two years ago to somebody that, uh, just asked me for coffee in Vancouver.

1528
01:34:57,972 --> 01:35:01,992
I went for coffee and she was stuck in her fiat job and everything else.

1529
01:35:02,092 --> 01:35:04,712
And I just said, this is an open network.

1530
01:35:04,722 --> 01:35:09,092
I said, start, start meeting people, go to, to create content, do whatever you

1531
01:35:09,362 --> 01:35:13,062
want in the thing, find the thing that you love in this and find the people

1532
01:35:13,062 --> 01:35:15,992
that you love and it'll vibrate to it.

1533
01:35:16,442 --> 01:35:17,252
So she started.

1534
01:35:17,582 --> 01:35:21,702
Uh, doing that and she was just, uh, she was just hired by, uh, Alex

1535
01:35:22,092 --> 01:35:27,682
Gladstein at the Human Rights Foundation and, uh, um, and she's over the top

1536
01:35:28,062 --> 01:35:31,602
because of what she's created, created and her content that she's created.

1537
01:35:31,602 --> 01:35:33,842
Now she's working exactly where she wants to.

1538
01:35:33,842 --> 01:35:36,142
And so she sent me a note saying like, it's just.

1539
01:35:36,492 --> 01:35:42,702
That coffee precipitated a whole bunch of events that, uh, that,

1540
01:35:42,702 --> 01:35:45,322
uh, then turned into, into this.

1541
01:35:45,832 --> 01:35:49,822
And so, uh, there is a ton of opportunity in this space there.

1542
01:35:49,832 --> 01:35:50,882
It's exploding.

1543
01:35:51,432 --> 01:35:54,172
Um, the entrepreneurs that are building this, if you don't want to be an

1544
01:35:54,182 --> 01:35:58,432
entrepreneur, go find a company that's, uh, that's building on into this,

1545
01:35:58,512 --> 01:36:01,942
that you really like the values of that company and what they're doing.

1546
01:36:02,382 --> 01:36:07,382
Um, You could look at our portfolio company in EgoDeath, most of those

1547
01:36:07,392 --> 01:36:13,032
companies are hiring, um, and the opportunities are endless in this space.

1548
01:36:14,046 --> 01:36:14,926
absolutely.

1549
01:36:14,986 --> 01:36:20,286
Just, just be there and follow the orange glowing light as our friend Izzy puts it.

1550
01:36:20,966 --> 01:36:24,736
It's just focus on the orange glowing light and the rest will sort itself out.

1551
01:36:26,216 --> 01:36:29,676
Jeff, it's been absolutely amazing to have this conversation with you.

1552
01:36:29,726 --> 01:36:32,916
You're always welcome back to the show and looking forward a

1553
01:36:32,916 --> 01:36:34,566
ton to seeing you in Madeira.

1554
01:36:35,046 --> 01:36:40,796
Uh, I, I treasure you, truly treasure your friendship and I appreciate you taking

1555
01:36:40,796 --> 01:36:42,846
your time to do this with us a lot, so.

1556
01:36:43,436 --> 01:36:44,496
Right back at you, buddy.

1557
01:36:44,866 --> 01:36:45,546
You too, Luke.

1558
01:36:45,976 --> 01:36:46,396
Thanks.

1559
01:36:47,066 --> 01:36:47,816
Thanks a lot, Jeff.

1560
01:36:47,816 --> 01:36:49,386
This has been the Freedom Footprint Show.

1561
01:36:49,776 --> 01:36:50,566
Thanks for listening.