Jimmy Song on Fiat Money and God - Freedom Footprint Show 57

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I want Bitcoiners mostly to read this book.

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like if non Bitcoiners read it, that's fine.

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but Mostly, I want Bitcoiners to read it because I want them to really understand

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the depths of the fiat depravity that we're experiencing in this world.

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I will say one thing, Knut, I think fiat money is an atheist money.

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That whole debate, are we really going down that part of the rabbit hole?

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Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show, the Bitcoin

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philosophy show with Knut Svanholm and me, Luke the Pseudo Finn.

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Today, we're joined by Jimmy Song, developer, educator, and author of

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four Bitcoin books, including his newest title, Fiat Ruins Everything.

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In this episode, Jimmy walks us through his reflections on the Bitcoin

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adoption he's witnessed in his travels.

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We talk about his book, Fiat Ruins Everything, and we question the

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nature of AI, agency, and propaganda.

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But then We dive deep into religion with a debate on atheism, morality,

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Christianity, and the effects of fiat money on these views.

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We hope you'll find this episode thought provoking.

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But before we jump in, a quick reminder that the best way to support the show

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And finally, we want to thank today's sponsors.

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Amber app, Wasabi wallet.

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orange pill app, the bitcoin way, and geyser.

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All their information is in the description.

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We'll be talking a bit more about them later.

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And now without further ado, here is Jimmy Song on the Freedom Footprint show.

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Jimmy, welcome to the Freedom Footprint show.

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Thanks for joining us.

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Well, thanks for having me.

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I'm glad to be on the show.

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lovely to have you here, Jimmy.

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It's been a while.

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Uh, we saw you in Riga last, I believe.

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Uh, and from what I know, after that, you've been sort of traveling the

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world with your family, your great big family, and uh, seeing how fiat

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ruins everything everywhere, right?

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pretty much, yeah, uh, and uh, yeah, I guess it's, it's been over a year

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since I've seen you, but yeah, that, um, last year's Baltic Honey Badger

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was, uh, was when we started the trip.

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Uh, we finished the trip in June and, uh, and another Baltic Honey Badger

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has happened since then, so yeah, it's, it's kind of crazy how time flies.

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Yeah.

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So what, what countries have you visited?

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Is there a list, like, is that list too long?

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Is there

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There's, uh, we, we visited 200, I mean, we were traveling for 277 days

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and we visited 34 countries, so I can name them all for you, it's, it's not

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too bad, it's, uh, Latvia, Austria, uh, Italy, Vatican, Switzerland.

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Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Peru, Colombia, Spain, Morocco, Palestine,

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Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Turkey, Georgia, Armenia, UAE, India,

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um, Singapore, Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, Taiwan,

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um, Korea, Japan, Fiji, New Zealand.

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Yeah, so I, I think I named all of them.

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Wow, what a list, and like, the obvious question is, to which the answer

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is probably the title of your book, but what is your main takeaway from

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like, visiting all these countries?

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What have, what is the conclusion?

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Well, I mean, the, the main reason for the trip is because I like

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traveling and I've always wanted to travel with my family and so on.

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Uh, the, the main takeaway would be that it's, it's good to spend lots of time with

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family and go do adventures like this.

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Unfortunately, fiat money makes that very difficult because

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everyone is up to their eyeballs in debt and debt service becomes...

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Sort of the restricting thing for most people, you have a mortgage or a car

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loan or a student loan or you have a job that you need to be at to pay off

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all of that stuff so you can't leave.

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Um, and that, that's the real tragedy for me, is that more

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people don't get to do this because they're trapped by fiat money.

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We're all in a ha, or, we're not, but all the fiat people are in a hamster's

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wheel, uh, and that's like, for me, that's a lot of what Bitcoin is all

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about, it's about escaping that hamster's wheel, um, and, so, to Bitcoin adoption

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in the different countries, like, what, um, Where are the communities?

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Like where, where, where are we in the world?

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Like, uh, was there places that surprised you that adoption was, you know, more

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widespread in certain places than others?

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Yeah, I mean, it's a little hard to answer that question because I went

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to a lot of these countries and met with Bitcoiners, so of course they're

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already adopting Bitcoin or whatever.

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It's a little harder to tell with the normie person, but from what

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I hear, the places where you do have inflation problems, they

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tend to be the places where...

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people are the most interested.

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So Lebanon and Argentina are probably the two most

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hyperinflating places that I was at.

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Um, but you know, Egypt and Turkey are sort of in that process as well.

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And they, they seem to have a lot of people that were interested.

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Um, and adoption is a, is a little bit of a tricky term because, uh, the

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way most people use it is, you know, like Um, are people transacting in it?

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What can you buy with Bitcoin or something like that?

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Really, adoption is more people storing their value in it.

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And, um, and certainly there's a decent number of those people,

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especially in the Bitcoin community.

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Uh, what I will say though is that there, there are Bitcoin

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communities almost everywhere.

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Um, like, I was in Tbilisi, Georgia.

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I did not expect there to be that many, uh, Bitcoiners, uh, but there

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were, and in fact, that's like one of the big, uh, hotbeds of Bitcoin

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activity, largely because there's a lot of people coming out of Russia.

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This is one of the places that they've been going, uh, They're escaping Russia,

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and if they need to send money back and forth, the normal international

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rails for money transfer are not available, so they're using Bitcoin.

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Um, so, you know, you see like random stores with the Bitcoin sign

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and stuff, so you can go in like, uh, you know, send, send, uh, you

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know, Bitcoin back to relatives back home, I guess, if you're Russian.

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Um, And there's a lot of that, uh, all over the world, and it's not

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something that you would think of, but, um, you know, there's just

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kind of activity all over the place.

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and, and what, I mean, you've, you've been traveling a lot before

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as well, like for years now.

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Maybe not with your entire family, but, but, uh, what's the difference

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now in 2023 to say like five years back in terms of like, uh, Do people

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make the distinction between Bitcoin and crypto to a larger extent now or?

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Yeah, I would say that's the case.

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There's certainly a lot of, um, a lot more separation.

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Um, and, you know, the main thing that I've noticed is that pretty

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much every city that you go to...

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You know, they, they used to have a single meetup and then there were a bunch of shit

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Bitcoiners, and they went off and split to do their own meetup, or they kept that

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meetup and the Bitcoiners actually created their own meetup or something like that.

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But there, there's usually a distinct set.

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There's some Bitcoiners and then there's crypto people.

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Um, the crypto people are almost always thinking about like

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the next I c O or something.

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You know, hey, here's a new DeFi product or here's a cool monkey JPEG or something.

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They're not thinking at all about sound money or, you know, uh, the,

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the life change that comes from having a good store of value there.

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They're thinking about, you know, how to get rich really quickly and, you know,

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um, CZ coming to town and stuff like that.

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It's, it's very shallow.

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It's very...

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Uh, much based on, um, sort of almost like celebrity news or something like that.

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Uh, the, the Bitcoiners, they get it.

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Um, and there's a lot more of those communities than say five years ago.

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Uh, and it's, uh, it's very encouraging to me, uh, especially in places like Asia

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where, uh, you know, you, you had this.

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This giant bubble of uh, and all sorts of scams that were happening

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over there and it got like seriously overheated on that front.

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Um, but you know, there's like sort of a phoenix rising from the ashes kind of

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thing where there's a core of Bitcoiners that are holding on and, uh, you know,

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they're, they're showing sort of the, the big difference between the two.

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So there, there is some, some daylight between those things.

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Um, and, you know, thankfully there, that, that seems to be sort of the

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evolution of this space is that you get people, uh, you know, you, you get a lot

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of people interested and it's sort of amorphous, but then there's sort of a.

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Separating of the Bitcoiners from crypto and that's a good thing.

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Yeah, who said that?

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Crypto is peak fiat.

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I like that.

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So when did you decide to write the book?

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Um, I started writing the book, uh, last year.

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Um, uh, I guess after taking, uh, David Perel's Rite of Passage

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course and I felt like I could write anything in, at any length.

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And I, I started writing columns for Bitcoin Magazine based on that.

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And, uh, I took some of those articles and put it into this book.

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Um, but yeah, a lot, large part of it was.

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written during the trip, um, written with a lot of conversations from, with

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Bitcoiners, you know, just talking about, you know, like how things are in different

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parts of the world and stuff like that.

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Uh, and yeah, it was, uh, it was really just sort of like, uh,

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something I was doing during the trip.

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Um, and I, I wanted to publish this book, anyway, and it turned out that Uh,

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talking to Bitcoiners all over the world was a great way to, like, distill and

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sharpen a lot of the thoughts that I had.

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Uh, but yeah, it's a fairly long book.

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It's, I think, the longest of the books that I've written, uh, you know, and

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that includes programming Bitcoin.

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So, uh, 340 pages, 90, 000 words, um, 6 parts, 30 something chapters.

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So, yeah, it's a fairly, Deep work and it's, uh, it's, yeah,

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it's, it's been fun writing it.

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I bet it's more accessible than programming Bitcoin,

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though, to most people.

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Certainly hope so.

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And that, that was, uh, that was sort of the goal with a lot of these books

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was to bring, uh, other people in.

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So part of that is making it short so that people can get into it really easily.

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So a little Bitcoin book, Thank God for Bitcoin, you know,

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Bitcoin and the American Dream.

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They're, they're all meant to be.

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Very quick read so that you can, you can get into it and get an idea and you

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know, just break down whatever barriers you might have, uh, or in getting

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intimidated or something like that.

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Uh, this one though is different in that it's, uh, it's aimed at Bitcoiners.

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So I, I want Bitcoiners mostly to read this book.

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Um, like if non Bitcoiners read it, that's fine.

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Uh, but Mostly, I want Bitcoiners to read it because I want them

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to really understand the depths of the fiat depravity that we're,

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we're experiencing in this world.

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So, um, you know, I, I write a lot about, um, the individual incentives, the

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company incentives, national incentives, the global dollar hegemony that we're

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under, um, the morality of fiat money and how it's really, truly evil.

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Finally, how, you know, we're, we're beset on two sides because all coiners

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are taking Bitcoin's good name and using it to pump their bags, uh, while

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You know, fiat people are trying to produce CBDCs and get sort of like a

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surveillance state of full control.

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So yeah, I mean, that's, that's basically how the book's organized.

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And hopefully it's something that a lot of Bitcoiners can use to really be

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convicted in their holding, I guess.

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Yeah, and what's your writing process like?

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I mean, what is writing to you?

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Is it therapeutic?

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Like, I know you have around 700 kids, and I guess writing is a

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way to zone out and get away from those responsibilities for a while.

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Like, when during the day do you find time for writing?

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Yeah, you know, it's, um, it used to be a lot harder than it is now, and I, I

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really do credit David Perel for helping me, like, uh, sort of unlock a lot of

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that, uh, because, you know, I, I took his course, uh, like, I think it was

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April of last year and, you know, it

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Write a passage.

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What's that?

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Yeah, rite of passage.

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W R I T E of passage.

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So it's a, it's a pun.

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Uh, anyway, he has a cohort starting if you're, if you're interested and you're in

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writing and want to write things easier.

227
00:14:19,262 --> 00:14:22,112
He has some really, really great material.

228
00:14:22,122 --> 00:14:26,432
So I took that course and I made it like super hard on myself.

229
00:14:26,432 --> 00:14:28,602
So it's like a five or six week course.

230
00:14:29,772 --> 00:14:32,962
And you're supposed to produce maybe like four articles, right?

231
00:14:33,022 --> 00:14:37,082
Um, like produce four pieces in those like five or six weeks.

232
00:14:37,522 --> 00:14:39,752
I decided to produce an article every day.

233
00:14:40,162 --> 00:14:42,862
So I like made it that much harder.

234
00:14:42,862 --> 00:14:45,692
I was like, this, this course costs a lot of money.

235
00:14:45,692 --> 00:14:50,372
I'm going to get, I'm going to squeeze every last drop of value from it.

236
00:14:50,902 --> 00:14:56,072
And I did that and it was a wonderful experience because I learned to just...

237
00:14:56,892 --> 00:15:01,652
Sort of, uh, organize my ideas and, you know, part of his, um, part of the

238
00:15:01,652 --> 00:15:06,882
thing that I learned is that, uh, you know, you don't write from a blank page

239
00:15:06,912 --> 00:15:10,852
and too many writers get into that mode where they just like face a blank page,

240
00:15:10,912 --> 00:15:13,892
they go to the blank page and go, all right, what am I going to write about?

241
00:15:13,912 --> 00:15:18,262
And then they try to come up with ideas and it's, it, and you

242
00:15:18,262 --> 00:15:22,262
get into like writer's block and all, all sorts of other things.

243
00:15:22,262 --> 00:15:23,132
And, uh, and.

244
00:15:23,557 --> 00:15:28,037
David's whole thing is you should be collecting ideas all the time, and

245
00:15:28,047 --> 00:15:31,757
everything that you read, you should be taking notes, you should be, um,

246
00:15:31,837 --> 00:15:36,547
you know, adding sort of like ideas that you have to yourself and, uh, and

247
00:15:36,587 --> 00:15:41,887
collecting them somewhere, and when you have a lot of these things, uh, and

248
00:15:41,947 --> 00:15:45,527
they're somewhat organized, then you don't have to start from a blank page.

249
00:15:45,527 --> 00:15:50,407
You take your ideas and you try to express them in a coherent manner.

250
00:15:51,012 --> 00:15:54,832
And, uh, and you take that and then now you have some raw material

251
00:15:54,832 --> 00:15:56,352
and it's a lot easier to write.

252
00:15:56,812 --> 00:16:03,902
Um, I also learned to sort of like, uh, unblock myself almost, uh,

253
00:16:04,372 --> 00:16:10,252
and you, uh, and sort of just get the ideas out or explanations out.

254
00:16:10,292 --> 00:16:15,352
And, uh, you know, one of the methods in which you can do that is get,

255
00:16:15,412 --> 00:16:17,442
uh, you know, something like otter.

256
00:16:17,512 --> 00:16:18,402
ai for your phone.

257
00:16:19,667 --> 00:16:23,107
And just explain what you're going to write about as if to a friend, right?

258
00:16:23,157 --> 00:16:26,737
Um, just, okay, what, what, what are you writing an essay about?

259
00:16:26,737 --> 00:16:29,787
Why am I writing about this and blah, blah, blah, and just explain it.

260
00:16:30,197 --> 00:16:35,507
In plain words, as if you're talking to a friend, you could take that and use

261
00:16:35,507 --> 00:16:37,657
that as your first draft and refine it.

262
00:16:38,087 --> 00:16:41,327
And that actually works pretty well, amazingly enough.

263
00:16:41,717 --> 00:16:45,997
Um, there, there are lots of other stuff that he teaches, uh, and, you

264
00:16:45,997 --> 00:16:52,137
know, I, I practiced a lot of them and I was able to essentially make essays

265
00:16:52,207 --> 00:16:54,997
much more quickly than I, I was before.

266
00:16:55,612 --> 00:17:00,072
Uh, and essentially this book is a collection of essays and, you know,

267
00:17:00,072 --> 00:17:05,622
I, I can knock out 500 to a thousand words without a problem, uh, just, you

268
00:17:05,622 --> 00:17:10,362
know, like coming up with, like having some ideas already about what I want

269
00:17:10,362 --> 00:17:14,682
to write about and then refining it in a first draft and then going through

270
00:17:14,712 --> 00:17:18,102
second, third draft and, and then, you know, you're pretty much done at that.

271
00:17:18,112 --> 00:17:18,122
Oh

272
00:17:20,262 --> 00:17:20,722
Cool.

273
00:17:20,772 --> 00:17:25,252
Um, yeah, it reminds me of, of, uh, my writing process for the first book, where

274
00:17:25,292 --> 00:17:27,222
I promised myself to write a page a day.

275
00:17:27,222 --> 00:17:30,112
That's way less than 5, 000 words, though.

276
00:17:30,522 --> 00:17:32,092
Uh, it's probably more like a...

277
00:17:32,842 --> 00:17:34,322
A page a day is maybe like...

278
00:17:35,537 --> 00:17:35,847
250 or

279
00:17:36,062 --> 00:17:36,642
Yeah, yeah.

280
00:17:36,642 --> 00:17:40,672
So it's, uh, it's not very much, but it's still, that was like the

281
00:17:40,672 --> 00:17:42,342
first attempt, and that really...

282
00:17:42,652 --> 00:17:47,662
Having some sort of disciplined routine helps for sure and uh yeah and to the

283
00:17:47,662 --> 00:17:51,742
other like I started every chapter by asking myself a question and then

284
00:17:51,782 --> 00:17:55,712
um you know the rest of the chapter was answering that question which I

285
00:17:56,372 --> 00:18:00,632
take it is sort of what you did when explaining what you were going to write

286
00:18:00,877 --> 00:18:01,777
Yeah.

287
00:18:01,777 --> 00:18:02,057
Yeah.

288
00:18:02,057 --> 00:18:05,487
I mean, that, that, that's a, that's a writing prompt method.

289
00:18:05,487 --> 00:18:07,317
And that, that can be very helpful.

290
00:18:07,317 --> 00:18:11,512
And like, just sort of like, Uh, there's usually a step I would take

291
00:18:11,512 --> 00:18:15,252
in between if I were to do it that way of just sort of getting the main

292
00:18:15,252 --> 00:18:19,862
ideas out on a piece of paper, uh, the brainstorming stage where you just sort

293
00:18:19,862 --> 00:18:24,572
of, uh, write a bunch of, um, ideas on what you want to write about or how

294
00:18:24,572 --> 00:18:26,082
you're going to answer the question.

295
00:18:26,532 --> 00:18:30,402
Um, the other thing, uh, that you mentioned about having

296
00:18:30,432 --> 00:18:31,752
some sort of discipline.

297
00:18:32,097 --> 00:18:37,317
Um, I, I was fortunate enough to have Parker as a good friend and he, he

298
00:18:37,317 --> 00:18:38,857
was writing a book at the same time.

299
00:18:38,857 --> 00:18:41,347
So we just like checked in on each other.

300
00:18:41,347 --> 00:18:44,597
We kept each other accountable by, uh, you know, doing a call

301
00:18:44,597 --> 00:18:47,477
every week and just saying, okay, what did you work on last week?

302
00:18:47,477 --> 00:18:48,757
What are you going to work on this week?

303
00:18:48,757 --> 00:18:49,117
And then.

304
00:18:49,642 --> 00:18:52,302
Talk about it and, you know, what, what were your blockers?

305
00:18:52,302 --> 00:18:56,182
How can we, um, you know, help each other get past these blocks or whatever?

306
00:18:56,652 --> 00:19:01,712
Um, and, you know, like, uh, uh, give resources to each other to figure out

307
00:19:01,712 --> 00:19:04,482
what, uh, what could work and so on.

308
00:19:04,482 --> 00:19:07,302
So, uh, so that, that was really useful too.

309
00:19:07,302 --> 00:19:12,052
And, uh, for any aspiring writer out there, like go, go get yourself into like

310
00:19:12,052 --> 00:19:13,582
a writer's group or something, right?

311
00:19:13,582 --> 00:19:16,992
Like having other writers around.

312
00:19:17,287 --> 00:19:21,367
Even if they're not reading your stuff, just to be able to say, Hey,

313
00:19:21,367 --> 00:19:25,557
I did what I, uh, what I said I was going to do makes all the difference.

314
00:19:25,687 --> 00:19:25,887
Right?

315
00:19:25,937 --> 00:19:30,487
Uh, like having somebody there to tell you, Hey, like.

316
00:19:31,112 --> 00:19:36,252
Okay, like, we're going to meet about this is sometimes enough of a deadline

317
00:19:36,252 --> 00:19:40,662
where you're going to work feverishly the night before to actually have

318
00:19:40,662 --> 00:19:45,102
something to say at the, at the writer's group that you're going to meet at.

319
00:19:45,442 --> 00:19:50,872
Otherwise, like, it's just way too easy to be lazy and just, you know, ignore things

320
00:19:50,872 --> 00:19:57,392
for, you know, weeks, months, years, uh, sometimes and that, that's, uh, um,

321
00:19:57,422 --> 00:20:01,082
that's something that you have to really check yourself on if you're a writer.

322
00:20:01,092 --> 00:20:01,112
Yeah.

323
00:20:01,859 --> 00:20:03,729
Yeah, there are no shortcuts.

324
00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:08,259
Well, maybe there are shortcuts, like AI.

325
00:20:08,289 --> 00:20:10,969
How much AI did you use, and how did you use it?

326
00:20:11,839 --> 00:20:16,219
Yeah, so I, I use some chat GPT and, uh, the, the night, the

327
00:20:16,219 --> 00:20:20,409
really nice thing about AI is that, uh, it's almost instantaneous.

328
00:20:20,429 --> 00:20:24,949
So if you've ever used an editor, um, you know, you, you send your

329
00:20:24,949 --> 00:20:28,559
stuff to them and they don't respond for like two weeks and you're just,

330
00:20:29,109 --> 00:20:32,329
you know, you had all this momentum writing and editing on all that stuff.

331
00:20:32,329 --> 00:20:35,229
And then suddenly, like, you just, you have nothing to do for

332
00:20:35,229 --> 00:20:38,989
two weeks because if you change anything, then the editor is like.

333
00:20:39,509 --> 00:20:42,129
You're, you're basically forking your own book.

334
00:20:42,139 --> 00:20:48,099
Um, but, uh, but if you're, if, if, you know, and during those two weeks,

335
00:20:48,099 --> 00:20:51,119
you might lose a lot of momentum, get distracted, do other stuff.

336
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,679
So it's like hard to get back into it when the editor finally gets it to you.

337
00:20:55,089 --> 00:21:00,219
Um, so a large part of what I used ChatGPT for was as an editor.

338
00:21:00,219 --> 00:21:02,319
So you can, you can give it a good prompt.

339
00:21:02,349 --> 00:21:06,029
Uh, what, like, you're going to be my book editor.

340
00:21:06,384 --> 00:21:11,214
And you're going to correct all grammar, um, you know, try to make

341
00:21:11,224 --> 00:21:15,694
things that sound confusing sound more clear, um, and stuff like that.

342
00:21:16,064 --> 00:21:20,544
And, you know, you can tell it, okay, edit it really, really lightly

343
00:21:20,564 --> 00:21:22,444
or edit it completely, right?

344
00:21:22,484 --> 00:21:26,644
And you can, you can sort of tweak that based on the prompt that you give it.

345
00:21:27,034 --> 00:21:32,234
Um, I generally went very light, um, you know, just correct few things and, you

346
00:21:32,234 --> 00:21:35,524
know, if there's any grammar errors or something like that, please correct that.

347
00:21:35,524 --> 00:21:35,794
But.

348
00:21:36,259 --> 00:21:40,589
Like, don't change the ideas too much or anything or, um, you know,

349
00:21:40,719 --> 00:21:42,889
just make things sound clear.

350
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,969
Um, and that, that was really useful because you get

351
00:21:45,989 --> 00:21:47,809
instantaneous feedback, pretty much.

352
00:21:47,819 --> 00:21:52,929
So you can, you, you can take a paragraph and just be like, okay, like, um, edit

353
00:21:52,929 --> 00:21:54,679
it and let's, let's read it again.

354
00:21:55,079 --> 00:21:55,509
And...

355
00:21:55,884 --> 00:22:00,114
It works as sort of like a second draft, and then you're

356
00:22:00,294 --> 00:22:01,634
going to have to edit it again.

357
00:22:01,644 --> 00:22:05,744
Whatever the AI does, it's going to mess up in some way, so you're

358
00:22:05,744 --> 00:22:07,024
going to need to edit it again.

359
00:22:07,474 --> 00:22:12,544
But it's great feedback, and it doesn't stop your momentum.

360
00:22:12,564 --> 00:22:16,134
It keeps you going, and you can do it as many times as you

361
00:22:16,134 --> 00:22:18,244
want, which is really nice.

362
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:23,969
Um, uh, you know, if you, if you don't like how something is like coming and then

363
00:22:23,969 --> 00:22:29,639
you can, you can start over and try again and you don't, you don't have to, um,

364
00:22:30,379 --> 00:22:32,759
uh, you don't have to kind of get stuck.

365
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,329
Uh, and more importantly, like you can ask the AI, like, okay, why,

366
00:22:37,339 --> 00:22:38,889
why did you make these changes?

367
00:22:38,889 --> 00:22:41,809
Like, tell me specifically what was the rationale.

368
00:22:42,234 --> 00:22:46,954
And you can, you can sort of understand what, what the motivations are based

369
00:22:46,954 --> 00:22:50,874
on the prompts that you're giving it and, uh, and you can tweak those too.

370
00:22:50,874 --> 00:22:54,024
So, uh, it was, it was a very useful tool.

371
00:22:54,044 --> 00:22:57,484
I, I think personally think that's probably why we're getting

372
00:22:57,484 --> 00:23:00,334
like an explosion of books right now in the Bitcoin space.

373
00:23:00,374 --> 00:23:02,224
Um, I think, uh, you know.

374
00:23:02,654 --> 00:23:08,564
I published and then like Lynn Alden had a book, uh, come out and Parker obviously

375
00:23:08,564 --> 00:23:13,564
has one, Mark Goodwin has one, and there's another guy from Bitcoin Magazine that

376
00:23:13,564 --> 00:23:18,434
has another one, and I mean, there's like five or six books that came out like at

377
00:23:18,434 --> 00:23:21,954
the same time, so a lot of people are complaining about the amount of books

378
00:23:21,974 --> 00:23:26,594
that they're going to need to read, but I mean, this is, it makes the writing, the

379
00:23:26,594 --> 00:23:28,614
writing process has gotten more efficient.

380
00:23:28,624 --> 00:23:31,319
You're, you're going to see more of it, and that's, That's

381
00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:32,579
kind of where we are right now.

382
00:23:33,134 --> 00:23:39,999
Yeah, that's definitely been an explosion, and like, I'm happy that we got into

383
00:23:39,999 --> 00:23:44,499
the door early on by writing books before this whole thing started, like,

384
00:23:45,116 --> 00:23:47,126
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415
00:25:13,214 --> 00:25:18,744
So speaking of AI, it's a great tool, but like, the way I see

416
00:25:18,744 --> 00:25:20,054
it, it's, that's what it is.

417
00:25:20,074 --> 00:25:20,804
It's a tool.

418
00:25:20,804 --> 00:25:22,974
It's a Swiss Army knife, if you will.

419
00:25:24,374 --> 00:25:30,394
The term intelligence is so misleading because I think like to really be an

420
00:25:30,644 --> 00:25:34,544
artificial intelligence and this Skynet type of artificial intelligence that

421
00:25:34,544 --> 00:25:41,304
people are scared of that suddenly has a will of its own, uh, that requires

422
00:25:41,334 --> 00:25:47,304
agency and requires, probably requires a sense of felt uneasiness, right?

423
00:25:47,304 --> 00:25:48,804
To use a Mississian term.

424
00:25:49,094 --> 00:25:55,609
Uh, For, for, uh, for a, um, an entity to engage in actual action,

425
00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:57,729
to, to make a decision on their own.

426
00:25:58,209 --> 00:26:00,709
Um, so what's your take there?

427
00:26:00,709 --> 00:26:04,709
I'm curious about what, what you think about AI and, and if it can

428
00:26:04,709 --> 00:26:08,909
ever be truly autonomous, can it ever be anything than a perfect slave?

429
00:26:08,989 --> 00:26:10,909
Can it be its own master at some point?

430
00:26:11,819 --> 00:26:14,349
Yeah, I think you put it pretty well.

431
00:26:14,679 --> 00:26:16,389
It doesn't have a will of its own.

432
00:26:16,389 --> 00:26:21,559
And this is the part that almost every AI doomer seems to be missing, is that

433
00:26:21,779 --> 00:26:25,499
it doesn't have a will, it just does.

434
00:26:26,634 --> 00:26:31,554
And then, like, this is the difference between, like, something that is living

435
00:26:31,554 --> 00:26:35,704
and something that is dead, is that it has a will of its own, it has motivations, it

436
00:26:35,714 --> 00:26:41,834
has, it wants to do something, it wants to achieve a goal, and AI does not, it

437
00:26:41,864 --> 00:26:47,404
only has a goal as far as you define it for it, and you say, okay, I want you

438
00:26:47,404 --> 00:26:49,534
to do this, And then you can do this.

439
00:26:49,944 --> 00:26:56,164
Um, but, uh, but this points out something to me that, uh, that I

440
00:26:56,164 --> 00:27:00,734
think a lot of people miss with respect to genuine innovation,

441
00:27:01,114 --> 00:27:05,894
which is that, uh, you know, hyped innovation like fiat innovation, right?

442
00:27:05,914 --> 00:27:06,604
Fake science.

443
00:27:06,604 --> 00:27:10,804
And there, there's a whole chapter in my book about fiat science and how

444
00:27:11,674 --> 00:27:13,844
more or less socialist it is right now.

445
00:27:14,164 --> 00:27:14,564
Um.

446
00:27:15,104 --> 00:27:19,064
But, uh, you know, there's a lot of hype, for example, about,

447
00:27:19,064 --> 00:27:23,114
like, quantum computing or cold fusion or stuff like that.

448
00:27:23,524 --> 00:27:28,584
And you can, you can always tell that these things are not for real and that

449
00:27:28,584 --> 00:27:34,264
there's nothing really coming around the corner because the, the, you

450
00:27:34,264 --> 00:27:36,344
know, it's always sort of hyped up.

451
00:27:36,364 --> 00:27:40,264
It's, no one's really, like, necessarily scared of it.

452
00:27:40,264 --> 00:27:43,814
I mean, they, they might say, oh, it can break this and break that or whatever.

453
00:27:44,234 --> 00:27:49,834
But generally, it's, uh, it's just people sort of asserting that this

454
00:27:49,834 --> 00:27:54,634
might or might not happen, or, uh, you know, it's just around the corner, it's

455
00:27:54,684 --> 00:27:56,424
20 years away, something like that.

456
00:27:56,864 --> 00:28:01,844
Whereas, uh, with, with AI, there's a lot of fear around it, right?

457
00:28:01,844 --> 00:28:06,254
There's a lot of people saying, oh, the, there, Skynet, and these, uh,

458
00:28:06,649 --> 00:28:10,209
You know, uh, things are going to take over or something like that.

459
00:28:11,019 --> 00:28:14,919
Almost all innovation, if you look back, has that element.

460
00:28:14,939 --> 00:28:20,029
So, for example, when cell phones first came out, you know, everyone

461
00:28:20,029 --> 00:28:23,229
was saying, hey, you're going to get cancer in your brain because, you know,

462
00:28:23,239 --> 00:28:27,299
it's too close and you got all these electromagnetic waves and stuff like that.

463
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:30,539
Uh, when the internet first came out, oh, it's going to be like...

464
00:28:30,744 --> 00:28:33,894
Just all porn and, you know, no one's gonna, you know, it's

465
00:28:33,894 --> 00:28:35,344
going to degrade our morals and

466
00:28:35,419 --> 00:28:37,759
And it's just 30 percent porn, so it's fine.

467
00:28:39,314 --> 00:28:43,004
But, uh, uh, you know, when the microwave first came out, it was,

468
00:28:43,044 --> 00:28:46,264
uh, you know, it's, uh, it's going to take all nutritional value out

469
00:28:46,264 --> 00:28:47,554
of the food that you put in it.

470
00:28:47,554 --> 00:28:51,104
And when electricity first came out, yeah, it's, it's going to.

471
00:28:51,489 --> 00:28:55,189
Uh, kill everything and, you know, cause more fires and

472
00:28:55,539 --> 00:28:56,769
all kinds of stuff like that.

473
00:28:56,769 --> 00:29:00,979
When automobiles came out, it's going to be like a debt of prostitution

474
00:29:00,979 --> 00:29:05,729
and all this other, like there, there's always FUD around new tech.

475
00:29:05,769 --> 00:29:10,619
Um, and, and, you know, Bitcoin of course has, has had it in spades.

476
00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:17,829
But the fact that, you know, we have this FUD around or this sort of like,

477
00:29:19,289 --> 00:29:23,239
A lot of people just sort of scared about AI tells me that it's a genuine

478
00:29:23,239 --> 00:29:27,109
innovation, that it's a genuine tool, that it's something that's actually real,

479
00:29:27,509 --> 00:29:32,599
as opposed to something fake like, uh, you know, quantum, uh, quantum computing

480
00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:34,989
or co fusion or something like that.

481
00:29:35,459 --> 00:29:42,949
Because in a sense, like even the people that are, you know, deeply into AI, like

482
00:29:42,949 --> 00:29:48,249
the open AI people, even if they don't really understand how it works, right?

483
00:29:48,259 --> 00:29:52,889
And this is something I point out in the science chapter is that most of

484
00:29:52,889 --> 00:29:58,259
the time, the way innovation occurs is, is not through You know, study of

485
00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:00,779
theory, it's, it's engineers, right?

486
00:30:00,779 --> 00:30:02,379
It's, it's people that are doing stuff.

487
00:30:02,399 --> 00:30:06,339
And most of the time engineers figure, figure something out and

488
00:30:06,339 --> 00:30:09,189
they're like, I don't know why this works, but it works great.

489
00:30:09,209 --> 00:30:11,169
And I'm going to, I'm going to use it to build stuff.

490
00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:16,089
And then, and then the theoreticians come in later and they, they explain it by

491
00:30:16,109 --> 00:30:18,239
the ideal gas law or something like that.

492
00:30:18,619 --> 00:30:21,029
But, you know, the, the engineers find it first.

493
00:30:21,549 --> 00:30:26,434
And I, I, I suspect that's what's going on with AI in that, uh, that's You know,

494
00:30:26,434 --> 00:30:28,284
they, they found something that works.

495
00:30:28,304 --> 00:30:30,264
They don't really understand how it works.

496
00:30:30,464 --> 00:30:35,264
It's, it's using some sort of like neural net and, uh, various

497
00:30:35,314 --> 00:30:38,484
weighings of like billions of parameters and things like that.

498
00:30:38,494 --> 00:30:44,274
They, you know, and it's based on, okay, like a cat is related to a dog because

499
00:30:44,284 --> 00:30:49,364
they're both kind of pets and, you know, you take this giant corpus of text and

500
00:30:49,754 --> 00:30:54,634
find out relationships and the frequency with which they like, uh, happen and.

501
00:30:55,464 --> 00:31:00,374
They make these relationships and, uh, and somehow it comes out with

502
00:31:00,374 --> 00:31:02,244
something that's kind of sensible.

503
00:31:02,684 --> 00:31:05,524
And they don't really understand how that works at all.

504
00:31:05,564 --> 00:31:11,734
Like the, the, the actual like algorithms, yeah, we understand, but the, the way

505
00:31:11,734 --> 00:31:14,794
it comes up with the actual output.

506
00:31:15,109 --> 00:31:16,799
We don't really understand, right?

507
00:31:16,839 --> 00:31:18,229
But it's there.

508
00:31:18,319 --> 00:31:21,619
And it's, uh, you know, it's kind of, because we don't understand

509
00:31:21,619 --> 00:31:26,129
it, we, a lot of people are kind of scared of it and think that it's

510
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:27,699
going to destroy the world somehow.

511
00:31:28,099 --> 00:31:30,679
But that, that's how you know it's a genuine innovation.

512
00:31:30,679 --> 00:31:36,194
It's, it's engineers that Produce something and it's not, you know, fiat

513
00:31:36,194 --> 00:31:41,534
academics that are, you know, doing mental masturbation or something, right?

514
00:31:41,554 --> 00:31:45,734
Like it's, it's, it's a much better, uh, sort of system.

515
00:31:45,784 --> 00:31:51,614
And this is how innovation occurred in the past, not centralized, top down, we're

516
00:31:51,624 --> 00:31:53,744
going to make this happen kind of thing.

517
00:31:53,744 --> 00:31:54,084
But.

518
00:31:54,494 --> 00:31:58,054
Bottom up, decentralized, you know, just people trying stuff

519
00:31:58,094 --> 00:32:00,404
and then, oh, wow, that worked.

520
00:32:00,574 --> 00:32:03,214
Okay, let's, let's see why it works.

521
00:32:04,095 --> 00:32:11,085
Yeah, so, so could the fears around it and the people confusing real stupidity

522
00:32:11,085 --> 00:32:15,225
for artificial intelligence, because, you know, those who can't tell this,

523
00:32:16,345 --> 00:32:21,143
who don't understand agency and that you have to have a, a desire an end to

524
00:32:21,143 --> 00:32:23,693
use means to reach that end and stuff.

525
00:32:23,993 --> 00:32:26,823
People who don't understand Austrian economics, basically.

526
00:32:27,113 --> 00:32:30,183
Is it because they're NPCs themselves and lack will?

527
00:32:30,493 --> 00:32:33,383
Like, is that why they're scared?

528
00:32:33,393 --> 00:32:35,803
Because that's where the confusion lies.

529
00:32:35,833 --> 00:32:39,553
Because they, they're not very good at thinking and doing stuff.

530
00:32:40,088 --> 00:32:40,798
Possibly.

531
00:32:40,798 --> 00:32:46,618
I suspect that what fiat money has done is taken or reduced

532
00:32:47,558 --> 00:32:51,153
people's Desire for agency, right?

533
00:32:51,353 --> 00:32:54,583
Or they, they, they get scared of agency because now they're

534
00:32:54,593 --> 00:32:56,693
responsible for their own choices.

535
00:32:56,743 --> 00:33:01,293
And basically you get 12 years of government schooling, at least, uh,

536
00:33:01,323 --> 00:33:06,163
where you're told that, you know, there are experts and those are the

537
00:33:06,173 --> 00:33:07,813
people that you should listen to.

538
00:33:07,813 --> 00:33:08,503
And.

539
00:33:08,763 --> 00:33:12,653
There, there's all this sort of like almost moral language around, um, you

540
00:33:12,653 --> 00:33:18,403
know, listening to the, to your superiors or something like that, which has, um,

541
00:33:18,773 --> 00:33:25,803
I think as you've alluded to, uh, reduce their, uh, agency in many ways, they,

542
00:33:25,813 --> 00:33:31,523
they, they, they don't, um, necessarily want things, uh, they certainly

543
00:33:31,523 --> 00:33:35,793
don't want things that are deep and meaningful if they want anything at all.

544
00:33:35,793 --> 00:33:36,503
It's, it's, it's, it's.

545
00:33:36,663 --> 00:33:40,223
It's very shallow and immediate and a high time preference.

546
00:33:40,253 --> 00:33:45,913
So that those are, uh, you know, generally the incentives

547
00:33:45,913 --> 00:33:48,113
of fiat money is that it does.

548
00:33:48,753 --> 00:33:54,603
Uh, produce very high time preference and living for now, um, and part of

549
00:33:54,603 --> 00:34:01,283
the NPC mindset is, you know, not figuring out eternal truths, but, you

550
00:34:01,283 --> 00:34:05,533
know, what will get me out of trouble right now and make sure that I don't

551
00:34:05,533 --> 00:34:09,733
get in trouble right now, instead of like, sort of standing your ground and

552
00:34:09,733 --> 00:34:12,013
saying, you know, I think this is right.

553
00:34:13,383 --> 00:34:17,873
Certainly for those of us that were against lockdowns and vaccines and

554
00:34:17,873 --> 00:34:22,103
stuff like that from three years ago, standing your ground actually turns

555
00:34:22,103 --> 00:34:23,683
out to have been the correct choice.

556
00:34:24,509 --> 00:34:31,239
but, you know, for the NPC, it's, uh, you know, it's, you know, whatever Fauci was

557
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:36,969
saying that week, you, you kind of had to spout and sadly it changed every week.

558
00:34:36,969 --> 00:34:40,819
So they were intellectually completely inconsistent, but that

559
00:34:40,819 --> 00:34:42,419
didn't really matter because.

560
00:34:42,899 --> 00:34:46,989
They're high time preference anyway, and Uh, intellectual consistency

561
00:34:46,989 --> 00:34:51,729
is a long term virtue, so they just kept, you know, doubling down on it.

562
00:34:51,749 --> 00:34:55,099
Well, two weeks to flatten the curve and, you know, masks don't

563
00:34:55,099 --> 00:34:57,169
work, but no, masks do work.

564
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:02,229
No, you need multiple masks, uh, and you need to, uh, you know, masks were,

565
00:35:02,279 --> 00:35:08,729
uh, work except, you know, and like, you need to wear a mask all the time unless

566
00:35:08,729 --> 00:35:10,859
you're protesting Black Lives Matter.

567
00:35:10,879 --> 00:35:15,199
Um, you know, like, it just became, like, more and more twisted.

568
00:35:15,619 --> 00:35:20,249
Uh, and that's, that's sort of the direction that, uh, that

569
00:35:20,379 --> 00:35:21,839
fiat money pushes you into.

570
00:35:22,369 --> 00:35:26,919
And I, I suspect what you're saying is correct in that it makes us a little

571
00:35:26,919 --> 00:35:33,069
less human because our agency, our will, our, uh, our desires, uh, and

572
00:35:33,079 --> 00:35:35,289
being able to act on those things.

573
00:35:35,739 --> 00:35:36,959
Is what makes us human.

574
00:35:36,959 --> 00:35:42,529
It's, it's, it's very different than, um, uh, you know, uh, you know, what a

575
00:35:42,579 --> 00:35:47,409
plant, what, what a rock can do, but, you know, even amongst living things,

576
00:35:47,949 --> 00:35:50,209
you know, we, we have way more agency.

577
00:35:50,209 --> 00:35:55,569
We have more, more, um, more ability to do different things to

578
00:35:55,609 --> 00:35:57,959
act on the desires that we have.

579
00:35:57,989 --> 00:36:03,589
And sadly, you know, uh, fiat money, I guess in a way makes us less human.

580
00:36:04,446 --> 00:36:05,366
Yeah, beautiful poet.

581
00:36:05,556 --> 00:36:10,296
I mean, I've heard a lot of psychologists, specifically a Belgian

582
00:36:10,296 --> 00:36:16,806
one called Matthias Desmets, I think, talk about like mass formation.

583
00:36:17,116 --> 00:36:21,366
He doesn't use the word mass psychosis, but he's alluding to it, I think.

584
00:36:23,031 --> 00:36:27,331
In this that the, um, what you were talking about the rules that changed every

585
00:36:27,331 --> 00:36:33,061
day when Fauci said this or Fauci said that, uh, and, uh, this psychologist's

586
00:36:33,241 --> 00:36:38,781
point is that it becomes a virtually, a virtue signaling mechanism for the

587
00:36:38,781 --> 00:36:44,061
NPC to be good at adapting to the new rules, no matter how absurd they are.

588
00:36:44,491 --> 00:36:48,900
And the more absurd they get and the more they change, the stronger this urge

589
00:36:48,901 --> 00:36:52,231
to, to follow the flock and be, be like.

590
00:36:52,646 --> 00:36:56,706
ahead of the curve that you're supposed to flatten, uh, that

591
00:36:56,706 --> 00:36:59,266
becomes a, uh, a thing in itself.

592
00:36:59,386 --> 00:37:05,846
Uh, so, so, uh, and I think this is, is very common in, in humans to, to

593
00:37:05,846 --> 00:37:09,286
have this mass dilution thing going on.

594
00:37:09,286 --> 00:37:15,396
So, so is fiat that, like, is fiat a great big mass psychosis thing

595
00:37:15,426 --> 00:37:16,986
for, for lack of a better word?

596
00:37:17,696 --> 00:37:21,286
Well, so I would frame it maybe slightly differently, and I have

597
00:37:21,286 --> 00:37:24,806
a whole chapter on this, on how fiat makes everything political.

598
00:37:24,846 --> 00:37:29,926
So, uh, so what fiat money does, because of the existence of the money printer,

599
00:37:31,006 --> 00:37:37,736
It means that more or less that, uh, you know, it, it makes all issues political.

600
00:37:37,766 --> 00:37:39,826
So I don't have healthcare.

601
00:37:39,836 --> 00:37:44,626
Healthcare is now a political issue because you have a money

602
00:37:44,626 --> 00:37:48,866
printer and therefore the money printer can essentially print

603
00:37:48,866 --> 00:37:50,076
money to solve my problem.

604
00:37:50,076 --> 00:37:53,786
So, um, you know, alluding back to this whole agency thing.

605
00:37:54,081 --> 00:37:58,471
Whenever you have a problem and you're a normal human being in a sound money

606
00:37:58,471 --> 00:38:03,051
world, you try to go solve it yourself because you are responsible for yourself.

607
00:38:03,081 --> 00:38:05,291
And if you have a problem, you try to go solve it.

608
00:38:06,021 --> 00:38:10,361
But under fiat money, it becomes way more collectivist because you have

609
00:38:10,371 --> 00:38:11,861
the presence of a money printer.

610
00:38:12,141 --> 00:38:18,481
If I am sick now, and you have the ability to print money as a government, then...

611
00:38:19,011 --> 00:38:25,561
You not printing money for my benefit is now like a moral dilemma, right?

612
00:38:25,561 --> 00:38:28,391
Like you, you kind of have to do it because it's kind

613
00:38:28,391 --> 00:38:29,741
of like the Superman dilemma.

614
00:38:29,741 --> 00:38:33,781
If you're Superman, you should be constantly doing stuff because you

615
00:38:33,781 --> 00:38:37,221
have the ability and you can, you can save lives all the time, right?

616
00:38:37,231 --> 00:38:40,611
Just there's always something, somebody in trouble somewhere.

617
00:38:40,681 --> 00:38:44,921
And you should be, and that's sort of the dilemma that every central bank is in.

618
00:38:44,931 --> 00:38:49,861
Every government is in because They have the ability to print money and they

619
00:38:49,901 --> 00:38:51,771
claim that it's more or less free, right?

620
00:38:51,781 --> 00:38:55,151
Like whenever they do bailouts or whatever, it's not coming from taxpayers.

621
00:38:55,151 --> 00:38:57,161
No, they're printing money on your behalf.

622
00:38:57,161 --> 00:39:04,621
So everything, any problem that anyone has now becomes a public thing.

623
00:39:05,471 --> 00:39:11,621
And that means that, uh, you know, the more you can claim a problem, the more

624
00:39:11,631 --> 00:39:13,421
money is going to get thrown towards you.

625
00:39:13,421 --> 00:39:19,281
And this is part of the sort of victimhood mentality or victimhood olympics that's

626
00:39:19,281 --> 00:39:24,411
been going on, uh, pretty much everywhere is that you want to claim some victimhood

627
00:39:24,421 --> 00:39:27,961
status so you get more money because you've been injured in some way, you

628
00:39:27,971 --> 00:39:32,651
have some problem, and the government now has to print money on your behalf.

629
00:39:33,381 --> 00:39:37,331
So all that is to say that there's politics now injected into everything

630
00:39:37,331 --> 00:39:43,106
because any problem anyone has now it can It becomes the purview of

631
00:39:43,116 --> 00:39:44,796
the money printer of the government.

632
00:39:45,176 --> 00:39:48,866
Now, they don't necessarily solve it, but more or less they have to

633
00:39:48,866 --> 00:39:54,136
spend money on it to at least appear like they're not complete jerks.

634
00:39:54,606 --> 00:40:02,936
Um, so when you have this political, uh, thing, uh, you, you now have this, uh,

635
00:40:03,581 --> 00:40:09,091
Uh, desire to get stuff, right, to claim victimhood status, but you're not going to

636
00:40:09,091 --> 00:40:11,191
get it until a majority agrees with you.

637
00:40:11,721 --> 00:40:18,231
And the mechanism by which you get a majority to agree with you is propaganda.

638
00:40:18,261 --> 00:40:23,111
And this is sort of like hacking into the psychology of people and,

639
00:40:23,371 --> 00:40:28,971
and, you know, there's a, there's a whole, you know, set of literature,

640
00:40:29,001 --> 00:40:31,361
uh, on like exactly how it works.

641
00:40:32,066 --> 00:40:34,326
you know, what, what techniques you can use and so on.

642
00:40:34,326 --> 00:40:40,886
But this has become the chosen weapon, uh, of sort of getting

643
00:40:40,886 --> 00:40:42,826
manufacturer consent, if you will.

644
00:40:42,866 --> 00:40:48,866
And it's, it's, uh, it's a technique that, that's been more

645
00:40:48,866 --> 00:40:51,146
or less weaponized, uh, and it's...

646
00:40:51,751 --> 00:40:56,981
It's become, uh, a lot easier to implement largely because of,

647
00:40:57,421 --> 00:41:01,361
you know, 12 years of government schooling where you're not really

648
00:41:01,381 --> 00:41:03,421
practicing a lot of agency and so on.

649
00:41:03,811 --> 00:41:11,401
Um, so you, you, you get, uh, a population that is very, uh, docile and you get

650
00:41:11,551 --> 00:41:18,311
propaganda that is very good at, Not necessarily evoking emotion, but like

651
00:41:18,351 --> 00:41:21,381
getting a certain type of behavior.

652
00:41:21,391 --> 00:41:27,521
There's a book by Jacques Ellul that's very good on this, and it goes into the

653
00:41:27,521 --> 00:41:30,741
purpose of propaganda and how it works.

654
00:41:32,056 --> 00:41:35,316
The, the purpose of propaganda isn't necessarily to get

655
00:41:35,316 --> 00:41:36,496
you to believe something.

656
00:41:37,126 --> 00:41:38,906
It is to get you to do something.

657
00:41:38,996 --> 00:41:43,216
And this is a very key distinction because a lot of people think,

658
00:41:43,226 --> 00:41:46,096
okay, well, you know, like they're obviously lying and so on.

659
00:41:47,216 --> 00:41:51,206
Most of good propaganda is almost always true.

660
00:41:51,896 --> 00:41:56,516
The, the way that you use propaganda is to say true things.

661
00:41:56,931 --> 00:42:02,361
Just omit the very, you know, omit other things that are also true

662
00:42:02,741 --> 00:42:06,661
to make it seem like a particular way and ultimately get you to act.

663
00:42:06,681 --> 00:42:11,361
So, for example, during the pandemic, we had the mask mandates.

664
00:42:12,371 --> 00:42:13,431
Everyone had to wear a mask.

665
00:42:14,031 --> 00:42:17,351
Now, it didn't matter what you believed about the mask.

666
00:42:17,856 --> 00:42:18,256
Right?

667
00:42:18,876 --> 00:42:19,196
Right?

668
00:42:19,216 --> 00:42:23,066
If you, if you believed that they were effective, you still wore the mask.

669
00:42:23,276 --> 00:42:26,816
Uh, you obviously wore the mask, but if you didn't believe that they were

670
00:42:26,816 --> 00:42:28,516
effective, you still wore the mask.

671
00:42:29,321 --> 00:42:29,801
Why?

672
00:42:29,801 --> 00:42:34,811
Because that the, the key thing to propaganda is to get you to

673
00:42:34,811 --> 00:42:39,521
comply, to do something rather than to believe something.

674
00:42:39,851 --> 00:42:44,951
And, and in effect, um, it, it's, it's sort of reversing the causality of how.

675
00:42:45,776 --> 00:42:51,296
Most people think they, they act, which is that they think that they come up with,

676
00:42:51,336 --> 00:42:56,106
uh, proper actions by thinking through the rational options and picking the most

677
00:42:56,106 --> 00:42:58,986
rational one, and then doing that action.

678
00:42:59,286 --> 00:43:00,946
Actually, it works the other way around.

679
00:43:01,606 --> 00:43:06,156
The action that you do is rationalized by your brain to

680
00:43:06,156 --> 00:43:08,196
justify whatever it is that you did.

681
00:43:08,246 --> 00:43:14,461
So, once you get people to act a certain way, Then the brain comes

682
00:43:14,651 --> 00:43:18,061
along later, uh, which is exactly kind of what happened, right?

683
00:43:18,061 --> 00:43:23,711
It's, it's okay, like, I am doing all of this stuff and that's now a

684
00:43:23,711 --> 00:43:27,601
part of my identity and I'm going to continue in that direction.

685
00:43:27,601 --> 00:43:32,371
And that, that's, I think, what, uh, the connection between fiat money and

686
00:43:32,381 --> 00:43:37,151
what you would call, I guess, mass psychosis or mass belief or whatever.

687
00:43:37,161 --> 00:43:37,621
It's.

688
00:43:38,116 --> 00:43:44,586
It's ultimately political, uh, as a, uh, as a way to, um, sort

689
00:43:44,586 --> 00:43:48,996
of manufacture consent for, you know, particular policy and so on.

690
00:43:50,039 --> 00:43:56,219
that sounds almost even counter to praxeology, like, uh, uh, I mean, I know

691
00:43:56,219 --> 00:43:59,709
that that's how consciousness works, and that's how the brain works, that

692
00:43:59,709 --> 00:44:03,389
we, we, we tell ourselves stories and hindsight and stuff, that that is a

693
00:44:03,389 --> 00:44:06,089
part of the mechanics of, of a brain.

694
00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:09,279
Uh, but still, uh, I believe.

695
00:44:09,944 --> 00:44:14,054
Praxeology to be very true that we, we, we envision something in the

696
00:44:14,054 --> 00:44:19,294
future and we act upon it because we can envision, uh, you know, a future

697
00:44:19,294 --> 00:44:21,514
without our action and with our action.

698
00:44:21,514 --> 00:44:26,794
And we choose between a hierarchy of needs, uh, what to do next.

699
00:44:27,454 --> 00:44:33,644
So, so like, is, uh, is propaganda like counter to the, is it like

700
00:44:33,811 --> 00:44:37,411
no, I, I think it's fully consistent with praxeology in the sense

701
00:44:37,411 --> 00:44:41,651
that there's now another need and it's a political one, right?

702
00:44:41,711 --> 00:44:46,631
Um, so what, what fiat money does is it puts the political

703
00:44:46,641 --> 00:44:48,051
above almost everything else.

704
00:44:48,566 --> 00:44:54,416
So, political, um, or I guess, I guess you could call it like a status seeking

705
00:44:54,416 --> 00:44:58,648
game, or making sure that you're not at the bottom of the status ladder, so

706
00:44:58,688 --> 00:45:05,308
it's, if you get in a zero sum game, like being at the bottom really, really

707
00:45:05,348 --> 00:45:10,548
sucks, right, and, and it's a, it's a zero sum game, so you're, if, if you

708
00:45:10,568 --> 00:45:14,866
get down to the bottom, like, You have very little hope of going back up,

709
00:45:15,155 --> 00:45:16,995
but it's, it's also a zero sum game.

710
00:45:16,995 --> 00:45:20,775
So like, you know, by you being down there, there are other people

711
00:45:20,785 --> 00:45:22,405
that are able to advance and so on.

712
00:45:22,835 --> 00:45:25,225
Uh, and politics is very much a zero sum game.

713
00:45:25,225 --> 00:45:28,405
So to keep up, you need to...

714
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:33,330
You had this need to play the status game because so much of

715
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,580
the fiat economy is political.

716
00:45:36,050 --> 00:45:40,850
And if you don't do these things, then you're going to sink to the bottom.

717
00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:45,530
So instead of in a sound money economy where you can add goods or

718
00:45:45,530 --> 00:45:49,510
services without regard to status, like, you're still going to buy a

719
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:53,510
good or service if it's good, whether it's from a low class person or not.

720
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,230
Uh, with political opinions and such, tho those you have to

721
00:45:58,230 --> 00:46:02,280
take from the top because if you don't, then your status goes down.

722
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:03,780
So you there, there's.

723
00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:12,020
A clear need for virtue signaling as almost like a market good because of this

724
00:46:12,050 --> 00:46:17,810
presence of a money printer that has the ability to control a lot of your life.

725
00:46:17,860 --> 00:46:23,600
Um, and so you, for a person in a fiat money system, they,

726
00:46:23,630 --> 00:46:25,790
of course, envision a future.

727
00:46:26,170 --> 00:46:30,010
where they're virtue signaling versus not virtue signaling.

728
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,910
And the consequences are such that because it's political, you suffer

729
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:41,190
for not virtue signaling, which might include stuff like getting fired

730
00:46:41,210 --> 00:46:47,200
from your job or, you know, being ostracized by your neighbors and so on.

731
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:53,544
So, it brings, it just brings in another whole set of considerations.

732
00:46:54,054 --> 00:46:59,964
Uh, which I don't think are necessarily legitimate or valuable and is actually

733
00:46:59,984 --> 00:47:03,544
civilization destroying, but that, that's essentially what's happening.

734
00:47:04,244 --> 00:47:08,264
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773
00:48:56,363 --> 00:49:01,483
is virtue signaling a direct, uh, result of money printing in the end then?

774
00:49:01,483 --> 00:49:07,440
Because it's, money printing leads to politicization and, uh, that in turn

775
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,060
leads to propaganda and that leads to virtue signaling and it leads to

776
00:49:11,060 --> 00:49:14,590
this race to be, you don't have to be faster than the bear that's chasing

777
00:49:14,590 --> 00:49:18,200
you, you just have to be faster than like the, the, the next sucker.

778
00:49:18,428 --> 00:49:22,018
yeah, I, I, I would say it's, uh, it's even simpler than that.

779
00:49:22,038 --> 00:49:25,798
Like, uh, essentially everyone in some way works for the money printer.

780
00:49:26,098 --> 00:49:27,738
If you don't have the right...

781
00:49:28,353 --> 00:49:32,123
opinions, then you're going to get cut off by the money printer, right?

782
00:49:32,133 --> 00:49:35,223
Like, you're not going to get paid by the money printer in some way.

783
00:49:35,273 --> 00:49:42,763
Uh, and this might be, you know, uh, a couple of degrees off from, or, uh,

784
00:49:43,063 --> 00:49:45,963
it might be like a second or third order effect or something like that.

785
00:49:45,963 --> 00:49:51,823
But that political angle is an important part of every job now.

786
00:49:51,843 --> 00:49:53,783
If you don't have the right politics.

787
00:49:54,248 --> 00:49:59,038
Well, let, let's, let's just trace it like, say you work for a big company and

788
00:49:59,038 --> 00:50:05,958
you're, you have an anti-vaccine, um, you know, thought or, uh, and you, you're,

789
00:50:05,963 --> 00:50:07,398
you're trying to make this decision.

790
00:50:07,398 --> 00:50:08,748
Do I get the vaccine or not?

791
00:50:08,748 --> 00:50:14,453
Well, If you don't get the vaccine, uh, maybe the company can fire you.

792
00:50:14,513 --> 00:50:16,983
Uh, and why is the company doing that?

793
00:50:16,983 --> 00:50:22,073
Because they are getting significant subsidies from the government, whether

794
00:50:22,083 --> 00:50:24,823
in regulation or direct funding.

795
00:50:25,233 --> 00:50:27,683
Uh, you know, certainly the airlines did that, right?

796
00:50:27,683 --> 00:50:31,023
They, they got huge bailouts because they...

797
00:50:31,453 --> 00:50:33,743
Um, you know, shut down during COVID.

798
00:50:33,763 --> 00:50:37,493
So they got these bailouts from the government and the government was pretty

799
00:50:37,493 --> 00:50:39,273
much like, Hey, we have these vaccines.

800
00:50:39,343 --> 00:50:41,463
You're going to need to make everybody take them.

801
00:50:41,873 --> 00:50:44,213
And they enforced it enthusiastically.

802
00:50:44,223 --> 00:50:44,513
Why?

803
00:50:44,543 --> 00:50:47,043
Because if, had they not done that.

804
00:50:47,448 --> 00:50:49,808
Then the next time they need a bailout, they're not getting it.

805
00:50:50,238 --> 00:50:55,228
So it all comes down from the money printer in some way, shape,

806
00:50:55,228 --> 00:50:58,658
or form to the actual people that have to make the decision.

807
00:50:59,478 --> 00:51:02,118
Like with vaccines, maybe that's like very overt.

808
00:51:02,663 --> 00:51:07,123
It comes down to something even more subtle like, uh, you know, you know,

809
00:51:07,123 --> 00:51:12,203
um, supporting Black Lives Matter, for example, like, uh, oh, we, we are going

810
00:51:12,223 --> 00:51:18,163
to support this thing because that is, uh, you know, something that is part of

811
00:51:18,163 --> 00:51:24,163
the ESG thing, well, um, or DEI thing, and well, who, who's enforcing that?

812
00:51:24,213 --> 00:51:27,023
Who, who's, who's demanding that from the company?

813
00:51:27,043 --> 00:51:30,753
Well, the, it's the vanguards and black rocks of the world.

814
00:51:31,123 --> 00:51:32,813
And where, where are they getting their money?

815
00:51:32,813 --> 00:51:35,723
Well, they, they print it into existence because they, they are,

816
00:51:35,733 --> 00:51:40,643
they're essentially banks and they, they have, uh, they have all the money.

817
00:51:40,663 --> 00:51:44,503
So, you know, fiat money is creating all of it.

818
00:51:44,553 --> 00:51:48,164
And if you don't do these things, it's, it's, it's become a part of

819
00:51:48,164 --> 00:51:50,573
your job description essentially because of the money printer.

820
00:51:50,943 --> 00:51:52,723
And it's, it's a direct consequence.

821
00:51:53,213 --> 00:51:56,923
Uh, and if you don't virtue signal, I mean, maybe you get fired.

822
00:51:56,923 --> 00:51:57,063
That's.

823
00:51:57,408 --> 00:52:00,588
Probably the most drastic, but more likely it's you're not going

824
00:52:00,588 --> 00:52:02,178
to get considered for promotions.

825
00:52:02,178 --> 00:52:05,928
You might, you're, you're probably not going to get invited to the projects

826
00:52:05,958 --> 00:52:12,458
that are, you know, going to get you promoted or be able to allow you to

827
00:52:12,568 --> 00:52:14,479
prove yourself to your superiors.

828
00:52:14,828 --> 00:52:18,628
Um, maybe the, you know, next company hiring you is.

829
00:52:19,198 --> 00:52:22,958
Uh, is going to hear about it from somebody and you know, you get marked as

830
00:52:22,958 --> 00:52:24,498
a troublemaker or something like that.

831
00:52:24,788 --> 00:52:29,838
There are all sorts of consequences that everyone has to sort of like take

832
00:52:29,838 --> 00:52:34,878
into account when they're, when they're making these like, uh, uh, decisions,

833
00:52:34,938 --> 00:52:38,218
uh, it's very much praxeological.

834
00:52:38,648 --> 00:52:44,198
It's just, there's this enormous, enormous thing called fiat money

835
00:52:44,198 --> 00:52:48,578
that skews all of these incentives so that they're actually destructive to

836
00:52:48,578 --> 00:52:50,148
civilization rather than building it up.

837
00:52:51,863 --> 00:52:53,913
Yeah, beautifully put.

838
00:52:53,973 --> 00:52:58,623
Uh, I, I mean, this is why I love the Bitcoin space so much.

839
00:52:58,623 --> 00:53:02,413
Because when you hang out with Bitcoiners, you get the literal opposite.

840
00:53:02,443 --> 00:53:05,343
You get people's honest and thoughtful opinion.

841
00:53:05,563 --> 00:53:09,623
You know, you don't, you almost always disagree with everyone,

842
00:53:09,623 --> 00:53:11,203
but that's what Bitcoin is.

843
00:53:11,203 --> 00:53:13,303
It's people that agree to disagree.

844
00:53:13,313 --> 00:53:14,143
It's beautiful.

845
00:53:14,153 --> 00:53:15,103
That's all we do.

846
00:53:15,103 --> 00:53:19,643
It's agreeing to disagree and getting closer to some type of truth by

847
00:53:19,643 --> 00:53:21,418
having Thoughtful conversations.

848
00:53:21,418 --> 00:53:25,978
You know, you can always learn something from a Bitcoiner because they've

849
00:53:26,028 --> 00:53:30,488
thought things through and it's so refreshing when you compare it to,

850
00:53:30,538 --> 00:53:36,248
to the fiat, you know, chasing all sorts of fictitious bullshit goals.

851
00:53:36,662 --> 00:53:37,282
Yeah, indeed.

852
00:53:37,282 --> 00:53:41,402
And it's, it's kind of sad because if you're, if you're told an

853
00:53:41,402 --> 00:53:45,272
opinion, uh, then you obviously haven't thought too much about it.

854
00:53:45,322 --> 00:53:50,622
Uh, maybe you rationalize it later and you can kind of see it when you argue

855
00:53:50,622 --> 00:53:55,667
with them because they, They don't know what the actual rationale is, and

856
00:53:55,667 --> 00:53:57,707
they just sort of make crap up, right?

857
00:53:58,207 --> 00:54:00,027
Oh yeah, I'm doing this because of this.

858
00:54:00,057 --> 00:54:01,397
It's like, that doesn't make any sense.

859
00:54:01,397 --> 00:54:03,557
It's like, well, I'm going to do it anyway.

860
00:54:04,277 --> 00:54:09,877
It kind of does take away a lot of agency in many ways.

861
00:54:11,447 --> 00:54:15,847
And I can kind of understand it because it's very comforting, because if you,

862
00:54:15,887 --> 00:54:20,887
if you just follow the rules, right, if you just comply, then you don't have to

863
00:54:20,917 --> 00:54:25,537
think for yourself and you don't have to be responsible for your own decisions,

864
00:54:26,037 --> 00:54:27,877
uh, which I think makes us less human.

865
00:54:27,877 --> 00:54:34,377
But for a lot of people, it's, well, like I, if I do everything correctly

866
00:54:34,417 --> 00:54:36,967
and, uh, you know, I get screwed, then.

867
00:54:37,607 --> 00:54:41,247
You know, at least I can complain or something, uh, whereas if you make the

868
00:54:41,247 --> 00:54:47,067
decision and it's of your own volition and you screw up, then you don't, you

869
00:54:47,067 --> 00:54:48,977
have no one to blame for, but yourself.

870
00:54:49,017 --> 00:54:54,817
Uh, they, they like the option of having, being able to blame society or the powers

871
00:54:54,817 --> 00:54:58,707
that be or something if they get screwed over as long as they do the right thing.

872
00:54:59,207 --> 00:55:03,737
Um, it, it, it is kind of comforting, but, um, but yeah,

873
00:55:03,737 --> 00:55:05,527
it, it leads to sort of like a.

874
00:55:05,527 --> 00:55:05,807
Yeah.

875
00:55:06,002 --> 00:55:11,992
Very monothink, like, uh, very cultish behavior, almost, from, uh,

876
00:55:12,012 --> 00:55:14,172
from the people that are in fiat.

877
00:55:14,172 --> 00:55:20,112
And it's, it's kind of getting scary because people are saying just...

878
00:55:21,427 --> 00:55:26,627
Outright ridiculous things as if they're, like, legitimate, like, we're, you

879
00:55:26,627 --> 00:55:29,867
know, children should be property of the state and stuff like that, which

880
00:55:30,367 --> 00:55:32,477
I think is just absolutely ridiculous.

881
00:55:32,487 --> 00:55:39,677
But I will say one thing, Knut, and I would not be doing myself a good service

882
00:55:39,677 --> 00:55:46,037
if I did not at least say something that I think you would disagree with.

883
00:55:46,727 --> 00:55:52,177
And, uh, and so I, I, I, I've been, I've been playing around

884
00:55:52,177 --> 00:55:54,237
with this thought in my mind.

885
00:55:54,707 --> 00:55:56,997
I think fiat money is an atheist money.

886
00:56:00,232 --> 00:56:01,182
Okay, okay.

887
00:56:02,062 --> 00:56:05,482
That whole debate, are we really going down that part of the rabbit hole?

888
00:56:05,777 --> 00:56:07,817
Well, so, so, I mean, hear me out, right?

889
00:56:07,827 --> 00:56:08,037
Like,

890
00:56:08,172 --> 00:56:08,992
Yeah, yeah, okay.

891
00:56:10,277 --> 00:56:16,757
Alright, so, so, my, my, my thought on that is, is basically that, uh, the

892
00:56:16,767 --> 00:56:22,962
general pattern with, with atheism is that Once you remove god from the equation,

893
00:56:23,952 --> 00:56:27,712
Wait a minute, I'd like your definition of atheism first, because

894
00:56:27,712 --> 00:56:29,542
I think yours might differ from mine.

895
00:56:30,282 --> 00:56:33,942
oh, what, what, oh, what, I, I, I think it's somebody that doesn't

896
00:56:33,942 --> 00:56:35,432
believe god exists, right, like,

897
00:56:36,207 --> 00:56:40,257
Yeah, it's not a belief in that there's no God, and that's a

898
00:56:40,267 --> 00:56:42,167
big, important distinction.

899
00:56:42,167 --> 00:56:45,877
It's just that you don't buy the theory that there is one.

900
00:56:46,807 --> 00:56:48,437
And there's a, there's a difference there.

901
00:56:49,057 --> 00:56:51,067
no, no, no, that would be agnosticism.

902
00:56:51,077 --> 00:56:52,627
You don't know is

903
00:56:52,677 --> 00:56:53,277
No, agnosticism

904
00:56:53,517 --> 00:56:53,637
No,

905
00:56:54,527 --> 00:56:56,947
is when you say that there's a 50 50 percentage.

906
00:56:56,967 --> 00:56:59,737
An atheist would say, like, there's a 99 percent.

907
00:56:59,944 --> 00:57:05,124
no, traditional agnosticism is you cannot know whether or not there is a god.

908
00:57:05,624 --> 00:57:09,954
Okay, this is not how it's defined in Richard Dawkins book

909
00:57:09,954 --> 00:57:11,124
on the subject, for instance.

910
00:57:11,264 --> 00:57:12,724
Yeah, because he's an idiot.

911
00:57:12,734 --> 00:57:16,554
I mean, he and Sam Harris and all the new atheists are idiots.

912
00:57:16,874 --> 00:57:21,344
They don't study any ancient literature or, like, the traditional arguments

913
00:57:21,344 --> 00:57:24,764
for any of that, so they make up definitions however they like, and

914
00:57:24,764 --> 00:57:27,534
they burn down straw men all day

915
00:57:27,629 --> 00:57:29,739
Well, he also coined the word meme.

916
00:57:30,149 --> 00:57:32,359
So you're, let's go with your definition.

917
00:57:32,379 --> 00:57:36,489
You don't buy the other arguments for, uh, God.

918
00:57:36,489 --> 00:57:38,459
Is that so God might exist?

919
00:57:38,899 --> 00:57:42,579
I don't buy the proposition of an omnipotent being of any sort.

920
00:57:42,909 --> 00:57:46,779
Because I think, and it has to do with agency, because I think such a being

921
00:57:46,779 --> 00:57:48,799
wouldn't be compelled to act ever.

922
00:57:49,149 --> 00:57:52,759
If you're immortal and indestructible, you would never need to act at all.

923
00:57:53,409 --> 00:57:55,719
Especially if you're omnipotent on top of that.

924
00:57:56,069 --> 00:58:00,699
So I don't think an omnipotent, any type of creator...

925
00:58:01,085 --> 00:58:02,405
Whatever need to act.

926
00:58:02,535 --> 00:58:07,955
So therefore, I don't believe that something created what we are.

927
00:58:08,465 --> 00:58:09,575
Okay, but go on.

928
00:58:09,605 --> 00:58:11,545
I'm eager to hear your thoughts.

929
00:58:11,635 --> 00:58:12,655
So let's go back.

930
00:58:12,655 --> 00:58:20,325
So I call it an atheist money because it, it sort of denies, uh, uh, well,

931
00:58:20,335 --> 00:58:23,905
the general pattern with atheism is that once you remove God from the equation,

932
00:58:23,905 --> 00:58:27,395
you deny sort of any other order, right?

933
00:58:27,455 --> 00:58:33,119
Any other, Uh, sort of like, uh, uh, specifically traditional.

934
00:58:33,529 --> 00:58:38,349
Um, uh, rules or laws or something like that.

935
00:58:38,349 --> 00:58:43,509
So generally you become your own master and you, you decide your own rules.

936
00:58:44,169 --> 00:58:48,259
And, uh, that, that was certainly the case with, um, you know, communism,

937
00:58:48,259 --> 00:58:51,909
for example, they, they decided, all right, we're, we're going to make up

938
00:58:51,909 --> 00:58:55,779
our own rules because there's no God, there, there is no other sort of like.

939
00:58:56,624 --> 00:59:02,434
order that you need to submit yourself to, uh, or that, uh, or any other,

940
00:59:02,554 --> 00:59:08,184
uh, it's sort of like a suspending of, uh, of reality or like denying, um,

941
00:59:08,494 --> 00:59:12,064
certain other realities that you don't believe in or, or, or whatever it is.

942
00:59:12,514 --> 00:59:18,664
Um, so the way I see fiat money is denying in some way natural

943
00:59:18,664 --> 00:59:20,424
law and, and natural law.

944
00:59:20,454 --> 00:59:23,564
I mean, there, there are sort of like formulations of

945
00:59:23,574 --> 00:59:25,334
natural law that come from.

946
00:59:25,964 --> 00:59:31,634
Sort of like, um, you know, uh, an atheistic perspective, which requires,

947
00:59:31,634 --> 00:59:35,564
okay, well, obviously we're having this conversation, therefore you must have a

948
00:59:35,564 --> 00:59:41,274
will, and therefore, you know, you're, you're, um, you're, you're admitting the

949
00:59:41,274 --> 00:59:43,004
agency of the other person, and so on.

950
00:59:43,014 --> 00:59:45,724
I, I, I always found those sort of like sneaky and...

951
00:59:46,174 --> 00:59:51,854
Sort of coming, coming to this from the back door, uh, because it doesn't

952
00:59:51,864 --> 00:59:56,294
actually answer any of the questions about whether or not this exists

953
00:59:56,294 --> 00:59:58,624
and why it exists or how it exists.

954
00:59:58,634 --> 01:00:03,184
It's just, it exists and therefore we need to Uh, we, we need to

955
01:00:03,244 --> 01:00:04,594
obey it or something like that.

956
01:00:04,984 --> 01:00:14,424
Um, but all that is to say that fiat money is, uh, is a denial of, uh, the fund.

957
01:00:14,484 --> 01:00:17,364
It's creating its own rules about Right.

958
01:00:17,364 --> 01:00:23,994
It's, it's creating its own, uh, it's man trying to, Um, deny the property rights

959
01:00:24,014 --> 01:00:29,404
of other people by essentially saying we're making up the rules and we can,

960
01:00:30,094 --> 01:00:35,374
we can, uh, sort of sneakily through the back door, through inflation, through

961
01:00:35,664 --> 01:00:41,864
stealth taxation, steal from others because that, that is, that is okay in

962
01:00:41,864 --> 01:00:48,364
the light of, in, in the absence of this natural law of this Other real order.

963
01:00:48,744 --> 01:00:56,234
Um, and, uh, whereas sound money, uh, is based on this idea of natural law,

964
01:00:56,234 --> 01:01:01,744
and I, I, I really do believe that having, uh, natural law for natural

965
01:01:01,744 --> 01:01:07,774
law, you, you need for any morality really, uh, other than like a nietzche

966
01:01:07,804 --> 01:01:09,784
one, which is very sociopathic.

967
01:01:10,554 --> 01:01:11,664
You need a creator.

968
01:01:11,664 --> 01:01:14,274
You need, you need some, you, you need, you need some order.

969
01:01:14,274 --> 01:01:16,994
Like 'cause how, how do you answer?

970
01:01:17,474 --> 01:01:21,324
Why, why should you believe, like, how do you go from is to ought?

971
01:01:21,334 --> 01:01:26,044
How, why should you have, uh, you know, respect other people's property rights?

972
01:01:26,174 --> 01:01:30,484
And, and so that, that's my argument for why I think fiat

973
01:01:30,484 --> 01:01:32,454
money is an atheist money.

974
01:01:32,494 --> 01:01:35,024
So I, I just wanted to throw that out there.

975
01:01:35,584 --> 01:01:37,904
So I, I, I don't know.

976
01:01:37,904 --> 01:01:38,554
What do you think?

977
01:01:39,754 --> 01:01:41,184
Yeah, I'll give you a reply.

978
01:01:41,184 --> 01:01:43,794
It's going to be quite long, but I'll do my best.

979
01:01:44,234 --> 01:01:50,214
So, to shorten it down, I would say that I don't believe you need

980
01:01:50,234 --> 01:01:54,264
a creator to accept natural law.

981
01:01:55,064 --> 01:02:00,484
On the contrary, I say, I think that Even Hoppe's argumentation ethics is

982
01:02:00,484 --> 01:02:05,214
a good basis for morality, since you can prove that, you know, you can,

983
01:02:05,234 --> 01:02:10,784
you can literally prove from deductive reasoning that, uh, forceful interactions

984
01:02:10,814 --> 01:02:15,994
are probably, uh, not beneficial to you, but, but detrimental to you.

985
01:02:16,334 --> 01:02:20,014
So, so you can build your entire morality around, around

986
01:02:20,014 --> 01:02:21,304
that framework, if you will.

987
01:02:21,654 --> 01:02:22,424
Furthermore...

988
01:02:22,639 --> 01:02:23,629
I view state,

989
01:02:23,664 --> 01:02:25,574
like a utilitarian morality.

990
01:02:26,209 --> 01:02:28,909
yes, very utilitarian, yes, I would

991
01:02:29,094 --> 01:02:31,374
Okay, but, but utility is subjective, right?

992
01:02:31,484 --> 01:02:36,584
So, how do you, how do you, how do you get, like, you don't have a meter here.

993
01:02:36,594 --> 01:02:39,934
You, how do you determine whether something is beneficial to you or

994
01:02:39,934 --> 01:02:44,014
not if you don't have, um, if you don't have an objective standard?

995
01:02:44,539 --> 01:02:48,129
Well, I think that's ingrained in all of us, like, we have

996
01:02:48,129 --> 01:02:49,499
a survival instinct, right?

997
01:02:49,499 --> 01:02:54,119
So we don't want violence to happen to us and when we realize that

998
01:02:54,169 --> 01:02:57,799
if we respect property rights, there's a higher likelihood that

999
01:02:57,849 --> 01:02:58,699
other people will respect ours.

1000
01:03:00,449 --> 01:03:05,809
Uh, uh, then you can just deductively reason yourself to, I have a higher

1001
01:03:06,339 --> 01:03:10,199
survival probability and so does my family if we're just nice to one another

1002
01:03:10,199 --> 01:03:11,979
and do things consensually instead

1003
01:03:12,054 --> 01:03:15,934
I mean, your, your, your contention then is that existence is beneficial

1004
01:03:15,934 --> 01:03:18,384
or good or, uh, in some way,

1005
01:03:19,989 --> 01:03:23,559
Well, uh, we don't know the, what the alternative is.

1006
01:03:23,759 --> 01:03:27,969
So in a sense, nobody knows, uh, what nothingness feels like.

1007
01:03:27,969 --> 01:03:31,319
It probably feels like whatever happened before your birth,

1008
01:03:31,719 --> 01:03:33,959
but, but, but still there's.

1009
01:03:34,594 --> 01:03:39,244
The, I think that the finiteness of a human lifetime is what gives it value.

1010
01:03:39,544 --> 01:03:41,214
It's because it's like Bitcoin.

1011
01:03:41,234 --> 01:03:45,254
That's why Bitcoin maps on so perfectly to the scarcity of a human life.

1012
01:03:45,554 --> 01:03:49,954
So I view the, the, the thought of an afterlife as a sort of celestial money

1013
01:03:49,954 --> 01:03:55,004
printer, if you will, because it's the promise of something more of a scarce

1014
01:03:55,044 --> 01:03:56,884
resource that isn't really there.

1015
01:03:56,969 --> 01:04:00,349
you're attributing value to a human life, period.

1016
01:04:01,114 --> 01:04:03,034
No, I'm saying that individuals do.

1017
01:04:03,419 --> 01:04:06,599
so, like, you, you need some justification.

1018
01:04:07,559 --> 01:04:09,419
Why he human life is valuable.

1019
01:04:09,419 --> 01:04:09,629
No.

1020
01:04:09,844 --> 01:04:13,144
observation in the world is that people value their lives.

1021
01:04:14,129 --> 01:04:14,459
Okay.

1022
01:04:14,459 --> 01:04:15,509
That that is true.

1023
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:17,609
People do subjectively value their lives.

1024
01:04:17,609 --> 01:04:17,879
Yes.

1025
01:04:18,084 --> 01:04:18,724
yeah, yeah.

1026
01:04:18,964 --> 01:04:24,774
And I think that if you, if you just observe that you value your life

1027
01:04:24,774 --> 01:04:28,434
and that other people's value their lives too, then you can deductively

1028
01:04:28,904 --> 01:04:31,874
reason yourself to a moral standard.

1029
01:04:32,314 --> 01:04:35,154
Some people may need a, uh, guidelines.

1030
01:04:35,459 --> 01:04:38,339
the, these are all subjective valuations.

1031
01:04:38,639 --> 01:04:42,979
How does that make, you know, survival of everybody?

1032
01:04:42,979 --> 01:04:44,719
A, an objective value?

1033
01:04:45,259 --> 01:04:46,639
But so is belief in God.

1034
01:04:46,679 --> 01:04:48,539
That's also a subjective thought.

1035
01:04:48,969 --> 01:04:53,239
Like, it's you think that, I don't, and well, that's

1036
01:04:53,569 --> 01:04:58,909
Well, no, no, no, but, but I, I, I'm, I'm contending, I I'm not talking about mine.

1037
01:04:58,969 --> 01:05:03,629
I'm talking about yours, which is, You believe that human life has value.

1038
01:05:03,639 --> 01:05:05,879
Where does, where does that belief come from?

1039
01:05:05,879 --> 01:05:07,899
And you're, you're saying it can be derived,

1040
01:05:08,529 --> 01:05:10,099
Why do you believe it?

1041
01:05:10,229 --> 01:05:12,569
admitted that it's a subjective task.

1042
01:05:12,569 --> 01:05:15,949
I mean, they're, they're suicidal people, for example, that think

1043
01:05:15,949 --> 01:05:17,299
their life is worth nothing.

1044
01:05:17,329 --> 01:05:20,989
So like, it's, uh, it's universal.

1045
01:05:21,009 --> 01:05:24,199
So how do you, how do you come up with, okay, a lot of

1046
01:05:24,209 --> 01:05:25,679
people do value their lives.

1047
01:05:25,749 --> 01:05:28,669
Therefore, time is objectively valuable.

1048
01:05:29,150 --> 01:05:34,950
I think, since valuations are subjective, the only thing that, if you were

1049
01:05:34,970 --> 01:05:38,850
immortal and indestructible, you wouldn't ever be compelled to act, because you

1050
01:05:38,850 --> 01:05:41,040
could postpone every act indefinitely.

1051
01:05:41,580 --> 01:05:42,150
I mean, if

1052
01:05:42,150 --> 01:05:45,270
Well, I mean, we're not talking about omnipotent beings, we're

1053
01:05:45,270 --> 01:05:47,200
talking about your particular belief.

1054
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:48,530
You don't believe in God,

1055
01:05:48,550 --> 01:05:49,050
Yeah, yeah.

1056
01:05:49,090 --> 01:05:50,130
I'm talking about me.

1057
01:05:50,220 --> 01:05:53,680
If I, if I was immortal and indestructible, I wouldn't act

1058
01:05:53,980 --> 01:05:58,710
because a second or a minute or a day wouldn't be valuable to me.

1059
01:05:58,980 --> 01:06:01,940
There would be no distinction between the value of a, of a,

1060
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:04,920
of a day and a 10, 000 years,

1061
01:06:05,010 --> 01:06:07,220
I mean, what does that have to do with you now?

1062
01:06:07,220 --> 01:06:10,310
That's, that's a hypothetical on, on, you're not omnipotent

1063
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:12,500
and you're not immortal.

1064
01:06:12,500 --> 01:06:15,870
So, why, why does that even enter your, your

1065
01:06:16,380 --> 01:06:20,710
that doesn't require omnipotence even it's just immortal and indestructible.

1066
01:06:20,740 --> 01:06:23,360
So, so the, the point is that the scarcity

1067
01:06:23,370 --> 01:06:24,610
you're not either of those.

1068
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:26,040
Why are you bringing that up?

1069
01:06:26,050 --> 01:06:29,610
I'm asking about why you value time.

1070
01:06:29,650 --> 01:06:30,700
can I answer Jimmy?

1071
01:06:30,700 --> 01:06:30,860
I'm,

1072
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:35,158
I'm saying that the finiteness of my life is what, what makes me think

1073
01:06:35,158 --> 01:06:39,448
it's valuable, just as the finiteness of Bitcoin is what makes me think

1074
01:06:39,448 --> 01:06:43,448
that it has value to others, like, uh, there's a connection there.

1075
01:06:43,808 --> 01:06:47,208
So, so, but to your point about the other stuff is that.

1076
01:06:47,433 --> 01:06:53,113
Uh, I view statism and communism and all of these brutal things as just the

1077
01:06:53,113 --> 01:06:56,323
next iteration of organized religion.

1078
01:06:56,333 --> 01:06:58,043
They're, they're, they're the same thing.

1079
01:06:58,053 --> 01:06:59,613
They're arguably even worse.

1080
01:06:59,653 --> 01:07:03,133
I've, I've changed my views on that since finding Bitcoin, by the way.

1081
01:07:03,618 --> 01:07:07,928
And I now view statism as the worst form of religion yet, since it's

1082
01:07:07,928 --> 01:07:09,518
more intrusive than the others.

1083
01:07:09,568 --> 01:07:14,868
And it's, it's arguably better for the flock to believe in a fictitious guy in

1084
01:07:14,868 --> 01:07:17,448
the sky than to believe in Kim Jong un.

1085
01:07:17,508 --> 01:07:20,028
I understand that, that aspect of it.

1086
01:07:20,498 --> 01:07:24,638
But having said that, fiat money requires belief.

1087
01:07:25,503 --> 01:07:28,033
And it's scarce in that they're scarce.

1088
01:07:28,033 --> 01:07:32,243
They require you to appeal to some form of authority.

1089
01:07:32,853 --> 01:07:36,273
Bitcoin has none of that since everything in it is verifiable.

1090
01:07:36,273 --> 01:07:41,473
You can, you can look everything up, uh, and you can check for yourself

1091
01:07:41,513 --> 01:07:44,563
that people are actually doing what they're saying they're doing.

1092
01:07:44,913 --> 01:07:49,583
So that's why I view it as financial atheism and not, uh, it's the

1093
01:07:49,623 --> 01:07:53,353
only type of money we've ever had that doesn't require belief.

1094
01:07:54,098 --> 01:07:54,858
You know what I mean?

1095
01:07:55,578 --> 01:08:01,248
Like, uh, even the gold monger could say that the, oh, you have to buy this gold

1096
01:08:01,248 --> 01:08:03,628
for coin from me because gold is scarce.

1097
01:08:03,948 --> 01:08:08,308
And you, there was no way of verifying that gold was actually scarce except

1098
01:08:08,328 --> 01:08:10,168
going and trying to dig for it yourself.

1099
01:08:10,248 --> 01:08:15,258
So Bitcoin, you, doesn't require any type of belief.

1100
01:08:15,278 --> 01:08:18,608
And that's why I think it maps on so well to atheism.

1101
01:08:18,998 --> 01:08:22,278
And, but the beauty of this is that.

1102
01:08:23,253 --> 01:08:26,853
We have these differences of opinion here, and it's still,

1103
01:08:27,273 --> 01:08:30,043
both worldviews map onto Bitcoin.

1104
01:08:30,043 --> 01:08:33,263
That's what I find fascinating, and so does a plethora of

1105
01:08:33,263 --> 01:08:36,213
other worldviews as well.

1106
01:08:36,823 --> 01:08:37,703
Okay, done with the

1107
01:08:37,718 --> 01:08:44,468
I think respecting property rights is something that's part of natural law.

1108
01:08:45,538 --> 01:08:51,508
Uh, like, uh, for, for me, when, when, when you say like, uh, fiat is organized

1109
01:08:51,508 --> 01:08:57,658
religion, I, I mean, I, I think Statism is not organized religion at all.

1110
01:08:57,658 --> 01:08:59,788
It's, it's just somebody,

1111
01:09:00,543 --> 01:09:01,303
It's a cult.

1112
01:09:01,413 --> 01:09:04,648
somebody just sort of controlling things for everybody else.

1113
01:09:04,648 --> 01:09:04,888
There's.

1114
01:09:05,593 --> 01:09:07,123
Religious aspect to it.

1115
01:09:07,123 --> 01:09:10,753
There's no, you know, like afterlife or anything like that, . It's

1116
01:09:10,753 --> 01:09:13,363
just we control you and that's it.

1117
01:09:13,363 --> 01:09:13,633
Right?

1118
01:09:13,633 --> 01:09:15,103
Like it's, and most

1119
01:09:15,133 --> 01:09:17,053
does the dollar bill say, in God we trust?

1120
01:09:17,423 --> 01:09:18,613
And the bitcoin does not.

1121
01:09:19,053 --> 01:09:23,163
I mean, like that, that's, I, I don't know who, who put that there,

1122
01:09:23,163 --> 01:09:25,263
but that, that the whole idea.

1123
01:09:26,418 --> 01:09:30,538
The idea of fiat money was always, here, we get to make the

1124
01:09:30,538 --> 01:09:31,878
rules because we are in power.

1125
01:09:31,878 --> 01:09:37,278
It's very Nietzschean in that regard, uh, in, in that the people that

1126
01:09:37,278 --> 01:09:40,998
make, uh, that create the rules, the ones in power get to, get to

1127
01:09:41,178 --> 01:09:42,808
set the rules for everybody else.

1128
01:09:42,958 --> 01:09:48,348
And, in a sense it, it, uh, it denies sort of like individual

1129
01:09:48,358 --> 01:09:53,798
dignity, um, and that is of course, a Christian concept, the idea that

1130
01:09:53,858 --> 01:09:55,438
people have value and it, it, it...

1131
01:09:55,693 --> 01:10:01,163
It wasn't sort of like, uh, something that most people even

1132
01:10:01,173 --> 01:10:06,573
heard of or thought legitimate until Christianity came into being.

1133
01:10:06,583 --> 01:10:11,193
Like, before that it was, you know, throw, like, you're only as

1134
01:10:11,193 --> 01:10:15,473
valuable as you are useful to the community that you're in and so on.

1135
01:10:15,473 --> 01:10:21,493
So, like, this idea that individuals have this importance

1136
01:10:21,533 --> 01:10:24,468
and that Their time is valuable.

1137
01:10:25,278 --> 01:10:28,448
It requires, I think, a Christian worldview.

1138
01:10:28,488 --> 01:10:33,908
I think it requires this concept of human dignity, which I don't think you

1139
01:10:33,908 --> 01:10:36,138
can derive from any form of atheism.

1140
01:10:36,148 --> 01:10:40,658
You can't say, okay, people are intrinsically valuable.

1141
01:10:41,078 --> 01:10:41,618
Unless...

1142
01:10:42,743 --> 01:10:48,463
There, I mean, like, you, you need some reason for that and it's, uh, it's,

1143
01:10:48,483 --> 01:10:54,823
it's a little bit taken as like an axiom for a lot of, uh, a lot of, I guess,

1144
01:10:54,873 --> 01:11:00,603
atheists on the left as far as I can tell, but it's, it comes from a Christian

1145
01:11:00,603 --> 01:11:06,203
worldview and I don't know how you get that without, you know, some, uh, Imago

1146
01:11:06,203 --> 01:11:12,353
Dei, some, uh, some, uh, idea that, that there is value in human beings.

1147
01:11:12,745 --> 01:11:14,315
I don't really see why you need one.

1148
01:11:14,615 --> 01:11:19,245
You can just observe the world around you, and I think you find empathy in

1149
01:11:19,405 --> 01:11:25,209
just, like, Empathy is inherent within us, whether we live in a place that

1150
01:11:25,299 --> 01:11:27,879
even has Christianity or not, I'm sure.

1151
01:11:28,544 --> 01:11:35,534
You know, Eskimos have, uh, uh, or Inuit, so they call them these days, right, and

1152
01:11:35,534 --> 01:11:41,084
not Eskimos, that's a, that's one of those taboo words, but, uh, if, what I'm saying,

1153
01:11:41,104 --> 01:11:47,874
like, a, a tribe of human beings on a deserted, on an island that has never seen

1154
01:11:48,284 --> 01:11:53,604
any Christian ever, you know, a tribe that can also have a morality and they can also

1155
01:11:53,604 --> 01:11:57,964
have an inherent empathy for one another.

1156
01:11:58,629 --> 01:11:59,729
they had a very different morality.

1157
01:12:00,049 --> 01:12:03,909
It was a morality that didn't value specific individuals

1158
01:12:03,909 --> 01:12:05,109
just for being people.

1159
01:12:05,149 --> 01:12:08,899
So, for example, like, ancient Sparta, ancient Sparta.

1160
01:12:08,939 --> 01:12:14,119
They, they, if a baby had a defect, they let them die, right?

1161
01:12:14,129 --> 01:12:15,639
Like, they killed them, more or less.

1162
01:12:16,109 --> 01:12:17,859
Like, that was a very common thing.

1163
01:12:18,209 --> 01:12:19,739
You know, child sacrifice.

1164
01:12:20,164 --> 01:12:20,774
Very common.

1165
01:12:23,324 --> 01:12:27,784
The concept of human dignity, of individuals being worth something, and

1166
01:12:27,784 --> 01:12:32,824
I think if I heard you correctly before, what you were saying is human time is

1167
01:12:32,824 --> 01:12:39,434
valuable, and for each individual, I think in that is this assumption that people are

1168
01:12:39,434 --> 01:12:46,344
valuable and as I'm saying like it's very I don't know of an atheist formulation

1169
01:12:46,364 --> 01:12:50,634
that can derive that because once again you're trying to go from is to ought

1170
01:12:51,044 --> 01:12:55,384
What's the christian, uh, how does a christian go from, uh, an ought

1171
01:12:55,394 --> 01:12:57,214
to an is then, or an is to an

1172
01:12:57,244 --> 01:13:00,794
well I mean you know you don't need to because you have the existence

1173
01:13:00,794 --> 01:13:05,114
of God and if you believe in an all powerful being then of course he

1174
01:13:05,114 --> 01:13:09,954
he can he he can set morality and and that's that's what we believe.

1175
01:13:10,186 --> 01:13:13,106
Each person is, uh, uh, is made in the image of God and

1176
01:13:13,106 --> 01:13:14,986
therefore each person is valuable.

1177
01:13:15,356 --> 01:13:19,656
And like that, that's, that's a Christian, it's a very specifically Christian thing.

1178
01:13:20,006 --> 01:13:23,766
I, I want you to understand how different it, it was from everything

1179
01:13:23,766 --> 01:13:29,406
that came before because people were sacrificed and people were thrown away.

1180
01:13:29,406 --> 01:13:33,346
People were enslaved and things like that without any recourse.

1181
01:13:33,456 --> 01:13:36,316
Uh, and, and part of it was because they thought...

1182
01:13:36,876 --> 01:13:42,446
Human beings, like, are almost like property, um, but, you know, the, the,

1183
01:13:42,456 --> 01:13:48,526
this idea that you, you know, people are valuable or that they, they have, um,

1184
01:13:48,536 --> 01:13:52,996
you know, their time is valuable has to come from some basis and I, I'm not sure

1185
01:13:53,006 --> 01:13:54,826
you, you have that in your formulation.

1186
01:13:55,036 --> 01:13:59,736
human race survived for hundreds of thousands and even millions

1187
01:13:59,736 --> 01:14:05,246
of years without Christianity, before, before Christianity even

1188
01:14:05,486 --> 01:14:06,186
Yeah, and,

1189
01:14:06,266 --> 01:14:09,326
and do you think that was all, all brutal?

1190
01:14:09,766 --> 01:14:10,426
I don't think so.

1191
01:14:10,426 --> 01:14:12,576
I think people took great care of one another and

1192
01:14:12,876 --> 01:14:16,676
mean, I, we don't, we don't really know, but a lot of it was very brutal.

1193
01:14:17,666 --> 01:14:18,496
yeah, very brutal.

1194
01:14:18,526 --> 01:14:20,896
But so was a lot of Christian history as well.

1195
01:14:20,916 --> 01:14:22,646
I mean, the Crusades and, you

1196
01:14:22,811 --> 01:14:23,761
no, I'm just

1197
01:14:23,946 --> 01:14:27,306
conquering of the Americas was very, very brutal.

1198
01:14:27,451 --> 01:14:30,491
Yeah, yeah, but like Knut, you're bringing up other stuff.

1199
01:14:30,511 --> 01:14:35,421
I'm asking you where your formulation that individual time is valuable

1200
01:14:35,901 --> 01:14:37,531
requires, like, comes from.

1201
01:14:37,531 --> 01:14:42,211
Because if it, if it is valuable, if time is valuable to each, every

1202
01:14:42,211 --> 01:14:47,681
individual's time is valuable, you need to have some concept of individual value.

1203
01:14:48,161 --> 01:14:53,151
And under atheism, Like, how do you get to the point where individuals are valuable?

1204
01:14:53,393 --> 01:14:57,053
Let me, let me to really try, really try to answer that question.

1205
01:14:57,653 --> 01:15:03,633
Like, I would say that a human lifetime is a scarce resource.

1206
01:15:04,033 --> 01:15:07,853
And like other scarce resources, there's supply and demand for it.

1207
01:15:08,153 --> 01:15:11,143
So others have demand for your labor, for instance.

1208
01:15:11,593 --> 01:15:18,483
Uh, so, so your, your time is valuable to other human beings because you can provide

1209
01:15:18,483 --> 01:15:20,843
them with services during that lifetime.

1210
01:15:21,133 --> 01:15:22,603
You can provide value to them.

1211
01:15:22,803 --> 01:15:26,043
Like, Jimmy, you're valuable to me right now, and I hope I'm valuable

1212
01:15:26,043 --> 01:15:28,943
to you because we're having this conversation with one another.

1213
01:15:29,153 --> 01:15:34,098
We're exchanging My life for your life and vice versa right now, we're, we're,

1214
01:15:34,108 --> 01:15:39,858
we're expending, we're spending our time with one another, literally spending

1215
01:15:39,858 --> 01:15:41,878
it because we're not getting it back.

1216
01:15:42,128 --> 01:15:45,488
So to me, it's just like any other good or service in the world.

1217
01:15:45,508 --> 01:15:49,068
It's, it's valuable because it's scarce and there's a demand for it.

1218
01:15:49,808 --> 01:15:53,768
And that's what makes a human life valuable, literally.

1219
01:15:54,105 --> 01:15:58,895
Alright, and that's a very utilitarian sort of conception, and I, I think,

1220
01:15:58,905 --> 01:16:02,605
like, the ancient Spartans would have agreed with you, well, there, there's

1221
01:16:02,605 --> 01:16:08,415
this baby that is horribly deformed, um, and, you know, it, it isn't going

1222
01:16:08,415 --> 01:16:10,735
to be able to walk, uh, or anything.

1223
01:16:11,110 --> 01:16:15,520
Uh, and their, their time is unvaluable because they are not going to

1224
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:17,600
provide any good or service to us.

1225
01:16:17,910 --> 01:16:23,090
Therefore, we're going to let it freeze out in, uh, in the, you know,

1226
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:27,060
it, you know, and like, just not have it be a part of our community.

1227
01:16:27,070 --> 01:16:30,130
And under your formulation, that would be correct.

1228
01:16:30,410 --> 01:16:32,390
I mean, and that's fine.

1229
01:16:32,390 --> 01:16:36,910
If you, if you have that morality, I'm not going to say that that's illegitimate.

1230
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:40,360
But I'm just saying, like, The Christian response would be,

1231
01:16:40,370 --> 01:16:41,870
that baby is still valuable.

1232
01:16:42,180 --> 01:16:46,720
Yes, and uh, I think that I differ from Christians sometimes there, would you

1233
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:52,740
let a brain dead baby stay alive for 10 years without any, any functioning

1234
01:16:52,750 --> 01:16:54,950
brain, any functioning conscious?

1235
01:16:55,410 --> 01:16:57,880
Yes, they're the image of God.

1236
01:16:58,020 --> 01:16:59,800
Yes, absolutely.

1237
01:17:00,380 --> 01:17:05,550
Alright, I think we differ there then, and I think you're, I think I'm a brutal

1238
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:12,040
murderer for doing so, but I think the, the, the, the case for, for uh, for

1239
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:17,240
pulling the plug on that machine that is artificially keeping that Vegetable alive.

1240
01:17:17,630 --> 01:17:20,590
It's, there's a moral case for, to be made for that.

1241
01:17:20,630 --> 01:17:26,180
If you just have this Christian, every, if every, every life is equal,

1242
01:17:26,700 --> 01:17:27,010
right?

1243
01:17:27,030 --> 01:17:30,880
Like somebody that is a burden to a lot of people and so on.

1244
01:17:31,480 --> 01:17:35,625
But I mean, like But, but there's like somebody that's homeless that's like

1245
01:17:35,625 --> 01:17:40,365
mentally ill and not able to do it, hold it, hold down any job or whatever.

1246
01:17:40,725 --> 01:17:46,465
Like, the lines get a lot grayer, Knut, and if you don't have this conception

1247
01:17:46,465 --> 01:17:50,665
that individuals are valuable for their own sake, then you very quickly

1248
01:17:50,685 --> 01:17:55,315
get into very dark places, like morally speaking, you know what I

1249
01:17:55,460 --> 01:17:59,020
well I do, but I, I think your argument gets you into the Superman

1250
01:17:59,020 --> 01:18:02,990
dilemma that you took up before again, because like, now, now, now you're

1251
01:18:02,990 --> 01:18:07,110
saying that each and every life on earth should be respected equally.

1252
01:18:07,110 --> 01:18:11,210
Therefore, it becomes your calling to go and save everyone then.

1253
01:18:11,850 --> 01:18:16,610
It's like, is that even, uh, is that even a worldview that

1254
01:18:16,630 --> 01:18:19,990
is productive for that cause?

1255
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:25,210
I don't know, like, why aren't you a doctor and running around saving

1256
01:18:25,375 --> 01:18:26,385
was a waste?

1257
01:18:26,475 --> 01:18:29,095
I mean, she, she went into Calcutta and...

1258
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:34,010
Took, uh, took, took on, like, babies that, like, nobody wanted

1259
01:18:34,010 --> 01:18:35,430
and helped raise them and stuff like

1260
01:18:35,500 --> 01:18:40,700
Only if, only if they said that, uh, only if they accepted God.

1261
01:18:41,130 --> 01:18:44,010
If they didn't accept the rules that she set for them, she

1262
01:18:44,010 --> 01:18:45,380
was fucking brutal to them.

1263
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:48,740
She was not a good human being in my opinion, at all.

1264
01:18:49,300 --> 01:18:51,460
She took money from the horrible dictators.

1265
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:52,960
one wanted.

1266
01:18:53,170 --> 01:18:55,050
Like, these were people that no one

1267
01:18:55,130 --> 01:18:57,850
but she only helped them if they accepted God.

1268
01:18:58,060 --> 01:19:00,440
So if they adopted what she

1269
01:19:00,570 --> 01:19:03,629
I mean, like, the thing is, like, she, she, she...

1270
01:19:04,220 --> 01:19:07,850
I mean, the thing is, Knut, you're, you're, you're, you're

1271
01:19:07,850 --> 01:19:10,340
then in a worse position because you wouldn't help them at all.

1272
01:19:11,570 --> 01:19:14,980
No, I would, I would absolutely help them if I could.

1273
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:17,450
And I, if I think, if I thought that that was

1274
01:19:17,450 --> 01:19:19,810
So aren't you in the same Superman dilemma?

1275
01:19:19,810 --> 01:19:22,820
I mean, like, you're, you're making it sound like it's a Christian problem, but

1276
01:19:22,820 --> 01:19:24,150
you, you just said you would help them.

1277
01:19:24,685 --> 01:19:30,235
I think you and I have found the same solution to that Superman dilemma, not

1278
01:19:30,245 --> 01:19:34,195
that none of, I don't think neither you or I, nor I think that we're Superman,

1279
01:19:34,495 --> 01:19:39,835
but I think we found, uh, spending our time explaining to Bitcoin to people

1280
01:19:39,885 --> 01:19:44,205
is the best thing we can do for the most, the biggest amount of people.

1281
01:19:44,205 --> 01:19:46,485
Like, that's, that's the best way we can help it.

1282
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:50,090
We can leave this planet a little better than we came into it.

1283
01:19:50,480 --> 01:19:52,460
That's, that's my goal with this anyway.

1284
01:19:52,460 --> 01:19:55,460
To, to, to, to, to make the world a better place.

1285
01:19:55,490 --> 01:19:59,810
Uh, uh, sounds pretentious, but, but I think you have that goal as well.

1286
01:19:59,815 --> 01:19:59,990
And I

1287
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:01,900
does better even mean for you though?

1288
01:20:01,980 --> 01:20:04,550
Like, uh, like, cause in a sense, like.

1289
01:20:05,190 --> 01:20:10,710
Is it, is it the optimization of human life or utility that other people find?

1290
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:15,850
Or, I mean, because I have trouble understanding what the end goal is when

1291
01:20:16,660 --> 01:20:21,180
like, it's, it's hard for me to see what you see as good and what you see as bad.

1292
01:20:21,626 --> 01:20:26,156
Well, I see violence as bad, and, uh, communication as good.

1293
01:20:26,246 --> 01:20:29,696
Like it's the, it's back to the hopper argumentation for,

1294
01:20:29,726 --> 01:20:31,466
uh, argument for argumentation.

1295
01:20:31,466 --> 01:20:37,200
Again, like The, the more the freer the market, the sounder the money, the, the,

1296
01:20:37,350 --> 01:20:40,290
the fewer resources get misallocated.

1297
01:20:40,290 --> 01:20:41,430
I know we agree on that.

1298
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:46,760
And, uh, by misallocation we, we mean that they're not put in use

1299
01:20:46,820 --> 01:20:51,440
for, for individuals to reach their individual ends and goals.

1300
01:20:51,530 --> 01:20:56,520
Uh, they're the a a a a select few get to choose all that.

1301
01:20:56,520 --> 01:21:00,420
And, and in doing so, they also ruin things for themselves, but they don't know

1302
01:21:00,420 --> 01:21:03,040
it because they don't know the power of the free market and so on and so forth.

1303
01:21:04,017 --> 01:21:11,607
it's, it's easy to be good without, without having to have, um, uh, like,

1304
01:21:11,637 --> 01:21:15,787
I don't see why a belief in a god would necessarily change that dilemma.

1305
01:21:16,687 --> 01:21:18,937
Um, I don't see why, why it would be.

1306
01:21:19,162 --> 01:21:20,772
might not in all God.

1307
01:21:20,792 --> 01:21:26,052
I know if you believe in my God that the dilemma is solved very easily, but

1308
01:21:26,582 --> 01:21:34,012
I, but the, the, the main thing is that it's, uh, under what, and to go back to

1309
01:21:34,012 --> 01:21:39,157
sort of the original argument with fiat money, what you had is people making

1310
01:21:39,157 --> 01:21:44,597
the rules instead of following the rules that I think are set by natural law.

1311
01:21:44,617 --> 01:21:50,187
And the basis of natural law, I think, requires some sort of moral order.

1312
01:21:50,217 --> 01:21:55,297
And, uh, and a moral order under an atheist view is very difficult to come up

1313
01:21:55,367 --> 01:21:58,057
just like this is the is to ought thing.

1314
01:21:59,032 --> 01:22:00,362
Knut, I want to take this one.

1315
01:22:00,362 --> 01:22:01,142
I want to take this one.

1316
01:22:01,142 --> 01:22:01,412
Okay.

1317
01:22:01,452 --> 01:22:01,782
Okay.

1318
01:22:02,872 --> 01:22:09,222
I, I, I want to, to, because I think I'm seeing here the real clash that,

1319
01:22:09,362 --> 01:22:13,222
that Jimmy, I think not to put words in your mouth, but I think you are making

1320
01:22:13,222 --> 01:22:14,592
an assertion, something about that.

1321
01:22:15,277 --> 01:22:18,447
Without a belief in the Christian God, you cannot have the

1322
01:22:18,477 --> 01:22:20,487
exact same level of morality.

1323
01:22:20,977 --> 01:22:25,327
My assertion is that meaning is still possible, and finding meaning

1324
01:22:26,207 --> 01:22:30,877
through whichever means of morality, justification, learning it, learning it

1325
01:22:30,877 --> 01:22:33,007
through culture, learning it through self.

1326
01:22:33,267 --> 01:22:38,257
I would say that many people in the Bitcoin community who are not Christians,

1327
01:22:38,307 --> 01:22:43,047
who have found Bitcoin and improved themselves, have Learned to have some

1328
01:22:43,047 --> 01:22:47,827
kind of meaning, whether it's through Bitcoin or Bitcoin adjacent things.

1329
01:22:48,127 --> 01:22:52,627
And so I would put you both in the camp of meaning having people and

1330
01:22:52,627 --> 01:22:57,177
it's the absence of meaning that fiat comes from in my view, because

1331
01:22:57,207 --> 01:22:58,807
that's the Nietzschean thing, right?

1332
01:22:59,297 --> 01:23:01,257
We, uh, God is dead and we have killed him.

1333
01:23:01,257 --> 01:23:03,967
It's the absence of meeting, not specifically the absence

1334
01:23:03,967 --> 01:23:05,607
of the Christian God, right?

1335
01:23:05,816 --> 01:23:08,896
Well, it's, it's not just the absence of meaning, but it's, it's

1336
01:23:08,896 --> 01:23:10,636
the absence of traditional morality.

1337
01:23:10,666 --> 01:23:15,646
So, A lot of the morality that we take for granted, almost, comes

1338
01:23:15,646 --> 01:23:17,946
from a very Christian worldview.

1339
01:23:18,036 --> 01:23:22,796
I think I've made that case with, uh, you know, like, sort of babies and, uh,

1340
01:23:22,816 --> 01:23:28,676
that, like, in almost every other culture before Christianity, this was the norm

1341
01:23:28,716 --> 01:23:35,821
to, uh, To, like, treat people almost like property in some ways, or it, uh, based on

1342
01:23:35,821 --> 01:23:41,811
utilitarian, uh, calculations or something like that, I, I, I find that abhorrent, I

1343
01:23:41,841 --> 01:23:47,111
think most people do, to, like, just sort of callously set aside somebody because

1344
01:23:47,121 --> 01:23:51,651
they're no longer useful to society, that, I mean, that, that would be Horrible.

1345
01:23:51,751 --> 01:23:53,501
I, I, I think most people agree with that.

1346
01:23:53,901 --> 01:24:00,151
I'm, I'm just, uh, I'm asserting that natural law, and it's not about like

1347
01:24:00,181 --> 01:24:05,491
alignment with Christianity or whatever, that natural law, at the very least,

1348
01:24:06,021 --> 01:24:08,311
requires some sort of moral order.

1349
01:24:08,911 --> 01:24:11,441
Now, as a Christian, I would say that that's the law

1350
01:24:11,461 --> 01:24:13,251
written on our hearts by God.

1351
01:24:13,901 --> 01:24:18,121
Uh, but you know, for, for, for an atheist, you have, you have

1352
01:24:18,121 --> 01:24:20,001
to come up with why that's true.

1353
01:24:20,441 --> 01:24:24,236
Like why, why Uh, you know, like committing violence

1354
01:24:24,266 --> 01:24:26,296
against somebody else is bad.

1355
01:24:26,296 --> 01:24:30,556
And, and, you know, Knut, I think, uh, to your credit, the, the formulations you've

1356
01:24:30,556 --> 01:24:36,486
come up with are because it's more useful, but I would submit to you that utilitarian

1357
01:24:36,486 --> 01:24:38,746
arguments almost always lead to.

1358
01:24:39,171 --> 01:24:44,691
A very bad philosophical place because you get into the trolley dilemma and

1359
01:24:44,691 --> 01:24:48,801
stuff like that where you're, you know, harvesting a fat man's organs so

1360
01:24:48,801 --> 01:24:52,631
you can, you can go and uh, save five people or something, you know, like,

1361
01:24:52,752 --> 01:24:54,962
Okay, no, no, no.

1362
01:24:55,292 --> 01:25:00,212
Where I'm coming from, Jimmy, is that the very notion of a God and these,

1363
01:25:00,292 --> 01:25:06,042
uh, these moral guidelines that you talk about, I believe that they came

1364
01:25:06,052 --> 01:25:08,322
from a guy trying to do just that.

1365
01:25:08,662 --> 01:25:12,512
Trying to find a way to rationalize that, and he wrote this story

1366
01:25:12,512 --> 01:25:14,032
down, and that's how he did that.

1367
01:25:14,252 --> 01:25:18,202
So I think man preceded God, and that's where we differ, because I think

1368
01:25:18,202 --> 01:25:19,552
this is a story we tell ourselves.

1369
01:25:19,887 --> 01:25:24,547
but, but by saying that you're saying the morals existed before the guy, right?

1370
01:25:25,007 --> 01:25:25,587
So where did the

1371
01:25:25,612 --> 01:25:26,592
Yeah, yeah.

1372
01:25:27,402 --> 01:25:32,772
Well, not, I think we evolved the morals because our group survivability

1373
01:25:32,812 --> 01:25:36,312
benefited from us having that moral, that kind of moral standard.

1374
01:25:36,362 --> 01:25:39,632
And that includes saving the baby that's deformed.

1375
01:25:40,062 --> 01:25:45,692
That, that level of empathy Uh, enables trust in the rest of the group.

1376
01:25:45,712 --> 01:25:47,782
You know that you're not going to be left out.

1377
01:25:47,862 --> 01:25:50,312
So you know that you're not going to get ostracized and that's

1378
01:25:50,362 --> 01:25:52,132
good for the group survival.

1379
01:25:52,352 --> 01:25:57,202
It's not that, you know, evolutionary theory is not just, it's not

1380
01:25:57,202 --> 01:25:59,322
just people killing one another.

1381
01:25:59,332 --> 01:26:01,632
It's, it's a collaboration as well.

1382
01:26:02,497 --> 01:26:06,207
Well, Knut, I think I just showed with the example of Sparta, for

1383
01:26:06,207 --> 01:26:10,867
example, that that was exactly the opposite of what required them to

1384
01:26:10,952 --> 01:26:12,273
That's That's one, that's one example.

1385
01:26:12,273 --> 01:26:14,333
You can also, you can also use counterexamples.

1386
01:26:14,393 --> 01:26:18,263
Christian, you can't say that throughout the entire life of

1387
01:26:18,263 --> 01:26:22,213
Christianity that everyone had the prosperity necessary to not have to

1388
01:26:22,213 --> 01:26:24,593
make a decision like that, right?

1389
01:26:24,763 --> 01:26:26,663
I think scarcity is the real problem there.

1390
01:26:26,933 --> 01:26:30,983
These so called utilitarian problems come in when there is such

1391
01:26:30,983 --> 01:26:33,743
a degree of scarcity that those decisions actually have to be made.

1392
01:26:33,773 --> 01:26:38,828
And, and I would assert that A group of people that doesn't actually make these

1393
01:26:38,828 --> 01:26:41,218
decisions correctly will not survive.

1394
01:26:41,228 --> 01:26:46,108
If, if the tribe decides not to actually make some pragmatic decisions

1395
01:26:46,108 --> 01:26:49,638
about who gets to eat, the whole tribe might not survive the winter.

1396
01:26:49,698 --> 01:26:53,298
And that's terrible, and I don't think that's unique to Christianity.

1397
01:26:55,698 --> 01:27:01,208
But your argument is that it is somehow a more evolutionary fit for survival, right?

1398
01:27:01,352 --> 01:27:06,132
a more important point to me than the notion of God itself, because

1399
01:27:06,132 --> 01:27:10,702
I really don't care what people personally, about personal belief.

1400
01:27:10,902 --> 01:27:14,442
What bothers me is organized religion, and this notion that,

1401
01:27:14,732 --> 01:27:18,282
you know, to me, the Pope is just another version of a central bank.

1402
01:27:18,372 --> 01:27:22,372
It's a guy that says that he is in contact with God, and that he

1403
01:27:22,392 --> 01:27:25,462
sets rules for people, and whatever he says, people get influenced.

1404
01:27:25,612 --> 01:27:26,882
by that and they do whatever.

1405
01:27:27,132 --> 01:27:30,052
And now he's going around waving rainbow flags and stuff.

1406
01:27:30,052 --> 01:27:35,852
So I, I, I think the whole, the, the appeal to authority is the problem,

1407
01:27:36,167 --> 01:27:38,987
that's, uh, believe it or not, that's actually a ver,

1408
01:27:39,047 --> 01:27:41,117
fairly modern, um, conception.

1409
01:27:41,117 --> 01:27:44,657
The infallibility of the Pope was a doctrine that was adopted

1410
01:27:44,657 --> 01:27:47,437
around in, in the 19th century.

1411
01:27:47,437 --> 01:27:51,757
So it's a, it's a, like most of the history of Christianity does

1412
01:27:51,762 --> 01:27:56,847
not have this particularly like omnipotent authoritarian pope.

1413
01:27:56,967 --> 01:28:02,027
So that, that Lord Acton quote at power corrupts absolutely.

1414
01:28:02,642 --> 01:28:06,742
Absolute Power, or Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts, Absolutely.

1415
01:28:07,052 --> 01:28:11,452
He was, he was a Catholic talking about the Pope, about that exact issue.

1416
01:28:11,452 --> 01:28:15,682
So, it's a fairly recent phenomenon, and I, I believe it's, it's sort

1417
01:28:15,682 --> 01:28:20,722
of a result of, I honestly, Marxist influence, but yeah, and that

1418
01:28:20,722 --> 01:28:22,732
Catholic social teaching, but yeah.

1419
01:28:23,232 --> 01:28:24,982
but yeah, yes, we do.

1420
01:28:25,482 --> 01:28:29,482
And I think that that's, to me, the problem becomes then like.

1421
01:28:30,142 --> 01:28:35,372
I respect, because of this, I respect you as a Christian way more than I

1422
01:28:35,772 --> 01:28:41,762
respect your average Pope fan, you know, because there are so many different

1423
01:28:41,842 --> 01:28:46,522
definitions of the word Christianity, as we've explored today, there are

1424
01:28:46,522 --> 01:28:52,067
even different definitions of the The, the different definitions of the word

1425
01:28:52,067 --> 01:28:58,087
atheist as well, and, uh, the like, there, the, this is so nuanced and I

1426
01:28:58,087 --> 01:29:00,157
think it has to do with semantics a lot.

1427
01:29:00,547 --> 01:29:05,107
Uh, but the, the point I, I, I wouldn't want you to think of me as someone that

1428
01:29:05,112 --> 01:29:11,017
hates the notion of God, because that's not representative of what I think at all.

1429
01:29:11,347 --> 01:29:14,047
I, I hate appeals to authority.

1430
01:29:14,047 --> 01:29:17,377
That's like, I think people should think for themselves.

1431
01:29:17,942 --> 01:29:23,842
And, uh, and be able to do so to as large an extent as possible because,

1432
01:29:23,992 --> 01:29:28,572
you know, I'm a, well, freedom maximalist for lack of a better word.

1433
01:29:28,922 --> 01:29:33,312
But Knut, Knut, I'm going to say that you, you appeal to authority too, but

1434
01:29:33,312 --> 01:29:38,452
you appeal to some sort of evolutionary side trick on, on, on the moral laws,

1435
01:29:38,932 --> 01:29:43,922
saying they evolved and I don't know exactly how they evolved or why, but

1436
01:29:44,242 --> 01:29:50,492
they exist because of this, this, uh, you know, evolutionary group

1437
01:29:50,492 --> 01:29:55,297
dynamic or whatever it is, uh, I mean that, that's a form of authority.

1438
01:29:55,297 --> 01:30:01,137
It's, it's asserting something that you can't prove exists, that, that,

1439
01:30:01,257 --> 01:30:03,297
like this moral law came into being,

1440
01:30:03,832 --> 01:30:05,612
No, but neither can you, Jimmy.

1441
01:30:05,702 --> 01:30:06,612
Neither can you.

1442
01:30:06,622 --> 01:30:07,572
You can't prove it

1443
01:30:07,842 --> 01:30:10,602
neither of us can, but that's the point, right?

1444
01:30:10,602 --> 01:30:16,332
Is that if you're going to say I reject all authority ever, then you would

1445
01:30:16,332 --> 01:30:17,782
have to reject your own argument.

1446
01:30:18,113 --> 01:30:23,753
Yeah, I, I guess, uh, I, I, I, I want to minimize, uh, uh, appeals to

1447
01:30:23,753 --> 01:30:27,773
authority just as I want to minimize the size of government or the size of the

1448
01:30:27,773 --> 01:30:30,793
church or whatever, like the, the po.

1449
01:30:30,883 --> 01:30:36,653
But, uh, another point that is important to make is that a belief in evolutionary

1450
01:30:36,653 --> 01:30:39,283
theory has nothing to do with atheism.

1451
01:30:39,863 --> 01:30:43,563
A lot of atheists buy the evolutionary theory, but that's

1452
01:30:43,563 --> 01:30:44,983
not what the word atheist means.

1453
01:30:45,023 --> 01:30:50,433
The atheism just means the rejection of theistic ideas.

1454
01:30:51,508 --> 01:30:53,268
yeah, and I kind of get that.

1455
01:30:53,908 --> 01:30:59,358
I'm just responding to what you asserted before that the moral law

1456
01:30:59,408 --> 01:31:03,978
that you, uh, that you follow more or less, it comes from some group

1457
01:31:03,978 --> 01:31:08,768
dynamic that you can't identify or figure out how it came into being.

1458
01:31:09,093 --> 01:31:12,903
You just assert that it has, and in a sense, that's, that's a form of authority.

1459
01:31:13,098 --> 01:31:15,178
you assert that it came from God.

1460
01:31:15,338 --> 01:31:20,028
So we have, I'm saying, I'm saying, I don't know, and I,

1461
01:31:20,228 --> 01:31:22,378
I, I'm fine with not knowing.

1462
01:31:22,428 --> 01:31:25,728
I cannot prove that it happened this way or that way or what

1463
01:31:25,768 --> 01:31:27,558
kind of evolution happened.

1464
01:31:27,623 --> 01:31:30,063
then why do you follow it if you don't know where it comes from?

1465
01:31:30,073 --> 01:31:31,133
That's, that's the part

1466
01:31:31,408 --> 01:31:32,728
Well, neither do you.

1467
01:31:32,778 --> 01:31:33,958
That's, that's the thing.

1468
01:31:33,968 --> 01:31:36,358
You're, you have a belief, but you can't prove it.

1469
01:31:37,143 --> 01:31:42,173
I believe in God, but, uh, but for you, you're following a moral law where

1470
01:31:42,173 --> 01:31:45,543
you don't know where it came from, you don't know why, why it exists.

1471
01:31:46,043 --> 01:31:50,303
How is it so hard to, to, for you to accept that I believe in a set of

1472
01:31:50,303 --> 01:31:54,883
principles without believing in a God for me, the, what's the difference there?

1473
01:31:55,808 --> 01:31:58,508
Well, well, then why, why, why do you believe in the principles?

1474
01:31:58,508 --> 01:31:59,018
I guess

1475
01:31:59,053 --> 01:32:01,153
Well, when, why to counter it.

1476
01:32:01,213 --> 01:32:02,293
Why do you believe in God?

1477
01:32:02,293 --> 01:32:02,503
Then?

1478
01:32:02,833 --> 01:32:05,253
Like, why, what,

1479
01:32:05,503 --> 01:32:10,068
I, I, I, I've experienced God, you know that, that, I mean, but I,

1480
01:32:10,073 --> 01:32:12,228
I'm, I'm asking more about you.

1481
01:32:12,258 --> 01:32:15,168
Like you, you have these rules that you follow.

1482
01:32:15,493 --> 01:32:18,013
but this is me interviewing you, you know, not the,

1483
01:32:18,948 --> 01:32:21,288
like that, that, that's the part that's confusing to me.

1484
01:32:22,908 --> 01:32:27,158
And in a sense, that's where it sounds like a little NPC ish, honestly,

1485
01:32:27,158 --> 01:32:32,318
it's like, okay, there are these rules, I'm following them, I don't

1486
01:32:32,548 --> 01:32:38,108
really know why, um, like that's where it's a little confusing.

1487
01:32:38,318 --> 01:32:43,808
I'm saying that neither do you, Jimmy, and I'm just fine with not knowing why I

1488
01:32:43,808 --> 01:32:45,998
don't follow them, like, I don't need to

1489
01:32:46,028 --> 01:32:49,828
I don't know why you follow them, because you do follow certain moral rules, right?

1490
01:32:50,388 --> 01:32:54,698
I do, absolutely, I have high moral standards for myself and for my family.

1491
01:32:55,418 --> 01:32:59,528
but you're saying it came out of some evolutionary thing, and you

1492
01:32:59,788 --> 01:33:04,508
No, I just, I just think that these principles of natural law and first

1493
01:33:04,528 --> 01:33:11,443
principles thinking will do good to a lot of people as opposed to doing bad.

1494
01:33:11,453 --> 01:33:16,773
It will make people's lives more comfortable and easier and filled with

1495
01:33:16,773 --> 01:33:19,923
more meaning and better in general.

1496
01:33:20,263 --> 01:33:24,673
So, to me, it's a no brainer to follow these principles.

1497
01:33:25,013 --> 01:33:27,263
And the more I learn, the more I...

1498
01:33:27,268 --> 01:33:32,138
better, but you, like, this gets back to what's good, what's bad,

1499
01:33:32,148 --> 01:33:35,598
like, it's all kind of like, uh,

1500
01:33:35,793 --> 01:33:38,603
But you all have the same, you have the same problem.

1501
01:33:38,603 --> 01:33:39,323
That's my point.

1502
01:33:39,333 --> 01:33:41,223
Like, saying that there's

1503
01:33:41,233 --> 01:33:41,923
think I do.

1504
01:33:41,923 --> 01:33:43,615
I think I know exactly what good is.

1505
01:33:43,723 --> 01:33:47,403
It's, it's whatever's alignment with God, you know, like they're,

1506
01:33:47,403 --> 01:33:52,603
they're very, very much like easier ways to evaluate things for me.

1507
01:33:52,603 --> 01:33:55,683
Whereas for you, they're all kind of relative and subjective.

1508
01:33:55,683 --> 01:33:58,783
So it's very hard for me to understand what you're saying,

1509
01:33:59,283 --> 01:34:00,873
What if you're wrong then, Jimmy?

1510
01:34:00,873 --> 01:34:04,293
And one of these principles that you follow is completely wrong.

1511
01:34:04,513 --> 01:34:07,413
Like, for instance, that you should turn the other cheek or that you

1512
01:34:07,413 --> 01:34:12,463
should treat everyone equally or treat everyone as they would have treated you.

1513
01:34:12,943 --> 01:34:16,013
Uh, I, you know, people want to be treated differently.

1514
01:34:16,903 --> 01:34:20,833
So, so treating someone like you would have treated yourself is not

1515
01:34:20,853 --> 01:34:26,243
necessarily a good moral principle to live by, in my opinion, and also turning

1516
01:34:26,243 --> 01:34:30,563
the other cheek is not always the correct option in a moral sense to me.

1517
01:34:30,583 --> 01:34:35,933
And in fact, that, that, that was very radical from a moral perspective.

1518
01:34:35,933 --> 01:34:38,293
Nobody else said, turn the other cheek.

1519
01:34:38,323 --> 01:34:38,873
It was, yeah.

1520
01:34:39,408 --> 01:34:40,708
Smite your enemies.

1521
01:34:40,728 --> 01:34:42,358
And that, that was the moral.

1522
01:34:42,628 --> 01:34:47,658
And, and from your perspective, I, I suppose that, uh, from sort of like

1523
01:34:47,658 --> 01:34:51,788
an evolutionary perspective, turning the other cheek would make zero sense.

1524
01:34:51,838 --> 01:34:58,398
Yet, that is very much something that is, uh, a part of the

1525
01:34:58,398 --> 01:35:00,278
morality that we have today.

1526
01:35:00,538 --> 01:35:03,768
And I suspect that you follow a lot of it without even realizing it.

1527
01:35:04,078 --> 01:35:05,088
Recognizing it, right?

1528
01:35:05,098 --> 01:35:10,248
Like, you, you, you try to, um, uh, you know, uh, you, you try to

1529
01:35:10,248 --> 01:35:14,898
treat other people well, even if they might treat you very badly,

1530
01:35:14,988 --> 01:35:17,428
uh, or have treated you badly, um,

1531
01:35:17,743 --> 01:35:18,133
yeah.

1532
01:35:18,593 --> 01:35:18,773
I,

1533
01:35:18,828 --> 01:35:22,518
mean, in a sense, it's a, it's, it's, it's a part of our sort of

1534
01:35:22,518 --> 01:35:25,348
like, uh, societal milieu, right?

1535
01:35:25,348 --> 01:35:28,738
Like, the, the, the moral waters that we swim in are more or

1536
01:35:28,738 --> 01:35:30,248
less Christian in many ways.

1537
01:35:30,268 --> 01:35:34,103
I, I'm just, Asking, I guess, as a Christian, if it's not, if you're

1538
01:35:34,103 --> 01:35:38,103
not Christian and you're swimming in Christian moral waters, well,

1539
01:35:38,263 --> 01:35:40,153
how do you, how do you define

1540
01:35:40,563 --> 01:35:45,303
well you call, you call them Christian moral waters, but I think they pre, I,

1541
01:35:45,403 --> 01:35:49,723
I think they preceded Christianity, and that Christianity sort of hijacked them.

1542
01:35:50,393 --> 01:35:52,883
Like, that's historically inaccurate.

1543
01:35:52,893 --> 01:35:53,053
I

1544
01:35:53,258 --> 01:35:54,528
Let me give you some receipts.

1545
01:35:54,528 --> 01:35:55,528
Let me give you some receipts.

1546
01:35:55,748 --> 01:35:56,818
I'm in with some backup.

1547
01:35:56,818 --> 01:36:01,648
This golden rule, the reciprocity maxim, so to say, there is evidence for

1548
01:36:01,648 --> 01:36:03,888
that in ancient Egypt, ancient India,

1549
01:36:04,043 --> 01:36:08,113
there's Confucius said it before him too, but I mean, that's a particular rule, but

1550
01:36:08,383 --> 01:36:13,083
I'm talking about the dignity of human beings, like, uh, you know, like, uh,

1551
01:36:13,823 --> 01:36:18,293
the, the fact that every human being has value or that, uh, like that, that's a

1552
01:36:18,293 --> 01:36:23,863
completely new concept as of Christianity, because every other culture, it was,

1553
01:36:24,153 --> 01:36:25,873
It was fine to go attack your enemies.

1554
01:36:25,873 --> 01:36:27,133
It was fine to go kill them.

1555
01:36:27,153 --> 01:36:32,153
It was fine to go, um, you know, sacrifice a baby or do whatever.

1556
01:36:32,173 --> 01:36:36,923
Like, it was, it was very new and it was radical for that reason.

1557
01:36:36,993 --> 01:36:41,263
And I would submit to you that that, that is something that is very much a part of

1558
01:36:41,263 --> 01:36:42,823
the moral waters that we're swimming in.

1559
01:36:43,163 --> 01:36:47,363
Um, and it is, it was an innovation, uh, in many ways.

1560
01:36:47,758 --> 01:36:52,528
But, uh, and maybe you can argue that it, it, it was like, it evolved at that

1561
01:36:52,528 --> 01:36:56,288
point or something like that, but I, I don't see any evidence that it was.

1562
01:36:56,813 --> 01:37:01,223
Something that, uh, you know, was taken for granted beforehand.

1563
01:37:01,468 --> 01:37:05,508
We need to, we need to end the debate here, I think, and, and move

1564
01:37:05,518 --> 01:37:09,578
on with the pod, because uh, I, I, I mean, as much as, as much as, uh,

1565
01:37:10,248 --> 01:37:12,558
It's, it's, it's fun, but you know, like I get

1566
01:37:12,588 --> 01:37:12,798
Yeah.

1567
01:37:12,798 --> 01:37:13,098
Yeah.

1568
01:37:13,338 --> 01:37:17,328
As much as I love this, Jimmy, I think for the quality for our listeners,

1569
01:37:17,328 --> 01:37:19,248
we need to, uh, move on there.

1570
01:37:19,428 --> 01:37:23,328
And I'd like, I'd like to do a thing with you that I've, I do with a lot of,

1571
01:37:23,478 --> 01:37:29,858
uh, Christian Bitcoiners I meet, so, so I'm gonna tell you seven uh, statements.

1572
01:37:30,513 --> 01:37:37,603
And, uh, you, you tell me whether you agree or don't agree to them, okay?

1573
01:37:39,073 --> 01:37:39,563
Okay.

1574
01:37:39,943 --> 01:37:43,773
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all

1575
01:37:43,793 --> 01:37:45,753
creatures in accordance with reason.

1576
01:37:46,611 --> 01:37:52,291
I mean, depends on what you mean by reason, like, like, like with logical

1577
01:37:52,331 --> 01:37:54,121
consistency or something like that.

1578
01:37:54,121 --> 01:37:54,841
Is that what you mean?

1579
01:37:54,841 --> 01:37:55,981
Or what, what do you mean

1580
01:37:56,006 --> 01:38:00,226
Now, I'm not trying, I'm not putting any value into this because, like,

1581
01:38:00,986 --> 01:38:02,806
it's just a thought experiment here.

1582
01:38:02,856 --> 01:38:06,606
So, like, uh, one should strive to, like, do you agree or do you disagree

1583
01:38:06,606 --> 01:38:08,326
or do you agree to some extent?

1584
01:38:08,776 --> 01:38:13,096
Think of it as one of those, you know, magazine, stupid,

1585
01:38:13,776 --> 01:38:17,706
Well, I like the, the definition kind of matters 'cause like, uh,

1586
01:38:17,706 --> 01:38:21,936
when, when a lot of what the, this is just from my experience when,

1587
01:38:21,936 --> 01:38:26,486
when a lot of people say, or when, when a lot of atheists say by reason.

1588
01:38:26,486 --> 01:38:30,176
It's, uh, you know, like you're subscribing to the

1589
01:38:30,176 --> 01:38:32,096
logic that I've already made.

1590
01:38:32,096 --> 01:38:36,926
And, uh, if you don't agree, then you're not like by re like it's,

1591
01:38:36,926 --> 01:38:38,846
it's the particular reasoning that.

1592
01:38:39,326 --> 01:38:43,696
You have versus, like, I think it's internally, like, if you're talking about

1593
01:38:43,706 --> 01:38:49,096
internal consistency, absolutely, but like, if it's consistency with what, you

1594
01:38:49,096 --> 01:38:53,896
know, you happen to believe or something like, or, uh, you know, to what society

1595
01:38:53,896 --> 01:39:00,106
believes or something like that, then it, that, that that, that, that's why

1596
01:39:00,106 --> 01:39:01,876
I'm a little hesitant on answering this.

1597
01:39:02,556 --> 01:39:06,906
yes, good answer, that's what I would have answered as well, I think, because

1598
01:39:06,906 --> 01:39:11,376
I think in accordance with reason, well, reason according to whom, like that,

1599
01:39:11,676 --> 01:39:13,476
reason is a very dangerous word there.

1600
01:39:13,806 --> 01:39:18,196
Okay, so number two, the struggle for justice is an ongoing and

1601
01:39:18,196 --> 01:39:21,846
necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

1602
01:39:22,761 --> 01:39:26,381
Yes, but once again, I think you need a good definition of justice to make

1603
01:39:26,381 --> 01:39:32,901
that work, uh, because, uh, justice is a very loaded moral term and it's,

1604
01:39:32,931 --> 01:39:36,241
uh, you know, what, what, what is right or wrong and stuff like that.

1605
01:39:36,241 --> 01:39:40,191
And if you, if you take natural law or justice according to

1606
01:39:40,191 --> 01:39:41,361
natural law, I would agree.

1607
01:39:41,771 --> 01:39:46,841
If it's justice according to the laws of, you know, the, of the

1608
01:39:46,841 --> 01:39:48,441
United States of America, I wouldn't

1609
01:39:49,209 --> 01:39:50,459
Okay, three.

1610
01:39:51,089 --> 01:39:56,569
One's body is inviolable, subject to one's own will alone.

1611
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:00,720
disagree.

1612
01:40:02,585 --> 01:40:03,145
Okay?

1613
01:40:04,405 --> 01:40:06,785
So who else's will is it?

1614
01:40:07,695 --> 01:40:10,115
Like, who else gets to decide over your body?

1615
01:40:10,125 --> 01:40:11,990
This is basically property rights, isn't it?

1616
01:40:13,220 --> 01:40:20,070
Uh, well, so, one's, say, say that exactly again.

1617
01:40:20,570 --> 01:40:23,760
Property, in a Rothbardian sense, uh, property rights is just an

1618
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:26,470
extension of that, the notion that you own your own body.

1619
01:40:26,930 --> 01:40:27,940
So, the, you're,

1620
01:40:28,420 --> 01:40:31,530
I, I, I, I, from a practical perspective, I agree.

1621
01:40:31,540 --> 01:40:33,050
From a spiritual perspective, I don't.

1622
01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:35,730
because it's God's body.

1623
01:40:36,650 --> 01:40:37,070
Yeah.

1624
01:40:37,160 --> 01:40:38,170
Okay, oh,

1625
01:40:38,300 --> 01:40:40,200
your, your body is a temple of God.

1626
01:40:40,200 --> 01:40:40,470
Yeah.

1627
01:40:41,740 --> 01:40:45,920
four, uh, The freedoms of others should be respected,

1628
01:40:46,170 --> 01:40:48,070
including the freedom to offend.

1629
01:40:48,450 --> 01:40:51,540
To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of

1630
01:40:51,540 --> 01:40:53,640
another is to forego one's own.

1631
01:40:56,010 --> 01:40:57,280
To willfully...

1632
01:40:59,965 --> 01:41:00,965
What was the word again?

1633
01:41:00,985 --> 01:41:01,975
To willfully what?

1634
01:41:02,240 --> 01:41:03,080
I'll do it again.

1635
01:41:03,140 --> 01:41:06,050
The freedoms of others should be respected, including

1636
01:41:06,050 --> 01:41:07,350
the freedom to offend.

1637
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:11,100
To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of

1638
01:41:11,100 --> 01:41:13,330
another is to forego one's own.

1639
01:41:14,094 --> 01:41:17,954
Yeah, this again has that word unjust in there.

1640
01:41:18,174 --> 01:41:20,284
And that's the word I was tripping over.

1641
01:41:20,754 --> 01:41:24,324
If it's in alignment with natural law, if that's the justice that you're

1642
01:41:24,324 --> 01:41:25,664
talking about, yeah, absolutely.

1643
01:41:25,664 --> 01:41:28,104
If it's, if it's some state...

1644
01:41:28,559 --> 01:41:33,379
Law, like if it's another definition of justice, then no, like, if it's like,

1645
01:41:33,419 --> 01:41:36,999
you know, based on the laws of the United States or something like that, then

1646
01:41:37,269 --> 01:41:41,899
Now, I think, I think, I haven't done my research here, but I think this is

1647
01:41:42,229 --> 01:41:44,299
about natural law to a large extent.

1648
01:41:44,339 --> 01:41:46,019
I think that's what it means by justice.

1649
01:41:47,099 --> 01:41:47,359
yeah.

1650
01:41:47,359 --> 01:41:52,189
And this, like, because there are like many philosophies of justice.

1651
01:41:52,189 --> 01:41:56,649
It's, uh, you know, whatever the state says, which is a very sort of like,

1652
01:41:57,819 --> 01:42:04,429
statist, positivist kind of, um, uh, you know, assertion, uh, and, you know,

1653
01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:06,109
that that's how they define justice.

1654
01:42:06,149 --> 01:42:06,429
So.

1655
01:42:06,859 --> 01:42:10,349
You have to be kind of careful there, but yeah, under natural

1656
01:42:10,349 --> 01:42:11,139
law, I think that would

1657
01:42:11,219 --> 01:42:14,839
So you agree with the statement, but maybe not with the wording, because

1658
01:42:14,839 --> 01:42:16,759
you find the word unjustly to be

1659
01:42:16,979 --> 01:42:21,949
you, it's always tricky with these, for these like philosophical things, because

1660
01:42:21,959 --> 01:42:27,779
it, like, it matters a whole lot what each word means, and You know, like,

1661
01:42:27,989 --> 01:42:33,569
from a particular perspective, it's like, okay, that, like, I would definitely

1662
01:42:33,569 --> 01:42:38,139
agree in some cases, in others it, like, doesn't make any sense to me because

1663
01:42:38,139 --> 01:42:42,199
it's, uh, you know, somebody alters the definition so you agree with it, you know.

1664
01:42:42,929 --> 01:42:44,769
You just kind of have to be careful there, yeah.

1665
01:42:45,569 --> 01:42:47,799
Yeah, I agree with that, definitely.

1666
01:42:48,119 --> 01:42:48,609
Uh...

1667
01:42:49,519 --> 01:42:54,929
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world.

1668
01:42:55,339 --> 01:43:01,439
One should take care to never distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

1669
01:43:03,039 --> 01:43:08,779
Uh, the second part I agree with, I don't think that covers all belief, so I

1670
01:43:08,789 --> 01:43:10,449
don't think I agree with the first part.

1671
01:43:11,149 --> 01:43:13,289
Okay, people are fallible.

1672
01:43:13,479 --> 01:43:18,219
If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve

1673
01:43:18,249 --> 01:43:20,109
any harm that might have been caused.

1674
01:43:21,270 --> 01:43:22,880
I believe that as a Christian, yeah.

1675
01:43:23,480 --> 01:43:28,710
Like, I think it would be harder for other people to justify that, but yeah, sure.

1676
01:43:29,519 --> 01:43:32,029
Okay, and the last, uh, the last...

1677
01:43:32,524 --> 01:43:36,364
The thing here is every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire

1678
01:43:36,364 --> 01:43:37,954
nobility in action and thought.

1679
01:43:38,284 --> 01:43:41,634
The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail

1680
01:43:41,634 --> 01:43:43,344
over the written or spoken word.

1681
01:43:44,479 --> 01:43:47,689
Yeah, though there are too many words that are too ambiguous

1682
01:43:47,689 --> 01:43:49,389
there for me to comment, but

1683
01:43:49,509 --> 01:43:55,079
now come, okay, this is, this is just a silly experiment because I'd like

1684
01:43:55,079 --> 01:43:56,719
you, for you to guess what this was.

1685
01:43:56,929 --> 01:43:58,019
What was these

1686
01:43:58,119 --> 01:43:59,684
don't know what was it.

1687
01:44:00,814 --> 01:44:04,424
And maybe like some humanist tract or something like that, I'm guessing

1688
01:44:04,424 --> 01:44:05,674
something from the alignment.

1689
01:44:05,714 --> 01:44:06,154
I don't know.

1690
01:44:07,029 --> 01:44:10,299
The Seven Tenets of Satanism by Anton LaVey.

1691
01:44:13,724 --> 01:44:16,364
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's, uh, yeah.

1692
01:44:16,624 --> 01:44:17,494
I, I don't know.

1693
01:44:17,494 --> 01:44:21,064
I don't even, I don't even know if I'm trying to make a point here or anything.

1694
01:44:21,064 --> 01:44:27,484
I just, if there is a point that it's, that I think, uh, I, I agree

1695
01:44:27,484 --> 01:44:31,234
with your words are important because with two fluffy words, you

1696
01:44:31,234 --> 01:44:34,644
could sort of agree with everything.

1697
01:44:34,649 --> 01:44:38,604
If, if, uh, if that's the case, if the words are fluffy enough and, and,

1698
01:44:38,604 --> 01:44:44,064
uh, You could, you, I, I say you could probably map Bitcoin onto these seven

1699
01:44:44,074 --> 01:44:48,834
tenets pretty easily and say that they're sort of in line with that if you just,

1700
01:44:48,954 --> 01:44:54,781
you know, interpret the words in a way that it's, that suits that purpose.

1701
01:44:55,111 --> 01:44:56,581
Uh, so, uh, yeah.

1702
01:44:57,321 --> 01:45:03,391
Well, I mean, the thing is, like, words are, in many ways, in those kinds

1703
01:45:03,391 --> 01:45:05,551
of things, often very meaningless.

1704
01:45:05,551 --> 01:45:11,816
I, I think, um, I was watching like a Scalia congressional thing, or he was

1705
01:45:11,816 --> 01:45:15,626
like talking to some law students a long time ago, and he was saying, have

1706
01:45:15,626 --> 01:45:19,606
you read the Bill of Rights for like some of these communist countries?

1707
01:45:20,606 --> 01:45:25,046
And, uh, and he was like, you read them, they're better than

1708
01:45:25,046 --> 01:45:26,406
our Bill of Rights, right?

1709
01:45:26,416 --> 01:45:31,006
Like, it guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of this and freedom of that.

1710
01:45:31,236 --> 01:45:35,946
It's better, like, for a lot of these, like, authoritarian communist countries.

1711
01:45:36,776 --> 01:45:37,716
So what's the difference?

1712
01:45:38,266 --> 01:45:40,996
Why is it that we have a better system than they do?

1713
01:45:41,026 --> 01:45:42,816
Why do they have so much oppression?

1714
01:45:43,366 --> 01:45:46,236
Because the words mean something.

1715
01:45:46,506 --> 01:45:50,626
The more the words actually mean something, the more you're likely to

1716
01:45:50,626 --> 01:45:55,146
be aligned with a prosperous society.

1717
01:45:55,146 --> 01:45:58,136
So, in a sense, like, I don't...

1718
01:45:58,451 --> 01:46:02,001
put much stock in something like the seven tenets of Satanism

1719
01:46:02,001 --> 01:46:04,261
because we know what they do, right?

1720
01:46:04,261 --> 01:46:09,941
Like their actions in many ways belie whatever it is that they say they do.

1721
01:46:10,021 --> 01:46:16,151
In fact, like, you can go look at, like, the, um, a lot of the tenets of, like,

1722
01:46:16,161 --> 01:46:18,201
some very violent organizations and stuff.

1723
01:46:18,211 --> 01:46:22,901
I'm sure you could go to, like, Some criminal mafia organization.

1724
01:46:23,251 --> 01:46:26,561
But that, that, that's, that's sort of like a, uh, an

1725
01:46:26,561 --> 01:46:28,311
expression of fiat to me, right?

1726
01:46:28,641 --> 01:46:32,411
Because in a fiat world, the words don't mean anything.

1727
01:46:32,421 --> 01:46:35,691
It's, it's, it's just sort of like reality by decree.

1728
01:46:36,181 --> 01:46:39,931
And that, that's where I think you get into a lot of trouble.

1729
01:46:39,931 --> 01:46:45,666
And this is why I say that fiat is an ATS money because It's not in alignment

1730
01:46:45,676 --> 01:46:50,796
with reality, whereas, you know, uh, Bitcoin is in alignment with reality,

1731
01:46:50,796 --> 01:46:55,106
with natural law, and that, that's what makes it so effective, and that, that's

1732
01:46:55,106 --> 01:47:01,896
what makes it, uh, so good for commerce and for, uh, storing value and all of

1733
01:47:01,896 --> 01:47:06,176
these things, because it's in alignment with reality instead of suspending

1734
01:47:06,176 --> 01:47:10,871
reality, and what fiat lets you do, as I point out in this book, is that it lets

1735
01:47:10,871 --> 01:47:12,541
you suspend reality for a long time.

1736
01:47:12,621 --> 01:47:17,531
And under zero interest rates, yeah, you can, you can, all

1737
01:47:17,531 --> 01:47:18,901
kinds of things can survive.

1738
01:47:19,441 --> 01:47:25,181
It's, it's only when reality reasserts itself, uh, that we find out that, uh,

1739
01:47:25,181 --> 01:47:26,791
you know, all of this was for naught.

1740
01:47:27,271 --> 01:47:30,921
Um, and we're kind of seeing that now even as the interest rates rise, because

1741
01:47:30,921 --> 01:47:32,631
reality is kind of rushing back in.

1742
01:47:33,001 --> 01:47:35,961
Like all these companies that were on zero interest rates, like,

1743
01:47:36,001 --> 01:47:37,131
they're not going to survive.

1744
01:47:37,221 --> 01:47:41,461
And there was a lot of subsidization of a lot of foolish stuff.

1745
01:47:41,941 --> 01:47:45,221
Uh, from, from this suspension of reality or wishing that

1746
01:47:45,221 --> 01:47:46,381
reality could be different.

1747
01:47:46,421 --> 01:47:51,201
Um, and that, that's where I think Bitcoin is very strong is that

1748
01:47:51,201 --> 01:47:52,651
it's an alignment with reality.

1749
01:47:52,651 --> 01:47:54,241
There's no suspension of reality.

1750
01:47:55,041 --> 01:47:59,871
And we can, we can go back to natural law market dynamics, uh, which I think

1751
01:47:59,881 --> 01:48:05,501
ultimately build up civilization in a really awesome way, um, that we've

1752
01:48:05,501 --> 01:48:07,701
been missing for the last 50 years.

1753
01:48:08,647 --> 01:48:09,157
to that.

1754
01:48:09,247 --> 01:48:13,957
And, uh, uh, I, I mean the, I look, I think this is the part where I say,

1755
01:48:14,167 --> 01:48:20,227
what do you think about the Bitcoin as, uh, atheist money or Christian

1756
01:48:20,227 --> 01:48:21,967
money and fiat atheist money?

1757
01:48:22,237 --> 01:48:26,227
Comment in the comment section below, and don't forget to like, subscribe.

1758
01:48:26,227 --> 01:48:28,717
Click the bell for notifications and brush your teeth.

1759
01:48:32,022 --> 01:48:32,412
perfect.

1760
01:48:32,522 --> 01:48:36,682
And, uh, the both of you are, we're ending this conversation on a good note, right?

1761
01:48:36,692 --> 01:48:38,432
Everyone's still friends, right?

1762
01:48:38,577 --> 01:48:39,207
Of course,

1763
01:48:39,737 --> 01:48:40,637
Absolutely.

1764
01:48:40,637 --> 01:48:42,947
I absolutely love this, Jimmy.

1765
01:48:43,307 --> 01:48:47,517
yeah, I don't get offended very easily, just so you know, so yeah.

1766
01:48:47,517 --> 01:48:48,047
A lot of

1767
01:48:49,487 --> 01:48:52,137
And we're very much alike like that, I think.

1768
01:48:52,717 --> 01:48:55,337
So, yeah, I love these debates.

1769
01:48:55,427 --> 01:48:56,597
bitcoiners are.

1770
01:48:57,137 --> 01:49:01,897
I don't think you can survive in the public realm without like some

1771
01:49:01,957 --> 01:49:03,897
serious criticism coming your way.

1772
01:49:04,107 --> 01:49:04,837
So yeah.

1773
01:49:04,967 --> 01:49:09,547
you need, you need a panther skin, sort of.

1774
01:49:09,727 --> 01:49:10,217
what you call it?

1775
01:49:10,227 --> 01:49:13,017
We call it like elephant hide or something like that.

1776
01:49:13,027 --> 01:49:13,277
Yeah.

1777
01:49:13,407 --> 01:49:14,007
Yeah, yeah.

1778
01:49:15,807 --> 01:49:19,507
Grasping for words there, but I hope to see you in real life

1779
01:49:19,877 --> 01:49:21,577
soon, Jimmy, so that we can...

1780
01:49:21,597 --> 01:49:23,897
Are you going to be at Pacific or Amsterdam?

1781
01:49:24,687 --> 01:49:26,847
Amsterdam, I'll be in Amsterdam, so I'll see you there.

1782
01:49:26,937 --> 01:49:27,397
Uh,

1783
01:49:27,657 --> 01:49:28,487
so I'll see you there.

1784
01:49:28,517 --> 01:49:30,727
Um, I'm going to Lugano as well, but yeah.

1785
01:49:30,907 --> 01:49:33,997
yeah, yeah, I'm going to Lugano as well, so I'll see you in Amsterdam

1786
01:49:34,007 --> 01:49:37,547
and Lugano, and there might be some stuff for us there to do.

1787
01:49:37,547 --> 01:49:39,277
I'm not going to say more than that.

1788
01:49:39,352 --> 01:49:40,222
But, uh, Uhhuh,

1789
01:49:40,497 --> 01:49:40,967
Okay.

1790
01:49:40,967 --> 01:49:45,097
Well, I'll, I'll, I'll get you a book when, uh, when I'm in Amsterdam for sure.

1791
01:49:45,097 --> 01:49:45,377
So.

1792
01:49:45,612 --> 01:49:45,802
Yeah,

1793
01:49:45,952 --> 01:49:46,642
fantastic.

1794
01:49:46,672 --> 01:49:49,162
And I'll, I'll, uh, bring Axiology book for you.

1795
01:49:49,872 --> 01:49:50,762
okay, sounds good.

1796
01:49:51,322 --> 01:49:52,732
yeah, I wrote a book of ology.

1797
01:49:53,002 --> 01:49:54,232
Maybe, maybe you don't know.

1798
01:49:54,237 --> 01:49:58,192
But I, I wrote a little short introductory book on ology, and

1799
01:49:58,362 --> 01:50:03,732
like you had one last year at Baltic Honey Badger, and I think I might

1800
01:50:03,732 --> 01:50:06,972
have one, some, actually, give me a, give me a sec, I might have it.

1801
01:50:07,622 --> 01:50:08,032
Let me just

1802
01:50:08,671 --> 01:50:10,531
I think that's the everything Divided book.

1803
01:50:10,861 --> 01:50:14,621
Uh, if it was from last year, because I wrote this last winter.

1804
01:50:14,741 --> 01:50:16,541
it's this one, yeah, there you go.

1805
01:50:16,681 --> 01:50:19,571
I have this one from the Baltic Honey Badger last year, and

1806
01:50:20,046 --> 01:50:20,746
Ah, nice.

1807
01:50:21,851 --> 01:50:26,251
oh, there you go, yeah, it was signed, yeah, there you go.

1808
01:50:26,281 --> 01:50:29,391
All right, but yeah, praxeology is the, is the new one, huh?

1809
01:50:30,246 --> 01:50:31,426
Yeah, and it's very short.

1810
01:50:32,356 --> 01:50:35,956
And it's me trying to condense Mises into 130 pages.

1811
01:50:36,486 --> 01:50:39,026
And I know that might make you giggle.

1812
01:50:40,391 --> 01:50:40,661
Well,

1813
01:50:40,786 --> 01:50:42,146
I did my best.

1814
01:50:42,791 --> 01:50:45,801
maybe I can go read it and have you on my podcast or something.

1815
01:50:46,816 --> 01:50:48,456
I'd love to come on and talk about it.

1816
01:50:48,656 --> 01:50:49,196
No audiobooks?

1817
01:50:49,581 --> 01:50:49,831
Yeah.

1818
01:50:49,831 --> 01:50:53,161
Um, I mean, send me a PDF or something and I'll, I'll try to read it.

1819
01:50:53,171 --> 01:50:56,541
Um, I don't know if I can do it before I get to Amsterdam.

1820
01:50:56,541 --> 01:50:59,791
So maybe, maybe I should just wait, but, uh, but I, I read

1821
01:50:59,791 --> 01:51:01,111
everything on the Kindle anyway.

1822
01:51:01,151 --> 01:51:04,066
So, um, Yeah, let's, uh, let's figure something out.

1823
01:51:07,046 --> 01:51:14,876
Um, I, like, I, I need to be like, because I take a lot of notes and stuff like that,

1824
01:51:14,881 --> 01:51:17,606
I, I need to be, I can't do it on audio.

1825
01:51:17,666 --> 01:51:25,456
Like, like the, like the, the reason I read books is, is to get ideas and I

1826
01:51:25,456 --> 01:51:28,156
need to be like, interacting with it.

1827
01:51:28,161 --> 01:51:31,086
So, Yeah, I don't really do audio.

1828
01:51:31,276 --> 01:51:31,636
Yeah.

1829
01:51:32,301 --> 01:51:34,361
Jimmy, please show your stuff one last time.

1830
01:51:34,726 --> 01:51:36,116
Yes, where can we find you?

1831
01:51:37,116 --> 01:51:39,956
Uh, at Jimmy Song on Twitter.

1832
01:51:39,976 --> 01:51:41,716
Um, I have a newsletter, jimmysong.

1833
01:51:41,716 --> 01:51:43,016
substack.

1834
01:51:43,046 --> 01:51:44,706
com, uh, Bitcoin Tech Talk.

1835
01:51:45,106 --> 01:51:51,916
Um, see, I, I have a link tree, I think, in my Twitter bio, or ex bio, I guess now.

1836
01:51:51,946 --> 01:51:53,956
Uh, so go check that out.

1837
01:51:54,486 --> 01:51:57,016
You can go find the book on fiatruinseverything.

1838
01:51:57,036 --> 01:51:59,526
com and you can order from Amazon.

1839
01:51:59,526 --> 01:52:03,426
You can order from Bitcoin Magazine, or you can get a signed copy from

1840
01:52:03,426 --> 01:52:04,846
me if you're in North America.

1841
01:52:04,856 --> 01:52:07,696
So yeah, please, uh, please order.

1842
01:52:07,696 --> 01:52:08,616
You can pay in Bitcoin.

1843
01:52:08,626 --> 01:52:09,716
You can pay in dollars, whatever.

1844
01:52:09,746 --> 01:52:11,226
So it's all, all available.

1845
01:52:12,596 --> 01:52:13,396
Excellent.

1846
01:52:13,666 --> 01:52:15,836
Jimmy, thank you so much for doing this.

1847
01:52:15,866 --> 01:52:17,356
We appreciate you a lot.

1848
01:52:17,426 --> 01:52:21,886
You're an absolute OG in the space and it's a privilege to have you on.

1849
01:52:22,366 --> 01:52:25,266
And send my regards to your beautiful family and I wish

1850
01:52:25,266 --> 01:52:26,546
you all the best in the future.

1851
01:52:27,326 --> 01:52:27,846
All right.

1852
01:52:27,846 --> 01:52:30,056
Well, I look forward to seeing you in Amsterdam.

1853
01:52:30,086 --> 01:52:32,716
Let's, uh, let's have some fun there too.

1854
01:52:33,426 --> 01:52:33,676
Yep.

1855
01:52:34,496 --> 01:52:36,026
Let's go LFG.

1856
01:52:36,951 --> 01:52:38,481
This has been the Freedom Footprint Show.

1857
01:52:38,591 --> 01:52:39,501
Thanks for listening.

1858
01:52:40,015 --> 01:52:40,275
All right.

1859
01:52:40,285 --> 01:52:42,175
You're going to need some editing on that one, huh?

1860
01:52:42,559 --> 01:52:44,579
So, what did you think of that?

1861
01:52:45,089 --> 01:52:47,059
It was quite the debate between Jimmy and Knut.

1862
01:52:47,579 --> 01:52:49,559
We may have to continue that one in the future.

1863
01:52:50,319 --> 01:52:51,319
What was your favorite moment?

1864
01:52:51,329 --> 01:52:52,009
Let us know.

1865
01:52:52,429 --> 01:52:55,379
You can send us a boostergram on Fountain, leave us a comment on YouTube,

1866
01:52:55,389 --> 01:52:57,259
or get in touch on Nostr or Twitter.

1867
01:52:57,879 --> 01:52:59,979
If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode

1868
01:52:59,979 --> 01:53:01,109
and subscribe to the channel.

1869
01:53:01,669 --> 01:53:05,369
Our show's sponsors are Amber App, Wasabi Wallet, Orange Pill

1870
01:53:05,369 --> 01:53:07,309
App, The Bitcoin Way, and Geyser.

1871
01:53:07,649 --> 01:53:08,849
Check them out in the description.

1872
01:53:09,679 --> 01:53:10,549
That's all for now.

1873
01:53:10,879 --> 01:53:13,489
See you next time, and thanks for listening.