Creating Meaningful Art with FractalEncrypt - Bitcoin Infinity Show #121

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mr.

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Fractal Encrypt, welcome back my friend.

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Thank you for having me.

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Thank you for being here, Fractal, you absolute legend, you.

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Yeah.

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I appreciate you

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I'm gonna start by telling a story.

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So three days ago, I got a message at 7.

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20 in the morning.

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Saying, Hey, you guys, you guys have a power drill.

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I need to steal the TV from my hotel

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Where'd you get that message

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That message

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? Yeah.

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From some anonymous artist of some kind.

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And, uh, uh, yeah, I, I reply like half hour later because I'm, I, I'm not

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seeing the message until I wake up, like.

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Closer to eight.

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And I'm like, sorry dude, we don't have a power drill right now.

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Usually don't bring power drills to the conferences.

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And I get a reply back, no, no, dude, it's just cool.

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I went off to the venue and brought my power drill and installed the TV.

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Can you tell us a little bit about that?

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Sure, Sure.

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yeah, yeah, I can, uh, get into that.

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It's, it's part of my philosophy of not letting obstacles get

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in the way of your mission.

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So if you're on mission, you just can't let little things stop you.

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So.

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You know, certain things have to be done and things come into your way.

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And I think obstacles are one of those things in life that they just

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see if you're really serious about it, you know, they just come up to

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see, you know, if you're not serious about it, the obstacle comes up, you

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go away and you don't actually ever achieve what you were trying to get.

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But if you're serious

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about it, you try to move the obstacle out of the way.

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If you're successful at it, then you actually reach your goal.

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So in this case, I.

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I had taken some videos of my artwork and I thought it was important to show the

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videos next to the artwork because I had basically put a cover over the artwork

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so people couldn't touch it and go play around with it because it's mirrors and

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it easily gets fingerprints so I just wanted to protect it as best I could

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But I also wanted people to see that it was functional and it actually worked.

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And part of that working is motion.

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And the only way to show that would have been to do it with a video.

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So I had asked the conference organizers, you know, hey, can I get a TV?

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And you know, it was a little late in the game, you know, I probably could

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have asked earlier and It's been busy, so I'm not sure if I really did or not,

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so I'm just gonna say I did never ask for one previously, so I asked for one

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late in the game, and they were very kind, and they tried, and they said,

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okay, we're gonna, we're gonna try, we'll get you one by tomorrow, and

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the event wasn't really starting until tomorrow, so that was gonna be fine.

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Um, late at night, I sent a message to the, you know, uh, organizers saying,

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Hey, did you, were you able to get the TV?

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I didn't hear back.

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Uh, so then in the morning, we're, it's probably 6.

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37, I was first thing, like, ready to get to work.

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So, hey, you know, sending them a message.

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What's going on?

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Uh, do we have a TV by chance?

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And he sent me a message back that, hey, I'm sorry, I forgot to ask

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yesterday and now it's too late.

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Period.

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You know, he didn't say period, but there was a period there in the

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sentence and it felt very fine on him.

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Like, I need a TV.

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You know, this, this is not an acceptable answer.

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So, um, I need to just figure it out myself.

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So I just sent him a message.

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I said, okay, no worries.

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I'm just going to do this myself.

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Yeah, and, uh, yeah, the TV is back in place in the hotel

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room now, everything went fine.

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So, so you didn't really steal the TV, you borrowed it, of course.

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Well, you just skipped right ahead, didn't you?

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my

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yeah.

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So, anyways, he tells me I can't have a TV.

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I'm like, my first thought is that, you know, I'm going to go find a local store.

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I'll go purchase one and then I'll, I'll, you know, buy a TV and a stand.

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To display it, but, uh, part of me was thinking, you know, if I get a

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stand, I'm going to have these cables that are running around and that's

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just not going to look nice in an art gallery on the, on the white walls.

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And for it to look nice is actually more important for me than to have the video.

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So it has to kind of have all these, these things in place first.

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So it just didn't seem possible to go to a store and actually

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manifest all this at the same time.

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So I just happened to look on the wall, uh, in front of me.

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And there was the answer staring me in the face.

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you know, so I said, you know what, like,

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what the heck, let me see how this works.

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So I just looked underneath and saw how, know, if I could actually

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pull the TV off and you couldn't, you know, there was actually like,

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it was secured in with two screws.

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Two screws are easy to remove if you have a screwdriver.

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So realistically, I knew that I was not far away from having a TV at this point.

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So you guys had all this equipment.

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So I figured, hey, you know, if anybody's going to have like,

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you know, a screwdriver or a drill, it's probably these guys.

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And so I message you and, and, yeah, I didn't hear back for half an

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hour, so probably like 10 minutes.

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I was already at the venue getting the thing and already back here by the, by

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the time you were messaging me and Yeah.

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I had a drill.

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I popped that, popped those two screws out, and as soon as I

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had the two screws out, I saw another answer to another problem.

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It had like the wall mount.

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Super clean.

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So I was able to just pull the wall mount off too.

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And you know, then when I got to the gallery, I just, you know,

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installed everything and went onto the wall just beautifully.

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Exactly.

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It fit like perfectly, like I almost had planned it.

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And, um, yeah.

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And then just at the end of the event, I, I took all the art off the wall.

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I took the TV off the wall.

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I brought it back here.

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And, uh, well, I guess, yeah, the first thing is how did

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I get it out of the hotel?

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So, you know, I was a little concerned about that.

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Like, Hey, are they going to notice me just like walking out with the TV?

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Cause I didn't really have a bag that big to put it in.

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So.

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I just figured I'd chance it, and I just, you know, went down the elevator,

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I brought the TV with me, and I was lucky that the lobby just happened to

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be full at that moment of people, so nobody saw me, nobody paid attention,

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I just scooted on out, and, uh, pretty much the same thing when I came back

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too, it was like, busy lobby, so I used that same camouflage to, uh, Scooch back

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up to my room, but I had a big problem when I got it back because these doors

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lock if you, you know, if you don't have the key, as soon as you close it, they

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lock and there's a weird function where you have to kind of put the key into the

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door to make the lights work in the room.

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So I opened the door, I put the key in the thing and I had actually

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taken one of their bellhop carts up because it was a TV and I had a whole

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bunch of other bullshit from that.

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I had the sculptures with me and everything.

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So I had taken one of their bellhop carts into the Hallway.

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And I brought everything into the room except for the TV and I was like

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about I went back out to go get it.

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Some other guy just happened to walk in between me and the and the door and

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the bellhop cart at the right moment.

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And I lost it and the door closed on me.

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And I had a bellhop cart with a very incriminating TV sitting on it

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that was not on the wall in my room.

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So I knew if I had to ask them to You like, help me get into the

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room, they might want to come up.

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I didn't have my ID on me, so I wasn't sure if they were gonna even believe me

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that that was my room without going to it.

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So, I knew I was like about to get busted at this point and

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I was like, fuck, you know?

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I don't know if I want to say that but that's what I was like.

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And um, I was like, okay, you know what, maybe I could just, people sometimes

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they just don't look around, they don't pay attention to a lot of details.

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So, I actually just put it in a corner in a nondescript place and I figured, okay,

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I'll go downstairs and see what happens and Yeah, they just gave me a new key.

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I went back up and it was no thing.

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But it was a stressful moment when the guy like, and he knew it, he felt so bad when

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he saw what happened because he's like, you want me to stay here and guard the TV?

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I was like, nah man, I'm gonna figure it out.

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It's a great story, but the thing looked fantastic, especially

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with the little video above it.

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And the thing is, yeah, you say moving parts, and this is because this

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particular piece is actually a computer.

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Can you tell us about it, please?

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I'd love to.

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I'd love to.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Uh, it was a project that I did, uh, using a cryptographic protocol called Codex 32.

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And this is developed by some of the guys at Blockstream, Andrew Sra, and

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a, and a NIM called Pearl Wart Snead.

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And, uh, these two have developed a method that you can use to create Bitcoin keys

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offline without using any computers.

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Not trusting any software, hardware, um, or anything like that.

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And I love low technology things.

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And I actually don't trust anything at all in life, as you probably know very well.

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So I, I like something like this where you can actually

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do all the processes yourself.

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Um, any math that you have to do, you do, do, do by hand on pen and paper.

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And It's very simple to see whether you've done it correctly or not.

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If you've done it correctly, then you've actually created some Bitcoin keys.

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If you've not, then you know that it's very obvious that you've done it wrong.

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I think I've got a little off track, so let me kind of back up a little first.

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The Codex32 protocol allows you to create Bitcoin keys without trusting computers.

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It also allows you to split the keys into separate parts.

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So if you wanted to make a two of three setup where you need two keys,

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uh, two of three keys to recombine your secret key, you can do that.

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And then there's also a method, of course, to take those split

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shares and recombine them.

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So what I made was a set of three computers.

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The first one does the key creation, the second one does the key splitting,

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and the third one does the key recovery, so, um, To me, I think

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it's a very interesting protocol.

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If you create keys with a software wallet, for example, uh, It takes you two seconds.

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You know, it's, it's no problem at all.

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If you're super duper cypherpunk and you, you're going to roll

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dice to create your seeds.

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The fact is you can't actually roll dice to create the entire seed.

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You can roll dice and create 11 words or 23 words.

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You can't create the 12th word or the 24th word by dice rolls because it's something

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called a checksum and it verifies that you actually have a valid seed.

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So you can't just roll that one.

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It has to actually be computationally correct in order

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to, to be a valid Bitcoin seed.

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So, even the super cypherpunks end up having to trust a computer at the end,

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and there's just so many reasons not to trust computers, you know, there's

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something that says even a, even a computer that's working correctly could be

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working against the interests of the user.

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So, it's always best to limit those type of variables if you can, I think, so.

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Uh,

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you want to be self sovereign, you go and buy an art piece for, like,

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what is it, you auction it out?

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yes.

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I, yeah, I auctioned it out and, um, we had a whole art gallery

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there and, and, um, I did an auction of it and I auctioned.

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So it was like all three pieces as a set.

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And it was, uh, very successful.

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I think it went for 0.

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76 Bitcoin, which is really amazing.

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And, um, yeah, that person gets the whole set.

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And to me, I think it's, you know, it's just a really cool technology to

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be able to, you know, Say that you're able to go through the whole process

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yourself, everything is done yourself, and if you didn't want to pay 0.

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76 Bitcoin to, you know, for a very fancy version, you can actually go online, and

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there's a website called secretcodex32.

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com, and you can just go ahead and print and cut your own paper computers

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that will do the same process.

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And there's even a, uh, a bit 39, a paper computer that I saw recently

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that the guy's been working on.

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Unfortunately, it has that last step where you do need a computer too.

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And so that's why I didn't work with that.

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Bit 39 is much more popular, um, obviously, but the people that,

233
00:10:56,607 --> 00:11:02,472
uh, made the, the codex 32 spec have some, Some very interesting

234
00:11:02,472 --> 00:11:04,472
words in their book about BIP39.

235
00:11:04,482 --> 00:11:08,882
So they've kind of do shots fired stuff and say that, you know, the checksum

236
00:11:08,942 --> 00:11:12,672
of a BIP39 password is only one word long, and it's going to fail to detect.

237
00:11:12,912 --> 00:11:15,182
Sometimes it will fail to detect even one error.

238
00:11:15,402 --> 00:11:18,912
And it has the quality of making your, um, making your Bitcoin

239
00:11:19,472 --> 00:11:21,102
seed a non standard length.

240
00:11:21,442 --> 00:11:23,982
And, um, you know, they have a couple of other things that they say that

241
00:11:23,982 --> 00:11:25,692
they just don't like about BIP39.

242
00:11:25,692 --> 00:11:30,032
And it's very interesting to see, like, The, these, uh, things that I had kind

243
00:11:30,032 --> 00:11:32,392
of never considered about Bit39 before.

244
00:11:32,392 --> 00:11:36,522
So even, even though I use it myself, Bit39, I just, I just think it's

245
00:11:36,522 --> 00:11:41,632
interesting to see people that look at things so deeply and it kind of

246
00:11:41,692 --> 00:11:43,312
changes your perspective on it too.

247
00:11:43,312 --> 00:11:45,982
So I always try to find something that's an interesting project

248
00:11:45,992 --> 00:11:47,242
that I can learn and grow from.

249
00:11:47,242 --> 00:11:50,722
And, and the Codex 32 is so difficult for me to understand at first.

250
00:11:50,722 --> 00:11:53,992
I just loved it, you know, cause it was like, I could tell it was a very

251
00:11:53,992 --> 00:11:56,832
interesting project and it was something you kind of had to wrap your mind around.

252
00:11:56,862 --> 00:11:57,282
And.

253
00:11:57,642 --> 00:12:02,202
Um, I had to actually go through the process of using it before I

254
00:12:02,202 --> 00:12:04,632
could really get my mind around it.

255
00:12:04,632 --> 00:12:09,302
So I think, um, and I will give you some credit here, as I've done before,

256
00:12:09,302 --> 00:12:13,342
is that we happened to be sitting on a balcony and watching the sunrise in

257
00:12:13,342 --> 00:12:17,747
Madeira, and you had just made a comment to me that, Uh, a lot of my work was

258
00:12:17,747 --> 00:12:21,117
self similar in the fact that it's kind of circles that do, you know, Bitcoin

259
00:12:21,117 --> 00:12:25,457
circles, um, and that I was just making a lot of circles and I was like, okay,

260
00:12:25,457 --> 00:12:29,867
that, that kind of makes sense because if I actually look past all my previous

261
00:12:29,867 --> 00:12:32,007
production is pretty much all circles.

262
00:12:32,277 --> 00:12:35,267
And the interesting thing to me is they all look wildly different, you

263
00:12:35,267 --> 00:12:38,127
know, like to me, it looks dramatically different because I'm super into the

264
00:12:38,127 --> 00:12:41,827
details and even like a little change in probably one of my series would look.

265
00:12:42,327 --> 00:12:45,537
Wildly different to me, but to other people say, like, that aren't looking

266
00:12:45,537 --> 00:12:49,457
at it in that same way, it may look self similar, so I said, I had actually done

267
00:12:49,457 --> 00:12:54,007
a Codex 32 prototype, where it actually, in order for me to do what I was saying

268
00:12:54,057 --> 00:12:57,117
I was doing earlier, was to actually make the keys, I had to go through the process,

269
00:12:57,117 --> 00:13:00,987
and I made one that was basically just a wooden version of it, just to see if

270
00:13:00,987 --> 00:13:04,897
I, you know, the dials worked, and I can actually do it, and Uh, and make something

271
00:13:04,897 --> 00:13:06,477
that was functional, for example.

272
00:13:06,727 --> 00:13:08,287
And so that was step one.

273
00:13:08,287 --> 00:13:11,377
And when I actually used it, it was just, you know, it was just so cool.

274
00:13:11,377 --> 00:13:12,757
Cause I was like, wow, this is actually neat.

275
00:13:12,767 --> 00:13:16,907
It's much cleaner than the paper computers looked, uh, to be honest.

276
00:13:16,927 --> 00:13:20,787
And, um, it was just neat to see something that was functional and actually.

277
00:13:20,997 --> 00:13:23,277
that you built and it's actually doing computations.

278
00:13:23,667 --> 00:13:27,747
Um, one of the really, the, the first computer does these batch 32 additions

279
00:13:27,747 --> 00:13:31,107
and it's something that I had never encountered before, but basically all

280
00:13:31,117 --> 00:13:34,077
the letters of the current Bitcoin addresses that we use, there's 32

281
00:13:34,077 --> 00:13:37,117
characters in them and it's called batch 32, that's the address format.

282
00:13:37,712 --> 00:13:40,392
And there's a, an addition that you can do.

283
00:13:40,392 --> 00:13:44,072
So you can take any of those 32 characters and add them against each other.

284
00:13:44,092 --> 00:13:47,302
So, okay, I'm going to take Q and 3 and see what they add up to.

285
00:13:47,302 --> 00:13:49,822
And any time thing times Q is always itself.

286
00:13:49,822 --> 00:13:51,532
So Q times 3 is going to be 3.

287
00:13:51,852 --> 00:13:54,902
Um, and 3 times Q is always going to be 3 also.

288
00:13:55,142 --> 00:13:56,132
And Q times Q.

289
00:13:56,362 --> 00:14:00,227
So basically like what it is, is it's Deterministic in the sense that

290
00:14:00,227 --> 00:14:01,947
like one, one plus one is always two.

291
00:14:01,947 --> 00:14:03,687
You never get a different result.

292
00:14:03,967 --> 00:14:08,417
So because every time you, you move this wheel to this number,

293
00:14:08,887 --> 00:14:11,527
every single character in there is always going to be identical.

294
00:14:11,547 --> 00:14:13,227
I could do this process today.

295
00:14:13,657 --> 00:14:14,427
I could die.

296
00:14:14,437 --> 00:14:17,437
And then 50 years from now, you know, one of my family members can move the

297
00:14:17,437 --> 00:14:22,217
wheel to the same exact position that I have in my keys, key set up and verify.

298
00:14:22,227 --> 00:14:24,077
Like there's, there's nothing that will change.

299
00:14:24,372 --> 00:14:26,572
You know, between now 50 years and a thousand years from

300
00:14:26,572 --> 00:14:28,052
now with the same technology.

301
00:14:28,052 --> 00:14:32,012
That's why I think it's so powerful because a hardware wallet, I mean,

302
00:14:32,012 --> 00:14:35,522
say 10 years might be the max time that you would think a hardware wallet

303
00:14:35,522 --> 00:14:38,772
would be good for just due to like maybe insecurities that might pop

304
00:14:38,772 --> 00:14:40,062
up or even just functional things.

305
00:14:40,062 --> 00:14:42,212
Like there's just like a hardware is not going to last forever.

306
00:14:42,472 --> 00:14:47,562
So any kind of computational storage is, is basically Easy to compromise.

307
00:14:47,572 --> 00:14:51,752
So you really need steel or something like that as your, as your storage method.

308
00:14:51,752 --> 00:14:55,652
I think in addition to, um, I think electronics are just not reliable

309
00:14:55,652 --> 00:14:57,152
for super long term storage.

310
00:14:57,152 --> 00:14:57,442
So,

311
00:14:57,962 --> 00:15:04,872
No, and speaking of Madeira, I mean, it's so, I'm so happy that you

312
00:15:04,872 --> 00:15:06,812
made it to Europe twice this year.

313
00:15:07,182 --> 00:15:11,902
Like, we, last time we met before that was in Miami and it's always

314
00:15:12,122 --> 00:15:16,682
so, so great to see you and, and, and have these conversations with you and

315
00:15:16,682 --> 00:15:18,222
you never know where things end up.

316
00:15:18,222 --> 00:15:22,062
And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but you just told me in Madeira that you

317
00:15:22,062 --> 00:15:26,942
built the, auction site where you auction out the, uh, the art all by yourself.

318
00:15:26,942 --> 00:15:31,692
So it's, it's, you're, you're like D I Y to the fullest extent.

319
00:15:31,792 --> 00:15:36,302
uh, yeah, I, yeah, I did build the auction site myself, which was cool because that

320
00:15:36,302 --> 00:15:39,562
way I could, you know, Kind of created the way that I wanted to create it and

321
00:15:39,562 --> 00:15:42,692
that was also a neat thing about the art gallery at Madeira was that they gave me

322
00:15:42,692 --> 00:15:47,642
a lot of leeway to do it the way that I thought would be neat and uh, so I think

323
00:15:47,642 --> 00:15:50,472
the gallery that we had at Madeira was, you know, I've never seen an art gallery

324
00:15:50,472 --> 00:15:54,482
that was cool like that because it was like exactly how I would want it to be.

325
00:15:54,482 --> 00:15:59,382
So, um, I think things like allowing you to have, like, have your vision

326
00:15:59,382 --> 00:16:04,262
and, and kind of put them in play into reality is, is very life changing.

327
00:16:04,262 --> 00:16:09,167
And I think even, like when you came to Miami, I honestly didn't think, I didn't

328
00:16:09,177 --> 00:16:12,197
see myself traveling to Europe for a long time because the travel restrictions

329
00:16:12,197 --> 00:16:17,087
were just so heavy and I just, it was just such a hassle to travel that, and we

330
00:16:17,087 --> 00:16:20,437
didn't know when that was going to stop, so I just didn't see it, and I honestly

331
00:16:20,437 --> 00:16:24,297
haven't gotten to travel in a long time, so to get to do two events out of the

332
00:16:24,297 --> 00:16:27,897
country and get to hang out with all these Bitcoiners and you guys specifically,

333
00:16:27,897 --> 00:16:32,912
it's just so, it's so rewarding because what's happening is that I'm actually

334
00:16:32,912 --> 00:16:37,152
getting to see the world using art as the vehicle that I travel through and

335
00:16:37,152 --> 00:16:41,232
that's always been my vision, you know, I always want to kind of use the art.

336
00:16:41,272 --> 00:16:44,532
I think that's the real benefit of the art is, is that it can help

337
00:16:44,542 --> 00:16:47,772
me, you know, kind of grow and experience new things as a person.

338
00:16:47,772 --> 00:16:50,272
And I think one of the things is you got to stack experiences, you

339
00:16:50,272 --> 00:16:54,402
know, you got to go different places and put yourself in, in situations.

340
00:16:54,617 --> 00:16:57,017
That aren't just you sitting in your bedroom at home, you know, like there's,

341
00:16:57,057 --> 00:16:58,647
there's more out there in the world.

342
00:16:58,907 --> 00:17:02,417
It's easy to sit in the bedroom at home, it's comfortable, but you know,

343
00:17:02,417 --> 00:17:05,527
I think putting yourself outside the comfort zone is super important.

344
00:17:05,732 --> 00:17:06,342
Absolutely.

345
00:17:06,342 --> 00:17:06,972
100%.

346
00:17:07,242 --> 00:17:11,432
And are the, the, I mean, I think this conference, I mean, the art

347
00:17:11,432 --> 00:17:13,082
gallery in Madeira was fantastic.

348
00:17:13,417 --> 00:17:17,857
But, uh, this one here, it's, uh, the gallery itself is simpler, but the,

349
00:17:17,867 --> 00:17:22,087
the three artists they have, like, uh, you and Apex and Madex, you're

350
00:17:22,107 --> 00:17:26,937
like the three top notch, uh, artists in the space, and did you, uh, were

351
00:17:27,107 --> 00:17:29,107
they using your site for all the art

352
00:17:29,507 --> 00:17:29,727
Oh,

353
00:17:29,727 --> 00:17:30,777
yes, I got distracted there.

354
00:17:30,777 --> 00:17:33,687
Yeah, we did use my site for all the auctions, so that, that was another thing.

355
00:17:33,687 --> 00:17:37,357
So the auction site I think was something that was really powerful in

356
00:17:37,357 --> 00:17:43,017
the sense that it gave me a vehicle to kind of middlemen and remove third

357
00:17:43,017 --> 00:17:47,487
parties from Being able to sell my art, which is super unusual for artists.

358
00:17:47,487 --> 00:17:49,597
You're like, most artists are beholden to a gallery.

359
00:17:49,817 --> 00:17:51,127
You know, they don't sell their own art.

360
00:17:51,127 --> 00:17:53,637
You know, it's like they make the art and they're good at art stuff.

361
00:17:53,637 --> 00:17:56,637
And, but they don't actually worry about any of the sales part.

362
00:17:56,677 --> 00:17:59,227
And I don't have anybody that's going to do the sales for me.

363
00:17:59,227 --> 00:18:00,767
So I pretty much have to do it myself.

364
00:18:00,767 --> 00:18:05,447
So, um, in the past I was, uh, you know, a hundred percent of my

365
00:18:05,447 --> 00:18:07,007
marketing is basically Twitter.

366
00:18:08,437 --> 00:18:10,817
I don't have really any other marketing plans.

367
00:18:10,817 --> 00:18:14,537
I just post pictures on Twitter or videos and people will usually message me.

368
00:18:14,537 --> 00:18:17,587
It was kind of how I first sold things before we did any auctions.

369
00:18:17,967 --> 00:18:23,607
And then I think in December of 2020, Scare City did their first auction and

370
00:18:23,607 --> 00:18:26,937
they were like a Bitcoin only auction site, uh, you know, Lightning main chain.

371
00:18:26,957 --> 00:18:29,797
It was really cool physical art and I thought it was amazing.

372
00:18:29,797 --> 00:18:29,947
So.

373
00:18:30,332 --> 00:18:34,992
I did my first auction with them, I think in February of 2020 and,

374
00:18:34,992 --> 00:18:38,952
um, Sailor bought the, the, um, the sculpture right after that auction.

375
00:18:38,952 --> 00:18:41,102
So like that, that was a very big deal for me.

376
00:18:41,502 --> 00:18:46,312
And I pretty much felt like we grew together for pretty much that whole year.

377
00:18:46,312 --> 00:18:49,112
Like me and Scarcity together, we're really having a lot of

378
00:18:49,112 --> 00:18:51,642
growth and having a really, you know, a really good integration.

379
00:18:51,962 --> 00:18:56,602
But I think over time we just became a little ideologically, um, opposed

380
00:18:56,602 --> 00:19:01,662
because I tend to be very hardline with some of the, the way that I do things

381
00:19:01,662 --> 00:19:05,022
and they were very freeform and they kind of wanted to be inclusive of a lot

382
00:19:05,022 --> 00:19:08,842
more art that, say, would like tokenize things and they kind of went full on

383
00:19:08,842 --> 00:19:12,912
into the ordinals and the NFT, you know, they, they kept it on Bitcoin.

384
00:19:13,372 --> 00:19:14,642
Which to me was even worse.

385
00:19:14,902 --> 00:19:18,632
Um, so like, I love them.

386
00:19:18,632 --> 00:19:19,252
I think they're great.

387
00:19:19,252 --> 00:19:23,522
I love what they do, but I didn't want to kind of display my art next to a

388
00:19:23,522 --> 00:19:27,872
lot of that because I felt number one, it may legitimize that in some way.

389
00:19:27,872 --> 00:19:30,522
And also I just, I just didn't want to be a part of any of that.

390
00:19:30,522 --> 00:19:32,492
It felt scammy in some sense.

391
00:19:32,492 --> 00:19:36,272
Like, I just don't like the tokenized art because I'm not, the more I look into it,

392
00:19:36,272 --> 00:19:40,392
the more unreal it seems like I've never been able to hit a point where, Oh, this

393
00:19:40,392 --> 00:19:44,737
seems like a, Really awesome, wholesome idea and it's, it's good vibes and stuff.

394
00:19:44,737 --> 00:19:47,057
So to me, I didn't want to be a part of that.

395
00:19:47,087 --> 00:19:50,847
And then, uh, Bitblock boom, I displayed, I wanted to display, cause

396
00:19:50,847 --> 00:19:54,917
it's like a Bitcoin only conference and, um, but ScareCity was doing

397
00:19:54,917 --> 00:19:56,717
the, like the art gallery there.

398
00:19:56,717 --> 00:19:58,617
So I said, okay, like I had reached out to them.

399
00:19:58,617 --> 00:19:59,697
They told me all ScareCity's doing.

400
00:19:59,697 --> 00:20:00,387
I said, okay, fine.

401
00:20:00,387 --> 00:20:01,297
Let's see, you know, what's up.

402
00:20:01,297 --> 00:20:03,717
So we'll do a, we'll do an auction together.

403
00:20:03,737 --> 00:20:07,097
And, um, but we did an auction and it went well.

404
00:20:07,157 --> 00:20:08,497
And then at the end, like.

405
00:20:08,957 --> 00:20:12,277
The buyer actually told me that he paid for the auction using a credit

406
00:20:12,277 --> 00:20:17,197
card and I was like that was a little too far for me at that point because

407
00:20:17,197 --> 00:20:21,377
I really wanted to be bitcoin only and even though even though I did get paid

408
00:20:21,377 --> 00:20:25,277
in bitcoin yes they pay me in bitcoin I just didn't like the fact that the the

409
00:20:25,277 --> 00:20:28,667
buyers were able to pay in credit card that could be horrible on my part but

410
00:20:29,007 --> 00:20:30,217
um, I wanted

411
00:20:30,217 --> 00:20:33,987
it to be like I like I have a purity test I guess in some some sense it

412
00:20:34,037 --> 00:20:36,807
may be horrible to say that but I just wanted it to be how I want it

413
00:20:36,847 --> 00:20:39,837
No, but it's like, uh, someone selling puppies, and they don't

414
00:20:39,837 --> 00:20:43,717
want to sell their puppies to, uh, to someone who's mean to dogs,

415
00:20:43,997 --> 00:20:48,097
sure It's just like art, like every line in my art is, is meaningful in

416
00:20:48,097 --> 00:20:50,677
the sense that I, I, I stress over it.

417
00:20:50,677 --> 00:20:51,557
I want it to be perfect.

418
00:20:51,557 --> 00:20:52,337
I want it to look right.

419
00:20:52,617 --> 00:20:54,627
So even, even the sales of stuff.

420
00:20:54,627 --> 00:20:56,667
I mean, we were kind of talking the other night about how certain,

421
00:20:56,667 --> 00:21:00,657
certain things are not only the, not only the, for example, food.

422
00:21:00,657 --> 00:21:03,697
If you're talking about organic, it's not only the, the food itself, but it's

423
00:21:03,697 --> 00:21:05,307
actually everything that goes around it.

424
00:21:05,327 --> 00:21:06,837
Like, you know, what are the inputs?

425
00:21:06,847 --> 00:21:08,477
What's, what are the harvesting tools?

426
00:21:08,477 --> 00:21:11,607
What are the, what are the transportation, like all those things have to be.

427
00:21:11,892 --> 00:21:15,222
Organic as well and that has nothing to do with like the food that you actually

428
00:21:15,222 --> 00:21:19,582
are eating, it's just the way that the human actions that are that are around

429
00:21:19,592 --> 00:21:24,242
that so I think like my art I tend to do it in that in that way so because

430
00:21:24,742 --> 00:21:29,972
because I just had felt that I didn't really want to be a part of that anymore

431
00:21:29,992 --> 00:21:34,227
but I still wanted to sell my art and I love the Bitcoin auction format That I

432
00:21:34,227 --> 00:21:35,927
just wanted to kind of do that on my own.

433
00:21:35,927 --> 00:21:38,507
So I basically built the site just for myself so I could do

434
00:21:38,517 --> 00:21:39,937
my own Bitcoin only auctions.

435
00:21:39,947 --> 00:21:41,467
That was the original vision.

436
00:21:41,987 --> 00:21:46,402
Um, because I just felt like, like I said, I wanted to continue doing it.

437
00:21:46,572 --> 00:21:47,602
I wanted to do something.

438
00:21:47,602 --> 00:21:55,002
Like if I don't feel in line with things, then I can't put my all into it, you know?

439
00:21:55,242 --> 00:22:00,372
So I think by, by removing that, that middleman, then I tend not to do

440
00:22:00,382 --> 00:22:03,482
collaborations with other people because I like to, I like to be very specific

441
00:22:03,482 --> 00:22:06,392
with my, my direction and I like, I know where I'm going and I want to be

442
00:22:06,392 --> 00:22:07,672
there and I don't want to compromise.

443
00:22:08,012 --> 00:22:10,702
So by doing it myself, I didn't have to compromise.

444
00:22:11,022 --> 00:22:15,182
And the Bitcoin Atlantis thing really helped in many ways because

445
00:22:15,832 --> 00:22:17,482
I was, yes, I wanted to do that.

446
00:22:17,482 --> 00:22:19,892
I was being a little lazy about it, but then when they asked me to do the

447
00:22:19,892 --> 00:22:23,877
gallery, they also said, well, we'll, We, you know, can we use your site to

448
00:22:23,877 --> 00:22:25,357
do the auctions if you're doing that?

449
00:22:25,357 --> 00:22:26,867
And I was like, okay, yes.

450
00:22:26,927 --> 00:22:30,087
And I said yes before I had it fully built.

451
00:22:30,097 --> 00:22:34,347
So I was like, okay, like I need to, now I need to actually like get in and do it.

452
00:22:34,357 --> 00:22:36,127
So I did have like five or six months to do it.

453
00:22:36,127 --> 00:22:36,937
So it was plenty of time.

454
00:22:36,937 --> 00:22:41,227
Cause it was, it was like half ish done, but I think going from half done

455
00:22:41,227 --> 00:22:44,447
to full done takes more time than the first, than the first half, because

456
00:22:44,447 --> 00:22:45,957
you're really have to refine everything.

457
00:22:45,957 --> 00:22:46,047
So.

458
00:22:47,332 --> 00:22:51,222
It helped me advance so much because now I felt responsible for other people.

459
00:22:51,392 --> 00:22:54,312
Like it wasn't just, it wasn't just me that I had to do it right for.

460
00:22:54,312 --> 00:22:57,612
I had actually like responsibility for all these other people that were going

461
00:22:57,612 --> 00:22:58,572
to do it through the site as well.

462
00:22:58,572 --> 00:23:01,012
So that made me want to do it as, as best as possible.

463
00:23:01,052 --> 00:23:03,452
So I, you know, I was able to go through it, build it up.

464
00:23:03,452 --> 00:23:05,752
And we actually had 80 auctions and they went from.

465
00:23:05,902 --> 00:23:08,602
You know, really well, you know, you always have some bugs when you

466
00:23:08,642 --> 00:23:12,842
expose a software to the public, but it, to me, I think went super well.

467
00:23:13,142 --> 00:23:15,182
Um, all the artists did extremely well.

468
00:23:15,182 --> 00:23:17,562
We had four or five auctions that didn't get paid for.

469
00:23:17,892 --> 00:23:20,582
Um, and that's because I didn't put deposit requirements on it.

470
00:23:20,582 --> 00:23:21,342
I was a little worried.

471
00:23:21,342 --> 00:23:25,902
We were going through this like high, um, high fee spam attack at the time.

472
00:23:25,902 --> 00:23:29,232
And, and fees were like almost, I want, I don't know what they were.

473
00:23:29,242 --> 00:23:32,392
Let's say a hundred dollars for a transaction or 50 for a transaction.

474
00:23:32,392 --> 00:23:32,672
So.

475
00:23:32,997 --> 00:23:37,097
If you're going to leave a deposit on an auction, you know, to do that

476
00:23:37,547 --> 00:23:39,157
on mainchain was very expensive.

477
00:23:39,157 --> 00:23:42,407
So I was worried that that would cause people not to bid in the auction.

478
00:23:42,407 --> 00:23:46,767
So I said, Oh, you know, eBay is like the biggest auction place in the world.

479
00:23:46,777 --> 00:23:49,507
They don't make people put deposits, so it should be fine.

480
00:23:49,887 --> 00:23:53,132
And, um, so I did that, but yeah, so there was like I would say of the 80

481
00:23:53,132 --> 00:23:56,292
auctions, you know, 75 got paid for, we had five that didn't, but for the

482
00:23:56,292 --> 00:23:58,892
five that didn't, it definitely hurt, you know, because you kind of think

483
00:23:58,892 --> 00:24:00,632
you have that there and then, whatever.

484
00:24:00,642 --> 00:24:02,842
So, this time we put deposit requirements.

485
00:24:02,882 --> 00:24:03,112
And,

486
00:24:03,192 --> 00:24:07,682
around how many bitcoin in total, like, went around those, like,

487
00:24:07,952 --> 00:24:09,672
was on the site during Madeira?

488
00:24:09,772 --> 00:24:10,782
Like, did it handle?

489
00:24:12,177 --> 00:24:12,287
A

490
00:24:12,382 --> 00:24:13,372
a, well,

491
00:24:13,497 --> 00:24:15,267
You don't have to give away the exact

492
00:24:15,572 --> 00:24:18,052
it actually, I mean, I handled everything perfectly.

493
00:24:18,052 --> 00:24:22,472
It was, uh, BTC pay server is the back end of it, so it functions extremely well.

494
00:24:22,807 --> 00:24:27,017
Um, that's another thing is like, okay, so the, the auction site allows me to be self

495
00:24:27,017 --> 00:24:31,077
sovereign in the auctions, but so does the BTC pay server without that critical

496
00:24:31,077 --> 00:24:32,967
piece, um, I couldn't do it.

497
00:24:32,987 --> 00:24:37,997
And the, the neat thing is, is that basically the website platform I use

498
00:24:37,997 --> 00:24:41,467
is called PrestaShop and PrestaShop is interesting because they are open

499
00:24:41,467 --> 00:24:45,477
source, uh, free open source website development platform, e commerce platform.

500
00:24:45,477 --> 00:24:48,937
So you can actually, you know, install PrestaShop for free and

501
00:24:48,937 --> 00:24:51,357
you have an e commerce site, a very basic e commerce site.

502
00:24:51,747 --> 00:24:54,597
And then everything on top of that is basically modules.

503
00:24:54,607 --> 00:24:57,717
So you can kind of plug and play, you know, your theme or the way

504
00:24:57,717 --> 00:25:00,137
that it looks or the functionality, all these different things.

505
00:25:00,137 --> 00:25:02,977
So, um, BTC pay server has a module.

506
00:25:02,977 --> 00:25:07,367
So like I just uninstalled every payment module module that it came with all the

507
00:25:07,567 --> 00:25:10,207
fiat bullshit installed BTC pay server.

508
00:25:10,207 --> 00:25:12,757
And then that, that is the unit of account on the website.

509
00:25:12,767 --> 00:25:13,717
Like everything's priced in

510
00:25:13,737 --> 00:25:14,127
Way to

511
00:25:14,177 --> 00:25:15,247
and yeah.

512
00:25:15,427 --> 00:25:18,307
And, um, it's so, and it's super functional.

513
00:25:18,367 --> 00:25:19,837
I haven't had much problems.

514
00:25:19,837 --> 00:25:21,287
And when I do have problems, they have.

515
00:25:21,377 --> 00:25:22,487
Really good tech support.

516
00:25:22,487 --> 00:25:25,567
So, you know, I go over to them and say, Hey, this is what's going on.

517
00:25:25,567 --> 00:25:30,677
And it's kind of weird that like a free software project even has

518
00:25:30,677 --> 00:25:34,007
good tech support because like I have paid software where you

519
00:25:34,007 --> 00:25:35,397
don't even get good tech support.

520
00:25:35,397 --> 00:25:38,317
So, you know, it's highly commendable.

521
00:25:38,567 --> 00:25:41,447
And so I think like these are really important things because

522
00:25:41,487 --> 00:25:44,167
these are tools that Bitcoiners are making for other Bitcoiners that

523
00:25:44,167 --> 00:25:45,537
allow them to be self sovereign.

524
00:25:45,537 --> 00:25:45,747
And.

525
00:25:46,082 --> 00:25:51,412
Um, and even like, my art in a way, I feel like the Bitcoiners that buy it

526
00:25:51,412 --> 00:25:56,422
or even that place the bids, um, those people are pretty much allowing me to

527
00:25:56,422 --> 00:26:01,072
go farther with what I've already been able to do, so it's kind of like, every,

528
00:26:01,112 --> 00:26:05,172
every art piece that I have is, is like a step up maybe, um, in a ladder.

529
00:26:05,512 --> 00:26:08,742
And you can't, you can't reach the next step until you've already climbed

530
00:26:08,742 --> 00:26:12,712
the lower ones, but it's hard to keep doing that if like no one supports you.

531
00:26:13,002 --> 00:26:15,982
And so I think just the support and the feedback that I get

532
00:26:16,012 --> 00:26:17,932
is so rewarding, you know?

533
00:26:17,932 --> 00:26:21,592
So like, I think coming to these conferences is extremely rewarding in the

534
00:26:21,592 --> 00:26:26,742
sense that if I create something and post some pictures or videos on Twitter, then

535
00:26:26,742 --> 00:26:30,342
that's really the only way that a lot of people ever get to see some of the art.

536
00:26:30,362 --> 00:26:33,022
And then it goes in a box and goes to a collector and then it goes in their

537
00:26:33,022 --> 00:26:34,992
house and no, we don't ever see it again.

538
00:26:35,522 --> 00:26:40,092
So the opportunity to bring it in front of 5, 000 people, 10, 000 people, 20, 000

539
00:26:40,142 --> 00:26:44,452
people, and actually have them stand in front of it is really important to me.

540
00:28:25,130 --> 00:28:31,040
Well, we spoke about, uh, touched a bit on the travel restrictions, but traveling

541
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:37,310
with art is no walk in the park in itself, even if there are no restrictions, right?

542
00:28:37,310 --> 00:28:37,470
Is this here?

543
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,200
So can you tell us a bit about that, the stress of, like, shipping

544
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,000
these things across the world?

545
00:28:44,135 --> 00:28:46,585
Well, yeah, there's a huge amount of stress with shipping

546
00:28:46,595 --> 00:28:47,385
them across the world.

547
00:28:48,350 --> 00:28:52,370
Like, I hadn't actually experienced that before, um, many times.

548
00:28:52,380 --> 00:28:54,430
I've shipped a whole bunch of sculptures all over the planet.

549
00:28:54,430 --> 00:28:58,370
I mean, I've done art for a long time, and I even had an Etsy store where we

550
00:28:58,370 --> 00:28:59,650
shipped everything all over the world.

551
00:28:59,650 --> 00:29:03,720
And I, I never had, like, much trouble with customs and stuff, but Portugal

552
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,490
definitely had some, some issues with customs that, that I ran into.

553
00:29:07,790 --> 00:29:10,420
And it, you know, it wasn't even on the way in, but on the

554
00:29:10,420 --> 00:29:12,250
way out, we had, we had issues.

555
00:29:12,270 --> 00:29:18,370
And That kind of led to the creation of the current project that I had

556
00:29:18,370 --> 00:29:24,770
because when, um, when we had, I don't know how far to get into this, but,

557
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:26,190
uh, yeah,

558
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,020
but, like, just to quickly say, like, the current one that I was making,

559
00:29:30,110 --> 00:29:33,720
I wasn't even going to go to Prague because I just had a whole bunch of like

560
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,790
crazy things going on and I just didn't think I could make something in time.

561
00:29:36,790 --> 00:29:39,670
It just, usually when I make a sculpture, it's, it's multi months

562
00:29:39,670 --> 00:29:43,450
thing and I only had about a month and a half left at this time.

563
00:29:43,450 --> 00:29:45,860
So, I even told the people at Prague, I was like, I don't think I can come,

564
00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:49,470
um, because it's just, you know, how am I going to make something,

565
00:29:49,470 --> 00:29:50,810
ship it out there and do all this?

566
00:29:50,810 --> 00:29:53,420
And I actually had a conversation with another artist friend of

567
00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:56,440
mine and I think they said, no, he's a really cool Bitcoin artist.

568
00:29:56,470 --> 00:30:00,375
And he told me that, I can't miss the opportunity.

569
00:30:00,465 --> 00:30:03,175
You know, like we just had a having, how could you not go to the thing?

570
00:30:03,185 --> 00:30:05,365
You got to go and just see, you know, display some art.

571
00:30:05,375 --> 00:30:07,785
He said, don't do one of your big production pieces.

572
00:30:07,785 --> 00:30:08,945
Just do something simple.

573
00:30:08,945 --> 00:30:12,115
You know, maybe you can do like three small things that fit in your, in your,

574
00:30:12,115 --> 00:30:14,415
carry on and then you won't have to ship it.

575
00:30:14,445 --> 00:30:16,615
And when he said that, it like a light clicked on in my head.

576
00:30:16,615 --> 00:30:17,985
It kind of made it seem like.

577
00:30:18,465 --> 00:30:21,385
Oh, and now this is possible because if it's something that I don't have to trust

578
00:30:21,385 --> 00:30:23,475
someone else to like, you know, hold,

579
00:30:23,475 --> 00:30:27,135
or even if I have to, I like, I don't even like trusting the guys to do the under the

580
00:30:27,145 --> 00:30:29,215
carriage, uh, like the checked baggage.

581
00:30:29,425 --> 00:30:33,085
So if it's a carry on size, then that I can actually do.

582
00:30:33,115 --> 00:30:34,225
So I thought that was awesome.

583
00:30:34,685 --> 00:30:36,485
And that basically flipped the script for me.

584
00:30:36,485 --> 00:30:38,575
So that weekend I said, all right, if I can come up with a

585
00:30:38,575 --> 00:30:41,135
design, then I can go to Prague.

586
00:30:41,245 --> 00:30:43,625
And if I don't come up with a design, then I have to stay home.

587
00:30:43,870 --> 00:30:49,280
This is, this is so funny, because like, just how taxes, uh, Shape

588
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,030
architecture over the centuries.

589
00:30:52,030 --> 00:30:52,090
Yeah.

590
00:30:52,510 --> 00:30:57,100
Uh, these, uh, like the, the, the airline rules for how big a hand

591
00:30:57,100 --> 00:31:01,210
luggage, uh, a carry on luggage can be, is actually shaping art

592
00:31:01,375 --> 00:31:02,105
. Absolutely.

593
00:31:02,155 --> 00:31:02,695
Absolutely.

594
00:31:02,695 --> 00:31:03,765
So I did the research.

595
00:31:03,765 --> 00:31:06,415
I said, okay, what size, you know, what's the max size?

596
00:31:06,825 --> 00:31:11,405
And, you know, I saw, okay, you can go up to 22 inches, uh, long and, you

597
00:31:11,405 --> 00:31:12,885
know, you can go about 16 inches wide.

598
00:31:12,885 --> 00:31:15,965
So 22 inches long, you know, Bitcoin, we got 21 then.

599
00:31:15,965 --> 00:31:16,545
So, okay.

600
00:31:16,545 --> 00:31:18,815
So I'm basically designed them all at 21 inches.

601
00:31:19,235 --> 00:31:24,645
Um, but like that turned out to be a little tricky because bags actually

602
00:31:24,645 --> 00:31:26,265
have a little extra stuff on the side.

603
00:31:26,265 --> 00:31:28,255
And if I want to put padding and protect it, like.

604
00:31:29,015 --> 00:31:30,655
That wasn't a hundred percent thought through.

605
00:31:30,655 --> 00:31:34,405
So like after I bought my first bag, I cut like a little test one

606
00:31:34,405 --> 00:31:36,775
just to see if it would fit and that shit didn't fit in there at all.

607
00:31:36,775 --> 00:31:40,245
So I was like, okay, I work in something called Illustrator.

608
00:31:40,245 --> 00:31:41,035
It's vector art.

609
00:31:41,035 --> 00:31:42,815
So it's extremely easy to resize.

610
00:31:42,815 --> 00:31:45,255
All you do is you just take it and you just say, this is the size I want it.

611
00:31:45,255 --> 00:31:48,135
So you just, so I basically, I had only done the first one by

612
00:31:48,155 --> 00:31:49,375
the time I made that mess up.

613
00:31:49,375 --> 00:31:52,005
So I was able to do the other two at the correct size, but

614
00:31:52,005 --> 00:31:53,265
the first one, I just resized.

615
00:31:53,710 --> 00:31:57,080
And, um, to be honest, like when I put that one in the,

616
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,470
um, case, it didn't fit either.

617
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:05,500
And I ended up having to buy like three or four, um, different carry on cases

618
00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:06,840
just to find the one that would fit.

619
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,840
And in the end, none of those actually worked.

620
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,780
I had to just buy a duffel bag that was slightly larger because what I did was I,

621
00:32:13,310 --> 00:32:15,650
I, basically knew the size of the pieces.

622
00:32:15,990 --> 00:32:19,840
So I did, I custom designed these exact size little.

623
00:32:20,275 --> 00:32:24,395
rectangles that were basically three quarters of an inch smaller than

624
00:32:24,395 --> 00:32:26,515
the max required size on any side.

625
00:32:26,875 --> 00:32:29,145
And then I basically sandwiched them in.

626
00:32:29,145 --> 00:32:30,665
So it was a perfect rectangle.

627
00:32:31,005 --> 00:32:33,835
And then I put them in a duffel bag and it was like the exact

628
00:32:33,835 --> 00:32:35,485
size that you needed to get.

629
00:32:35,525 --> 00:32:37,915
I even like was like a little stressed that it was going

630
00:32:37,915 --> 00:32:39,345
to fit in their carry on box.

631
00:32:39,345 --> 00:32:43,175
So the first, I went like three hours early just to like, no one would see me.

632
00:32:43,175 --> 00:32:46,400
And I'm just like checking it out and like goes in Yes!

633
00:32:46,860 --> 00:32:48,510
If it didn't go in, I don't know what I would've done.

634
00:32:48,770 --> 00:32:51,690
I was like, I was just gonna argue with them and say like,

635
00:32:52,260 --> 00:32:53,710
I can't go if this can't go.

636
00:32:55,330 --> 00:33:00,890
I'm so like amazed by the stress that must go into like, I, I

637
00:33:00,940 --> 00:33:02,590
sell books at conferences, right?

638
00:33:02,610 --> 00:33:05,650
And I assign books and whatnot, and they come in boxes and they all

639
00:33:05,650 --> 00:33:09,870
look the same and like, they have a low, fairly low production cost.

640
00:33:10,660 --> 00:33:14,550
there's a fairly low profit on them and it's like so there's no like if

641
00:33:14,550 --> 00:33:17,330
anything happens or shipment doesn't arrive it's not the end of the

642
00:33:17,330 --> 00:33:21,060
world and like you handle it uh but

643
00:33:22,130 --> 00:33:22,400
No,

644
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:22,680
this is

645
00:33:22,730 --> 00:33:27,950
seeing your yeah seeing seeing your pieces which is like half a year's work in is

646
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:34,055
one thing and that thing Well, if anything happens to it, that's like six years,

647
00:33:34,415 --> 00:33:36,725
six months of work down the drain, right?

648
00:33:36,725 --> 00:33:37,705
So it's a, it's a

649
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:41,390
worry just driving it from my house to the airport because like someone could hit

650
00:33:41,390 --> 00:33:44,150
us as we're, you know, we can get into an accident and then it could be destroyed.

651
00:33:44,150 --> 00:33:47,080
And, um, no man, like it was super high stress.

652
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,040
And when I, I, I went at first, the, you know, The ticket guy,

653
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,730
he was like, oh, we could check that for you for free at no cost.

654
00:33:53,730 --> 00:33:54,540
It looks pretty big.

655
00:33:54,540 --> 00:33:56,990
And, and I was like, no, I'm not checking this.

656
00:33:56,990 --> 00:33:58,590
And then, uh, yeah.

657
00:33:58,700 --> 00:34:00,780
And when I went around to the side to get in there, it didn't

658
00:34:00,790 --> 00:34:01,820
have some kind of sticker.

659
00:34:01,820 --> 00:34:03,970
And, and at first they argued, they didn't want to give me a sticker.

660
00:34:03,970 --> 00:34:07,140
I went back and like, You need to put a sticker on this bag because

661
00:34:07,140 --> 00:34:07,470
it's good.

662
00:34:07,780 --> 00:34:10,980
It's coming with me like that It's extremely high stress because like you

663
00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:14,350
said this is six months of my life, and I'm holding it with me I'm sorry.

664
00:34:14,350 --> 00:34:17,450
You're not giving it to none of these people and I would go home You know

665
00:34:17,450 --> 00:34:21,530
instead and so yes, it's extremely high stress in that sense, but I also

666
00:34:21,530 --> 00:34:27,715
was stressed because my wife said TSA is most likely gonna wanna open

667
00:34:27,715 --> 00:34:31,845
those cases and look at it, which made perfect sense to me, cause like,

668
00:34:31,925 --> 00:34:35,055
you're basically walking through the security with three stargates, you know?

669
00:34:36,055 --> 00:34:38,465
They're gonna be curious to see what the hell's going on.

670
00:34:38,705 --> 00:34:42,855
So I kinda made it so that it would've been easy for me to open them up, I even

671
00:34:42,855 --> 00:34:46,415
put my little white gloves and stuff, so if I had to open it up, cause TSA always

672
00:34:46,415 --> 00:34:49,225
has gloves too, so I figured, you know, we'll be able to rock and roll with it.

673
00:34:49,585 --> 00:34:53,495
Um, but whatever, I put it through the thing, totally expecting them to be

674
00:34:53,495 --> 00:34:56,090
like, But they didn't even look at it.

675
00:34:56,090 --> 00:34:56,750
It just went right

676
00:34:56,750 --> 00:34:58,560
through and just came back to me.

677
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,920
And I was like, okay, let's go.

678
00:35:01,290 --> 00:35:06,310
And yeah, so that like, it was like a lot of that where things just kind

679
00:35:06,310 --> 00:35:08,060
of kept working out in the right way.

680
00:35:08,270 --> 00:35:10,710
You know, I was able to get in, I was able to get in with a little

681
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:13,870
bit, you know, large looking bag, you know, they didn't search the stuff.

682
00:35:13,870 --> 00:35:16,790
And, um, and not that it would have been a problem if they searched it.

683
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,010
I just don't want people touching things that they're not supposed

684
00:35:19,010 --> 00:35:19,830
to like, you know.

685
00:35:20,485 --> 00:35:26,675
Yeah, yeah, and they have such skewed incentives, like, they have to Catch one

686
00:35:26,675 --> 00:35:32,655
or two or like look through one or two on like every hundred, hundredth bag or

687
00:35:32,675 --> 00:35:37,535
something because otherwise they're not doing their job and so they do random

688
00:35:37,535 --> 00:35:42,465
stuff and I've seen when I worked on the tall ship like ages ago, there was one

689
00:35:42,465 --> 00:35:49,425
of the students who went from, we flew from Cartagena, Colombia, via Miami,

690
00:35:49,735 --> 00:35:55,585
via, uh, I think Charles de Gaulle in, uh, Paris, and, uh, back to Sweden.

691
00:35:55,905 --> 00:36:00,655
And when we come out of the, um, of the airport, he's like, Oh, holy

692
00:36:00,655 --> 00:36:02,795
shit, I've had this on me all the way.

693
00:36:02,815 --> 00:36:06,665
And there's like a 5 wrench, literally in his back pocket.

694
00:36:06,895 --> 00:36:10,155
And he had just gone through all of those machines in all of the airports.

695
00:36:10,155 --> 00:36:15,180
It's like, So much of it is just random and just, uh, just fake, uh,

696
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,310
and it's just there to scare people.

697
00:36:17,355 --> 00:36:19,805
Man, you would think, yeah, the metal wrench of all things would have

698
00:36:20,125 --> 00:36:21,375
raised an alarm, like, you

699
00:36:21,530 --> 00:36:22,680
uh, apparently it worked.

700
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:23,760
He could walk through

701
00:36:23,905 --> 00:36:24,445
Oh, wow.

702
00:36:24,940 --> 00:36:25,780
three continents.

703
00:36:25,935 --> 00:36:27,365
would have made me even more paranoid.

704
00:36:27,365 --> 00:36:29,525
It's not, not even the fact that they look like stargates.

705
00:36:29,525 --> 00:36:31,745
You might just be the, you just might be the number.

706
00:36:31,995 --> 00:36:34,065
Like, oh, you're the random guy that we pick, so.

707
00:36:34,415 --> 00:36:37,055
Yeah, and it's one of those things that I went very early

708
00:36:37,055 --> 00:36:38,825
just to deal with any nonsense.

709
00:36:38,835 --> 00:36:41,235
Like, I don't want to like, hey, if they're going to pull this out, they're

710
00:36:41,235 --> 00:36:42,395
probably going to, what is this?

711
00:36:42,395 --> 00:36:44,915
And I'm going to have to lie and say that it's like, you know, an

712
00:36:44,935 --> 00:36:48,305
astronomical thing that I'm going to talk about at a math conference about,

713
00:36:48,315 --> 00:36:50,955
because I don't want to just get into the Bitcoin thing with some stranger.

714
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:52,230
That's not entirely

715
00:36:52,665 --> 00:36:54,075
Yeah, no, yeah, exactly.

716
00:36:54,085 --> 00:36:56,805
Yeah, it's not a lie, but it's, you know, coloring the truth, you know,

717
00:36:56,965 --> 00:36:57,615
Yeah, yeah,

718
00:36:57,795 --> 00:37:01,515
uh, the thing is, is like, if you, if I say, like, this is a

719
00:37:01,515 --> 00:37:04,555
cryptographic computer that creates Bitcoin keys, then, you know, that

720
00:37:04,555 --> 00:37:05,755
might just be too interesting.

721
00:37:06,005 --> 00:37:06,635
Yeah.

722
00:37:07,035 --> 00:37:08,915
How do you, how do you handle the stress?

723
00:37:08,975 --> 00:37:13,455
Like, do you have, uh, ways of handling that type of stress?

724
00:37:13,595 --> 00:37:16,955
I think it's just like, cannabis is probably the answer.

725
00:37:17,895 --> 00:37:23,085
So, yeah, no, I, I think my, I think that my composition is such that I, I

726
00:37:23,085 --> 00:37:26,535
have been through a lot of stressful events in the past, so I, I kinda have

727
00:37:26,535 --> 00:37:29,715
some training, like, you know, if you exercise certain muscles, then you

728
00:37:29,715 --> 00:37:33,065
get, like, a little stronger, I just seem to always have the craziest shit

729
00:37:33,075 --> 00:37:37,855
happen to me, so, like, I, like, amp up my stress exercise, and I think I'm

730
00:37:37,855 --> 00:37:41,635
just a tiny bit more resilient and, and adaptive, which helps me, because,

731
00:37:41,985 --> 00:37:43,605
Um, cause life is just tough, dude.

732
00:37:43,615 --> 00:37:45,575
You know, you just run into just so many obstacles.

733
00:37:45,575 --> 00:37:48,425
And I think like the important thing is like kind of, we were saying with the TV,

734
00:37:48,425 --> 00:37:52,265
you just can't let that stuff stop you because what, you know, I'm on a mission

735
00:37:52,265 --> 00:37:55,655
here, I'm on a mission to actually do things that are very cool for Bitcoin.

736
00:37:55,705 --> 00:37:59,565
I don't know what that is exactly, but the mission is to make cool stuff for Bitcoin.

737
00:37:59,565 --> 00:38:03,435
And, and I think like that's important and that's what I need to focus on and

738
00:38:03,435 --> 00:38:07,165
anything that distracts from that, I have to ruthlessly kind of, you know,

739
00:38:07,215 --> 00:38:10,640
excommunicate that from my life and, and really be purposeful about what I'm

740
00:38:10,980 --> 00:38:16,760
So, what I spend my time on, um, that's why, you know, cause a lot of times

741
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,030
I'll spend a lot of time working on a project that just never manifests like,

742
00:38:20,030 --> 00:38:23,220
oh, you know, you think this is cool, you're working on it and it actually

743
00:38:23,220 --> 00:38:26,390
may be super cool, but then I'll get distracted, you know, like I'll get like

744
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:29,800
this momentary like idea and it's like, oh, you kind of have to follow that for

745
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,260
a minute and just see where that goes.

746
00:38:31,550 --> 00:38:34,530
And I've had so many of my pieces just arise like that.

747
00:38:34,570 --> 00:38:37,485
And Um, even this one is, is basically like that.

748
00:38:37,485 --> 00:38:39,965
I had started that Codex32 thing months and months ago.

749
00:38:39,965 --> 00:38:41,715
It was in circles, didn't even look like this.

750
00:38:42,055 --> 00:38:45,565
I started sketching out the rectangle thing after I got back from Madeira

751
00:38:45,565 --> 00:38:49,885
a little, but if I showed you what I started the weekend with, and I

752
00:38:49,885 --> 00:38:53,275
will, I, I'm going to have to show you now and post, post pictures of it.

753
00:38:53,275 --> 00:38:53,705
It's, it's.

754
00:38:53,885 --> 00:38:58,165
It's like, kindergarten level chicken scratch type stuff.

755
00:38:58,165 --> 00:39:01,935
I mean, all I did was, all I did was place, place the items, like

756
00:39:01,935 --> 00:39:03,175
this is where it's gonna go.

757
00:39:03,195 --> 00:39:06,425
Like, zero design work is just a bunch of like, nothing.

758
00:39:06,755 --> 00:39:10,395
And then, um, but, this is actually part of a much bigger project.

759
00:39:10,395 --> 00:39:12,480
Like, I'm working on this Codex 32.

760
00:39:13,020 --> 00:39:14,820
Like a full on computer.

761
00:39:14,820 --> 00:39:18,800
This, this one has most everything that you need, but there's a lot missing.

762
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,820
There's a lot of other things that would be really nice if you could just

763
00:39:21,850 --> 00:39:23,450
integrate it all in the whole piece.

764
00:39:23,460 --> 00:39:26,780
So there's no additional worksheets that you need or no additional lookup tables.

765
00:39:27,220 --> 00:39:29,350
Um, and, but to do that, it's going to have to be a

766
00:39:29,350 --> 00:39:31,520
relatively grand, large piece.

767
00:39:31,660 --> 00:39:35,220
And the funny thing is, is people always ask me, they're like, Oh, this is big.

768
00:39:35,230 --> 00:39:36,530
Can you do something smaller?

769
00:39:36,530 --> 00:39:39,300
And it's like, first, my friend told me, can you do something simple?

770
00:39:39,300 --> 00:39:39,730
He don't know.

771
00:39:39,730 --> 00:39:40,640
I can't do simple.

772
00:39:40,890 --> 00:39:42,590
And it's not that I can't do small.

773
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:43,020
I just.

774
00:39:43,705 --> 00:39:45,235
I just like to do a lot of details.

775
00:39:45,235 --> 00:39:48,715
So in order to fit in as much as I can, it kind of starts enlarging.

776
00:39:48,715 --> 00:39:51,015
Like I'll start with a small thing and then I'm like, Oh, I need

777
00:39:51,015 --> 00:39:51,875
to make this a little bigger.

778
00:39:51,875 --> 00:39:55,135
So this is, Oh, so things just kind of start to move.

779
00:39:55,245 --> 00:39:57,955
And, um, I think I just like that better.

780
00:39:57,955 --> 00:40:01,775
Like, I'm not the kind of guy that's going to make 200 of these little things

781
00:40:01,775 --> 00:40:05,275
over and over and over again, because I like to, I like to kind of do things

782
00:40:05,275 --> 00:40:08,285
different because I help grow as a person and an artist and an individual.

783
00:40:08,285 --> 00:40:12,885
So I'd rather spend six months working on something that's actually, Almost too hard

784
00:40:12,885 --> 00:40:16,435
for me to do, like, where I don't think I can do this, rather than a production

785
00:40:16,435 --> 00:40:19,555
thing that, okay, I've built these skills and I know I can do this and I can kind

786
00:40:19,555 --> 00:40:21,905
of repetitively complete this process.

787
00:40:21,995 --> 00:40:25,165
I'd rather do something that's actually scary, in the sense that

788
00:40:25,835 --> 00:40:28,715
we're gonna invest money, we're gonna invest resources, we're gonna invest

789
00:40:28,725 --> 00:40:32,840
time, and we have zero Guarantees here, you know what I'm saying?

790
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,950
So, um, those type of risks are important to take because if you fail

791
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:39,540
at like 10 of them, it's not a big deal if you can crush one of them,

792
00:40:39,540 --> 00:40:42,890
because then that's something that was impossible for you before, and that's

793
00:40:42,900 --> 00:40:44,420
now become something that's possible.

794
00:40:44,420 --> 00:40:49,790
So it kind of broadens your sphere of Um, what you can do as a person and an artist.

795
00:40:49,810 --> 00:40:52,840
And once you have that, then that's, that's the conquered realm.

796
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,930
Now you can additionally level up and do something else that you couldn't do.

797
00:40:57,090 --> 00:40:59,280
And that's kind of what drives me forward in this.

798
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,620
So, uh, the codex 32 project that I'm working on, actually

799
00:41:02,630 --> 00:41:07,140
the three separate pieces are all actually one, uh, Dice Tower.

800
00:41:07,410 --> 00:41:11,510
So the three actually combine into a triangle and you're able to put dice

801
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:15,100
right on the top and they come down and at the bottom of each, uh, codex

802
00:41:15,100 --> 00:41:17,240
32, there's like a little door window.

803
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:19,700
It's almost like a temple entrance and then the dice will come out

804
00:41:19,700 --> 00:41:23,820
of that onto the platform and yeah, I'm really excited for this.

805
00:41:23,820 --> 00:41:27,240
I think it's going to be super cool and it's just going to take me a little while

806
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:31,975
and I think like the cool thing is, is This project was like an incremental

807
00:41:31,975 --> 00:41:36,045
step because it helps me, it helps to show me that this is possible, you know?

808
00:41:36,075 --> 00:41:38,975
Because like I was saying, there's zero guarantees that I'm going to be able to do

809
00:41:38,985 --> 00:41:43,485
this vision in my head, but by taking this little incremental step, it really made

810
00:41:43,485 --> 00:41:48,725
it seem like, okay, number one, this is cool and people are interested in it too.

811
00:41:48,725 --> 00:41:51,175
So, it's not like you're spending a, you know, a year on something that

812
00:41:51,175 --> 00:41:53,495
people are like, okay, well, that's cool, you know, very interesting.

813
00:41:53,495 --> 00:41:58,070
But I got such a, such a Overwhelming response from all the people

814
00:41:58,070 --> 00:41:59,340
that I talked to at the event.

815
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,280
Um, because I think like as an artist, you always, you have your high watermarks.

816
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,190
And I think for me, it's the full node sculpture.

817
00:42:06,460 --> 00:42:10,160
Um, that's kind of like, I always would like to make

818
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,600
something that's at that level.

819
00:42:11,850 --> 00:42:14,450
And I had some people that were telling me, Oh, this is either at that.

820
00:42:14,450 --> 00:42:16,070
I even had some people that told me that was better.

821
00:42:16,070 --> 00:42:20,700
I don't know if I believe it, but, um, but it was very, It

822
00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:22,510
was very rewarding to hear that.

823
00:42:22,510 --> 00:42:25,060
Cause it's kind of like, Hey, maybe you can reach that high level.

824
00:42:25,070 --> 00:42:27,400
It's not like, Oh, once you do something great, you maybe

825
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:28,870
never get to that level again.

826
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,730
Um, it's like, no, actually, if you do work, um, you may be able

827
00:42:32,730 --> 00:42:37,690
to find a path into not only that level, but actually higher than that.

828
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,550
Um, so I think that that's what I'm trying

829
00:42:40,615 --> 00:42:44,555
No, I think this, this one is, uh, is right up there with

830
00:42:44,565 --> 00:42:45,735
the, with the full node statue.

831
00:42:45,735 --> 00:42:49,315
I, I, I mean, I don't know which one of your pieces I love the most.

832
00:42:49,325 --> 00:42:54,025
Of course, the, the infinity keys is special and close to my heart.

833
00:42:54,045 --> 00:42:58,155
And like, for me, that's, that's what I'm, I'm aiming to top.

834
00:42:58,155 --> 00:43:02,770
And I don't think I'll ever like, That thing with all of it's history

835
00:43:02,770 --> 00:43:05,970
and Infinity Day and all of this weird stuff that happened around it.

836
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:10,180
That, that, things like that just don't happen twice, like, uh.

837
00:43:10,345 --> 00:43:11,295
Oh, that's interesting.

838
00:43:11,295 --> 00:43:11,505
Yeah.

839
00:43:11,505 --> 00:43:14,365
See, I guess we go through the same stuff, even though we work in different

840
00:43:14,395 --> 00:43:18,805
mediums, it's like the same questioning yourself, like, can I like, once I've,

841
00:43:18,825 --> 00:43:22,225
once I've achieved a certain level of like, Hey, this is very interesting.

842
00:43:22,265 --> 00:43:22,955
Cool thing.

843
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:24,840
You know, can you ever do that again?

844
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,930
And I think the answer is, is obviously yes.

845
00:43:26,930 --> 00:43:28,130
It's just that it's difficult to

846
00:43:28,260 --> 00:43:31,810
the answer is, well, if you don't try, you can't.

847
00:43:32,370 --> 00:43:39,010
Like, it's certain that you can't if you don't try, so like, regardless, and you

848
00:43:39,010 --> 00:43:43,250
should never forget that you, if you had something that got a lot of attention

849
00:43:43,250 --> 00:43:45,930
because people like it, then you're lucky.

850
00:43:45,970 --> 00:43:47,715
Like, um.

851
00:43:47,925 --> 00:43:51,215
Uh, it's, uh, it's, um, a blessing.

852
00:43:51,265 --> 00:43:51,655
I mean,

853
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:52,410
Absolutely.

854
00:43:52,410 --> 00:43:52,740
Yeah.

855
00:43:52,740 --> 00:43:55,310
That I think the luck is 100 percent part of it.

856
00:43:55,310 --> 00:43:57,420
But I was going to also say, if you have something that people thought

857
00:43:57,420 --> 00:44:01,080
is interesting, um, to some degree that all came from within you,

858
00:44:01,310 --> 00:44:04,000
you know, it's like something that you were able to take from nothing

859
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,490
and kind of bring into the world.

860
00:44:05,490 --> 00:44:08,840
And then other people React to it however they react to it.

861
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:13,440
I think that's so cool with, um, the art that I do is that I can

862
00:44:14,230 --> 00:44:16,380
kind of have an idea in the morning.

863
00:44:16,450 --> 00:44:19,690
I could sketch it up on the computer, um, before lunch.

864
00:44:19,700 --> 00:44:23,290
I could go out to the laser and just cut it up and I have it

865
00:44:23,290 --> 00:44:24,910
in my hand in a couple hours.

866
00:44:24,910 --> 00:44:26,410
It's basically like a magic wand.

867
00:44:26,420 --> 00:44:30,815
You've just taken some, you know, Thought and turned it into reality.

868
00:44:31,115 --> 00:44:31,595
Um,

869
00:44:31,610 --> 00:44:32,670
Yeah, super cool.

870
00:44:32,750 --> 00:44:36,560
Yeah, yeah, that's what writing feels like, well, and we've had a lot of

871
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:41,630
conversations about creativity in general, you and I, because like, it's such a, it's

872
00:44:41,630 --> 00:44:44,100
such an odd beast to try to tame, right.

873
00:44:44,370 --> 00:44:47,760
And, uh, and I really love, like, listening to other

874
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,210
people's processes about it.

875
00:44:49,220 --> 00:44:52,950
So when you say that it came from within, like, the weirdest

876
00:44:52,950 --> 00:44:56,705
thing for me is like the best creative work I've done, ever done.

877
00:44:56,705 --> 00:45:00,125
It sort of feels like it comes from outside of me and I'm

878
00:45:00,245 --> 00:45:01,685
sort of channeling something.

879
00:45:01,685 --> 00:45:03,855
Do you have like a similar feeling?

880
00:45:03,935 --> 00:45:04,775
Absolutely.

881
00:45:04,805 --> 00:45:11,025
Yeah, I think like, um, and, and, and, and I'm, I actually heard kind of a, a

882
00:45:11,025 --> 00:45:14,175
little snippet the other day where I think Quentin Tarantino was talking to some,

883
00:45:14,265 --> 00:45:15,975
another actress and they had a similar.

884
00:45:16,415 --> 00:45:17,585
Uh, conversation.

885
00:45:17,605 --> 00:45:22,785
And, and I think that that is a common feeling because when I'm actually doing

886
00:45:22,815 --> 00:45:27,365
my best work, like you're saying, I find myself to usually be in a state where,

887
00:45:27,835 --> 00:45:30,855
you know, it's the flow state in the sense that things are kind of timeless.

888
00:45:30,855 --> 00:45:32,835
I'm actually just kind of working and things are just

889
00:45:32,835 --> 00:45:33,935
kind of falling into place.

890
00:45:34,325 --> 00:45:37,685
And, and I have, I was telling you that last night I have the two,

891
00:45:37,695 --> 00:45:39,935
the two types of, of production.

892
00:45:40,255 --> 00:45:42,345
That I usually try to settle into for art.

893
00:45:42,375 --> 00:45:45,135
Um, I always say, uh, create high edits over.

894
00:45:45,165 --> 00:45:48,845
And that basically means that, you know, like you have a space for

895
00:45:48,875 --> 00:45:51,605
each, you know, you have a space to be highly creative where you're

896
00:45:51,605 --> 00:45:53,045
not too worried about boundaries.

897
00:45:53,045 --> 00:45:56,315
You actually just kind of want to create form or shape to your idea.

898
00:45:56,705 --> 00:45:58,695
And you understand that that's not the final form.

899
00:45:58,735 --> 00:46:02,260
You know, you're just trying to To release what's within you.

900
00:46:02,260 --> 00:46:03,570
And I think that's the part that I

901
00:46:03,590 --> 00:46:04,810
think comes from without me.

902
00:46:05,150 --> 00:46:08,810
And then like, there's an ordering part of the art that I do where it's like, okay,

903
00:46:08,810 --> 00:46:10,840
now we have like a basic, a basic idea.

904
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,690
Now let's bring form to, to the shape.

905
00:46:13,970 --> 00:46:18,570
Um, so things like these sculptures were actually had to make them function first.

906
00:46:18,580 --> 00:46:20,710
So I'll do like a function over form at first.

907
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:22,960
So first you have to make sure the device functions.

908
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:24,550
If not, then it's worthless.

909
00:46:24,830 --> 00:46:28,580
So once you have the function down, then you can actually start, you

910
00:46:28,580 --> 00:46:32,430
know, Seeing what it looks like and I think like both of these both

911
00:46:32,430 --> 00:46:34,830
of these things are are relevant

912
00:46:35,275 --> 00:46:37,365
reminds me so much about music.

913
00:46:37,385 --> 00:46:41,995
And it doesn't matter if we're talking about improvising or doing

914
00:46:41,995 --> 00:46:46,565
your own songs or doing covers of whatever, like you need, you need

915
00:46:46,575 --> 00:46:49,895
some form of, uh, Orderliness.

916
00:46:50,195 --> 00:46:52,265
Uh, like you need to know what you're doing.

917
00:46:52,685 --> 00:46:53,825
But, but, but yeah.

918
00:46:53,825 --> 00:46:57,305
But you also need to be creative and like, make choices on the spot and

919
00:46:57,310 --> 00:47:03,735
listen and, and try to, uh, convey a, a feeling, which is completely different.

920
00:47:03,735 --> 00:47:07,425
I think it's like, uh, a right brain, left brain sort of thing.

921
00:47:07,700 --> 00:47:13,410
Absolutely, yeah, you know and as you say that it actually brought me to Some of the

922
00:47:13,410 --> 00:47:19,720
way that I do the art a lot of it is like that in a way and improvisation Almost

923
00:47:19,740 --> 00:47:24,455
like even to the point when I'm cutting pieces out It's very tricky because when

924
00:47:24,455 --> 00:47:28,135
I do the design work, I do it all, um, mostly I either use it in Illustrator,

925
00:47:28,135 --> 00:47:32,655
which would be entirely 2D, or I do some stuff in, uh, in Fusion, which is 3D.

926
00:47:32,945 --> 00:47:35,635
The 3D stuff, you actually get a lot better sense of what it

927
00:47:35,635 --> 00:47:38,085
looks like because the software lets you kind of roll it around.

928
00:47:38,085 --> 00:47:41,485
You can see if things fit and you can actually even do some, um, physics with

929
00:47:41,485 --> 00:47:43,035
it and I can like do gearing and things.

930
00:47:43,035 --> 00:47:43,675
It's pretty neat.

931
00:47:43,985 --> 00:47:47,585
Um, but I don't do a lot of my work in, in that in, in 3D.

932
00:47:47,945 --> 00:47:50,675
Because I'm more comfortable in Illustrator, which is a vector program,

933
00:47:50,945 --> 00:47:53,065
uh, I kind of interchange between the two.

934
00:47:53,095 --> 00:47:57,485
But like for the full node sculpture, I didn't know how to use Fusion at first.

935
00:47:57,485 --> 00:47:58,925
So, I did everything in Illustrator.

936
00:47:58,925 --> 00:48:04,625
So, all I have at the end when I'm done with the design, It's basically what you

937
00:48:04,625 --> 00:48:06,095
could think of as a coloring book page.

938
00:48:06,095 --> 00:48:08,305
It basically is just like the black and white version of it.

939
00:48:08,315 --> 00:48:11,965
And in fact, it doesn't even, it doesn't look how it would

940
00:48:11,965 --> 00:48:14,725
when it's done because it's all separated out into different pieces.

941
00:48:14,735 --> 00:48:18,085
So when you see the full node, you're actually looking at, you know, hundreds

942
00:48:18,085 --> 00:48:19,725
of pieces that I've cut individually.

943
00:48:19,725 --> 00:48:22,275
So I have each one of those as a separate design file.

944
00:48:22,475 --> 00:48:24,935
And what I'm getting at is that I have no idea what it's going to

945
00:48:24,945 --> 00:48:26,175
look like when it's put together.

946
00:48:26,195 --> 00:48:27,375
All I know is like.

947
00:48:28,490 --> 00:48:32,380
Like I have a little vision of it, but until I actually put it together,

948
00:48:32,510 --> 00:48:35,870
like when I actually get the things together, the very last piece of it

949
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,850
is always like really cool because now it's like I actually finally

950
00:48:38,850 --> 00:48:41,480
see what it looks like after all.

951
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,020
It's like your baby's born, you know, like

952
00:48:43,020 --> 00:48:47,710
you actually see what they look like and up until then it was just a dream and

953
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:49,110
there's a lot of changes that go through.

954
00:48:49,110 --> 00:48:50,710
So the improvisation part is that.

955
00:48:51,530 --> 00:48:53,680
I have this design, I'm cutting it out.

956
00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:57,060
When I'm cutting it out of the material, whether it's wood or mirror or whatever it

957
00:48:57,060 --> 00:48:58,910
is, sometimes it just doesn't look right.

958
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,560
You know, like okay, like I've cut this, it cut perfectly, I put it

959
00:49:01,570 --> 00:49:04,130
with the rest of it and it just, it just doesn't mesh together.

960
00:49:04,350 --> 00:49:05,440
These don't go together.

961
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,400
And that means that I either one, have to change the original design, so I

962
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,400
go back into Illustrator, make the changes and now, and now it works.

963
00:49:12,670 --> 00:49:14,480
Or I just have to cut a different material.

964
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,270
Like sometimes like with wood, it's extremely tricky because I like to,

965
00:49:17,270 --> 00:49:21,000
I like it to, you Have an interplay between dark wood and light wood

966
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,310
and, you know, and stained and shiny and all this different thing.

967
00:49:24,310 --> 00:49:28,120
So, um, sometimes it just, it's not cohesive, the look.

968
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:32,560
And so you end up cutting a whole bunch of pieces that just actually may be

969
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,660
cool on their own, for example, but they just don't work in the piece.

970
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:38,960
So I actually have like a little box of all the, the off cuts of things that,

971
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:40,195
hey, this would be cool if it, you know.

972
00:49:40,365 --> 00:49:44,165
It fit, but you know, it didn't, but there's actually a huge amount of

973
00:49:44,885 --> 00:49:46,495
stuff that you don't see going into it.

974
00:49:46,495 --> 00:49:48,095
And I kind of think of that as improvisation.

975
00:49:48,095 --> 00:49:50,605
It's like, you don't know until, you don't know until it's there and you're

976
00:49:50,605 --> 00:49:51,665
putting it in and you can see it.

977
00:49:51,705 --> 00:49:52,815
And it's like, okay, that doesn't work.

978
00:49:52,815 --> 00:49:53,775
And now I have to do this.

979
00:49:53,775 --> 00:49:56,905
And, and it's just a matter of kind of working with the materials that

980
00:49:56,955 --> 00:49:58,840
you have to actually bring about this.

981
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:03,460
This, uh, this form that's actually just been in your brain and now you're

982
00:50:03,460 --> 00:50:04,920
trying to translate it to the world.

983
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:09,320
And I think that's another thing with art that I try to do is, um, I can only

984
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:10,640
do something that I find interesting.

985
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,770
Cause like we were saying, it's something that I'm going to dedicate,

986
00:50:12,790 --> 00:50:14,040
you know, months of my life to.

987
00:50:14,050 --> 00:50:15,940
This is a significant amount of time in my life.

988
00:50:15,940 --> 00:50:17,870
If I waste that time, it's never coming back.

989
00:50:17,870 --> 00:50:21,100
So it has to be something important to me in order for me to dedicate

990
00:50:21,100 --> 00:50:22,260
some time to do art on it.

991
00:50:22,270 --> 00:50:26,610
So, um, and then for the most part, like a lot of these art projects

992
00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:28,850
become the most important thing to me.

993
00:50:29,140 --> 00:50:31,890
At the time, as far as, you know, outside of family and people like

994
00:50:31,890 --> 00:50:34,870
that, it's actually becomes the driving force of what's kind of

995
00:50:35,890 --> 00:50:39,780
bringing, waking me up in the morning is, you know, creating this vision.

996
00:50:40,110 --> 00:50:44,580
And I think, like, the main goal is to say, hey, I'm interested in this.

997
00:50:44,660 --> 00:50:49,120
This is why you should be interested in it and see if other people are.

998
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,570
And I think, like, a lot of people actually are interested

999
00:50:51,570 --> 00:50:52,640
in some of the things that I am.

1000
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,370
And sometimes, They would be interested, they just don't know it.

1001
00:50:56,580 --> 00:50:57,820
So you bring them into it.

1002
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:03,950
For example, the Codex 32 thing is, is a really good example, for example.

1003
00:51:03,950 --> 00:51:08,210
So, um, Codex 32 is an obscure cryptographic spec.

1004
00:51:08,350 --> 00:51:11,730
There's just not many people that are gonna encounter it in the first place.

1005
00:51:12,145 --> 00:51:14,645
If they did encounter it, they wouldn't think it was cool because

1006
00:51:14,645 --> 00:51:15,635
they don't know what it does.

1007
00:51:15,635 --> 00:51:16,645
They don't understand it.

1008
00:51:17,005 --> 00:51:19,865
And they just wouldn't take the time to learn about it.

1009
00:51:19,865 --> 00:51:22,385
And it just wouldn't come in contact with their life.

1010
00:51:22,635 --> 00:51:26,695
Even the people that made Codex 32, like, they have the problem of how

1011
00:51:26,695 --> 00:51:28,095
do you get people interested in it?

1012
00:51:28,095 --> 00:51:30,955
You know, like, like we've, we've worked really hard on this project

1013
00:51:31,395 --> 00:51:35,270
and there's probably, you know, Only a handful of people in the world

1014
00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:38,320
that will really understand the math and then maybe like another bunch of

1015
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:39,630
them that will sit there and do it.

1016
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:43,070
So, how do we get people to know that this is something cool

1017
00:51:43,070 --> 00:51:44,370
that they might want to use?

1018
00:51:44,370 --> 00:51:47,640
So, I think art is an amazingly powerful tool because, okay, I made

1019
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,260
some, uh, you know, I made the art, I made some videos of it, and now

1020
00:51:50,690 --> 00:51:56,970
basically the little video that I put 000 views, maybe almost 200, 000 by now.

1021
00:51:57,270 --> 00:52:00,310
And that's 200, 000 people that maybe they didn't watch the whole

1022
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:04,430
video but they now have been exposed to Codex 32 and they probably, I

1023
00:52:04,430 --> 00:52:07,210
would say, 199, 000 wouldn't have,

1024
00:52:07,810 --> 00:52:11,520
Yeah, yeah, probably a hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred

1025
00:52:11,540 --> 00:52:13,010
still don't understand what it is.

1026
00:52:13,270 --> 00:52:14,810
That's fine, that's fine.

1027
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,960
In fact, my wife was telling me when I was making it, she's like, I don't

1028
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,420
understand this, like, I'm sure all your Bitcoiner friends are gonna know

1029
00:52:21,420 --> 00:52:24,400
exactly what this is but this is a little much for me and I was like, no, I

1030
00:52:24,430 --> 00:52:27,660
think Codex 32 is a little esoteric for everybody but I think that's perfect.

1031
00:52:27,660 --> 00:52:27,830
I like

1032
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:28,410
that.

1033
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:32,990
So did any of the the Codex 32 developers like reach out to

1034
00:52:32,990 --> 00:52:34,430
you or talk to you about it?

1035
00:52:34,580 --> 00:52:35,380
Have you talked to him?

1036
00:52:35,750 --> 00:52:41,770
I kind of did it like I did for your book where I didn't tell anybody I was

1037
00:52:41,770 --> 00:52:43,790
doing that until it was already done.

1038
00:52:43,790 --> 00:52:50,130
So, um, I basically just did the work and then I was a little nervous to send

1039
00:52:50,130 --> 00:52:53,830
it to him because I think like it's like any kind of art that I make, I'm

1040
00:52:53,830 --> 00:52:54,990
always nervous to show it to people.

1041
00:52:54,990 --> 00:52:56,900
So, even though I had displayed it to the world.

1042
00:52:57,675 --> 00:53:00,665
I didn't actually send them a direct link, but I did, I did, um, have

1043
00:53:00,665 --> 00:53:03,885
to message them because I had a question when I was actually using the

1044
00:53:03,885 --> 00:53:08,005
Codex 32 to make some keys, I had a problem with one of the results and I

1045
00:53:08,025 --> 00:53:11,395
thought, like, I didn't understand it, so I actually had to, to message them

1046
00:53:11,425 --> 00:53:15,080
because I wanted to make sure that the, the Codex 32 actually worked and I could

1047
00:53:15,090 --> 00:53:18,060
use it if I was going to put my time and actually make an art project with it.

1048
00:53:18,060 --> 00:53:22,060
So the first time I did it, um, the interesting thing is, is if you do

1049
00:53:22,060 --> 00:53:25,400
the math wrong, when you're, when you're doing the codex 32 math, it's

1050
00:53:25,410 --> 00:53:28,860
very obvious because, um, at the end you should get a specific result.

1051
00:53:28,860 --> 00:53:32,445
It says secret share 32, and that's a factor of that, that.

1052
00:53:33,095 --> 00:53:34,745
That's 32 addition that I was saying.

1053
00:53:34,745 --> 00:53:37,625
So every, every time you multiply a letter times a number, whatever

1054
00:53:37,625 --> 00:53:38,905
it is, it gives you another result.

1055
00:53:38,905 --> 00:53:42,255
So at the end, your final result would be the secret share 32.

1056
00:53:42,705 --> 00:53:46,795
If you mess up early in the calculation, you get totally jumbled

1057
00:53:46,795 --> 00:53:48,115
stuff and you're not even close.

1058
00:53:48,425 --> 00:53:50,055
But what I did was I messed up.

1059
00:53:50,610 --> 00:53:53,360
One little character all the way towards the end of it.

1060
00:53:53,570 --> 00:53:56,640
So I got like secret share 32, but instead of the S it was

1061
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,710
a three or a five, I think.

1062
00:53:58,750 --> 00:53:59,920
And that just didn't make sense.

1063
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:03,040
And I actually did the math twice and it came up that way twice.

1064
00:54:03,490 --> 00:54:05,810
Um, so I thought, Oh, Codex 32 is broken.

1065
00:54:05,810 --> 00:54:07,940
Like what the hell this is like, how could this be?

1066
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:11,500
Um, like they're trying to perpetrate, like you can just sit here and do

1067
00:54:11,500 --> 00:54:12,700
this and I'm getting this result.

1068
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:13,690
That just doesn't make sense.

1069
00:54:13,690 --> 00:54:15,650
I was like, I guess it must be me, but I don't know.

1070
00:54:15,650 --> 00:54:16,410
You know, like you felt like

1071
00:54:17,140 --> 00:54:17,680
the first time.

1072
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:17,920
Okay.

1073
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:18,550
You get it wrong.

1074
00:54:18,670 --> 00:54:19,510
The second time.

1075
00:54:19,980 --> 00:54:20,840
That's a little weird.

1076
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,990
So I emailed the guy, I'm gonna tell him what the problem is.

1077
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:26,800
Uh, well, you know, one of the developers, cause in the, in the codex 32 book, it

1078
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,920
says, Oh, if you have questions, you know, email this, you know, Perl words need.

1079
00:54:30,260 --> 00:54:35,240
So I emailed them and they were like, Oh, okay, well, you know, your

1080
00:54:35,250 --> 00:54:37,110
problem is going to be in box 43.

1081
00:54:37,110 --> 00:54:40,640
It has to be this, unless you did one of, uh, five weird, purposeful

1082
00:54:40,670 --> 00:54:41,930
things that I'm sure you didn't do.

1083
00:54:42,210 --> 00:54:45,120
So here's how you can go back and check it.

1084
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:46,200
But basically.

1085
00:54:46,580 --> 00:54:48,220
You done fucked up your math was what he

1086
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:48,740
All right.

1087
00:54:48,780 --> 00:54:48,990
All right.

1088
00:54:49,090 --> 00:54:54,010
he was right even though I did it twice I did it incorrectly twice and that when

1089
00:54:54,010 --> 00:54:57,960
I actually did it right and he said oh, yeah the difference between H and 3 is

1090
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:03,280
a 5 or something and Bro, that was the actual difference in my fucking thing

1091
00:55:03,370 --> 00:55:06,720
It turned out to be that it was that exact letter that he said it probably was

1092
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:10,475
gonna be And I had asked like, Oh, can I just maybe like do the math backwards?

1093
00:55:10,475 --> 00:55:12,725
And then that will show me, he's like, no, you actually have to

1094
00:55:12,725 --> 00:55:16,755
go back and just, you know, look and see if, if you did it right.

1095
00:55:16,755 --> 00:55:18,825
Because he's like, you know, you didn't.

1096
00:55:19,145 --> 00:55:23,185
And, uh, and yeah, within 30 minutes I went back and I saw

1097
00:55:23,185 --> 00:55:24,525
what it was and I was amazed.

1098
00:55:24,525 --> 00:55:26,905
I was like, okay, so, um, this is what it is.

1099
00:55:26,985 --> 00:55:27,205
And.

1100
00:55:28,465 --> 00:55:30,475
Yes, it's frustrating to go through it and do it.

1101
00:55:30,475 --> 00:55:31,365
And it's not right.

1102
00:55:31,385 --> 00:55:33,055
And cause that means that you have to do it again.

1103
00:55:33,055 --> 00:55:36,175
And it takes about an hour or two to generate a key.

1104
00:55:36,385 --> 00:55:39,475
But if it's a key you're generating the whole Bitcoin in for a thousand years, you

1105
00:55:39,475 --> 00:55:41,605
know, the hour or two is, is commensurate.

1106
00:55:41,635 --> 00:55:43,505
Like you're not, I don't think that that's too much.

1107
00:55:43,505 --> 00:55:44,815
And, and you have to verify it.

1108
00:55:44,815 --> 00:55:46,885
So once you create the key, you always have to verify it.

1109
00:55:46,885 --> 00:55:49,685
You do every one twice just to be sure.

1110
00:55:50,005 --> 00:55:53,675
Um, and I messed up every key at least once when I was doing it,

1111
00:55:53,675 --> 00:55:56,715
when I was doing the keys, I made it, I made a two of three set up.

1112
00:55:57,085 --> 00:56:00,045
Each of the three keys I did the math wrong once on it.

1113
00:56:00,295 --> 00:56:05,285
And, uh, yeah, but so, so I had to do them all three times at least, but it was

1114
00:56:05,285 --> 00:56:08,085
really cool because you just get better at it as you, as you go on, it's a little

1115
00:56:08,105 --> 00:56:09,655
meditative to go through the process.

1116
00:56:09,655 --> 00:56:14,315
And, um, but the fact is like, once you hit that secret share 32, it's

1117
00:56:14,315 --> 00:56:17,435
like, damn, you know, like your keys, integrities and shared for a thousand

1118
00:56:17,435 --> 00:56:18,705
years, you don't have to worry about it.

1119
00:56:18,705 --> 00:56:20,865
If you don't hit that, then, you know, you, you messed up.

1120
00:56:21,005 --> 00:56:25,545
Yeah, I mean, if this sounds complicated, you can always just download Wallet of

1121
00:56:25,545 --> 00:56:28,015
Satoshi or buy the ETF or something.

1122
00:56:28,625 --> 00:56:29,395
exactly.

1123
00:57:29,522 --> 00:57:34,512
anyway, you mentioned this, um, the beginning of like, that's how we got

1124
00:57:34,522 --> 00:57:40,852
to know one another is when I noticed it was from one of your videos for on,

1125
00:57:40,902 --> 00:57:45,012
on Twitter, yeah, and I saw my book titled Sovereignty Through Mathematics

1126
00:57:45,012 --> 00:57:49,782
on one of the rings of the thing, and I'm super excited, and I DM'd you, and,

1127
00:57:49,782 --> 00:57:52,762
and you said that you listened to the book while you made the statue, and,

1128
00:57:52,812 --> 00:57:57,042
and, uh, that's how our friendship started, and now we've been total super

1129
00:57:57,042 --> 00:57:59,622
bros for, for years now after that, and

1130
00:57:59,757 --> 00:57:59,857
you

1131
00:57:59,862 --> 00:58:00,912
so much together.

1132
00:58:00,967 --> 00:58:03,977
you know, just like I said I was worried to kind of show these

1133
00:58:03,977 --> 00:58:05,917
Codex 32 guys the art that I did.

1134
00:58:05,917 --> 00:58:07,357
I was worried for you to see that a

1135
00:58:07,357 --> 00:58:08,737
little because I didn't know how you're going to react.

1136
00:58:08,737 --> 00:58:12,307
You might say like, hey, you put my book title in your art without asking

1137
00:58:12,307 --> 00:58:13,607
me what kind of bullshit is this.

1138
00:58:13,947 --> 00:58:16,367
But that's why I like to do it first and, you know, I

1139
00:58:16,367 --> 00:58:20,447
always say it's better to ask for forgiveness than, uh,

1140
00:58:20,547 --> 00:58:21,127
Permission.

1141
00:58:21,147 --> 00:58:21,477
Yeah.

1142
00:58:22,147 --> 00:58:22,347
Yeah.

1143
00:58:22,567 --> 00:58:24,037
forgiveness than ask permission

1144
00:58:24,037 --> 00:58:25,507
because, you know, then it's already done.

1145
00:58:25,547 --> 00:58:25,907
Like, what

1146
00:58:25,907 --> 00:58:26,407
could we do?

1147
00:58:27,007 --> 00:58:31,857
Well, Fractal, it's, it's fantastic to have you back in Europe and that we get

1148
00:58:31,857 --> 00:58:33,997
to hang out and then do stuff together.

1149
00:58:33,997 --> 00:58:40,077
I, I treasure your friendship a lot and our conversations and our

1150
00:58:40,107 --> 00:58:42,627
little stupid projects together.

1151
00:58:42,627 --> 00:58:44,157
I think it's fantastic.

1152
00:58:44,527 --> 00:58:44,977
happy I

1153
00:58:45,037 --> 00:58:45,647
to have you here.

1154
00:58:46,621 --> 00:58:49,111
Anything else on your mind you want to tell people about?

1155
00:58:49,616 --> 00:58:50,346
Um,

1156
00:58:50,517 --> 00:58:52,177
Anyway, you want to send our listeners?

1157
00:58:52,695 --> 00:58:56,035
well, I guess if you want to check me out on Twitter, I'm at Fractal Encrypt.

1158
00:58:56,035 --> 00:58:58,185
And then I also have the website that we were talking about

1159
00:58:58,185 --> 00:58:59,945
that, uh, that we had the auctions on.

1160
00:58:59,945 --> 00:59:01,525
I do have some art there that you could

1161
00:59:01,575 --> 00:59:01,855
You on

1162
00:59:01,885 --> 00:59:02,515
out anytime.

1163
00:59:02,825 --> 00:59:06,185
Uh, I am on Nostr as well, but I've only had like a couple of posts there.

1164
00:59:06,185 --> 00:59:11,495
So, um, but I do have a custom, a custom, uh, vanity and pub that I mined myself.

1165
00:59:11,495 --> 00:59:11,945
So it's a,

1166
00:59:12,295 --> 00:59:13,045
Of course you do.

1167
00:59:13,215 --> 00:59:13,775
What else?

1168
00:59:14,620 --> 00:59:16,290
yeah, yeah, yeah, I got that.

1169
00:59:16,290 --> 00:59:16,820
I got that.

1170
00:59:17,295 --> 00:59:17,585
Yeah.

1171
00:59:18,590 --> 00:59:19,580
Check me out all over.

1172
00:59:20,300 --> 00:59:21,080
Fantastic.

1173
00:59:21,170 --> 00:59:21,830
Well, yeah.

1174
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:23,530
Um, always great to have you on.

1175
00:59:23,530 --> 00:59:24,690
So Ractal and Krip,

1176
00:59:24,755 --> 00:59:24,825
a

1177
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:25,020
so

1178
00:59:25,230 --> 00:59:25,930
absolutely.

1179
00:59:25,930 --> 00:59:26,570
absolutely.

1180
00:59:27,990 --> 00:59:29,470
This has been the Freedom Footprint Show.

1181
00:59:29,860 --> 00:59:30,580
Thanks for listening.