Bullish on Bitcoin with Luke Mikic - Freedom Footprint Show 61

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I'm so bullish because I think there's seriously maybe 0.

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01 percent of the global population who actually understand Bitcoin.

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A lot of people say that there's 10 to 20 to 30 million users of Bitcoin

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and, you know, quote unquote crypto.

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But I think a very small subset of people actually understand Bitcoin.

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And when the world slowly begins to realize what Bitcoin is and why they

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desperately need it, I don't think there's going to be many Bitcoin

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available for them on exchanges for sale.

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So I am very, very bullish.

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Welcome back to the Freedom Footprint show, the Bitcoin

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philosophy show with Knut Svanholm and me, Luke the Pseudo Finn.

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Today, we turn up our energy and our bullishness with Luke Mikic, digital

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nomad and Bitcoin content creator.

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In this conversation, we get to know Luke and what makes him so bullish.

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We explore Bitcoin as a monetary technology, Business in a

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hyperbitcoinized world, and the necessity of monetary velocity.

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We also get some insight on producing bitcoin content online, and we

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debate how fast adoption should be.

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Before we jump in, a quick reminder that the best way to support the show

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If you're listening to this show as a podcast, check it out on Fountain.

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address, freedom at geyser dot fund.

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If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode

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Even if you're listening as a podcast, head over to the YouTube

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It would be a big help.

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And finally, we want to thank today's sponsors.

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AmberApp, WasabiWallet, OrangePillApp, TheBitcoinWay, and Geyser.

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All their information is in the description, we'll be talking

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a bit more about them later.

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And now, without further ado, here is Luke Mikic on the Freedom Footprint show.

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Luke, welcome to the Freedom Footprint Show.

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Thanks for joining us.

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Thank you so much for having me, lads.

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I'm ex pretty excited for this

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Oh, great to hear.

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This is, a dashing Luke Jr.

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as opposed to a Luke Jr.

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It's another Luke, and it's Luke Mickage.

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Live from where in the world exactly?

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I'm in Brazil right now, and it's,

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yeah, I, I'm pretty, I'm pretty open with my, uh, surroundings.

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I hope nobody tries a $5 wrench attack on me.

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I'm in Florian Opolis, Brazil right now.

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If anyone does want to try it.

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All right.

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And, uh, how long have you been in Brazil?

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the girlfriend and I did Rio for a month.

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We did Sao Polo for a month, and now we're in Florian Opolis for another month.

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Florinopolis.

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Sounds like Antonopolis.

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Sounds

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It does a little bit.

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It does.

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Funny enough.

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It's a, it's a little bit like it's namesake, Antonopolis.

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There's lots of Bitcoiners down here.

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It's a great little part of Brazil.

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Um, Polish is a city in, in Greek, right?

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Acropolis, all this mm-hmm.

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. And you're one of the people in the world who are actually more bullish than I am.

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aren't you or are in a race?

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let's do it.

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A friendly competition.

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I reckon we can get pretty bullish today.

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Yeah, we were having a small chat about who the most bullish Luke

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is, and we, it's probably you.

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So.

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broils on yet?

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We had Broyles on, uh, like half a year ago or something, right?

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maybe even earlier than

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Now.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Uh, when he was first kind of out in the, in the scene and, and all

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this, and around the same time you were coming on our radar too.

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And, uh, one thing just hasn't led to another quite soon enough.

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So super glad to have you here, first of all.

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And, can you give us the TLDR on your story and your Bitcoin story and why

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you're more bullish than Luke Broyles?

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Thanks.

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um, okay.

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I'll try to keep it as short as I can.

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Uh, Bitcoin came across my radar.

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When I was 19 at the time, I was at university studying a double

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major in maths and chemistry.

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I went down the rabbit hole pretty hard in three weeks, listened to just about every,

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episode and interview that Max Kaiser and Andreas Antonopoulos ever recorded.

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Uh, I learned enough about.

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Bitcoin in three weeks to come to the conclusion that I was not

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going to go back to university.

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So I took a gap year.

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I started my own personal training business with the sole goal, just to

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free up more time to learn about Bitcoin.

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That was 2017.

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And since then, I've just been talking shit about Bitcoin full

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time online for the past, you know, past three to four years.

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It took me a couple of years to wave through the, uh, the sea of

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shit coins there in 2018 and 2019.

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I learned my lessons and now I'm just trying to tell everybody.

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about the, uh, the Bitcoin gospel, because I do believe it's probably the

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biggest technological revolution we have ever discovered as a civilization.

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I think it's bigger than fire.

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I think it's bigger than the wheel.

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I think it's bigger than the internet.

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Uh, so that is potentially why I could be more bullish than

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my namesake, Luke Broyles.

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It could just be our youth.

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We are both in our twenties.

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We're both pretty young and crazy, but I'm pretty bullish myself.

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And I'm pretty excited to explore that rabbit hole with you lads today.

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Uh oh, I've just, uh, I've just graduated from my 20s, so yeah, I guess that's why

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I'm not nearly as bullish as you guys.

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Sorry, Knut, go ahead.

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Yeah, I'm just curious, is this radar of yours still in your possession,

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or did you sell it for sats?

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I've sold everything for sats.

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You can see I'm standing.

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There's no chairs behind me, lads.

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Everything's sold for sats.

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There's even a hole in the wall there.

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Exactly, have a look at it.

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We sold your TV as well as your radar, I guess,

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It's all gone.

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good to hear.

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I mean, there's not much use for a radar on dry land anyway.

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a good thing you picked up Bitcoin though.

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Yeah.

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So, so give us, a bit more depth on why you're so bullish about Bitcoin.

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Like why, what makes you see this in a way that other people don't?

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I know some people do, which this equation on my t shirt may allude to, my stance on

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bullishness, but, what does Bitcoin mean to you and why do you love it so much?

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I don't even know where to begin.

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I, I, I think just the fact that we've discovered digital scarcity,

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I think that's going to be an enormous, mind to F excuse my French.

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I don't want to get you guys kicked off YouTube, but I think when people

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come to realize that there's only 21 million Bitcoin, ever available for

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sale, I think you're going to see potentially the biggest supply squeeze,

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uh, in financial market history.

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I don't even think it's going to be close to any sort of a competition,

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but there's going to become a day in the future where every single person on

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planet earth is trying to buy Bitcoin.

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And today there's only 2 million Bitcoin sitting on exchanges.

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So I think a large majority of that 21 million supply is not going to

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move for the next hundred years.

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It's going to flow into the hands of people like Michael Saylor, who in

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his own words, if we believe Michael Saylor, I know some people don't,

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but I personally do, if you believe Michael Saylor, he's not going to

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sell his coins for a hundred years.

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There's, you know, Michael Saylor sitting on 150, 000 coins.

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There's

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No, it's a, he's going to die with them.

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At least that's what he alluded to on our show here.

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Luke, uh, Luke, right.

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Too many

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Please elaborate.

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Yep.

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is gonna get confusing if you just say Luke, Knut.

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You're Luke, our guest Luke, you're Luke for today, I can be something else,

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You can be Finn, other people have called you Finn because of the pseudo fin I call.

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Can I call you danger because I know that's your middle name?

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Yes, Danger is my middle name,

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Good,

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you could call me crazy hair Luke, that might be a little bit easier.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So, Michael Sailor was on the show and he said something that he has

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alluded to in other shows as well.

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What he said was like the most altruistic thing a person can do is

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die with their bitcoins in their heads, uh, because then you take them off

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market forever and you increase the scarcity of the, uh, of the thing.

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So, you help everyone on earth instead of giving them to a select few people,

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you give them to everyone, or you give the value of the scarcity To everyone.

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Uh, so what are your thoughts when you hear that?

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I feel like there's going to be a growing cohort of people

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who see Bitcoin the same way.

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I think all three of us on this call are probably going to do something similar.

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I know the small amount of coins that I sit on won't be

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moving for many, many decades.

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They'll be passed on to my future generations.

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I don't even have kids yet.

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I don't even have a wife yet.

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Sorry, honey.

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She's in the lounge room.

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She can hear me say that.

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There will be a ring coming one day.

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Uh, but I mean, like I, I'm not moving my Bitcoin for a long time.

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And I, I think the.

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10 20 or 30 thousands psychopaths on Twitter probably feel

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about Bitcoin the same way.

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And I'm so bullish because I think there's seriously maybe 0.

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01 percent of the global population who actually understand Bitcoin.

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A lot of people say that there's 10 to 20 to 30 million users of Bitcoin

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and, you know, quote unquote crypto.

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But I think a very small subset of people actually understand Bitcoin.

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And when the world slowly begins to realize what Bitcoin is and why they

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desperately need it, I don't think there's going to be many Bitcoin

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available for them on exchanges for sale.

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So I am very, very bullish.

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No, I totally agree.

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everyone underestimates this upcoming satsqueeze.

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that's what Adam Beck told us that, according to him and his interpretation

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of glass node data, there's a million or a million addresses with around one

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coin in them that they think are, uh, D CERs that have accumulated, that had

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the target of one coin and like, Only of like 2 million can do that maybe.

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But then it gets tricky because there just aren't enough coins and the people

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who already have one coin, many of them are going to want another coin.

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And, and also if people do the altruistic move and die with the coins.

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I mean we idiots here we are the first generation of Bitcoiners.

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And we're going to squander them away in droves, like there's not going to

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be much left for future generations.

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So whatever's left is good.

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It's still going to be divisible, but especially, on the Lightning Network

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and, and such like to, , infinitesimal parts, but they're going to be so scarce.

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So, just the same demand as now over a long enough time period.

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It also leads to that Heinz ketchup bottle effect, like gradually then suddenly.

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is that the way you see it too?

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Yeah.

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I think like, I think something in Bitcoin fundamentally changed three years ago.

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Like for the first time in Bitcoin's life, coins actually started

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leaving exchanges in March of 2020.

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for the first 10 years, that amount of Bitcoin sitting on exchanges only grew.

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So it went from zero to like 3 million.

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Today, we're sitting at around 2 million ish coins sitting on exchanges.

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So in the past three years, you've literally just watched a million

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coins disappear off exchanges.

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We don't know where they're going.

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All we know from that on chain data you mentioned there, Knut, is it's

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going to wallets who don't have a history of selling their Bitcoin.

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So I think like that supply squeeze, that ketchup bottle some sort

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of a squeeze that he's coming.

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I think it's going to come pretty, pretty soon.

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Uh, like if you extrapolate forwards the past three years of data,

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you've got no Bitcoin sitting on exchanges in around 2028, 2029.

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I mean, there's only 2 million Bitcoin sitting on exchanges.

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Um, and I've got a thesis that we're going to see some sort of billionaire FOMO.

243
00:11:08,281 --> 00:11:12,691
So Michael Saylor's got 150, 000 coins and right now there's only enough

244
00:11:12,711 --> 00:11:16,821
Bitcoin sitting on exchanges for like 10 or 11 or maybe 12 Michael Saylor

245
00:11:16,841 --> 00:11:21,611
to also accumulate 150, 000 coins that he holds between himself and

246
00:11:21,611 --> 00:11:23,761
his, micro strategy corporate entity.

247
00:11:23,911 --> 00:11:26,561
So you've got enough Bitcoin for 12 Michael Saylor and

248
00:11:26,561 --> 00:11:27,471
there's like, uh, what is it?

249
00:11:27,471 --> 00:11:31,431
Is there 50, 000 public companies and something like 3 to 4, 000

250
00:11:31,451 --> 00:11:36,571
billionaires all potentially fighting over 2, 000 Bitcoin left on exchanges?

251
00:11:37,556 --> 00:11:41,946
Yeah, this, this reminds me of a video we made a couple of years back about the

252
00:11:42,236 --> 00:11:47,286
S curve adoption of new technologies, where you have this ketchup effect,

253
00:11:47,316 --> 00:11:52,356
and then there's a saturation at the other end of the S, where it levels out.

254
00:11:52,796 --> 00:11:57,336
So like the TV or the smartphone or the internet, they all

255
00:11:57,336 --> 00:11:59,016
had S shaped adoption curves.

256
00:11:59,016 --> 00:12:02,189
And, it went very quickly for a short period.

257
00:12:02,189 --> 00:12:06,759
And then when everyone's, uh, basically everyone on earth is on board and has

258
00:12:06,759 --> 00:12:08,609
a smartphone, then it levels out again.

259
00:12:08,906 --> 00:12:12,046
and that is probably the case for Bitcoin as well.

260
00:12:12,676 --> 00:12:17,329
Uh, but the, the, the thing we argued for in that video is like, we don't really

261
00:12:17,329 --> 00:12:21,269
see that happening to the Bitcoin's price though, that will not follow an S curve.

262
00:12:21,819 --> 00:12:23,809
It would just continue to go up.

263
00:12:23,839 --> 00:12:27,956
And I've been thinking this over so many times and it's kind of hard to

264
00:12:27,956 --> 00:12:31,506
wrap your head around because like, there's something to be said for in

265
00:12:31,506 --> 00:12:35,196
a hyperbitcoinized world where the only thing that is used as a medium of

266
00:12:35,196 --> 00:12:38,056
exchange between people at all is Bitcoin.

267
00:12:38,476 --> 00:12:43,359
then Bitcoin will only reflect the total purchasing power of society.

268
00:12:43,989 --> 00:12:48,479
And that's expected to go up by five to 15 percent per year.

269
00:12:48,479 --> 00:12:51,089
So it is still appreciated 15%.

270
00:12:51,699 --> 00:12:56,659
But think that through one step further after hyperbitcoinization,

271
00:12:58,869 --> 00:13:01,039
we have a global free markets.

272
00:13:01,377 --> 00:13:05,297
based on sound money, no interventionism, nothing.

273
00:13:05,697 --> 00:13:10,644
And you add to that AIs and stuff, like it's just unstoppable what the

274
00:13:10,644 --> 00:13:14,044
human race can do with that power.

275
00:13:14,054 --> 00:13:15,037
Like, I don't think.

276
00:13:15,372 --> 00:13:21,592
15 percent growth is a given just because that's the case now when we measure

277
00:13:21,602 --> 00:13:24,782
bullshit metrics like BNP, GDP and stuff.

278
00:13:24,872 --> 00:13:29,942
BNP is the Swedish abbreviation, but it's GDP, which includes

279
00:13:30,052 --> 00:13:33,842
medication and stuff so the actual.

280
00:13:34,547 --> 00:13:38,587
Advancement of civilization will accelerate obviously, because the

281
00:13:38,587 --> 00:13:43,047
market is more well oiled, very much like I view the current fiat

282
00:13:43,197 --> 00:13:48,167
paradigm, global market as a dog on three legs at best, because there's

283
00:13:48,187 --> 00:13:52,857
interventionism everywhere, and therefore resource misallocation everywhere.

284
00:13:53,019 --> 00:13:54,181
what are your views on that?

285
00:13:54,241 --> 00:13:59,111
Will Bitcoin have an only up point where there's only upwards after that

286
00:13:59,111 --> 00:14:01,791
point and it cannot ever go down again.

287
00:14:01,891 --> 00:14:02,821
Like, how do you see that?

288
00:14:03,736 --> 00:14:07,536
Yeah, I think I actually, so I wrote an article on this topic in 2021 saying,

289
00:14:07,536 --> 00:14:10,216
look, Bitcoin's a monetary technology.

290
00:14:10,516 --> 00:14:13,426
If we think it's a technology that's going to go mainstream, it should follow

291
00:14:13,866 --> 00:14:16,256
this kind of S curve adoption path.

292
00:14:16,506 --> 00:14:20,646
And I remember specifically quoting that video that you guys made, uh, over

293
00:14:20,646 --> 00:14:25,436
on Ione Apperberg's YouTube channel, because it influenced my thinking a lot.

294
00:14:25,766 --> 00:14:29,826
And I think you guys actually said, no, Bitcoin is not an S curve.

295
00:14:30,026 --> 00:14:33,436
An S curve assumes that your adoption's actually going to level off at some stage.

296
00:14:33,776 --> 00:14:37,186
But as you kind of alluded to, Bitcoin's a monetary J curve.

297
00:14:37,236 --> 00:14:41,386
It's going up forever because Bitcoin is the savings account of the world.

298
00:14:41,486 --> 00:14:44,416
If the world continues to become more and more productive into the

299
00:14:44,416 --> 00:14:48,586
future, where are those continued productivity gains going to be stored?

300
00:14:48,886 --> 00:14:51,226
They're not going to be stored in some speculative tech

301
00:14:51,236 --> 00:14:52,456
stock like they are today.

302
00:14:52,646 --> 00:14:55,946
They're going to be stored in the world's dominant store of value, which is money.

303
00:14:55,946 --> 00:14:59,616
It's going to be stored in Bitcoin and Bitcoin is going to go up forever.

304
00:14:59,756 --> 00:15:04,426
So I think like, I think the biggest meme in Bitcoin today in 2023 is this

305
00:15:04,426 --> 00:15:06,606
idea of diminishing returns theory.

306
00:15:06,816 --> 00:15:10,346
Lots of people have drawn these cute little models over the past 12 years.

307
00:15:10,346 --> 00:15:13,256
And they've said, Oh, look, you know, Bitcoin's giving diminishing

308
00:15:13,256 --> 00:15:15,266
returns every four year bull market.

309
00:15:15,446 --> 00:15:18,626
And I think all of these stupid models like that are going to be absolutely.

310
00:15:19,686 --> 00:15:22,756
Um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

311
00:15:22,756 --> 00:15:25,359
uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

312
00:15:25,359 --> 00:15:28,252
uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

313
00:15:28,252 --> 00:15:31,145
uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

314
00:15:31,145 --> 00:15:34,038
uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

315
00:15:34,038 --> 00:15:35,846
uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

316
00:15:39,426 --> 00:15:51,346
uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh Bitcoin's an all or nothing binary bet, the same way

317
00:15:52,726 --> 00:15:56,926
CKE does, and I think it either becomes the dominant store of value for the

318
00:15:56,926 --> 00:15:58,626
world or it fails and it goes to zero.

319
00:15:58,976 --> 00:16:01,426
Um, so I think it's really an all or nothing kind of bet here.

320
00:16:01,907 --> 00:16:02,377
Yeah.

321
00:16:02,427 --> 00:16:05,307
That's so fascinating to think about.

322
00:16:05,487 --> 00:16:07,081
Because Bitcoin is.

323
00:16:07,571 --> 00:16:11,071
Deflationary, especially in the long run, like there's no way around that,

324
00:16:11,071 --> 00:16:13,031
especially as we start losing sats.

325
00:16:13,791 --> 00:16:17,301
Because after 2140, it's absolutely deflationary because

326
00:16:17,311 --> 00:16:19,124
more sats lost than found.

327
00:16:19,124 --> 00:16:19,174
Already,

328
00:16:21,237 --> 00:16:24,317
there's like 92 percent of the supply or something that have

329
00:16:24,787 --> 00:16:25,967
already been found, right?

330
00:16:26,384 --> 00:16:28,214
So most of the coins are already out there.

331
00:16:28,284 --> 00:16:32,694
And the remaining million, it's going to be mined over more than a hundred

332
00:16:32,694 --> 00:16:37,284
years, which is so weird to think about.

333
00:16:38,199 --> 00:16:41,589
the Keynesian argument is that deflation is bad because you don't

334
00:16:41,589 --> 00:16:46,249
get the velocity of money because people will spend less and they see

335
00:16:46,279 --> 00:16:48,839
every transaction as creating value.

336
00:16:49,124 --> 00:16:53,157
Which I think is flawed, because that doesn't take into account that

337
00:16:53,467 --> 00:16:57,705
people in that type of environment, in an inflationary environment, they

338
00:16:57,705 --> 00:17:00,995
will prioritize quantity over quality.

339
00:17:01,425 --> 00:17:05,665
So what Bitcoin does is it reverses that, uh, completely.

340
00:17:05,935 --> 00:17:07,450
I always like to say that it's...

341
00:17:07,930 --> 00:17:09,730
The one divided by clown world.

342
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,520
It's the literal inverse of the clown world over consumerist

343
00:17:13,650 --> 00:17:17,650
bullshit world where politicized everywhere thing we're living in now.

344
00:17:18,304 --> 00:17:22,554
so what that means is that everyone on earth will know the preciousness of

345
00:17:22,564 --> 00:17:26,534
their bitcoins and therefore they will be very careful with spending them.

346
00:17:26,834 --> 00:17:31,294
But envisioning what a hyperbitcoinized world actually looks like is

347
00:17:31,334 --> 00:17:36,309
so weird Everyone's stack will need to diminish over time.

348
00:17:36,649 --> 00:17:40,158
Very few people will actually be able to have black numbers

349
00:17:40,158 --> 00:17:41,158
on their balance sheets.

350
00:17:41,158 --> 00:17:43,658
Everyone's stack will go down over time.

351
00:17:43,968 --> 00:17:47,918
Still, their purchasing power can still go up since the value of the coins go up.

352
00:17:48,114 --> 00:17:50,768
or the value of everything else, then the coins go up.

353
00:17:50,768 --> 00:17:55,208
So I imagine a world where you can start a company, which by the way in the future is

354
00:17:55,213 --> 00:17:57,008
nothing but a telegram group or something.

355
00:17:57,248 --> 00:18:00,428
You don't really need every, all these other structures that are around

356
00:18:00,548 --> 00:18:04,898
companies, uh, legal structures and, you know, government imposed stuff.

357
00:18:04,932 --> 00:18:09,342
you just need a bunch of people who talk to one another to start a business and.

358
00:18:10,657 --> 00:18:16,610
I even see a scenario when people start businesses not to make

359
00:18:16,610 --> 00:18:22,380
more bitcoins, but to make their stacks diminish a little slower.

360
00:18:22,780 --> 00:18:27,730
it's like the derivative of the, the gain curve and not the gains themselves.

361
00:18:28,130 --> 00:18:29,950
So, there's so much to explore there.

362
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:31,120
Have you given a.

363
00:18:31,570 --> 00:18:35,380
A lot of thought to a post hyperbitcoinization scenario,

364
00:18:35,380 --> 00:18:37,130
what that actually means.

365
00:18:38,450 --> 00:18:41,570
Yeah, I think it's gonna, like you say, I think it's gonna be

366
00:18:41,570 --> 00:18:42,950
the antithesis of CloudMortar.

367
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:44,710
Everything's gonna look so much different.

368
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,120
Today everybody's gorging on debt.

369
00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:49,560
There's like 400 trillion dollars of debt around the world.

370
00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:53,200
On a Bitcoin standard, I see that shrinking by 90%.

371
00:18:53,690 --> 00:18:56,920
Like it's just going to be really difficult to take out

372
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,820
debt in a form of money that's appreciating at such a rapid rate.

373
00:19:01,225 --> 00:19:05,125
Even if we're ultra conservative, and let's say Bitcoin's only appreciating at

374
00:19:05,155 --> 00:19:10,645
say like 5 or 10 percent per year, if you take out debt, you're going to have

375
00:19:10,645 --> 00:19:12,965
to outpace that appreciation of Bitcoin.

376
00:19:13,165 --> 00:19:16,545
You need to start a business that right out the bat is appreciating at

377
00:19:16,910 --> 00:19:19,190
Faster than 5 or 10 percent per year.

378
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:20,260
And that's very difficult.

379
00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:22,820
How long has it taken Tesla to become profitable?

380
00:19:22,820 --> 00:19:24,210
I don't think they're even profitable.

381
00:19:24,330 --> 00:19:27,880
I think they rely only on government handouts and government subsidies.

382
00:19:28,220 --> 00:19:30,780
So some of the most successful and biggest companies around the world

383
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,097
today, only have the market cap that they do because they've been able to.

384
00:19:34,097 --> 00:19:35,067
Feast on this debt.

385
00:19:35,087 --> 00:19:37,067
They've been extraordinarily wasteful.

386
00:19:37,297 --> 00:19:40,497
They've been pursuing ideas that simply aren't profitable and the free market

387
00:19:40,497 --> 00:19:44,907
doesn't really, uh, you know, want, they don't desire the products they're making,

388
00:19:44,907 --> 00:19:49,237
like Budweiser, for example, all of the ridiculous marketing that they're doing

389
00:19:49,247 --> 00:19:51,247
around the world is completely uneconomic.

390
00:19:51,307 --> 00:19:53,457
They can only do it because there's a money printer.

391
00:19:53,457 --> 00:19:55,437
They can cozy up to and get endless debt.

392
00:19:55,717 --> 00:19:58,377
So I think there's going to be like a debt is probably the biggest thing.

393
00:19:58,752 --> 00:20:01,752
Potentially going to flip on a Bitcoin standard, and that's going to

394
00:20:01,752 --> 00:20:03,312
change everybody's time preference.

395
00:20:03,682 --> 00:20:06,792
Uh, you're going to have to change the way you think about money, and you're

396
00:20:06,792 --> 00:20:10,592
going to have to change the way you think about how you allocate your money and

397
00:20:10,592 --> 00:20:12,672
your savings, um, on a Bitcoin standard.

398
00:20:13,857 --> 00:20:19,507
Yeah, Budweiser might not be gay, but it's still like making love in a canoe.

399
00:20:20,397 --> 00:20:21,957
Like, it's fucking close to water.

400
00:20:22,462 --> 00:20:22,762
Yeah,

401
00:20:23,282 --> 00:20:24,312
Yeah, so...

402
00:20:24,755 --> 00:20:28,545
I'd like to explain another one of my current thoughts around what Bitcoin

403
00:20:28,545 --> 00:20:33,574
is, maybe you've heard it before that when you really think deep and

404
00:20:33,584 --> 00:20:37,619
hard about what owning a Bitcoin means or possessing a Bitcoin means,

405
00:20:38,019 --> 00:20:40,269
it's nothing but Keeping a secret.

406
00:20:40,728 --> 00:20:45,478
it's either the location of a Bitcoin private key or the actual private key

407
00:20:45,478 --> 00:20:49,848
itself, but it doesn't really matter you've hidden it properly, the secret

408
00:20:49,928 --> 00:20:55,888
is the Bitcoin, like whoever has that secret in their brains, has the Bitcoins

409
00:20:55,988 --> 00:20:58,618
and only brains can keep secrets.

410
00:20:58,718 --> 00:21:03,875
So, in effect, that means that we are our bitcoins, everyone in bitcoin is the

411
00:21:03,875 --> 00:21:11,475
bitcoins, and also if you think about miners and nodes, the computers used in

412
00:21:11,475 --> 00:21:16,455
mining and in just running a bitcoin node Each and every computer is just a fancy

413
00:21:16,455 --> 00:21:19,105
abacus that helps us, with calculation.

414
00:21:19,825 --> 00:21:22,555
So the, the ASIC is not the miner.

415
00:21:22,605 --> 00:21:25,865
It's the guy owning the ASIC and deciding to run the software.

416
00:21:26,625 --> 00:21:29,745
And the node is not the, it's not the Raspberry Pi.

417
00:21:29,805 --> 00:21:33,888
It's the guy who owns the Raspberry Pi and runs Umbra or whatever, or Bitcoin Core.

418
00:21:34,335 --> 00:21:37,745
So every participant in Bitcoin is those Bitcoins.

419
00:21:38,205 --> 00:21:42,435
And to me, this is one of the more philosophical rabbit holes

420
00:21:42,435 --> 00:21:46,565
to fall into in this, because that means we run this mathematical

421
00:21:46,615 --> 00:21:48,475
experiment in the back of our heads.

422
00:21:49,105 --> 00:21:55,335
And somehow it unlocks a way for us to, not only transact, but to interact

423
00:21:55,335 --> 00:22:00,603
with one another in ways that are, Possible to explore pre Bitcoin.

424
00:22:01,303 --> 00:22:05,563
So, so, so humanity gets into a whole new level and, and us three, for

425
00:22:05,563 --> 00:22:10,383
instance, we're all incentivized to help one another because we're Bitcoiners.

426
00:22:10,383 --> 00:22:14,673
And we know if we help other Bitcoiners succeed with whatever their

427
00:22:15,203 --> 00:22:19,413
endeavor is, we help Bitcoin succeed because we help other Bitcoiners.

428
00:22:19,893 --> 00:22:23,163
And it's not only that we, we all want Bitcoin to succeed.

429
00:22:23,213 --> 00:22:26,523
So we all want to, you know, quote unquote, pump our bags.

430
00:22:27,108 --> 00:22:30,878
You know, the power of hodling and the power of a low time preference.

431
00:22:31,275 --> 00:22:35,605
So we're all incentivized to keep a low time preference and help one another.

432
00:22:35,838 --> 00:22:41,438
And what I see that leading to is a world where money gets used less and less.

433
00:22:41,953 --> 00:22:45,073
Because everyone's incentivized to just be awesome to one another

434
00:22:45,663 --> 00:22:50,363
without exchanging anything, because everyone knows how precious sats are.

435
00:22:50,863 --> 00:22:54,493
And do you even need to transact at all if you could just help the

436
00:22:54,493 --> 00:22:57,463
other guy and you know you'll get something back sooner or later.

437
00:22:57,463 --> 00:23:01,056
So like, these are the more ephemeral thoughts I have around this.

438
00:23:02,021 --> 00:23:02,811
What are your thoughts?

439
00:23:04,041 --> 00:23:06,551
I think it's a really interesting rabbit hole to explore.

440
00:23:06,551 --> 00:23:09,031
It's something I haven't given a whole bunch of thought, but I think

441
00:23:09,031 --> 00:23:10,831
it's like Bitcoin takes money back.

442
00:23:10,876 --> 00:23:14,646
To some of its earliest roots, like money has always been a ledger.

443
00:23:14,716 --> 00:23:18,446
And back in the early days when we were like hunters and gatherers,

444
00:23:18,446 --> 00:23:21,546
just slowly discovering what money was, it was a lot more like that.

445
00:23:21,556 --> 00:23:22,856
It was a lot more communal.

446
00:23:23,106 --> 00:23:26,126
It was more like a reputation based, small community where

447
00:23:26,126 --> 00:23:27,386
you do a favor for someone else.

448
00:23:27,386 --> 00:23:30,071
and They repay you and do a favor back to you.

449
00:23:30,191 --> 00:23:32,811
And so I think Bitcoin is going to completely flip,

450
00:23:33,021 --> 00:23:34,411
how we think about money.

451
00:23:34,411 --> 00:23:38,201
That's something I've never thought about how, , that's going to kind of decrease

452
00:23:38,211 --> 00:23:41,511
the transactions because we're just going to want to do favors for each other.

453
00:23:41,511 --> 00:23:44,581
That's a really interesting rabbit hole that I personally need to

454
00:23:44,581 --> 00:23:46,431
think about a little bit more, but.

455
00:23:46,776 --> 00:23:50,916
Uh, like you say, when you are your Bitcoin, that changes not only how you

456
00:23:50,956 --> 00:23:55,966
interact with some peers in your society and your community around you, but it

457
00:23:55,966 --> 00:23:59,706
also changes like the logic of violence, like gone are the days that you can just

458
00:24:00,096 --> 00:24:04,146
storm into someone's home, kill them and take all their wealth, whether it's stored

459
00:24:04,146 --> 00:24:10,906
in gold, fiat, or a safe or stupid Rolex watches, like shit boy crypto has, like

460
00:24:10,906 --> 00:24:12,856
now to actually get somebody's wealth,

461
00:24:12,951 --> 00:24:13,761
by crapto.

462
00:24:14,426 --> 00:24:15,466
Yeah, I like that.

463
00:24:16,186 --> 00:24:16,656
That's great.

464
00:24:16,706 --> 00:24:17,686
Shit boy, crap though.

465
00:24:18,216 --> 00:24:20,496
Yeah, Bitcoin completely changes all of that.

466
00:24:20,586 --> 00:24:24,186
For thousands of years, you could just roll into another city, kill

467
00:24:24,186 --> 00:24:27,156
everybody and take their gold and you've got all of their wealth.

468
00:24:27,536 --> 00:24:29,416
Gone are the days of that on a Bitcoin standard.

469
00:24:29,436 --> 00:24:31,976
You actually need to get the secret out of their head.

470
00:24:32,326 --> 00:24:35,066
Sure, some people might give up their secret if they're tortured

471
00:24:35,066 --> 00:24:36,666
enough, but I know some people won't.

472
00:24:36,686 --> 00:24:36,876
And it's...

473
00:24:37,591 --> 00:24:41,351
If you store your Bitcoin correctly in a multi signature setup, it's actually

474
00:24:41,351 --> 00:24:43,391
impossible to get somebody's wealth.

475
00:24:43,965 --> 00:24:48,145
Yeah, just from a game theory perspective there, you get

476
00:24:48,155 --> 00:24:49,825
half if you torture someone.

477
00:24:50,215 --> 00:24:54,725
Like, half the time you kill them and you get nothing, and half the time you

478
00:24:54,725 --> 00:25:00,105
get everything, or like, I think there's some game theoretical argument to be

479
00:25:00,105 --> 00:25:05,105
made for the average being half over time given enough transactions, or threats.

480
00:25:06,185 --> 00:25:07,275
think that's a good average.

481
00:25:07,335 --> 00:25:08,165
I think that's a good average.

482
00:25:08,195 --> 00:25:12,139
I think that average will skew the further we move on to a Bitcoin setup.

483
00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:15,380
Standard because I'm hopeful that more and more people, uh, will

484
00:25:15,380 --> 00:25:17,720
adopt superior, security practices.

485
00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:21,540
Like I'm pretty comfortable doxxing my full name out there, because I have

486
00:25:21,545 --> 00:25:23,250
a pretty secure multisignature setup.

487
00:25:23,255 --> 00:25:25,440
Like if someone wants my Bitcoin, all right, put me on

488
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,640
a flight, get cozy with me.

489
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,980
'cause you're gonna have to take me to Australia as well as a few

490
00:25:28,980 --> 00:25:32,880
other countries who actually get all of my private keys to move Bitcoin

491
00:25:32,910 --> 00:25:34,410
outta my Multisignature wallet.

492
00:25:34,660 --> 00:25:35,680
And I think as.

493
00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:36,920
Technology advances.

494
00:25:36,990 --> 00:25:41,590
And as that becomes a lot more easier and accessible for the everyday person

495
00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:45,550
to do, I'm pretty hopeful that that's going to actually decrease the amount

496
00:25:45,550 --> 00:25:47,480
of violence, um, on a Bitcoin standard.

497
00:25:47,540 --> 00:25:50,100
So I'm super bullish on what Bitcoin is going to do.

498
00:25:50,660 --> 00:25:55,240
Yeah, I tried to put all the gist of that into a sentence of one of my books.

499
00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:00,077
And I think it is, uh, the line is, when you cannot know how much another

500
00:26:00,077 --> 00:26:04,428
person owns and you cannot take it by force, there's no other way for

501
00:26:04,428 --> 00:26:07,688
you to extract value from that person than giving something of value back.

502
00:26:08,277 --> 00:26:11,887
And this is a key point when you cannot know how much another person owns,

503
00:26:12,187 --> 00:26:17,507
because right now it is true that it's impossible for anyone on earth to know how

504
00:26:17,527 --> 00:26:21,797
much bitcoins anyone else actually owns.

505
00:26:22,317 --> 00:26:27,939
You may be able to do some chain anal stuff and find out a part of that

506
00:26:28,179 --> 00:26:33,459
person's bitcoin stack, but you cannot prove that you don't own a bitcoin.

507
00:26:33,469 --> 00:26:37,982
Like, since it's just keeping a secret, There's no way of knowing how many other

508
00:26:37,982 --> 00:26:43,015
people know that secret, or if a person knows more than one secret, there's no way

509
00:26:43,015 --> 00:26:47,831
of knowing, which, like you say, alters the shelling point of violence, violence

510
00:26:47,831 --> 00:26:52,561
is not as profitable as it used to be, and it will never go back, it will only

511
00:26:52,561 --> 00:26:54,331
be less and less profitable over time.

512
00:26:54,965 --> 00:26:55,885
That's how I see the world.

513
00:26:56,225 --> 00:26:58,695
That's how I think Bitcoin standards going to change things.

514
00:26:58,695 --> 00:26:59,725
I think it's going to take time.

515
00:26:59,735 --> 00:27:05,895
Like you say, over time, I can see a pretty turbulent path that we may

516
00:27:05,935 --> 00:27:07,555
take towards a Bitcoin standard.

517
00:27:07,555 --> 00:27:09,595
I think a lot of people might not be prepared for.

518
00:27:10,125 --> 00:27:13,875
That's personally why I'm never going to be living in a G7 Western nation

519
00:27:13,885 --> 00:27:17,295
state for the next few years until the turbulence kind of blows over.

520
00:27:17,335 --> 00:27:19,015
I won't be returning back to the beach.

521
00:27:19,110 --> 00:27:24,050
Open air prison of Australia, because I can see potentially a scenario unfolding

522
00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:27,830
for public figures like ourselves, where the government comes pretty hard at us.

523
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,950
Again, it's only a hypothetical scenario.

524
00:27:30,090 --> 00:27:31,630
There's lots of possibilities.

525
00:27:31,630 --> 00:27:33,440
Nobody knows how the future is going to play out.

526
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,900
But again, I do agree with you there, Knut.

527
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,696
I think over time, violence is going Bitcoin standard.

528
00:27:40,246 --> 00:27:45,616
Yeah, so there are a lot of people that argue for a slow transition into a Bitcoin

529
00:27:45,626 --> 00:27:51,350
standard because of this turbulence that might arise, but I think that's a case

530
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:57,680
to be made for a really, really rapid Bitcoin adoption phase since All it does

531
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,730
is remove violence from the equation.

532
00:28:00,740 --> 00:28:04,850
The thing that people leave out of that is that they're being

533
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:06,840
violated against right now.

534
00:28:06,930 --> 00:28:08,560
People are stealing their stuff.

535
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,200
They are being threatened.

536
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,270
There's a threat of violence to each and everyone's head.

537
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:16,993
If you're paying taxes, well, you can argue for and against.

538
00:28:17,298 --> 00:28:22,541
Taxes, I guess, on some level, I think, that you can deductively reason yourself

539
00:28:22,541 --> 00:28:27,861
to that taxes are always a net negative, but especially with inflation, which

540
00:28:27,861 --> 00:28:33,331
is, it's hard to argue for inflation in any shape or form once you realize

541
00:28:33,431 --> 00:28:37,411
that it's just theft and it's just counterfeiting and it's nothing but that.

542
00:28:37,901 --> 00:28:40,091
But, but that's what Bitcoin removes.

543
00:28:40,201 --> 00:28:45,265
So to me, removing violence and adopting Bitcoin are literally

544
00:28:45,265 --> 00:28:46,375
two sides of the same coin.

545
00:28:46,385 --> 00:28:48,045
They're the exact same phenomenon.

546
00:28:48,865 --> 00:28:52,101
Yeah, and I, I'm, I'm a fan of that thesis, Knut.

547
00:28:52,171 --> 00:28:55,051
I think if you rip the bandaid off, I, I'm actually one of

548
00:28:55,051 --> 00:28:56,731
the people who agree with you.

549
00:28:56,731 --> 00:29:01,001
And I actually think it probably is going to be better if we transition to

550
00:29:01,031 --> 00:29:03,461
Bitcoin really rapidly and really quickly.

551
00:29:03,721 --> 00:29:08,171
For, for years there, I used to say, look, I think Bitcoin's going to be adopted

552
00:29:08,171 --> 00:29:11,891
really rapidly and really quickly, but I don't want it to happen like that

553
00:29:11,891 --> 00:29:13,591
because it's going to be very turbulent.

554
00:29:13,701 --> 00:29:17,251
Could be very messy, could be very violent, but maybe in the past 12

555
00:29:17,281 --> 00:29:20,271
months, I've shifted my thinking a little bit surrounding that and

556
00:29:20,301 --> 00:29:23,581
kind of come to the conclusion after listening to your thoughts for a while.

557
00:29:23,821 --> 00:29:25,511
that It does make a little bit more sense.

558
00:29:25,811 --> 00:29:29,951
Why don't we just rip the bandaid off and transition to a world where it's

559
00:29:30,261 --> 00:29:34,221
far harder to lie to people and it's far harder to steal someone's wealth.

560
00:29:34,571 --> 00:29:35,271
Makes a lot of sense.

561
00:29:36,086 --> 00:29:38,096
Okay, we have some big news.

562
00:29:38,466 --> 00:29:40,706
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563
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564
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565
00:29:47,376 --> 00:29:49,096
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566
00:29:49,766 --> 00:29:54,276
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567
00:29:54,806 --> 00:29:57,916
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568
00:29:57,976 --> 00:29:59,776
you really should go check it out.

569
00:30:00,466 --> 00:30:04,356
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570
00:30:04,726 --> 00:30:05,196
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571
00:30:05,416 --> 00:30:07,996
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572
00:30:08,606 --> 00:30:11,646
They have loads of great features coming that we're excited to share

573
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574
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575
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576
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577
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578
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579
00:30:23,933 --> 00:30:25,501
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580
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581
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582
00:30:31,481 --> 00:30:35,471
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583
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584
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585
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features for power users, they just keep getting better.

586
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587
00:30:48,966 --> 00:30:53,086
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588
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589
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590
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591
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592
00:31:04,621 --> 00:31:07,721
Luke, do you have any, do you have any, anything on your mind?

593
00:31:07,931 --> 00:31:10,521
I, I see you're thinking something there.

594
00:31:11,471 --> 00:31:11,741
Yeah.

595
00:31:11,741 --> 00:31:14,261
Well, I mean, this has been a whole, whole good vein, and

596
00:31:14,261 --> 00:31:15,371
I think I'd like to tie this

597
00:31:15,591 --> 00:31:16,091
Oh, sorry.

598
00:31:16,101 --> 00:31:16,701
Danger.

599
00:31:16,801 --> 00:31:17,341
Danger.

600
00:31:18,271 --> 00:31:18,571
Thanks.

601
00:31:18,571 --> 00:31:18,721
K.

602
00:31:19,201 --> 00:31:22,231
I think I'd like to, I'd like to pull this into a little bit of, uh,

603
00:31:22,231 --> 00:31:28,816
a little bit of what you are doing in the Bitcoin scene community.

604
00:31:29,146 --> 00:31:32,771
You have your YouTube, channel and what are you trying to do with that?

605
00:31:32,771 --> 00:31:36,241
What are you trying to, accomplish, to advance Bitcoin?

606
00:31:37,086 --> 00:31:39,416
Yes, I personally have a couple of different YouTube

607
00:31:39,416 --> 00:31:40,616
channels that I make videos for.

608
00:31:40,616 --> 00:31:43,846
I've got a personal one, but then I also make videos for Coinbeast.

609
00:31:44,126 --> 00:31:47,946
Uh, so we have a YouTube channel called Money Matters and we just

610
00:31:47,946 --> 00:31:49,546
make Bitcoin only education.

611
00:31:49,876 --> 00:31:54,686
Um, and I also, uh, kind of train other Bitcoiners and other Bitcoin

612
00:31:54,686 --> 00:31:56,576
YouTubers, uh, to how to kind of...

613
00:31:56,801 --> 00:31:59,441
Hack virality in their content.

614
00:31:59,551 --> 00:32:03,981
So, uh, I also kind of, help YouTubers grow their audience so that

615
00:32:03,981 --> 00:32:05,361
they can orange pill more people.

616
00:32:05,401 --> 00:32:08,331
Cause that's my mission at the end of the day, orange pill more people.

617
00:32:08,361 --> 00:32:12,561
And I think if we are going to actually reach some sort of hyperbitcoinization,

618
00:32:12,721 --> 00:32:19,361
we actually sadly do need to interact with these platforms normies are.

619
00:32:19,711 --> 00:32:22,771
Uh, we can shout all we want on Twitter, but it's pretty simple.

620
00:32:22,781 --> 00:32:24,851
Most of my normie friends aren't on Twitter.

621
00:32:25,161 --> 00:32:27,111
They're on YouTube, they're on Instagram.

622
00:32:27,331 --> 00:32:31,631
So my mission is to try to make some easily digestible, Bitcoin only content

623
00:32:31,631 --> 00:32:33,751
over on YouTube that catches the masses.

624
00:32:34,021 --> 00:32:36,401
Sometimes that involves clickbaiting a little bit.

625
00:32:36,681 --> 00:32:40,421
And sometimes if you can clickbait a lot of new people, you can actually

626
00:32:40,421 --> 00:32:44,261
deliver them an orange pill, uh, that's kind of wrapped up in some clickbait,

627
00:32:44,681 --> 00:32:48,111
you know, crypto scammery that's on YouTube because when I was learning

628
00:32:48,141 --> 00:32:52,511
about Bitcoin, I primarily went to YouTube in 2018 and 2019, and that's

629
00:32:52,511 --> 00:32:56,481
where I got scammed because there was no Bitcoin only content on there.

630
00:32:56,741 --> 00:32:57,031
Okay.

631
00:32:57,031 --> 00:33:00,971
I learned a little bit from Max and Andreas, but everything else, it was just

632
00:33:01,021 --> 00:33:04,051
crypto trading, all of this other trash.

633
00:33:04,101 --> 00:33:06,991
Um, so that's my mission, just trying to orange pill the world.

634
00:33:06,991 --> 00:33:10,241
And I think, , what I am doing right now is probably the closest.

635
00:33:11,011 --> 00:33:12,681
I'm trying to doing the most that I can.

636
00:33:12,691 --> 00:33:14,791
I've nearly published my first book.

637
00:33:14,811 --> 00:33:18,101
Um, and I'm focusing pretty heavily on YouTube and helping

638
00:33:18,111 --> 00:33:19,441
other people master YouTube.

639
00:33:19,964 --> 00:33:20,384
Great.

640
00:33:20,444 --> 00:33:22,664
And did you say coin based?

641
00:33:22,959 --> 00:33:23,159
Or

642
00:33:23,354 --> 00:33:23,784
Yeah.

643
00:33:24,709 --> 00:33:25,019
Coinbase.

644
00:33:25,049 --> 00:33:25,339
Coinbase.

645
00:33:26,399 --> 00:33:27,689
Yeah, that sounds way better.

646
00:33:28,594 --> 00:33:29,284
A lot better.

647
00:33:29,749 --> 00:33:32,649
You wouldn't touch Coinbase with a 21 foot pole, I guess.

648
00:33:33,554 --> 00:33:34,244
Definitely not.

649
00:33:35,374 --> 00:33:38,674
It's funny, all of my, editing software can never pick up my strong accent.

650
00:33:38,674 --> 00:33:42,794
So a lot of the times when I say coin beast, the little caption is coin base.

651
00:33:43,334 --> 00:33:44,674
Uh, yeah, it's a, it's a struggle.

652
00:33:45,176 --> 00:33:47,666
So, so what does Coinbase do?

653
00:33:48,511 --> 00:33:51,541
No, you know, This is the, this is the problem, isn't it?

654
00:33:51,661 --> 00:33:56,371
Uh, I think it's, you're saying beast as in like a, like a grrr, a

655
00:33:56,676 --> 00:33:57,116
There you go,

656
00:33:57,306 --> 00:33:57,766
TLDR?

657
00:33:57,816 --> 00:33:58,326
Coinbeast!

658
00:33:58,566 --> 00:34:04,096
Alright, alright, yeah, yeah, my algorithm didn't detect your dialect there properly.

659
00:34:05,461 --> 00:34:07,381
So what does CoinBeast do?

660
00:34:08,206 --> 00:34:11,796
So we're a Bitcoin only educational company and we connect

661
00:34:11,796 --> 00:34:13,846
new people to Bitcoin pros.

662
00:34:13,996 --> 00:34:17,626
So if someone wants to set up a sophisticated mining operation, we connect

663
00:34:17,626 --> 00:34:21,986
them with a video call with people like Adam O Denverbitcoin Um, if somebody wants

664
00:34:21,986 --> 00:34:25,256
to take self custody of their Bitcoin, we connect them to a Bitcoin pro who's

665
00:34:25,256 --> 00:34:28,656
going to help them custody their Bitcoin and get their Bitcoin off exchanges.

666
00:34:28,766 --> 00:34:32,479
We do that and we also spread Bitcoin only educational, content

667
00:34:32,489 --> 00:34:34,089
on Twitter and on YouTube.

668
00:34:34,704 --> 00:34:39,677
So if someone comes and asks for, dad jokes and philosophy, uh,

669
00:34:40,807 --> 00:34:41,977
rants, where do you send them?

670
00:34:42,812 --> 00:34:43,222
We got it.

671
00:34:43,222 --> 00:34:44,872
Cause we could, we should send them to you, Knut.

672
00:34:44,982 --> 00:34:47,822
We need to hook you up as a, Bitcoin pro.

673
00:34:47,972 --> 00:34:48,502
We should.

674
00:34:50,737 --> 00:34:51,057
Yeah.

675
00:34:51,097 --> 00:34:52,697
Uh, dad jokes as a service.

676
00:34:53,121 --> 00:34:56,211
Knut thinks that other people also enjoy the things that he finds

677
00:34:56,211 --> 00:34:58,341
funny and that's pretty good because

678
00:34:58,411 --> 00:34:59,581
yeah, that's funny to me.

679
00:34:59,871 --> 00:35:00,371
Yeah.

680
00:35:01,296 --> 00:35:02,096
And that's why I'm here.

681
00:35:02,136 --> 00:35:02,996
I'm here for the dad jokes.

682
00:35:03,781 --> 00:35:04,251
perfect.

683
00:35:04,301 --> 00:35:04,581
right.

684
00:35:05,121 --> 00:35:09,444
I have a joke, uh, about, construction, but it isn't done yet.

685
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:10,469
I mean,

686
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:11,669
Oh, hey, there you go.

687
00:35:11,729 --> 00:35:12,159
Uh, yeah.

688
00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:13,709
You got me.

689
00:35:13,934 --> 00:35:17,824
Well, well, so, so can you tell us a little bit more about, the,

690
00:35:17,854 --> 00:35:23,374
the whole reaching out to more people thing, we're kind of in the

691
00:35:23,374 --> 00:35:25,994
business of deepening conviction.

692
00:35:25,994 --> 00:35:31,176
We've, we've been talking about this A little bit lately that the Freedom

693
00:35:31,176 --> 00:35:37,556
Footprint show isn't exactly the best thing for a new person to come find

694
00:35:37,596 --> 00:35:40,016
where we're a little on the toxic side.

695
00:35:40,276 --> 00:35:41,086
I saw you.

696
00:35:41,106 --> 00:35:44,866
You were avoiding swearing earlier as well.

697
00:35:45,246 --> 00:35:46,096
Um, and...

698
00:35:46,756 --> 00:35:51,556
Are these things that, that turn people off on YouTube or

699
00:35:51,556 --> 00:35:53,086
that YouTube deprioritizes?

700
00:35:53,126 --> 00:35:56,416
Like, does that actually stop us from growing even though we're

701
00:35:56,606 --> 00:36:01,909
kind of finding our niche in the, uh, toxic Bitcoin maxi community?

702
00:36:02,382 --> 00:36:03,922
I, I'm not a hundred percent sure.

703
00:36:03,982 --> 00:36:07,742
I've seen some people, some big YouTubers claim that using the F

704
00:36:07,762 --> 00:36:11,982
bomb multiple times, uh, it's going to affect your monetization, but it

705
00:36:11,982 --> 00:36:14,342
shouldn't actually affect your virality.

706
00:36:14,632 --> 00:36:17,422
this is like something, you see a lot of people repeat.

707
00:36:17,432 --> 00:36:19,282
A lot of people say I'm shadow banned on YouTube.

708
00:36:19,282 --> 00:36:21,982
I'm shadow banned on YouTube because they think that, you know,

709
00:36:22,022 --> 00:36:23,372
the algorithm is squashing them.

710
00:36:23,372 --> 00:36:25,072
And it's just the fact that it makes shit content.

711
00:36:25,432 --> 00:36:27,082
Yeah, you're not very popular.

712
00:36:27,082 --> 00:36:28,112
That's, that's the case.

713
00:36:28,112 --> 00:36:28,792
You're not shadow.

714
00:36:28,802 --> 00:36:29,892
You're not shadow band.

715
00:36:29,892 --> 00:36:30,572
You're boring.

716
00:36:31,167 --> 00:36:32,357
yeah, I was one of them.

717
00:36:32,357 --> 00:36:34,767
I used to think my channel was shadowbanned when I started it, but

718
00:36:34,777 --> 00:36:39,347
the fact was I just made shit titles, shit thumbnails, and I needed to, uh,

719
00:36:39,377 --> 00:36:42,694
get, better with what I said, so I, but I think, think I prefer to play

720
00:36:42,704 --> 00:36:46,067
it safe, uh, on some of my channels, on my personal channel, I let it fly,

721
00:36:46,147 --> 00:36:50,007
um, and I've dropped many F bombs in a video and it does well, so I don't

722
00:36:50,007 --> 00:36:54,347
think F bombs affects you unless you, uh, monetize in your YouTube channel.

723
00:36:55,062 --> 00:36:57,676
Yeah, Me and Luke, we talk about this all the time.

724
00:36:57,676 --> 00:37:00,466
What we're actually trying to achieve with this thing and what

725
00:37:00,466 --> 00:37:01,686
we're trying to do and like.

726
00:37:02,061 --> 00:37:05,481
I mean, for the most part, why we started it and that's still the core is just

727
00:37:05,481 --> 00:37:09,021
that we want to have conversations with other Bitcoiners because we love having

728
00:37:09,021 --> 00:37:10,491
conversations with other Bitcoiners.

729
00:37:10,521 --> 00:37:12,921
It's our favorite thing to do in the world.

730
00:37:13,337 --> 00:37:16,851
But also like, what kind of audience are we doing this

731
00:37:16,851 --> 00:37:18,981
for and who are our listeners?

732
00:37:19,031 --> 00:37:23,111
Like, it's, it's kind of hard to, to get a grasp of those things.

733
00:37:23,151 --> 00:37:27,694
And, is like a computer game in a sense, there are different levers to

734
00:37:27,694 --> 00:37:31,214
pull and there are different things to try, but I think at the core of.

735
00:37:31,532 --> 00:37:35,262
Our idea of this is to get quality listeners rather than quantity listeners.

736
00:37:35,262 --> 00:37:39,532
We like to align with the Bitcoin ethos and prioritize quality over quantity.

737
00:37:39,532 --> 00:37:41,082
That's, that's like the main goal.

738
00:37:41,742 --> 00:37:42,652
And that's mine as well.

739
00:37:42,809 --> 00:37:47,799
my, my thinking surrounding it, is to get the quality listeners is you kind

740
00:37:47,799 --> 00:37:52,329
of have to play the YouTube algorithm, the YouTube game, uh, to actually cast

741
00:37:52,329 --> 00:37:54,289
your net out there to find the quality.

742
00:37:54,289 --> 00:37:58,269
Cause I believe there are so many quality hardcore Bitcoiners around the

743
00:37:58,269 --> 00:38:00,249
world who are simply not Bitcoiners yet.

744
00:38:00,329 --> 00:38:04,799
And I think the number one touch point that many people are going to

745
00:38:04,859 --> 00:38:08,479
touch to kind of discover what Bitcoin is, it's number go up technology.

746
00:38:08,681 --> 00:38:11,971
and I think just to answer one of your earlier questions surrounding

747
00:38:12,031 --> 00:38:16,611
toxicity and, you know, should we be toxic if we are trying to welcome new

748
00:38:16,641 --> 00:38:20,251
people to Bitcoin or appeal to newer people who are outside of Bitcoin?

749
00:38:20,571 --> 00:38:24,771
I actually roll with yes, I think it's actually a good thing to be toxic, be more

750
00:38:24,771 --> 00:38:29,621
real, uh, don't worry about the, you know, the swear bombs, because I think people

751
00:38:30,011 --> 00:38:35,411
They're so sick of this, nice corporate lie that they used to from the government.

752
00:38:35,411 --> 00:38:38,221
They're looking for alternative viewpoints surrounding the world.

753
00:38:38,261 --> 00:38:42,071
So I think if you're real and you're authentic, um, on YouTube, I think people

754
00:38:42,071 --> 00:38:43,551
are going to relate to you a lot more.

755
00:38:43,661 --> 00:38:45,011
that's how I go about it.

756
00:38:45,011 --> 00:38:48,624
And that's kind of how I, tell my clients they should also go about it.

757
00:38:48,624 --> 00:38:51,204
You know, don't worry about being very corporate and very nice

758
00:38:51,204 --> 00:38:52,364
because people are sick of it.

759
00:38:53,169 --> 00:38:59,019
this is so true that some wise man said, I don't remember who, but someone said,

760
00:38:59,062 --> 00:39:01,052
honesty is the currency of the future.

761
00:39:01,469 --> 00:39:06,179
that struck a chord with me because like, yes, Bitcoin is honesty.

762
00:39:06,189 --> 00:39:07,459
That's exactly what it is.

763
00:39:07,729 --> 00:39:09,210
But there's more to it.

764
00:39:09,412 --> 00:39:12,302
that's one of the superpowers that Bitcoin gives you.

765
00:39:12,698 --> 00:39:18,239
Not only in a philosophical sense or a meta sense, but once you know that You're

766
00:39:18,249 --> 00:39:22,699
set for like, if you get over above a certain threshold and you know, your coins

767
00:39:22,699 --> 00:39:27,409
are stored, stored properly, and they're uncensorable, then you know that you'll

768
00:39:27,419 --> 00:39:29,179
have them forever and so on and so forth.

769
00:39:29,509 --> 00:39:33,679
That allows you to be yourself to a much larger extent.

770
00:39:34,206 --> 00:39:36,296
so honesty is the currency of the future.

771
00:39:36,296 --> 00:39:38,376
There, there are so many layers to that.

772
00:39:38,406 --> 00:39:42,899
And I think that's, the people watching, YouTube shows or listening

773
00:39:42,899 --> 00:39:47,209
to pods, they, they appreciate honesty above everything else because like,

774
00:39:47,469 --> 00:39:52,819
why would you listen to anything that markets itself as interesting

775
00:39:52,819 --> 00:39:56,029
when it's not actually interesting, because if it's not honest, it's.

776
00:39:56,294 --> 00:39:58,164
It's not interesting by default.

777
00:39:58,384 --> 00:40:03,034
It can be interesting to see what others think about stuff, but still,

778
00:40:03,401 --> 00:40:04,831
honesty is the only way forward.

779
00:40:04,851 --> 00:40:08,538
And there's nothing easier in the world than dropping all of your

780
00:40:09,178 --> 00:40:14,018
previous fiat masks that you were wearing and just be yourself and try

781
00:40:14,018 --> 00:40:15,608
to be the best version of yourself.

782
00:40:15,913 --> 00:40:16,463
Possible.

783
00:40:16,586 --> 00:40:18,606
and if you fail, good for you.

784
00:40:18,676 --> 00:40:19,546
You learned something.

785
00:40:19,943 --> 00:40:22,923
that's what we strive for anyway, to, to try to do here.

786
00:40:22,973 --> 00:40:25,303
Learning new things is, it's fun.

787
00:40:25,663 --> 00:40:30,009
Once you allow yourself to, admit that I don't know anything about

788
00:40:30,009 --> 00:40:31,589
this, but I'm going to give it a try.

789
00:40:31,729 --> 00:40:31,889
And.

790
00:40:32,509 --> 00:40:33,429
See where it goes.

791
00:40:33,783 --> 00:40:34,823
That's the best thing ever.

792
00:40:35,713 --> 00:40:36,273
I love that.

793
00:40:36,303 --> 00:40:37,883
Honesty is the future.

794
00:40:37,963 --> 00:40:39,353
I think that's very poetic.

795
00:40:39,353 --> 00:40:43,153
And I think that's, you know, one of the reasons why Bitcoin is the fastest growing

796
00:40:43,153 --> 00:40:45,393
technological invention in history.

797
00:40:45,393 --> 00:40:47,973
It's one of the fastest growing faster than the internet was.

798
00:40:48,273 --> 00:40:51,283
And that's because people are sick of this fiat world where they've been

799
00:40:51,293 --> 00:40:52,803
lied to for the past hundred years.

800
00:40:53,303 --> 00:40:57,123
society has been lied to about the educational system, the healthcare

801
00:40:57,123 --> 00:41:01,553
system, the medical system, and, first and foremost, the monetary system.

802
00:41:01,563 --> 00:41:03,003
People are sick Sick of all of it.

803
00:41:03,013 --> 00:41:06,343
And you're slowly watching, you know, the beginning of what some people

804
00:41:06,343 --> 00:41:08,163
call this, you know, great awakening.

805
00:41:08,163 --> 00:41:11,876
I'm not, fully on board with, a lot of the things that those, that crowd says,

806
00:41:11,876 --> 00:41:15,696
but they're onto something like the world is slowly gravitating towards truth.

807
00:41:15,746 --> 00:41:16,686
And I love that.

808
00:41:16,686 --> 00:41:17,156
What did you say?

809
00:41:17,156 --> 00:41:20,326
Big, uh, the future is truth and Bitcoin is the truth.

810
00:41:20,896 --> 00:41:23,536
Oh, well, honesty is the currency of the future.

811
00:41:23,566 --> 00:41:24,936
And Bitcoin is honesty.

812
00:41:25,234 --> 00:41:26,313
I think that's what I said.

813
00:41:26,624 --> 00:41:27,639
there's so much there.

814
00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:32,209
I mean, we've been lied to sort of implies that there's a liar.

815
00:41:32,539 --> 00:41:36,469
And I, I think that most people are just confused.

816
00:41:36,519 --> 00:41:40,958
Most people in these institutions, most politicians, of course, some of them are

817
00:41:40,958 --> 00:41:46,228
deliberately lying about stuff, obviously, but most of them, most of the people on

818
00:41:46,228 --> 00:41:52,933
the wrong side of the fence, so to speak, are just Ignorant about certain topics and

819
00:41:52,933 --> 00:41:57,786
therefore they push the current narrative forward and they aren't able to, zoom

820
00:41:57,786 --> 00:42:00,456
out of the era that in which they live.

821
00:42:00,546 --> 00:42:05,356
And they think that these are modern times, these are how things are and

822
00:42:05,356 --> 00:42:07,186
this is how things are going to work.

823
00:42:07,186 --> 00:42:11,026
And they don't see themselves on this historical spectrum and don't realize

824
00:42:11,026 --> 00:42:15,166
that every single generation in human history thought that this is now.

825
00:42:15,211 --> 00:42:17,691
Because it was now, it's always now.

826
00:42:18,041 --> 00:42:20,531
And that now is always changing.

827
00:42:20,941 --> 00:42:22,171
It's not static at all.

828
00:42:22,221 --> 00:42:23,181
It's dynamic.

829
00:42:23,281 --> 00:42:28,846
So the interesting thing is where we're going and what direction we're going in.

830
00:42:29,416 --> 00:42:33,988
And I think honesty is the best path forward, of course, and, and, uh,

831
00:42:34,058 --> 00:42:39,308
that if people in government knew about praxeology, for instance,

832
00:42:39,308 --> 00:42:40,488
they wouldn't be in government.

833
00:42:40,508 --> 00:42:45,751
they would be in the private sector and more and more things would move away

834
00:42:45,761 --> 00:42:50,581
from things that provably cannot work.

835
00:42:50,816 --> 00:42:53,776
In the long term, fiat money is the obvious example, but

836
00:42:53,776 --> 00:42:54,896
there are other things as well.

837
00:42:54,926 --> 00:42:59,689
But, fiat money cannot work in the long run because it means more and

838
00:42:59,689 --> 00:43:01,159
more money printing every year.

839
00:43:01,496 --> 00:43:03,666
uh, GDP going up forever is corruption.

840
00:43:03,976 --> 00:43:06,436
Like Greta Thunberg says, it's a fantasy.

841
00:43:07,246 --> 00:43:13,896
It really is perpetual growth measured in GDP is a fantasy.

842
00:43:14,306 --> 00:43:20,776
Perpetual growth in terms of human ingenuity and innovation, that's possible

843
00:43:20,776 --> 00:43:24,376
at least until the sun becomes big and eats us up after 4 million years.

844
00:43:24,376 --> 00:43:28,736
If we haven't found a way to get to another star, that's,

845
00:43:28,916 --> 00:43:30,836
uh, that's not forever.

846
00:43:31,156 --> 00:43:35,231
Few things are, But yeah, I don't really know where I'm going with

847
00:43:35,231 --> 00:43:40,541
this, but I think there's a connection to honesty and something here.

848
00:43:40,591 --> 00:43:45,391
I think the system itself turns people into liars rather than there being a

849
00:43:45,401 --> 00:43:47,471
deliberate conspiracy going on anywhere.

850
00:43:48,316 --> 00:43:51,686
Yeah, I used to be a lot more in the camp.

851
00:43:51,706 --> 00:43:53,956
I was far more heavily in the camp of, there's a they.

852
00:43:54,376 --> 00:43:56,316
It's the World Economic Forum and it's class.

853
00:43:56,366 --> 00:43:58,406
They're the ones controlling the whole world.

854
00:43:58,656 --> 00:44:01,656
That was kind of my view, you know, 2018, 2019.

855
00:44:01,656 --> 00:44:05,089
And, kind of slowly gravitated a little bit and changed my opinion a little bit.

856
00:44:05,089 --> 00:44:07,849
I still do think there are evil people in the world.

857
00:44:08,139 --> 00:44:12,349
Like Klaus and, many of the people who go to some very interesting islands

858
00:44:12,349 --> 00:44:16,849
around the world with Jeffrey, but I think there's just a large incentive system

859
00:44:16,849 --> 00:44:20,709
where people have just been caught up in this fiat incentive system and, they

860
00:44:20,709 --> 00:44:22,579
believe everything they've been told.

861
00:44:22,659 --> 00:44:26,614
And I think it's just going to take time for them to come to the realization that.

862
00:44:26,854 --> 00:44:31,404
No, truth is not what the church and the state is telling you, it is, and you know,

863
00:44:31,464 --> 00:44:35,544
500 years ago when the printing press did separate church and the state, it took

864
00:44:35,544 --> 00:44:39,564
a long time, like it took decades for the truth to finally get out there, and

865
00:44:39,564 --> 00:44:44,004
I think it still might take a little bit of time, uh, in today's internet age, but

866
00:44:44,004 --> 00:44:48,438
I think, you know, uh, with the internet democratizing information and bitcoin,

867
00:44:48,678 --> 00:44:52,658
, democratizing and decentralizing money, I think it could happen very rapidly

868
00:44:52,658 --> 00:44:57,898
that People do jump out of this fiat incentive system, that they've come to

869
00:44:57,918 --> 00:45:00,578
live by and believe in their whole life.

870
00:45:00,608 --> 00:45:03,548
So I'm pretty interested in how things could unfold in the coming years.

871
00:45:04,528 --> 00:45:05,008
Yeah.

872
00:45:05,093 --> 00:45:07,053
Not to say there's no evil people.

873
00:45:07,083 --> 00:45:08,823
Of course, there are evil people.

874
00:45:08,823 --> 00:45:13,779
And the thing is that the systems we've built up, they attract evil people.

875
00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:17,429
if you're evil, and if you're willing to do whatever to get into

876
00:45:17,429 --> 00:45:20,999
positions of power, you probably will end up in a position of power.

877
00:45:20,999 --> 00:45:24,933
And that's how skewed, , how bad the systems are built up.

878
00:45:25,246 --> 00:45:32,886
So it is the rich men north of Richmond, uh, that are maybe not causing the mess,

879
00:45:32,906 --> 00:45:35,966
but making the mess worse every day,

880
00:45:37,014 --> 00:45:37,724
Exactly.

881
00:45:37,764 --> 00:45:39,164
Yeah, that's, that's how I see the world.

882
00:45:39,164 --> 00:45:42,914
And, what a man, Oliver Anthony, he certainly captured the cultural

883
00:45:42,914 --> 00:45:44,704
zeitgeist, with that song recently.

884
00:45:45,089 --> 00:45:46,069
Yeah, yeah.

885
00:45:46,219 --> 00:45:50,183
And some bitcoiners were, uh, Tur, for instance, was one of the first

886
00:45:50,183 --> 00:45:53,363
ones on the ball there, and he really saw the genius of that song.

887
00:45:53,693 --> 00:45:57,023
And I remember I saw it like a day after it was released.

888
00:45:57,491 --> 00:46:02,658
A day after that, I sent him an email, invited him to this show, but, uh, we had

889
00:46:02,658 --> 00:46:05,088
no chance at getting him on at that point.

890
00:46:05,098 --> 00:46:08,088
Maybe, maybe, Oliver, if you hear this, we'd love to have

891
00:46:08,088 --> 00:46:09,738
you on our show and talk music.

892
00:46:10,284 --> 00:46:11,734
Because he got so viral.

893
00:46:11,754 --> 00:46:14,084
So, so everyone tried to reach out to him, of course,

894
00:46:14,724 --> 00:46:17,201
Yeah, I I think that song got tens of millions of views.

895
00:46:17,414 --> 00:46:20,844
absolutely ridiculous, but it kind of shows, way of the times.

896
00:46:20,844 --> 00:46:23,574
It shows you what society is feeling.

897
00:46:23,634 --> 00:46:27,904
We see all of these viral TikTok videos recently where you have soccer moms

898
00:46:27,904 --> 00:46:31,474
in Canada and America literally crying on camera saying they can't afford

899
00:46:31,514 --> 00:46:35,984
things and slow You're having songs from Oliver Anthony start to actually

900
00:46:36,244 --> 00:46:38,754
correctly diagnose the root problem.

901
00:46:38,754 --> 00:46:39,654
It's fiat money.

902
00:46:39,654 --> 00:46:44,094
It's these rich cabal of elites who can, you know, change the rules of

903
00:46:44,094 --> 00:46:47,514
the monetary system whenever they want and print new monetary units.

904
00:46:47,564 --> 00:46:51,134
That's the reason that cost of living is getting ridiculously high.

905
00:46:51,134 --> 00:46:54,344
It's just, we don't quite have those people correctly

906
00:46:54,344 --> 00:46:55,874
identifying the solution yet.

907
00:46:55,894 --> 00:46:56,664
We have some people.

908
00:46:56,894 --> 00:47:00,764
We have people like, Jordan Peterson warming up to Bitcoin and

909
00:47:00,774 --> 00:47:02,474
slowly beginning to talk about it.

910
00:47:02,514 --> 00:47:07,364
We also have other, viral people around the world, like Joe Roken, begin to

911
00:47:07,374 --> 00:47:10,134
mention Bitcoin a little bit, uh, more.

912
00:47:10,184 --> 00:47:13,404
So I think we're really on the tipping point of, society,

913
00:47:13,454 --> 00:47:15,054
saying, okay, this is the problem.

914
00:47:15,134 --> 00:47:16,554
There's something wrong with the money.

915
00:47:16,704 --> 00:47:19,644
And I think we're not far away from people actually correctly

916
00:47:19,664 --> 00:47:21,374
diagnosing the solution.

917
00:47:21,384 --> 00:47:21,959
And it is Bitcoin.

918
00:47:21,959 --> 00:47:22,804
It's so simple.

919
00:47:22,864 --> 00:47:23,579
21 million.

920
00:47:23,971 --> 00:47:24,631
exactly.

921
00:47:24,698 --> 00:47:25,908
yeah, Joe Rogan.

922
00:47:25,908 --> 00:47:29,638
I think he might have been the guy who said current honesty is the currency of

923
00:47:29,638 --> 00:47:34,528
the future, or it's someone talking about Rogan because I think he captured that.

924
00:47:34,538 --> 00:47:37,238
That's why he became so big because he was honest.

925
00:47:37,564 --> 00:47:39,938
he had honest conversations and people wanted that.

926
00:47:40,516 --> 00:47:43,556
There's also other people around the world, you know, uh, like

927
00:47:43,556 --> 00:47:44,966
Russell Brand for example.

928
00:47:45,006 --> 00:47:49,006
Another one who's just, I believe, is speaking the truth and just speaking

929
00:47:49,006 --> 00:47:52,696
about things openly and he's getting attacked left, right, and center.

930
00:47:52,746 --> 00:47:54,496
He's got millions of subscribers on YouTube.

931
00:47:55,591 --> 00:47:59,991
I think though that there's a, and Russell Brand may or may not be an

932
00:47:59,991 --> 00:48:06,070
example of this, but I think, People play different games and a lot of content

933
00:48:06,070 --> 00:48:11,496
creators, they get addicted to their success because like, it's overwhelming.

934
00:48:11,506 --> 00:48:17,036
If you manage to grow big in a short amount of time and, you get

935
00:48:17,036 --> 00:48:20,526
all sorts of perks, people start to treat you differently and you get all

936
00:48:20,526 --> 00:48:22,976
sorts of offers from here and there.

937
00:48:23,306 --> 00:48:24,876
So, in a way this.

938
00:48:25,776 --> 00:48:31,323
Race for likes and, and retweets and subscribers and stuff, it becomes a, uh,

939
00:48:31,493 --> 00:48:39,373
an incentive structure that may not have honesty as its, uh, biggest driving force

940
00:48:39,383 --> 00:48:44,633
in the, for a lot of these YouTubers, because they, they value their, the power

941
00:48:44,633 --> 00:48:47,513
that comes with being recognized so high.

942
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:49,080
this is a thing.

943
00:48:49,405 --> 00:48:54,771
That may or may not happen, but like, when Bitcoin, 10Xs, which

944
00:48:54,781 --> 00:49:00,265
it does at some point, we 10X too, at least in all probability.

945
00:49:00,485 --> 00:49:02,115
So all the Bitcoiners will be.

946
00:49:02,465 --> 00:49:07,768
Ten times as more recognized and that comes with, upsides and

947
00:49:07,778 --> 00:49:11,851
downsides, if you have a hundred thousand followers, like statistics

948
00:49:11,851 --> 00:49:15,371
can tell you how big a percentage of those followers are psychopaths.

949
00:49:15,421 --> 00:49:18,601
Like there's, there's upsides and downsides to that.

950
00:49:19,081 --> 00:49:22,791
And I, I think as, as public Bitcoin is when we need to

951
00:49:22,801 --> 00:49:24,601
be prepared for what a, uh.

952
00:49:24,916 --> 00:49:30,250
A big Heinz Ketchup moment would do it to us and especially to

953
00:49:30,250 --> 00:49:33,770
our psyches and to our egos and not let that get to our heads.

954
00:49:34,544 --> 00:49:38,743
Bitcoin changes you more than you change, can change it as the saying goes.

955
00:49:38,783 --> 00:49:43,020
And, uh, It's mostly a change for the better, but attention

956
00:49:43,020 --> 00:49:46,780
changes you too, and that might not always be a change for the better.

957
00:49:47,070 --> 00:49:48,310
do you have any thoughts around that?

958
00:49:49,070 --> 00:49:50,430
I have many different thoughts.

959
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,940
Uh, the first one, obviously being like, you're seeing this on YouTube.

960
00:49:54,270 --> 00:49:57,480
Like if I record a video tomorrow saying Bitcoin's going to a hundred

961
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,090
million dollars and here's why that's going to get, you know, 10, 000 views.

962
00:50:01,170 --> 00:50:04,200
But if I do a video tomorrow saying, uh, this is why the

963
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:05,730
lightning network is a revolution.

964
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,365
It's probably going to get 500 views.

965
00:50:07,365 --> 00:50:09,190
It's going to get 20 times less views.

966
00:50:09,570 --> 00:50:12,740
And it is very difficult to try to balance the, the kind

967
00:50:12,740 --> 00:50:14,110
of content that you are making.

968
00:50:14,355 --> 00:50:17,775
Purely as a content creator with the fiat incentives that we do

969
00:50:17,825 --> 00:50:19,895
have in front of us at the moment.

970
00:50:19,915 --> 00:50:24,435
And it's very difficult to try to use a little bit of curiosity and clickbait in

971
00:50:24,435 --> 00:50:28,985
our titles, but also deliver that Bitcoin message alongside the ridiculous clickbait

972
00:50:29,005 --> 00:50:30,085
that's going to get all the views.

973
00:50:30,085 --> 00:50:32,938
I think that's something that a lot of Bitcoin companies can

974
00:50:32,968 --> 00:50:35,038
certainly take advantage of more.

975
00:50:35,038 --> 00:50:37,888
But when you're kind of talking about the incentives and how it changes

976
00:50:37,888 --> 00:50:41,568
you personally, I think you've kind of got two diametrically opposing.

977
00:50:41,753 --> 00:50:44,173
Social media platforms battling it out right now.

978
00:50:44,203 --> 00:50:48,443
You have X or Twitter and you have Nostr and, like you say, Knut,

979
00:50:48,493 --> 00:50:51,443
I think the incentives have been very skewed on Twitter right now.

980
00:50:51,723 --> 00:50:57,553
People, being able to monetize their accounts and, uh, for a laugh, I go and

981
00:50:57,553 --> 00:50:59,153
listen to some of these, you know, large.

982
00:51:02,988 --> 00:51:05,841
And all of these big guys of a million, followers, they're saying,

983
00:51:05,841 --> 00:51:07,211
yeah, yeah, it's really easy.

984
00:51:07,411 --> 00:51:10,991
You just need to comment in the replies of all of my, uh, Twitter posts.

985
00:51:11,481 --> 00:51:14,621
And if you pay me money and you subscribe to me, I'm going to reply to you.

986
00:51:14,621 --> 00:51:17,331
So you get lots of engagement and you reach your 5 million

987
00:51:17,331 --> 00:51:18,401
impressions in three months.

988
00:51:18,671 --> 00:51:20,461
And that's just incentivizing trash.

989
00:51:20,601 --> 00:51:24,951
That's incentivizing people just becoming a reply guy, just replying trash in

990
00:51:24,951 --> 00:51:26,451
the comments of their favorite person.

991
00:51:26,461 --> 00:51:28,671
Whereas like on Nostr, provide value.

992
00:51:28,731 --> 00:51:34,071
There's nobody who controls Nostr who can pay you out, uh, for trashy, trashy

993
00:51:34,071 --> 00:51:38,301
comments and, uh, weak, uh, flaccid engagement that's not actually real.

994
00:51:38,301 --> 00:51:39,341
You provide value.

995
00:51:39,361 --> 00:51:42,461
If someone likes your shit, they're gonna zap you for it over the Lightning Network.

996
00:51:43,181 --> 00:51:48,601
Yeah, we've had, some debates about Nostr, and we're not entirely convinced

997
00:51:48,611 --> 00:51:53,581
that it won't run into the same problems as the old incentive structures.

998
00:51:53,611 --> 00:51:57,258
Because, uh, attention is still valuable to content creators,

999
00:51:57,388 --> 00:51:58,898
and people will crave attention.

1000
00:51:59,145 --> 00:52:02,075
that's why people want to be celebrities there's a difference

1001
00:52:02,265 --> 00:52:06,035
between wanting to be a celebrity and wanting to be recognized for sure.

1002
00:52:06,466 --> 00:52:11,476
Of course, you want your work to be appreciated by others, but some people

1003
00:52:11,486 --> 00:52:15,926
just want the attention for attention's sake, and that's a different game.

1004
00:52:16,243 --> 00:52:20,133
and there's, there are no real easy solutions to that, but when I hear that

1005
00:52:20,153 --> 00:52:24,013
about the Twitter space that's just talked about, it reminds me of the Wolf of Wall

1006
00:52:24,013 --> 00:52:28,923
Street and the last scene where, where, where, uh, sell me this pen and, and,

1007
00:52:28,963 --> 00:52:36,323
and this obvious asshole still gets, A ton of people to, a ton of people still

1008
00:52:36,333 --> 00:52:41,273
want to be like him because he scammed a lot of people and he was a total dick,

1009
00:52:41,783 --> 00:52:44,893
but they want to know how to be a total dick because he made a lot of money.

1010
00:52:46,223 --> 00:52:51,393
Uh, it's, yeah, but we, for our show, we talk about stuff like this a lot, me and

1011
00:52:51,523 --> 00:52:55,916
Danger here and we, we would never like.

1012
00:52:56,511 --> 00:53:00,731
Seriously interview a shit coiner and like, apologize for what they

1013
00:53:00,731 --> 00:53:05,781
do, or if we ever have a shit coiner on, it will be, ruthless.

1014
00:53:06,898 --> 00:53:11,575
so, so, the thing is, the price for, for everything else is your

1015
00:53:11,595 --> 00:53:14,075
integrity and your reputation is.

1016
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:15,370
is always on the line.

1017
00:53:15,370 --> 00:53:17,943
And the way I see it, you can only sell your soul once.

1018
00:53:18,423 --> 00:53:21,753
If you take the bag of shit coins and run away, uh, like, and if you do

1019
00:53:21,753 --> 00:53:29,280
something dodgy, that dodgy move was probably costlier to you in a, in a

1020
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,930
strict praxeological sense, uh, than, than the, the money you got for it.

1021
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:38,041
So, you won't see me doing ads for some shampoo anytime

1022
00:53:38,041 --> 00:53:40,351
soon if I, even if I do 10 x.

1023
00:53:40,351 --> 00:53:46,681
Like, uh, I, I don't know what the correct analogy is, uh, here, but money has the

1024
00:53:46,681 --> 00:53:48,331
power to change people's incentives.

1025
00:53:48,331 --> 00:53:54,431
So, so I think honest money is a prerequisite for every, uh, everything

1026
00:53:54,431 --> 00:53:56,091
else in the honesty business.

1027
00:53:56,996 --> 00:53:58,046
Yeah, a hundred percent.

1028
00:53:58,046 --> 00:54:01,246
It's very difficult to say no to, you know, large paychecks

1029
00:54:01,246 --> 00:54:02,466
from these shitcoin companies.

1030
00:54:02,486 --> 00:54:05,326
Like I've been approached by a few of them and they've offered me pretty

1031
00:54:05,346 --> 00:54:08,606
significant amounts of money to grow their YouTube channel or grow their Twitter.

1032
00:54:08,606 --> 00:54:11,936
And, uh, I'm the same, I find myself in the same boat as you, Knut.

1033
00:54:11,936 --> 00:54:14,060
There's no amount of money, that, you know, is going to be put in

1034
00:54:14,060 --> 00:54:15,855
front of me that's going to help me.

1035
00:54:15,925 --> 00:54:19,655
Help a scammer or help me help a corrupt shit coiner.

1036
00:54:19,722 --> 00:54:23,811
because I just think it's like you say, it's going to kill your integrity so bad.

1037
00:54:23,811 --> 00:54:26,811
And I just don't believe morally the message they're putting out there.

1038
00:54:26,951 --> 00:54:31,451
but I'm interested, uh, give me the bear case on Nostr, not the bear case,

1039
00:54:31,481 --> 00:54:38,421
but maybe how the incentive system, uh, may not be, or we hope it may be.

1040
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:44,510
full disclaimer, I don't know enough about Nostr yet , to have a really

1041
00:54:44,510 --> 00:54:48,420
informed opinion on this, but the way, the things I know about Nostr

1042
00:54:48,420 --> 00:54:52,510
is that there is no mention of Satoshis in the actual protocol.

1043
00:54:52,770 --> 00:54:57,270
so, and the word decentralization is being thrown around a lot.

1044
00:54:57,300 --> 00:54:58,430
and I always.

1045
00:54:59,251 --> 00:55:04,211
I always suspect things that throw around the word decentralization,

1046
00:55:04,261 --> 00:55:09,661
because to me, decentralization in Bitcoin is an unfortunate means to a

1047
00:55:09,661 --> 00:55:16,091
greater end, which is sound money, like censorship resistance, all of that stuff.

1048
00:55:17,651 --> 00:55:21,341
Decentralization, it would be way easier if it could be decentralized

1049
00:55:21,341 --> 00:55:25,241
and someone could be trusted, then we would only need one Excel sheet and not

1050
00:55:25,241 --> 00:55:27,611
this entire distributed ledger system.

1051
00:55:28,171 --> 00:55:31,701
So the only reason we need decentralization in Bitcoin , is

1052
00:55:31,761 --> 00:55:34,371
to, allow for all the other awesome stuff that it does.

1053
00:55:34,998 --> 00:55:37,468
I don't really see that in Nostr.

1054
00:55:37,478 --> 00:55:41,598
The Nostr is still going to be, uh, through relays and there will

1055
00:55:41,598 --> 00:55:44,728
be premium relays where you pay for a service and everything.

1056
00:55:45,258 --> 00:55:49,745
But that's sort of the same monetization, uh, structure that is.

1057
00:55:49,910 --> 00:55:51,390
going on in the other big things.

1058
00:55:51,390 --> 00:55:54,780
I don't, I don't really see this not taking the same

1059
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,210
path as every other internet.

1060
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:58,550
I know it's a protocol.

1061
00:55:58,550 --> 00:56:04,710
So, but, but if you look at SMTP, for instance, and email providers, they have

1062
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:11,690
sort of centralized, most people use Gmail or, or whatever, Apple Mail or Microsoft.

1063
00:56:11,690 --> 00:56:15,418
I don't know if there's an Apple Mail, but, I, I have a hard time

1064
00:56:15,418 --> 00:56:18,581
seeing how Noster itself solves that.

1065
00:56:18,821 --> 00:56:24,008
Bitcoin may solve it somehow, but cryptography is not enough.

1066
00:56:24,013 --> 00:56:28,478
I know Giggy is a big Noster fan and he, but he is also the guy that said

1067
00:56:28,478 --> 00:56:31,298
Crisp crypto cryptography is not enough.

1068
00:56:32,603 --> 00:56:36,793
Your identity on Nostr is a cryptographic public key and a private key, right?

1069
00:56:37,513 --> 00:56:42,013
So, what if you fire up a million accounts, or a million key pairs,

1070
00:56:42,593 --> 00:56:50,136
and, uh, you, uh, you send a bunch of sats from 999, 999 of those

1071
00:56:50,136 --> 00:56:52,306
accounts to the millionth account.

1072
00:56:52,836 --> 00:57:00,068
Then most of the algorithms on the relays will, put your Nostr posts high up in

1073
00:57:00,068 --> 00:57:05,188
people's feed, uh, because there's no way of, verifying that the, the key

1074
00:57:05,188 --> 00:57:07,808
pairs are actually not the same person.

1075
00:57:07,838 --> 00:57:12,688
So, so you run into all these bot problems and everything that are already

1076
00:57:12,688 --> 00:57:14,158
in all the other social networks.

1077
00:57:14,608 --> 00:57:18,938
And I, I'm not saying I don't buy it completely because I'm still

1078
00:57:19,298 --> 00:57:21,188
eager to learn more about Nostr.

1079
00:57:22,758 --> 00:57:27,578
But I have a hard time seeing the why it's such a different thing.

1080
00:57:27,771 --> 00:57:30,191
you know, influencers will still influence.

1081
00:57:30,241 --> 00:57:32,975
They will still play the same game as they're playing now.

1082
00:57:32,975 --> 00:57:34,355
They'll just be playing it for sats.

1083
00:57:34,405 --> 00:57:38,245
If anything, that might even give them a bigger incentive to.

1084
00:57:39,025 --> 00:57:43,975
To post stuff that attracts a lot of views and attracts a lot of attention,

1085
00:57:43,985 --> 00:57:48,105
because that will lead directly to them, receiving a lot of sats.

1086
00:57:49,075 --> 00:57:52,755
it a solution or is it just amplifying the problem?

1087
00:57:52,785 --> 00:57:54,675
I'm, I have mixed feelings about this.

1088
00:57:54,675 --> 00:57:55,384
I, I, I don't know.

1089
00:57:55,385 --> 00:57:57,235
I haven't made up my mind yet.

1090
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,210
You're going to send me down another rabbit hole after today's chat.

1091
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:02,730
Uh, I really want to explore that more.

1092
00:58:02,730 --> 00:58:03,530
That's very interesting.

1093
00:58:03,630 --> 00:58:08,090
I, I do, if your posts get zapped more on Nostr, does that, is there some sort of

1094
00:58:08,110 --> 00:58:11,300
algo on Nostr where that post gets shown

1095
00:58:11,425 --> 00:58:16,895
that's, well, that's up to each and every, uh, uh, uh, relay, right?

1096
00:58:17,165 --> 00:58:18,105
It's called a relay, right?

1097
00:58:18,431 --> 00:58:20,401
I think it's more like the client can

1098
00:58:20,736 --> 00:58:21,366
Oh, client.

1099
00:58:21,396 --> 00:58:21,636
Yeah.

1100
00:58:21,686 --> 00:58:21,966
Yeah.

1101
00:58:22,636 --> 00:58:22,886
Yeah.

1102
00:58:22,896 --> 00:58:23,086
But

1103
00:58:23,251 --> 00:58:28,461
I mean, you, you can, you can put settings in your client to say, show more popular

1104
00:58:28,461 --> 00:58:31,561
stuff, I think, but it's not really good.

1105
00:58:32,051 --> 00:58:36,111
Uh, I've, I've not had any experience other than that you just show things

1106
00:58:36,111 --> 00:58:38,431
in descending order basically.

1107
00:58:39,036 --> 00:58:44,366
So, so if you flip not your keys, not your coins, that means.

1108
00:58:44,940 --> 00:58:47,850
uh, not your bitcoins, not your information.

1109
00:58:48,100 --> 00:58:49,110
You know what I mean?

1110
00:58:49,340 --> 00:58:53,460
The only information that is actually yours is still Bitcoin.

1111
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,280
that's the only , string of information that you can actually own.

1112
00:58:57,831 --> 00:59:02,478
otherwise, it's still up to the, the, the Nostr clients and the relays and

1113
00:59:02,478 --> 00:59:06,681
stuff to, curate whatever comes from you and to other people's feeds.

1114
00:59:07,191 --> 00:59:08,541
You don't have any say in that.

1115
00:59:08,551 --> 00:59:11,031
So it doesn't really matter if you own your.

1116
00:59:13,261 --> 00:59:18,111
I think there ought to be a bigger debate about the pros and cons of Nostr because

1117
00:59:18,111 --> 00:59:23,121
it's, it's sort of like, oh, Jack Dorsey is on board and he put 50 million into it.

1118
00:59:23,121 --> 00:59:27,441
It must be good because he's a monk now, I'm yet to be convinced.

1119
00:59:27,441 --> 00:59:30,191
I'm not saying I'm against it or anything like that.

1120
00:59:30,191 --> 00:59:30,761
I'm, I'm.

1121
00:59:31,161 --> 00:59:35,571
Eager to learn more and eager to have people try to poke holes in

1122
00:59:35,571 --> 00:59:39,881
my, uh, you know, devil's advocate arguments that I've given to you now.

1123
00:59:40,770 --> 00:59:41,550
I think that's healthy.

1124
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,414
We need devil's advocates, arguments.

1125
00:59:44,604 --> 00:59:46,664
I saw a really good podcast earlier in the week.

1126
00:59:46,894 --> 00:59:49,604
There's a little bit of a debate between, uh, uh, my buddy,

1127
00:59:49,604 --> 00:59:50,904
George Gammon and Jeff Booth.

1128
00:59:51,324 --> 00:59:52,654
And a lot of people were giving George

1129
00:59:52,809 --> 00:59:53,379
saw that.

1130
00:59:53,554 --> 00:59:54,084
Yeah.

1131
00:59:54,396 --> 00:59:56,166
I, I, I love a devil's advocate.

1132
00:59:56,286 --> 00:59:59,576
I think, I think it's good that people poke holes in all of our arguments.

1133
00:59:59,576 --> 01:00:00,996
I welcome it, but personally,

1134
01:00:01,426 --> 01:00:07,256
And yeah, I, I, um, I gave Jeff a call afterwards and I complimented him on that

1135
01:00:07,486 --> 01:00:10,226
episode because it's, uh, it's so good.

1136
01:00:10,396 --> 01:00:11,866
He's so good in debates.

1137
01:00:12,706 --> 01:00:14,001
Like, uh, he just.

1138
01:00:14,331 --> 01:00:20,671
Takes an attack and, uh, turns it into courtesy and, uh, a counter

1139
01:00:20,671 --> 01:00:21,881
argument on a silver plate.

1140
01:00:21,881 --> 01:00:22,961
And it's just beautiful.

1141
01:00:23,342 --> 01:00:24,182
he's one of a kind,

1142
01:00:24,690 --> 01:00:26,350
He's definitely one of a kind.

1143
01:00:27,194 --> 01:00:31,214
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1170
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1173
01:01:55,677 --> 01:01:57,297
in a social and engaging way.

1174
01:01:57,677 --> 01:02:00,467
And supporters can send sats to their favorite projects.

1175
01:02:00,914 --> 01:02:04,214
Geyser has also recently integrated with Zapps and Podcasting 2.

1176
01:02:04,214 --> 01:02:04,674
0.

1177
01:02:05,024 --> 01:02:08,574
So every Zapp sent to a Geyser address shows up on the Geyser page.

1178
01:02:09,334 --> 01:02:10,794
We have a Geyser fund ourselves.

1179
01:02:10,804 --> 01:02:12,964
It's the best way to support our show directly with Bitcoin.

1180
01:02:13,974 --> 01:02:17,834
So whether you're a creator or a supporter, check out geyser at geyser.

1181
01:02:17,834 --> 01:02:18,734
fund today.

1182
01:02:19,155 --> 01:02:23,125
Well, I think, hey, I think, I think we're drifting towards maybe the, the end of

1183
01:02:23,145 --> 01:02:29,232
our time here, but Luke, any last words about your, your views on the near term?

1184
01:02:29,232 --> 01:02:32,202
What do you think we can expect in the next few months for Bitcoin?

1185
01:02:32,935 --> 01:02:34,555
Or anything else you want to talk about?

1186
01:02:35,460 --> 01:02:37,030
Anything else I want to talk about?

1187
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:41,770
I, I think, uh, right now I would not have a clue what's going to happen, uh,

1188
01:02:41,770 --> 01:02:45,440
in Bitcoin, apart from the fact that we got a halving in around 210 days.

1189
01:02:45,850 --> 01:02:48,150
Uh, a lot of people are saying, you know, the halving's.

1190
01:02:48,380 --> 01:02:50,210
Priced in as they do every year.

1191
01:02:50,550 --> 01:02:52,500
I don't think the Harvey's priced in.

1192
01:02:52,530 --> 01:02:53,860
So I expect number go up.

1193
01:02:54,180 --> 01:02:58,090
Uh, I think like if we're looking really near term again, I, I really hate near

1194
01:02:58,090 --> 01:03:01,570
term price predictions, but over the past couple of weeks, it's really interesting,

1195
01:03:01,570 --> 01:03:03,620
the Dixie has been rallying really hard.

1196
01:03:03,650 --> 01:03:07,095
So the U S dollar comparatively is getting stronger than other fiat currencies.

1197
01:03:07,095 --> 01:03:07,360
Normally that decimates Bitcoin.

1198
01:03:09,650 --> 01:03:11,580
Normally, that's a risk off environment.

1199
01:03:11,850 --> 01:03:14,260
Normally, that's when bonds are bid.

1200
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:18,280
People buy bonds, they sell stocks and other assets like Bitcoin, and they

1201
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:20,720
buy gold bonds and the Dixie rallies.

1202
01:03:20,970 --> 01:03:21,590
Not this time.

1203
01:03:21,690 --> 01:03:23,690
It was really interesting in the past couple of weeks, Bitcoin's

1204
01:03:23,690 --> 01:03:25,460
actually kind of diverged from gold.

1205
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:29,100
Bitcoin's been pumping, gold's been dumping as well as every

1206
01:03:29,100 --> 01:03:30,270
other asset class over the past.

1207
01:03:30,535 --> 01:03:31,285
3 4 weeks.

1208
01:03:31,795 --> 01:03:35,745
Uh, so there's a little bit of near term, uh, little bit of near term stuff, but,

1209
01:03:35,785 --> 01:03:37,578
you know, I prefer to zoom out, a lot.

1210
01:03:37,628 --> 01:03:43,852
I, I, I really do think Bitcoin, uh, is, uh, the, digital industrial revolution 2.

1211
01:03:43,852 --> 01:03:43,992
0.

1212
01:03:43,992 --> 01:03:45,532
Um, I think Bitcoin's that big.

1213
01:03:45,627 --> 01:03:49,677
The industrial revolution brought us these wave of five technological

1214
01:03:49,677 --> 01:03:51,237
revolutions every 50 years.

1215
01:03:51,607 --> 01:03:54,417
And I think Bitcoin is like Michael Saylor says, it's the

1216
01:03:54,417 --> 01:03:57,087
portal into the digital universe.

1217
01:03:57,087 --> 01:04:01,457
I really look at Bitcoin on a multi thousand year kind of time horizon.

1218
01:04:01,457 --> 01:04:02,337
I think Bitcoin.

1219
01:04:02,622 --> 01:04:05,702
Is going to create this wave of technological innovation that

1220
01:04:05,712 --> 01:04:07,202
we haven't seen in a long time.

1221
01:04:07,212 --> 01:04:10,782
Like we are living through this great stagnation that people like Peter Thiel

1222
01:04:11,302 --> 01:04:15,962
and Eric Weinstein correctly identify, but they just haven't quite popped their

1223
01:04:15,962 --> 01:04:18,012
finger on what's actually causing that.

1224
01:04:18,012 --> 01:04:19,332
And I think it is Bitcoin.

1225
01:04:19,432 --> 01:04:19,842
I think.

1226
01:04:20,107 --> 01:04:24,647
Bitcoin is going to do all of the things that led to the industrial revolution.

1227
01:04:24,677 --> 01:04:29,237
So what happened and what gave us this wave of 250 years of innovation, it was

1228
01:04:29,247 --> 01:04:33,607
increasing monetary velocity via central banking in the 1600s, whether that be a

1229
01:04:33,607 --> 01:04:35,247
good or a bad thing, that's what happened.

1230
01:04:35,257 --> 01:04:37,207
And that helped our economy thrive.

1231
01:04:37,567 --> 01:04:42,627
Uh, we saw, um, the wave of capitalism and, um, through the declaration

1232
01:04:42,627 --> 01:04:46,377
of independence and the French revolution in the 1770s, we saw all

1233
01:04:46,377 --> 01:04:47,747
of these property rights spring up.

1234
01:04:47,767 --> 01:04:50,007
I don't think it's a coincidence.

1235
01:04:50,137 --> 01:04:53,977
That we saw this wave of, you know, capitalism, democracy is a shit coin.

1236
01:04:54,237 --> 01:04:57,133
but we saw more property rights in the 1770s and that gave

1237
01:04:57,133 --> 01:04:58,233
us all of this innovation.

1238
01:04:58,543 --> 01:05:02,433
And we saw, uh, an enormous increase in the amount of energy we used in the 1600s

1239
01:05:03,053 --> 01:05:05,473
when we found coal as an energy source.

1240
01:05:05,473 --> 01:05:08,963
I think all of those key ingredients led to 250 years of

1241
01:05:08,963 --> 01:05:10,443
prosperity that we have seen.

1242
01:05:10,693 --> 01:05:12,793
And I think Bitcoin is going to do that for the digital age.

1243
01:05:12,853 --> 01:05:16,053
It increases the amount of energy we use and it captures wasted energy.

1244
01:05:16,303 --> 01:05:19,333
Gives property rights to every single person around the world, irrespective

1245
01:05:19,333 --> 01:05:23,303
of where they are or whether they are unbanked, like the 2 billion ish people

1246
01:05:23,303 --> 01:05:24,553
who are unbanked around the world.

1247
01:05:24,893 --> 01:05:27,023
and Bitcoin increases monetary velocity.

1248
01:05:27,053 --> 01:05:29,213
Um, so I, again, always like to zoom out.

1249
01:05:29,483 --> 01:05:31,183
Um, I look at Bitcoin on that kind of.

1250
01:05:31,568 --> 01:05:33,678
how does it increase monitor velocity?

1251
01:05:34,348 --> 01:05:38,688
Well, right now, we have all of this friction, uh, swapping fiat currency

1252
01:05:38,688 --> 01:05:40,598
to fiat currency, and we also have,

1253
01:05:40,608 --> 01:05:41,608
But, but it's.

1254
01:05:41,842 --> 01:05:45,182
devil's advocate argument for that, because it's deflationary.

1255
01:05:45,275 --> 01:05:49,365
and until, uh, until everything divided by 21 million, nothing

1256
01:05:49,365 --> 01:05:50,855
is priced in correctly.

1257
01:05:51,142 --> 01:05:54,832
and when that happens, when people realize that I'm not selling this.

1258
01:05:55,602 --> 01:05:56,062
ever.

1259
01:05:56,202 --> 01:05:57,612
Like, because it's so fucking good.

1260
01:05:57,632 --> 01:06:03,672
Like, at least more and more people will trend towards that,

1261
01:06:04,232 --> 01:06:06,582
then I, Oh, this is awesome.

1262
01:06:06,582 --> 01:06:07,582
I want to spend it all.

1263
01:06:07,812 --> 01:06:09,162
Like, it doesn't matter.

1264
01:06:09,722 --> 01:06:13,822
Uh, people will spend money, use money less and less.

1265
01:06:13,872 --> 01:06:16,722
That's, that's the, the argument I was trying to make before.

1266
01:06:17,273 --> 01:06:22,203
If I, if I try to come up with an example, it would be if 10 really,

1267
01:06:22,203 --> 01:06:26,763
really rich friends decide to have dinner every night, each night,

1268
01:06:27,043 --> 01:06:28,623
one of them will pick up the bill.

1269
01:06:29,463 --> 01:06:31,633
So 10 transactions are made in total.

1270
01:06:31,837 --> 01:06:34,910
if they're nice and wealthy, like all Bitcoiners will be in the future.

1271
01:06:35,270 --> 01:06:41,670
So, and, if 10 poor people decide to eat together every night, each one of them

1272
01:06:41,670 --> 01:06:45,310
will buy their own pack of noodles because they can't afford to pick up the bill.

1273
01:06:45,670 --> 01:06:47,730
So, a hundred transactions happen.

1274
01:06:48,100 --> 01:06:52,580
This might be a bad analogy or whatever, but, but still.

1275
01:06:52,878 --> 01:06:57,128
I do suspect that fewer transactions will happen over time

1276
01:06:57,308 --> 01:06:59,588
in a deflationary environment.

1277
01:06:59,848 --> 01:07:03,048
So the velocity of money is sort of, in my mind, that's sort of a

1278
01:07:03,088 --> 01:07:08,578
Keynesian metric to begin with, and not something to necessarily strive for.

1279
01:07:08,888 --> 01:07:12,878
Micro transactions is a very fiat y thing in my mind.

1280
01:07:13,148 --> 01:07:17,688
Like when you have to pay to go to the bathroom in the central station somewhere,

1281
01:07:18,158 --> 01:07:20,568
uh, and you have to have a coin to...

1282
01:07:20,858 --> 01:07:24,908
To get your cards for the supermarket or whatever, those are all very

1283
01:07:24,908 --> 01:07:26,898
fiat inventions, in my mind.

1284
01:07:26,908 --> 01:07:31,582
And, I see a Bitcoin standard where you pay for something maybe once a year, and

1285
01:07:31,582 --> 01:07:36,022
then there's some sort of subscription model, because that's way, way easier

1286
01:07:36,022 --> 01:07:39,732
for both the customer and the provider or whatever good a service it is.

1287
01:07:40,172 --> 01:07:43,198
So I see, velocity of money going down and not up.

1288
01:07:44,928 --> 01:07:47,378
And now there's a, there's another thought nugget for you.

1289
01:07:48,138 --> 01:07:51,278
I love Thought Nuggets, I, I think I agree with you in a hundred years,

1290
01:07:51,368 --> 01:07:55,458
I think in a hundred years, there'll be less transactions, I think getting

1291
01:07:55,458 --> 01:07:59,538
there, I'm not sure how that's going to unfold, I think I agree though, monetary

1292
01:07:59,538 --> 01:08:04,258
velocity is potentially not the best way to frame it, maybe I should say global

1293
01:08:04,318 --> 01:08:08,658
interconnectedness, a little bit less catchy, but, uh, like I think central

1294
01:08:08,708 --> 01:08:09,268
love it.

1295
01:08:09,508 --> 01:08:10,048
Love it.

1296
01:08:10,723 --> 01:08:14,673
Yeah, like, I think central banking gave the ability for more trade.

1297
01:08:14,843 --> 01:08:18,063
Uh, you can, it's simply, it's a lot easier to send paper receipts to Europe

1298
01:08:18,293 --> 01:08:19,893
than it is to ship a boatload of gold.

1299
01:08:19,903 --> 01:08:22,563
And I think Bitcoin does that for the 1.

1300
01:08:22,693 --> 01:08:24,883
7 billion people who are unbanked around the world.

1301
01:08:25,093 --> 01:08:27,713
All of a sudden they can send value to someone on the other side of

1302
01:08:27,713 --> 01:08:31,173
the world, irrespective of them being in Venezuela or Africa.

1303
01:08:31,458 --> 01:08:32,008
Yeah.

1304
01:08:32,158 --> 01:08:37,468
Uh, I'm just trying to make the argument that just, it's great that it's easier.

1305
01:08:37,558 --> 01:08:39,618
The Lightning Network is fantastic.

1306
01:08:39,628 --> 01:08:44,668
Like it's, it's absolutely awesome to be able to, to accept Lightning

1307
01:08:44,738 --> 01:08:47,588
and to pay with Lightning wherever I'm at the Bitcoin conference.

1308
01:08:47,648 --> 01:08:48,348
I love it.

1309
01:08:48,998 --> 01:08:53,275
having said that though, I suspect that making something easy, it's not.

1310
01:08:53,610 --> 01:08:57,360
necessarily going to increase its usage.

1311
01:08:58,730 --> 01:09:04,850
I mean, it's probably easier to manufacture a horse cart these days than

1312
01:09:04,940 --> 01:09:11,843
in the 19th century, but still, there's Less demand for them, also bad analogy,

1313
01:09:12,093 --> 01:09:18,903
but I think as we move into the future, we will see, we'll see people figure

1314
01:09:18,903 --> 01:09:24,490
out other ways of interacting with one another's value systems, like, Bitcoin

1315
01:09:24,730 --> 01:09:30,970
will be used, but not necessarily nondeclassification of Bitcoin.

1316
01:09:31,505 --> 01:09:38,012
We can see people just, trading with their reputational capital, I mean, value for

1317
01:09:38,012 --> 01:09:42,042
value is not only SATs, it's, services.

1318
01:09:42,070 --> 01:09:45,762
in general, like the way I see it, we're, engaged in a trade.

1319
01:09:45,762 --> 01:09:48,582
Right now we're exchanging information, one with one another.

1320
01:09:48,932 --> 01:09:50,582
you are giving me your life.

1321
01:09:50,762 --> 01:09:52,742
I'm giving you my life right now.

1322
01:09:52,795 --> 01:09:54,155
This is this moment.

1323
01:09:54,605 --> 01:09:55,945
It's not coming back.

1324
01:09:56,045 --> 01:09:57,345
I'm giving it away to you.

1325
01:09:57,385 --> 01:10:01,358
And you're gracious enough to give away piece of your life to me right now.

1326
01:10:01,358 --> 01:10:04,725
And I'm wandering away here, I think.

1327
01:10:04,735 --> 01:10:10,685
But I'd like to plant these little, these little seeds of something

1328
01:10:10,685 --> 01:10:14,105
that will lead to that which you can do without your own mind.

1329
01:10:14,105 --> 01:10:14,125
Thank you.

1330
01:10:14,525 --> 01:10:17,425
That's the big insight at the, uh, the, the Sherry on top of

1331
01:10:17,425 --> 01:10:20,415
this, that if you don't have the craving, you don't need the thing.

1332
01:10:20,855 --> 01:10:23,845
You can be happy with just your Bitcoin stack and a toothbrush, which,

1333
01:10:23,895 --> 01:10:27,235
which your wall there behind you alludes to that you're already doing.

1334
01:10:27,235 --> 01:10:29,335
You're already living like that.

1335
01:10:30,300 --> 01:10:30,710
Look at it.

1336
01:10:30,730 --> 01:10:31,810
There's nothing behind me.

1337
01:10:31,810 --> 01:10:32,860
There's holes in the wall.

1338
01:10:33,270 --> 01:10:34,260
I'm stacking, baby.

1339
01:10:35,033 --> 01:10:35,623
Wonderful.

1340
01:10:35,653 --> 01:10:39,143
And maybe that is the perfect note to end things on.

1341
01:10:39,143 --> 01:10:43,023
So I'll, I'll, I'll repeat the question, but, and, uh, Knut

1342
01:10:43,153 --> 01:10:44,863
can not interrupt this time.

1343
01:10:45,223 --> 01:10:47,213
Uh, any final thoughts, Luke?

1344
01:10:48,528 --> 01:10:51,498
I don't think I have any.

1345
01:10:51,753 --> 01:10:53,633
I think we've covered so much today.

1346
01:10:54,043 --> 01:10:57,043
My final thought would be, thank you so much for having me.

1347
01:10:57,043 --> 01:10:58,133
I really appreciate it.

1348
01:10:58,203 --> 01:11:02,951
And if there's anyone out there, considering, you know, they're

1349
01:11:02,951 --> 01:11:04,531
listening to this and they've made it this far Bitcoiner.

1350
01:11:07,026 --> 01:11:08,746
Reach out and just talk to more Bitcoiners.

1351
01:11:08,886 --> 01:11:13,342
I think, I was initially very scared to talk to Bitcoiners, uh, when I was a lot

1352
01:11:13,342 --> 01:11:15,382
earlier in my Bitcoin rabbit hole journey.

1353
01:11:15,672 --> 01:11:16,342
They scared me.

1354
01:11:16,342 --> 01:11:19,572
They were toxic on Twitter back in 2019, but it was some of the

1355
01:11:19,582 --> 01:11:21,682
best, uh, things I could have done.

1356
01:11:21,712 --> 01:11:24,052
So if you knew, if you're learning about Bitcoin, reach

1357
01:11:24,052 --> 01:11:27,572
out, talk to more Bitcoiners, uh, spread the Bitcoin message.

1358
01:11:27,639 --> 01:11:28,919
and thank you so much for having me, gentlemen.

1359
01:11:29,477 --> 01:11:29,957
Wonderful.

1360
01:11:29,957 --> 01:11:32,277
And where can everyone find you, by the way?

1361
01:11:33,042 --> 01:11:38,442
So I will be shitposting on Twitter, I, um, am making videos on the Money Matters

1362
01:11:38,442 --> 01:11:42,760
YouTube channel, a couple of videos a week, yeah, if you want to tell me they're

1363
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:47,260
shit, or if you want to tell me you don't like, uh, me for any reason, send

1364
01:11:47,260 --> 01:11:51,707
me your hate mail, I am open to it, I, you'll find me on Twitter, I'm everywhere.

1365
01:11:52,070 --> 01:11:55,490
Well, look, we appreciate what you and what you do a lot.

1366
01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:00,785
And I, I love this conversation and I'd like to continue preferably

1367
01:12:00,815 --> 01:12:04,795
in real life sometimes or away from keyboard, as we say.

1368
01:12:05,022 --> 01:12:08,032
yeah, thank you very much for coming on our show and, uh, good luck with

1369
01:12:08,032 --> 01:12:11,542
everything you do and just reach out if there's anything you want.

1370
01:12:12,537 --> 01:12:12,917
thank you.

1371
01:12:12,917 --> 01:12:14,177
I really appreciate that.

1372
01:12:14,197 --> 01:12:16,707
Uh, that means a lot, uh, coming from yourself, Knut.

1373
01:12:16,807 --> 01:12:19,257
I've read two of your books, not, not four.

1374
01:12:19,257 --> 01:12:20,347
I think you have four now.

1375
01:12:20,347 --> 01:12:24,177
I've read, uh, Infinity Divided by 21 Million and, uh,

1376
01:12:24,617 --> 01:12:25,917
Sovereignty Through Mathematics.

1377
01:12:25,957 --> 01:12:26,947
That's the other one I've read.

1378
01:12:26,997 --> 01:12:28,747
So it means a lot coming from yourself.

1379
01:12:29,087 --> 01:12:29,887
Thank you so much.

1380
01:12:31,247 --> 01:12:31,727
Thank you.

1381
01:12:31,777 --> 01:12:35,447
And, uh, yeah, hope you enjoy the, the other two books.

1382
01:12:36,307 --> 01:12:37,077
I'll get there.

1383
01:12:37,137 --> 01:12:37,557
I'll get there.

1384
01:12:37,567 --> 01:12:39,227
Praxeology is the next one on my list.

1385
01:12:40,317 --> 01:12:40,747
Yeah.

1386
01:12:40,747 --> 01:12:40,817
Yeah.

1387
01:12:40,877 --> 01:12:42,937
I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, afterwards.

1388
01:12:43,137 --> 01:12:45,607
So make sure to send a DM or something.

1389
01:12:45,957 --> 01:12:47,227
Anyway, thanks a lot

1390
01:12:47,696 --> 01:12:48,526
Thanks a lot, Luke.

1391
01:12:48,961 --> 01:12:49,621
thanks, Danja.

1392
01:12:49,852 --> 01:12:50,242
Take care.

1393
01:12:51,731 --> 01:12:54,061
So what did you think of that episode with Luke?

1394
01:12:54,241 --> 01:12:55,401
What was your favorite moment?

1395
01:12:55,561 --> 01:12:56,331
Let us know.

1396
01:12:56,721 --> 01:12:59,921
You can send us a boostergram on Fountain, leave us a comment on YouTube,

1397
01:13:00,071 --> 01:13:01,941
or get in touch on Nostr or Twitter.

1398
01:13:02,621 --> 01:13:04,761
If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like the episode

1399
01:13:04,761 --> 01:13:05,961
and subscribe to the channel.

1400
01:13:06,401 --> 01:13:10,151
Our show's sponsors are Amber App, Wasabi Wallet, Orange Pill

1401
01:13:10,171 --> 01:13:12,461
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1402
01:13:12,801 --> 01:13:14,501
Check out their details in the description.

1403
01:13:15,341 --> 01:13:16,271
That's all for now.

1404
01:13:16,651 --> 01:13:19,121
See you next time and thanks for listening.