Building Club Orange with Matteo Pellegrini | Bitcoin Infinity Show #185

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Matteo, welcome back to the Bitcoin Infinity Show. Nice to have you here.

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Knut, thanks for having me. It's been a while.

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It has been a while. I don't even remember, were we the Freedom Footprint show still when

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you were last on? I can't remember. I think you were on when we had rebranded. And speaking

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of rebrands, another one of my favorite Bitcoin apps has rebranded from Orange Pill app to

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now Club Orange. Can you tell us a little bit about that, please?

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Yes, well, you know, the number one reason why we rebranded is because my wife told me that she came up with the name Orange Pilab, which is not true.

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I said, I'm going to change the name so you can't tell me this anymore.

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No, I'm just kidding.

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But she did actually claim that she was the creator of Orange Pilab.

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But in any way, no, I mean, joking aside, Orange Pill Up was cool, but it has some issues that, you know, the biggest one was basically that it was getting misspelled all the time in ways that you can't even believe it.

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So one time I went to an accountant here in LA, right?

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So English speaking, I'm almost English speaking person.

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And, you know, I was given the name of the company, Orange Pill Up, right?

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and he wrote orange obviously you can't misspell that t-i-l-l and then up up till i'm like yeah i'm

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like okay this is a sign if the guy in front of me cannot you know whatever so anyway so

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yeah people will misspell p-i-l-l-e-d so number one the misspelling was a problem number two

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the length was the problem in fact people would start calling opa which is cool obviously it's a

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cool it's a cool uh you know acronym problem is if you go on google or in the app store or anywhere

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or twitter or nostor wherever you go and you type opa nothing comes up you wouldn't find orange

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collab and then the last point was the word peel it was it's it's it wasn't exactly the best word

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to have in a in a social network it kind of sounded like a pharmacy or some drugs you know

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whatever so anyway so we decided to we decided to change the name we went on a journey of discovery

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and we come out with so many names you were in the group chat so you might remember some

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and then eventually we landed on club orange which i think is pretty cool the main advantage is

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number one you cannot misspell club like how do you say club in swedish

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so it's very similar yeah italian club french club spanish club so it's very easy to uh to get it

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also it's kind of also gives like more of a it's funny because in the onboarding of the app

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since we launched, we said we created a private club for big corners. So the word club has been

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there since the beginning. But we never, you know, we never use it. So a club is more like

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open. It's more like France community belonging than Orange Peel. So I think, you know, I think

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it works better. And what I'm, you know, what I'm really surprised is all the feedback that I got.

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maybe people just want to be nice. I don't know. But everybody says it's a great name. I love it.

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So the feedback has been great. And you know, Club Orange is the name.

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Yeah. And Club doesn't mean grandfather in German, which Opa does.

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It's funny because my daughter has a grandfather, of course, my wife's father,

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which is American by of German origin. And she called him Opa.

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Is he on Orangeville or is he on Club Orange?

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He's the, he, you know, he's the stuff, he owns a bank. So I preemptively ban him from joining the

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app. And you got a Club Orange sweater on that must be new. And that's a very cool design. So

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So it has the logo, which is the intersection of an actual orange,

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but the sweater has the lower part as a sunset, right?

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With a boat or something in the way.

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I didn't make this.

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Somebody on the app made it.

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Yeah, the logo essentially, if you want to talk about the logo,

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the logo originally was an orange with the slices.

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I remember that group chat too.

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Right.

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but then I'm like I don't know you know it's too much orange uh orange not the word not the color

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that the the fruit which has nothing to do with the app or bitcoin or anything and so I went so I

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start playing with the with the slices and then I remove one I say oh okay this is pretty cool

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because it's like a keyhole it's a lighthouse yeah so I think it works I think it's a nice logo

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actually. It sure does. And yeah, here's a disclaimer for people who don't know. I've been

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an advisor for Club Orange or formerly Orange Pill App now for almost three years, I think.

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And we have this, and it's a great group of advisors. We have these wonderful meetings

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every month where we brainstorm new ideas for the app. So a lot has happened since Orange Pill App

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was first launched. It's really a completely different app at this point, I would say.

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And I love some of the features of it.

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I love the wallet that has been there for a while now.

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I also love that it's super simple.

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I love the group chats and the feel of the thing, the events,

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how easily you can find not only other Bitcoiners, but merchants.

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And I do see more people on it wherever I go.

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And as you know, I travel quite a lot and there's always like more and more Bitcoiners close by than the last time I checked wherever I go.

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So it's pretty cool to see it.

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And also there's some misconceptions about the app.

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The first thing is that, Matteo, is it a gay dating app?

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No, it's not a gay dating app.

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It can be used as such, though, if you're in need of a gay dating app.

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This is probably the best app for that purpose.

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So not excluding anyone.

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Oh, my God.

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Well, the joke is that it's a dating app only if you're good looking.

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So it would be for you, not for me.

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But, you know, you know this, but maybe people don't know.

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somebody got married through the app um two years ago and now they have a baby i hope they call him

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matteo i don't know yeah nice yeah oh and but it's not it's not it's a woman and man it's woman and

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man just for the record for the record yeah yeah but uh it's uh yeah you know it's a social network

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and uh when you put when you put people together somebody's gonna date somebody's gonna build a

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business. Somebody is going to make friends. Somebody is going to start some sport team.

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You know, it's, it's about putting people together and, uh, you know, and that's, I think for

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me, that's where the magic happens instead of being online all the time and being on

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Twitter all the time and listening to the podcast and the YouTube. And, you know, I think the

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magic it's like, so I have a meetup, obviously have a meetup every Saturday morning, uh,

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9am. I think I'm pretty sure I'm the only person in the planet that has a meetup on Saturday at 9

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in the morning. Every week, by the way, it's a weekly meetup. And we got seven, 10, sometimes 15

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people. And it's the best part of the week for me. It's like go out, you talk to the kids. And

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also the cool part is that sometimes we don't even talk about Bitcoin. It's just a friend's

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a way to meet with your friends with the excuse of Bitcoin.

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And Bitcoin is kind of the filter, you know, and then you already know you're on the same page

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on a lot of subjects that you don't have to go through. Like if you meet a stranger,

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you know, it might be a liberal or a Republican or a vegan or a car, you know,

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it's the process is long to say, oh, okay, I actually like this guy. Let's be friends.

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And when you go through Bitcoin, and you had this beautiful phrase that we used to have

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on our website, that when you go through the journey and the rabbit hole and the loneliness

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and being ridiculed by pretty much everybody, especially even today, honestly, but especially

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a few years ago, it kind of selects you and what kind of person you are.

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And so it's very cool when you can meet other people that are on the same journey as you,

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you know, in person, you know, especially.

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Yeah, I think the quote, my quote that you had on the website was something about how

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you can skip all the bullshit about the weather and go straight into like Hegelian philosophy

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or quantum mechanics or whatever you want to talk about.

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Like you can, you can, you can skip, skip the bullshit basically.

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Yes, yes.

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Not saying you have to talk about super intellectual stuff, but with Bitcoiners, I find it easier to not talk about superficial things.

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That's what separates Bitcoiners from others, I think.

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The conversations are never superficial.

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I think there's, you know, because honestly, I mean, if you're a Bitcoiner or a Bitcoin maxi, you must have rejected a lot of mainstream ideas.

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And so by default, you're very open-minded to new ideas, you know, like you're in a very special category of people that basically have rejected a lot of what comes from mainstream media and academia and science and all that kind of, you know, that kind of fiat world.

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And so it's, yeah, it's very intellectually, how would you say, stimulating.

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Yeah, it's selects for people who are more immune to politicized things to talk about, or politicized opinions or politicized anything. It's more for people who see through that veil.

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And yeah, like Bitcoin itself, Bitcoiners are more apolitical than most.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, so yeah, and there are a ton of other cool features and we'll get to that soon.

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The video chatting and the tap saps is one of my favorite new features.

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But let's like tell people what this thing is and how it works today.

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So the first thing that differentiates Orange Pill App from other social media networks is that there's no feed.

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So this is not for you to get hooked to an algorithm.

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That's not the purpose of the app at all.

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There is no algorithm.

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No, there is no algorithm.

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But it's a paid app, so there's a small fee every month, or you can pay a yearly membership, and you can still buy a lifetime membership, I believe, right?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Of course.

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Of course.

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and all you have to give up to sign up is an email address.

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And that might be any email address.

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That's the only information you collect about the user, right?

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Or an Oster MPUB, which is even more private.

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And there's no default sharing of your location or anything like that.

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You can share your location if you want,

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and then other people see a circle, right?

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Tell us about it.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So yeah, number one, yes, you can sign out with the email.

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Obviously, you can make one app or not through AMP up, which is even more, I guess, private.

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And so basically, the choice is to the user what they want to disclose.

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They can use their name.

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They can use no name or their pictures, whatever.

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Now, when it comes to the location, number one, we never show locations.

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We only show distances.

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Now, distances can be turned off.

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which means I don't know how far you are from me, right?

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Which is kind of the point of the app

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because, you know, the goal of the app is to find people

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that are in your vicinity so that you can meet them.

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So obviously we need to know roughly where you are.

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We asked the user approximate location,

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which is a 10 miles radius, which is very wide.

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But we have made that, now we have made that optional

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a few months ago because now we have enough features

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that don't require the location.

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like for example the wallet, the group chats, that kind of stuff.

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So the user can allow location, which again is approximate.

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We never show it. We only show the distances, which by the way,

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we also approximate the distances on top of the approximation of the location It very let say it very approximate In fact people used to be upset how approximate this thing is Say no wait a second I was in India and now I in America but it still showed me as India

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I'm like, did you open the app?

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Because we don't do ads, right?

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We don't do ads because the business model is very simple.

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You pay to use the product, so you're not the product.

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And so because we don't do ads, we don't care about your location when you're not using the app.

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So if you fly and you don't open the app, we use your, it's called last known location.

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I mean, people used to be upset about this stuff in the other direction.

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Like I said, well, if you open the app, then we, you know, we check your new location and we show you nearby events, merchants, and obviously people, Bitcoiners.

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So that's the main goal of the app is a social network, not a social media.

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So media means there is a feed, there is some media to consume.

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That's the definition of social media.

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Social network, which used to be, by the way, social network used to be Facebook and Twitter

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used to be social network because all you can see is your friends.

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Now it's like, now it's like, you don't see, now you don't see your friends.

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You see whatever the algo wants you to see.

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Yeah, it's more media than social.

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Yeah, exactly.

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It's the new media essentially.

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But we believe, yeah, we go in the opposite direction essentially.

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We just said, okay, I think we've reached peak online.

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In fact, if you look at the stats, the trend is going down, especially with AI, it's going

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to be even more offline economy.

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So I like to think about the online economy and the offline economy.

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And I think for the past 20 years, if you were betting on the online economy, it was

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the bet to be.

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It was the good bet.

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Going forward, I think the offline economy, the restaurants, the theater, the concerts,

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the conference, the meetup, the fitness, all these kind of industries, they're going to

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boom because AI, so essentially that we're not going to be able to compete with AI online.

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slop like if there's more slop than people don't exactly like what's the point like i don't care

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about what chadgpt thinks about bitcoin honestly i care about what newt cares i care about what newt

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thinks about bitcoin i don't care about chadgpt opinion of bitcoin but if i i'm on twitter or

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and I don't know if I'm looking at Knut feed

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or Knut AI agent feed,

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then it's kind of like lose the whole value.

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Yeah.

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Cleb slop beats AI slop any day.

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Yes.

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True Cleb slop for the win.

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In real life slop beats AI slop.

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Yeah, so the point of Clarence is again,

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it's a it's a the technical definition is a location based social network so you download

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the app you sign up you paid so by the way the reason why we charge there's a paywall is so we

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don't have bots and scammers and spammers which of course is a huge problem with social net

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and you know even even we get some that's crazy to me it was crazy like

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we are a small niche app everybody has to pay there is no free trials

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even we you know because now we got so many members we still get some spammers and scammers

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every now and then you must think like how big is that problem when there is no paywall it's just

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like incredible yeah yeah yeah so but there is no befriend function on club orange right you you

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don't you can start a conversation with people but there's no database tracking who knows who

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no no no that's yeah exactly there is no follow right no the only thing you can do is connect and

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have a conversation yeah but you can also see which groups you you have in common i guess

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yeah so there is some web of trust to it in the in that sense if you belong to right because

211
00:18:13,968 --> 00:18:19,288
there's a lot of communities on there so you can join a lot of different i'm in a group for instance

212
00:18:19,288 --> 00:18:25,768
called Bitcoin Writing and Books. And there's a bunch of people in there. So if you want to,

213
00:18:26,648 --> 00:18:32,008
I'm not advocating for anyone doing this, but if you want to meet a random Bitcoiner in a dark alley

214
00:18:32,008 --> 00:18:38,408
to sell some dirty fiat, there are some ways of getting to know the person first. I mean,

215
00:18:38,408 --> 00:18:42,968
it's a very good app for getting to know one another. You can, for instance, have a video

216
00:18:42,968 --> 00:18:49,928
call with the person like all the features of like a signal or a whatsapp are on orange pill

217
00:18:49,928 --> 00:18:55,568
app and more you can actually zap people tap zapping it's called where you just tap your

218
00:18:55,568 --> 00:19:01,228
screen and you instantly send one set per tap to the other person i think that's a very neat

219
00:19:01,228 --> 00:19:06,868
function and that is one of the the cool zapping functions the other is geo zapping tell us more

220
00:19:06,868 --> 00:19:07,508
about that, please.

221
00:19:08,768 --> 00:19:11,208
So we launched a wallet in February.

222
00:19:11,488 --> 00:19:13,028
Somebody said, well, wouldn't it be cool

223
00:19:13,028 --> 00:19:14,788
if you can zap people based on the location

224
00:19:14,788 --> 00:19:16,648
since we have that data, right?

225
00:19:16,748 --> 00:19:17,848
So that's a cool idea.

226
00:19:18,368 --> 00:19:20,268
So we built this thing called GeoZap,

227
00:19:20,968 --> 00:19:24,688
which is essentially you can type in the wallet

228
00:19:24,688 --> 00:19:29,708
a city, a state, a country, a continent,

229
00:19:30,088 --> 00:19:32,668
or earth, and you zap everybody on earth.

230
00:19:32,668 --> 00:19:40,188
my dream is that one day you can zap somebody on mars if you live long enough

231
00:19:40,188 --> 00:19:46,088
you can zap somebody on mars it would take like seven minutes ten minutes to get it but you know

232
00:19:46,088 --> 00:19:51,768
but anyway so might work with the custodial lightning but not on chain that's not very

233
00:19:51,768 --> 00:19:56,248
feasible you know because of the center of hash of course but that's a different discussion

234
00:19:56,248 --> 00:19:58,888
I remember the article

235
00:19:58,888 --> 00:20:00,408
yeah no exactly

236
00:20:00,408 --> 00:20:02,548
yeah custodial

237
00:20:02,548 --> 00:20:05,248
GeoZap couldn't work if you don't do custodial

238
00:20:05,248 --> 00:20:06,668
you know that's a lot of things

239
00:20:06,668 --> 00:20:08,948
it's a trade off essentially

240
00:20:08,948 --> 00:20:11,388
but obviously you can withdraw from the wallet

241
00:20:11,388 --> 00:20:12,348
anytime

242
00:20:12,348 --> 00:20:13,788
any amount

243
00:20:13,788 --> 00:20:16,208
to your self custodial

244
00:20:16,208 --> 00:20:18,688
node or wallet whatever it is

245
00:20:18,688 --> 00:20:20,268
so GeoZap

246
00:20:20,268 --> 00:20:21,808
essentially like

247
00:20:21,808 --> 00:20:24,268
took over because now we have done

248
00:20:24,268 --> 00:20:26,008
more than 3 million transactions

249
00:20:26,008 --> 00:20:32,708
in 10 months. I think it makes us the fastest growing wallet, lighting wallet, pretty sure.

250
00:20:33,468 --> 00:20:37,848
But anyway, so yeah, you can set up 16,000 people at once. You can set people in,

251
00:20:38,768 --> 00:20:43,768
if there is a conference, you can set people in that city. The other cool part is that you can

252
00:20:43,768 --> 00:20:52,148
add a message and a link. So we inadvertently created essentially an advertising platform on

253
00:20:52,148 --> 00:20:59,968
Bitcoin. Yeah. And I've seen people use it several times, and I'm using it in the area I was in,

254
00:20:59,968 --> 00:21:05,848
like in El Salvador last time, for instance, suddenly there's a GeoSAP in San Salvador about

255
00:21:05,848 --> 00:21:11,948
some event going on there. So it's working. And if you think into the future a bit, this has

256
00:21:11,948 --> 00:21:17,728
limitless potential. If there's a tsunami in fucking Bali or something, we could all,

257
00:21:17,728 --> 00:21:23,528
Bitcoiners could come together and there could be a relief fund in seconds, literally.

258
00:21:23,848 --> 00:21:24,728
It's super cool.

259
00:21:25,068 --> 00:21:27,688
The potential is just limitless for a thing like that.

260
00:21:28,028 --> 00:21:29,068
It's awesome.

261
00:21:29,848 --> 00:21:37,168
Yes, the ability to unilaterally send sats to somebody without asking for an invoice,

262
00:21:37,668 --> 00:21:39,328
an URL, you don't have to ask for anything.

263
00:21:40,228 --> 00:21:47,168
If they're on the app and they enable the location, then you can zap that person.

264
00:21:47,728 --> 00:21:52,808
An infinite amount of stats, an infinite amount of times, based on where they are.

265
00:21:52,928 --> 00:21:54,208
I mean, approximately, obviously.

266
00:21:55,028 --> 00:21:59,048
Imagine what kind of Pokemon game you could build on top of this.

267
00:21:59,468 --> 00:22:00,468
Like, it's insane.

268
00:22:01,508 --> 00:22:01,788
Yeah.

269
00:22:01,888 --> 00:22:02,628
Truly insane.

270
00:22:02,628 --> 00:22:08,508
Instead of, you know, fetching virtual eggs in a cafe somewhere, you could actually get paid.

271
00:22:09,408 --> 00:22:11,328
And geocaching, you remember that?

272
00:22:11,328 --> 00:22:17,328
when you walked around and found goodies and stuff in reality through some...

273
00:22:17,328 --> 00:22:19,648
I never played Pokemon, but I got the ideas.

274
00:22:20,188 --> 00:22:21,448
You could do...

275
00:22:21,448 --> 00:22:22,528
This was not Pokemon.

276
00:22:23,328 --> 00:22:24,808
Geocaching was another thing.

277
00:22:25,108 --> 00:22:30,548
So it's another game which was combined reality with internet stuff.

278
00:22:30,808 --> 00:22:36,408
So someone planted a little bag of goodies or something or things

279
00:22:36,408 --> 00:22:40,708
and hid it from everyone else and then put out the location of the thing

280
00:22:40,708 --> 00:22:42,948
and others had to find it through this app.

281
00:22:43,768 --> 00:22:44,108
Wow.

282
00:22:44,908 --> 00:22:47,028
This could be done with, definitely be done.

283
00:22:47,128 --> 00:22:50,788
I mean, you could put a paper wallet or an open dime.

284
00:22:51,028 --> 00:22:54,408
We could do something easier.

285
00:22:54,408 --> 00:23:00,648
We could say, if you go to this location, automatically you get a thousand sets.

286
00:23:00,768 --> 00:23:01,268
Yeah, exactly.

287
00:23:02,588 --> 00:23:08,308
And if you read this message on this paper at this location, you get another thousand sets.

288
00:23:08,528 --> 00:23:10,288
Yeah, there's so many.

289
00:23:10,288 --> 00:23:11,788
Yeah, there's so many things we can do.

290
00:23:12,528 --> 00:23:16,288
So this is merely the beginning of something big, I think.

291
00:23:16,288 --> 00:23:16,428
Yeah.

292
00:23:17,648 --> 00:23:21,648
And there are so many, like this is such a cool app,

293
00:23:22,408 --> 00:23:26,188
especially the filtering function of having it a paid thing,

294
00:23:26,228 --> 00:23:29,288
because it's not much, but you do get rid of all the spammers

295
00:23:29,948 --> 00:23:33,708
and you get the Bitcoiner to Shitcoiner ratio

296
00:23:33,708 --> 00:23:37,588
is like just through the roof if you compare it to X, for instance.

297
00:23:37,588 --> 00:24:07,168
Yeah. So the analogy I tell when I talk to investor, say, imagine I tell you, hey, I love to play basketball. And you say, oh, me too. Then I show up with a tennis racket. That'll never happen, right? Because we both know what basketball is and how it works. But in Bitcoin, you can say, I love Bitcoin. I say, me too. And then I start talking about NFT or Solana.

298
00:24:07,588 --> 00:24:08,628
It's very common.

299
00:24:08,948 --> 00:24:14,688
So this is like in this community of crypto slash Bitcoin,

300
00:24:15,048 --> 00:24:17,388
because obviously in crypto, everybody has Bitcoin.

301
00:24:18,048 --> 00:24:18,248
Yeah.

302
00:24:18,288 --> 00:24:18,768
All of them.

303
00:24:19,048 --> 00:24:20,088
That's the base.

304
00:24:20,808 --> 00:24:23,808
That's the point of crypto scams, to get people's Bitcoins.

305
00:24:24,368 --> 00:24:25,008
Yeah, exactly.

306
00:24:26,228 --> 00:24:31,328
And so there is this dynamic where you can say,

307
00:24:31,328 --> 00:24:34,248
yes, I have Bitcoin, but I'm also a shitconer.

308
00:24:34,248 --> 00:24:39,408
So yeah, actually, honestly, the reason why I built this idea

309
00:24:39,408 --> 00:24:43,908
because I went to a Bitcoin meetup three years ago now, more, maybe four.

310
00:24:44,688 --> 00:24:47,088
And it was a Bitcoin meetup.

311
00:24:47,088 --> 00:24:51,348
And then I went there, drove an hour, and then it was like NFT,

312
00:24:51,348 --> 00:24:52,788
Ethereum, this was like 20.

313
00:24:53,388 --> 00:24:53,748
Yeah.

314
00:24:53,748 --> 00:24:55,908
And I'm like, wow, what a waste of time.

315
00:24:56,908 --> 00:25:00,088
And that's actually how I started thinking about this problem.

316
00:25:00,088 --> 00:25:03,288
And then I eventually landed on the social network.

317
00:25:04,248 --> 00:25:12,188
So the question for me was, how do I prevent this app to become like that meetup?

318
00:25:12,968 --> 00:25:18,488
And I don't know if you know this, but at some point I was going to do a test to sign up.

319
00:25:18,648 --> 00:25:20,668
I didn't have the paywall idea yet.

320
00:25:21,048 --> 00:25:23,168
I had a 60 second test.

321
00:25:23,848 --> 00:25:26,768
Like, you know, how many, what's the maximum supply of Bitcoin?

322
00:25:27,308 --> 00:25:28,588
What's the halving block?

323
00:25:28,588 --> 00:25:32,648
And then I figure, well, you could cheat this game.

324
00:25:32,648 --> 00:25:36,728
And then what if you're a newbie and you just want to learn about Bitcoin, then you can't sign up.

325
00:25:37,528 --> 00:25:42,248
Eventually landed on the paywall. But, you know, yeah, I mean, also the paywall is like Bitcoin.

326
00:25:42,248 --> 00:25:48,888
When you think about it, a Bitcoin works because it's not free. Everybody has to pay. Whether you're

327
00:25:48,888 --> 00:25:56,008
a sailor or a player with 1 million sats, the network doesn't care how many Bitcoins you have.

328
00:25:56,008 --> 00:26:02,728
have. If you want to use the network, you have to pay the fees. There's no discrimination.

329
00:26:02,728 --> 00:26:07,468
There is no advantages. It's very, so it's kind of the same. Honestly, it's kind of the

330
00:26:07,468 --> 00:26:15,148
same concept. If you want to use Club Orange, you have to pay. And then you know that everybody

331
00:26:15,148 --> 00:26:22,108
has also paid, which gives you more confidence to then meet them and start a relationship,

332
00:26:22,108 --> 00:26:23,828
whatever it may be.

333
00:26:23,828 --> 00:26:26,208
So it's proof of work, essentially.

334
00:26:26,208 --> 00:26:30,948
It is, and proof of results, which is my preferred term.

335
00:26:30,948 --> 00:26:34,248
So yeah, and how much is the membership nowadays?

336
00:26:34,248 --> 00:26:36,348
I can't remember.

337
00:26:36,348 --> 00:26:38,108
It's based by geography.

338
00:26:38,108 --> 00:26:46,868
Generally speaking, let's say in the US, in the US is $5 a month, $40 a year, and the

339
00:26:46,868 --> 00:26:49,468
lifetime, which is very cheap, it's $100.

340
00:26:49,468 --> 00:26:51,748
So you can pay once and be done.

341
00:26:52,108 --> 00:26:58,788
By the way, you can pay in Bitcoin, but Apple and Google don't let us tell you once you sign

342
00:26:58,788 --> 00:26:59,788
up.

343
00:26:59,788 --> 00:27:03,868
So you have to do on the website because people tell me all the time, oh, why can I pay in

344
00:27:03,868 --> 00:27:04,868
Bitcoin?

345
00:27:04,868 --> 00:27:06,608
I said, well, I wish we could take Bitcoin on the hour.

346
00:27:06,608 --> 00:27:08,088
It would be amazing.

347
00:27:08,088 --> 00:27:14,848
You can pay in Bitcoin if you go on cluborange.org and there is a giga chat membership, which

348
00:27:14,848 --> 00:27:18,108
is like, you know, you can pay extra basically.

349
00:27:18,108 --> 00:27:20,108
You don't get anything more like a donation.

350
00:27:20,108 --> 00:27:21,868
Not at the moment, but maybe in the future.

351
00:27:21,868 --> 00:27:22,868
I guess.

352
00:27:22,868 --> 00:27:25,068
Yeah, we're actually going to

353
00:27:25,068 --> 00:27:26,848
we're actually going to have a special

354
00:27:26,848 --> 00:27:28,848
membership,

355
00:27:28,848 --> 00:27:31,248
which is in the work right now,

356
00:27:31,248 --> 00:27:34,348
which is going to be very expensive.

357
00:27:34,348 --> 00:27:35,448
But it's not through the app.

358
00:27:35,448 --> 00:27:36,188
It's not through apps.

359
00:27:36,188 --> 00:27:38,188
It's kind of like a like a like a

360
00:27:38,188 --> 00:27:41,188
VIP area of the Club

361
00:27:41,188 --> 00:27:53,976
Orange but you can get a giga show membership today I think it And some people do you know they just want to support the mission I guess Maybe you get access to a lounge area or something in the future

362
00:27:54,656 --> 00:27:56,156
Yes, yes, yes.

363
00:27:56,256 --> 00:27:57,676
Maybe there's some special events.

364
00:27:57,876 --> 00:27:58,396
Who knows?

365
00:27:59,236 --> 00:27:59,736
Fantastic.

366
00:28:00,236 --> 00:28:02,996
I mean, there's infinite potential in this.

367
00:28:03,196 --> 00:28:03,636
Absolutely.

368
00:28:03,636 --> 00:28:06,956
You should check out our latest sponsor, Bitvault.

369
00:28:07,256 --> 00:28:09,656
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370
00:28:09,656 --> 00:28:20,316
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371
00:28:20,656 --> 00:28:27,716
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372
00:28:28,016 --> 00:28:31,096
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373
00:28:31,456 --> 00:28:36,856
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374
00:28:37,476 --> 00:28:37,976
Brush your teeth.

375
00:28:37,976 --> 00:28:41,216
Our favorite hardware wallet is, of course, the Bitbox.

376
00:28:41,496 --> 00:28:44,836
Check out our friends at Bitbox at bitbox.swiss.

377
00:28:45,336 --> 00:28:52,836
There you'll find a bunch of different products, but the main one, the Bitbox O2 Nova with the Bitcoin firmware installed,

378
00:28:53,196 --> 00:28:59,176
is a fantastic hardware wallet and the software that comes along with it has a fantastic user interface.

379
00:28:59,456 --> 00:29:01,396
It is one of my personal favorites.

380
00:29:01,576 --> 00:29:03,356
It's easy to use and it's super secure.

381
00:29:03,676 --> 00:29:05,936
It's my personal favorite hardware wallet.

382
00:29:05,936 --> 00:29:12,496
it's super slick super privacy focused and super easy to use so go to bitbox.swiss

383
00:29:12,496 --> 00:29:20,116
swiss and use i mean swiss and use code infinity for a discount check it out now

384
00:29:20,116 --> 00:29:27,436
yeah so so speaking of this google the app store and the play store here and the barriers to entry

385
00:29:27,436 --> 00:29:32,976
and how you can't use sets because of this jurisdiction this is where my ancap hat comes

386
00:29:32,976 --> 00:29:38,856
on again. And think about how much innovation all of this interventionism from the state

387
00:29:38,856 --> 00:29:45,316
just hinders by putting up these barriers everywhere. And Google and Apple have to

388
00:29:45,316 --> 00:29:52,055
play ball and they have to follow suit and just do whatever each jurisdiction's financial

389
00:29:52,055 --> 00:29:57,456
bullshit tells them to do, which means it's harder to innovate because we don't dare to

390
00:29:57,456 --> 00:30:04,316
build products that send and receive sets completely freely without any worry we can do

391
00:30:04,316 --> 00:30:09,616
it to a certain extent but it's it's kind of crazy when you think about it like that and i know a

392
00:30:09,616 --> 00:30:15,516
couple of apps that don't even try to get onto these play stores and app stores because of that

393
00:30:15,516 --> 00:30:20,696
because they they need to be and then of course the reach is like nothing in comparison to if they

394
00:30:20,696 --> 00:30:26,516
would have been on the stores you have any thoughts about that well i can tell you so we have a web

395
00:30:26,516 --> 00:30:33,876
app. We have a web app, which is kind of fully developed. You can't do exactly everything,

396
00:30:34,196 --> 00:30:38,736
but you can do a lot. You can use the wallet. You can use the messages. You can address

397
00:30:38,736 --> 00:30:44,496
VPU2 events. So we have a web app and it's like, so we have 19,000 members on Club Orange now.

398
00:30:44,956 --> 00:30:50,276
And every day we get, let's say a thousand people using the app, right? 1000, maybe 2000.

399
00:30:50,276 --> 00:30:58,396
the web app is 10 people one is me one is my developer so it's like nobody uses it yeah so

400
00:30:58,396 --> 00:31:03,276
i mean the rich you know yeah people want to use up that's that's the thing that i've learned

401
00:31:03,276 --> 00:31:08,756
an app is just so convenient it's on your phone so you don't have to log in to a website

402
00:31:08,756 --> 00:31:15,836
yeah i mean when it comes to google and apple i think uh the problem with the payment is that

403
00:31:15,836 --> 00:31:20,156
they can't take a cut. I don't think they care that much about

404
00:31:20,156 --> 00:31:24,176
people paying Bitcoin. The problem is that they wouldn't be able to take a cut

405
00:31:24,176 --> 00:31:28,436
like they can in the fiat world. Because essentially what happens is

406
00:31:28,436 --> 00:31:32,476
in fact, when you sign up through Apple or Google

407
00:31:32,476 --> 00:31:36,516
you don't even pay us, you pay them. Then they take a

408
00:31:36,516 --> 00:31:40,216
cut and then they send us the money sometimes

409
00:31:40,216 --> 00:31:44,156
60 days later. So your $5

410
00:31:44,156 --> 00:31:52,856
dollars a month I'll get four 60 days later which obviously it's the biggest uh it's lost the economy

411
00:31:52,856 --> 00:32:00,295
so much because I cannot reinvest I cannot hire people you know in Bitcoin I get paid immediately

412
00:32:00,295 --> 00:32:08,216
no commission whatsoever um and I can redeploy the next minute essentially instead of waiting 60 days

413
00:32:08,216 --> 00:32:13,856
you know they have the distribution of like billions of people on their ecosystem you have to play you

414
00:32:13,856 --> 00:32:16,535
to play the game as they say on the field.

415
00:32:17,316 --> 00:32:20,436
I would love, man, I would love that people could just click a button,

416
00:32:20,596 --> 00:32:22,596
paying Bitcoin through the app.

417
00:32:22,716 --> 00:32:24,295
That would make my life much easier.

418
00:32:24,416 --> 00:32:28,196
I would get less email, less reviews that are negative

419
00:32:28,196 --> 00:32:29,336
because we can't pay in Bitcoin.

420
00:32:29,336 --> 00:32:33,916
I think eventually, you know, in the US, as you know,

421
00:32:34,276 --> 00:32:38,496
the political wins, at least for now, are very pro-Bitcoin, pro-crypto.

422
00:32:39,236 --> 00:32:41,816
So I wouldn't be shocked that at some point,

423
00:32:41,816 --> 00:32:46,016
Apple or Google would allow people to use, I don't know, stable coins, for example.

424
00:32:46,795 --> 00:32:53,576
I think stable coins are going to be used widely on the apps. Yeah, I think we're going in a world

425
00:32:53,576 --> 00:32:57,876
of stable coins, to be honest with you. I don't know what you think of stable coins. Of course,

426
00:32:57,876 --> 00:33:03,856
it's not Bitcoin. I think there is a use case for it. Yeah, I think there is somewhat

427
00:33:03,856 --> 00:33:11,436
unfortunate, necessary stepping stone for many people and for things like Google and Apple too,

428
00:33:11,436 --> 00:33:18,236
I guess before they but it's a step in the right direction and the wrong direction at the same time

429
00:33:18,236 --> 00:33:24,996
if that can be true because they if they morph into CBDCs that's very bad but if they just more

430
00:33:24,996 --> 00:33:31,555
can stay what they are and faster fiat that's better I mean it's already a CBDC if you're

431
00:33:31,555 --> 00:33:36,816
using a credit card or a debit card right yeah exactly it's a gateway to Bitcoin I think it's

432
00:33:36,816 --> 00:33:43,596
also a gateway to Bitcoin because it's like, oh, okay, so I can use money on the blockchain.

433
00:33:43,596 --> 00:33:50,376
Now I can also, once you get people to that place that they use the blockchain, it's easier

434
00:33:50,376 --> 00:33:55,236
for them to understand, I think the value of Bitcoin, which is on the blockchain.

435
00:33:55,236 --> 00:33:56,856
It's like a stepping stone.

436
00:33:56,856 --> 00:33:57,856
Okay.

437
00:33:57,856 --> 00:34:00,016
I don't have to use my credit card anymore.

438
00:34:00,016 --> 00:34:03,336
I can use this USDT, USDC.

439
00:34:03,336 --> 00:34:05,576
I think it's a gateway to Bitcoin.

440
00:34:06,816 --> 00:34:12,596
blockchain is a dangerous word though like it can also lead to shit coinery like i prefer time

441
00:34:12,596 --> 00:34:18,416
of course but you know stable coins don't have a time chain if you're talking to the masses you know

442
00:34:18,416 --> 00:34:24,175
it's uh you know you have to start from blockchain right yeah yeah that's another thing blockchain

443
00:34:24,175 --> 00:34:30,036
that's another thing with the word orange pill it's it's very common amongst bitcoiners every

444
00:34:30,036 --> 00:34:36,135
Every Bitcoiner knows what orange pilling someone needs and what it means, but no one

445
00:34:36,135 --> 00:34:38,655
outside of Bitcoin knows at all what it means.

446
00:34:38,655 --> 00:34:42,016
They don't even know what red pill or they haven't seen the matrix.

447
00:34:42,016 --> 00:34:43,916
It's kind of ridiculous.

448
00:34:43,916 --> 00:34:44,916
Yeah.

449
00:34:44,916 --> 00:34:45,916
Yes.

450
00:34:45,916 --> 00:34:56,196
I remember when we got shut down by orange in the phone company, they shut us down, crazy

451
00:34:56,196 --> 00:34:57,256
story.

452
00:34:57,256 --> 00:35:03,096
I wrote an email, an open letter where I talk about the matrix. I say, maybe these guys have

453
00:35:03,096 --> 00:35:10,456
never watched the matrix. So let me tell them about the matrix. Yeah. That was a crazy story.

454
00:35:10,456 --> 00:35:15,655
That was a crazy 35 days. Yeah. I remember that. That was weird.

455
00:35:16,376 --> 00:35:22,376
Yeah. In retrospect, we should have changed the name back then, you know, but I like a fight.

456
00:35:22,376 --> 00:35:29,076
And it's such a great example of how intellectual property laws are bullshit to begin with.

457
00:35:29,076 --> 00:35:35,256
I mean, if you're big enough, you can just create these artificial monopolies and defend

458
00:35:35,256 --> 00:35:37,216
a word like orange.

459
00:35:37,216 --> 00:35:44,056
Like orange is a word that should be usable by anyone on the planet because it means orange.

460
00:35:44,056 --> 00:35:45,756
It's a color and a fruit.

461
00:35:45,756 --> 00:35:46,756
What?

462
00:35:46,756 --> 00:35:47,756
Yeah, no.

463
00:35:47,756 --> 00:35:49,256
Yeah, it's a strange world.

464
00:35:49,256 --> 00:35:54,256
Obviously, I'm very now like I've learned a lot because of the incident.

465
00:35:54,756 --> 00:36:01,135
You can honestly, you can just so you know, two companies can use Orange

466
00:36:02,016 --> 00:36:04,376
as long as the class is different.

467
00:36:04,976 --> 00:36:06,596
So class or company.

468
00:36:07,596 --> 00:36:11,635
Yeah. So essentially you can have a company called Orange that does

469
00:36:13,135 --> 00:36:15,175
pizza. Plumbing.

470
00:36:15,635 --> 00:36:18,135
Or plumbing or blockchains, but not.

471
00:36:19,256 --> 00:36:21,615
Not a telecommunication company.

472
00:36:21,615 --> 00:36:26,876
So it's not as bad as it sounds, but yeah, it was an education for sure.

473
00:36:27,835 --> 00:36:32,516
In fact, now that we have this new name, I don't even know if I want to get a trademark.

474
00:36:33,256 --> 00:36:36,856
Because last time we did that, we opened a kind of worm there.

475
00:36:37,556 --> 00:36:38,056
I don't know.

476
00:36:39,716 --> 00:36:40,076
Yeah.

477
00:36:40,076 --> 00:36:48,436
yeah no like i say the only reason to get a trademark is to stop others from getting your

478
00:36:48,436 --> 00:36:55,016
trademark before you do like and it creates this weird incentive to chase something that's basically

479
00:36:55,016 --> 00:37:00,956
also you know you could you could also you know you could say that it's not just that it's also

480
00:37:00,956 --> 00:37:07,236
like somebody could create an app called club orange that does exactly the same thing and then

481
00:37:07,236 --> 00:37:08,776
confuse people

482
00:37:08,776 --> 00:37:11,216
and maybe instead of Bitcoin is about

483
00:37:11,216 --> 00:37:12,876
shitcoin

484
00:37:12,876 --> 00:37:15,016
you know there's also

485
00:37:15,016 --> 00:37:17,276
Bitcoin.com is a

486
00:37:17,276 --> 00:37:17,596
very

487
00:37:17,596 --> 00:37:21,216
good example of that that had nothing

488
00:37:21,216 --> 00:37:23,076
to do with Bitcoin and

489
00:37:23,076 --> 00:37:25,216
the Bitcoin handle on

490
00:37:25,216 --> 00:37:27,216
X same thing there had nothing

491
00:37:27,216 --> 00:37:29,115
to do with Bitcoin the point is

492
00:37:29,115 --> 00:37:30,756
there's no seal there's no seal of Bitcoin

493
00:37:30,756 --> 00:37:32,696
no no no so there's no one

494
00:37:32,696 --> 00:37:34,315
can like counter sue them

495
00:37:34,315 --> 00:37:36,896
or blockchain.info

496
00:37:36,896 --> 00:37:38,796
had nothing to do with the actual blockchain.

497
00:37:39,315 --> 00:37:39,635
Really?

498
00:37:40,236 --> 00:37:42,675
Coinbase has nothing to do with Coinbase transactions.

499
00:37:44,096 --> 00:37:45,536
There's a lot of confusion.

500
00:37:46,196 --> 00:37:47,296
Yeah, there's a lot of confusion.

501
00:37:48,216 --> 00:37:48,516
No.

502
00:37:49,056 --> 00:37:49,335
Yeah.

503
00:37:50,135 --> 00:37:53,056
But yeah, so we'll see if we get a trademark,

504
00:37:53,056 --> 00:37:56,655
but I'm a little scar from the experience.

505
00:37:57,416 --> 00:37:58,496
Yeah, I can imagine.

506
00:37:58,736 --> 00:38:01,296
Anyway, it's a great app to have,

507
00:38:01,376 --> 00:38:03,036
not only at conferences, of course,

508
00:38:03,096 --> 00:38:04,436
but wherever you are in the world.

509
00:38:04,436 --> 00:38:07,216
I guess you have the most users in the US, right?

510
00:38:07,216 --> 00:38:08,155
So it's the app is-

511
00:38:08,155 --> 00:38:09,216
Well, yeah.

512
00:38:09,436 --> 00:38:17,256
So the split is like, obviously the US is the most, you know, there's 300 million people.

513
00:38:17,456 --> 00:38:23,655
It's the most, I guess, crypto slash Bitcoin friendly country now and blah, blah, blah.

514
00:38:23,856 --> 00:38:32,896
But we have a lot of Canadian, UK, Germany actually has a lot of Bitcoiners.

515
00:38:32,896 --> 00:38:34,516
There's a lot of meetups in Germany.

516
00:38:35,356 --> 00:38:38,315
And then it's Australia, Australia.

517
00:38:38,996 --> 00:38:41,096
Also, countries like the Philippines.

518
00:38:41,635 --> 00:38:43,135
There's a lot of people in the Philippines.

519
00:38:43,436 --> 00:38:45,096
Obviously, El Salvador, you know.

520
00:38:45,356 --> 00:38:48,655
Yeah, I mean, it's also like North Korea.

521
00:38:49,296 --> 00:38:50,315
There's people in North Korea.

522
00:38:50,996 --> 00:38:52,456
How many?

523
00:38:53,056 --> 00:38:53,516
Three.

524
00:38:53,675 --> 00:38:55,155
That's fantastic.

525
00:38:56,236 --> 00:38:59,615
If you go to the wallet and you type North Korea,

526
00:39:00,175 --> 00:39:02,476
you can zap people in North Korea.

527
00:39:02,476 --> 00:39:09,835
and good luck to you i guess fantastic it's everywhere sometimes i'm like how do these

528
00:39:09,835 --> 00:39:18,536
people even like like iceland saudi arabia it's it's iceland has a lot of mining yeah that's true

529
00:39:18,536 --> 00:39:24,815
yeah yeah so is innovation easier now with this administration than the last one like do you think

530
00:39:24,815 --> 00:39:27,776
Bitcoin companies have started to loosen up?

531
00:39:28,436 --> 00:39:33,815
For sure, we wouldn't have launched a wallet

532
00:39:33,815 --> 00:39:37,476
under the previous administration, for sure.

533
00:39:38,356 --> 00:39:39,815
Yeah, it's definitely, I mean,

534
00:39:39,936 --> 00:39:41,576
whether you like Trump or not,

535
00:39:41,716 --> 00:39:44,976
it's obviously more crypto slash Bitcoin friendly,

536
00:39:45,115 --> 00:39:46,135
like a lot more.

537
00:39:46,956 --> 00:39:49,315
Literally in doing, you know,

538
00:39:49,315 --> 00:39:54,356
it's definitely a new chapter.

539
00:39:54,815 --> 00:40:02,655
in the US when it comes to Bitcoin. It might end in four years or three years, whatever it may be.

540
00:40:02,655 --> 00:40:07,536
It might end. So you might want to do stuff while you can. But yeah, it's definitely more. I mean,

541
00:40:07,536 --> 00:40:13,776
there's a story that I can tell now because it's almost public. I won't name the bank,

542
00:40:13,776 --> 00:40:21,776
but I go to a coffee place with my daughter every Sunday and I met this woman. And one day I had a

543
00:40:21,776 --> 00:40:29,076
a Bitcoin hat. Actually this one, this one right here, this Bitcoin hat. And so she goes like,

544
00:40:29,196 --> 00:40:34,896
oh, are you in Bitcoin? Is that a Bitcoin hat? Yeah. Yeah. So we start talking. So they have

545
00:40:34,896 --> 00:40:40,655
a Bitcoin company, et cetera, et cetera. And she basically told me that she's the head of crypto

546
00:40:40,655 --> 00:40:49,216
of a major US bank. And they're about to launch Bitcoin custody to their retail.

547
00:40:49,216 --> 00:40:55,356
Look, you know, so imagine Citibank is not Citibank, but it's much in Citibank.

548
00:40:55,516 --> 00:40:56,956
It's just millions and millions.

549
00:40:57,436 --> 00:41:01,916
Well, the banks are going to be allowed to people to store Bitcoin.

550
00:41:02,815 --> 00:41:10,576
I mean, my dream is that I can spend Bitcoin from a card without, honestly, I mean, I know

551
00:41:10,576 --> 00:41:15,756
you're not a fan of banks, but it's just the natural, I think it's the natural next step

552
00:41:15,756 --> 00:41:19,496
that I can have my paycheck go to a bank account,

553
00:41:20,536 --> 00:41:23,296
transfer into Bitcoin or not.

554
00:41:23,296 --> 00:41:27,996
And then I can go and spend from that debit card

555
00:41:27,996 --> 00:41:31,476
from my Bitcoin bonds without selling,

556
00:41:31,476 --> 00:41:33,876
without thinking how much money.

557
00:41:35,076 --> 00:41:48,643
So the Bitcoin bank sorry the banks are coming into the Bitcoin world in the US in a couple of months major banks But wouldn that have to mean that they would have to drop the capital gains tax

558
00:41:48,863 --> 00:41:53,443
which they should in every country, but that's like the key.

559
00:41:54,303 --> 00:41:55,723
Yeah, I know, I know.

560
00:41:56,203 --> 00:41:57,003
That would be nice.

561
00:41:57,103 --> 00:41:57,843
That would be very nice.

562
00:41:58,023 --> 00:41:58,963
That would be very nice.

563
00:41:59,123 --> 00:42:03,323
I don't know what's the, you know, I don't know behind the scenes what the discussion.

564
00:42:03,323 --> 00:42:10,923
I would assume that if you let people use like major banks' cards to spend Bitcoin, eventually

565
00:42:10,923 --> 00:42:13,023
they might say, okay, it's like a currency.

566
00:42:13,383 --> 00:42:20,263
But it's definitely a way to entrench Bitcoin into the financial system.

567
00:42:20,483 --> 00:42:26,063
So then it's in the interest of the banks, the governments to actually protect.

568
00:42:26,383 --> 00:42:27,923
You know, maybe we can talk about this.

569
00:42:27,923 --> 00:42:32,703
I have, I guess, a very unique view on quantum fund.

570
00:42:33,323 --> 00:42:35,123
I don't know if you've seen it on X.

571
00:42:35,883 --> 00:42:37,603
Everybody's super worried about quantum, right?

572
00:42:38,423 --> 00:42:39,323
Yeah, I'm not.

573
00:42:39,443 --> 00:42:41,703
Maybe you can tell me why, but let me tell you why I'm not.

574
00:42:42,483 --> 00:42:47,443
I am not worried about quantum because I think there's only two entities

575
00:42:47,443 --> 00:42:51,743
that can develop quantum computing capable of breaking ECTSA.

576
00:42:52,163 --> 00:42:54,583
One is the Chinese government and one is the U.S. government.

577
00:42:55,303 --> 00:42:58,943
It's not going to be knut in his basement for the quantum computing.

578
00:42:59,323 --> 00:43:00,603
No, I'm not even trying.

579
00:43:00,603 --> 00:43:08,283
No, but the point is, or even North Korea, right? I think that the mistake in quantum

580
00:43:08,283 --> 00:43:13,723
FUD is thinking everybody's going to have quantum computing. No, it's not going to be like that.

581
00:43:13,723 --> 00:43:20,443
It's going to be like kind of like the Manhattan Project. The US government is going to take over

582
00:43:20,443 --> 00:43:25,563
quantum development from Google or Microsoft, whatever gets closer to the quantum, like a

583
00:43:25,563 --> 00:43:29,163
real quantum because right now, quantum computing is more like a marketing thing.

584
00:43:30,123 --> 00:43:36,843
And then the question is, why would the US government steal the Bitcoin? I don't see why

585
00:43:36,843 --> 00:43:42,843
they would do it, especially if the Bitcoin is entrenched into the US financial system.

586
00:43:42,843 --> 00:43:47,323
No, it would just reduce the value of the assets. So they'd probably be better off keeping whatever

587
00:43:47,323 --> 00:43:53,243
they have than steal. Yeah, but why would they do it? What would be the incentive of them stealing it?

588
00:43:53,243 --> 00:43:56,483
well same incentive as stealing all the gold

589
00:43:56,483 --> 00:43:58,263
they've stalled over the last

590
00:43:58,263 --> 00:43:58,903
hundred years

591
00:43:58,903 --> 00:44:01,643
but the gold was back in the dollar

592
00:44:01,643 --> 00:44:03,423
stealing is all they do

593
00:44:03,423 --> 00:44:06,323
taxes and inflation

594
00:44:06,323 --> 00:44:07,023
and so on

595
00:44:07,023 --> 00:44:10,103
the gold was back in the dollar

596
00:44:10,103 --> 00:44:11,903
that's why they had to steal the gold

597
00:44:11,903 --> 00:44:12,683
you know

598
00:44:12,683 --> 00:44:15,483
it's a different proposition

599
00:44:15,483 --> 00:44:17,723
so devil's advocate that

600
00:44:17,723 --> 00:44:18,863
why wouldn't they steal

601
00:44:18,863 --> 00:44:20,383
stealing is all they do

602
00:44:20,383 --> 00:44:23,123
because it's

603
00:44:23,243 --> 00:44:34,823
If Bitcoin, by the time we get to, my argument is this, if by the time we get to quantum computing that is capable of breaking ECDSA, which is probably going to be 10 years, right?

604
00:44:35,143 --> 00:44:36,823
Everybody thinks 10 years.

605
00:44:37,883 --> 00:44:42,003
By then, Bitcoin is maybe a $10 or $23 million asset.

606
00:44:43,044 --> 00:44:46,943
And maybe, I mean, there is ETF in the US.

607
00:44:47,103 --> 00:44:48,443
BlackRock is a funnel.

608
00:44:48,623 --> 00:44:49,083
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

609
00:44:49,163 --> 00:44:51,703
They would destroy a lot of things by doing that.

610
00:44:52,023 --> 00:44:52,544
Correct.

611
00:44:52,544 --> 00:44:54,583
But that's what I think.

612
00:44:54,783 --> 00:44:55,883
That's my argument.

613
00:44:55,883 --> 00:45:01,343
Well, I have an easier theory, and that is that quantum computing won't happen.

614
00:45:01,603 --> 00:45:09,603
Not in the way we think, simply because it's just like life on Mars or the VR explosion.

615
00:45:09,823 --> 00:45:15,603
It's been on the cover of every science magazine for 30 years or a theory of everything.

616
00:45:15,843 --> 00:45:21,843
Like it's one of these headlines that never, never actually becomes a thing.

617
00:45:21,843 --> 00:45:23,143
Yeah, well

618
00:45:23,143 --> 00:45:26,383
Yeah, I mean, AI was also that way

619
00:45:26,383 --> 00:45:27,923
And then, you know, we had some breakthrough

620
00:45:27,923 --> 00:45:32,523
Yeah, yeah, AI is the exception to that, I guess

621
00:45:32,523 --> 00:45:34,363
Then you can also say that, well

622
00:45:34,363 --> 00:45:40,083
General, sentient AI is still, I think

623
00:45:40,083 --> 00:45:41,544
A total science fiction

624
00:45:41,544 --> 00:45:43,603
Because an AI cannot feel uneasy

625
00:45:43,603 --> 00:45:45,303
And therefore it doesn't have agency

626
00:45:45,303 --> 00:45:48,843
Because it cannot want anything

627
00:45:48,843 --> 00:45:51,523
There is no agency at all

628
00:45:51,843 --> 00:45:56,564
No, so it can be the perfect slave, but never its own master.

629
00:45:56,564 --> 00:46:00,683
It can even be a slave because he can't feel anything.

630
00:46:00,683 --> 00:46:01,683
It's just a tool.

631
00:46:01,683 --> 00:46:02,683
Yeah.

632
00:46:02,683 --> 00:46:06,703
Well, a tool is a slave in a sense, but a dead one.

633
00:46:06,703 --> 00:46:11,083
So it doesn't hurt it to be a slave.

634
00:46:11,083 --> 00:46:14,603
We are expanding the word slave.

635
00:46:14,603 --> 00:46:16,083
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

636
00:46:16,083 --> 00:46:18,083
The tool is a better word.

637
00:46:18,083 --> 00:46:19,083
Yeah.

638
00:46:19,083 --> 00:46:35,743
I've written a lot about that. All tools we ever invented have the same single purpose, is to save us time. Save someone time somewhere. So that's the purpose of even a Gucci handbag for a million dollars. It's saving that girl time.

639
00:46:36,743 --> 00:46:37,863
To do what?

640
00:46:38,544 --> 00:46:40,083
Find a billionaire mate.

641
00:46:41,303 --> 00:46:41,863
Bingo.

642
00:46:42,383 --> 00:46:43,283
Yeah, exactly.

643
00:46:43,423 --> 00:46:45,363
Or it's a status signaling.

644
00:46:45,363 --> 00:46:47,803
Yeah, yeah, and that is also a tool

645
00:46:47,803 --> 00:46:49,903
In certain situations for a certain

646
00:46:49,903 --> 00:46:52,363
Type of people, so that's why it exists

647
00:46:52,363 --> 00:46:53,863
Of course, yeah, people

648
00:46:53,863 --> 00:46:55,663
You know, I had this

649
00:46:55,663 --> 00:46:58,223
Theory, I don't know if I ever told you

650
00:46:58,223 --> 00:46:59,403
I think you would like this

651
00:46:59,403 --> 00:47:02,303
One day, I was in New York, when I moved to New York

652
00:47:02,303 --> 00:47:03,423
I don't know, 10 years ago now

653
00:47:03,423 --> 00:47:06,123
I was, so I was walking

654
00:47:06,123 --> 00:47:07,163
On the pavement

655
00:47:07,163 --> 00:47:10,163
And I saw a homeless guy in front

656
00:47:10,163 --> 00:47:11,483
Of a Rolex store

657
00:47:11,483 --> 00:47:13,163
And I'm like

658
00:47:13,163 --> 00:47:14,823
And I'm like

659
00:47:15,363 --> 00:47:17,044
what's the point of Rolex?

660
00:47:17,443 --> 00:47:19,943
Well, we could just give the money to the homeless guy.

661
00:47:20,783 --> 00:47:23,383
And then I kept walking and I saw,

662
00:47:24,303 --> 00:47:25,083
what is it called?

663
00:47:25,203 --> 00:47:26,283
You know, this circle,

664
00:47:27,064 --> 00:47:28,544
the thing that they put on the street

665
00:47:28,544 --> 00:47:32,223
that you can remove to get on the piping?

666
00:47:33,064 --> 00:47:33,544
What is it called?

667
00:47:33,583 --> 00:47:33,983
Manhole.

668
00:47:34,323 --> 00:47:35,483
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

669
00:47:36,023 --> 00:47:36,743
Then I'm like,

670
00:47:37,403 --> 00:47:39,163
oh, that's why you need Rolex.

671
00:47:39,163 --> 00:47:41,803
If you don't have Rolex,

672
00:47:42,143 --> 00:47:44,064
there's no guy building the manhole.

673
00:47:44,064 --> 00:47:52,383
above certain threshold so here's my theory let's see if you like it if you don't have a

674
00:47:52,383 --> 00:48:00,443
luxury segment of the economy or the entertainment segment of the economy then you don't have enough

675
00:48:00,443 --> 00:48:08,443
incentive for people to go and do boring jobs or boring businesses like what is the point of

676
00:48:08,443 --> 00:48:15,143
building manhole which obviously is very boring i'm just giving an example right above a threshold

677
00:48:15,143 --> 00:48:20,723
where you have a house you have a car you can go vacation no you want to build more manhole or you

678
00:48:20,723 --> 00:48:27,183
want to build them faster or you want to be cheaper so that you can afford rolex yeah i would add to

679
00:48:27,183 --> 00:48:33,203
that though yeah yeah i would add to the theory that most of those are are not for the actual

680
00:48:33,203 --> 00:48:40,083
thing itself but they are as you said before for signaling status and when you signal status you

681
00:48:40,083 --> 00:48:46,883
can the hope is that you will one day mate with someone from that societal group or that you will

682
00:48:46,883 --> 00:48:52,383
get to know more people from that societal group if that's a secondary goal maybe but it's all about

683
00:48:52,383 --> 00:48:58,263
getting laid in the end probably all of these status things like more or less or networking

684
00:48:58,263 --> 00:49:02,903
you know you go to a networking event you well dress people think oh this guy's money or this

685
00:49:02,903 --> 00:49:09,523
guy is a successful person yeah you know that's the point of these status i guess you can call

686
00:49:09,523 --> 00:49:17,103
this status economy that's why i love ending up in those in situations where those games are played

687
00:49:17,103 --> 00:49:22,663
and completely not played at all like sailors parties for instance i don't give a shit about

688
00:49:22,663 --> 00:49:28,523
no signaling or or like i'm just hanging out and it's fun like yeah and a lot of other bitcoiners

689
00:49:28,523 --> 00:49:34,223
too. I'm not banging my own chest here. It's like you're hanging out there and, or for instance,

690
00:49:34,363 --> 00:49:39,143
the dinner with Bukele, sort of same thing. Sure. There's a bit of gravitas to it and whatever,

691
00:49:40,023 --> 00:49:44,923
but for the most part, Bitcoiners don't give a shit. We're unemployable. We don't chase these

692
00:49:44,923 --> 00:49:49,403
things anymore and it's beautiful. Yeah. We had to be the own apps to get a job.

693
00:49:49,943 --> 00:49:56,243
Yeah. So look, look what I found, by the way, stack friends who stack sats on one card and

694
00:49:56,243 --> 00:49:58,503
you will meet Bitcoiners and you will be happy.

695
00:49:58,623 --> 00:49:59,544
That's the first one.

696
00:49:59,683 --> 00:50:00,983
That's the first card we haven't made.

697
00:50:01,023 --> 00:50:04,044
On the backside, it has the equation the wrong way around.

698
00:50:05,183 --> 00:50:06,044
Oh yeah, it's true.

699
00:50:06,243 --> 00:50:08,003
21 million divided by everything.

700
00:50:08,603 --> 00:50:09,923
Yeah, that's true.

701
00:50:10,044 --> 00:50:10,743
It's a prototype.

702
00:50:11,103 --> 00:50:12,903
I wasn't well-versed back then.

703
00:50:14,723 --> 00:50:15,263
It's funny.

704
00:50:16,023 --> 00:50:18,763
If you want to find local Bitcoin communities,

705
00:50:18,763 --> 00:50:20,883
other Bitcoiners, Bitcoin merchants,

706
00:50:21,103 --> 00:50:22,643
and Bitcoin events in your area,

707
00:50:22,903 --> 00:50:24,283
there's no better way to do that

708
00:50:24,283 --> 00:50:25,983
than through the Orange Pill app.

709
00:50:26,243 --> 00:50:31,523
Wait a minute. It's not the Orange Pill app anymore. It's Club Orange. Club Orange is an

710
00:50:31,523 --> 00:50:38,343
omni app that includes a lot of features, including a list of events, a wallet where you can send and

711
00:50:38,343 --> 00:50:44,483
receive sats over the Lightning Network. You can even geosap areas so you can send sats to a whole

712
00:50:44,483 --> 00:50:49,263
bunch of people in one single area. You can also tap sap while you're chatting to someone, which is

713
00:50:49,263 --> 00:50:54,783
a new feature that I don't believe exists anywhere else. Overall, a fantastic app for connecting

714
00:50:54,783 --> 00:51:00,564
Bitcoiners all around the world. So go to cluborange.org and sign up today. You won't regret

715
00:51:00,564 --> 00:51:06,903
it. It's not just a gay dating app. It's everything else too. You can use it. Forget about that.

716
00:51:07,363 --> 00:51:13,703
Go and sign up. Cluborange.org. If you want to really secure your Bitcoin, you should check out

717
00:51:13,703 --> 00:51:19,443
the Bitcoin Advisor. They have never lost a single set and they take care of your stack together with

718
00:51:19,443 --> 00:51:24,283
you. They can't use your stack. That's impossible, but they can help you with inheritance planning.

719
00:51:24,283 --> 00:51:29,403
they can help you huddle the bitcoin long term so go to the bitcoinadvisor.com to find out more

720
00:51:29,403 --> 00:51:37,003
and brush your teeth so yeah i i want to also like uh this is an area we haven't gone into

721
00:51:37,003 --> 00:51:43,223
what's coming for for or for club orange i keep saying orange pillar i know trust me very much

722
00:51:43,223 --> 00:51:50,863
what's what's in the pipe for uh uh in the pipeline for for club orange going into the future

723
00:51:50,863 --> 00:51:55,863
I mean the biggest thing that we're building right now is the ticketing platform

724
00:51:55,863 --> 00:51:59,983
You know we have events we have people going to events

725
00:51:59,983 --> 00:52:04,723
Now we have a wallet so it's natural that we allow people to buy tickets

726
00:52:04,723 --> 00:52:07,223
From the app through the app

727
00:52:07,223 --> 00:52:11,363
Especially through the wallet I think what's really cool is because you have a wallet

728
00:52:11,363 --> 00:52:14,323
If you have enough balance then you can buy a ticket

729
00:52:14,323 --> 00:52:17,603
Obviously in Bitcoin with one click

730
00:52:17,603 --> 00:52:20,283
without invoice, without LNURL.

731
00:52:20,423 --> 00:52:21,723
You just, if you have enough balance,

732
00:52:21,823 --> 00:52:22,863
you just, you know, you just,

733
00:52:23,084 --> 00:52:24,323
we get the sales from you

734
00:52:24,323 --> 00:52:25,564
and we give it to the organizer.

735
00:52:25,803 --> 00:52:26,963
You know, we get a little commission.

736
00:52:27,223 --> 00:52:29,023
So the ticketing is, by the way,

737
00:52:29,123 --> 00:52:30,683
building a ticketing platform is a nightmare.

738
00:52:31,303 --> 00:52:32,463
It's so complicated.

739
00:52:33,223 --> 00:52:35,303
I thought that, you know,

740
00:52:35,544 --> 00:52:37,183
we build a social network,

741
00:52:37,383 --> 00:52:38,663
a messaging platform,

742
00:52:38,663 --> 00:52:40,823
a wallet, geolocation,

743
00:52:42,084 --> 00:52:43,603
push notification, all kinds.

744
00:52:43,803 --> 00:52:44,463
I was like, okay, you know,

745
00:52:44,544 --> 00:52:46,883
how hard can it be to build a ticketing platform?

746
00:52:46,883 --> 00:52:53,503
platform, it is the hardest thing that we haven't built, but it has to be done.

747
00:52:53,503 --> 00:52:59,883
So ticketing is going to be for 2026, our focus is like events, like give them events

748
00:52:59,883 --> 00:53:07,843
organizer, another reason to use Club Orange and also kind of like closing the loop for

749
00:53:07,843 --> 00:53:08,843
the members.

750
00:53:08,843 --> 00:53:11,064
It's like down, they can do pretty much everything to the app.

751
00:53:11,064 --> 00:53:14,603
They can find the event, they can buy a ticket, they can find a group shot for the event.

752
00:53:14,603 --> 00:53:18,003
They can geodes up people to the group show, to the event.

753
00:53:18,823 --> 00:53:22,483
So yeah, ticketing, I hope it's the final piece of the puzzle,

754
00:53:22,623 --> 00:53:25,843
but every time I say that, six months later, I have another idea.

755
00:53:26,223 --> 00:53:28,843
So, well, I'm sure there's something else to build.

756
00:53:29,303 --> 00:53:32,683
I guess merchants also, it's very interesting to us.

757
00:53:33,743 --> 00:53:38,883
Now Square has enabled, you know, in theory, millions of merchants.

758
00:53:38,883 --> 00:53:43,463
I told Jack, you shouldn't have merchants enable it.

759
00:53:43,463 --> 00:53:44,883
you should be enabled by default.

760
00:53:45,463 --> 00:53:47,023
And then the user chooses

761
00:53:47,023 --> 00:53:48,323
if they want to be in fear of Bitcoin.

762
00:53:49,143 --> 00:53:50,923
There must be some regulation,

763
00:53:51,143 --> 00:53:53,243
some reason they didn't do that.

764
00:53:53,303 --> 00:53:55,323
But anyway, Square now in the US,

765
00:53:56,383 --> 00:54:00,343
you can accept Bitcoin to a Square portal,

766
00:54:01,343 --> 00:54:02,443
which is very cool.

767
00:54:02,803 --> 00:54:05,903
And actually, I go to a coffee all the time now,

768
00:54:06,023 --> 00:54:06,783
close to my house.

769
00:54:06,883 --> 00:54:07,443
They take Bitcoin.

770
00:54:07,723 --> 00:54:08,463
I met the owner.

771
00:54:08,783 --> 00:54:10,163
The owner owns a Club Orange.

772
00:54:10,163 --> 00:54:18,983
and so merchants I think maybe not in the short term but in the long term might be the biggest

773
00:54:18,983 --> 00:54:25,343
thing that we do because obviously the you know the the bitcoin parallel economy

774
00:54:25,343 --> 00:54:32,843
it would kind of be like massive at some point especially if they remove capital gain taxes right

775
00:54:32,843 --> 00:54:38,683
then there is no reason not to use bitcoin but that's more down the line when it comes to like

776
00:54:38,683 --> 00:54:40,863
the roadmap. So for now it's the events

777
00:54:40,863 --> 00:54:42,863
ticketing. Then at some point

778
00:54:42,863 --> 00:54:44,703
it's going to be, I mean, by the way

779
00:54:44,703 --> 00:54:46,823
we already had the merchants on the app, right?

780
00:54:47,163 --> 00:54:48,803
So you can create an account, you

781
00:54:48,803 --> 00:54:50,623
can create group chats, you can build

782
00:54:50,623 --> 00:54:52,643
up people and tell them about your store, the

783
00:54:52,643 --> 00:54:54,763
promotion. But we're

784
00:54:54,763 --> 00:54:56,703
not focusing on

785
00:54:56,703 --> 00:54:58,743
merchants yet just because

786
00:54:58,743 --> 00:55:00,723
that segment

787
00:55:00,723 --> 00:55:02,943
is not very active.

788
00:55:03,623 --> 00:55:04,763
But at some point it will be.

789
00:55:05,383 --> 00:55:06,243
Square is definitely

790
00:55:06,243 --> 00:55:07,883
a stepping stone.

791
00:55:08,683 --> 00:55:13,683
Well, for a place like El Salvador, they're very active.

792
00:55:13,683 --> 00:55:15,683
Have you been yet, by the way?

793
00:55:15,683 --> 00:55:17,683
Not yet. I have to.

794
00:55:17,683 --> 00:55:22,683
You should come down in January for the Plan B Forum.

795
00:55:22,683 --> 00:55:24,683
Yes, I should be. I should.

796
00:55:24,683 --> 00:55:27,683
Yeah, and take some more days if you can.

797
00:55:27,683 --> 00:55:32,883
I know you're a family man, but if you have a couple of extra days,

798
00:55:32,911 --> 00:55:34,811
especially coming from Europe,

799
00:55:34,971 --> 00:55:35,991
it's like night and day.

800
00:55:36,291 --> 00:55:39,471
Like here, if I tell people I work in Bitcoin

801
00:55:39,471 --> 00:55:41,291
or do Bitcoin stuff,

802
00:55:41,411 --> 00:55:43,671
they answer with at least suspicion,

803
00:55:44,151 --> 00:55:46,231
like that I'm doing something dodgy.

804
00:55:46,831 --> 00:55:49,471
And the governments themselves,

805
00:55:49,471 --> 00:55:51,391
they do think I'm doing something dodgy.

806
00:55:51,491 --> 00:55:55,131
I mean, you sort of feel like a semi-criminal,

807
00:55:55,391 --> 00:55:57,131
even if you haven't done anything wrong.

808
00:55:57,311 --> 00:55:58,331
Like it's Europe, exactly.

809
00:55:59,171 --> 00:56:00,851
And the US is better,

810
00:56:00,851 --> 00:56:06,691
but still you have cap gains taxes you have all sorts of sorts of just like in any other

811
00:56:06,691 --> 00:56:12,131
so-called developed part of the world and then you come to el salvador and you're revered rather

812
00:56:12,131 --> 00:56:21,011
than you know just treated with it's it's night and day man like and there are no yeah i should

813
00:56:21,731 --> 00:56:29,331
no barriers to anything and club orange would there's such a great big market there maybe not

814
00:56:29,331 --> 00:56:36,531
you know, money wise, but user wise, absolutely. Yeah. Everyone would want to be on our coverage.

815
00:56:36,531 --> 00:56:42,211
I always say that, honestly, I always say if I was single, I would be living in El Salvador.

816
00:56:42,211 --> 00:56:46,691
If it was just me, no family, no kids, no nothing, I would just move to El Salvador.

817
00:56:46,691 --> 00:56:51,811
Same here. But you know, I'm not single and you're not single.

818
00:56:51,811 --> 00:56:57,251
No, but I might move anyway. Like at some point, like it's so good. It's just,

819
00:56:57,251 --> 00:57:03,351
yeah yeah it's tempting every time i'm there and now you're a friend with the president even better

820
00:57:03,351 --> 00:57:12,051
yeah uh you might get a job in the government i would love that uh yeah yeah yeah minister of

821
00:57:12,051 --> 00:57:19,211
i imagine that right imagine just uh the number of people who've been calling me hypocrites and

822
00:57:19,211 --> 00:57:26,611
i went to a fucking dinner all right yeah that's all i did it's the first step to get a job

823
00:57:26,611 --> 00:57:29,191
You never had a school lunch or anything?

824
00:57:29,431 --> 00:57:29,911
Like what?

825
00:57:30,111 --> 00:57:32,971
It's also taxpayer funded in some countries at least.

826
00:57:33,471 --> 00:57:34,431
Maybe not in the US.

827
00:57:34,931 --> 00:57:37,131
Was the dinner taxpayer funded, Knut?

828
00:57:37,291 --> 00:57:37,771
Come on.

829
00:57:38,031 --> 00:57:38,551
I don't know.

830
00:57:39,051 --> 00:57:39,491
I don't know.

831
00:57:39,491 --> 00:57:40,391
I didn't ask.

832
00:57:42,051 --> 00:57:42,291
Yeah.

833
00:57:42,651 --> 00:57:43,391
I mean, it must be.

834
00:57:43,671 --> 00:57:44,751
It's a fun dinner, I'm sure.

835
00:57:44,871 --> 00:57:46,351
I would have gone on.

836
00:57:46,391 --> 00:57:46,931
It was fun.

837
00:57:47,191 --> 00:57:47,551
Yeah, yeah.

838
00:57:47,771 --> 00:57:48,471
Yeah, yeah.

839
00:57:48,571 --> 00:57:49,951
I can imagine.

840
00:57:50,291 --> 00:57:50,511
Yeah.

841
00:57:50,551 --> 00:57:50,991
It was cool.

842
00:57:51,071 --> 00:57:55,091
No, I keep pinching myself that these things just keep happening to me.

843
00:57:55,091 --> 00:57:58,691
It's bizarre, but I'm sure I'm enjoying all of it.

844
00:57:59,191 --> 00:58:05,571
Yeah, Bitcoin has changed my life in unimaginable ways, honestly.

845
00:58:06,791 --> 00:58:07,051
Yeah.

846
00:58:10,171 --> 00:58:17,271
I now know people that could potentially call the president.

847
00:58:18,311 --> 00:58:19,571
Yeah, same here.

848
00:58:19,571 --> 00:58:21,431
Of the United States.

849
00:58:21,431 --> 00:58:24,991
which is why

850
00:58:24,991 --> 00:58:26,491
because I'm also an immigrant

851
00:58:26,491 --> 00:58:28,091
I came here, I didn't know anybody

852
00:58:28,091 --> 00:58:31,071
sometimes I wonder what I would be doing if I didn't discover Bitcoin

853
00:58:31,071 --> 00:58:32,311
I have no idea

854
00:58:32,311 --> 00:58:34,511
maybe I

855
00:58:34,511 --> 00:58:35,531
I guess I'll do something

856
00:58:35,531 --> 00:58:36,631
and it's not that interesting

857
00:58:36,631 --> 00:58:39,771
because you would probably be stuck in some hamster's wheel

858
00:58:39,771 --> 00:58:40,871
chasing more fiat

859
00:58:40,871 --> 00:58:41,931
of course

860
00:58:41,931 --> 00:58:45,151
that's where most people end up

861
00:58:45,151 --> 00:58:47,111
few people

862
00:58:47,111 --> 00:58:50,131
actually get to the level

863
00:58:50,131 --> 00:58:56,391
where they can truly start self-reflecting and get out because the most successful fiat

864
00:58:56,391 --> 00:58:59,671
people are not the ones that do that.

865
00:58:59,671 --> 00:59:17,885
To be successful in fiat it better to move fast and break things than to have patience So the inverse of clown world everything that true for fiat the inverse is true for Bitcoin Right Like your your first million sats is the easiest not the hardest

866
00:59:17,885 --> 00:59:22,005
Like in fiat, the first million dollars is the hardest and then it gets easier.

867
00:59:22,005 --> 00:59:24,225
Like that's what every billionaire says.

868
00:59:24,225 --> 00:59:25,225
Yes.

869
00:59:25,225 --> 00:59:27,105
And Bitcoin is the opposite.

870
00:59:27,105 --> 00:59:28,105
Pretty much.

871
00:59:28,105 --> 00:59:33,705
There is no staking and getting yield on your Bitcoin.

872
00:59:34,225 --> 00:59:36,785
And if you do, you're probably going to end up with no Bitcoin.

873
00:59:37,485 --> 00:59:39,125
No, fiat around and find out.

874
00:59:39,265 --> 00:59:40,005
That's what that is.

875
00:59:40,165 --> 00:59:41,665
Yes, yes, exactly.

876
00:59:42,225 --> 00:59:47,905
Somebody should write a book called The Clown World, The Inversion of...

877
00:59:47,905 --> 00:59:48,765
What is the name?

878
00:59:49,625 --> 00:59:50,765
The Inversion of Clown World.

879
00:59:51,005 --> 00:59:52,045
It's right there.

880
00:59:52,045 --> 00:59:53,085
What are the chances?

881
00:59:54,685 --> 00:59:56,645
Available on Amazon Doc.

882
00:59:56,845 --> 00:59:57,865
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

883
00:59:58,105 --> 01:00:02,425
And BitcoinInfinity.com if you want to use money that's not stealing from your kids.

884
01:00:03,425 --> 01:00:04,605
And Club Orange, maybe.

885
01:00:05,485 --> 01:00:05,745
Yeah.

886
01:00:07,805 --> 01:00:12,325
You can probably find it through Club Orange by some means, I guess.

887
01:00:12,325 --> 01:00:15,085
Send a DM to Knut on Club Orange.

888
01:00:15,245 --> 01:00:16,065
Yeah, yeah.

889
01:00:16,865 --> 01:00:20,365
And get a book and pay in sass through the wallet.

890
01:00:20,985 --> 01:00:21,565
Easy peasy.

891
01:00:21,565 --> 01:00:23,625
and

892
01:00:23,625 --> 01:00:25,545
yeah

893
01:00:25,545 --> 01:00:26,805
everyone has

894
01:00:26,805 --> 01:00:27,805
I was thinking

895
01:00:27,805 --> 01:00:28,545
about referral

896
01:00:28,545 --> 01:00:29,325
codes here

897
01:00:29,325 --> 01:00:30,185
and since

898
01:00:30,185 --> 01:00:31,085
we're

899
01:00:31,085 --> 01:00:32,805
talking about

900
01:00:32,805 --> 01:00:34,225
such things

901
01:00:34,225 --> 01:00:35,345
in on

902
01:00:35,345 --> 01:00:36,485
Club Orange

903
01:00:36,485 --> 01:00:38,005
each and

904
01:00:38,005 --> 01:00:38,505
every member

905
01:00:38,505 --> 01:00:39,225
has a referral

906
01:00:39,225 --> 01:00:39,845
code right

907
01:00:39,845 --> 01:00:40,265
yeah

908
01:00:40,265 --> 01:00:41,245
so you just

909
01:00:41,245 --> 01:00:41,745
have a QR

910
01:00:41,745 --> 01:00:42,325
code to give

911
01:00:42,325 --> 01:00:42,625
to other

912
01:00:42,625 --> 01:00:43,545
people and

913
01:00:43,545 --> 01:00:45,185
5,000

914
01:00:45,185 --> 01:00:45,725
Sats

915
01:00:45,725 --> 01:00:46,905
5,000

916
01:00:46,905 --> 01:00:47,345
Sats

917
01:00:47,345 --> 01:00:48,205
each sign

918
01:00:48,205 --> 01:00:48,565
up

919
01:00:48,565 --> 01:00:49,545
somebody has

920
01:00:49,545 --> 01:00:50,085
made

921
01:00:50,085 --> 01:00:51,445
more than a

922
01:00:51,445 --> 01:00:53,445
million sets to referrals.

923
01:00:53,445 --> 01:00:54,445
Cool.

924
01:00:54,445 --> 01:00:55,605
Yeah.

925
01:00:55,605 --> 01:00:56,605
That's awesome.

926
01:00:56,605 --> 01:00:57,605
Yeah.

927
01:00:57,605 --> 01:01:04,105
That's a cool thing because every user for us is income, it's revenue.

928
01:01:04,105 --> 01:01:07,925
So we can pay a very high referral bonus.

929
01:01:07,925 --> 01:01:08,665
And there is no limit.

930
01:01:08,665 --> 01:01:11,205
You can refer a thousand people, we'll pay a thousand.

931
01:01:11,205 --> 01:01:14,445
We will give you five million sets.

932
01:01:14,445 --> 01:01:15,565
That's fantastic.

933
01:01:15,565 --> 01:01:18,085
And a million sets, that's a thousand dollars.

934
01:01:18,085 --> 01:01:21,325
So that's quite a lot of money for referring people.

935
01:01:21,325 --> 01:01:21,925
Yeah, exactly.

936
01:01:22,405 --> 01:01:22,465
Yeah.

937
01:01:23,005 --> 01:01:26,265
Well, that's a good thing about having the same.

938
01:01:26,425 --> 01:01:28,245
So that's incentive alliance.

939
01:01:28,505 --> 01:01:29,865
You know, that's the thing.

940
01:01:30,125 --> 01:01:32,265
Because if you don't, yeah, there you go.

941
01:01:33,005 --> 01:01:34,085
Show us your QR code.

942
01:01:34,545 --> 01:01:35,225
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

943
01:01:35,225 --> 01:01:37,365
I sort of have to now that we're talking about it.

944
01:01:37,465 --> 01:01:38,905
So here you go, people.

945
01:01:39,265 --> 01:01:41,225
And get rid of the reflections.

946
01:01:41,865 --> 01:01:43,665
That's a QR code to find you.

947
01:01:43,665 --> 01:01:43,905
Post a video.

948
01:01:44,565 --> 01:01:45,965
Oh, God damn it.

949
01:01:45,965 --> 01:01:50,805
That's secure code to find you, which is good.

950
01:01:50,805 --> 01:01:51,965
Yes.

951
01:01:51,965 --> 01:01:55,065
If you go in your settings and then there's a.

952
01:01:55,065 --> 01:01:57,065
All right.

953
01:01:57,065 --> 01:02:01,005
Settings on the top right and then refer.

954
01:02:01,005 --> 01:02:05,985
Go to the near you tab, go to the main page, then click on your profile picture on the

955
01:02:05,985 --> 01:02:06,985
top right.

956
01:02:06,985 --> 01:02:08,725
Yes, that's what I did.

957
01:02:08,725 --> 01:02:11,345
And then I'm just being a boomer here.

958
01:02:11,345 --> 01:02:12,345
Refer and earn.

959
01:02:12,345 --> 01:02:14,265
Oh, the button was too big.

960
01:02:14,265 --> 01:02:17,165
So here it is with the beautiful new logo in the middle.

961
01:02:17,705 --> 01:02:19,625
And of course, it's too bright here now.

962
01:02:19,825 --> 01:02:20,525
Yeah, exactly.

963
01:02:21,625 --> 01:02:22,785
I know what to do.

964
01:02:23,745 --> 01:02:26,905
This is a tip here, by the way,

965
01:02:27,025 --> 01:02:30,785
to everyone trying to scan a lightning invoice

966
01:02:30,785 --> 01:02:32,085
at a conference or something.

967
01:02:32,745 --> 01:02:34,965
Turn down the brightness on your phone.

968
01:02:35,445 --> 01:02:37,425
And that's how these things work.

969
01:02:37,925 --> 01:02:51,1000
Actually here the QR code And now it brighter again But you had it there you can pause the video if you want to use my referral code And let see if that works Let see if we get some new clubbers on board

970
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:53,160
Clubbers.

971
01:02:54,1000 --> 01:02:57,800
She's better than orange killers, I guess.

972
01:02:58,720 --> 01:02:58,960
Yeah.

973
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,320
Pill now or suppository later, right?

974
01:03:02,380 --> 01:03:03,800
That's the question.

975
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:08,220
So that's the situation on the ground.

976
01:03:09,180 --> 01:03:11,600
Maybe we should call it club suppository.

977
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:12,800
Oh my God.

978
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,040
Next company, next Bitcoin app.

979
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:17,500
We'll do that.

980
01:03:17,1000 --> 01:03:20,580
Yeah, we're not at the suppository stage yet, though.

981
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:23,400
That's far off into the future.

982
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,340
If there even is a suppository state.

983
01:03:25,660 --> 01:03:29,820
I mean, you can always be early.

984
01:03:29,900 --> 01:03:31,340
You're always early to Bitcoin.

985
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:32,340
There is no late.

986
01:03:32,700 --> 01:03:33,640
It's always early.

987
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:35,060
You know what I say?

988
01:03:35,060 --> 01:03:35,780
What I say?

989
01:03:35,780 --> 01:03:37,760
Bitcoin is forever

990
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:39,400
so you can never be late

991
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:40,600
no exactly

992
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:42,900
that's 100% true

993
01:03:42,900 --> 01:03:44,260
exactly

994
01:03:44,260 --> 01:03:44,980
it's fantastic

995
01:03:44,980 --> 01:03:48,440
and that's why you should get a lifetime membership

996
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:50,240
because Bitcoin is forever

997
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:51,320
so there's no

998
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:52,880
there is no

999
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,300
there is no oh you know

1000
01:03:55,300 --> 01:03:57,100
maybe I don't watch Netflix anymore

1001
01:03:57,100 --> 01:03:58,920
no, Bitcoin is forever

1002
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:00,080
you can get a lifetime membership

1003
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:01,580
fantastic

1004
01:04:01,580 --> 01:04:05,020
Matteo are there any other features or anything

1005
01:04:05,020 --> 01:04:06,640
or anything else you want to talk about

1006
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:08,280
before we wrap this up?

1007
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:10,940
I think we covered a lot, man.

1008
01:04:11,380 --> 01:04:12,560
We covered a lot, yeah.

1009
01:04:13,100 --> 01:04:14,380
Yeah, we covered a lot.

1010
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:15,360
Honestly,

1011
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:17,800
I mean, there could be

1012
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:18,800
an infinite amount of things,

1013
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:19,380
but, you know,

1014
01:04:19,780 --> 01:04:20,300
Club Orange,

1015
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:21,420
new name, new logo.

1016
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:22,460
Yeah.

1017
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,020
Same mission of connecting

1018
01:04:25,020 --> 01:04:27,580
big corners in real life.

1019
01:04:28,460 --> 01:04:30,040
Just kind of the mission,

1020
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:31,720
big corners, events, merchants.

1021
01:04:32,500 --> 01:04:34,120
That's been the mission from day one,

1022
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:36,260
and it will be the mission in five years.

1023
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:37,480
Yeah.

1024
01:04:38,220 --> 01:04:39,200
Yeah, I think.

1025
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:40,940
And it's working.

1026
01:04:41,380 --> 01:04:43,140
It's growing every month.

1027
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,160
I've been impressed by the numbers

1028
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,100
and it keeps growing.

1029
01:04:47,300 --> 01:04:51,020
I hope people get used to the new name quickly.

1030
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:52,940
It's a much better name, so they should.

1031
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,080
So where can people find you

1032
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:56,560
and where can people find the app?

1033
01:04:57,340 --> 01:05:00,380
Well, you can find me on,

1034
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:01,520
oh yes, Club Orange,

1035
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:03,260
but I'm also on Nostor.

1036
01:05:03,260 --> 01:05:06,380
I'm also on ex-Matteo Pellegrini.

1037
01:05:08,300 --> 01:05:13,180
But I honestly, obviously, I reply to every single message on Club Orange,

1038
01:05:13,180 --> 01:05:21,020
not so much on the other platform. And cluborange.org is the website and Club Orange on the App Store or

1039
01:05:21,020 --> 01:05:26,380
Google Play Store, whatever you download your apps. Also, it's on this thing called Zap Store,

1040
01:05:27,260 --> 01:05:32,940
which is a North Store base, I think. Zap Store and Club Orange everywhere.

1041
01:05:32,940 --> 01:05:34,920
Easy to find. Can't misspell it.

1042
01:05:35,620 --> 01:05:38,460
Yes, and you can DM me on Club Orange,

1043
01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:42,640
and I will also reply to every single DM eventually.

1044
01:05:43,060 --> 01:05:47,780
I might not do it the same day, but usually within the same week at least.

1045
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:49,040
Low-time preference.

1046
01:05:49,420 --> 01:05:50,140
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1047
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:52,900
So that's a good way to reach out.

1048
01:05:53,060 --> 01:05:56,620
And then I know you're for real because this takes commitment.

1049
01:05:56,1000 --> 01:06:00,980
There are no Asian ladies asking you how your trade is going on Club Orange,

1050
01:06:00,980 --> 01:06:05,200
unless they actually are Asian ladies who want to know how your trade is going

1051
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:08,180
you want to know a funny story you want to know a funny story

1052
01:06:08,180 --> 01:06:14,380
no I went to I went no okay oh yes I mean yes yes I said no but I meant yes

1053
01:06:14,380 --> 01:06:37,554
okay good I went to a meetup in LA a few weeks ago and there was an Asian lady I told her about Club Orange No no no wait I told her about Club Orange She signed up and I kid you not the profile picture it would be like an Asian lady that sent you out of your trades going but it a real person

1054
01:06:37,554 --> 01:06:45,774
and like wait this is you it's like you look like a like a bot uh i didn't say that but it's like

1055
01:06:45,774 --> 01:06:53,594
it was like a it was like a like an inception you know like they become reality oh my god so

1056
01:06:53,594 --> 01:07:00,794
this asian lady might some of them are real just so just so you know yes and there might be a real

1057
01:07:00,794 --> 01:07:05,534
nigerian prince out there who actually has something for you but who knows i'm sure when

1058
01:07:05,534 --> 01:07:11,574
they'll meet one of those people too i'm sure anyway there's there's only one asian lady

1059
01:07:11,574 --> 01:07:17,094
on club orange and there's only one bot we didn't talk about the boat wait a minute only one asian

1060
01:07:17,094 --> 01:07:23,434
lady really oh that's girl that i that i met yeah but there must be more asian ladies on club orange

1061
01:07:23,434 --> 01:07:33,094
i'm sure yeah the bot the satoshi bot have you used it it's so good on club orange yeah yeah

1062
01:07:33,094 --> 01:07:34,434
We built the bot.

1063
01:07:35,094 --> 01:07:36,654
It's so cool.

1064
01:07:37,314 --> 01:07:40,234
I built it this summer while I was in Italy.

1065
01:07:40,914 --> 01:07:42,374
It was so hot, I couldn't go out.

1066
01:07:42,454 --> 01:07:43,694
I'm just going to beat the bot.

1067
01:07:44,654 --> 01:07:50,074
And it's trained on Satoshi Nakamoto writing public for only the public.

1068
01:07:50,894 --> 01:07:53,154
And it kind of talks like Satoshi.

1069
01:07:53,314 --> 01:07:55,554
It's like a little bit dismissive sometimes.

1070
01:07:56,054 --> 01:08:01,894
But it's the best way to learn about Bitcoin or lighting or blockchain,

1071
01:08:01,894 --> 01:08:07,194
time whatever you want to learn about bitcoin is so if you go on club orange and you and you go

1072
01:08:07,194 --> 01:08:13,514
search and you type satoshi nakamoto bot it looks like a profile it looks like a regular profile and

1073
01:08:13,514 --> 01:08:19,474
then you can just talk you know people have been told me like they've learned like like a lot

1074
01:08:19,474 --> 01:08:30,254
it's amazing did you find it satoshi nakamoto bot just type satoshi nakamoto bot bot yes

1075
01:08:30,254 --> 01:08:35,774
I typed it as one word and that didn't, but yeah, Satoshi Nakamoto connect.

1076
01:08:36,654 --> 01:08:39,614
And then there's a statue of, uh, yeah, yeah.

1077
01:08:39,614 --> 01:08:44,654
The statue. Yeah. Yeah. I saw the statue. Now I'm connected to Satoshi Nakamoto bot here.

1078
01:08:45,374 --> 01:08:49,294
It's so much fun, man. It's the only bot that we have on the app. That's it.

1079
01:08:50,334 --> 01:08:52,254
It's the only one. Yeah. Yeah.

1080
01:08:55,054 --> 01:08:57,774
Hello. Ask me about Bitcoin. There you go.

1081
01:09:00,254 --> 01:09:07,574
If I don't understand, I don't have the time to tell you.

1082
01:09:07,934 --> 01:09:09,914
Yeah, well, yeah, I'll write something.

1083
01:09:11,174 --> 01:09:11,934
It's fun, man.

1084
01:09:12,014 --> 01:09:12,834
It's honestly fun.

1085
01:09:13,654 --> 01:09:14,354
I can imagine.

1086
01:09:15,214 --> 01:09:15,554
Yes.

1087
01:09:15,694 --> 01:09:16,434
All right, Matteo.

1088
01:09:16,954 --> 01:09:17,754
Always a pleasure.

1089
01:09:18,214 --> 01:09:19,014
Thank you very much.

1090
01:09:19,174 --> 01:09:21,554
I know you have to get going here soon.

1091
01:09:21,894 --> 01:09:24,794
So, yes, thank you for coming on.

1092
01:09:24,914 --> 01:09:27,554
And everyone should get on Club Orange, of course.

1093
01:09:28,114 --> 01:09:28,714
Thank you.

1094
01:09:28,954 --> 01:09:30,194
Knut, it was a pleasure.

1095
01:09:30,254 --> 01:09:34,234
I hope to see you in El Salvador with your new friend, Bukele.

1096
01:09:35,114 --> 01:09:37,234
Yeah, you should definitely come.

1097
01:09:37,474 --> 01:09:40,354
And that's a good time of year to visit for sure.

1098
01:09:40,354 --> 01:09:41,994
And that's a great conference too.

1099
01:09:42,914 --> 01:09:43,154
Yeah.

1100
01:09:43,494 --> 01:09:45,014
See you there, hopefully.

1101
01:09:45,694 --> 01:09:45,894
Okay.

1102
01:09:46,214 --> 01:09:46,514
Thank you.

1103
01:09:46,534 --> 01:09:47,914
Otherwise, somewhere else in the world.

1104
01:09:48,354 --> 01:09:48,594
Yes.

1105
01:09:48,974 --> 01:09:49,394
Take care.

1106
01:09:49,554 --> 01:09:50,134
Always a pleasure.

1107
01:09:50,714 --> 01:09:51,014
Ciao, ciao.

1108
01:09:51,794 --> 01:09:53,874
This has been the Bitcoin Infinity Show.

1109
01:09:54,494 --> 01:09:55,274
Brush your damn teeth.