Bitcoin is for Everyone with Natalie Brunell | Bitcoin Infinity Show #180

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Now that I've written the book, my focus is actually going to be over the next year to put out a lot of Bitcoin 101 content, like the fundamentals, because it's great to talk about Bitcoin with the folks that are already orange pilled, but there are so many people we still need to reach.

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No one ever questions validity of money. They think money is real because they can use it to buy stuff and they don't think any further than that.

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I think it's a greater problem today that we can't take our hard-earned time and store

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that energy in something that doesn't get diluted and lose purchasing power.

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I don't know why as a society, we're so scared now of competition, right?

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I mean, it's like we have to level the playing field.

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Everyone has to have a trophy.

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Everyone has to start on third base.

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Why?

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It's that meme, right?

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Like hard times create strong men.

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Strong men create easy times.

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Easy times create weak men.

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Think of how far we can go with perfect money that really rewards value.

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Everything's getting more expensive and lower in quality.

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And I didn't understand why until Bitcoin.

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Bitcoin is for everyone and Bitcoin is hope.

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Natalie, a warm welcome back to the Bitcoin Infinity Show.

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Great to have you back.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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It's great to see you.

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Likewise.

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What have you been up to lately?

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Oh, gosh.

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I mean, I wrote a book and it's finally coming out.

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So that's probably the most exciting update, I would say, and still trying to grow the show

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and educate as many people as possible.

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Now that I've written the book, my focus is actually going to be over the next year to

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put out a lot of Bitcoin 101 content, like the fundamentals, because it's great to talk

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about Bitcoin with the folks that are already orange-pilled, but there are so many people

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we still need to reach.

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And sometimes it's a book that works.

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Sometimes it's a video.

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Sometimes it's a webinar.

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so I just feel like I want to get more involved in the 101 conversations again since I remember

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what it's like to be very new and skeptical and feel like I'm too late or you know there's

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something I don't understand about it and I'm trying to reach all the newbies.

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Oh that sounds great I mean Luke and I we see ourselves as conviction deepeners more than

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orange pillars so it's great that there are actual orange pillars out there too I mean and you've

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done a great job I think you've on the whole you've you've probably orange filled more people

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than most because you have such a large reach and everything. And your book is called Bitcoin

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for Everyone, isn't it? It's called Bitcoin is for Everyone. Yes. But there are so many people

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that came before me that are such great educators. Like I would actually say that Max and Stacey

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have educated more people than anyone the earliest, right? For the longest time. And I loved their

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show. The fact that they were actually, you know, on TV talking about Bitcoin when it was like

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$10 or something is so wild.

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So I'm standing on the shoulders of giants.

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Yeah, aren't we all?

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And sometimes we're sitting shoulder to shoulder with giants.

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And that's absolutely amazing that you can do this in this space.

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I was on a spaces with Max and Stacey yesterday.

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Because I'm going to El Salvador next week for the historical thing.

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I so wish I could be there.

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I can't make it because I'm launching my books.

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I have to go to New York and I'll be there for basically that week.

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but I think it's going to be a great event.

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I'm so excited.

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I can't wait to see photos from it.

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No, it looks amazing.

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And yeah, Stacey mentioned,

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she was actually the first person ever

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to mention Bitcoin in any type of mainstream media.

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Yeah, I believe it.

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Which is just fantastic.

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And this is 2011 or something like that.

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Bitcoin is like at 60 cents or whatever.

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Well, you know,

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and I give another shout out to Max and Stacey

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because when I went to my first conference

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with my best friend, Paula,

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It was 2021.

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I had just recorded a couple of episodes of the podcast, and I was still working full-time

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as a reporter.

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And no one knew who I was.

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And we didn't know anyone.

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We were really nervous going into the conference, but super excited to listen to the panels.

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And Max and Stacey were so welcoming.

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And they invited us to their event.

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And at that event, we met so many people who were orange-pilled by them through their shows.

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And they came in from all over the world.

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and they were so grateful for Max and Stacey.

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And it was so sweet.

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And they've always just been so supportive and so great.

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And they're doing amazing things for El Salvador.

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So yeah, Max and Stacey are the best.

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We're lucky to have them.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And I'm looking forward a lot to seeing them again

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and to return to El Salvador.

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I just love it there.

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There's an energy in that country

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that you don't find elsewhere,

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like this optimism everywhere. And I absolutely love that. So yeah, I've been saying lately on a

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lot of pods and stuff that Bitcoin is not really for everyone, but it's for anyone.

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So what would you say to that? How would you debunk me?

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Well, you're not the first person from the Bitcoin community who has said that. And I kind of chuckle

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because I will tell you that if you're looking at a store shelf of books, it's probably more

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appealing for the average person who's not a Bitcoiner to read Bitcoin is for everyone rather

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than Bitcoin is for anyone. And it's kind of like, well, who are we leaving out there?

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I don't know. I mean, I do see it as for everyone and it's their choice, obviously,

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whether we can lead them to water. We hope they will drink. It's their decision. But there's no

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one that's excluded from the Bitcoin network and the Bitcoin ecosystem. If they want to get involved,

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if they want to invest, if they want to mine, if they want to participate, it's open to everyone,

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right? So that's why it's for everyone. And I really just feel like the message is so important

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today because a lot of people feel like they're too late or people think it's for one political

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party or another, or they're too old, it's too technical. And my message is just to not feel that

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way. The book is really a message of hope and empowerment that it's really early and all of us

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can embrace this new technology. And it's critical that we do, especially now with what's happening

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in the world. And it allows us to save for the future. And I think that that allows us to feel

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a sense of freedom and the ability to think more, right, about what we can do for one another and

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what we can do for our descendants and for our future. So it makes me really excited. Like the

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book has a very very positive message to it oh fantastic i i couldn't agree more and like i i

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i've written five books at this point so so i have my my own version of what the process of writing

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a book is like but i have a sneaky suspicion that our processes are kind of different so so first of

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all what what what compelled you to write a book like what what what what's what's your driving

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force for getting this text out there? Well, I'd love to hear your experience too. I didn't set out

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to write a book. I was reached out to first by a book agent who is lovely. Her name's Maura,

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and she was already orange-pilled. She was a Bitcoiner, and she thought that there needs to

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be a very, very mainstream-friendly 101 book that can be published for the masses.

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And my first reaction, which maybe some of the listeners are probably thinking,

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well, that exists already, right? Because I've read all the Bitcoin books. Some of them I've

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read multiple times. And so I was kind of like, they're already out there. And then I was approached

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by a publisher. And the publisher actually published one of my favorite non-Bitcoin books

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within the kind of business or finance ecosystem. And it's called Psychology of Money by Morgan

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Housel. So he found Morgan. And I love that book. That book was actually first given to me by

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James Lavish to read. And I don't know if you've, have you read it?

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No, I haven't read it, but I heard about it. It's one of those that are,

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that you see in airports, I believe.

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Yeah, it's really good. It's sold millions of copies around the world. I'm like shilling this

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book instead, but it's really good. And it talks about the psychology behind investing and our

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relationship with money. And it has really interesting lessons and anecdotes from some

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people who are just average Joes, like for example, a janitor who just worked his whole entire

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life, this average nine to five job, but he was so good at putting away and investing that he passed

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away a millionaire and gave away his fortune. And it showed the power of compounding and just

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really interesting stories. And so when he approached me and he thought that there should be

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a Bitcoin book, the two of them with their support and encouragement, I thought, okay,

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well, why not? Why not give it a try? There are situations where I feel like I've given Bitcoin

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books to my girlfriends or family members and they don't get through the whole thing or they

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put it down or something loses them. And so I thought, I want to write a book that they will

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finish and sit down and have the same experience that I did when I read my first Bitcoin book,

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which was like, oh my gosh, how did I not know this? How did I not learn this in school?

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Oh my gosh, this might be the future. I need to learn everything I can about it.

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And so maybe my book can be like an entry point for all the other great books out there in this

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space and the great content that's out there. Because for me, it all started with that. It

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started with a book and I sat back and I was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, now I understand the

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problems that exist all around me that I've been reporting on for like a decade. Now I understand

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why we're so divided. Now I understand why the prices keep going up. Now I understand why I can't

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afford anything. And now there's a solution that we can maybe get behind. And so that's the reason

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And I wanted to just share my voice and throw my hat in the ring and see if my book will help anyone.

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I love that attitude because I think we need all of these different angles, right?

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And there's different approaches to explaining this thing.

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Because my books don't appeal to everyone.

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The Bitcoin standard doesn't appeal to everyone.

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So I love the fact that we had the fortune of helping Larry a bit with his book during his process.

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and Larry is a great success

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the book, he's doing great

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with it and he's doing great in general

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and going to DC to tell

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politicians that they're all thieves and

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that they should app off

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I love that Larry is doing his thing

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his way and I think he reaches a completely

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different audience than I do

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and I think your audience is completely

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different to

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Larry's or Seyfedine's or mine

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or anyone else's

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so I just love that

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we're getting more and more different angles,

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even though we're saying the same things,

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but with different words, I guess.

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Yeah, but it's fun to see that

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once someone gets started

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and once someone reads one book,

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they tend to read them all, right?

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And like people have their collections

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and it's all the books,

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your book, Safe's book, Lynn's book,

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Jeff Booth's book, Larry's.

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It's just fun.

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And you're right.

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I mean, each book offers something so special and unique

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and some are more academic,

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some are more technical,

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some are more philosophical so yeah it's like it's great that we have so many of them out there

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yeah i know we both uh i talked to jeff in in uh yeah several times during the year i i had the

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pleasure of meeting him in in colombia and then later on in helsinki and he told me that he he

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talked to you about this book a couple of times and that you you got his input on it and like yes

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maybe a penny or two more dropped as they always do when you talk to jeff because he's so insightful

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right so oh yes he he had a great big impact on my life too and graciously wrote the foreword for

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everything divided by 21 million and helped me helped me put that together in a coherent way so

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i'd love to hear your story about that and what's what his role in this was yeah so i'm i mean i

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just i've always learned so much from every conversation and every interview that i've had

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with Jeff and he has such like a calm and positive way that he frames this world transition that we're

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going through. And so just being the longtime friend and mentor that he's been for me and how

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brilliant he is at explaining inflation and deflation. I just really wanted him to read

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an early version of the manuscript and just offer me feedback. And so that's what he did.

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Lynn Alden also did that as well. She was extremely helpful because one thing too is I just,

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I wanted to be very accurate. And sometimes when you simplify things, you can lose the nuance or

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the details that might be important, right? And it's very hard to explain things like money

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printing and how the banking system works. People think Bitcoin's complex, right? When you break

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down how the dollar actually works and all the institutions and the money printing and the swaps

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and this and that between bank reserves, it gets very, very complicated. And when you try to

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simplify it. I wanted it to both be very approachable, but also very factual. And so it

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was really important to get feedback and make sure that I am telling it in a way that is simple and

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easy to understand for the average person who maybe has never been exposed to financial education

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or engineering or anything like that, but also doesn't lose the accuracy and the facts.

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And Michael Saylor also read an early manuscript. So I'm just really grateful they all endorsed it

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and their quotes are on the back of the book.

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So very humbled and grateful.

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But the process was just,

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it was a really rewarding process for me

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because I've been a writer for so many years,

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but specifically I write scripts.

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And I mean, you might know this as a podcast host.

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Let's say we did our interview and then you transcribed it.

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It's like choppiness and filler words.

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And the way that you talk,

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the way you talk on TV or radio or a podcast

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is very different than the way you write a book.

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So I really needed some guidance and some help turning my script writing background into something that is eloquent and articulate on a page So that was challenging but in a very very rewarding way

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And yeah, I mean, it's hard because it was so hard to squeeze in everything I wanted to in like 200 pages.

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Because Bitcoin is, you can write about it for a thousand pages, right?

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But I wanted it to be as digestible as possible too.

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Yeah, I mean, the way I see it, writing makes you a better speaker and speaking makes you a better writer.

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Like they fuel one another.

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Writing is a very good way to find a coherent thread.

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Like thoughts without writing them down are sort of like they're all over the place.

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And you sort of can connect the dots in your brain, but other people probably can't because you have no way of communicating how they all fit together.

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When you start writing it down, you sort of get this narrative structure or whatever it is, like coherency.

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Is that a word?

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You get a coherent version of what you think about things.

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And it's very good for expressing yourself in other ways, too.

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100%.

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I came from writing songs.

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I think that's the first thing I wrote, and song lyrics.

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And then that turned into tweets.

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So when I quit the last band I took seriously, I sort of needed other ways to have my creative constipation solved.

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So Twitter played a huge role because the thing I loved about that in the beginning was that the fact that you had to condense it to 140 characters,

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which made me like, it's like boiling, it's like a beef broth.

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Like you have to boil it down to its essentials and you cut out all the fluff, right?

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so you so that helped me a lot with my writing i think like initially and then but but i'm curious

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about your process in general like since you were approached by other people to write a book

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so so you get this task and then you do it but how do you do it like how do you find the time

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to write and how do you find a way to focus on this thing and not get distracted like what's

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what's your process well that's why it took me a very long time i mean this book has been years

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in the making because you are, you're busy with your full-time job. And I think what helped is

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because my job is Bitcoin, I'm constantly reading about it, writing other people's work or reading

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other people's works, talking about it. So it was always front of mind. So it really honestly

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started with an outline. I had to kind of decide how I was going to even structure the book and the

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story. And for me, that was a really exciting process because I felt and I have always felt

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that until you understand the problem, you're not going to appreciate the solution. And so I really

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wanted to have a clear story arc. That's something that I really embraced in my TV journalism life.

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And as an adjunct professor, I always believed a story arc has to be there. A strong kind of

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you know, something that pulls you in and it takes you down a journey and there's some sort

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of crisis or conflict and hopefully a resolution and like it takes you full circle. So my book

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starts with really kind of taking the reader by the hand and saying, okay, we know that something

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is wrong. We can both acknowledge something's wrong. Let's talk about the symptoms of the

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problem and let's get on the same page, no pun intended. And then I break down, how did we get

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here? What is the problem? So obviously, there's something broken in the financial system.

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Well, what is money? How does the financial system actually work? And so I go through that.

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I explain it in a very, very, very simple way. And then by the time I get to Bitcoin,

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which is not until chapter 10, you're very primed to appreciate the properties of good money and

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what can allow us to save for the future and can allow us to, I think, be kind of better humans to

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one another, if I'm being honest. I mean, part of the book is also about your time preference and

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being able to dream bigger and being able to hope and what that brings out in one another to be more

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cooperative and be more productive. And it talks about, obviously, the human rights angle of Bitcoin,

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which I think is so appealing for so many people and was the thing that got them interested in

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Bitcoin in the first place. And then it ends on a very positive note of hope. So that's the journey

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that I really wanted to go on with the reader. And it was fun just kind of testing my own

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knowledge of how do I explain things like money printing? How do I explain fractional reserve

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banking and the history of money and how we went from the gold standard to the dollar and the

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dollars of reserve currency and how that's helped us in some ways, but also hurt us. So I take you

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through all of it fantastic and uh i love to hear this because it's so similar to to my process and i

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i i in my mind for some reason i thought our processes would be very different but

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for instance in the inverse of clown world the uh after after having written sort of the bulk of

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the thing at some point i realized hang on this is like joseph campbell's hero's journey structured

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sort of but the reader is the hero so like i can structure the book in this way and like make it

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an actual hero's journey and just follow the steps and that sort of fill in the filled in the blanks

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for what what other chapters were needed yeah so so so then it became easy to write the the rest of

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the book because i knew what pieces were missing exactly so and and also this you say that you're

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like i'm curious how i would explain this or how i would explain that a lot a lot of the stuff

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especially in my older books, I just ask myself a question on top of the page and then just try to

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explain it as well as I could. To me, that's a very good writing process. And yeah, I usually

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write in the mornings before the rest of the family is up because I know that I'm not going

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to be interrupted. Not only do I not get interrupted, I know that I'm not going to get

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interrupted. And that's important to me to stay focused. How do you stay focused? Like,

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turn off all notifications and like, are you in a dark room? Like what do you do?

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Yeah. I mean, that's one of the toughest things, especially with all the stimulation we have with

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our devices and social media, because it's, it really is important to focus whether you're

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reading or writing, you just have to have some quiet space. For me, I'm a really big note taker.

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So I have, I wouldn't be able to even count how many binders I have. I take notes on a lot of

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things. I've taken notes. People make fun of me for this, but even the Bitcoin books that I've

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read. I mean, if you took out my notes for the Bitcoin standard, it's probably 30 pages worth

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of notes. So I would take my notes, my binders out. I would go through notes. I would look at

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things that I've learned and observed. I save a lot of things. I'll write notes in my phone,

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or I'll screenshot things that I thought were really interesting. And I save everything. And

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then I go through it later. And I think it helps me just kind of distill it into sort of how I best

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understand it or would want it told to me or explained to me. So that's been really helpful.

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And I mean, to your point, it's like, I mean, for me, I feel like I did a lot of work on weekends,

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like a lot of work on just weekends or late night, because during the day,

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things are super crazy with my regular work. It's hard too when you're traveling. I think that

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when you're working while traveling, it's just, it's so hard to not be distracted because something's

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always going on and hotels are not that great to work in. And if you're not in the hotel room,

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then you're in a loud lobby or coffee. Like there's always distractions, right? So I'm not

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my best worker when I'm traveling. No, same here. I would say I can't really work while traveling.

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Like I never understood how you can work in airports, like tasks that are like, for lack

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of a better word slightly retarded okay i can do them in airports but i couldn't be creative in an

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airport it just doesn't work like so i i usually take long walks to get the ideas for for for books

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and stuff do you do that at all i do some of my best thinking on walks and drives totally like i

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actually i love long drives because i just your mind goes to places and i don't know if you've

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experienced this but all of a sudden you get somewhere and you're like i don't even remember

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driving here i was so no zoned out thinking about something no i i love that and then i'm also

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slightly scared of it because i don't know who was driving the car

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it's all about reclaiming the driver's seat of your car and then you don't even know who's driving

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so that's the irony of it so so let let's get into the meat of the book a bit more like did you read

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you said you read almost all the bitcoin books over and over again and took notes and blah blah

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did you read Austrian economics books as well yes like yeah yeah which ones oh gosh I mean I

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went down a whole rabbit hole probably probably a year after I read most of the Bitcoin books where

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I mean obviously it's like people like Seyfedine introduced me to Austrian economists that I had

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never heard of and I'm so sad that I didn't hear about them in school because I find their work

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really fascinating. So Rothbard and Hayek and Mises, you just go down the rabbit hole and start

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reading those books. I've really liked the works of Thomas Sowell as well. I mean, he's not an

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Austrian economist, but the way he explains economics, I've personally really found value in.

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I read books like Economics in One Lesson, Anatomy of the State. Some of the books were tough. Some

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of the books were not easy to read. But because I think I had the framework from the Bitcoin books,

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it was easier for me to follow them and to really understand why there's such an issue with central

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planning. And I mean, if you would have asked me like 10 years ago, oh, you know, what do you think

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about Keynesian economics? I'd be like, I have no idea what you're talking about. Or Austrian

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economics. I'd be like, is that economics that they teach in Austria? I have no opinion, right?

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But it's so incredible that when you do read those works, it helps you frame the way that we've

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kind of oriented our lives within these economies around the world and how money has always been

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manipulated in some way. And someone has always had the ability to inflate the money supply.

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And that has always had second, third, fourth order effects that have impacted humans and

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especially the working class. And we just kind of like go from one fiat currency to the next,

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and it rolls over in hundred year cycles. And what if we could have something better?

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Because obviously, if I learned all of this, but there was no Bitcoin, I would probably be a gold bug. And I would probably say gold is our best solution. But it has this inherent flaw that Lynn, I think, does such a brilliant job in Broken Money of framing it as a technology issue and how technology advances. At some point, you can't scale gold. You have to paper over it and abstract it because you can't send it across the world and have it settle.

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You can't easily verify it and transport it. And that settlement part is so difficult.

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So you have to paper over it, essentially. And that leads to all of the issues that we've had,

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especially when you lose the gold tether entirely, which we did, right?

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So it's like Bitcoin solved for that. It solved it. It made money perfect for the first time.

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and it allows us to have capitalism for the first time. And I think that that's also so important.

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And that's what changed my point of view really on capitalism, especially because,

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and I've shared this, you've probably heard me say it on other shows. When I was a reporter and I had

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just started my career and it was after the great financial crisis when my family lost everything,

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I was not for capitalism. I associated it with the problems that exist. And I thought that

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we have to have a way for the government to check greed, to check our worst impulses of greed.

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And I thought that capitalism was the root of a lot of problems. And I hear that now so much.

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And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, I don't know if you know what capitalism is, right? And

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that's one of the things that I think the Austrian economists really taught me was to

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understand what capitalism is and appreciate the fact that we've actually never lived in a world

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with capitalism, not real capitalism. We've gotten close maybe sometimes, but it would be a great

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world if we had a capitalistic form of money like Bitcoin and we allowed true value to rise to the

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surface and for value to accrue where it was originated and not because someone's close to

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the money printer apparatus. No, exactly. I mean, you always hear this phrase,

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that wasn't real communism or real communism has never been tried. Well, it has. That's the thing

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that has been tried the thing that hasn't been tried is real capitalism totally yeah because

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we've always had central banks or the equivalent of them even when we didn't have central banks

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there the bankers the private bankers were also giving out more receipts for gold than they had

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gold in their vaults so we've we've had that problem for thousands of years there's a great

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book by my norwegian friend uh rune ostgård called fraud coin where he describes like how

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this coin clipping and stuff was going on like a thousand year, thousand BC,

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like up in the Nordics.

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And it's always been there.

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So it's just this.

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And I think that is, as you said before, like it's very hard to, ironically

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enough I was just on another pod saying the exact same thing Like it hard to understand the solution without first comprehending the problem Right And I think this is absolutely the biggest hurdle because no one ever questions validity of money

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They think money is real because they can use it to buy stuff.

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And they don't think any further than that.

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They think, no, what are you talking about?

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The money is fake.

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It obviously isn't fake because I can buy things with it.

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And the thought never goes anywhere from that point.

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And the whole medium of exchange, yeah, this is a pet peeve rabbit hole here, but I don't like the term store of value since value is subjective and dynamic, as we know.

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So I think the whole store of value medium of exchange dichotomy is false.

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and is created by this, that gold was a good store of value and fiat was a good medium of

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exchange.

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It's sort of the dichotomy isn't really there when you have perfect money because it's medium

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exchange over time and space.

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Either you trade with your future self or other human beings.

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So one is over time and the other is over space.

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And I think thinking of the two as separate is very dangerous.

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And that's why we get a lot of these fiat narratives around, we need to use Bitcoin as this or that.

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Well, both use cases are equally valid.

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And who's to say how many transactions are natural?

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I think in a Bitcoin-denominated world, we will have much more subscription services and one-time payments.

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And it's very anti-micropayments, really, if you think about it.

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Micro payments are a very fiat-y thing.

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Paying, putting a coin to, paying a couple of cents to get into the bathroom in a central

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station somewhere.

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To me, that's a very fiat-y thing.

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On a Bitcoin standard, I think we'll have fewer payments in general.

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What are your thoughts around that?

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Well, I think we've never had a form of money that perfectly serves both of those use cases,

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right?

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I mean, because gold did store value well, but you can't transport it over space very

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easily because of the issues that we raised, right? Because of its physicality and it's very

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difficult to transport and settle. Paper money allows you to do that, but it doesn't store,

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I'll say, purchasing power very well, right? So the fact that you have both, I think,

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is so incredible. I explain in the book, I go into both, right? I talk about Bitcoin as a network and

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as a payments layer and as the internet of money. And I try to explain that simply.

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but I start with the store of value aspect because I think that is the more pressing problem.

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I think it's a greater problem today that we can't take our hard-earned time and store that

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energy in something that doesn't get diluted and lose purchasing power. That to me is the critical

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thing we need to address right away as opposed to a lot of people regardless of what country they're

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in and what they're actually spending. The payments problem is not as pressing to me as

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being able to store your money in something that restores its purchasing power. However,

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again, with Bitcoin, you get both. You get both of the best worlds. My only approach to this,

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though, is that the payments aspect is the one that is more threatening to the institutions,

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to the banks, to the governments, right? They want to be able to print money and they want to

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be able to tax and they want to be able to maintain as much control as possible.

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And I feel like as Bitcoiners, we will accomplish more of the world that we want to see sooner if we usher it in as a Trojan horse and usher it in slowly and politely and kindly, as opposed to getting in the face of governments and banks and saying, screw you, you're all going down.

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We're taking over.

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We don't need you, right?

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You attract more flies with honey.

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And I've really just taken that approach because, yes, Bitcoin is the perfect payments network. But we live in a world where there are some established monopolies and we want them to become Bitcoiners. I think everyone will become Bitcoiners eventually.

417
00:32:04,012 --> 00:32:09,131
And I think it's easier for us to share our message with the world when we do it in a way

418
00:32:09,131 --> 00:32:16,032
that is understanding that things have evolved in a way that's behind walled gardens.

419
00:32:16,332 --> 00:32:19,711
And to break them down, maybe we don't need nuclear weapons.

420
00:32:19,931 --> 00:32:24,151
Maybe we can knock on the door and ask to kind of work together.

421
00:32:24,471 --> 00:32:26,332
And maybe that's like rose-colored glasses.

422
00:32:26,591 --> 00:32:32,371
But I don't think that we get as far when we say very, very dramatic, hostile things

423
00:32:32,371 --> 00:32:33,951
to the institutions that exist.

424
00:32:34,012 --> 00:32:38,731
instead of just being like, they're going to need us. And we're here and we're ready to educate them.

425
00:32:38,731 --> 00:32:42,351
And we're going to start using this and we're going to fight for our ability to use it and

426
00:32:42,351 --> 00:32:46,711
fight for our freedoms and fight for our property rights. But we're also not going to say like,

427
00:32:47,052 --> 00:32:52,911
burn it all down. Because I do think that there are good, good people that work in these

428
00:32:52,911 --> 00:32:57,911
institutions that just don't understand yet, or they're not incentivized to understand it yet.

429
00:32:58,231 --> 00:33:02,731
But eventually they will. Eventually they will. We can, we can build a better world and the

430
00:33:02,731 --> 00:33:07,351
incentive system is there to transition us to Bitcoin. I just don't think we'll get there as

431
00:33:07,351 --> 00:33:14,231
quickly and as in a world that we want to live in and a transition that we would want to go through

432
00:33:14,231 --> 00:33:20,731
if we're just going to like go to war with everybody. No, I absolutely agree. A diplomatic

433
00:33:20,731 --> 00:33:25,891
route is probably a better one, even though I bash politicians all the time and stuff and

434
00:33:25,891 --> 00:33:33,151
talk shit about banks but it's mostly for fun i mean i'd say individuals is the key word there

435
00:33:33,151 --> 00:33:38,312
because all these institutions and all the states and all the institutions all the corporations

436
00:33:38,312 --> 00:33:45,131
they're made up of people so every single person in these institutions is a potential bitcoiner

437
00:33:45,131 --> 00:33:51,772
they're basically pre-coiners all of them and we can orange pill all of them and only an individual

438
00:33:51,772 --> 00:33:53,411
can actually own a Bitcoin.

439
00:33:53,611 --> 00:33:54,951
Only an individual can actually

440
00:33:54,951 --> 00:33:56,272
self-custody a Bitcoin.

441
00:33:57,072 --> 00:33:58,992
And they're not there yet,

442
00:33:59,072 --> 00:34:00,492
but they may be at some point.

443
00:34:00,572 --> 00:34:01,332
And if not them,

444
00:34:01,391 --> 00:34:02,292
then they're descendants.

445
00:34:02,931 --> 00:34:04,492
Like we're playing the long game here.

446
00:34:04,592 --> 00:34:04,891
Absolutely.

447
00:34:05,332 --> 00:34:07,631
And sometimes you see these public figures

448
00:34:07,631 --> 00:34:09,191
and they're speaking on behalf

449
00:34:09,191 --> 00:34:11,052
of a very, very powerful institution.

450
00:34:11,052 --> 00:34:14,072
And you know that maybe you disagree

451
00:34:14,072 --> 00:34:15,791
or you don't trust what they're saying.

452
00:34:15,992 --> 00:34:18,392
If you had the ability to sit down

453
00:34:18,392 --> 00:34:21,471
in a closed room with that person

454
00:34:21,471 --> 00:34:23,311
and actually have a heart to heart with them,

455
00:34:23,872 --> 00:34:26,831
I feel like you can get on a human level,

456
00:34:27,012 --> 00:34:29,151
a better understanding of where they're coming from,

457
00:34:29,231 --> 00:34:30,552
what their experience is,

458
00:34:30,552 --> 00:34:31,612
if they're willing to listen.

459
00:34:31,771 --> 00:34:33,171
Like that's actually really important, right?

460
00:34:33,191 --> 00:34:35,191
Because sometimes I think what gets frustrating

461
00:34:35,191 --> 00:34:37,911
for us Bitcoiners is we want to have these conversations

462
00:34:37,911 --> 00:34:39,552
and we want to reach out and engage.

463
00:34:40,012 --> 00:34:42,711
And oftentimes it's like the hand is stuck up to us

464
00:34:42,711 --> 00:34:44,892
and it's like, no, we don't want you at all.

465
00:34:45,372 --> 00:34:47,651
I feel like if these people sat down with us,

466
00:34:48,112 --> 00:34:51,111
whatever, you know, ivory tower they're sitting in

467
00:34:51,112 --> 00:34:53,671
and they had a real conversation about value,

468
00:34:53,811 --> 00:34:56,992
about time, about money, about opportunity, about freedom,

469
00:34:57,392 --> 00:34:59,431
they would probably be on the same page as us.

470
00:34:59,811 --> 00:35:03,092
They would probably feel and value the same things as us.

471
00:35:03,552 --> 00:35:05,892
And so I feel like that's like, how do we do that?

472
00:35:05,992 --> 00:35:07,552
How do we reach people in that way

473
00:35:07,552 --> 00:35:10,052
as opposed to all of us just like throwing,

474
00:35:10,291 --> 00:35:11,771
you know, insults publicly

475
00:35:11,771 --> 00:35:14,451
and we divide ourselves in teams

476
00:35:14,451 --> 00:35:15,372
and nothing gets said.

477
00:35:15,431 --> 00:35:17,211
We just talk past each other all the time.

478
00:35:17,231 --> 00:35:18,171
And that's what worries me

479
00:35:18,171 --> 00:35:19,811
because like we're missing them

480
00:35:19,811 --> 00:35:21,052
and they won't pick up your book.

481
00:35:21,112 --> 00:35:25,872
to read it right they won't they won't watch your show because they just assume things about you

482
00:35:25,872 --> 00:35:30,451
and i just wish we would do things that would encourage more dialogue and conversation because

483
00:35:30,451 --> 00:35:37,631
then i think we would bring more people into the bitcoin noah's ark yeah yeah absolutely have you

484
00:35:37,631 --> 00:35:45,291
read 1984 by george orwell yes my favorite part about that book is the ending where there turns

485
00:35:45,291 --> 00:35:51,291
out that there is no big brother it's just the system that makes makes the and i see a lot of

486
00:35:51,291 --> 00:35:58,191
conspiracy theories thrive within the bitcoin space like people people tend to and i like the

487
00:35:58,191 --> 00:36:04,131
diversity of ideas don't get me wrong here and you shouldn't trust the science too much but but in the

488
00:36:04,131 --> 00:36:10,211
bitcoin space there's there's a lot of people who have this or that conspiracy theory to cling on to

489
00:36:10,211 --> 00:36:14,691
and that this is obviously an evil schemer doing this or that.

490
00:36:14,951 --> 00:36:17,612
But I think that Orwell was right.

491
00:36:18,012 --> 00:36:21,811
You don't need the evil mastermind in the lair.

492
00:36:21,992 --> 00:36:25,512
You just need the flawed system to make the incentives in such a way

493
00:36:25,512 --> 00:36:30,451
that we end up chasing money and we end up in a skyscraper somewhere

494
00:36:30,451 --> 00:36:35,451
and we're really feeding the beast without knowing that that's what we're doing.

495
00:36:35,631 --> 00:36:37,811
And as you say, if we sat down with these people,

496
00:36:37,811 --> 00:36:41,251
I think we could get on the same page easily.

497
00:36:41,631 --> 00:36:43,572
People don't know that what they're doing

498
00:36:43,572 --> 00:36:45,331
is fueling something evil.

499
00:36:45,592 --> 00:36:47,211
I don't believe that.

500
00:36:47,791 --> 00:36:48,151
I agree.

501
00:36:48,331 --> 00:36:49,611
I always question,

502
00:36:49,751 --> 00:36:50,931
especially when I see leaders

503
00:36:50,931 --> 00:36:52,552
do some of the things that they do,

504
00:36:53,331 --> 00:36:56,911
is it ignorance or incompetence

505
00:36:56,911 --> 00:36:57,831
or is it malice?

506
00:36:58,271 --> 00:36:59,211
And I do think there is,

507
00:36:59,311 --> 00:37:01,331
I'm certain there are people out there

508
00:37:01,331 --> 00:37:02,271
that are bad and evil,

509
00:37:02,931 --> 00:37:04,711
but I don't think it's as many

510
00:37:04,711 --> 00:37:06,811
as there are just people who are ignorant

511
00:37:06,811 --> 00:37:10,572
to what we now know and maybe incompetent.

512
00:37:10,811 --> 00:37:12,271
And sometimes incompetent people

513
00:37:12,271 --> 00:37:15,971
get to pretty high levels of power, unfortunately.

514
00:37:15,971 --> 00:37:16,372
Yeah, no shit.

515
00:37:16,691 --> 00:37:19,831
Like we have a system that doesn't reward competence

516
00:37:19,831 --> 00:37:21,892
or merit or value right now.

517
00:37:22,072 --> 00:37:25,092
We have a system that rewards people who are insiders.

518
00:37:25,451 --> 00:37:28,411
And I just think that that's one of the best aspects

519
00:37:28,411 --> 00:37:28,892
of Bitcoin.

520
00:37:29,072 --> 00:37:31,631
I don't know why as a society,

521
00:37:31,631 --> 00:37:35,251
we're so scared now of competition, right?

522
00:37:35,251 --> 00:37:37,392
I mean, it's like we have to level the playing field.

523
00:37:37,931 --> 00:37:39,711
Like everyone has to have a trophy.

524
00:37:40,532 --> 00:37:42,392
Everyone has to start on third base.

525
00:37:42,492 --> 00:37:42,831
Why?

526
00:37:43,251 --> 00:37:44,791
I mean, I feel like one of the reasons

527
00:37:44,791 --> 00:37:47,771
why I've reached a level of confidence

528
00:37:47,771 --> 00:37:51,352
and the ability to endure difficult things

529
00:37:51,352 --> 00:37:53,572
is because I've struggled in the past

530
00:37:53,572 --> 00:37:55,032
and I've seen my family struggle

531
00:37:55,032 --> 00:37:56,392
and it has built character.

532
00:37:56,911 --> 00:37:57,751
It's that meme, right?

533
00:37:57,831 --> 00:37:59,572
Like hard times create strong men.

534
00:37:59,711 --> 00:38:01,151
Strong men create easy times.

535
00:38:01,271 --> 00:38:02,451
Easy times create weak men.

536
00:38:02,451 --> 00:38:08,092
And I think that sometimes people get into this fog of like, I'm a victim.

537
00:38:09,151 --> 00:38:12,811
You owe me some of what you earned.

538
00:38:12,931 --> 00:38:14,012
You owe it to me.

539
00:38:14,412 --> 00:38:16,251
Well, it's like, no, maybe not.

540
00:38:16,711 --> 00:38:17,671
It's not that I'm a get...

541
00:38:17,671 --> 00:38:20,311
I feel like charity should come from the private sector.

542
00:38:20,311 --> 00:38:26,492
And I actually think that we would be more incredibly charitable if we didn't feel like

543
00:38:26,492 --> 00:38:28,872
someone was taking from us all the time, right?

544
00:38:28,931 --> 00:38:32,092
Because when I'm getting taxed, I'm just like, where is this even going?

545
00:38:32,451 --> 00:38:36,512
Where's this going? I don't see the value for this. Now, do I want to help my neighbor? Absolutely.

546
00:38:36,951 --> 00:38:40,671
But I have a personal relationship with my neighbor, right? And I want to help them and

547
00:38:40,671 --> 00:38:45,392
I want them to succeed and I want my community to succeed. But when people are just taking from you

548
00:38:45,392 --> 00:38:51,711
or saying like, you owe me, I think it creates resentment from people. And I think just in

549
00:38:51,711 --> 00:38:57,731
general today, the fiat world has put so much downward pressure on the average working person

550
00:38:57,731 --> 00:39:01,171
where they play by all the rules, they do everything right, they work really hard,

551
00:39:01,171 --> 00:39:06,352
and they're still behind. And so, of course, they're like, this is unfair. And they get into

552
00:39:06,352 --> 00:39:12,372
bad moods and they might resort to things that are more aligned with short-term thinking or

553
00:39:12,372 --> 00:39:20,211
with things that aren't maybe like positive actions within their communities because they're

554
00:39:20,211 --> 00:39:25,711
just feeling so desperate. And I wonder if we had a sound money at the core of our system that

555
00:39:25,711 --> 00:39:31,331
encouraged us to provide value and to be of service to one another and actually be rewarded

556
00:39:31,331 --> 00:39:36,992
for that properly in a form of money that actually accrues value over time. How many wonderful things

557
00:39:36,992 --> 00:39:42,552
can we achieve? I mean, we've gotten this far with imperfect money. Think of how far we can go

558
00:39:42,552 --> 00:39:48,552
with perfect money that really rewards value. That's the world I want to envision and try to build.

559
00:39:48,552 --> 00:40:11,231
Yeah, the thesis with hard men create good times and hard times create good men and so on and so forth and good women. I'd like to ask you, did Bitcoin do anything to your self-confidence? Because it certainly did to mine.

560
00:40:11,231 --> 00:40:17,532
like it it changed my the the saying is if you don't believe in yourself no one else will

561
00:40:17,532 --> 00:40:23,352
and there's power in that i think so so what what's your journey there like what's your experience

562
00:40:23,352 --> 00:40:28,091
with i mean you seem like you were pretty confident before bitcoin too so so like what

563
00:40:28,091 --> 00:40:32,532
what would you say to that oh god i mean i could write a book about that i feel like

564
00:40:32,532 --> 00:40:39,751
the journey of confidence is one that is very layered and and a little bit like a roller coaster

565
00:40:39,751 --> 00:40:46,032
I'm really lucky that I had parents that tried to instill as much confidence in me when I was young.

566
00:40:46,151 --> 00:40:48,592
I really did grow up believing in the American dream.

567
00:40:48,852 --> 00:40:54,271
And to me, what that means, and I share this in the book, because to me, the American dream is actually something very universal.

568
00:40:54,271 --> 00:40:59,691
But we call it the American dream, which is that you can come from anywhere, any background.

569
00:40:59,751 --> 00:41:05,072
And if you work hard and if you're a good person, you can achieve anything that you want.

570
00:41:05,311 --> 00:41:06,451
Like that possibility.

571
00:41:07,592 --> 00:41:08,791
It's filled with hope.

572
00:41:08,791 --> 00:41:14,891
It's like, if I do the right things, if I work hard, if I get that education, if I,

573
00:41:15,271 --> 00:41:18,271
you know, X, Y, Z, I can achieve my dreams.

574
00:41:19,012 --> 00:41:26,711
I loved that feeling and that possibility because to me, it gave me motivation to work

575
00:41:26,711 --> 00:41:27,052
hard.

576
00:41:27,211 --> 00:41:28,971
It gave me motivation to strive.

577
00:41:29,251 --> 00:41:31,751
And for me, I really wanted to make my parents proud.

578
00:41:31,852 --> 00:41:45,597
I wanted to justify the sacrifices that they made for us to be able to come to this country And then I felt like I started to lose maybe not confidence in myself but just confidence in the system right I mean

579
00:41:45,637 --> 00:41:49,977
after the great financial crisis, I was like this, no matter, I could play by all the rules

580
00:41:49,977 --> 00:41:56,577
and I could be a good person and I could still end up with none of the things that I really want.

581
00:41:56,577 --> 00:42:00,657
And it just gets harder and harder. And I'm on this treadmill that just keeps getting faster.

582
00:42:00,657 --> 00:42:02,297
and I don't know what to do.

583
00:42:02,377 --> 00:42:04,917
And I looked at the future with one as one of,

584
00:42:05,437 --> 00:42:07,297
you know, not having a lot of hope.

585
00:42:07,597 --> 00:42:08,997
I don't know if I can afford a family.

586
00:42:09,237 --> 00:42:10,037
How am I going to retire?

587
00:42:10,157 --> 00:42:10,897
Where should I live?

588
00:42:10,957 --> 00:42:12,057
Can I get a house ever?

589
00:42:12,477 --> 00:42:14,617
So I feel like that definitely hurt my confidence.

590
00:42:15,617 --> 00:42:19,997
And working in news as a woman, it's not easy for sure.

591
00:42:19,997 --> 00:42:23,057
It causes you to have a thick skin because people are very,

592
00:42:23,997 --> 00:42:27,077
people say things behind screens that they might not say

593
00:42:27,077 --> 00:42:29,617
if they're standing right next to you and to your face.

594
00:42:29,617 --> 00:42:42,537
So that was challenging for sure, because especially as a woman and you're working on a public-facing medium, we all have our insecurities, especially about our looks, things that maybe no one knows.

595
00:42:42,697 --> 00:42:48,257
But sometimes they'll email you or tell you or DM you the very thing that you're most insecure about.

596
00:42:48,437 --> 00:42:50,677
And they'll be like, you're this or you're that.

597
00:42:50,757 --> 00:42:51,637
And it sucks.

598
00:42:51,777 --> 00:42:52,637
And it sucks to read.

599
00:42:52,697 --> 00:42:53,317
And it hurts.

600
00:42:53,457 --> 00:42:55,937
And you try to remember that that's not what matters.

601
00:42:55,937 --> 00:42:57,397
It's your character.

602
00:42:57,697 --> 00:42:58,357
It's your mind.

603
00:42:58,357 --> 00:42:59,237
It's your thought.

604
00:42:59,237 --> 00:43:00,057
It's your kindness.

605
00:43:00,497 --> 00:43:03,117
So I went through my own journeys with that as well.

606
00:43:03,317 --> 00:43:07,317
And then when I entered Bitcoin, I lost a lot of confidence in the sense that I realized

607
00:43:07,317 --> 00:43:07,957
I knew nothing.

608
00:43:08,057 --> 00:43:09,197
I knew nothing about money.

609
00:43:09,317 --> 00:43:10,597
I have to learn all of this.

610
00:43:10,937 --> 00:43:14,657
There are people that are so brilliant for me to be able to even interview them or talk

611
00:43:14,657 --> 00:43:14,977
to them.

612
00:43:15,057 --> 00:43:16,157
I have to put in the work.

613
00:43:16,657 --> 00:43:18,337
You know, I got criticized.

614
00:43:18,917 --> 00:43:22,457
And I think that that, again, I struggled, but it helped.

615
00:43:22,537 --> 00:43:23,157
It really did.

616
00:43:23,217 --> 00:43:27,557
All the feedback, especially the criticism, which you tend to listen to more, right?

617
00:43:27,557 --> 00:43:29,497
You hear a compliment and you're like, thanks, whatever.

618
00:43:29,877 --> 00:43:31,657
But like the criticism, you're like, oh my God.

619
00:43:33,097 --> 00:43:34,397
And that helped me too.

620
00:43:34,477 --> 00:43:34,957
It pushed me.

621
00:43:35,057 --> 00:43:36,957
It was like, okay, Natalie, you really have to put in the work.

622
00:43:37,057 --> 00:43:38,197
You really have to read these books.

623
00:43:38,277 --> 00:43:39,277
You really have to pay attention.

624
00:43:39,417 --> 00:43:40,377
You have to watch things.

625
00:43:40,457 --> 00:43:45,637
You have to read when they make these, when they put out legislation, like read it.

626
00:43:45,737 --> 00:43:47,017
Take the time and read it.

627
00:43:47,077 --> 00:43:47,697
Just read it.

628
00:43:47,917 --> 00:43:52,697
And it challenged me in a really constructive way so that I did feel more confident.

629
00:43:52,697 --> 00:43:57,037
So by the time I was able to go on things like news programs and talk about Bitcoin,

630
00:43:57,557 --> 00:44:02,617
I had gained a little bit more of that, you know, my legs underneath me to be like, I do know what

631
00:44:02,617 --> 00:44:06,517
I'm talking about and I want to share it with you. I don't know everything, right? And I could still

632
00:44:06,517 --> 00:44:12,677
be caught kind of deer in headlights. But the stuff that's really important, I feel like I can

633
00:44:12,677 --> 00:44:17,017
communicate. And it's always a journey because there's always something to learn. And some

634
00:44:17,017 --> 00:44:23,217
questions are challenging and facing people that really are against Bitcoin. It can be tough. It

635
00:44:23,217 --> 00:44:27,397
can be tough because they'll ask things and if they're so convinced that they're right whether

636
00:44:27,397 --> 00:44:34,217
it's about capitalism or energy or this or that sometimes it takes a bit to really try to weave

637
00:44:34,217 --> 00:44:40,657
your way through the arguments now a lot of things to unpack there you mentioned family and the

638
00:44:40,657 --> 00:44:46,497
american dream or parents i know my my dad had this he could never be wrong about anything it

639
00:44:46,497 --> 00:44:53,057
was that kind of boomer you know that and it some of that uh spilt over to to me and my brothers like

640
00:44:53,057 --> 00:44:58,897
we used to play a lot of trivia games and stuff and like it was very if there was something we

641
00:44:58,897 --> 00:45:03,457
didn't know we immediately looked it up because we didn't want to he put it like i don't want anyone

642
00:45:03,457 --> 00:45:08,777
to be able to ever sit on me and like lecture me about anything i want to know everything like

643
00:45:08,777 --> 00:45:16,397
be more well-read than anyone else in the room and that sort of caught on i hope if maybe maybe

644
00:45:16,397 --> 00:45:22,677
not to a big enough extent but but also like what you said about the american dream being universal

645
00:45:22,677 --> 00:45:46,177
I totally agree with that. And I think people who believe in themselves to that extent, that if you work hard and you're motivated, you really can get as far as you want, regardless of where you're born. You can just move and do the things. And it's the literal opposite of the victim mentality. It's the inverse of the victim mentality.

646
00:45:46,177 --> 00:45:48,257
Like, I'm not going to be a victim.

647
00:45:48,817 --> 00:45:51,917
I don't care if I lose my legs to a landmine.

648
00:45:52,117 --> 00:45:53,797
Like, I'm still not the fucking victim.

649
00:45:53,937 --> 00:45:54,837
I'm going to fucking win.

650
00:45:55,417 --> 00:45:57,077
And I love that attitude.

651
00:45:57,397 --> 00:46:03,077
And if everyone had it, we wouldn't have any problems in the world, I think.

652
00:46:03,577 --> 00:46:06,817
Like, because everyone would be working hard for everyone else.

653
00:46:07,037 --> 00:46:09,237
And trade and everything would be fine.

654
00:46:09,897 --> 00:46:11,657
Well, and you brought up something important.

655
00:46:12,037 --> 00:46:13,557
You know, we are all built.

656
00:46:13,777 --> 00:46:15,897
We all come with, like, different skill sets.

657
00:46:15,897 --> 00:46:17,117
We come from different backgrounds.

658
00:46:17,257 --> 00:46:19,837
We can't choose where we're born or who our parents are.

659
00:46:20,397 --> 00:46:25,937
But today especially, most people around the world have one of these.

660
00:46:26,497 --> 00:46:32,317
It's actually the statistics of how many people have phones, have internet phones around the

661
00:46:32,317 --> 00:46:36,557
world was shocking to me because I thought it would be maybe lower, right?

662
00:46:36,617 --> 00:46:41,797
But it's literally billions of people have access to more information than generations

663
00:46:41,797 --> 00:46:44,737
ago, like the highest of society did.

664
00:46:44,737 --> 00:46:45,057
Yeah.

665
00:46:45,897 --> 00:46:52,597
anyone can start to learn. And I feel like reading is something that is undervalued and

666
00:46:52,597 --> 00:46:57,157
underappreciated. Like reading teaches us so much, being able to critically think,

667
00:46:57,537 --> 00:47:02,237
and you don't necessarily even need school in order to start to do that and start to learn.

668
00:47:02,517 --> 00:47:05,777
And it makes me sad when I see the statistics of just about literacy,

669
00:47:06,417 --> 00:47:08,877
because you can talk about financial literacy. That's one thing that's like

670
00:47:08,877 --> 00:47:13,897
on a higher level, but just literacy in general, like a lot of people can't read past a certain

671
00:47:13,897 --> 00:47:20,997
elementary grade level. And you can't achieve very much, I think, in life if you're not a reader.

672
00:47:21,437 --> 00:47:26,597
And anyone can do this. I feel like that's what is kind of a leveler. If people want more equality,

673
00:47:27,317 --> 00:47:33,257
it's like, well, I do think that everyone needs an opportunity to get an education. And we do have

674
00:47:33,257 --> 00:47:39,797
that. People can start to learn skills and trades and history and start to critically think. And

675
00:47:39,797 --> 00:47:43,737
And that's the base layer for me in terms of education and knowledge.

676
00:47:44,497 --> 00:47:52,277
And I just wish more people appreciated that because that would help so many things in society.

677
00:47:52,277 --> 00:47:59,317
I feel like if we had a more informed public that cared and that read and paid attention to what was happening,

678
00:47:59,317 --> 00:48:10,417
then we would have a public that might, you know, fight against something like tyranny as opposed to be led like sheep into the slaughterhouse.

679
00:48:10,577 --> 00:48:13,137
And that's, I think, something that Henry Ford called out, right?

680
00:48:13,177 --> 00:48:17,577
Like if the people understood how the banking system worked, we would have a revolution by morning.

681
00:48:17,817 --> 00:48:18,497
Revolution before dawn.

682
00:48:18,517 --> 00:48:18,817
We don't.

683
00:48:18,857 --> 00:48:19,777
Before dawn, yeah.

684
00:48:19,777 --> 00:48:28,857
And you might be born the tallest and the most beautiful and the best, you know, primed to be the best athlete, but maybe not.

685
00:48:28,857 --> 00:48:31,697
But all of us can start to work our minds and read.

686
00:48:31,797 --> 00:48:35,817
I feel like that's a muscle that we can all use no matter where we are.

687
00:48:35,897 --> 00:48:37,477
And I just, I wish more people would read.

688
00:48:38,277 --> 00:48:40,777
Maybe you should write a book called Reading is for Everyone.

689
00:48:41,177 --> 00:48:44,357
But then again, the people who couldn't read, couldn't read it.

690
00:48:44,437 --> 00:48:46,097
So it would be kind of redundant.

691
00:48:46,617 --> 00:48:53,437
Anyway, yeah, I think it's a huge problem that people compare themselves to their peers, right?

692
00:48:53,597 --> 00:48:58,077
Instead of comparing themselves to their past selves, which is all that matters.

693
00:48:58,077 --> 00:49:03,857
like if you're gonna compare yourself to anything like am i doing better today than yesterday like

694
00:49:03,857 --> 00:49:09,197
that's that's the only thing that matters like comparing yourself to others it's just completely

695
00:49:09,197 --> 00:49:18,477
it's a red herring at best like it it will give you no greater satisfaction with your life because

696
00:49:18,477 --> 00:49:23,717
there's always someone taller someone more beautiful someone more athletic someone smarter

697
00:49:23,717 --> 00:49:34,217
someone wiser you you can't like but i mean if if you compare yourself to your to your previous

698
00:49:34,217 --> 00:49:39,437
self though you can you can certainly see and if you have one set more than last year you're an

699
00:49:39,437 --> 00:49:45,557
absolute winner yeah yeah yeah and the most interesting people i've met are honestly the

700
00:49:45,557 --> 00:49:51,317
most well-read people like and and you can see it in our space too when you talk to some of these

701
00:49:51,317 --> 00:49:56,577
amazing minds, you're like that person, like Preston, Preston has read every book under the

702
00:49:56,577 --> 00:50:02,777
sun. Michael Saylor has read every book under the sun. When you talk to these people, you know

703
00:50:02,777 --> 00:50:08,977
how much they've explored. And it's not just been in their own ecosystem of what they believe

704
00:50:08,977 --> 00:50:14,837
just to reinforce whatever. No, they've branched out into all sorts of different areas. And

705
00:50:14,837 --> 00:50:17,177
You know, like Lynn loves sci-fi.

706
00:50:17,357 --> 00:50:19,037
Preston loves reading about the brain.

707
00:50:19,177 --> 00:50:23,377
Like, it's just so cool that people are interested and explore and learn.

708
00:50:23,457 --> 00:50:26,777
And I think learners, like lifelong learners, are the most interesting people.

709
00:50:27,777 --> 00:50:27,957
Yeah.

710
00:50:27,957 --> 00:50:39,657
I mean, having an inquisitive mind can be annoying at some times because you need to look everything up and be like, maybe sometimes you're too curious.

711
00:50:39,917 --> 00:50:41,397
But it's also very rewarding.

712
00:50:41,637 --> 00:50:42,997
I mean, how else?

713
00:50:42,997 --> 00:50:50,077
better than watching kim kardashian yeah yeah i i wouldn't know how to not feed my brain with

714
00:50:50,077 --> 00:50:55,217
information at all times i don't know how people do that there's always something running in the

715
00:50:55,217 --> 00:51:01,737
background and sure i mean we all have our different areas of expertise and no one can

716
00:51:01,737 --> 00:51:07,717
know everything but my dad always used to say it's better to be a complete idiot than uh

717
00:51:07,717 --> 00:51:15,677
uh there's no real good english word for this but it's like an idiot within your your specific field

718
00:51:15,677 --> 00:51:20,457
that that only knows one thing it's better to be a complete idiot than the idiot so only knows one

719
00:51:20,457 --> 00:51:31,237
thing yeah yeah i tend to agree yeah so so is there would you say that there's anything in your

720
00:51:31,237 --> 00:51:39,297
book that is your like original idea like a thesis that is you don't find in other bitcoin books

721
00:51:39,297 --> 00:51:46,817
that's a good question i mean i i think that one thing that i wanted to share was just a little bit

722
00:51:46,817 --> 00:51:56,597
of my personal journey into this whole space because i relate to so many people who are

723
00:51:56,597 --> 00:52:03,317
struggling today and who are skeptical about Bitcoin. And I tried to just demystify all the

724
00:52:03,317 --> 00:52:08,597
things that I worried about when I was first entering the space. So it's not so much that

725
00:52:08,597 --> 00:52:17,397
I guess it's very new, but just that I tried to make Bitcoin something that anyone feels like they

726
00:52:17,397 --> 00:52:22,557
can be empowered by and that it doesn't matter what they studied. It doesn't matter what their

727
00:52:22,557 --> 00:52:28,437
job is. And it doesn't matter how technical or not they think they are. It's something that really

728
00:52:28,437 --> 00:52:33,197
they can take seriously and embrace and start to learn at this point. It's just like a very

729
00:52:33,197 --> 00:52:40,317
welcoming book. And as far as... I mean, everyone has their own way of kind of explaining inflation

730
00:52:40,317 --> 00:52:46,777
and analogies. I hope that people find something new in the analogies that I make. I have analogies

731
00:52:46,777 --> 00:52:52,297
to inflation and I use the Monopoly game as a reference and just different things that hopefully

732
00:52:52,297 --> 00:52:57,117
will help people. I use different analogies when it comes to learning about Bitcoin mining and the

733
00:52:57,117 --> 00:53:01,177
difficulty adjustment. So maybe there's something new, but I don't know. It's just, I feel like,

734
00:53:01,237 --> 00:53:04,817
I feel like Bitcoin's a lot of, a lot of the same things just said a little differently.

735
00:53:05,557 --> 00:53:12,597
A couple of funny asides here about the Monopoly game. Like, like if you have one of the first 50

736
00:53:12,597 --> 00:53:18,757
editions of that game that was ever printed, the dollars in the, the in-game dollars are worth more

737
00:53:18,757 --> 00:53:26,977
than real dollars no way yeah i believe it it's just it's just insane and and also the the fact

738
00:53:26,977 --> 00:53:34,237
that the rules of monopoly explicitly say that if the bank runs out of money just write down

739
00:53:34,237 --> 00:53:42,057
numbers on pieces of paper print more money oh yeah i love it like it's it's it's so there are

740
00:53:42,057 --> 00:53:47,177
so many lessons to be learned there i know well this isn't related to monopoly but i actually just

741
00:53:47,177 --> 00:53:54,437
read today that early lego lego toy employees once they hit i don't know if it was five or ten

742
00:53:54,437 --> 00:54:00,977
years with the company they were given a lego block made out of 24 karat gold and it was almost

743
00:54:00,977 --> 00:54:10,657
an ounce and now each one is worth so much yeah not funny yeah i can imagine like yeah and lego

744
00:54:10,657 --> 00:54:16,157
lego is just used to be a very small company from a very small village in denmark

745
00:54:16,157 --> 00:54:22,397
yeah they they in Denmark there's I don't know how many inhabitants they have now but

746
00:54:22,397 --> 00:54:28,917
Lego started it's just a couple of thousand I believe so I like pretty cool pretty cool story

747
00:54:28,917 --> 00:54:34,017
yeah I like I love Lego yeah I so I grew up with an older brother and he's quite a bit older than

748
00:54:34,017 --> 00:54:39,857
me and so I always wanted to I always wanted a reason for him to want to spend time with me

749
00:54:39,857 --> 00:54:45,037
right so I wanted an excuse to be close to him so I wanted to play with his toys I wanted to

750
00:54:45,037 --> 00:54:50,417
watch the movies he watched so i'm so into like his generation of movies and music and i'll never

751
00:54:50,417 --> 00:54:55,737
forget he had legos and i i would play with them even though it wasn't like i guess i loved my

752
00:54:55,737 --> 00:55:00,057
dolls too but i loved his legos because i was like oh i want it i want to be cool like my brother

753
00:55:00,057 --> 00:55:06,077
and you know lego is a good bitcoin analogy because it's backwards compatible it has never

754
00:55:06,077 --> 00:55:12,637
been hard forked like it's always it has only been soft forked that's true they're all those

755
00:55:12,637 --> 00:55:14,777
golden Legos, a modern

756
00:55:14,777 --> 00:55:16,117
Lego would attach to it.

757
00:55:16,417 --> 00:55:18,277
Yeah, that's true.

758
00:55:18,277 --> 00:55:20,297
And the word

759
00:55:20,297 --> 00:55:22,297
Lego, it's Danish, it literally

760
00:55:22,297 --> 00:55:24,217
means play good or play

761
00:55:24,217 --> 00:55:26,437
nice. Oh, really? I didn't know that.

762
00:55:26,617 --> 00:55:26,977
That's cool.

763
00:55:28,497 --> 00:55:29,817
Leg is like

764
00:55:29,817 --> 00:55:32,177
child's play and go

765
00:55:32,177 --> 00:55:33,257
is like

766
00:55:33,303 --> 00:55:37,143
Oh, that's cool. I didn't know that. See, I learned something new.

767
00:55:37,683 --> 00:55:42,163
No, Legos are fantastic. They're getting more expensive though, when you see them in airports

768
00:55:42,163 --> 00:55:46,823
and stuff, which is, I don't see Legos very often, except for in the airport. I mean,

769
00:55:47,143 --> 00:55:51,923
when the kids were younger, they played with them, of course. And I remember my son could just sit

770
00:55:51,923 --> 00:55:58,243
for hours on end and build something and it's beautiful. Everything's getting more expensive

771
00:55:58,243 --> 00:55:59,563
and lower in quality.

772
00:55:59,903 --> 00:56:02,063
And I didn't understand why until Bitcoin.

773
00:56:02,623 --> 00:56:05,083
No, because you were using the wrong denominator.

774
00:56:05,403 --> 00:56:06,763
And if you're using the correct one,

775
00:56:06,803 --> 00:56:09,663
you can see that everything is actually becoming more cheap,

776
00:56:09,943 --> 00:56:11,623
like becoming cheaper every day.

777
00:56:12,143 --> 00:56:15,343
Just have to view the world through the correct lens, right?

778
00:56:16,723 --> 00:56:16,963
Yeah.

779
00:56:17,963 --> 00:56:18,443
Yeah.

780
00:56:18,663 --> 00:56:21,423
So we've chatted for about an hour.

781
00:56:21,423 --> 00:56:23,843
Is there anything we haven't talked about

782
00:56:23,843 --> 00:56:24,943
that you want to talk about?

783
00:56:25,143 --> 00:56:26,263
Like, can you think of anything?

784
00:56:26,263 --> 00:56:32,363
i see your beautiful youtube placard there behind you what is that like 100 000 subscribers or what

785
00:56:32,363 --> 00:56:38,563
is a million views 100 000 subscribers yeah where i mean the next plaque up it's a big one it's like

786
00:56:38,563 --> 00:56:44,563
a big jump they give you one and i think a million after this so it's far as far away i have like 220

787
00:56:44,563 --> 00:56:52,583
000 subscribers but it was such an honor yeah when i got that i mean i believe me i never i never set

788
00:56:52,583 --> 00:56:57,743
out to be a content creator. I didn't think it was possible. In fact, if anything, it was kind of

789
00:56:57,743 --> 00:57:02,503
like I probably saw it the way so many people see Bitcoin. I was like, well, I'm too late. All the

790
00:57:02,503 --> 00:57:07,643
podcasts are out there. All the YouTubers are already doing their thing. I just started my

791
00:57:07,643 --> 00:57:12,223
podcast just for fun and as a hobby. And I would have never in my wildest dreams thought that I

792
00:57:12,223 --> 00:57:17,643
could build something that means so much to me that feels so special and where I feel so rewarded.

793
00:57:18,023 --> 00:57:22,383
And I'm so grateful. There's so many things that Bitcoin has given me that I never

794
00:57:22,383 --> 00:57:28,543
expected and i'm just so grateful no i'm well deserved like you deserve all of it like you

795
00:57:28,543 --> 00:57:35,823
really put in the work and you have a unique you have unique communication skills that most people

796
00:57:35,823 --> 00:57:43,063
in the bitcoin space are like light years away from most people and i have a theory that the

797
00:57:43,063 --> 00:57:49,083
earlier you were into bitcoin the more disagreeable you were so so you're like so in the beginning in

798
00:57:49,083 --> 00:57:55,363
the beginning, you get your Greg Maxwell's and your Nick Sawas and stuff and your Luke

799
00:57:55,363 --> 00:58:02,223
Dashers. And further along, like you get slightly more agreeable people and you get my generation,

800
00:58:02,223 --> 00:58:07,783
which is still kind of disagreeable, but slightly more agreeable. And then as you go further,

801
00:58:07,883 --> 00:58:12,903
you get your Natalie's and your Joe Nakamoto's and stuff that are much more agreeable and much

802
00:58:12,903 --> 00:58:18,543
better at communication in general than the early boys. And we sort of needed them

803
00:58:18,543 --> 00:58:22,963
to get this don't trust verify attitude into our minds.

804
00:58:23,163 --> 00:58:26,283
And then we're the ones that are now a decade later,

805
00:58:26,463 --> 00:58:29,403
or I'm not in the, I'm sort of in the middle,

806
00:58:29,883 --> 00:58:33,163
but people like you can communicate these thoughts

807
00:58:33,163 --> 00:58:34,143
to other people.

808
00:58:34,263 --> 00:58:36,023
So I think it all serves a function.

809
00:58:36,143 --> 00:58:37,363
It's the vision of labor.

810
00:58:37,583 --> 00:58:38,763
It's how it's supposed to be.

811
00:58:39,783 --> 00:58:41,183
Well, I appreciate that.

812
00:58:41,283 --> 00:58:43,103
Yeah, I mean, I always wanted to be a storyteller.

813
00:58:43,103 --> 00:58:45,643
I did, and I share a little bit of that in the book.

814
00:58:45,643 --> 00:59:03,697
But it was interesting too because when I was working in media I never thought that TV would be disrupted by the Internet I would have probably studied something different just because there was so much change in the decade the 2010s in terms of just Facebook all of a sudden

815
00:59:03,957 --> 00:59:07,537
And Twitter and citizen journalists and everyone starting their own shows.

816
00:59:07,737 --> 00:59:09,237
That's something I never, ever anticipated.

817
00:59:09,917 --> 00:59:11,957
And I think a lot of people didn't either.

818
00:59:12,477 --> 00:59:18,677
But it's so interesting to now look back because it's like fiat does put you in this frame of mind of just being a good soldier.

819
00:59:18,677 --> 00:59:24,557
You know, nine to five, work your job, get your 401k, just don't think outside the box.

820
00:59:25,457 --> 00:59:31,217
And it wasn't until Bitcoin that I realized I could kind of specialize in something and that

821
00:59:31,217 --> 00:59:36,637
that would be marketable. And I can take my background of communication and storytelling

822
00:59:36,637 --> 00:59:42,637
and apply it to this passion that I have that I think is so important and is an incredible mission.

823
00:59:42,997 --> 00:59:47,417
And I could create a business out of that. And that's what... So I really like... I use my story

824
00:59:47,417 --> 00:59:48,457
just to encourage people

825
00:59:48,457 --> 00:59:50,137
because I think everyone has something

826
00:59:50,137 --> 00:59:51,897
that they're really passionate about

827
00:59:51,897 --> 00:59:53,137
and maybe really good at

828
00:59:53,137 --> 00:59:55,277
and they can apply it to Bitcoin

829
00:59:55,277 --> 00:59:57,337
and serve the community

830
00:59:57,337 --> 00:59:59,777
and serve the mission of educating people.

831
01:00:00,037 --> 01:00:01,597
And we just need so many more people

832
01:00:01,597 --> 01:00:04,217
to share this message with the world.

833
01:00:05,077 --> 01:00:06,537
Yeah, and the Bitcoin is money.

834
01:00:06,737 --> 01:00:07,457
You can use it.

835
01:00:07,577 --> 01:00:08,437
You can exchange it

836
01:00:08,437 --> 01:00:10,417
for every other good and service in the world.

837
01:00:10,877 --> 01:00:12,317
So start accepting Bitcoin

838
01:00:12,317 --> 01:00:13,257
for your goods and services

839
01:00:13,257 --> 01:00:15,517
and then you're in the game.

840
01:00:16,057 --> 01:00:16,857
This reminds me,

841
01:00:16,857 --> 01:00:24,377
another funny coincidence here. Like the, I, I was in high school when the internet started taking

842
01:00:24,377 --> 01:00:31,737
off right around 95, 96, something, and you get your Netscape navigators and, and all of this,

843
01:00:31,737 --> 01:00:37,097
like internet is new. Google is not there any yet. There is no social media or anything. And

844
01:00:37,817 --> 01:00:43,097
I sort of saw this. I remember like thinking, holy shit, all the computers in the world are going to

845
01:00:43,097 --> 01:00:49,377
to be connected now this is this is like gonna this is gonna change everything but not acting on

846
01:00:49,377 --> 01:00:55,557
it because you're you're a confused teenager like lazy and not really knowing what to do with your

847
01:00:55,557 --> 01:01:03,117
life so i didn't go into computing or or programming or anything even though i i i made little computer

848
01:01:03,117 --> 01:01:09,597
games and stuff as as a child and grew up with my commodore 64 and and did all these things but then

849
01:01:09,597 --> 01:01:15,797
pursued a different career and walked in my father's footsteps maybe and like studied to

850
01:01:15,797 --> 01:01:21,277
be a sea captain instead at some point i started studying electronics engineering but i was so

851
01:01:21,277 --> 01:01:27,557
tired of school that i chose this other path and when bitcoin came along like 20 years down the

852
01:01:27,557 --> 01:01:33,537
line i i had that same feeling again like i saw something that was going to change the world

853
01:01:33,537 --> 01:01:37,517
but this time i was not going to miss the fucking train i was going to act

854
01:01:37,517 --> 01:01:44,317
because nothing will stop this train as you as we know so so i had to get on this specific train

855
01:01:44,317 --> 01:01:49,317
now i was not going to miss my shot this time like here i have asymmetric information i know

856
01:01:49,317 --> 01:01:56,197
something that i see something that other people don't can you was that a similar of course my

857
01:01:56,197 --> 01:02:00,697
story is different from yours but did you have a similar feeling when you when you when you saw it

858
01:02:00,697 --> 01:02:07,497
like what why aren't anyone else why isn't anyone else seeing this thing well i definitely feel that

859
01:02:07,497 --> 01:02:27,171
That way in terms of just my peers and the people I used to work with in news I think it because I reported on all the problems so closely So I was in the middle of the problem every day And my specialty like the thing I loved to do journalism on the most

860
01:02:27,171 --> 01:02:30,451
was public corruption investigations.

861
01:02:30,891 --> 01:02:33,151
I was just like, I want to hold these people accountable.

862
01:02:33,471 --> 01:02:35,111
I just, it really angered.

863
01:02:35,111 --> 01:02:37,431
Corruption really angered me.

864
01:02:37,631 --> 01:02:39,251
I don't know why that was like my thing.

865
01:02:39,251 --> 01:02:47,611
That was my beat for most of my reporter jobs. And so it's like I saw the problem so clearly,

866
01:02:47,751 --> 01:02:52,391
and so many of my colleagues did too. And when I saw Bitcoin, when the veil was taken

867
01:02:52,391 --> 01:02:56,931
out from over my eyes, I was like, oh my gosh, this is why the problem exists.

868
01:02:57,511 --> 01:03:03,411
This is what the problem actually is. This is a solution. Hello, everybody, look, look, it's this.

869
01:03:03,411 --> 01:03:11,971
And I think it's what's wild to me is that people who have looked at Bitcoin a little bit could be like, no, no, this is like nothing.

870
01:03:12,091 --> 01:03:13,631
I don't need to pay attention to this.

871
01:03:13,731 --> 01:03:20,991
And that's what I've experienced because obviously I do have people, not all my friends, because I've certainly gotten a lot of my friends into Bitcoin, which makes me really happy.

872
01:03:21,391 --> 01:03:33,031
But there's definitely been people that I've worked with or that have been in some of my life experiences where I've shared the message with them and they still dismiss it and they think I'm crazy or something that I've devoted my life to this.

873
01:03:33,031 --> 01:03:36,231
And I'm like, how do you not see this yet?

874
01:03:36,331 --> 01:03:36,791
I don't know.

875
01:03:37,331 --> 01:03:38,651
So maybe my book will help.

876
01:03:38,731 --> 01:03:39,471
I'll send them my book.

877
01:03:39,931 --> 01:03:41,591
But yeah, it's just sometimes shocking.

878
01:03:41,891 --> 01:03:46,391
And yeah, to your point, I didn't want to miss out because I feel like this is so positive.

879
01:03:46,951 --> 01:03:53,211
I spent the last 10 years reporting on the worst sides of humanity, everything from corruption

880
01:03:53,211 --> 01:03:56,771
to mass shootings to just the worst things.

881
01:03:57,111 --> 01:04:00,391
The news van doesn't show up unless something terrible happened.

882
01:04:00,391 --> 01:04:19,871
And Bitcoin gave me such positivity, like such hope and this ability to think that things are going to be so much better if we just embrace this as opposed to a world where we just keep fighting and we keep feeling divided and feeling like we're not valued.

883
01:04:19,871 --> 01:04:24,251
and that's why i think it's so important to teach people because i don't i don't think people are bad

884
01:04:24,251 --> 01:04:28,091
maybe there are some bad apples out there but i really think that at the core people are just

885
01:04:28,091 --> 01:04:35,271
frustrated resentful they don't know what to do they're blaming themselves they're they're in

886
01:04:35,271 --> 01:04:40,371
victim mentalities and they need hope they need empowerment and that's what bitcoin represents

887
01:04:40,371 --> 01:04:49,351
yeah bitcoin is hope i mean it's it's 100 true i i uh rewrote the praxeology book uh

888
01:04:49,351 --> 01:04:53,271
a couple of months back and re-edited and made it more into a textbook.

889
01:04:53,371 --> 01:04:54,791
And I added three more chapters.

890
01:04:55,311 --> 01:04:57,651
And the last chapter is called What's About the Roads?

891
01:04:58,231 --> 01:05:02,371
And in this chapter, I use the Shawshank Redemption as the analogy.

892
01:05:03,011 --> 01:05:04,511
So you've seen the movie, right?

893
01:05:04,811 --> 01:05:07,731
I haven't. No, it's on my list. I need to see it now.

894
01:05:07,951 --> 01:05:11,631
So anyway, the movie is about being institutionalized, basically.

895
01:05:11,631 --> 01:05:14,951
So they're prisoners and there's this guy.

896
01:05:15,711 --> 01:05:19,091
The protagonist is called Andy Dufresne, played by Tim Robbins.

897
01:05:19,351 --> 01:05:26,411
and his best friend red is played by morgan freeman and morgan freeman warns andy that hope

898
01:05:26,411 --> 01:05:32,031
is a dangerous thing because all it will lead to is you being disappointed and a miserable life

899
01:05:32,031 --> 01:05:46,505
and there one of their friends another inmate gets out of prison at 90 years old and he hangs himself two weeks later because he just can handle the outside world he used to his three free meals a day and every every rule

900
01:05:46,505 --> 01:05:51,945
and stuff and uh while the story is playing out and there's a lot of intrigues and this and that

901
01:05:51,945 --> 01:05:58,445
and he slowly but surely digs a tunnel out of the prison with a teaspoon literally so it takes him a

902
01:05:58,445 --> 01:06:05,505
decade to dig himself out of prison because he never lost hope and that's that's the the message

903
01:06:05,505 --> 01:06:11,825
of the movie and the message i want to convey in the book is exactly that the hope is an is the

904
01:06:11,825 --> 01:06:19,325
rational choice because the shawshank walls are only there if we allow them to be if if we let

905
01:06:19,325 --> 01:06:29,024
the totalitarians and the the the bad apples rule our lives then then they've won if if if we give in

906
01:06:29,024 --> 01:06:36,844
so so you you're gonna die anyway so you might as well live with hope and you might as well be

907
01:06:36,844 --> 01:06:44,365
hopeful and you might as well live i act as if bitcoin exists and i'm gonna keep doing so because

908
01:06:44,365 --> 01:06:51,765
it does so yeah yeah well said well said natalie it has been an absolute pleasure to talk to you

909
01:06:51,765 --> 01:06:57,824
again as uh i don't know when we last met new year's eve probably we'll we'll see we'll see

910
01:06:57,824 --> 01:07:03,224
where we uh see each other next i i don't know where or when but i'm looking forward to it

911
01:07:03,224 --> 01:07:09,164
i mean keep up all the good work you too people where can people get the book where can they buy

912
01:07:09,164 --> 01:07:13,964
it for bitcoin well it's available right now at every bookstore i went through a publisher so

913
01:07:13,964 --> 01:07:18,464
we're still figuring out accepting Bitcoin because that was really important to me. So I did tell

914
01:07:18,464 --> 01:07:24,664
them I really want to be able to accept Bitcoin. It's a traditional publisher. So we need to figure

915
01:07:24,664 --> 01:07:28,924
out those rails for them because I don't think they've accepted Bitcoin for any book before.

916
01:07:29,084 --> 01:07:33,505
So we will be the first. So that's important. It will be available for Bitcoin just right now,

917
01:07:33,544 --> 01:07:37,765
if you want to pre-order it, all the traditional bookstores. The publisher is out of the UK,

918
01:07:37,964 --> 01:07:40,424
actually. So if you're watching this, you're in Europe or you're listening,

919
01:07:40,424 --> 01:07:46,484
You definitely can get it at bookstores in Europe as well or on Amazon, Barnes & Noble if you're here in America.

920
01:07:47,145 --> 01:07:49,324
But yeah, we will figure out a way to accept Satoshi's.

921
01:07:49,865 --> 01:07:55,945
Yes, we helped Larry with that. Larry's book is available for Satoshi's on our Bitcoin Infinity website.

922
01:07:56,484 --> 01:08:00,724
So yeah, I don't know how this works when you're working with such a big publisher.

923
01:08:00,964 --> 01:08:06,365
Then it might be trickier, but if we can help, I'll be super happy to help.

924
01:08:06,365 --> 01:08:16,724
Well, thank you. I mean, we might start a movement for them, right? Maybe they'll accept Bitcoin for all their books after me. So we're working on it. We've got the initial seeds planted.

925
01:08:18,704 --> 01:08:29,984
Sounds great. Anyway, thank you so much for this conversation. I enjoyed it a lot. I hope you did too. And yeah, good luck with the book. Bitcoin is for everyone and Bitcoin is hope.

926
01:08:30,404 --> 01:08:31,484
Thank you so much.

927
01:08:31,484 --> 01:08:32,685
Don't stop believing.

928
01:08:33,824 --> 01:08:36,104
This has been the Bitcoin Infinity Show.

929
01:08:36,385 --> 01:08:37,185
Thanks for listening.

930
01:08:37,565 --> 01:08:39,685
Like, subscribe, brush your teeth and all of that.

931
01:08:39,945 --> 01:08:40,984
And thank you, Natalie.

932
01:08:42,464 --> 01:08:43,305
Thank you.

933
01:08:43,784 --> 01:08:44,765
Thanks so much.