Walking with Bitcoiners with Jacob from Bitcoin Walk - FFS #112

0:00 Jacob, welcome to the Freedom Footprint show. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. Yeah, good to see you again, Jacob. We, last time we met was on Madeira, if I, if I'm not wrong, and I think I'm not. Uh, yeah, uh, and, uh, you're a big Bitcoin walker, so, uh, how was the Bitcoin walks on Madeira? I missed out on most of them, I'm ashamed to say. I had plans on walking Levadas and stuff, but in the Didn't get to this this time. Madeira is such a great place for that, you know, it's such a beautiful island and it has plenty of labyrinths, you know, in the Levada, so it's easy to, very easy to get lost in nature there.

0:43 Um, but, um, you know, I, I had a bit of a challenge over there because I wanted to make sure that when we, when we do the Bitcoin walkover there, it would be safe, you know, for everybody who comes around and I wanted it to be, easy and wide enough so that people can mingle and, you know, change groups and have different conversations. So, uh, luckily with the, you know, great team from, um, Primavera and the Atlantis conference, they, they helped me find. The right, um, right circular route. So, uh, uh, that was, that was a really good one. it was tough to organize it in the sense that, you know, uh, levadas are a bit further up, so you have to, you know, get on the bus to get there basically. So I had to, you know, I had some constraints around the, um, the limit of the seats on the bus.

1:27 So I had to put up like a little registration form where people would sign up and say, okay, you know, I need two places. So. And, uh, yeah, basically I had a cap of 55 seats on the bus. Short anecdotes is that basically, you know, I put up a type form registration kind of thing. And because it was a free event and a side event and people wanted to do that anyway, I kind of ignored, you know, the, the, I announced that on, on, on Twitter and, um, kind of ignored, you know, the results. I didn't check it for a couple of days. So a few days later, I, uh, I log in back and there's like 65 people who signed, signed, signed up already. So, um, you know, basically I, I've only got 55 seats on the bus and it's still like two, more than two months until the conference happens, so I expect that there'll be more people who'd want to come.

2:15 And so, I reached out to the organizers and said, look, is there any chance we could do two walks by, you know, because this would probably be, you know, enough. And they said, yeah, we can do, you know, a morning, a morning walk and then the afternoon walk and this would be fine. So, um, I was like kind of relieved and left it and forgot about it, had different things, um, related to family and stuff. And, um, like two weeks before the conference, I kind of logged in again and there's 220 people signed up. Uh, so it's a good problem to have. Uh, I closed the registration by then and, uh, and decided to, that we would do, you know, free walks.

2:55 Um, so there was a nine o'clock at 12 o'clock and a two o'clock, uh, walk. Um, physically I couldn't do it myself. Like the middle one was tricky because, uh, I just couldn't be there in, you know, in the location to, to pick those guys up. But, uh, I, uh, quickly assembled, you know, a team of Bitcoin friends who were, who ended before, and they met, they, they agreed to, to lead the work in the middle. So I covered the one at 9 o'clock and one at 2 o'clock, and my friends covered the one at 12, and uh, yeah, everybody was happy. So before, before you got all this sorted out, did you wake up in the middle of the night and, uh, from having a nightmare of sailor saying there is no second bus?

3:35 Like, or There is no second best. Yeah, I mean, it was, um, it was quite an experience. So first of all, I was quite overwhelmed, as you can imagine, trying to, you know, make sure that everything is, you know, Organized nicely. So, you know, when I saw the bus in front of the stadium, I kind of just went and say hello to everybody and wanted to greet everybody. And I did a massive, massive faux pas. I didn't say hello to the driver. Uh, I didn't basically, you know, have, build the interaction with him. So I just said, hello, hello, everything. Okay. Okay. We didn't have, you know, any sort of small chat, small, small talk. And, um, and yeah, and basically, you know, we, we started going to the place, uh, he took us to the wrong place.

4:22 Then we had to kind of, you know, call, call the company. and the guy was a bit funny, like he refused to speak in English with me. Uh, like pretend he does not, doesn't speak English. Uh, then somebody who actually spoke Portuguese stepped in and, uh, it turned out that the guy actually speaks fluent English, probably better than mine. and we, you know, we, we expressed what we had to say, and he said, like, you know, you don't tell us where we go, you don't tell us, and I was like, well, I called the company yesterday, and they confirmed that you know the details, and you know everything. Um, so, you know, in the end they took us, he took us to the right, right place. Uh, I bought him a coffee and, you know, uh, we had a chat and, and we made, we made friends, so to speak, uh, from, from the position we first met.

5:04 So, but it was, you know, an, an experience as well. is he orange pill now then? I don't think so. Um, I, I think, uh, I think, you know, we had definitely planted some seeds because literally when we were on the bus, Bitcoin hit all time high and, you know, there was like getting, getting, getting to the, to the newest heights and so we celebrated like, okay guys, Bitcoin is now 40, like 64 or 65. and, uh, yeah, it was really a fun ride and something special about it as well. Um, but, uh, yeah, you know, we, we had, uh, we had a, a, a chat with all the Bitcoiners and him in the end and, uh, He told us basically his life story, that he worked for like 10 years in the UK, was a bus driver here.

5:48 Then he came over to Madeira, where he's from, and basically shared his story. We tried to orange pill him, but he wasn't interested in getting sats, so I think he'll come around, he'll come around at some point, I'm sure. I Yeah. I've, I've taken bus rides on Madeira before and they can be scary. They can be pretty, yeah, it's a, you know, everyday edge or whatever you may call it. So, yeah, uh, we're, we're. Getting ahead of ourselves here, uh, can you give our listeners a TLDR on who you are, Jakob, and how this whole Bitcoin walk became such a big part of your life, and, uh, yeah, I mean, I love walking with Bitcoiners myself, so, so, yeah, please tell us the story.

6:35 So yeah, I'm Jacob, you know, I'm humble plebs. I just, you know, I just go for a walk and talk about Bitcoin with anybody who wants to come along. And it started like two years ago. I'm based in Edinburgh in Scotland right now. I started going out because, uh, like I, uh, me and my partner, we had our second child here. And, uh, I wanted to find some time for myself when we were like, a little one was like three months old. Um, so we said like, okay, you know, I'm going to go for a walk just, you know, a couple of hours and then I'm back. and, uh, I would listen to podcasts. I would listen to audiobooks, uh, and go, you know, getting deeper, deeper down the rabbit hole. and, uh, at some point I got so overwhelmed and said like, look, you know, I don't have much time to, to commit.

7:21 Myself to more than, than, than the two couple of hours a week, but, um, I'm so overwhelmed that I really want to, you know, to talk to someone. I want to make sure that I'm not insane because it sounds like, you know, this, this thing is going to, to change the whole world and, uh, and, uh, fix a lot of things in the world. Um, so I put up, you know, a meetup page, uh, and people started coming. Um, first it was, like, you know, a couple of guys, uh, one guy, two guys, you know, and I would always go, always have a conversation, see, like, what they think and, like, how they feel. You know, discuss anything that I heard, uh, and I noticed that there's a certain pattern and those Bitcoin walks and the way you, um, well, the way I started, you know, understanding it and talking about that works a little bit like, you know, like going to the gym where, you know, first you, you go to the gym and it's, it's not really comfortable.

8:11 It's not your thing. Like you're, you feel awkward maybe. Um, and, you know, The more you build up that muscle of kind of, you know, repetition, going through this whole thing, uh, over and over again and meeting those people and, um, you know, I was always sticking to three things, right? So, um, if I didn't know what to talk about, I was just saying, so, you know, self custody, that's an invention, right? And like, starting discussing things from that point on, or, or like finance scarcity, or the third thing was privacy. And, you know, these are the three most, most kind of. Anchoring topics that would take us to very different places. and in the, you know, in the process, I noticed that, um, it is much easier to talk to people when you're walking, when you're next to someone, because then there is, you're not stationary.

8:58 So, you know, you're, you're moving, you've got better blood circulation, you've got fresh air, and also there is no judgment. So like, you know, If we sit in the bar and we're having a conversation, it's usually me telling you, you telling me kind of conversation. So there's always this kind of power struggle where, you know, I'm trying to find it out, you know, figure out like, what, what is your angle? Like what are you trying to tell me or sell me, sell to me? Uh, whereas when, when we were walking, it's, um, you just focus on the road ahead, you focus on your horizon. On your next step, and you're completely different, like you, you're way more open minded in this, in this setup. So it becomes easier to, um, to have a meaningful conversation.

9:39 And actually, the way I learned most is by not talking at all, it's just by listening other people talk. people were prompting questions and you would just be there and kind of analyze in your own pace what this thing is. And, you know, I've been in many conversations where, um, like they were way too advanced for me or too technical for me. So I would have to catch up later on and do my lessons, but they kind of put, you know, the basics in my understanding of Bitcoin and how it works. So that I can then do my, do my homework and then come back again and maybe ask some more questions, you know, so it's a really nice cycle to it to, to get on boarded because. You know, Bitcoin is, it's a beast as there's so many layers to it, um, and it means something different potentially to everybody.

10:26 So to find my, uh, meaning, I had to kind of go through it over and over again, discover it, um, in my own ways and, and, you know, share my experiences as well. So, I found that extremely useful in me being, getting more confident about what I'm doing, how I'm allocating my time and my energy. and, uh, yeah, and I make lots of friends, like, like, um, you know, I've been living in the UK for 15 years. Um, more than that now, I'm originally from Poland and we, you know, we tend to socialize and, uh, and visit each other a lot in Poland. So, you know, it's normal to, to come to, to, to my house or to your house. Cause that's what people do. Um, we have guests in UK, you go to a pub, you don't have, you don't, you don't come to each other's houses at all.

11:12 and, uh, I noticed that, you know, whenever I tried to go and go into any meetups in UK, um, you know, I'm, I'm considering myself a cheerful guy and being open minded, but those meetups, like usual meetups, they were usually, there was something wrong with them. Like I couldn't, I couldn't force myself to, You know, to, to, um, to connect with those people and, uh, to follow up and to build lasting relationships with anyone they met until Bitcoin, uh, and, and Bitcoin works specifically. Uh, cause at this point, you know, I started making really, really great friendships. I think I found, you know, a couple of people I can call my mentors as well, um, who basically, you know, it's like explained a lot of things to me, uh, both from technical, um, as well as spiritual, uh, way.

12:05 So, um, I find, you know, I think that there's some special thing about this. Going for a walk and having a, you know, a casual talk away from the screen, away from, you know, from, um, from a pub, from, from, you know, sitting and drinking beer. It's, it's just different. Absolutely, so, uh, natural follow up question, what does Bitcoin mean to you, Jakob? Well, you know, it means hope to me. It absolutely means hope. You know, I, I live right now in, uh, in, uh, soggy Scotland. Uh, it's, uh, it's raining quite a lot here. And, you know, when it gets cold, uh, the winter is, you know, it's not extreme cold as, you know, we would have it in Poland or in Scandinavia, but it's just miserable for a long time.

12:48 And, uh, I, you know, I, I met a couple of guys and I expressed who, who, who felt the same as I did. I just get naturally depressed here, you know, because of lack of sound, because of lack of, um, vitamin D and stuff. So, I noticed that, you know, in the last couple of, well, last couple of weeks, we went for the Bitcoin walk on the day of the halving. And, uh, we kind of wrapped it up to say, wait, okay, so how was it? And a friend of mine who's like a long time Bitcoin, he said like, do you know what, this one was actually, this, this cycle was much easier. The bear market was much easier because of Bitcoin walk, because we could actually not have each other as a support network to, you know, to come and have our group therapy kind of thing.

13:31 Uh, and I, and I, you know, I, this has resonated very, very highly with me. So I, I think that's, Uh, to me, this is, um, well, Bitcoin will help me find my, my, my family, uh, help me find, you know, people that, I have a common denominator, uh, with, you know, the 21 million. Uh, so, uh, so in this sense, uh, it's, it's, um, it's life changing for sure. I feel that, you know, some values that I had deeply kind of rooted in my, uh, upbringing, um, as a child, which I thought I disconnected from, and maybe I lost at some point in my life. You know, pursuing career, chasing the fiat money that is kind of, you know, basically never ending game.

14:13 And I felt myself, you know, at peace because I know that I'm part of the game that is, you know, has a fixed supply and I have my little, tiny little share in it. Nobody's nobody can take it away from me. So that to me, this is, this is like, it gives me so much peace of mind and so much, um, uh, calm, uh, calmness and, you know, um, positive, um, attitude and hope for the future that, you know, I, I, I stick to that. And so I kind of cherish this feeling and try to spread it around. Fantastic. It sounds a bit like one of those alcoholics anonymous groups, like I'm Jacob and I'm a bitcoholic.

14:56 Like, Yeah, it does. It does. And, you know, it's, um, It's interesting because I went to a meetup yesterday, in, uh, in the University of Edinburgh, uh, that was related to, Ayn Rand's, um, organization and, uh, you know, basically they were discussing how the government is, uh, You know, creating money, how it's stealing from, it's, you know, from, from the people for inflation and then other stuff. And, um, and I felt like, okay, well, that's, you know, like, these guys should really dig Bitcoin and they should, should get that. So I started interacting with those people and they were like, oh, no, but cryptocurrency, this is speculation. And I'm like, well, first of all, you need to learn your lesson.

15:38 Differentiate between Bitcoin and crypto, and maybe, you know, it's better to actually experience that, to try doing that and learn some more rather than just doing, you know, a witchery and, and, you know, Uh, and burning witches on, you know, uh, when, when you don't, when you're not sure what you're dealing with. So, yeah, in this sense, you know, I think that, uh, maybe, I took things for granted going out there as in, this is natural. Like this conversation is definitely going into Bitcoin. To me, that was natural. For them, it wasn't. Um, but at least I think I maybe put some, you know, seeds in their brains as well. So maybe they can research that. Fantastic. Well, so, uh, I think, I think, uh, this, this concept is, is really interesting and it's, it's always nice to see community development here with, within the, the Bitcoin ecosystem.

16:28 And so, uh, can you maybe go into a little more detail about sort of the organization of all of this? Like what, what exactly is the Bitcoin walk? Organization and what you're working on specifically with that. And what is sort of more of a community development type of thing? Like, how can, how can others get involved? Of course. So the easiest way to get involved, you know, this is, this is really simple. Um, you just create your Bitcoin world chapter, wherever you are, we've now got over 15 cities around the world where people meet up, you know, every sat, every sat, every Saturday. and they go for a walk, and you know, it's, it's a free format and I always encourage people to basically be open minded and start with those three things, you know, discuss the impact of self custody, uh, finance scarcity and privacy and how this, uh, how this is important.

17:21 And believe me, like people who understands roughly those three things. They can wander to many, many different, um, uh, paths in, in, in their discussions. Uh, and, uh, yeah, you know, the, the easiest way is to either, you know, to go to bitcoinwalk. org website. Um, see if there's any, uh, probably there won't be any, any chapter in your city. I mean, there are, there are, there's like 15 or 16 chapters right now. Um, but there's also a link to set up a new chapter. So, you know, what, what, what this will do is it will take you to a very short, like, small form where, you know, I would get the location of your walk, maybe some information, um, and your, your telegram username, and I would set up a page and a telegram group for yourself.

18:03 Um, so you can actually announce it and, uh, be the one who starts the walk. And, um, you know, people struggle with the idea that it's like, who's going to come? Maybe I don't know how to manage that. It's, it's really simple. Like, if you, if you just trust your, your, your instincts, as you did with getting into Bitcoin, and you take for granted that the other person will also share this common denominator with you. You will already have things to talk about and you'll have a great time and, uh, potentially, you know, meet someone that will change your life as well. Bitcoin is a walkie talkie. And I know for a fact that there are Bitcoin walks happening in more than 15 cities every Saturday though, because Bitcoin Not all Bitcoiners, believe it or not, but not all Bitcoiners are, are, uh, have, you know, filling out online forms as their favorite hobby.

18:56 So, so these things are happening, uh, yeah, off band also. And I think like, um, in Germany, the German community is fantastic with the Einundzwanzig thing that has like spread to every major, uh, city in the country at this point. And there are a lot of Bitcoin walks happening over there, uh, I know for a fact, yeah, pleb walks. Yeah. So, so, so how connected are you to the pleb walk community in, uh, in Germany? Like, is this an international thing? Yeah, we've got, uh, you know, three or four, uh, chapters in Germany. Uh, I think the Cologne one is, the one in Cologne is the biggest one. Um, there's one, there's a big one that are happening, uh, not every Saturday, I think that's once a month in Berlin.

19:42 Uh, they go to Grunwald and they walk over there, beautiful place. Um, so, you know, and again, you know, I'm not, like, the idea is to kind of help people maybe organize that. I don't necessarily consider this, you know, to be the only right way to do that. Uh, just find your way and I'm here to kind of help you maybe with, uh, Getting the word out and, uh, and yeah, do a little bit of marketing, whatever you want to call that, to encourage people and to get the word out, um, to, to be aware and to find your Bitcoin walk. Yeah, are you familiar with the orange pill app? Of course. Yeah, Yeah, um, because I, I think that's probably a good place to, to, um to do events like this and Bitcoin walks and whatnot, because, um, it's all about finding other Bitcoiners in real life.

20:25 Right. And I think regardless if we are using that or using anything else, like, uh, the, uh, the real world connections are, are so much more important than we think. Because like, um, whenever I've experienced, uh, a time or a place or both where, where there is, uh, uh, a Bitcoin community in one single location at the same time, then all the problems just vanish. They just go away. And, and you can just talk about whatever you want. You can find that little percentage of stuff you disagree about. And that's where the interesting conversation happens instead of just, uh, automatically thinking that the other guy is a bad guy because he disagrees on this or that and, uh, and, and Bitcoin itself just removes all the barriers and removes all the financial problems that one or more of the participants in this group may or may not have, but it's just better, better living through cryptography.

21:28 absolutely. And, and, you know, you're, you're, you're right in saying that, you know, the, the, the meat space, you know, uh, meeting in real life is, um, is very different. And I think it's going to have a big comeback with, you know, with, um, all the information, all the noise coming from, you know, social media. Uh, all the mainstream propaganda and, you know, now we're getting into like AI fake news, uh, so, you know, we're going to see, uh, influencers or politicians saying crazy stuff and you will never know, like, is that for real? Like, is this true? Or is this being manipulated because things are getting so abstract. then it's really, yeah, it's really, um, becoming weird.

22:09 So getting this validation from your peers is going to be very, very meaningful. You know, one thing that kind of comes back to me about this, this, this, Truman show we're living in is that, you know, the fact that, um, you know, on, on, on, in, uh, in the newspaper, the Times from the 3rd of January, 2009, you've got, you know, the, the, the headline, um, that Satoshi put in the Genesis blog, and also you have the main picture, uh, with saying that, you know, Israel prepares, like IDF prepares to enter Gaza. And to me, this is like, okay, we're 15 years later and this headline could, both of those headlines, right? Chancellor on the brink of second bailout, third or fourth or whatever the number is.

22:50 And the, you know, the, the, the analogy to, to the situation, uh, in, in the Middle East, um, they, they still stand. So I can't. Comprehend like how did how this is just surreal. It's getting absurd. Yeah, it's like time stopped and the time chain sort of took over. Indeed. Indeed.

26:28 So maybe you can tell us a little bit about kind of how you're seeing the Bitcoin ecosystem right now, like the state of the world we're just, we're just post having here. What are you hoping to see come out of the near future with Bitcoin? Well, you know, this year is, uh, is interesting because we have, uh, I can't remember, but a lot of elections happening in different countries. Um, and I think is going to be like, it's going to be a weird year in the sense that people don't want to make, you know, um, too radical or crazy things. as they campaign for the elections.

27:09 Um, you know, you can already see like every single candidate for US president's seat is already, you know, has Bitcoin on their political agenda one way or another. Um, of course, you know, these are politicians, so they will never, you know, follow through everything they say. But, uh, it's, it's getting interesting and I think, um, you know, uh, the, until probably around, you know, next half a year, I don't see much changing and then probably, you know, there's going to be some, some bigger movements and things will start escalating, you know, um, from sort of institutional adoption, we've got the ETFs, of course, and they're, you know, getting into Bitcoin like crazy, uh, we've got now the ETFs in, uh, in Hong Kong, so effectively Probably just say China.

27:54 Um, we've got, um, I think South Korea coming to, uh, into the game as well. The ETF game, I think Australia announced something. So, you know, uh, those big institutions, they will, they will start, you know, uh, putting Bitcoin on their balance sheet. And the supply is, you know, it's just shrinking with, you know, the current epoch, um, so there's going to be a lot of demands and, uh, and I think, unfortunately for, for plebs, for people, um, it will only become, this is my opinion, maybe you disagree, but I think, um, but I think the, uh, the adoption of Bitcoin can happen through pain. So if there is no pain, like, you know, in, in, in the UK, which is completely, completely ignorant of how massively, you know, this technology and this, this thing will change humanity, they don't have, like, people in UK don't have the need to adopt Bitcoin.

28:51 They, you know, they rely on Pound Sterling. They don't feel like change is needed. So, uh, I think, you know, unless you get into the situation like, you know, Turkey or Argentina or Venezuela and you actually see that by, you know, uh, your, your hyperinflation or just very high inflation, your, your savings and your money is being diluted. Then you get, you start looking for escape. Unless you experience that, people are complacent and just living, you know, a happy life. Shakuna Well, don't you think that wherever there's inflation, there is pain or there will be pain at some point? Absolutely. And, and that inflation, like the way I see it, the, the, the istic curve meme is real.

29:36 Like the, uh, the inflation is not getting any better anytime soon. The the like, uh, normal inflation is just hyperinflation in slowmo. So, so, so there will be pain, like different people will, different, will experience it differently and at different times and to different magnitudes, but it's still pain, it's somewhere. And, and it does create bitcoiners, I believe. It does, yeah. And I just wish that, you know, people were smarter before they get hurt, before they, you know, they get into pain. Um, I got really good friends, uh, who are, like, super, you know, super smart, well educated, have PhDs and stuff, and, uh, I'm trying to orange pill them and, you know, tell them about Bitcoin, and they're just fed up with it, they don't want to listen to me anymore, like, don't, just stop talking about Bitcoin, let's just talk about your music or something else, um, so they're just, And, and this friend of mine, um, he's telling me that basically, um, there are two kinds of people, people who, who, um, who are into Bitcoin and who are not.

30:40 And I say, I, I don't agree with that. I think that there are people who, you know, who, who are, who understand how Bitcoin changes the world, and people who are sailors as intellectually lazy to do their homework and to, you know, um, to, to understand the potential it brings together. You said something there, uh, like, your music? You make music? no, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a vivid listener, Oh, okay. That's another, another, another thing. Um, like, um, I recently got, uh, got an invite, um, to, to come to BTC Prague. And, uh, and, uh, unfortunately I, I mean, I already booked this weekend for download festival. So we'll be going to Donington and, uh, I'm taking my friend for, for, for his birthday.

31:25 So, um, yeah. And I will miss Prague, but, um, yeah, we'll, we'll have a good time anyway. Donington, there's a lot of metal there, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're, uh, we're metalheads over here as well. So yeah, yeah, I saw it. Uh, look, I think you're, you're a Meshuggah fan, right? yeah, I am a big Meshuggah fan. Uh, yeah. Are they coming to Donington? Uh, I don't think they are now, but I mean, this year is, the lineup is a bit weird. Um, I, um, I mean, there's going to be Offspring, for example, which I, you know, I'd love to see them, but that's, that's my teenage years.

32:05 Uh, so not metal so much, but, um, yeah, that would be, that'd be some cool band. Well, there'll be Pantera as well, you know, uh, coming, making comebacks. So, Oh, yeah. Yeah. We saw that me and Luke went to that. It's like the first concert. It's the only concert we've ever been to Luke, right? Oh, we've been to the Satoshi Rakamoto things, I guess. But in Prague last year, we went to see Pantera after the conference. It's fucking amazing. Uh, even though it's just half of Pantera, but with two very competent other musicians doing their thing. And yeah, it was great. yeah, I always love to look into it. The, uh, Yeah, you said the world exists, the world is made up of two types of people, the ones who can extrapolate from incomplete data sets.

33:00 That was the joke. Got it, got it. All right. Well, you're going to have a bit of editing to do here, Luke. Yeah. we'll have to leave that pause in a little bit. Otherwise, it doesn't land. And the ones who don't. Yeah, No, great stuff. Great stuff. So, uh, yeah, you've given us a little bit of, um, uh, I guess, perspective on the, the situation in the UK. How much, uh, how much are you, uh, also involved in, in, uh, Uh, the community in, in Poland, like, like I've, I've, I've moved from Canada to Finland. I've got sort of feet in both, both countries and keep an eye, uh, on, on both and everywhere at the same time.

33:43 So yeah, how much are you involved with, uh, with the community in Poland? to be fair, I only met, uh, the guys from Den from, you know, from the 21, uh, community, uh, in Madera. Um, I, I haven't been, you know, I haven't lived, been living in Poland for a while, so I, I'm not, I'm not there too often. Um, but we had, we had a great connection. I, I didn't really realize that, you know, that they were there, there were so many Bitcoiners there. Uh, I had a massive like, uh, surprise moment when I found out that peer Pier Cober is actually, you know, hiss. Polish technically, or speaks Polish better than me probably, so I always talk to him in English, and then it says like, okay, actually, I just witnessed him speaking Polish, so why do I talk to you in English if you're speaking Polish fluently?

34:28 So yeah, we had a good chat, and unfortunately I missed the European halving party in Warsaw, I couldn't make it. Family reasons, but, um, yeah, you know, I have a lot of, a lot of sympathy for, uh, for everybody, you know, who's, who's into Bitcoin in Poland, because again, you know, the, the consciousness and the open mindedness in general public in Poland, that's going to be very tough to overcome, like people live in, you know, in, in, in, in the past pretty much, and, um, I'm super, super happy to see that there are so many prominent and bright guys, uh, and girls in Bitcoin already. Yeah. I went to the halving party in Warsaw and it was great.

35:10 And, uh, like I got the feeling like that, uh, Warsaw, and, and, and Poland, uh, like you guys, like Eastern Europe in general, uh, Eastern Europe is sort of a weird term, but all you poor countries that were invaded by the, uh, by the evil empire, uh, like, you know, where the end of the obedience road, you, you know, what doing what the government tells you lead to, or at least your parent does, parents do. So, so, uh, so that's the thing. I think, uh, people in Eastern Europe are more, Like they get Bitcoin earlier because they know the dangers.

35:56 Uh, I, I, I really feel this discrepancy like, and this, uh, difference between East and the East and the West in Europe. Like, uh, I think what you're, what you're referring here is basically complacency, right? Like people are not so complacent, people would push back and try to find a way, um, yeah to, to, not to play on the accord of the government. Yeah. And see obedience thing. you know, if you're into history and you, you look into the how, like, you know, the, the end of, and, you know, the collapse of Soviet Union and, um, the role that, that, that. Two particular people played in it. I'm referring to Lech Wałęsa, you know, the first president of the Free Poland and the guy from the from the unions of the shipyard from Gdańsk, and the Pope, John Paul II.

36:44 Um, you know, remember this. This is my childhood. so, so, um, so that was kind of, you know, great. And, uh, there was a lot of, um, you know, the solidarity and the spirit of solidarity. That's, uh, it has done a lot of good things, you know, for, for Poland. So the church played their role in the history of Poland. Today, not so much. Um, you know, they, like, I'm, I'm, I'm not, uh, very much, you know, a supporter of the church. I think they should basically be more servants, uh, to, to, you know, to people who are in need. Whereas in Poland, that's not how it works today, but what's interesting is that, you know, back in the days, back in the 70s and 80s, when, where, you know, Poland was under a communist regime, you had, um, you know, all the mainstream, well, the only media there was, so newspapers and, and, uh, And public TV, um, basically pumping propaganda for their, you know, for their tubes.

37:46 And there was like, you couldn't listen to that. It was just disgusting. Uh, so basically, um, USSR was the good guys and the West was the filthy, you know, spoiled capitalists. That's, that's all we had to kind of pumped in. You know, all the time. And what was interesting is that actually the church, the catholic church, which was quite active in this time, they had their ritual on Sunday mass, so people would go to the church, and this would be the platform for people to find out the truth, to learn a little more about, you know, the geopolitical situation, like what is going on, like what's What are the risks? And Preece at that time played a significant role in fighting against the government.

38:29 And I noticed that, you know, this kind of in real life meetup and the, you know, platform with the community that's united around one thing is somewhat similar to what we do with BitcoinWalk, where we, you know, we meet every Saturday, we discuss things. I hope that we'll never come to the point where, you know, there'll be a big crackdown. On such a big crackdown on Bitcoin that, you know, we would need to, um, you know, go in, in, in real life and try to, you know, whisper and, you know, discuss what, what's, what's, what's going to happen. So, how is that in Poland? Like, is the separation of church and state? Like, are the church and state separated, I guess?

39:09 And have they been for how long? And like So, it's, it's a very tricky thing because the church in Poland is still financed by the state, and they've got, you know, the concordat law. I'm not sure if this is the translation, but basically they're still being subsidized by the state. Thanks for watching! Uh, they are always very, um, very, uh, active during, you know, any sort of elections, so it's become very corrupt in this sense, so that's why I don't support them. Polish church at all. Um, you've, you've got, you know, you've got priests and archbishops who are, uh, millionaires.

39:50 Uh, it's just crazy. Uh, they, they don't help the poor. They, they, they're, they're literally benefiting from the can continu effect. Uh, there's one guy, uh, he's like, uh, the biggest fucking douchebag in the world. Uh, he's got, you know, uh, a big, uh. Uh, Empire built on the subsidies coming from, uh, from the government, you know, from like every single ministry, he can take some money, he will take it. And, uh, uh, there was a, you know, there was, there was some, some time when, um, he, um, he got given, uh, two, like, uh, limousines, like two cars were very expensive cars. And, uh, in, in a statement publicly, he said that. He got them from a homeless guy who gave it to them and died.

40:34 This is the level of absurd that is going on over there. So you just, you know, it's just beyond any sort of decency that a man should have. You know, I Yeah, yeah. So, is the state just another organized religion? Or what's your opinion? think, you know, it's, um, it's different in different, um, different countries. Um, when you're, you know, when you're in Poland, uh, and you live between, you know, Germany and The eastern bloc, let's call it this way, your perspective is somewhat different. Like you, you know, we've gone through history many, many times where Poland was attacked from left and right, you know, and then center as well.

41:18 so, in this sense, you know, I think, um, the state should, you know, should provide, like, minimal, amount of services where they actually secure the, you know, the basic needs of society. Um, but they shouldn't. They should be public servants. So, you know, this is a good thing that Bitcoin does. It defunds the state, like money that's being put out and, you know, saved in Bitcoin and spent in Bitcoin as well, you know, in the Bitcoin market. This money is not going to fund, you know, wars. It's not going to fund any church, for example. I don't want to be paying for the church, you know, for my taxes or whatever. I'm opting out. Um, and, uh, in, in many, I think, you know, I saw a tweet somewhere.

42:00 Basically, Bitcoin kind of brings it back, uh, makes, you know, uh, public servant, public servant, makes them public servants. So they, they're, they're again, supposed to be serving the public in a way that's, uh, not benefit, not benefiting from the public, but just improving it. Right? Yeah, yeah, I feel the same, if not, like, um, I'm unsure whether that is even possible, though, like, uh, even on a Bitcoin standard, that the state will be completely, like, funded by voluntary payment, or like, uh, That they won't I struggle seeing a state of the world in which states are more good than bad, because I think that they're a net bad at the moment, and I can sort of logically reason myself to that position, like the more consensual people.

42:56 Interactions there are between people and the fewer forceful ones, the flip side of that, like the better. So, so I never see like a state of the world where you wouldn't want to fight for a smaller state. It can always, I, I, Maybe it will always exist in some way, shape, or form, but you could always fight to make it smaller, like, uh, there's, there's no, it can always shrink. And you're right, you know, I think, um, with the transformation that needs to happen from where we are today, you know, the fiat system and the legacy governments, whatever you want to call them, to a Bitcoin standard and the future this can bring, I don't necessarily think that, you know, it's going to be a very smooth transition.

43:44 I think that you basically need to cut that off and start living again on this new standard. Um, and basically, you know, you, you, the new stu, the old standard doesn't recognize the new one and the, the newest standard is kinda laughing at, you know, the, the old standard because it's just not efficient at all. Um, and, and if you're in the Bitcoin space and you've done your lesson and you, you've watched this space for, for a while, then you, you, you, you're, you know, that you, you, you're aware that, uh, the quality of everything. Um, education, healthcare, uh, services, um, is completely of, you know, different on, on both, right? it's so much better on a Bitcoin standard, like, if you just choose to live in that world, then you see it, and it's, it's absolutely clear, and the old world is obsolete already.

44:34 Like, you can choose to live in the future now, and it's wonderful if, uh, all the problems are with the old world. So that's the thing, I totally agree.

46:23 Awesome. Well, hey, so Jacob, uh, is there any, anything else coming up in the near future that you'd like to, uh, direct our listeners to? What are your plans in the near future? Uh, near future? Um, well, personally, I've, I'm, I'm doing a big jump. Um, you know, I'm, I've been brought up in a, in a sort of, A rather conservative Polish family living in a small town, going to school, going to high school, going to uni, kind of, you know, plowing through. I didn't, it didn't even take, you know, a year gap when I was at Warsaw School of Economics. So I kind of, you know, ticked off the boxes, then got out of the education system and I was like, yes, you know, I've done it.

47:04 I don't have to learn or study those things that were, you know, Not necessarily fun for me, uh, and I can now go to work and, uh, You know, build my career, whatever. So, uh, brought up, being brought up in this mindset, uh, made me realize that, okay, you know, I'm, I'm now a father of two boys. And, um, we moved to Edinburgh 'cause we said like, okay, it's a nice, peaceful city. We live in a, you know, in the catchment where that has the best school in Edinburgh. And, uh, we said, okay, I'm gonna let my kids go to school. They're gonna get the, you know, best education I can provide them with. Um, that was my, my belief.

47:45 System until I went to Madeira and until I bumped into a bunch of homeschooling kids or unschooling, uh, you know, parents, um, and until I saw the, you know, there were three stages, the main stage development stage and the kids stage. And when I saw that they're, you know, like, you get to realize that Bitcoin is 15 years old and you got, you know, 12 year olds, 13 year old, 14 year old presenting on the stage, building together, networking, you know, and being so confident in doing so, you just realize that these kids are going to be so much ahead of their peers, you know, compared to what's going to, what the future is going to look like in 10 years from now or 15 years from now when they'll be, you know, entering the, the, the, the labor market or job market.

48:25 That's it. then you, you kinda, that triggered something inside of me, you know, I was talking to Daniel Prince, I was talking to other, other guys, um, I was talking to, um, to Rob and Sylvia from A Place to Be, uh, and, um, it was like no rocket science to me, because I work remotely anyway. Um, I, I made my decisions and I decided to take, you know, responsibility for, for my kids as well. And, uh, along with my family, we'll be moving to Madeira. So, uh, we'll be moving to Madeira to live with, uh, you know, close by to, to, to these guys. And hopefully, you know, uh, get to hang around together, um, let our kids be together and, and educate them together as parents. So, that's, that's the next big thing, um, that's, is in my life.

49:10 But I also think that, you know, Um, it was un, unthinkable for me to even, you know, think about those things, uh, taking the kids out of the education system until I embraced and I saw that with my eyes. And I think I, it's very similar to people to, to making the jump from the fiat system to the Bitcoin system where you're, you know, so deeply embedded in that and everybody around you is so deeply embedded in that, that, you know, it feels like you're being crazy doing that. now I feel even more confident this is the right way, because with the development and technology, like, you know, two years, three years ago, we didn't have any sort of, uh, inklings of what AI will be doing, changing, like how it will be changing our lives today, right?

49:56 And today, we're taking it for granted. Everybody's using AI almost on, you know, if you're working with a computer, chances are that you're using some chat GPT or mid journey or something like that on a daily basis. So 10 years from now, 15 years from now, I don't think this is going to slow down. This is going to grow exponentially and the education system that we have in traditional schooling, uh, is not going to keep up. It's already outdated. Um, so I, I really don't think that this will make, you know, a even linear progress. Jacob, this is so fantastic to hear. I mean, uh, and, and to be, to be a part of this and like all these aspects, this, these different aspects of Bitcoin and just hearing your story and, and, uh, you name dropping all of our friends here and, and the, the things they're doing on Madeira, just fantastic.

50:44 I mean, And I completely agree the, the education system as is, is, is completely outdated. It's obsolete already, just like everything else. And we have no idea what we're preparing our kids for, what kind of reality they're going to live in, uh, 10 years from now. It's impossible. No, no. So, so like, we shouldn't teach them stuff that they can look up on the internet. We should teach them. If anything, like a sound mindset and how to take care of their mental health and how to, how to, how to grow and how to, how to be positive, stay positive and hopeful and stuff like this, how, how their focus and attention and enjoyment of life actually creates that enjoyable reality that they want.

51:37 Uh, so, so yeah, there's so much there and, uh, yeah, uh, I'm, um, Looking forward to following up this with you in the future and see where this goes and follow up with Rob and Sylvia and their amazing project down there and Daniel and all that he does for the homeschooling community and as you say like you were seen as a complete nutcase if you even suggested like you. When I grew up, or even later than that, like if you rewind the clock ten years, only like crazy, uh, religious people were homeschooling. Like, that, that, that's the only option, like I need to homeschool because I have these ridiculous beliefs and I have to pump them into my kid.

52:22 Like, that's the only reason you would homeschool. And now it's the other way around. Now it's the, the public system that are pumping insane ideas into the kids, and you homeschool to take them out of it. Like, it's, um No, it's fantastic. So, uh, good luck with everything. Thank you. Happy to follow up when we, I think we're going to meet in, uh, in Bulgaria, right? Uh, I'm, I'm sorry to say, but I'm not going to Bulgaria. I had to skip that one this year because my schedule is. Insane. So, but I will go to Prague. Are you coming to Prague? No, I'm taking my friend to Donington Festival. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we'll be there in spirit.

53:03 There's another conference, uh, I think. Um, well, I'm not sure about Riga because this will be in August when I'll be moving. You should come to Riga. Like, like, you can, you can always move later. Or earlier. I Okay. Riga. All right, cool. I'll work around that. And then, and then I got, uh, I got invited to come to a small conference in Hungary, uh, later in, in, uh, October. So, uh, Oh yeah, uh, am I invited to that one? I have to check my calendar. It just happened yesterday see. was very, very spontaneous, so uh, maybe you need to wait, I mean, I probably, you probably will, yeah.

53:46 Well, we'll see each other, uh, eventually, I'm, I'm sure, if not, uh, not in this year's cycle, next year's, or the year's after, or et cetera, et cetera. Lots of opportunities, and, uh, one of these things in Bitcoin, um, you end up going to more conferences as time goes on for some reason. They're, they're addictive, uh, to a certain extent. Just like BitcoinWalk, you know, to me, uh, this is a weekly ritual that, you know, you kind of build up this muscle and you're looking for, you know, your, your, your clock is kind of, you know, ticking the blocks, uh, towards the next, the next Saturday. You know, it's every Saturday or every thousand blocks, uh, because that's kind of how it works. So, you know, in this way, in this sense, you know, stars align and, uh, we've got, we've got a really cool, cool community here in Edinburgh.

54:32 We're going to miss them, but I'm sure, you know, we'll build equally cool community elsewhere in Maduro. it's every 1, 008 blocks, right? and we work for about two hours, so I'm kind of, you know, Nudging it a little bit, but you're right. Yes. All right. Fantastic. So, so people don't forget to brush your damn teeth and, and, uh, go to bitcoinwalk. org, either if you like walking or if you like filling in registration forms, it's a great page. And, uh, you, you make your own little chapter, um, just go walking and walking and talking about Bitcoin. I think what's, you know, what's, what's important is you get to, you get to experience that firsthand, you get other people's perspectives, uh, and there's tons of things you're going to learn.

55:19 Um, you know, it's such a, also such a humbling experience. Like, I always, uh, recall one, one Bitcoin walk when, uh, I met a guy named Wabi. He was from Afghanistan. He was like a political refugee here. Um, and, um, he came, he's probably the age of my dad, and I could tell that he wasn't very, IT literate, so to speak. But, uh, um, he came to, to, um, to Bitcoin World because he heard that, you know, it's possible to send value. to Afghanistan from UK with Bitcoin. Try doing that with Barclays or, you know, with HSBC or any of those banks, you know, it's almost impossible or, and if you can't do it, you're going to pay hefty fee to make that happen.

56:04 So, uh, those was one, you know, one of those kind of touching stories that I recall. And, uh, even though I am pretty sure he didn't, you know, he didn't send Bitcoin to his family, you know, when he came back from the Bitcoin walk. Uh, one thing he took away from that is, you know, he, he was kind of questioning, like, what can I do here to make money? Um, because he was only in UK for like two or three weeks, uh, you know, uh, since his arrival. Uh, and, uh, I asked him, can you drive a car? He's like, yeah, I can drive a car. Well, you can be, you know, Uber driver or, you know, uh, deliver some stuff. And he was so grateful for that, that, you know, I, I feel like this is, that's, that's great. You know, I love the fact that I could point him in this direction and maybe he, he took that, uh, and that could change his life.

56:47 Fantastic. Yeah, stories like that are great, and, uh, connections you, you make in real life are, uh, Always what you make of them, right? Uh, they, they can turn into anything. So it's a great initiative. Uh, you've started Jacob and, uh, yeah. Great to, great to see. And so, uh, yeah, as, as Knut said, go to bitcoin walk.org. Is there anywhere else you'd like to direct our listeners too? sell your wheelchairs, go on a walk. Yeah. It might be a bit, uh, ableist Cano. Yeah, okay, okay, Too much. We'll cut it out. Yeah. No. Cano making a fool of himself stays in sometimes.

57:27 Damn it, that's your job, Luke, cutting these things out. You do it too often for me to cut every single occurrence. Ha! Too much editing. Now, you know, I think, um, with, with, uh, with BitcoinWalk, you know, the forum is kind of free fall and, um, it's good to go out, you know, to, to touch grass, to basically talk to other people, um, because, you know, we are social animals and, uh, we're spending so much time in front of our computers today, um, we don't really get to know other people. Uh, outside of our circle, uh, that much. I mean, that, that's pretty much, I mean, conferences are great because this is where it happens. This is why we have so much energy when we go to those things. But BitcoinWalk could be your kinda, you know, your local weekly conference, if you like.

58:11 You can, you know, meet those people pretty much, uh, Uh, every Saturday, if you want, or more irregularly, if you prefer, uh, you know, um, and, and, uh, I think that, you know, Bitcoin walk is, uh, there's, it's a very loose format. So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm trying to, uh, guide people, people, how, how we do that and share how we do that. You know, we go for, for the walk and we post something, we always take a picture, uh, called proof of walk. Uh, and, uh, I always, you know, try to get somebody who is bypassing by to take the picture on this picture. We always stay with a big flag, um, with, with the Bitcoin website address and, uh, and I'm now ordering another flag, the second version, which will, which will say on the top, don't own zero Bitcoin.

59:00 So whoever is taking the picture, they will get the message as well. Uh, and, um, yeah, hopefully people will get inspired to maybe check it out. It's genius. Awesome work you're doing. So thanks a lot for, for coming on and, uh, yeah, if there isn't anything else, uh, yeah, thanks again and, uh, good luck with the move to Madeira and see you in real life one of these days. One of these days. Exactly. Thanks for having me guys. Enjoy the day. On a, on a walk somewhere. Fantastic. Uh, this has been the Freedom Footprint Show. Thanks for listening.